Just how far would you interventionist and war hawks go?

[donttread]

How much meddling in the affairs of other nations, how much war, over what percentage of the planet to exert our will on others would you condone?
How long would you control other countries on puppet strings because you lack the fortitude to become responsible for our own basic needs?
How much, buying, bullying, and occupying would be enough?

[Bo-4]

How much meddling in the affairs of other nations, how much war, over what percentage of the planet to exert our will on others would you condone?
How long would you control other countries on puppet strings because you lack the fortitude to become responsible for our own basic needs?
How much, buying, bullying, and occupying would be enough?

As far as necessary to remake the entire world in our image (a shining city on a hill).

[Peter1469]

As far as necessary to remake the entire world in our image (a shining city on a hill).

What does that mean?

[Polecat]

National security is chicken little's paradigm. Corporate interests are the sole reason for foreign "policing" by our military.

[Bo-4]

What does that mean?

You're not old enough to recall Reagan's shining city on a hill Peter1469?

http://www.jewishjournal.com/images/featured/opi_greenberg_021315.jpg

[Peter1469]

You're not old enough to recall Reagan's shining city on a hill @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10)?


That was not what Reagan referred too.

[The Sage of Main Street]

With all these Chickenhawks playing tough guys opposed to Obama, it must be pointed out that President Reagan was the last one to hurt Iran. He armed, financed, and turned loose Saddam on the Iranian jihadis, setting back their plan to encircle Mecca by 35 years. He also threatened the OPEC price-gougers, which cost the theocratic megalomaniacs the money they needed to defeat Iraq and continue towards their goals.

[Bo-4]

That was not was Reagan referred too.

Of course it was.. and that vision was a shining example for GWB as he launched his awesome 2 trillion dollar war based on lies in an attempt to remake the middle east in our image.

[Bo-4]

With all these Chickenhawks playing tough guys opposed to Obama, it must be pointed out that President Reagan was the last one to hurt Iran. He armed, financed, and turned loose Saddam on the Iranian jihadis, setting back their plan to encircle Mecca by 35 years. He also threatened the OPEC price-gougers, which cost the theocratic megalomaniacs the money they needed to defeat Iraq and continue towards their goals.

My my.. ya got a way with words goombah!

[Chris]

My my.. ya got a way with words goombah!

Get a room.

[Chris]

You're not old enough to recall Reagan's shining city on a hill Peter1469?

http://www.jewishjournal.com/images/featured/opi_greenberg_021315.jpg

Why is Obama repeating that?

[Bo-4]

Get a room.

Just as soon as you, Alyosha and the dude who's name is unpronounceable get a room.

Libertarian leaning, anarchist leaning, volunteerist leaning..

IOW.. a total fucking mess (yet interesting ;-)

[donttread]

National security is chicken little's paradigm. Corporate interests are the sole reason for foreign "policing" by our military.

I smell a polecat with a correct answer!

[donttread]

As I suspected, none of the warhawks and interventionist have an answer because all they do is blindly support their parties aggressions whereever and whereever that be.
The perfect example of how dems who hated American aggression in the ME under Bush, are all for virtually the same aggression under Obama and of course vice versa. Those folks have literally proven their inability to think for themselves. Ever wonder why sheep are so easily lead?

[Peter1469]

Of course it was.. and that vision was a shining example for GWB as he launched his awesome 2 trillion dollar war based on lies in an attempt to remake the middle east in our image.

Incorrect. Reagan's concept was to set an example for others. It was not to invade and occupy. Or can you point to any Reagan occupation?

[Polecat]

Incorrect. Reagan's concept was to set an example for others. It was not to invade and occupy. Or can you point to any Reagan occupation?

Wasn't Grenada under Ronnie's watch?

[Peter1469]

Wasn't Grenada under Ronnie's watch?

No occupation. In and out. Too easy.

Next.

[PolWatch]

you can't deny that he played 'let's you & him fight' in Nicaragua....

[Peter1469]

you can't deny that he played 'let's you & him fight' in Nicaragua....

Of course. Again, no occupation and attempts to impose Jeffersonian democracy. He was an anti-Neocon.

[donttread]

so how far would you go ?

[Ransom]

How much meddling in the affairs of other nations, how much war, over what percentage of the planet to exert our will on others would you condone?
How long would you control other countries on puppet strings because you lack the fortitude to become responsible for our own basic needs?
How much, buying, bullying, and occupying would be enough?

What basic need of yours would you like someone else to have the fortitude to become responsible for?

[Ransom]

It says so much doesn't it? Imagine America's Founding Fathers with the same.... fortitude. Along with your rights......donttread.....come responsibilities to provide for your own basic needs, your own family's as well. Rather than sit there like a spoiled brat asking that someone else step up where you're unwilling to do so. Thank God that Jefferson and Adams came first.... and donttread afterwards.

