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View Full Version : Also not a race thread - 12 year old "Slender Man" stabbers to be tried as adults



Green Arrow
03-22-2015, 03:36 PM
Trying the 12-year-old “Slender Man” stabbers as adults is as illogical and barbaric as they are. (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/03/slender_man_defendants_trying_12_year_olds_as_adul ts_is_illogical_and_barbaric.html)


Last week Waukesha County Circuit Judge Michael Bohren ruled that two Wisconsin teenagers will have to stand trial as adults for attempted homicide. The two girls—both 12 at the time—stabbed a 12-year-old classmate 19 times last year. They said they did so to mollify a cult fan fiction character called Slender Man, who is about as creepy an imaginary figure as there can be. Attorneys for the two girls were hoping to have the charges reduced so they could be tried in juvenile court. But Judge Bohren found probable cause for prosecutors to bring first-degree attempted homicide charges, which, under Wisconsin law, must be tried in adult court. The girls will have another chance to seek to be tried as juveniles later this spring.

The girls, now 12 and 13, were arrested on May 31, 2014, after allegedly elaborately planning the murder of their friend, Payton Leutner. (Slate isn’t naming the defendants, who may still be moved to juvenile court, where their names would not be public.) The girls admitted stabbing Leutner repeatedly, piercing her liver, pancreas, and stomach, and almost severing an artery to her heart, then leaving her to die in the woods. Leutner managed to crawl to a nearby road, where a cyclist found her. She was rushed to the hospital and survived. Police captured the two perpetrators a few hours later as they were attempting to walk to Wisconsin's Nicolet National Forest, where they believed Slender Man lived in his mansion, so they could join him there.

Now I confess here that I am not as up on my Slender Man as I should be, and also that the scariest thing I thought about as a 12-year-old was probably Chachi. But the conversation around the Slender Man events of last year raised important questions about preteens, violence, the Internet, and the lines between reality and imagination. This terrific piece by Abigail Jones from last summer argues that we have an outsize fascination with young murderesses precisely because they are so statistically rare. Jones also argues that unlike adults, young people are more easily rehabilitated and treated, and—if viewed by the justice system as though they are fixable—apt to go on to lead relatively normal lives.

I agree with the point of the article. I think it's absurd to try these girls as adults and basically put them in prison for the rest of their lives. It's barbaric and illogical to do this, particularly in a civilized country.

Candace Camp
03-22-2015, 04:17 PM
the vicious little harpies should be flayed alive. I think evil in the young is worse because at least old people kill out of anger and frustration.

Candace Camp
03-22-2015, 04:20 PM
i bet that photo isn't them.

The Xl
03-22-2015, 04:24 PM
Save the sympathy for the kid stabbed 19 times. A 12 year old is old enough to know not to stab someone.

What a tough girl to not die from that. Those kids rotting in prison for the rest of their lives won't even begin to touch the pain and misery that kid felt during that barbaric act.

Green Arrow
03-22-2015, 04:26 PM
Save the sympathy for the kid stabbed 19 times. A 12 year old is old enough to know not to stab someone.

What a tough girl to not die from that. Those kids rotting in prison for the rest of their lives won't even begin to touch the pain and misery that kid felt during that barbaric act.

I'm not sympathetic to the girls. I'm worried about our justice system that will try these two girls as adults when they could be easily rehabilitated.

The Xl
03-22-2015, 04:28 PM
I'm not sympathetic to the girls. I'm worried about our justice system that will try these two girls as adults when they could be easily rehabilitated.

Rehabilitated? Maybe. Easily? Unlikely conjecture.

It's not just about rehabilitation, justice and revenge are two other completely rational functions of imprisonment specifically, punishment generally.

Green Arrow
03-22-2015, 04:30 PM
Rehabilitated? Maybe. Easily? Unlikely conjecture.

The article sites proof that kids are more easily rehabilitated than adults.


It's not just about rehabilitation, justice and revenge are two other completely rational functions of imprisonment specifically, punishment generally.

Revenge should never be a function of our justice system, "rational" or otherwise. It stops being justice at that point.

The Xl
03-22-2015, 04:35 PM
The article sites proof that kids are more easily rehabilitated than adults.



Revenge should never be a function of our justice system, "rational" or otherwise. It stops being justice at that point.

More easily rehabilitated does not equal easily.

