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RollingWave
07-03-2012, 03:16 AM
to balance out the rather numerous mid east threads here ;)

1. Japan politics recieved a bombshell yesterday when Ichiro Ozawa left the ruling Democratic Party with around 30-40 parlimenary members, which would be close to 1/3 of the entire Ruling party's seats and around 1/6 of the total seats. Ozawa has been a highly controversial figuer his entire political career often known as "the destroyer of parties" and it seems like he's up to the same act again... the big controversial debate was Japan wanting to raise it's sales tax from 5 to 10% in an effort to reduce their insane public debt level.

2. Speaking of Japan, it had shut down almost all it's nuclear reactor over the last few months as a result of the Tsuanami Crisis last year, however as summer rolls in it's becomming impossible to go without what's about 30% of their entire power production so now several are being turned back on again.


3. It's odd that no one's meantioned it here that last week China's latest manned flight into space sets several records, including the first Chinese female Astronaught, and the first time they were able to dock on their own space station, a huge step foward for them, and certainly puts them much closer to the US in terms of aero tech.

Another major event was that the Chinese submarine set a new wolrd record for the deepest manned dive in the same week.

4. In more local news in Taiwan, a cabinet member of the ruling party was arrested and has admitted to corruption charges. obviously a pretty big blow to the ruling party in many ways , since the man arrested was their most capable younger generation politician in Southern Taiwan, where they have historically struggled in, the charge which he confessed to is accepting bribes of around 2 million USD to help a private contractor get a deal with a (mostly public) company for a rather lucrative deal. after said contract expired he asked the contractor for almost 3 million USD to extend the contract which the contractor refused... and then revealed the tapped message of their conversation to the press... obviously the press and opposition are having a field day here.

On the other hand, it's good to see that a established politician from the ruling party can be taken down so quickly . the news was only revealed last week and he's already in jail and custody and looking at at least 10 years behind bar and a massive fine. so there's at least the merits of this being a pretty good boost to the credibiltiy of the judiciary branch.


In somewhat related to US news, the US ambassador to Taiwan (not actually called ambassodor due to Taiwan's tricky international situation, but called the director of the American Institue in Taiawn ) William A. Stanton is about to end his term, he says he plans to simply retire and remain in Taiwan as a professor or something like that.

MMC
07-03-2012, 05:02 AM
Thanks for starting something up on the East RW.....Btw, check out the Science Room I believe I put up a thread on the First Chinese Woman In Space. The Chinese and their talks of setting up a lab in this space station.

I caught some of the News on the Japan's Nuclear reactors being turned back on yesterday. Course I knew about Stanton.

If Romneys wins the Presidency do you think he will make Hunstman as SOS?

Conley
07-03-2012, 01:03 PM
The Japanese debt situation is something I don't fully understand. From what I've read and this is in very basic terms, their debt isn't that bad because it's debt owed to the Japanese people, not at all comparable to say, the debt in Greece where it's owed outside of the country. So if Japan needs to cut it's debt it could easily do so by cutting back on entitlements along with the increased sales tax. Is that about right? Also, since all the debt is in yen they have a much greater degree of control as well.

"Japan's debt is almost entirely denominated in yen, which Japanese authorities can create at will, even at the risk of future inflation. This is in sharp contrast to the euro-zone debt crisis where no single nation can decide to monetize its debt."

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120702-715531.html

MMC
07-03-2012, 06:17 PM
What Submarine would that be RW? How can it compare to the Bathascale Sub?

RollingWave
07-03-2012, 10:24 PM
Japan: yes almost all of the debt is really just fancy accounting work where their own central bank / public banks "loans" to their own government, which is why it has been able to sustain a debt level to the GDP nearly twice of as high as the what's crippling PIIGS. but many economist still warn that this isn't without limits either, sooner or later invester will also lose confidence in the Yen and you'll have to massively deflate the currency which in itself is questionable since deflation is relative if the world goes on a currency deflation race then the result is basically everyone lose.

Also, the real problem for Greece isn't that the debt is owned by foreign entity either, it's that they can't dictate the amount of Euro that is printed.... the US debt to GDP ratio and private debt ratio isn't that much better than Greece but it's not really nearly as close to a total implosion.

For the submarine see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiaolong_(submersible)

IIRC, the bathyscape subs' difference with the Jiaolong is that the later can actually move around with a reasonablly degree of effectiveness once down there. where as the bathyscape essentially can only go up or down. of course, it was also made 50 years ago.

Also, the deep 7000 meter dive happened right at the same time as the astronaught flew into space, and they send communication signals to each other which was obviously pretty interesting..

As for Huntsmen, I dunno, though i'm still getting harrass...errrr I mean "introduced" by young Mormom missionaries here every once in a while (though less since I moved into a more urban area.) I even got dragged into a LDS church here a few years back... those guys are everywhere heh.

MMC
07-04-2012, 03:49 AM
Yeah the LDS is all over the place now. Do you know anything much about Hunstman when he was over in China. They say he can speak like 4 or 5 dialects. How do you think the Chinese view him?

Would you happen to have a pic of the Chinese Sub RW? Didn't have one in your link.

I heard Branson is working on a Sub that will kinda look like a plane. Which he is saying will be able to manuever around down there.

So whats the trading like in the East? Meaning are they conducting buisness with each other. Say like Japan and China. What about S Korea? Isn't their economy growing?

MMC
07-04-2012, 07:04 AM
Was this the Thread you were looking for Trinnity? :wink:

RollingWave
07-04-2012, 11:26 AM
Yeah the LDS is all over the place now. Do you know anything much about Hunstman when he was over in China. They say he can speak like 4 or 5 dialects. How do you think the Chinese view him?

Would you happen to have a pic of the Chinese Sub RW? Didn't have one in your link.

I heard Branson is working on a Sub that will kinda look like a plane. Which he is saying will be able to manuever around down there.

So whats the trading like in the East? Meaning are they conducting buisness with each other. Say like Japan and China. What about S Korea? Isn't their economy growing?
Huntsmen: he and the current Chinese ambassador Gary Locke is generally viewed positively, especially in that they talk / live / act a lot less holier than thou compare to their Chinese counterparts (even those of much lower rankings). though there was a joke in China that Huntmens' the "Whity that can speak Chinese" and he was replaced by the "Chinese that can't speak Chinese" (Locke apparently only understands a very limited degree of cantonese and nothing of Mandarin.)

Pic of Jiaolong from XinHua net

http://news.xinhuanet.com/tech/2011-07/01/121610829_161n.jpg
and from a HK newpaper

http://www.wenweipo.com/loadImage.php?image_width=222&image_height=&image_filename=http://image.wenweipo.com/2012/07/01/ch0701c1.jpg

As for trade, of course all the east asian country trade with each other (well other than North Korea) that doesn't mean they don't usually hate each other for one reason or another though ;) but money comes first.

RollingWave
07-04-2012, 11:31 AM
on a general level, Japan's busniess has the widest reach in East Asia, though for China Taiwan and Hong Kong are in reality the biggest investors (so the irony is that the open of "foriegn investment" in chinese is in it's biggest part opening "chinese investments" ) Korea is making the most waves in recent years of course but almost eveyone knows that China's going to be huge going foward.

In the 60s Japanese cars were something of a joke in the US, only that the jokes was spinned on the US carmakes in the insuing decades... likewise even a few years back Hyundai was still the butt end of many Leno jokes but today? not so much... likewise, in a decade or two Chinese brands are likely going to be a significant part of the international car busniess (it already is in China anyway. and the sole fact that new cars are being sold most in China itself is going to lead it down that road)

MMC
07-04-2012, 04:05 PM
Quite a feat.....their Sub. Kinda looks like the bathascale. Wish ya had a pic of it from the front. Thats one of those things that they could offer me a million dollars and I wouldn't do it. One problem down there and there is no coming back.

Heya RW that would be interesting about the Chinese Car Manufacturers. Perhaps you can show us some of these Chinese Cars. Makes and Models. I am sure many have not seen them. Don't the Russians have some too? They make a lot of One Seater Cars over there, don't they?

RollingWave
07-04-2012, 09:43 PM
I confess that I don't know a ton about Chinese car brands either since they're not on sale in Taiwan, but China's been the world's biggest auto producer for the last half decade already, nowadays about 45% ish of their production are domestic brands, though almost all entirely sold within China and split by many companies, last year China produced something like 13.8 million (in 2011 the US produced about 7.8 million) automobiles but only around 800,000 of them were packed onto ships and exported(!) that means pretty much all the 13 million cars they produced were sold within China. with that sort of absurd consumption it's not hard to see why China's the rage these days for auto makers. China has quite few automakers but non of them are really big yet compare to the giant Japanese and US firms.

Amusingly enough though, some Chinese brands are now made in Eastern Europe.

here's a few local Chinese brands though they basically don't look that much different from US / Japanese cars.
(Great Wall H5)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Great_Wall_Haval_H5_2.4L_4WD_2010_(1).jpg/180px-Great_Wall_Haval_H5_2.4L_4WD_2010_(1).jpg

I think this is one of the larger brands though I'm really not sure either, a Besturn B70 (mostly based on Mazdas)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Besturn_B70_China_2012-04-09.JPG/120px-Besturn_B70_China_2012-04-09.JPG

Roewe 550
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/MG_550.JPG/180px-MG_550.JPG

Though in most of East and SE Asia, scooters sales are extremely high, usually beating the crap out of car sales by a mile, obviously it helps that an avreage priced scooter is about 1/6 the cost of the cheapest cars....

Peter1469
07-04-2012, 09:45 PM
I believe that I heard that GM is selling more cars in China than in the US. Of course built in China.

RollingWave
07-04-2012, 10:01 PM
yeah, it's sorta comming at the expense of the US car maker employee of course, though China's the largest maker today it's current production is actually lower than the US' peak production, it's just that it keeps rising (it has rose nearly 20 fold in the last 2 decade!) while the US have fell quite a bit over the last few years. though the Auto Unions have to take a considerable portion of the blame here.

Still, car sales in East Asia can be misleading, since most people's preferred way of travel is a scooter, much more useful in the usually high density populated countries around here. where parking and going through traffic with such a thing is much more convient (not to meantion cheaper).

I drive a small FORD sometimes for work, but most daily travel I use a older modle of this SYM fighter.

http://www.savesafe.com.tw/ProdImg/1189/030/02/1189030_02_main.jpg

the maintainese cost difference is already a huge incentive for most folks here to use these instead, a checkup is like 1/10 the cost (you essentially only need to change gear oils and stuff.) the only true downside is that it really sucks in snow conditions (but that's a non-issue in Taiwan obviously ;)), that and of course if it rains your not going to come out completely dry even with a rain jacket on. it is somewhat less safe ofcoruse than car, but the difference is usually within acceptable range. afterall they're usually not gonig to be going as fast as cars either and most people are far more aware / concern about their personal saftey on these things then when they drive cars.