What blatant cowardice and pitiful whining do you have to show us next?

[CaveDog]

Jefferson had no problem with intervening against Tripoli when commerce was threatened, even without congressional approval. We have always protected our trade interests. The issue the founders would have with today's foreign policy is the idea of nation building. They had no significant interest in changing the rest of the world.

[Reason10]

How much meddling in the affairs of other nations, how much war, over what percentage of the planet to exert our will on others would you condone?
How long would you control other countries on puppet strings because you lack the fortitude to become responsible for our own basic needs?
How much, buying, bullying, and occupying would be enough?

How much meddling in the affairs of NAZI GERMANY was enough?

[Reason10]

Of course it was.. and that vision was a shining example for GWB as he launched his awesome 2 trillion dollar war based on lies in an attempt to remake the middle east in our image.

He didn't lie. That's just plain ignorant.

Make up your mind. Either Bush 43 was as dumb as all the ass butt left wing journalists claimed, or HE WAS A TOTAL FUCKING GENIUS WHO HAPPENED TO OUTWIT EVERY SINGLE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY ON THE PLANET.

All those agencies claimed the chemical weapons were in Iraq. Tell me again how Bush put those words in his mouth.

Better yet, just STFU until you find something you actually know about.

[Ransom]

Jefferson had no problem with intervening against Tripoli when commerce was threatened, even without congressional approval. We have always protected our trade interests. The issue the founders would have with today's foreign policy is the idea of nation building. They had no significant interest in changing the rest of the world.
But he fibbed to Congress to get them to fund the Lewis and Clark Expedition, he had every interest in changing our world. The Expedition one of the most influential interventions in US history.

[Ransom]

How much meddling in the affairs of NAZI GERMANY was enough?

And look to his quote, Reason, does it not expose and reveal?

"you lack the fortitude to become responsible for our own basic needs?"

Donttread has running water. Clean air. Will far outlive his ancestors. Has great health care. A fine automobile. Is using....right f'n now....a personal device or pc using a corporate created operating system and bandwidth provider to sog his nonsense all up and down these pages......but crying about his basic needs not being fulfilled because of someone else's lack of fortitude.

I have heard caterwalling and all out bit@hing on these threads before, this is an all time whopper and winner. Socialism 101. Right from the communist bible.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Of course it was.. and that vision was a shining example for GWB as he launched his awesome 2 trillion dollar war based on lies in an attempt to remake the middle east in our image. Reagan was a lot like Gorbachev in his starry-eyed view of ideology. Gorbachev tried to return to Communist ideals and Reagan tried the same with Capitalism. Both pipe dreams turn out unworkable or tyrannical in the real world.

Reagan was a disillusioned Liberal who over-reacted to the way American Marxists tried to bully that sect. Also, he hated his father for not getting rich during the Depression in order to give him a comfortable childhood.

[The Sage of Main Street]

That's just plain ignorant.

Make up your mind. Either Bush 43 was as dumb as all the ass butt left wing journalists claimed, or HE WAS A TOTAL $#@!ING GENIUS WHO HAPPENED TO OUTWIT EVERY SINGLE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY ON THE PLANET.

Better yet, just STFU until you find something you actually know about. ^^^
A preview of things to come if the Aynal-retentive Lizardtarians ever get enough power to effectively impose this intellectual bullying on us through instituting a police state "in order to protect rugged individualists from anyone who incites mob rule."

[donttread]

What basic need of yours would you like someone else to have the fortitude to become responsible for?


We depend on oil as the life's blood of our society but need to force others to sell it to us using our dollars. That is the opposite of providing for your needs.

[Bo-4]

He didn't lie. That's just plain ignorant.

Make up your mind. Either Bush 43 was as dumb as all the ass butt left wing journalists claimed, or HE WAS A TOTAL FUCKING GENIUS WHO HAPPENED TO OUTWIT EVERY SINGLE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY ON THE PLANET.

All those agencies claimed the chemical weapons were in Iraq. Tell me again how Bush put those words in his mouth.

Better yet, just STFU until you find something you actually know about.
Reason10 You mad bro? Well this will make you madder. :cool:

http://harpers.org/blog/2008/01/935-lies-on-the-way-to-a-war/

The people who thought there were likely WMD in Iraq didn't fucking INVADE. They gave authorization to do so as a last resort, but Junior didn't even wait until the UN inspection was complete.

So we wasted two trillion, hundreds of thousands of innocent lives and created ISIS.. Yippee!

Boy Blunder and his neocon minions made that duhcision, and they started planning for it before he even became president.

911 enabled him to sell it.