Injustice is allowing someone who committed unspeakable barbaric acts off scot free.

Crepitus
03-22-2015, 04:54 PM
Both of them are obviously insane. I don't think either is competent to stand trial.

On a different note, the slender man wiki is wrong. He haunted the empty nursing home down by the creek in the late 70s.

Hal Jordan
03-22-2015, 05:10 PM
Both of them are obviously insane. I don't think either is competent to stand trial.

On a different note, the slender man wiki is wrong. He haunted the empty nursing home down by the creek in the late 70s.

Slender man is a creation of the internet in 2009.

Crepitus
03-22-2015, 05:12 PM
Slender man is a creation of the internet in 2009.
No he ain't. He was haunting a nursing home by cowskin creek on the outskirts of Wichita Kansas in the late 70s. To sneak down there at night and try to spot him. Never did but we scared the pants off ourselves more than once.

Hal Jordan
03-22-2015, 05:29 PM
No he ain't. He was haunting a nursing home by cowskin creek on the outskirts of Wichita Kansas in the late 70s. To sneak down there at night and try to spot him. Never did but we scared the pants off ourselves more than once.

Funny, I've studied the supernatural things of Kansas a fair amount (though I will say that I focused more on the Spooklight Triangle, since that tends to be where the majority is located), and I have never heard or read of any mention of this. Is there any evidence you can show me that this is the case?

iustitia
03-22-2015, 05:38 PM
Guillotine. Both of them.

Crepitus
03-22-2015, 05:56 PM
Funny, I've studied the supernatural things of Kansas a fair amount (though I will say that I focused more on the Spooklight Triangle, since that tends to be where the majority is located), and I have never heard or read of any mention of this. Is there any evidence you can show me that this is the case?
Me and a bunch of neighborhood kids knew about it, that's all I can tell you. I've never been particularly interested in supernatural stuff so I've never even heard of the "spooklight triangle".

Bob
03-22-2015, 06:02 PM
Trying the 12-year-old “Slender Man” stabbers as adults is as illogical and barbaric as they are. (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/03/slender_man_defendants_trying_12_year_olds_as_adul ts_is_illogical_and_barbaric.html)



I agree with the point of the article. I think it's absurd to try these girls as adults and basically put them in prison for the rest of their lives. It's barbaric and illogical to do this, particularly in a civilized country.

Today you are having a lot of problems with Judges. What is wrong?

Bob
03-22-2015, 06:04 PM
I'm not sympathetic to the girls. I'm worried about our justice system that will try these two girls as adults when they could be easily rehabilitated.

Rehabilitate? How? What do you know about the inside of jails for kids?

Bob
03-22-2015, 06:08 PM
Slender man is a creation of the internet in 2009.

When i was working in Salt Lake City in 1956, the kids took me up to a cemetary to see if we could find Emo.

Never saw any Emo but they seemed to think it was worth gas money just to take a look.

Salt Lake city has an interesting thing you can all do.

By the State Capitol building, you can slow down and stop the car. You won't wait long for the car to start rolling. (folks, I was there in 1956 and it appears that by the building is wrong. It is not far from the building)

Believe it or not, Gravity hill as it is called is where your car appears to roll uphill.

Hal Jordan
03-22-2015, 06:16 PM
Me and a bunch of neighborhood kids knew about it, that's all I can tell you. I've never been particularly interested in supernatural stuff so I've never even heard of the "spooklight triangle".

I'm rather surprised you've never heard of it. It's called that because it contains the Hornet Spooklight, which has national recognition. The army actually studied it at one point. The corners of the triangle are in Miami, Oklahoma, Joplin, Missouri, and Columbus, Kansas (two of those places I have lived in). People come from all over the country to try to see the spooklight. When I worked at Joplin Petro Truck Stop, I was pretty popular because I had maps printed out to make it easy for those looking for it.

Cthulhu
03-23-2015, 03:33 AM
I'm not sympathetic to the girls. I'm worried about our justice system that will try these two girls as adults when they could be easily rehabilitated.
Nothing easy about fixing bad parenting. Or a lack of it altogether. But 19 times?

Put me on the firing squad man, I'll make sure it is loaded to put animals like this down.

Sent from my evil kitten eating cell phone.