According to current government registry figure, there are about 6 million registered passenger cars in Taiwan (about 1 car every 4 person), but 15 million registered motorcycles. (which like like nearly one for everyone over 18...)

Conley
07-04-2012, 10:07 PM
yeah, it's sorta comming at the expense of the US car maker employee of course, though China's the largest maker today it's current production is actually lower than the US' peak production, it's just that it keeps rising (it has rose nearly 20 fold in the last 2 decade!) while the US have fell quite a bit over the last few years. though the Auto Unions have to take a considerable portion of the blame here.

Still, car sales in East Asia can be misleading, since most people's preferred way of travel is a scooter, much more useful in the usually high density populated countries around here. where parking and going through traffic with such a thing is much more convient (not to meantion cheaper).

I drive a small FORD sometimes for work, but most daily travel I use a older modle of this SYM fighter.

http://www.savesafe.com.tw/ProdImg/1189/030/02/1189030_02_main.jpg

the maintainese cost difference is already a huge incentive for most folks here to use these instead, a checkup is like 1/10 the cost (you essentially only need to change gear oils and stuff.) the only true downside is that it really sucks in snow conditions (but that's a non-issue in Taiwan obviously ;)), that and of course if it rains your not going to come out completely dry even with a rain jacket on. it is somewhat less safe ofcoruse than car, but the difference is usually within acceptable range. afterall they're usually not gonig to be going as fast as cars either and most people are far more aware / concern about their personal saftey on these things then when they drive cars.

According to current government registry figure, there are about 6 million registered passenger cars in Taiwn, but 15 million registered motorcycles.

I would definitely say the biggest concern with what you posted is safety. And as a former motorcycle rider myself, acceleration can be helpful if you're already traveling at a fatal speed. Noise is a good protector too, that's a big benefit of riding those loud ass Harleys. On something like that can you really gun it to escape danger? I wouldn't think so. I'd ride that if I had a commute measured in city blocks, but anything on a street with a limit higher than 25 mph I wouldn't be comfortable. There are plenty of motorcycles you can do your own maintenance on...how long is your commute and what are the top speeds of your surrounding traffic? Maybe Taiwan has better two wheel safety than the US, here it is every man/vehicle for himself.

Peter1469
07-04-2012, 10:21 PM
That looks really cool. I want one.

RollingWave
07-04-2012, 10:26 PM
I live very close to my workplace so that's not really what the scooter is mainly used for, running around on different errands in the city is where it's helpful. the furthest I've rode it was something like 250 KM but that's obviously not the norm, for the norm in taiwan though most folks find 20-30 min rides reasonablly acceptable.


The difference between Taiwan's roads and the US is not really the safty part, it's the part that Taiwan's roads are on a general level smaller and more conjested anyway so no matter the speed limit no cars going to be blazing around. which obviously only makes motorcycles even more practical since in comparison it's ability to wiggle through traffic often makes it the faster of the two to actually get from point A to Point B.

It also helps that since a ton of motorcycle running around is a fact of life, most drivers are far more aware of them than it would be elsewhere, usually the biggest thing westerner find difficult in driving in Taiwan when they first get here is the many motorcycles.

Heavy motorcycles (like Harley etc) have actually proven to be relatively less safe in Taiwan, but that's mostly because few people use it for daily stuff, almost all of it are rich boys showing off how fast they can go and/or riding on more dangerous / scenic roads.

I've never taken my bike over 80 km/h and that's very rare, usually the upper limit speed I would ride at is about 60km with 20-40 being the norms. but the difference is that when your at a red light and say there are 8 cars in one lane, they must lineup.. where as you can basically always wiggle to the very front, that actually makes up for a surprsing amount of time as it means you really really ONLY stop AT the red light.

Conley
07-04-2012, 10:30 PM
I live very close to my workplace so that's not really what the scooter is mainly used for, running around on different errands in the city is where it's helpful. the furthest I've rode it was something like 250 KM but that's obviously not the norm, for the norm in taiwan though most folks find 20-30 min rides reasonablly acceptable.


The difference between Taiwan's roads and the US is not really the safty part, it's the part that Taiwan's roads are on a general level smaller and more conjested anyway so no matter the speed limit no cars going to be blazing around. which obviously only makes motorcycles even more practical since in comparison it's ability to wiggle through traffic often makes it the faster of the two to actually get from point A to Point B.

It also helps that since a ton of motorcycle running around is a fact of life, most drivers are far more aware of them than it would be elsewhere, usually the biggest thing westerner find difficult in driving in Taiwan when they first get here is the many motorcycles.

Heavy motorcycles (like Harley etc) have actually proven to be relatively less safe in Taiwan, but that's mostly because few people use it for daily stuff, almost all of it are rich boys showing off how fast they can go and/or riding on more dangerous / scenic roads.

I've never taken my bike over 80 km/h and that's very rare, usually the upper limit speed I would ride at is about 60km with 20-40 being the norms.

So I take it splitting lanes is legal in Taiwan? It is in California also but not everywhere in the US...Los Angeles has the stop and go traffic which means lane splitting bikes + lane changing fast cars = bad outcome.

RollingWave
07-04-2012, 10:55 PM
it is legal, though recent years a lot of roads in Taiwan have special "bike lanes" drawn on the outer lanes anyway.

One of the main development in Taiwan in recent years (I think it's not found anywhere else ) which has gone a long way into improving safty specifically on the problem you possed is that bikes can no longer make direct left turns on heavy traffic roads . what they must do is this.

http://61.57.32.155/mediafile/410/editor_model/100/pic/020202_04(1).jpg

This way they should no longer have to ever get to the inner lanes, and in reality most such roads explicitedly states that it's cars only and fines are made to bikes going in there. on the road most of the time the bikes ride on the side lane anyway and that's basically the mutal agreement of all driver / riders in Taiwan. which is also why one of the actual bigger safty conern is when cars park on the sidewalk and open their doors in haste.....

MMC
07-05-2012, 06:44 AM
Quite interesting RW.....myself I have never paid attention to what Cars the Chinese were driving. Wasn't Ford's way into China with the Cars, was thru Mazda?

No one-seater cars.....huh? Meaning Mass Produced.

Now the Scooters.....they could work if people here were forced to use them in Cities like NY or Chicago. Heya maybe thats what we need to get the Next generations to think about their safety first.

RollingWave
07-05-2012, 10:15 AM
yeah it's kinda hard to get the US off the car culture, but besides that most of the US snow quite a bit so it's not as practical either.

most of China's car are just mimics with slightly different changes to US / Japanese cars anyway, so it's not going to be dramatically different than what you see in the US. yes Ford has a huge sales in China as well. as I said about 40% is local brand sale.. which means about 60% is US / Japanese brands for the most part.

MMC
07-05-2012, 10:29 AM
So what do those cars cost? If you happen to know round abouts. Obvious much cheaper than those By GM or Ford.....right?

RollingWave
07-05-2012, 01:06 PM
I really don't know, but I would hazard a guess that it wouldn't be that much cheapre than in the US.

MMC
07-05-2012, 01:09 PM
I really don't know, but I would hazard a guess that it wouldn't be that much cheapre than in the US.

So you think along 15-16k up to 20k for Automatic 4 cylinder and 6 cyclinder vehicles. They are spending that much US Dollars?

RollingWave
07-05-2012, 01:18 PM
it is quite possible, cars in taiwan are in that range, really really cheap onces are still over 10K USD, most are like 18-20K USD and obviously we're not talking about luxury cars here. Cars' basic cost (machine, raw materials etc) doesn't change and the variable of labor cost involved is a relatively small part, which is usually made up for by the fact that most Asian country still have some tarrif on imported cars. local brands theoretically are cheaper but they usually take advantage of the artificial ceiling setup by the tarrifs and price themself just a notch below that.

Though i'll admit that I'm far from very knowledgable in this realm, Taiwan does produce quiet a bit of cars ourself (over 300k per year) but we also import a decent amount so it's really rather murky.

MMC
07-05-2012, 01:59 PM
it is quite possible, cars in taiwan are in that range, really really cheap onces are still over 10K USD, most are like 18-20K USD and obviously we're not talking about luxury cars here. Cars' basic cost (machine, raw materials etc) doesn't change and the variable of labor cost involved is a relatively small part, which is usually made up for by the fact that most Asian country still have some tarrif on imported cars. local brands theoretically are cheaper but they usually take advantage of the artificial ceiling setup by the tarrifs and price themself just a notch below that.

Though i'll admit that I'm far from very knowledgable in this realm, Taiwan does produce quiet a bit of cars ourself (over 300k per year) but we also import a decent amount so it's really rather murky.


Yeah I was noticing within the same range. I figured Taiwan would have their own too. As does Russia. I thought for sure they might be cheaper over there in China. But I guess not by much. So how would you rate the Chinese Middle Class with that of Americans? Or even Taiwan's Middle Class.

RollingWave
07-05-2012, 09:51 PM
It's difficult to say for sure, since the definition of "middle class" is in itself ambiguous, lets just say that in the US pretty much anyone with a steady job can be tenuiously described as middle class but that's much harder to say in China.

On the other hand, those workers working on assembly line / construction site etc are paid shite and some even sleep out in the open for many parts of the year (in dry places like Beijing). but they bring back home (their homes in the rural areas) TV sets and all sorts of other appliances, so where does that really puts them? There's a lot of the shades o the glided age in China right now, similarly Taiwan and otherp laces experienced very similar stuff during our own development, it's process and a rapid changing one so it's hard to say anything for sure. for Taiwan and other east Asian countries that turned out well enough though.

My father spend most of his child hood living in a farm shack with his family running a family workshop busniess, but today us second generation live not too different from similar age folks in the US. (hell my cousin live like kings. they are legimitate millionares. as their father managed to turn that family workshop into a international busniess)

MMC
07-05-2012, 11:03 PM
It's difficult to say for sure, since the definition of "middle class" is in itself ambiguous, lets just say that in the US pretty much anyone with a steady job can be tenuiously described as middle class but that's much harder to say in China.

On the other hand, those workers working on assembly line / construction site etc are paid shite and some even sleep out in the open for many parts of the year (in dry places like Beijing). but they bring back home (their homes in the rural areas) TV sets and all sorts of other appliances, so where does that really puts them? There's a lot of the shades o the glided age in China right now, similarly Taiwan and otherp laces experienced very similar stuff during our own development, it's process and a rapid changing one so it's hard to say anything for sure. for Taiwan and other east Asian countries that turned out well enough though.