[CaveDog]

But he fibbed to Congress to get them to fund the Lewis and Clark Expedition, he had every interest in changing our world. The Expedition one of the most influential interventions in US history.

Yeah, they had an interest in expanding in north America but they had no interest in getting involved in spreading their ideals in Europe and elsewhere. They had the Attitude John Quincy Adams espoused about America as in "She is the well-wisher to freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own".

[Reason10]

@Reason10 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1397) You mad bro? Well this will make you madder. :cool:

http://harpers.org/blog/2008/01/935-lies-on-the-way-to-a-war/

The people who thought there were likely WMD in Iraq didn't $#@!ing INVADE. They gave authorization to do so as a last resort, but Junior didn't even wait until the UN inspection was complete.

So we wasted two trillion, hundreds of thousands of innocent lives and created ISIS.. Yippee!

Boy Blunder and his neocon minions made that duhcision, and they started planning for it before he even became president.

911 enabled him to sell it.

WRONG.
The weapons were there. Saddam had threatened to use them on our troops.
You lose again.

[Bo-4]

WRONG.
The weapons were there. Saddam had threatened to use them on our troops.
You lose again.

Sorry Reason10, there were no WMD in Iraq.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSN-Kku_rFE&spfreload=10

[The Sage of Main Street]

But he fibbed to Congress to get them to fund the Lewis and Clark Expedition, he had every interest in changing our world. The Expedition one of the most influential interventions in US history. Americans had their goal of Manifest Destiny. The Indians, French, British, Spaniards, and Mexicans also believed in their own Manifest Destiny. The Indians, criminal fugitives from Siberia, deserved to get their Promised Land taken away under the rule of "Use it or lose it." Because of their own incompetence and interest in slaughtering all neighboring tribes, they would have kept America's natural resources from being used by the whole world.

[The Xl]

That term, wmds, in regards to Iraq, was misleading. It was heavily, heavily implied to be nuclear weapons, and the slight vagueness of the term was intentional

[Mac-7]

Americans had their goal of Manifest Destiny. The Indians, French, British, Spaniards, and Mexicans also believed in their own Manifest Destiny. The Indians, criminal fugitives from Siberia, deserved to get their Promised Land taken away under the rule of "Use it or lose it." Because of their own incompetence and interest in slaughtering all neighboring tribes, they would have kept America's natural resources from being used by the whole world.

You think the Indians are "criminal fugitives from Siberia?"

Thats nonsense.

They may not always be the Noble Savages that libs think they are but the land was uninhibited when they got here.

[Common]

National security is chicken little's paradigm. Corporate interests are the sole reason for foreign "policing" by our military.

Corporate interests rule everything we do and everything congress does

[texan]

How much meddling in the affairs of other nations, how much war, over what percentage of the planet to exert our will on others would you condone?
How long would you control other countries on puppet strings because you lack the fortitude to become responsible for our own basic needs?
How much, buying, bullying, and occupying would be enough?

Whatever it takes to protect our interests is just enough, that may vary by situation Ron Paulhead.....

[The Xl]

Corporate interests rule everything we do and everything congress does

Corporations basically run the government through proxy, and it's pretty out in the open, the openly pay for the campaign of these clowns, and not surprisingly, everything done by these asshats benefits them.

Something to think about whenever you hear all of this pro war and "terrorism" talk.

[The Xl]

Whatever it takes to protect our interests is just enough, that may vary by situation Ron Paulhead.....

I wish politicians had the balls to say that, as opposed to making some bullshit reason up for continual intervention, like "WMDs" or "terrorism"

[Bo-4]

I wish politicians had the balls to say that, as opposed to making some bullshit reason up for continual intervention, like "WMDs" or "terrorism"

Or mushroom clouds ;-)

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID15870/images/Condi_Rice_Mushroom_Cloud.jpg

[donttread]

I wish politicians had the balls to say that, as opposed to making some bullshit reason up for continual intervention, like "WMDs" or "terrorism"

"Balls to say what" We'll back whatever you choose to do blindly?"

[Mac-7]

Nature abhors a vacuum.

If we don't "meddle" someone far worse will.

[Reason10]

Yes there was.

[Ransom]

Yeah, they had an interest in expanding in north America but they had no interest in getting involved in spreading their ideals in Europe and elsewhere. They had the Attitude John Quincy Adams espoused about America as in "She is the well-wisher to freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own".

They had no interest spreading ideals into Europe at the time.....where the world's superpowers were at war with one another? Really? You don't f'n say? But then....we did have every intention of 'spreading ideals' across previously French Louisiana, Spanish Florida, and English Canada, huh? Spreading ideals across Europe a little difficult with a Navy of 4-5 ships.