Cthulhu
03-23-2015, 03:36 AM
Guillotine. Both of them.
Granted I share your sentiments. And I already said I'd carry it out if a death sentence were to pass.

But the fact remains that they didn't kill the girl - not for lack of trying. But I think a life time of servitude with proceeds going to the victim would be appropriate.

Killing them is still a perfectly fine alternative though.

Sent from my evil kitten eating cell phone.

Reason10
03-23-2015, 07:55 AM
I agree with the point of the article. I think it's absurd to try these girls as adults and basically put them in prison for the rest of their lives.


Let's see. From the article:
The girls admitted stabbing Leutner repeatedly, piercing her liver, pancreas, and stomach, and almost severing an artery to her heart, then leaving her to die in the woods.

And you ACTUALLY think these animals should one day breathe free air? How will you feel when they get out of prison and actually KILL someone? Explain WHY that someone had to DIE just because you feel sorry for a couple of monsters.

Those animals should ROT in prison. PERIOD.

Prison isn't just for punishment. It's designed to PROTECT THE PUBLIC from animals like this.

Reason10
03-23-2015, 07:57 AM
I'm not sympathetic to the girls. I'm worried about our justice system that will try these two girls as adults when they could be easily rehabilitated.

Rehabilitated? Are you on drugs?

Would you trust YOUR children with these animals after an alleged "rehabilitation?"

Nobody comes back from something so gruesome. Those defendants are monsters and they have to either be put in a cage forever or put down.

Reason10
03-23-2015, 07:59 AM
Revenge should never be a function of our justice system, "rational" or otherwise. It stops being justice at that point.

Wait until some animal of any age stabs YOUR 12 year old that many times. See how you feel about "revenge."

Cigar
03-23-2015, 08:00 AM
:grin:

Reason10
03-23-2015, 08:02 AM
Nothing easy about fixing bad parenting. Or a lack of it altogether. But 19 times?

Put me on the firing squad man, I'll make sure it is loaded to put animals like this down.

What you're saying is very harsh. But it's the right thing to do. These animals will KILL if allowed out of the cage. There's no coming back from something so horrible.

There's NO WAY they should EVER be allowed out of the cage. A firing squad would be just punishment for this horrible act.

donttread
03-23-2015, 08:03 AM
Trying the 12-year-old “Slender Man” stabbers as adults is as illogical and barbaric as they are. (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/03/slender_man_defendants_trying_12_year_olds_as_adul ts_is_illogical_and_barbaric.html)



I agree with the point of the article. I think it's absurd to try these girls as adults and basically put them in prison for the rest of their lives. It's barbaric and illogical to do this, particularly in a civilized country.

And just think 4 years from now an 18 year old boyfriend could be jailed for sleeping with a 16 year old "child" . Hypocrisy . On the other hand do you want these gals free and roaming your neighborhood in 3 or 4 years? And what about the victim?

Cthulhu
03-23-2015, 02:10 PM
What you're saying is very harsh. But it's the right thing to do. These animals will KILL if allowed out of the cage. There's no coming back from something so horrible.

There's NO WAY they should EVER be allowed out of the cage. A firing squad would be just punishment for this horrible act.
Well, call me weird. But I think being stabbed 19 times and being left for dead is pretty harsh too.

Sent from my evil kitten eating cell phone.

Redrose
03-23-2015, 02:23 PM
I'm not sympathetic to the girls. I'm worried about our justice system that will try these two girls as adults when they could be easily rehabilitated.

Rehabilitated? You are sure of that I suppose. Let's see. If they are tried as juvies, they would be released at age 21, about 9 years from now. You could easily have an 8 year old child, who could easily run into these "easily rehabilitated" girls.

Stabbing a classmate 19 times shows a level of barbaric cruelty, that is hard to fathom. It takes time and determination and a depraved mentality to keep doing that. Stabbing another human once would freak me out, even in self-defense. Stabbing is personal, up close, not like shooting, which allows you to keep a distance from your victim. They may have a future joining ISIS.

If those two are capable of rehabilitation, I would be very surprised.

The Xl
03-23-2015, 02:27 PM
Death is probably harsh, especially considering the girl lived, but life without parole wouldn't bother me a bit.

The Xl
03-23-2015, 02:29 PM
Rehabilitated? You are sure of that I suppose. Let's see. If they are tried as juvies, they would be released at age 21, about 9 years from now. You could easily have an 8 year old child, who could easily run into these "easily rehabilitated" girls.