My father spend most of his child hood living in a farm shack with his family running a family workshop busniess, but today us second generation live not too different from similar age folks in the US. (hell my cousin live like kings. they are legimitate millionares. as their father managed to turn that family workshop into a international busniess)

:laugh: Well, depends now RW.....I know many that work two jobs and are not considered middle class. Now even moreso in our history.

RollingWave
07-06-2012, 02:52 AM
aye, now is a much harder time in the US than before. the market is shifting too fast and most people simply don't have that wide range of skill sets to adjust like that. and it's not that realistic to ask a bunch of 40-50 year olds to completely change their skill sets in a few months. (or even a few years for that matter)

MMC
07-06-2012, 06:37 AM
aye, now is a much harder time in the US than before. the market is shifting too fast and most people simply don't have that wide range of skill sets to adjust like that. and it's not that realistic to ask a bunch of 40-50 year olds to completely change their skill sets in a few months. (or even a few years for that matter)

I agree. I was stuck into somewhat the same type of Mold after I got out of the Service. If I wouldn't have had the black mark on my record I might have been able to go into law Enforcement or Intel. Suffice to say, there is just not much in the Civilian Sector for the Skills and talent I have. Not unless I was to work in a field of Capitalism where offers are made. But not refused.

I went back to school but I didn't have time to wait around. So I ended up getting an Assocish in Gen Ed. Got a Job with Sears Carpet Cleaning, and from there. Thats where I took off. I ended up getting all the training one needed to Clean Carpets and Furniture. Which I would pick up with laying and installing carpet. I became Sears #2 hitter in Chicago. On my off time I would go to free training with other aspects of the Field. Started learning about Products. That I would go out and buy my products which helped to boost my sales. I would end getting called by Dupont Stainmaster for Warranty Work on Newly Installed Carpets in brand New Homes. Then one Day i met a small buisness owner. He was working with Pet Odor and Urine Removal.

With Sears I would get transfered to Dallas Texas bonus the whole works. Which Sears took top Hitters across the Country to go and try to save their division in Dallas. We worked about 90 days and they sold the Contract out to Paul Arpin Restoration. These guys moves the professional Athletes and Entertainers around. When I came back to Chi-town. I went to work for the Pet Odor Specialist. Worked with him for like a year.

Then went into buisness for myself. As I had been picking up other Floor maintennce work. Cleaning and Stripping Vinyl tile Floors. Or dealing with anytype of floor. I always picked up on the janitorial and then got into Cleaning, even medical. After about a year and half I was pretty much a Full Janitorial and Cleaning Buisness. Restoration, Fire Damage, Water Damage etc etc. Within two years I built the buisness up to 75k. That was clean and above board all bills paid.

So my fall back was to go into buisness for myself and of course my family.

Trinnity
07-06-2012, 06:39 AM
RollingWave. I just got a great deal on a new computer monitor, and it was made in Taiwan, in Taipei - in the Xinyi District. I suppose you know where that is...maybe?

BTW, I'm very pleased with the quality of the monitor.

RollingWave
07-06-2012, 11:48 AM
RollingWave. I just got a great deal on a new computer monitor, and it was made in Taiwan, in Taipei - in the Xinyi District. I suppose you know where that is...maybe?

BTW, I'm very pleased with the quality of the monitor.

That's odd, Xinyi district is one of the most comercialized destrict in all of Taiwan, I didn't know they had any factories there, though it is possible that is the address of the company headquoter and not the manufacturing site.

Xinyi district is both home to the Taipei city council / mayor office and the Taipei 101, recelty the worlds' tallest building.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/Taipei101.portrait.altonthompson.jpg/220px-Taipei101.portrait.altonthompson.jpg

yeah over the last couple decade Taiwan has quickly shed it's image as a cheap goods producer and gone towards a reputation of being a maker of (usually ) good quality.

MMC
07-06-2012, 12:00 PM
That building looks Looks Like what the Arctiects that Worked Down In Dallas and Chicago did. :shocked:

RollingWave
07-06-2012, 12:03 PM
It's quite an accomplishment because that unlike most other tallest buildings in the world, this one is built in the world most earthquake prone zone,. AND has to endure mulitple typhoon every year, so it was very fitting that they choose to build it in the shape of a bamboo, which is reknown for it's tenacity against the climates.

RollingWave
07-10-2012, 03:08 AM
Well the corruption case here in Taiwan sure is giving the press and satire community a field day....


When former President Chen was charged with laundering money a few years back he famously snarked "The money is dry, how do you wash it? " (laundering money in Chinese is the same word as "washing" money) . but this new major case is certainly proving Mr. Chen wrong, since after the news broke out in a desperate attempt to hide his money the dude locked the money into a box and threw it into his fish pound ............... when they finally found the suitcase in the pound the money inside is worth over 5 million bucks USD(!!!!) . and when investigated he said he "burned his money" now most people thought that meant he spent it on some sort of investment or something... but later they found out he REALLY "burned" it... at least 1 million USD worth of money( faints)

MMC
07-10-2012, 05:48 AM
Well the corruption case here in Taiwan sure is giving the press and satire community a field day....


When former President Chen was charged with laundering money a few years back he famously snarked "The money is dry, how do you wash it? " (laundering money in Chinese is the same word as "washing" money) . but this new major case is certainly proving Mr. Chen wrong, since after the news broke out in a desperate attempt to hide his money the dude locked the money into a box and threw it into his fish pound ............... when they finally found the suitcase in the pound the money inside is worth over 5 million bucks USD(!!!!) . and when investigated he said he "burned his money" now most people thought that meant he spent it on some sort of investment or something... but later they found out he REALLY "burned" it... at least 1 million USD worth of money( faints)


:facepalm:.....why is it I can never stumble across these people leaving large sums of cash around or destroying such. It's like :yo2: here let me buy you a few drinks. We will get drunk and I will be glad to help him out with his problem and of his need to get rid of his excess cash. It's like last year around us. Some guy found like 80k in a plastic garbage bag on the side of the road. Well he turned it in. They never did say if he got a reward.

But my question is who the hell stops on a road to look into a garbage bag to see whats in there. Most people I know and I would say most Americans except Southerners(in my experiences). Are in hurry to get to wherever it is they are going. Work, Home, and even if they are going out to party. Hurry up and get there and hurry up and go home. Then the next day it's back to the same grind.

RollingWave
07-10-2012, 07:58 AM
I'd suspect that if someone's gonna put money in the trash bag it's not gonna be money he's going to be walking into the police station to reclaim ;)

RollingWave
07-14-2012, 01:06 PM
Ok, things are getting a bit ... interesting over here.

the dispute of naval territories in East asia has suddenly took a major turn in recent days, while it has been acting up a lot more than usual already in the past year, China has more or less refrained from serious actions ... until now...

China's two main area of contention is the South China sea and also the islands of Diaoyutai (or Senkaku islands) with japan, the later is an island right around the middle of Taiwan to Okinawa. they've made some pretty serious gestures in the past week that's begining to make things look much more serious...

First is that they send a large fishing fleet (with escorts) into the Phillipine claimed portion of the South China sea, that is scarying plenty of folks, though the Phillipines have vowed.... to go cry to their Yankee daddies... that is not nearly as serious as their actions recently in the Diaoyutai, where they have been sending in patrol boats into the islands (while disupted, in reality the Japanese patrols have long dominated the islands and arrested Taiwanese / Chinese fishing ships that came near.

We've been pretty pissed too and send our own patrols near the isles, but China has send them for 3+ days in a role now which is unheard of. as a responds the Japanese have recalled their ambassador to China.

Of course the Japanese are hardly not at fault here. a major reason of the escaltion of recent events was this man.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/Shintaro_Ishihara%2C_2006-Sep-1.jpg/220px-Shintaro_Ishihara%2C_2006-Sep-1.jpg

Meet Shinataro Ishihara, the governor of Tokyo. while Japan's government come and go, the governor of one of the worlds largest city is remarkablly consistent, most of them have served at least a dozen years. so it is not surprising that some people feel that they are the actual master of japan and not the prime ministers who often last less than a year.

Of course, Ishihara's stance is.... ummmm..... conservative to say the least... conservative as in that He's talks would sound perfectly normal if he was a politician of the pre 1945 Japan..... yes he's basically a unapplogitic Japanese imperialist..... while if today a German politician had anything close to that level of support fo the Nazi era he's be jailed faster than he'd be tossed outta office, there japanese counter parts are on the other hand still very much influential in Japanese politics.. and Ishihara's certainly the one that holds the highest real power amongst them.

Ishihara shocked everyone by saying Tokyo city will buy all the islands from the folks that holds their land lease and thus nationalize the island, while this sounds crazy since those isles are obviously way out of his jurisdiction, it forced the central government to up the wager with him. and in the process completely blew off China's lid.

To be honest, we're about as close to a real military conflict over those isles as it has ever really gotten, the japanese probably just need to push it a little bit further and china will almost surely have to use some sort of real show of force. (most people feel that the Japanese might test the final limits of China by building a lighthouse there or something.)

To be frank, while I'm not a huge PRC supporter, if there's one aspect I'd almost surely can not stand with even more is folks like Ishihara, aka the same folks that claim the Nanking massacer was completely made up etc...

Peter1469
07-14-2012, 01:21 PM
Interesting.

I am betting that China is moving now because of the Obama foreign policy shift to the Pacific. However, the US is distracted by Iran. So much of our naval assets are tied up in the Persian Gulf region giving China freedom of movement in the Pacific. Iran will be dealt with in the short term, and then the US Navy will be free to move in force into the Pacific.

RollingWave
07-14-2012, 10:51 PM
Interesting.

I am betting that China is moving now because of the Obama foreign policy shift to the Pacific. However, the US is distracted by Iran. So much of our naval assets are tied up in the Persian Gulf region giving China freedom of movement in the Pacific. Iran will be dealt with in the short term, and then the US Navy will be free to move in force into the Pacific.

That may have something to do with it, though it seems that it is less in that China wants to test the US as that other nearby countries, knowing that the US is going to increase commitement in the region, wants to test China's limits as well.

Then again, dudes like Ishihara have been assholes forever, so you never know

MMC
07-15-2012, 06:33 AM
Is he Yakuza as well RW? Hard to believe there are any Japanese Imperialists still round. Has there been any word if the Japanese have sent their Patrols out or within visual range of the Chinese?

Peter1469
07-15-2012, 07:16 AM
That may have something to do with it, though it seems that it is less in that China wants to test the US as that other nearby countries, knowing that the US is going to increase commitement in the region, wants to test China's limits as well.