On the other hand......Jefferson and our Founders blasted away at ideals on this continent. Defeated Mexico and Spain in wars. Jefferson buys Louisiana, I believe it's the next President Madison who adds Alabama and many southern states.

We're colonialists...has no one a f'n history book in their home...I'm getting upset. You people think our Founding Fathers were non-interventionists.....then you don't have the slightest f'n clue as to our history.

And how f'n sad is that when you're daring to comment on it.

[Chris]

They had no interest spreading ideals into Europe at the time.....where the world's superpowers were at war with one another? Really? You don't f'n say? But then....we did have every intention of 'spreading ideals' across previously French Louisiana, Spanish Florida, and English Canada, huh? Spreading ideals across Europe a little difficult with a Navy of 4-5 ships.

On the other hand......Jefferson and our Founders blasted away at ideals on this continent. Defeated Mexico and Spain in wars. Jefferson buys Louisiana, I believe it's the next President Madison who adds Alabama and many southern states.

We're colonialists...has no one a f'n history book in their home...I'm getting upset. You people think our Founding Fathers were non-interventionists.....then you don't have the slightest f'n clue as to our history.

And how f'n sad is that when you're daring to comment on it.


Everything seems to upset you.

You're confused about the meaning of non-interventionism as usual too.

[Ransom]

This thread start asks when were we not interventionists and indeed...we've never not been. And then may I ask how did we become the world's superpower and most powerful nation in the history of this entire planet? We've the power of Rome in one of our modern day aircraft carriers......did we accomplish this by policies of non-intervention or worse yet, cowardly isolationism?

[Ransom]

Everything seems to upset you.

You're confused about the meaning of non-interventionism as usual too.

Not that much upsets me at all Fence Sitter. But the lack of historical perspective does, I confess, bother me. The fact that so many will comment on this issue without having a clue. And can you answer the question, FS. Did we reach most powerful nation in the history of this planet status by being non-interventionists?

[Ransom]

I wish politicians had the balls to say that, as opposed to making some bull$#@! reason up for continual intervention, like "WMDs" or "terrorism"

We need something to convince the hysterical. Most will be confident that their constituents understand when military force and intervention is necessary. Sometimes we need something....exciting...to get you Leftists up in arms. It works most of the time.

[Chris]

Not that much upsets me at all Fence Sitter. But the lack of historical perspective does, I confess, bother me. The fact that so many will comment on this issue without having a clue. And can you answer the question, FS. Did we reach most powerful nation in the history of this planet status by being non-interventionists?


CaveDog has a much better historical perspective than you, ransom, you haven't a clue since most of what you say is just made up to suit your interventionist agenda.

What's the value of being most powerful? I'd say it's too high a cost. -Yea, I know, now you're going to whine about answering a question with a question. Poor, ransom.

[The Sage of Main Street]

You think the Indians are "criminal fugitives from Siberia?"

Thats nonsense.

They may not always be the Noble Savages that libs think they are but the land was uninhibited when they got here. Nature doesn't recognize seniority rights. The March of Time caught up to the dysfunctional evolutionary failures, who had lucked out and found a hideout the evolved races who justifiably belonged there hadn't found out about yet.

The Nobility With No Ability made up the redundant term "noble savages." Nobles are guillotine-fodder parasites and this is just another example of how upper-class mind-controllers champion the underclass against the middle classes.

[Mac-7]

Nature doesn't recognize seniority rights. The March of Time caught up to the dysfunctional evolutionary failures, who had lucked out and found a hideout the evolved races who justifiably belonged there hadn't found out about yet.

The Nobility With No Ability made up the redundant term "noble savages." Nobles are guillotine-fodder parasites and this is just another example of how upper-class mind-controllers champion the underclass against the middle classes.

I'm not crying over the Indians.

But neither do I despise them for not being more advanced in 1492.

[Private Pickle]

How much meddling in the affairs of other nations, how much war, over what percentage of the planet to exert our will on others would you condone?
How long would you control other countries on puppet strings because you lack the fortitude to become responsible for our own basic needs?
How much, buying, bullying, and occupying would be enough?

We live in a global world. Isolationism and protectionism are things of the past for a reason. You end up like North Korea.

I really don't understand the idea that humans haven't been fighting over resources since our existence.

It's easy for you to point the finger while sitting on your petroleum made desk chair typing on your petroleum made computer having gotten there via petroleum where you make more money than just about everyone else on Earth. A little harder to realize you're part of the engine that makes it all go.

Enjoy your lifestyle. Plenty of people are and have paid for it.

[The Xl]

We need something to convince the hysterical. Most will be confident that their constituents understand when military force and intervention is necessary. Sometimes we need something....exciting...to get you Leftists up in arms. It works most of the time.