Stabbing a classmate 19 times shows a level of barbaric cruelty, that is hard to fathom. It takes time and determination and a depraved mentality to keep doing that. Stabbing another human once would freak me out, even in self-defense. Stabbing is personal, up close, not like shooting, which allows you to keep a distance from your victim. They may have a future joining ISIS.

If those two are capable of rehabilitation, I would be very surprised.
I could understand and even agree with arrow if these kids were under 10, but 12 year olds are far more developed and competent than that age group.

Redrose
03-23-2015, 02:38 PM
Death is probably harsh, especially considering the girl lived, but life without parole wouldn't bother me a bit.


Death is not even a remote possibility, she lived, but a significant prison term would be fine with me. They would be housed in a juvenile section, not with the adult population.
Some crimes are so bad, they exceed what the juvenile system can handle.

If they had just shoved her in front of a car, or down a flight of stairs, laughing about it, things would be different, even if she died. Kids do stupid stuff goofing around.
They could be excused saying they didn't realize she would die. But when you stab someone 19 times, you mean to kill that person. That shows a mental awareness, a willful knowledge that the act will result in death.

The Xl
03-23-2015, 02:41 PM
Death is not even a remote possibility, she lived, but a significant prison term would be fine with me. They would be housed in a juvenile section, not with the adult population.
Some crimes are so bad, they exceed what the juvenile system can handle.

If they had just shoved her in front of a car, or down a flight of stairs, laughing about it, things would be different, even if she died. Kids do stupid stuff goofing around.
They could be excused saying they didn't realize she would die. But when you stab someone 19 times, you mean to kill that person. That shows a mental awareness, a willful knowledge that the act will result in death.

Agreed with most of this.

As you said, had they killed the kid trying to be dumb, like throwing them down the stairs, juvy is understandable. This is not.

Contrary to what people think, most peoples thoughts, temperaments, inclinations, etc, don't change much after that age

Bo-4
03-23-2015, 03:01 PM
With you totally Green Arrow 15-17 would very likely fall into an adult category for this crime.. but 12?

Ridiculous. No, that is NOT old enough to know better.

Green Arrow
03-23-2015, 03:06 PM
Death is not even a remote possibility, she lived, but a significant prison term would be fine with me. They would be housed in a juvenile section, not with the adult population.
Some crimes are so bad, they exceed what the juvenile system can handle.

If they had just shoved her in front of a car, or down a flight of stairs, laughing about it, things would be different, even if she died. Kids do stupid stuff goofing around.
They could be excused saying they didn't realize she would die. But when you stab someone 19 times, you mean to kill that person. That shows a mental awareness, a willful knowledge that the act will result in death.

Until you factor in the obvious delusiona they were under in thinking they did it for a mythological creature.

PolWatch
03-23-2015, 03:07 PM
Since 2004, Iran has executed 43 juveniles under the age of 18, according to Amnesty International.This includes two juveniles hanged on 20th April 2011. Even more recently, on 21st September 2011, 17-year-old Alireza Molla Soltani (http://www.asafeworldforwomen.org/component/content/707-mid-east/iran/iran-execution-women-children/1415-hanging-of-alireza-molla-soltani.html?Itemid=1153)was hanged in public execution.There are currently 100 juveniles on death row in Iran, according to a recent report by the newly-appointed UN Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Iran.If we can't beat 'em...we'll join 'em?

http://www.asafeworldforwomen.org/global-news/mid-east/iran/execution-of-children.html

Bo-4
03-23-2015, 03:52 PM
Since 2004, Iran has executed 43 juveniles under the age of 18, according to Amnesty International.

This includes two juveniles hanged on 20th April 2011. Even more recently, on 21st September 2011, 17-year-old Alireza Molla Soltani (http://www.asafeworldforwomen.org/component/content/707-mid-east/iran/iran-execution-women-children/1415-hanging-of-alireza-molla-soltani.html?Itemid=1153)was hanged in public execution.

There are currently 100 juveniles on death row in Iran, according to a recent report by the newly-appointed UN Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Iran.

If we can't beat 'em...we'll join 'em?

http://www.asafeworldforwomen.org/global-news/mid-east/iran/execution-of-children.html



I'll pass on "joining 'em". We're already in the horrendously bad company of largely third world nations that still allow the death penalty at all.