Then again, dudes like Ishihara have been assholes forever, so you never know

Right. I didn't mean that China was testing the US. China is moving now because the US navy is otherwise engaged- and that situation won't last forever.

RollingWave
07-15-2012, 09:17 AM
I don't know of his personal connection, but the Japanese far right (aka ex-imperialist) is around for a variety of reason, one is that unlike Germany the allies didn't do a full purge on ex-nazis counterparts in Japan, they only nominally trialed some of the top leaders while most were let off, there wasn't any fundemental changes, most of the familes that were in power before 1945 are still in power today, Japan's politics, despite theortically being a democracy, has a huge deal of feudal elements in there, you'd be shocked at how many of their elected officals can trace their linage back to early Meiji politicians or in many cases, even all the way back to Sengoku era famous samurais...

RollingWave
07-19-2012, 02:39 AM
Well now, Ishihara want to land on the island to survey it, and a civilian member of the PRC wants to do the same. that's not going to go down well... at this stage I'm fairly scared that the national sentiment (a poll conducted showed that 91% of the PRC citizens polled wants the government to use military force on the issue.. and it's probably not a rigged poll)

Even Taiwan's polls are showing a considerable amount of folks that seems to lean towards military resoultion on the issue. not nearly as high as the PRC for a variety of reasons (obviously, one being that unlike the PRC, us going to war is not sending some other poor folk's kids to die, everyone might be recalled for duty or have relatives currenty in mandatory service, not to meantion the obvious problem of going with the PRC against a USA protectoriate...) but given thes two obvious circumstances, the very fact that even a significant number of people lean that way is pretty shocking.

In other news, Taiwan and the Mainland is finally about to start permenant formal financial transactions, meaning that you can FINALLY legally change your New Taiwan dollar to the Chinese RenMing Bi in Taiwan or Vice versa (yes that was not legal, can you imagine two of the worlds' most viberant economy can't legally exchange to each other's currency?!?! more amusing consider that Taiwan is actually the largest single invester in China?!?!?)

Taiwan's own economy hasn't been looking too good lately, export # have fallen for several months in roll now, though unemployement and inflation figure is in check... many people even forsee a signficiant fall in housing prices for the first time in like a decade...

RollingWave
07-19-2012, 02:47 AM
Here's a pic of retiring AIT director (aka ambassador in disguise) William Stanton recieving a gift from the President... it's basically a card you can use to take buses / trains in Taiwan.. custom made for him.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s480x480/547809_404222642973207_1242920160_n.jpg

And look who's back in Taiwan? I'm pretty sure he's not asking folks on the road if they believe in Jesus again like he did 30 years ago though ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABYG5C_DDE0

RollingWave
07-19-2012, 07:53 AM
Huntsmen certainly came in interesting times, he said he was first here in 1978-79 (when the US offically broke ties with the ROC... bad time to be a Yankee in Taiwan to be sure...) and then here again in 87 (when the authoritarian rule offically ended) and then again the late 90s (for WTO negotiatons).

MMC
07-19-2012, 07:57 AM
Who is Taiwan Importing Oil from? Any Patches around Taiwan in your waters? Whats the price of gas by you RW? Liter or gallon?

RollingWave
07-19-2012, 08:28 AM
Hmmm, Taiwan imports oil from a variety of places but mainly still the middle east since that's the closest oil produce, I'm not too sure though.

price of gas.... hmmmmmm, let me try to calculate here since this involve both exchange rate and different measurements.... since we usually measure by liters.. here today the common price is around 33.5 NT per liter... 33.5 NT is slightly more than a dollar (about 1.15 USD) ... however a US gallon is 3.79 L which means that the price is about 4.3 USD per gallon? I think that's the math at least. it's almost certainly more expensive than the average price in the USA but not as much as other places that don't have any crude (like say Japan)

Taiwan's only has two oil company though (and really just 1, the publicly owned China oil, the other company is a private local one let in but generally just follow China oil's price with very minor differences.) so there is some monopoly effect and obviously public companies aren't the most efficient things in the world (then again, it's hard to say the big oils in general don't have a monopoly effect by themself already. and Taiwan's public company often run a loss to subsidize stuff anyway)

we don't have a lick of oil ourself, though supposedly there is some possible field in the South China sea and around DiaoyuTai (hence all the dispute over these areas) though we do have a very significant oil refinary industry so we actually export refined oil... but have to import every last drop of crude.

MMC
07-19-2012, 12:56 PM
Hmmm, Taiwan imports oil from a variety of places but mainly still the middle east since that's the closest oil produce, I'm not too sure though.

price of gas.... hmmmmmm, let me try to calculate here since this involve both exchange rate and different measurements.... since we usually measure by liters.. here today the common price is around 33.5 NT per liter... 33.5 NT is slightly more than a dollar (about 1.15 USD) ... however a US gallon is 3.79 L which means that the price is about 4.3 USD per gallon? I think that's the math at least. it's almost certainly more expensive than the average price in the USA but not as much as other places that don't have any crude (like say Japan)

Taiwan's only has two oil company though (and really just 1, the publicly owned China oil, the other company is a private local one let in but generally just follow China oil's price with very minor differences.) so there is some monopoly effect and obviously public companies aren't the most efficient things in the world (then again, it's hard to say the big oils in general don't have a monopoly effect by themself already. and Taiwan's public company often run a loss to subsidize stuff anyway)

we don't have a lick of oil ourself, though supposedly there is some possible field in the South China sea and around DiaoyuTai (hence all the dispute over these areas) though we do have a very significant oil refinary industry so we actually export refined oil... but have to import every last drop of crude.


We are down to 3.41 a gallon.....just shot down by 7 cents. Biggest jump down in like 2 or 3 years that I can think of. So is taiwan looking to go to alternatives? Politicans there aren't able to milk that money as much are they?

RollingWave
07-19-2012, 01:14 PM
well the problem with Taiwan in terms of alternative is that we're not exactly a big domestic market here, while I guess 23 million is no chop liver it's certainly not enough to be a world market setter, thus for us to pioneer stuff like alternative energy is very unlikely, we simply would never be able to reach economics of scale on such things. China has a much better chance of doing that . we don't even have enough land to built a seirous solar energy farm. (not like that we would if we did, since is about as "sunny" as England).

However, as i said a couple page back most folks in Taiwan ride the scooter anyway.(you'd be surprised at how even really really well off folks own and often ride one as well) which is very fuel efficient, and in the capital area the public transportation is very good, it's usually faster than actually driving and fidning a parking space (not to meaniton cheaper) so that's sort of our way of dealing with energy prices (recent years bikes have become the rage again also, though mostly as recreational and not as much in daily, though some folks gone back to that as well out of health reasons)

Taiwan's generally best at making expensive stuff affordable, like computers (remember it use to cause a fortune until the later 90s?), or recently high end bicycles. (we're also an intrigate part of most of the smart phone making process), we're good at developing manufacturing process and that sort of stuff, but we have too much natural limitations to really go much further at this point.

MMC
07-19-2012, 01:27 PM
well the problem with Taiwan in terms of alternative is that we're not exactly a big domestic market here, while I guess 23 million is no chop liver it's certainly not enough to be a world market setter, thus for us to pioneer stuff like alternative energy is very unlikely, we simply would never be able to reach economics of scale on such things. China has a much better chance of doing that . we don't even have enough land to built a seirous solar energy farm. (not like that we would if we did, since is about as "sunny" as England).

However, as i said a couple page back most folks in Taiwan ride the scooter anyway.(you'd be surprised at how even really really well off folks own and often ride one as well) which is very fuel efficient, and in the capital area the public transportation is very good, it's usually faster than actually driving and fidning a parking space (not to meaniton cheaper) so that's sort of our way of dealing with energy prices (recent years bikes have become the rage again also, though mostly as recreational and not as much in daily, though some folks gone back to that as well out of health reasons)

Taiwan's generally best at making expensive stuff affordable, like computers (remember it use to cause a fortune until the later 90s?), or recently high end bicycles. (we're also an intrigate part of most of the smart phone making process), we're good at developing manufacturing process and that sort of stuff, but we have too much natural limitations to really go much further at this point.

Still I would think you guys would want to become as energy independant as you could. Plus aren't you guys working on Some sort of Smaller Solar battery. I thought I heard something like a design to go with homes and or buildings/offices. Although I am not sure where I saw that piece on.

So basically the Chinese and the Japanese is Taiwan's worry? Just how do you guys over there think about the ME? You know when people get around and talk about whats happening there. How do they view all the conflicts and the Situation with Israel? What about all this Arab Spring?

Do you go boating yourself? So what do you do when you out and about. Partying wise? Ever go boating to some lil islands around there? Or Hiking etc etc.?

RollingWave
07-19-2012, 01:58 PM
we're always developing stuff of course, just that it's fairly unlikely for us to end up with the really really big breakthrough stuff, but then again there is merit in process improvment, most of the alternative energy stuff's basic is already there it's just that its' not very efficient.

Well, we don't really give a damn about the ME anyway , since we cant' do jack about it why give a shit. for a small country it's hard to really care too much about the other places when our influence is so limited. on a purely morale side I'm guessing most of us see this a battle between a bully against a bunch of medieval crazies. hard to really symposize with either side

Taiwan actually doesn't have that many surronding islands, at least close onces anyway (the ocean current around Taiwan is actually very unfavorable, there is a reason why it took so long for Chinese to actually start immigrating to the island...), water sports are only developing in recent years. our beachs are not really that ideal except in a few places.

Activity wise it's pretty diverse so there's no real one thing everyone do, party wise... well most people live in apartments so there's not much room to party, only the really rich folks do that , though gathering to eat stuff is very common, Taiwan has a ridiculas density for food stands and such, which is probably why for some inexplicable reason we're the fatest country in east asia despite not really being the wealthiest ;)

MMC
07-19-2012, 02:07 PM
Yeah I guess I would feel that way too. So not much into the nite life are ya. I appreciate you giving us all this info. I like to know how others are thinking and some of the commanlities that we all share.

RollingWave
07-23-2012, 04:15 AM
I went to a gathering of former under-grad classmates of mine over the weekends and learned a few interesting things, a few of them had been working or studying in the states over the last couple years, but most of them are returning to east Asia, the once that are staying are mostly gunning for a teaching position (they are about to get their PHDs in economics related fields) . the one guy that's returning was working for an accounting firm in California, but he noted that even though nominal income in much higher there, after subtracting taxes and living cost you'll probably actually end up with less money saved than if you work for a similar job in Taiwan or other places like Singapore. While another guy turned down a position from Amazon saying that "there's no way that kind of paying job is in any way sustainable in the long term" (meaning that it pays too much for too little work, and he's worried that if he takes that job he'll have a great 10 year then be unemployed for the rest of his life). so he's taking a foreign firm job in Shanghai.