Save it, your one of the clowns who believes in those hysterical rationals like 'fighting for our freedoms,' 'WMDs,' 'national security', 'terrorism', and all that shit.

[donttread]

We live in a global world. Isolationism and protectionism are things of the past for a reason. You end up like North Korea.

I really don't understand the idea that humans haven't been fighting over resources since our existence.

It's easy for you to point the finger while sitting on your petroleum made desk chair typing on your petroleum made computer having gotten there via petroleum where you make more money than just about everyone else on Earth. A little harder to realize you're part of the engine that makes it all go.

Enjoy your lifestyle. Plenty of people are and have paid for it.

We are not North Korea. We haven't really tried non-interventionism. To the extent the global world is hurting us or we it, we should stay out of it. You are right I'm sitting here in a heated house using electricity for my computer, albeit hydro electricity. I alone cannot make other choices reasonably available . I do what I can, buy local, grow a garden, walk to the store and shovel snow and dig my garden by hand without power tools

[The Xl]

We live in a global world. Isolationism and protectionism are things of the past for a reason. You end up like North Korea.

I really don't understand the idea that humans haven't been fighting over resources since our existence.

It's easy for you to point the finger while sitting on your petroleum made desk chair typing on your petroleum made computer having gotten there via petroleum where you make more money than just about everyone else on Earth. A little harder to realize you're part of the engine that makes it all go.

Enjoy your lifestyle. Plenty of people are and have paid for it.

Right, because our lifestyle couldn't be had with our own resources and free trade.

I think most people would choose nationalizing our own resources before waging wars and killing people for the resources of others.

[Private Pickle]

We are not North Korea. We haven't really tried non-interventionism. To the extent the global world is hurting us or we it, we should stay out of it. You are right I'm sitting here in a heated house using electricity for my computer, albeit hydro electricity. I alone cannot make other choices reasonably available . I do what I can, buy local, grow a garden, walk to the store and shovel snow and dig my garden by hand without power tools
I know we are not NK. I said we would be like NK.

We haven't tried isolationism? Oh come on man.

And I get the whole "I recycle things" bit but I'm talking on a slightly larger scale.

Oil controls the world's economy. To be an isolationist now would mean a drastic economic crash of epic proportions. Not just here but across the globe.

[Mac-7]

We live in a global world. Isolationism and protectionism are things of the past for a reason. You end up like North Korea.

I really don't understand the idea that humans haven't been fighting over resources since our existence.

It's easy for you to point the finger while sitting on your petroleum made desk chair typing on your petroleum made computer having gotten there via petroleum where you make more money than just about everyone else on Earth. A little harder to realize you're part of the engine that makes it all go.

Enjoy your lifestyle. Plenty of people are and have paid for it.


Right, because our lifestyle couldn't be had with our own resources and free trade.

I think most people would choose nationalizing our own resources before waging wars and killing people for the resources of others.

Nationalizing?

You mean the Socialist People's Republic of Amerika?


No thanks.

[Private Pickle]

Right, because our lifestyle couldn't be had with our own resources and free trade.

I think most people would choose nationalizing our own resources before waging wars and killing people for the resources of others.

If you nationalize oil you're giving the government the key to complete control. Nope. People would die and wage wars of the gov tried.

[Chris]

Nationalizing?

You mean the Socialist People's Republic of Amerika?


No thanks.


Yes, like your desire to nationalize imports.

[The Xl]

If you nationalize oil you're giving the government the key to complete control. Nope. People would die and wage wars of the gov tried.

Your acting like these special interests aren't controlling them through proxy anyway.

If people were made clear why the wars are actually waged and laid out another choice, then perhaps your assertion would not be so

[Private Pickle]

Your acting like these special interests aren't controlling them through proxy anyway.

If people were made clear why the wars are actually waged and laid out another choice, then perhaps your assertion would not be so

Perhaps until the economic collapse and inevitable wars that follow such collapses.

[The Xl]

Nationalizing?

You mean the Socialist People's Republic of Amerika?


No thanks.

As imposed to what? Killing people for their resources? It's the better choice.

I'm not a fan of it, but if the choice is between murdering and waging war for other peoples shit, or peacefully using our own resources, the choice is clear. It's not like big oil has made all their profits by themselves now anyway, they've had a pretty big partner in crime, the US government. It would be no different than reparations to the American people, so to speak.

[The Xl]

Perhaps until the economic collapse and inevitable wars that follow such collapses.

Change the unstable debt based currency while we're at it then, too. No collapse necessary.

This whole country and everything it engages in is an immoral, unstable, ticking time bomb clusterfuck. Continuing the status quo isn't the answer anymore.

[Private Pickle]

Change the unstable debt based currency while we're at it then, too. No collapse necessary.