====

RETENTIONIST COUNTRIESCountries which retain the death penalty for ordinary crimes


AFGHANISTAN
ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA
BAHAMAS
BAHRAIN
BANGLADESH
BARBADOS
BELARUS
BELIZE
BOTSWANA
CHAD
CHINA
COMOROS
CONGO (Democratic Republic)
CUBA
DOMINICA
EGYPT
EQUATORIAL GUINEA
ETHIOPIA
GAMBIA
GUATEMALA
GUINEA
GUYANA
INDIA
INDONESIA
IRAN
IRAQ
JAMAICA
JAPAN
JORDAN
KOREA (North)
KUWAIT
LEBANON
LESOTHO
LIBYA
MALAYSIA
NIGERIA
OMAN
PAKISTAN
PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY
QATAR
SAINT KITTS & NEVIS
SAINT LUCIA
SAINT VINCENT & GRENADINES
SAUDI ARABIA
SINGAPORE
SOMALIA
SOUTH SUDAN
SUDAN
SYRIA
TAIWAN
THAILAND
TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO
UGANDA
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
VIET NAM
YEMEN
ZIMBABWE

Hal Jordan
03-23-2015, 03:54 PM
Until you factor in the obvious delusiona they were under in thinking they did it for a mythological creature.

Exactly, what they were believing about it counters the mental awareness argument.

Reason10
03-23-2015, 04:37 PM
Since 2004, Iran has executed 43 juveniles under the age of 18, according to Amnesty International.

This includes two juveniles hanged on 20th April 2011. Even more recently, on 21st September 2011, 17-year-old Alireza Molla Soltani (http://www.asafeworldforwomen.org/component/content/707-mid-east/iran/iran-execution-women-children/1415-hanging-of-alireza-molla-soltani.html?Itemid=1153)was hanged in public execution.

There are currently 100 juveniles on death row in Iran, according to a recent report by the newly-appointed UN Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Iran.

If we can't beat 'em...we'll join 'em?

http://www.asafeworldforwomen.org/global-news/mid-east/iran/execution-of-children.html



And Obama wants these animals to get nukes?

Common Sense
03-23-2015, 04:37 PM
So fucked up that any country executes children.

The Xl
03-23-2015, 04:51 PM
So fucked up that any country executes children.

Adult and child is an arbitrary deal anyway. We've executed people for the crimes that they committed at 18, and some 18 year olds aren't as developed as some 16 year olds. It's a useless talking point unless you examine specific situations.

The Xl
03-23-2015, 04:55 PM
With you totally @Green Arrow (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=868) 15-17 would very likely fall into an adult category for this crime.. but 12?

Ridiculous. No, that is NOT old enough to know better.

The notion that a 12 year old isn't old enough to know that stabbing someone is wrong is absurd. 12 year olds certainly have the capacity to understand that.

I get that you don't expect maturity from a 12 year old, and they're liable to do some dumb shit, trust me, I was 12 a lot more recently than the lot of this forum, but they're still intellectually and emotionally capable of many things, we're not talking about a 5 year old here. Hell, most 5 year olds would know better.

Common Sense
03-23-2015, 04:56 PM
Adult and child is an arbitrary deal anyway. We've executed people for the crimes that they committed at 18, and some 18 year olds aren't as developed as some 16 year olds. It's a useless talking point unless you examine specific situations.

OK, it's fucked up to execute anyone. Particularly children and the mentally disabled.

Maybe one day the US will join the rest of us in the civilized world.

The Xl
03-23-2015, 04:58 PM
OK, it's fucked up to execute anyone. Particularly children and the mentally disabled.

Maybe one day the US will join the rest of us in the civilized world.

I can live with that argument.

More so than the morality of the DP, its inaccuracy is where I have an issue.

PolWatch
03-23-2015, 05:03 PM
And Obama wants these animals to get nukes?

and yet, you want to behave just like these 'animals'?

'Those defendants are monsters and they have to either be put in a cage forever or put down.'

donttread
03-23-2015, 06:15 PM
Rehabilitated? You are sure of that I suppose. Let's see. If they are tried as juvies, they would be released at age 21, about 9 years from now. You could easily have an 8 year old child, who could easily run into these "easily rehabilitated" girls.