Though they all noted that he US is basically nowadays the tale of two economy, one that is doing fabulous (high tech, bankings and big busneiss in general) and one not so much (the more average joe work stuff). That's there take... and it's certainly interesting... one of the soon to be PHD said that most college institutions are booming thx to the continued expanding influx of foreign students...

Peter1469
07-23-2012, 06:22 AM
Interesting news.

MMC
07-23-2012, 06:31 AM
Heya RW have you heard anything about whats been happening inside N Korea? I believe we had a thread up about some type of Military Coup over there.

RollingWave
07-23-2012, 09:28 AM
no idea, we're as much in the dark about North Korea as you guys are, all we know is that they're truely living in a totally other world than we do, I mean it's not just say... Afganistan like different world where the biggest problem is simply education and economics, it's really completely fucked up different even by commie standarads

MMC
07-23-2012, 09:45 AM
Heard you guys and China opened up with markets down. Caused 15% pts drop in S&P thats 1 Full % drop here.

RollingWave
07-23-2012, 10:33 AM
really? our stock markets are rarely relavent to the US i'd think, it's not much compare to the Japanese and Hong Kong markets. our markets are going down cause we're about to pass a capital gain tax law on stocks (mostly headed by a dude that tought me in college and is now a legislator).

Taiwan's capital market is pretty heavily regulated anyway, and also since we can't openly trade with China (it's about to open up just now) in a lot of direct financial stuff (we're scared they'll take monopolize our key industry and such). so our banking sector is never particularly strong. a hedge fund manager is not exactly a position most of my classmates wanted to go into (we study related stuff so some do go into that). the most popular choice for them is probably joining Taiwan's equivlaent of the IRS and FED, though increasingly the choices are more diversed.

MMC
07-23-2012, 10:45 AM
Yeah I think we are blaming on the Euro. Well Obama is. Course Obama is talking about anything else but finances, debt or deficits. Currently he is trying to figure out how is going to hide some more costs to his Obamacare that were found recently but not when he first put them out. So some more smozzing for him to try and pass off. :wink:

RollingWave
07-23-2012, 10:50 AM
On the topic of health care, it intrigues me how the US manage to spend so much money for so little, the US spends about twice as much on health care as a % of the GDP than most European "socialist welfare states" and about 3 times as much as that of Taiwan ... and even universal coverage is still a matter of debate? how? we basically even subsidize foreign visitor's health coverage to some extend let alone our own folks, I agree that govenrment is never the most efficent thing but the US health care spending seem to be setting a rather low bar even amongst the usual government level of efficiency....

Peter1469
07-23-2012, 11:19 AM
On the topic of health care, it intrigues me how the US manage to spend so much money for so little, the US spends about twice as much on health care as a % of the GDP than most European "socialist welfare states" and about 3 times as much as that of Taiwan ... and even universal coverage is still a matter of debate? how? we basically even subsidize foreign visitor's health coverage to some extend let alone our own folks, I agree that govenrment is never the most efficent thing but the US health care spending seem to be setting a rather low bar even amongst the usual government level of efficiency....

Most of our spending is on end of life care.

RollingWave
07-23-2012, 12:03 PM
as in keeping really old vegetables alive for 10 more years? ok I can see why that'll cost a ton... yeah that part we really don't subsidize as Chinese tradition of taking care of your parents is still very strong in Taiwan, as long as he / she can live without needing to be plugged onto something we'll usually take care of them at home.

Peter1469
07-23-2012, 12:22 PM
as in keeping really old vegetables alive for 10 more years? ok I can see why that'll cost a ton... yeah that part we really don't subsidize as Chinese tradition of taking care of your parents is still very strong in Taiwan, as long as he / she can live without needing to be plugged onto something we'll usually take care of them at home.

Yes, that is the largest part of our health care costs.

RollingWave
07-23-2012, 12:37 PM
Yes, that is the largest part of our health care costs.

and yet the US average age expectency is still considerablly lower... ouch.

Peter1469
07-23-2012, 12:42 PM
and yet the US average age expectency is still considerablly lower... ouch.

bad diets and little exercise.

RollingWave
07-23-2012, 10:18 PM
I dunno, at least the exercise part I see plenty of Americans that well above average in terms of that, where as most of those Japanese old ladies that live to 100+ don't seem to be the model of continued exercise either... the diet part i guess i can agree on.

RollingWave
07-24-2012, 09:16 PM
in other news, Beijing saw the largest single day recorded rainfall in over 60 years.. in the typically draw city this obviously caused quite a flood, as strange sudden large rainfall without a typhoon seem to be the thing this year (Japan was recently hit in similar matter as well). the result was pretty bad, over 30 people died and financial losses are huge.

but people noticed one thing... while all those modern buildings and places are hit by what's often chest high or more flood.... the places that DIDN'T flood at all are.....

The forbidden Palace
The alter of the sky

and all those other 400 + year old imperial buildings.... not even a significant puddle formed there...

which has obviously lead to the snark by Chinese bloggesr that modern Beijing's infrastructure is still 400 years behind our ancestors :grin:

MMC
07-24-2012, 09:24 PM
We lose so much money from disasters. Yet they wont look at the way they build for Coastlines or certain areas of the country hit by specific disasters. Like in the Midwest they get hit with tornadoes non-stop. Yet they wont build domed homes out on the plains for some reason. Same things with coastlines and hurricanes.

Isn't Typhoon or monsoon season over there now? Got any Pics of life around there by you RW? I dont mean personal pics. You know the buisness district, urban areas as opposed to others, etc etc.

Captain America
07-24-2012, 09:30 PM
Most of our spending is on end of life care.

Funny you mention that. My mom, rest her soul, spent 2 months in a hospital at the end of her life. She told us all her life she didn't want to go out that way. They kept her alive long enough to totally deplete here assets and maxed out her Medicare benefits, before sending her to the hospice to die. My brother said almost a quarter million was billed to the government.

Not saying I was in a hurry to see the old girl go but therein lies a serious problem.

MMC
07-24-2012, 10:26 PM
Funny you mention that. My mom, rest her soul, spent 2 months in a hospital at the end of her life. She told us all her life she didn't want to go out that way. They kept her alive long enough to totally deplete here assets and maxed out her Medicare benefits, before sending her to the hospice to die. My brother said almost a quarter million was billed to the government.

Not saying I was in a hurry to see the old girl go but therein lies a serious problem.

I went thru the same experience recently and all I can think of is my Mom's words.....on she didnt want to be there, was uncomfortable and wanted to go home. To this day I felt that those in the hospital and rehab should have been more upfront with us as they knew what they were seeing. They also pretty much knew what time she had left. In the end she couldnt deal with the pain. Let them drug her out just like putting an animal to sleep. She couldnt even function and worse she couldnt even communicate anymore. :angry:

All I know is if I could go back and my mother told me she wanted go home, could do it all over again.....then I would have did what she asked and then No one would have stopped me, and that would have included any other family members. :angry:

RollingWave
07-24-2012, 11:09 PM
every region is somewhat different, taiwan doesn't have a true monsoon season (it just kinda rain all year long ) but we do rain more in the may to june period usually.

typhoon season can last most of the year too anyway, it's usually concentrated in june to august but anything from april to even november is possible. so far this year there hasn't really been much typhoon in Taiwan, everyone of them seem to end up elsewhere.

Yeah when I was at florida I was shocked at how many wooden houses they were building on the coast, that seems like the dumbest idea ever. (or rather, the greatest idea ever for construction companies! ;))

RollingWave
07-25-2012, 06:11 AM
Got any Pics of life around there by you RW? I dont mean personal pics. You know the buisness district, urban areas as opposed to others, etc etc.

well Taiwan is an.... unregulated place... to say the least... people kinda just built however you like so it's often a odd mess.

for example a few blocks away from where i live.... hey an apartment store and lots of modern looking apartment.. right?

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff59/RollingWave/life/IMG_8323.jpg


but if you turn 180 from where i stood when I took this pic...


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff59/RollingWave/life/IMG_8322.jpg

not exactly a model of urban planning there heh. notice how pretty much every house in this picture is a shop + residence? that generally sum up Taiwan most of the time.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff59/RollingWave/life/IMG_8324.jpg

as you can see, a lot of folks just build shacks onto of their house.. it's ... not clearly illegal... but not clearly legal either ;)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff59/RollingWave/life/IMG_8328.jpg
and of course all kinds of commercial plasters everywhere... errrr.. i'm not sure if all the deregulation folks would really like it if their neighborhood is suddenly filled with adds like this :grin:

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff59/RollingWave/life/IMG_8329.jpg

this street outside a local elementary school (the wall to the left) is a normal street by day but turns into a night market most nights... though today it's not open because of a pavement works.. hence why a lot of folks wondering around ...

it usually looks like this at night.
http://www.lighttaiwan.com/albums_files/1/550/pic_s111940.jpg


these stands can sell basically anything ... (ok you can't sell guns / drugs / sex... but pretty much everything else is ok)... it's often considered the final contingency plan for anyone... aka no matter how down trodden you end up you probably can make a living with a night market stand.. the cost to setup is very low while profits vary, but most make ends meet just fine... so it attracts folks from almots all walks of life and back ground... bankrupted busniessmen, middle age unemployed. kids just starting out.. mobsters that want to leave the underworld... multiple generation stands... you name it.

In fact, this local one even attract this guy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lQebudqfWAw

yes, your eyes aren't mistaken, a white guy setting up a food stand in a Taiwanese night market? this guys is actually quite interesting... seing that he's a polish dude that spent most of his youth ummm...riding a WW2 motorcycle from Poland to the pacific... he even lived with the Talibans for a period of time..... but for some inexlipcable reason (aka getting married ) he now settles in Taiwan and make a living selling Polish cake... you'd understand why they make a documentary about it ;)

MMC
07-25-2012, 06:22 AM
Awesome Pics RW.....kinda gives people a perspective of how things are over there. I am sure Chicago has some areas like that on the SouthSide. Where you turn around from Skyscrapers and then are looking at an area of shops and or buildings turned into Homes. Plus China -Town is on the South-Side of the City.

Whats the Earthquake Situation like?

RollingWave
07-25-2012, 06:40 AM
it quakes pretty much every month, but most you don't feel much if at all, though our tolerenace level is pretty high anyway, it takes a pretty strong one to really scare us. we havn't had a deadly quake in over a decade. that one was 7.3 Mw (in comparison, the 1989 San Fran quanke was 6.9 Mw ) but that one was REALLY bad, (it killed some 2400 + people!) . though since then most new buildings are of much higher earth quake proof standard. that one came right at the end of our boom era where we were a lot like China today. aka having most of the flashy stuff but a lot of the underlying saftey and infrastructure was garbage.... in short it's pretty much the same as San Francisco, normally you don't feel much and get use to it, and hope your building's strong enough when the big one hits.