This whole country and everything it engages in is an immoral, unstable, ticking time bomb clusterfuck. Continuing the status quo isn't the answer anymore.

This country specifically?

How would you change debt based currency with the amount of debt out there? How would large corporations be able to operate without credit?

[The Xl]

This country specifically?

How would you change debt based currency with the amount of debt out there? How would large corporations be able to operate without credit?

Default on the fraudulent debt, replace every debt based note a person/corporation has with a government issued note that wasn't created as debt, banks can loan credit but only money they actually have.

Simple and stable enough

[Private Pickle]

As imposed to what? Killing people for their resources? It's the better choice.

I'm not a fan of it, but if the choice is between murdering and waging war for other peoples shit, or peacefully using our own resources, the choice is clear. It's not like big oil has made all their profits by themselves now anyway, they've had a pretty big partner in crime, the US government. It would be no different than reparations to the American people, so to speak.

Like I've said before...there are local resources and there are global resources. Oil is a global resource and as such the world as a whole cannot afford gap nations control over vast quantities of oil. Even OPEC agrees with that.

The choice isn't as clear as you seem to think. There is a lot at stake with regards to Americans, the lifestyle we enjoy and the rest of the world because as the U.S. economy goes down so too does the world's.

[Private Pickle]

Default on the fraudulent debt, replace every debt based note a person/corporation has with a government issued note that wasn't created as debt, banks can loan credit but only money they actually have.

Simple and stable enough

So nationalize the credit system? Pass.

[The Xl]

Like I've said before...there are local resources and there are global resources. Oil is a global resource and as such the world as a whole cannot afford gap nations control over vast quantities of oil. Even OPEC agrees with that.

The choice isn't as clear as you seem to think. There is a lot at stake with regards to Americans, the lifestyle we enjoy and the rest of the world because as the U.S. economy goes down so too does the world's.

Between free trade and our own resources, we could continue our lifestyle. If we changed our unstable economics, we wouldn't have a collapse.

The only reason it isn't as simple as a lay it out is because our rulers won't don't anything of the sort, because they're puppets for corporate suits, ones who would be greatly damaged by these actions.

[The Xl]

So nationalize the credit system? Pass.

As opposed to letting private corporations create and counterfeit money out of thin air as they do now. Haha.

Makes no sense.

[Private Pickle]

Between free trade and our own resources, we could continue our lifestyle. If we changed our unstable economics, we wouldn't have a collapse.

The only reason it isn't as simple as a lay it out is because our rulers won't don't anything of the sort, because they're puppets for corporate suits, ones who would be greatly damaged by these actions.

We import over half of our oil. While we have seen a boom in shale oil production it is much more expensive than typical oil wells. That's why SA is producing oil at a rate that has dropped our prices by 50%. In essence we would screw over the entire world's economy along with our own if we isolate.

What are corporations to you because to me they are made up of working people there to provide a product or service at a profit. You damage them you damage the people they work for and the nation they reside in.

[Private Pickle]

As opposed to letting private corporations create and counterfeit money out of thin air as they do now. Haha.

Makes no sense.

I think you mean the Fed which is nationalized banking.

[Private Pickle]

Boarding a plane. Talk to you later.

[The Xl]

We import over half of our oil. While we have seen a boom in shale oil production it is much more expensive than typical oil wells. That's why SA is producing oil at a rate that has dropped our prices by 50%. In essence we would screw over the entire world's economy along with our own if we isolate.

What are corporations to you because to me they are made up of working people there to provide a product or service at a profit. You damage them you damage the people they work for and the nation they reside in.

We have untapped oil reserves in the country, and nothing is stopping us from freely trading with nations.

I have no problem with corporations. I do have a problem with the subsidization, and a bigger problem with war and murder.

[The Xl]

I think you mean the Fed which is nationalized banking.

I think Congress should issue the money and its quantity, targeting a stable rate that doesn't fluctuate wildly to prevent inflation or deflation. As opposed to private banks issuing money out of debt, which causes instability, lets them profit over essentially counterfeit money, allows them to choose the winners and losers in this nation, allows them to manipulate the market, lets them systematically cause depressions and recessions, etc.

[The Xl]

Boarding a plane. Talk to you later.

Sure.

[Private Pickle]

I think Congress should issue the money and its quantity, targeting a stable rate that doesn't fluctuate wildly to prevent inflation or deflation. As opposed to private banks issuing money out of debt, which causes instability, lets them profit over essentially counterfeit money, allows them to choose the winners and losers in this nation, allows them to manipulate the market, lets them systematically cause depressions and recessions, etc.

The Fed issues the money to cover the debt their and commercial banks make. They promote the lending by keeping the cost of the $ down by making more. This isn't just for the U.S. this is for investors around the world. Where the real money is...