Stabbing a classmate 19 times shows a level of barbaric cruelty, that is hard to fathom. It takes time and determination and a depraved mentality to keep doing that. Stabbing another human once would freak me out, even in self-defense. Stabbing is personal, up close, not like shooting, which allows you to keep a distance from your victim. They may have a future joining ISIS.

If those two are capable of rehabilitation, I would be very surprised.

"Easily rehabilitated" ? I think these girls are damaged goods

Green Arrow
03-23-2015, 09:42 PM
The notion that a 12 year old isn't old enough to know that stabbing someone is wrong is absurd. 12 year olds certainly have the capacity to understand that.

I get that you don't expect maturity from a 12 year old, and they're liable to do some dumb shit, trust me, I was 12 a lot more recently than the lot of this forum, but they're still intellectually and emotionally capable of many things, we're not talking about a 5 year old here. Hell, most 5 year olds would know better.

As I said before, the whole "we stabbed her so we could go live with a faceless mythical being in his mansion in the woods" kinda dispels your entirely unscientific argument that a 12 year old has all the maturity of an adult.

Cthulhu
03-23-2015, 10:03 PM
With you totally Green Arrow 15-17 would very likely fall into an adult category for this crime.. but 12?

Ridiculous. No, that is NOT old enough to know better.
Negative Ghost Rider.

I have kids all under the age of ten, by age 2-3 they figure out hitting people is wrong.

And I'm not the father of the year either.

Sent from my evil kitten eating cell phone.

Green Arrow
03-23-2015, 10:05 PM
Negative Ghost Rider.

I have kids all under the age of ten, by age 2-3 they figure out hitting people is wrong.

And I'm not the father of the year either.

Sent from my evil kitten eating cell phone.

Do they also believe that maybe if they DID hit people, they could live forever in a mansion in the woods with a faceless mythological creature?

Cthulhu
03-23-2015, 10:06 PM
As I said before, the whole "we stabbed her so we could go live with a faceless mythical being in his mansion in the woods" kinda dispels your entirely unscientific argument that a 12 year old has all the maturity of an adult.
We kill feral animals that harm human beings. Feral humans shouldn't be exempt either.

Stabbed 19 times.

19.

Just sayin'.

Sent from my evil kitten eating cell phone.

Green Arrow
03-23-2015, 10:15 PM
We kill feral animals that harm human beings. Feral humans shouldn't be exempt either.

Stabbed 19 times.

19.

Just sayin'.

Sent from my evil kitten eating cell phone.

19 times because they thought they'd live for eternity with Slender Man in the woods.

Slender Man.

Really, it's abundantly simple. Humans aren't animals and if we're going to treat them as such, we might as well just abandon all sense of law and morality.

Cthulhu
03-23-2015, 11:37 PM
Do they also believe that maybe if they DID hit people, they could live forever in a mansion in the woods with a faceless mythological creature?
Nope, I've done that part of my job right.

But if I had Muslim neighbors whose 12 year old killed to get a magic reward in the afterlife - I think their head belongs on a pike as well.

Crazy is crazy. But dangerous is dangerous. I can tolerate crazy, but not dangerous. And being crazy does not render one immune from responsibility for your actions. Especially when you mix crazy with dangerous.

Sent from my evil kitten eating cell phone.

Cthulhu
03-23-2015, 11:42 PM
19 times because they thought they'd live for eternity with Slender Man in the woods.

Slender Man.

Really, it's abundantly simple. Humans aren't animals and if we're going to treat them as such, we might as well just abandon all sense of law and morality.

It is abundantly simple - they tried to stab someone to death. By happenstance they survived. And I know they aren't animals. It is because they aren't animals that they warrant fiercer punishment because they should know better have grown up in a civilized (?) country. Bestial behavior invites bestial corrective measures.

Doesn't make the crazy ones innocent though. Life in prison(with no chamce for parole, ever) or head on a pike - both are acceptable options to me. But it would be more efficient to kill them.

Sent from my evil kitten eating cell phone.

Green Arrow
03-23-2015, 11:44 PM
Nope, I've done that part of my job right.

But if I had Muslim neighbors whose 12 year old killed to get a magic reward in the afterlife - I think their head belongs on a pike as well.

Crazy is crazy. But dangerous is dangerous. I can tolerate crazy, but not dangerous. And being crazy does not render one immune from responsibility for your actions. Especially when you mix crazy with dangerous.