Captain America
07-25-2012, 07:13 AM
I went thru the same experience recently and all I can think of is my Mom's words.....on she didnt want to be there, was uncomfortable and wanted to go home. To this day I felt that those in the hospital and rehab should have been more upfront with us as they knew what they were seeing. They also pretty much knew what time she had left. In the end she couldnt deal with the pain. Let them drug her out just like putting an animal to sleep. She couldnt even function and worse she couldnt even communicate anymore. :angry:

All I know is if I could go back and my mother told me she wanted go home, could do it all over again.....then I would have did what she asked and then No one would have stopped me, and that would have included any other family members. :angry:

My same experience EXACTLY! They just "kept her comfortable" until they could suck it dry. And, fact is, she wasn't THAT comfortable. The drugs had her hallucinating, nightmares, stole her mind. Scared her to death.

Put her down like an animal, they did. I couldn't have said it better myself.

MMC
07-25-2012, 12:13 PM
it quakes pretty much every month, but most you don't feel much if at all, though our tolerenace level is pretty high anyway, it takes a pretty strong one to really scare us. we havn't had a deadly quake in over a decade. that one was 7.3 Mw (in comparison, the 1989 San Fran quanke was 6.9 Mw ) but that one was REALLY bad, (it killed some 2400 + people!) . though since then most new buildings are of much higher earth quake proof standard. that one came right at the end of our boom era where we were a lot like China today. aka having most of the flashy stuff but a lot of the underlying saftey and infrastructure was garbage.... in short it's pretty much the same as San Francisco, normally you don't feel much and get use to it, and hope your building's strong enough when the big one hits.


Yeah when I was out west and there for a bit I was little bit more receptive of the tremors. Still the first time i experienced a shaking was in the night when i was a sleep. I woke up thinking the place was being raided. :laugh:

RollingWave
07-25-2012, 01:15 PM
well i must say that 7.3 quake was the only time in my life where an earth quake really woke me up, i manage to sleep through just about anything else ;)

Peter1469
07-25-2012, 03:58 PM
Funny you mention that. My mom, rest her soul, spent 2 months in a hospital at the end of her life. She told us all her life she didn't want to go out that way. They kept her alive long enough to totally deplete here assets and maxed out her Medicare benefits, before sending her to the hospice to die. My brother said almost a quarter million was billed to the government.

Not saying I was in a hurry to see the old girl go but therein lies a serious problem.

Sorry for your loss. Agreed.

RollingWave
08-10-2012, 03:38 AM
Well, the PRC government seem to be taking advantage of while the worlds' mostly focused on the Olympics, they try to quickly go through the trails of Gu Kai Lai (you know, the girl that killed James Bond... errr I mean a MI6 connected shady Brit) and also another big shot political figure, (the ex railway minister who seem to have taken huge advantage of China's epic railway boom)

Gu admitted to the charges, and Chinese political show trails are usually really quick, most folks don' think she'll be executed though, but this is China so who knows. The general guess is that they fear Gu and her husband will go all out and blow up so much dirty secret that the party will face a huge crisis if they were to be executed etc...

http://www.libertytimes.com.tw/2012/new/aug/10/images/92.jpg

meanwhile, after 20 years of Taiwanese investing in China, amazingly only yesterday was there actually an agreement on investment protection, since Taiwanese are regarded by China as "not foreigner" ... but also "not citizen" ... the obvious self contradiction has caused Taiwanese folks on the mainland to often be at a huge disadvantage whenever they are involved in legal dispute (in a land where legal rules were already somewhat weak to began with). thus we sometimes see cases where say.... a Taiwanese company signs a 20 year lease on a land and builds a huge department store... but then 5 years later the landlords demand a huge rent raise and refuse to honor previous written contracts etc... (usually in such situation the general method for our investors would be to try and bribe an official to slam down on that landlord ....) hopefully with this deal FINALLY in place the situation will improve somewhat


http://www.want-daily.com/data/attachment/portal/2012 8/10/wdp_1344550502_5733.jpg

Trinnity
08-10-2012, 04:02 AM
Interesting, RW. Thanks for filling me in on this.

MMC
08-10-2012, 07:38 AM
Well, the PRC government seem to be taking advantage of while the worlds' mostly focused on the Olympics, they try to quickly go through the trails of Gu Kai Lai (you know, the girl that killed James Bond... errr I mean a MI6 connected shady Brit) and also another big shot political figure, (the ex railway minister who seem to have taken huge advantage of China's epic railway boom)

Gu admitted to the charges, and Chinese political show trails are usually really quick, most folks don' think she'll be executed though, but this is China so who knows. The general guess is that they fear Gu and her husband will go all out and blow up so much dirty secret that the party will face a huge crisis if they were to be executed etc...

http://www.libertytimes.com.tw/2012/new/aug/10/images/92.jpg

meanwhile, after 20 years of Taiwanese investing in China, amazingly only yesterday was there actually an agreement on investment protection, since Taiwanese are regarded by China as "not foreigner" ... but also "not citizen" ... the obvious self contradiction has caused Taiwanese folks on the mainland to often be at a huge disadvantage whenever they are involved in legal dispute (in a land where legal rules were already somewhat weak to began with). thus we sometimes see cases where say.... a Taiwanese company signs a 20 year lease on a land and builds a huge department store... but then 5 years later the landlords demand a huge rent raise and refuse to honor previous written contracts etc... (usually in such situation the general method for our investors would be to try and bribe an official to slam down on that landlord ....) hopefully with this deal FINALLY in place the situation will improve somewhat


http://www.want-daily.com/data/attachment/portal/2012 8/10/wdp_1344550502_5733.jpg

Which one was the Actress involved with RW? Or was that a different story?

RollingWave
08-10-2012, 01:07 PM
Which one was the Actress involved with RW? Or was that a different story?

the rumor was that Gu's husband Bo Xi Lai slepted with a shit load of famous actress for a huge sum of money, including Zhiyi Chang, who has starred in a ton of flims including Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Crouching_Tiger,_Hidden_Dragon) (2000), Rush Hour 2 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Rush_Hour_2) (2001), House of Flying Daggers (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/House_of_Flying_Daggers) (2004), and Memoirs of a Geisha (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Memoirs_of_a_Geisha_(film)) (2005) Zhang denies this of course ;)

RollingWave
08-12-2012, 07:29 AM
meanwhile, another long time island dispute is blowing up again.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Location-of-Liancourt-rocks-en.png/300px-Location-of-Liancourt-rocks-en.png

The liancourt rocks, as you can see is smack in the middle between South Korea and Japan, and both side have long claimed it to be theirs (Korea appears to have the upper hand in terms of actual control) . but the situation escalated recently with the South Korean primnister Lee actually landing on the rocks itself. causing a major uproar in Japan as they recalled their envoy to Japan, usually the sign of the most severe protest short of say... going to war or no longer recognizing the other side as a soverign state etc..

URF8
08-14-2012, 01:00 PM
Japan and South Korea have many mutual interests, but their tortured past prevents them from working together. Japan hasn't come to terms with its brutal history and the South Korea has an historical chip on its shoulder.

RollingWave
08-14-2012, 09:54 PM
True, but historically speaking Korea have strong ties with China as well, so their mutual interest with Japan may not seem as clear cut in the longer term, for South Korea, who worry of the inevitable North implosion, relationship with Beijing is especially important as both will need to work together in that sort of event.

The real thing is Japan has island conflict with every one of it's neighbor, which makes them the easy common enemy or everyone involved, this of course, is a headache for the US, seeing that it almost certainly don't want to go to war because of some silly islands and is greatly annoyed by the fact that this threaten their ring of chains against the PRC as it pushes two of their obvious allies (Taiwan and South Korea) closer to China in these conflicts.

URF8
08-15-2012, 02:16 AM
True, but historically speaking Korea have strong ties with China as well, so their mutual interest with Japan may not seem as clear cut in the longer term, for South Korea, who worry of the inevitable North implosion, relationship with Beijing is especially important as both will need to work together in that sort of event.

The real thing is Japan has island conflict with every one of it's neighbor, which makes them the easy common enemy or everyone involved, this of course, is a headache for the US, seeing that it almost certainly don't want to go to war because of some silly islands and is greatly annoyed by the fact that this threaten their ring of chains against the PRC as it pushes two of their obvious allies (Taiwan and South Korea) closer to China in these conflicts.

If South Korea wants to be reunified with the DPRK it will be necessary for SK to arrange some form of accommodation with the PRC. Such an accommodation would require removal of USFK forces from the Korean Peninsula. If that happens Japan will have interesting choices to make.

RollingWave
08-15-2012, 04:35 AM
If South Korea wants to be reunified with the DPRK it will be necessary for SK to arrange some form of accommodation with the PRC. Such an accommodation would require removal of USFK forces from the Korean Peninsula. If that happens Japan will have interesting choices to make.


Yes, that is the likely case that most folks can think of... and it seems likely it's going to happen within our life time anyway. the North's insane government can't possibly last forever. with the North gone the US army's presence becomes much more ambiguous. so it would seem like a given that if reunification happens the US will leave Korea.

Today the Korean President just said along the lines that he wants the Emperor of Japan to appologize for WW2, that's obviously not gonna end well... but he does have a point in saying that "some things simply can not be left unspoken forever"

For us other Asians the general view has always been that the US gave Japan kids glove after WW2 (most likely due to the practical needs of the impending cold war situation) and thus a lot of old scores were never fully settled, so it's not hard to see why it wouldn't be hard for all of us to gang up on Japan in most disputes.

Still, some really ugly issues were really never settled, during WW2 it was well known that Japan essentially enslaved a significant number of young girls (even the most conservative Japanese sourcse says there were over 20k of them, non-Japanese source claim up to 410k!!!! reality is more likely right in the middle I'd guess.) as sex slaves (predominantly from Taiwan and Korea, but also China / South East Asia as well) for their military, the few surviving women are in their 80s now, but numerous compensation and apology filing have basically fell on deaf ears, the logic in japan seem to be that if they admit and compensate for this they'll open a huge flood gate where endless amount of compensation charges can be filed agains them. it's not hard to see how even only mildly nationalistic folks can be stirred up to such outrage.

Japan did pay about 400 Million USD to Korea way back in the 60s to cover "all damage for WW2 and colonization" but never to other countries, still, the San Fransico treaty theoretically barred other allied POWs from sueing the Japanese government for further compensation, and they use that argument on these situation as well, which is obviously rather infuriating.