[Mac-7]

Yes, like your desire to nationalize imports.

Don't be silly.

I don't want the US government own all the imports.

[Chris]

Don't be silly.

I don't want the US government own all the imports.

Just manage and control.

[The Xl]

The Fed issues the money to cover the debt their and commercial banks make. They promote the lending by keeping the cost of the $ down by making more. This isn't just for the U.S. this is for investors around the world. Where the real money is...

All of that is needed because of the.fraudulent and somewhat complex nature of the system. And other countries have the same system, yes

[Private Pickle]

All of that is needed because of the.fraudulent and somewhat complex nature of the system. And other countries have the same system, yes

It is what got us here...involving more government into that system vs. removing it is the wrong call.

[The Xl]

It is what got us here...involving more government into that system vs. removing it is the wrong call.

No, ingenuity and progression of technology got us here. A system reliant on everyone being in debt has held us back from even greater heights, if anything

[CaveDog]

They had no interest spreading ideals into Europe at the time.....where the world's superpowers were at war with one another? Really? You don't f'n say? But then....we did have every intention of 'spreading ideals' across previously French Louisiana, Spanish Florida, and English Canada, huh? Spreading ideals across Europe a little difficult with a Navy of 4-5 ships.

On the other hand......Jefferson and our Founders blasted away at ideals on this continent. Defeated Mexico and Spain in wars. Jefferson buys Louisiana, I believe it's the next President Madison who adds Alabama and many southern states.

We're colonialists...has no one a f'n history book in their home...I'm getting upset. You people think our Founding Fathers were non-interventionists.....then you don't have the slightest f'n clue as to our history.

And how f'n sad is that when you're daring to comment on it.

What are you talking about??? The Mexican-American war didn't take place until 1848. The Spanish-American war until 1898. Neither had anything to do with the founders. They did capture Montreal and attack Quebec during the revolution but they were fighting the British army in a lot of places at the time. A lot of that was strategic trying to deny the British access to the St. Lawrence river. Regardless, they weren't interventions, they were wars between the U.S. and other entities, not getting involved in other people's wars (which is what intervention is). They weren't sending troops to France to support the French revolution. That would have been intervention but they had no interest in doing that.

The United States did not become interventionist until the first and second world war. All the other things you're mentioning are expansionism, not interventionism. The founders and subsequent generations were expansionist for some very good reasons having little to do with ideology.

[Peter1469]

What are you talking about??? The Mexican-American war didn't take place until 1848. The Spanish-American war until 1898. Neither had anything to do with the founders. They did capture Montreal and attack Quebec during the revolution but they were fighting the British army in a lot of places at the time. A lot of that was strategic trying to deny the British access to the St. Lawrence river. Regardless, they weren't interventions, they were wars between the U.S. and other entities, not getting involved in other people's wars (which is what intervention is). They weren't sending troops to France to support the French revolution. That would have been intervention but they had no interest in doing that.

The United States did not become interventionist until the first and second world war. All the other things you're mentioning are expansionism, not interventionism. The founders and subsequent generations were expansionist for some very good reasons having little to do with ideology.

Ransom talks a lot of shit, states that he is right, and providing lessons, and declares that he must be right because few challenge him. In reality, people are avoiding the crazy man who can't back up his claims.

[Ransom]

What are you talking about???

US history, a subject that few here know anything about.


The Mexican-American war didn't take place until 1848. The Spanish-American war until 1898. Neither had anything to do with the founders. They did capture Montreal and attack Quebec during the revolution but they were fighting the British army in a lot of places at the time. A lot of that was strategic trying to deny the British access to the St. Lawrence river. Regardless, they weren't interventions, they were wars between the U.S. and other entities, not getting involved in other people's wars (which is what intervention is). They weren't sending troops to France to support the French revolution. That would have been intervention but they had no interest in doing that.

The United States did not become interventionist until the first and second world war. All the other things you're mentioning are expansionism, not interventionism. The founders and subsequent generations were expansionist for some very good reasons having little to do with ideology.

Want to ask the American Indian if any of their Tribes agree? Want to ask the Confederacy here on our own lands? What are they teaching in our schools today?

[Ransom]

Ransom talks a lot of $#@!, states that he is right, and providing lessons, and declares that he must be right because few challenge him. In reality, people are avoiding the crazy man who can't back up his claims.

Name calling common when Pete is angry. I've burned many of his latest guesses down with ease....he's pissed. Moving on.

[Common Sense]

Ransom talks a lot of shit, states that he is right, and providing lessons, and declares that he must be right because few challenge him. In reality, people are avoiding the crazy man who can't back up his claims.

It's sort of the same reason few people engage the homeless dude talking about how the government put a microchip in his brain.