Sent from my evil kitten eating cell phone.

But they are 12. Whether the crazy belief is in Slender Man or Islam, the very fact that it is a belief and they are young makes it pretty easy to change that belief, and thus change the behavior.

Guerilla
03-23-2015, 11:56 PM
I think we should look to the parents and childrens environment to see why they are that way, then we will have a better idea on how to handle the situation.

Most every kid knows not to go around stabbing people. That's because it's natural to be taught this growing up, and if for some reason they did not learn this we need to figure out why. If it's because they are psychotic, then maybe they need the guillotine. If we find out that the parents are psychotic, or the kids had mental trauma from super shitty parents and house environment, then maybe we should try to work with the kids.

The Xl
03-24-2015, 12:20 AM
As I said before, the whole "we stabbed her so we could go live with a faceless mythical being in his mansion in the woods" kinda dispels your entirely unscientific argument that a 12 year old has all the maturity of an adult.

Where did I state that a 12 year old has the maturity if an adult? All I said is that 12 year olds have the maturity and capacity to not stab someone 19 times, which they overwhelmingly do.

And your strawman argument is even operating on a heavy logical fallacy. Adults do crazy and evil shit as well, does that prove that adults don't have adult capacity?

A fail from every angle.

Cthulhu
03-24-2015, 04:01 AM
But they are 12. Whether the crazy belief is in Slender Man or Islam, the very fact that it is a belief and they are young makes it pretty easy to change that belief, and thus change the behavior.
You really like bringing up the number 12.

So I am going to bring one up too - 19.

Mine is bigger, so I win the thread. :D

Sent from my evil kitten eating cell phone.

Hal Jordan
03-24-2015, 12:52 PM
Here's my solution. Get them help for their obvious psychological issues (investigating their parents as well, because they fucked up somewhere), and at the end of their treatment, reevaluate their danger level. It may be that they're only dangerous because of the crazy.

donttread
03-24-2015, 08:13 PM
But they are 12. Whether the crazy belief is in Slender Man or Islam, the very fact that it is a belief and they are young makes it pretty easy to change that belief, and thus change the behavior.


I'm not sure that's true. Sometimes the hard wiring cannot be fixed. You may well have budding sociopaths here. It's not like they broke into a car and stole some whiskey and cigarettes here, they carried out a premeditated murder attempt. I'm not saying life in prison , but juvie would likely cut them loose at 18 or before and that doesn't seem to be a good thing for society either.

waltky
12-22-2017, 12:06 AM
Kooky girl gets 25 years inna loony bin for Slender Man stabbing...
:rollseyes:
Slender Man stabbing: Girl gets 25 years in mental hospital
21 Dec.`17 - One of two US girls convicted of a 2014 stabbing to honour the horror character Slender Man has been sentenced to 25 years in a mental hospital.


Anissa Weier, 16, pleaded guilty to being a party to attempted second-degree homicide, but claimed she was mentally ill at the time. She and Morgan Geyser lured a classmate into a Wisconsin wooded park where Geyser stabbed her 19 times as Weier stood by. The victim survived. All three girls were 12 at the time.



https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/DC96/production/_84807465_b506b603-f70c-459d-ba52-9cdf4657bcdf.jpg
Morgan Geyser (L) and Anissa Weier (R) were 12 at the time of the crime


The victim was found crawling from woods by a cyclist near the city of Waukesha, a western suburb of Milwaukee. She had stab wounds to her arms, legs and torso. Waukesha County Circuit Judge Michael Bohren on Thursday sentenced Weier to the maximum punishment of 25 years in a psychiatric institution. The sentencing is retroactive to the date of the crime in May 2014, which means she will be committed until the age of 37.


Weier and Geyser told investigators that they believed they had to kill their victim in "dedication" to Slender Man, a fictional horror website character. Before her sentencing, Weier told the judge: "I do hold myself accountable for this and that I will do whatever I have to do to make sure I don't get any sort of delusion or whatever again. "I want everybody involved to know I deeply regret everything that happened that day. I know that nothing I say is going to make this right and nothing I say is going to fix what I broke."


Who is Slender Man? (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42450641)

Tahuyaman
12-22-2017, 01:39 PM
I'm not sympathetic to the girls. I'm worried about our justice system that will try these two girls as adults when they could be easily rehabilitated.