URF8
08-15-2012, 10:14 AM
Japan's inability to come to terms with its past and South Korean revulsion at Japan's actions more than seventy years ago will play into Chinese hands. It ensures that Japan and South Korea each face China alone. It also ensures that South Korea will become a vassal of the Chinese and that Japan will go nuclear in its isolation.

Mister D
08-15-2012, 10:19 AM
Yes, that is the likely case that most folks can think of... and it seems likely it's going to happen within our life time anyway. the North's insane government can't possibly last forever. with the North gone the US army's presence becomes much more ambiguous. so it would seem like a given that if reunification happens the US will leave Korea.

Today the Korean President just said along the lines that he wants the Emperor of Japan to appologize for WW2, that's obviously not gonna end well... but he does have a point in saying that "some things simply can not be left unspoken forever"

For us other Asians the general view has always been that the US gave Japan kids glove after WW2 (most likely due to the practical needs of the impending cold war situation) and thus a lot of old scores were never fully settled, so it's not hard to see why it wouldn't be hard for all of us to gang up on Japan in most disputes.

Still, some really ugly issues were really never settled, during WW2 it was well known that Japan essentially enslaved a significant number of young girls (even the most conservative Japanese sourcse says there were over 20k of them, non-Japanese source claim up to 410k!!!! reality is more likely right in the middle I'd guess.) as sex slaves (predominantly from Taiwan and Korea, but also China / South East Asia as well) for their military, the few surviving women are in their 80s now, but numerous compensation and apology filing have basically fell on deaf ears, the logic in japan seem to be that if they admit and compensate for this they'll open a huge flood gate where endless amount of compensation charges can be filed agains them. it's not hard to see how even only mildly nationalistic folks can be stirred up to such outrage.

Japan did pay about 400 Million USD to Korea way back in the 60s to cover "all damage for WW2 and colonization" but never to other countries, still, the San Fransico treaty theoretically barred other allied POWs from sueing the Japanese government for further compensation, and they use that argument on these situation as well, which is obviously rather infuriating.

Thanks for that perspective. Germany has gone in the opposite direction of constant self-flagellation and self-loathing.

RollingWave
08-15-2012, 08:54 PM
Thanks for that perspective. Germany has gone in the opposite direction of constant self-flagellation and self-loathing.
yeah, which is also probably why even Isreal / Poland / Czech / Russia today is generally on decent terms with them.. (of course not having a ton of unihabited rocks in between them helps too)


Yesterday a Hong Kong boat managed to sneak up onto the disputed Daiyutai island and planted the ROC and PRC flag up there.... and then was immediately arrested by the Japanese authority. meanwhile the Russians are also making big waves on the Kuril Isles, which they had kinda stole from Japan at the very end of WW2 (FDR basically traded it to them for their 1 week entrance into Manchuria.... which probably did more to make China a commie state than it helped ending WW2)

URF8
08-15-2012, 09:48 PM
The Soviet entry as a combatant into the Pacific Theater of WWII may have been the straw that broke the back of the Japanese militarists in 1945. When combined with the reign of ruin from the sky the Soviet invasion of Manchuria and Korea may have sufficiently undermined the authority of the militarists to permit the Emperor to order the acceptance of unconditional surrender.

In attacking the Kwantung Army the Soviets violated the terms of the Russo-Japanese Non-Agression Pact. Moreover, the invasion held the prospect of a Soviet Occupation of some of the Japanese home islands. Communism was less acceptable than Western Liberalism.

RollingWave
08-16-2012, 01:26 AM
well, the Soviets didn't have the naval capacity to actually invade Japan. though with the help of the US that may be a different question.

Though one should not underestimate the effect of the Soviet entrance in the outcome of the Chinese civil war, as the key game changer in the war ended up being.... Manchuria... though reading that part of the history I feel that even without the Soviet entrance the KMT's loss seems pretty inevitable, but it certainly didn't help matters.

Mister D
08-16-2012, 08:19 AM
The US, IMO, also played a role in the defeat of the Nationalists. We pushed Chiang Kai-shek to liberalize and exposed him to a great deal of criticism that we shouldn't have. I think this was due primarily to a lack of understanding of Chinese culture and political realities on the part of American advisors. We would do the same to Diem in South Vietnam.

RollingWave
08-16-2012, 11:00 AM
that's part of the problem, but in reality, Chang never really controlled all of China, the ROC in 1945 was really still an confederation of warlords more or less, and they had virtually no resource but needed to tackle the near impossible task of managing China, which was basically the second most devastated country in the entire war (yes it was more devasated then the country that took two A-bombs, only the Soviets probably took more devastation .)

so i think it was kinda mission impossible from the start, though the USA's general lack of experience in dealing with the less developed part of the world up to that point probably didn't help matters obivously, looking back guys like Marshall and Stilwell seems increadiblly naive in the nature of the situation in China. it makes the US understanding of Iraq and Afganistan looks great in comparison. And it really felt to some extend that they sorta left Chang and the KMT out in the cold to cover up their failures in the post war negotiations. (Marshall immediately became SOS after returning from China, and essentially made the US policy of China one to abandon the Nationalist)

Also, Stilwell was one of those old general who's head was mostly stuck in the WW1 period, he had almots no appreciation of the airforce's possibility, and his political actions was ridiculas, Chennault was obviously more forward thinking and understood how to work in the situation better. though obviously he wasn't as high ranking (or even officially ranking at the time) in China.

Mister D
08-16-2012, 11:32 AM
It's interesting to speculate on how China may have developed had the US not abandoned the Nationalists.

RollingWave
08-16-2012, 08:52 PM
well, if somehow the Nationalist won, then I'd guess it would be somewhat better than what actually happened, but not to the point of what already has happened in Taiwan (which was far more built up infrastructure wise, education progress and system aleady in place, and much less regional complexity issue to deal with)

Still, even if the Nationalist won they probably would have needed to play something of a balance act between the Soviets and the US, and the Nationalist's on an idealogical level was in fact heavily Soviet influenced too. (on the socialist aspect at least, Sun Yat San essentially sees... probably correctly ... that a completely fucked up and undereducated country like China at that time neeed to be rebuilt largely by a guiding government, though he does also clearly state that is only a short to medium term thing, the longer term intention was to return to a democratic and mostly liberalized society.)

Mister D
08-17-2012, 07:52 AM
well, if somehow the Nationalist won, then I'd guess it would be somewhat better than what actually happened, but not to the point of what already has happened in Taiwan (which was far more built up infrastructure wise, education progress and system aleady in place, and much less regional complexity issue to deal with)

Still, even if the Nationalist won they probably would have needed to play something of a balance act between the Soviets and the US, and the Nationalist's on an idealogical level was in fact heavily Soviet influenced too. (on the socialist aspect at least, Sun Yat San essentially sees... probably correctly ... that a completely fucked up and undereducated country like China at that time neeed to be rebuilt largely by a guiding government, though he does also clearly state that is only a short to medium term thing, the longer term intention was to return to a democratic and mostly liberalized society.)

I would certainly expect a Nationalist government to have been an authoritarian government for several decades at least. You are also right that a balancing act of some kind would have to have been maintained with the Soviets but it's interesting to consider, for example, how this would have hampered Soviet policy from the outset. The Sino-Soviet split wasn't fully developed until the early 1970s. What would have happened had China never gone Red in the first place? The scale of the conflicts in Indochina are inconceivable without Chinese aid to insurgent groups. Moreover, much Soviet aid traveled through China.

MMC
08-17-2012, 08:00 AM
Well wasn't the Chinese fighting the Russians in small skirmishes over land anyways? Or the Disputes over it's sovereignty. All up and down the Border wasn't it? Granted some may have been over religious issues or eye for eye type issues. But I still thought China claimed all that Land disputed by the Russians.

What would you say relations were like politically as opposed to what was on the ground?

Mister D
08-17-2012, 08:05 AM
Well wasn't the Chinese fighting the Russians in small skirmishes over land anyways? Or the Disputes over it's sovereignty. All up and down the Border wasn't it? Granted some may have been over religious issues or eye for eye type issues. But I still thought China claimed all that Land disputed by the Russians.

What would you say relations were like politically as opposed to what was on the ground?

There had been antagonism between the USSR and the Red Chinese, including some border skirmishes, since WW2 but the communist powers would present a relatively united front vis-à-vis the West and the capitalist world up until the late 1960s-early 1970s.

MMC
08-17-2012, 08:33 AM
There had been antagonism between the USSR and the Red Chinese, including some border skirmishes, since WW2 but the communist powers would present a relatively united front vis-à-vis the West and the capitalist world up until the late 1960s-early 1970s.

My thing over it back then was how much limited info the west was really getting. What was really known as to taking place. Course by Late 70's for me there was no time to study or really pick up any info. Unless I happened to be fortunate enough to meet somebody who was serving and had been in and out of those areas.

Mister D
08-17-2012, 08:35 AM
My thing over it back then was how much limited info the west was really getting. What was really known as to taking place. Course by Late 70's for me there was no time to study or really pick up any info. Unless I happened to be fortunate enough to meet somebody who was serving and had been in and out of those areas.

We tried and were eventually successful in widening the split between the Soviets and the Red Chinese. I'm sure our intelligence services were aware of a lot more than was filtering down to the grunts and civilians.

MMC
08-17-2012, 08:49 AM
I remember back then listening to some Master Sgts talking about just how we would manipulate the Chinese if it came down to an encounter with the Russians. Course Soviets was the term then. Distinctly on Arming them against the Russians. Not to mention I have always felt that the State Dept didn't really ever understand the Chinese.

Back in the 50's most Americans thought all Chinese were the same. That they all spoke the same language etc etc. Generalities known. Those that didnt learned from being around the Chinese.

Mister D
08-17-2012, 08:55 AM
I remember back then listening to some Master Sgts talking about just how we would manipulate the Chinese if it came down to an encounter with the Russians. Course Soviets was the term then. Distinctly on Arming them against the Russians. Not to mention I have always felt that the State Dept didn't really ever understand the Chinese.

Back in the 50's most Americans thought all Chinese were the same. That they all spoke the same language etc etc. Generalities known. Those that didnt learned from being around the Chinese.


China uis certainly far more diverse than is generally known in the West and even though the vast majority are Han Chinese there are significant regional differences from what I understand. Obviously, RW can shed much more llight on this for us.

Mister D
08-17-2012, 08:56 AM
BTW, the Chinese were arming your enemies in Vietnam! You think those AKs were made in Hanoi?