[Ransom]

We didn't intervene in the Med when indemnities and ransoms were demanded? We didn't intervene in Southern States' Confederacy? We didn't intervene in the Spanish American war, World War 2 according to Cavedog the first time American troops are in the Philippines?

We weren't intervening in Mexico City?

And I cannot sit still while our American opening of the West is called expansion, there were native tribes and other Euro interests already established. We then intervened. Read more, talk less.

[Ransom]

It's sort of the same reason few people engage the homeless dude talking about how the government put a microchip in his brain.

The difference, the homeless dude isn't more well read and informed as they are. Most of you guesswork experts and rocket scientists avoid me because your having your arguments openly stewed up....in public...thus you're made to look the fools.

Some still trying to recover from statements such as "our national debt is decreasing" or the now infamous "chaos in the Middle East makes the West safer" bullsh!t.

Avoiding me intelligent if you're in here :poopfan:ing. Your faces remain a lot cleaner.

[Common Sense]

Like I was saying...

[The Sage of Main Street]

Ransom talks a lot of $#@!, states that he is right, and providing lessons, and declares that he must be right because few challenge him. In reality, people are avoiding the crazy man who can't back up his claims. In 1817, President Monroe ordered Andrew Jackson to take the rest of Florida and also Cuba from Spain. But Jackson won so quickly in Florida that Monroe had to cancel the Cuba expedition in order to have time for world and national opinion to digest the conquest of Florida. Also, the 1% were too cheap to finance a Navy and forever blocked our Manifest Destiny to annex the whole Caribbean.

[Mac-7]

In 1817, President Monroe ordered Andrew Jackson to take the rest of Florida and also Cuba from Spain. But Jackson won so quickly in Florida that Monroe had to cancel the Cuba expedition in order to have time for world and national opinion to digest the conquest of Florida.

Also, the 1% were too cheap to finance a Navy and forever blocked our Manifest Destiny to annex the whole Caribbean.

Probably good for them but less good for America.

[Chris]

It's sort of the same reason few people engage the homeless dude talking about how the government put a microchip in his brain.

Are you implying ransom is homeless or has a microchip? Or both?

[Ransom]

Are you implying ransom is homeless or has a microchip? Or both?

Own my home. And on this forum, I shear my own sheep.

Including those who baaa from the fence.

[Chris]

The difference, the homeless dude isn't more well read and informed as they are. Most of you guesswork experts and rocket scientists avoid me because your having your arguments openly stewed up....in public...thus you're made to look the fools.

Some still trying to recover from statements such as "our national debt is decreasing" or the now infamous "chaos in the Middle East makes the West safer" bullsh!t.

Avoiding me intelligent if you're in here :poopfan:ing. Your faces remain a lot cleaner.



^^Another one of ransom's teaching moments.


Just remember, those who can, do, those who can't, teach.

[Ransom]

Like I was saying...

You're welcome for teaching you something today. Stop by tomorrow too.

[Chris]

Own my home. And on this forum, I shear my own sheep.

Including those who baaa from the fence.


Ah, so how's the microchip? Is that what causes you to make things up and lie?

[Ransom]

^^Another one of ransom's teaching moments.


Just remember, those who can, do, those who can't, teach.

I showed the abuser of facts that the national debt was indeed increasing. I think we've all seen what a load of bull dung the makes the west safer comment was.

[Ransom]

Ah, so how's the microchip? Is that what causes you to make things up and lie?
What do you do while someone is painting the fence?

[Common Sense]

Are you implying ransom is homeless or has a microchip? Or both?

I'm implying he is delusional and that people here tend to treat him that way.

[Common Sense]

You're welcome for teaching you something today. Stop by tomorrow too.

The entire time I've read your posts here, you've taught no one anything.

You have claimed to do so, but it has yet to happen.

***throws a quarter into his cup***

[Chris]

I'm implying he is delusional and that people here tend to treat him that way.

But is he delusional because of a microchip in his head, or just born that way?

[Chris]

I showed the abuser of facts that the national debt was indeed increasing. I think we've all seen what a load of bull dung the makes the west safer comment was.

Cavedog showed you were wrong in your history. No one said anything about the debt. You are delusional.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Probably good for them but less good for America. Despite Scarface Tony Montana and Firestarter Teddy Cruz, the terror of 3-year-olds, the Cubans in America have made a net positive contribution.

[Mac-7]

Despite Scarface Tony Montana and Firestarter Teddy Cruz, the terror of 3-year-olds, the Cubans in America have made a net positive contribution.

If all illegal aliens looked like Eva Mendez that would still have to (reluctantly) say the same thing.

But most are just poor uneducated peasants, petty criminals or worse.

One attractive female that neither of us will ever have sex with is not enough to make up for the others.