How easy could it be to rehabilitate someone who is capable of such an act?

donttread
12-22-2017, 01:47 PM
Save the sympathy for the kid stabbed 19 times. A 12 year old is old enough to know not to stab someone.

What a tough girl to not die from that. Those kids rotting in prison for the rest of their lives won't even begin to touch the pain and misery that kid felt during that barbaric act.

Twelve is too young to be tried as an adult but the charges were too vicious for them to be relesed at 21. If this is the same case the 25 years in MH might have been the best possible conpromise.

Safety
12-22-2017, 01:54 PM
Twelve is too young to be tried as an adult but the charges were too vicious for them to be relesed at 21. If this is the same case the 25 years in MH might have been the best possible conpromise.

We just had a thread a while ago about Roy Moore and young girls, so I don't see how the argument for 12 years old to be considered mature enough to consent and then 12 years old to be considered too young to be tried as an adult.

Kalkin
12-22-2017, 03:58 PM
Old enough to commit murder, old enough to pay the price, I say.

Tahuyaman
12-22-2017, 06:08 PM
We just had a thread a while ago about Roy Moore and young girls, so I don't see how the argument for 12 years old to be considered mature enough to consent and then 12 years old to be considered too young to be tried as an adult.


There's a concept called erring on the side of caution.

Tahuyaman
12-22-2017, 06:11 PM
Old enough to commit murder, old enough to pay the price, I say.

Theres a big difference between being held accountable for a vicious criminal act and determining when a girl has the maturity to concent to having sex.

I knew someone would try to make that dumb leap. I suspected who would do it too.

resister
12-22-2017, 06:17 PM
Theres a big difference between being held accountable for a vicious criminal act and determining when a girl has the maturity to concent to having sex.

I knew someone would try to make that dumb leap. I suspected who would do it too.
I am just surprised the race card was not tossed out.

Tahuyaman
12-22-2017, 07:03 PM
I am just surprised the race card was not tossed out.

Who says that won't hapoen?

donttread
12-23-2017, 06:11 AM
We just had a thread a while ago about Roy Moore and young girls, so I don't see how the argument for 12 years old to be considered mature enough to consent and then 12 years old to be considered too young to be tried as an adult.


Well neither do I and I never made that argument. Sixteen maybe, given modern sex education , etc. Romeo and Juliet age difference clauses so a 17 year old doesn't get labeled for having consensual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend but it remains illegal for his 29 year old brother to seduce her. I may have said that we are supposed to live in a country that believes guilt must be established beyond a reasonable doubt.
I resent the implication that I support 12 year olds consulting to sex with adults as I have never said such a ridiculous thing.

Safety
12-23-2017, 10:36 AM
Well neither do I and I never made that argument. Sixteen maybe, given modern sex education , etc. Romeo and Juliet age difference clauses so a 17 year old doesn't get labeled for having consensual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend but it remains illegal for his 29 year old brother to seduce her. I may have said that we are supposed to live in a country that believes guilt must be established beyond a reasonable doubt.
I resent the implication that I support 12 year olds consulting to sex with adults as I have never said such a ridiculous thing.

It was an implication that I didn't make towards you, but whomever advocated for 12 year olds being able to make mature decisions.

DGUtley
12-23-2017, 10:39 AM
In my opinion, a 12 year old is too young to be tried as an adult. We have juvenile courts for a reason. These two young girls are obviously disturbed rather than criminally evil. The one got 25 years in the hospital. I don't know what that means in terms of actual years but it'll be a long time, I'm sure.

Tahuyaman
12-23-2017, 11:24 AM
In my opinion, a 12 year old is too young to be tried as an adult. We have juvenile courts for a reason. These two young girls are obviously disturbed rather than criminally evil. The one got 25 years in the hospital. I don't know what that means in terms of actual years but it'll be a long time, I'm sure.
I think you need to look at the crime on a case by case basis. We aren't talking about a kid who burglarizes a home or snatches an old lady's purse. Some youthful offenders can commit an act which is so violent, vicious and depraved that they require special treatment.

The Xl
12-23-2017, 12:04 PM
Someone who committed a crime like that and then is locked up in a psychiatric ward for a quarter of a century isn't going to come out and not be a danger to the general public.