MMC
08-17-2012, 08:59 AM
China uis certainly far more diverse than is generally known in the West and even though the vast majority are Han Chinese there are significant regional differences from what I understand. Obviously, RW can shed much more llight on this for us.


I agree.....myself some knowledge I came across was thru Martial Arts. Especially with Northern Fighting Styles and Southern Styles. Learning that all were not Han and some differences amongst them.

RollingWave
08-17-2012, 11:42 AM
well even in the USA nowaday you can't say a New Yorker is the same thing as a Texan ;) why then would a Beijing guy be the same as a Guang Dong guy then.

regionally speaking China can be roughly divided into a North / South split. though obviously not just that. I think on a basic level today China can roughly be split into...

A. North Eastern Region : centered around Beijing, it's above average developed and obviously the political center. see it as comparible as the Maryland / Virginia region.

B. North West region : centered around the ancient capital of Xian, it's amongst the least developed region nowadays, arid and generally poor (because thousands of years of developement had really drained the region's resource quite badly combined with desertification effects)

C. Manchuria : it has a lot of heavy industry and also very strong agriculture, it's sort of the booming new frontier so to speak .

D. South East : centered around Shanghai, the most developed and wealthy reigon. and also highly politically relevant.

E. South Center : centered around Wu-Han reasonablly developed, but sort of those good at everything but great at nothing .

F. Shichuan : another newly booming region.

G: South : centered around Guangdong, it's amongst the first region to modernize so it's also increadiblly strong economic wise, but politically sort of takes a back seat to some extend.

H: Non-Han regions : namely Tibet / Xinjian / Inner Mongolia, these three are of course each different in their own right, Tibet is probably the least economically developed. while Mongolian and Xinjian are in the process of some crazy resource boom. but obviously there are the minority problems, though it's not quite as bad in inner Mongolia

Mister D
08-17-2012, 11:51 AM
Keep in mind that while the differences between southerners and northerners in the US were meaningful to people only a generation ago our political/economic elite seeks a more homogenized culture (i.e. a cheapened and empty consumer culture) and has achieved a decline in our regional differences. That decline continues apace. Secondly, I did not mean my earlier comments as a criticism of China. Let a thousand flowers bloom! I only meant to say that westerners tend to perceive China has a monolithic bloc. In reality, there is a great deal of social and ethnic conflict in China.

Anyway, thanks! Interesting breakdown.

RollingWave
08-17-2012, 12:00 PM
Well, modern techonology also helps, and also the USA's development span was both shorter and the geographic barriers (especially east of the Rockies) were relatively limited. where as China's regional difference was largely developed over a very long period of time.

China tries to achieve a more monolithic culture as well, which was really what Sun Yat San meant when he listed "nationalism" as the first of his 3 philosophy . he (mostly correctly ) notes that the great difference in China's region is a huge obstical to it's transformation to a modern state. he was pretty much proven right when the regions essentially dissolved into warlords largely based around said regions.

It's nothing new either, in the Song dynasty, amongst the most advanced dynasty in Chinese history, for the longest time the theme of the political struggle was a regional faction war veiled as a process of "reformist vs conservatives" the reality was that it was really a struggle of regional interest, the strongest pusher for "reforms" were the folks from the wealthy south, which had already developed into something akin to a market economy and was in many ways on the verge of industrialization, while the strongest opponent were the folks from the poor North West region which was greatly in decline. not surprisingly everyone else in between were sort of the moderates.

Mister D
08-17-2012, 12:24 PM
No doubt there are several factors contributing to the decline in regional cultures but, IMO, the crucial factor is the desire for the centralization of power that you referred to above. We see it in China, Europe, and in the US which is essentially an outgrowth of western Europe. I'm coming to perceive centralization as an evil. Let me ask you this: do you think China is better thought of as a civilization than as a state? The reality of course is that it is currently both. That said, perhaps there is not one China but several and there is no reason that they cannot exist together? Europe, for example, has always been a society of peoples. Actually, I think Europe is somewhat unique in that regard and centralization has tended to fail (Louis XIV, Hitler, Napoleon, the E.U.). Centralization has been successfully imposed in the east from ancient times onward but must it be?

RollingWave
08-17-2012, 01:23 PM
it is a civilization first obviously, but one that has historically had a strong single state orientation.

China has been centralized forever, there were plenty of good reason to do so back in the days, I think most non-USA states simply don't have the luxury to run a decentralized state. espiecally not until the last 2-3 decades or so. I mean most of us face the practical problem of being invaded. which is all the reason you need to justify a centralized state.

URF8
08-17-2012, 02:40 PM
This is a great thread. Thanks especially to RW.

RollingWave
08-20-2012, 03:21 AM
Meanwhile:

Gu Kai Lai's trail verdict was basically that she's sentence to death...... but suspended, in another words commuted to life in prision instead (with the possibility of parole too) and her sidekick seem to have gotten a much lighter sentence then most people suspected, 9 years (most people figured that he not being a big shot was doomed, but it seems the court decided on that throwing all the blame on the side kick will look really bad too). if only that was the standards of Chinese justice eh ;)

The island dispute seems to be hovering dangerously close to something really bad. after a few Hong Konger snuck on to the islands and were arrested, a group of Japanese congressmen also landed on it and planted the flags and all that . yesterday at least 20 city in China had major anti-Japanese protest, will most of them are actually riots since they robbed a lot of Japanese stores and burned some japanese cars and such. some even holding up posters of declaring war on Japan, it's obvious that the CCP at least turned a blind eye to it (though probably didn't actually incite it.)

Meanwhile, South Korean planted an official carving of the island name on their disputed island with Japan.

(in realistic terms, the PLN doesn't really stand much of a chance against Japan right now in limited conventional naval conflict, note the limited and conventional part though, but obviously going even to that is almost unimaginable).

(The CCP have tried to manipulate nationalism to a degree in recent decades, but I personally think they're playing with fire here, if the current situation is allowed to further escalate they might be forced into a losing war by the very people they're trying to manipulate.)

MMC
08-20-2012, 06:57 AM
http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/ebZhCBbuJT9k1psoGK63Zw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0zNjU7cT04NTt3PTUxMg--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/171c35ec3f82a017180f6a7067005112.jpg

ORDOS, China (AP) — China's Yu Wenxia has been crowned the 2012 Miss World.
This is the second time Miss China has been awarded the title. The last time was in 2007 when Zhang Zilin took the honor.

This is the first time for the Inner Mongolian city of Ordos to host the international beauty pageant.

The city is one of the richest regions in China thanks to its abundant natural resources. It hopes the world event will raise its profile for economic development and tourism.....snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/miss-china-crowned-miss-world-2012-142647165.html

MMC
08-20-2012, 07:36 AM
Meanwhile:

Gu Kai Lai's trail verdict was basically that she's sentence to death...... but suspended, in another words commuted to life in prision instead (with the possibility of parole too) and her sidekick seem to have gotten a much lighter sentence then most people suspected, 9 years (most people figured that he not being a big shot was doomed, but it seems the court decided on that throwing all the blame on the side kick will look really bad too). if only that was the standards of Chinese justice eh ;)

The island dispute seems to be hovering dangerously close to something really bad. after a few Hong Konger snuck on to the islands and were arrested, a group of Japanese congressmen also landed on it and planted the flags and all that . yesterday at least 20 city in China had major anti-Japanese protest, will most of them are actually riots since they robbed a lot of Japanese stores and burned some japanese cars and such. some even holding up posters of declaring war on Japan, it's obvious that the CCP at least turned a blind eye to it (though probably didn't actually incite it.)

Meanwhile, South Korean planted an official carving of the island name on their disputed island with Japan.

(in realistic terms, the PLN doesn't really stand much of a chance against Japan right now in limited conventional naval conflict, note the limited and conventional part though, but obviously going even to that is almost unimaginable).

(The CCP have tried to manipulate nationalism to a degree in recent decades, but I personally think they're playing with fire here, if the current situation is allowed to further escalate they might be forced into a losing war by the very people they're trying to manipulate.)

So do you think they will kill BO behind the scenes now? Plus what about Wang.....now that they had Charged him with treason just for Entering the US Embassy? Personally I think Heywood upped his Ante on the play of money he wanted. Especially if he was trying to move ALL their money and assets out of China. Doncha think? Knowing Millions upon millions were being moved. Why not make a move to blackmail them? I think he saw they really had no way out once even a portion of the cash was moved.

So did you ever tell us about Hu-Jintao Publicly lashing BO? Just how do they go about accepting a Public Lashing.....if it is somebody of Power. Is there any from Bo's line that will see this humilation and mark it for some future revenge?

Mister D
08-20-2012, 08:03 AM
it is a civilization first obviously, but one that has historically had a strong single state orientation.

China has been centralized forever, there were plenty of good reason to do so back in the days, I think most non-USA states simply don't have the luxury to run a decentralized state. espiecally not until the last 2-3 decades or so. I mean most of us face the practical problem of being invaded. which is all the reason you need to justify a centralized state.

Yeah, that's what I've read. The centralized state has long been the predominant mode of China's political existence.

The US has not been a decentralized state since our civil war in the 1860s but I don't think this political model works well in all cultures regardless of the threat of invasion (e.g. Europe). Mind you, when I speak of a centralized state I mean something like a centralized Europe. A continental or civilzational entity not a centralized nation state like France or Germany. This will be a major question of the 21st century since the E.U. is clearly not working and yet the nation state is becoming obsolete.

RollingWave
08-20-2012, 09:19 PM
So do you think they will kill BO behind the scenes now? Plus what about Wang.....now that they had Charged him with treason just for Entering the US Embassy? Personally I think Heywood upped his Ante on the play of money he wanted. Especially if he was trying to move ALL their money and assets out of China. Doncha think? Knowing Millions upon millions were being moved. Why not make a move to blackmail them? I think he saw they really had no way out once even a portion of the cash was moved.

So did you ever tell us about Hu-Jintao Publicly lashing BO? Just how do they go about accepting a Public Lashing.....if it is somebody of Power. Is there any from Bo's line that will see this humilation and mark it for some future revenge?

Seems very very unlikely that they will kill Bo, they didnt' even execute the Gang of 4, who made Bo look like a saint in comparison. Wang seems like he'll also get a lightish sentence, the truth is China hasn't executed a top level official (those in a central government position, or high leevl provincial one) since the Cultural revolution (though they executed lower level onces in droves)

Well Heywood was obviously far from innocent, he was a very shady charactor himself. I'm not sure of the detail really but it seems he over estimate the protection his foriegn identity brings

China is authoritarian, but it's not a dictatorship, there are a ton of political debate behind the doors (And to some extend not behind the doors either). the Bo case more or less reflect this to some extend. since he made a play to the extreme left so to speak. (at least culturally, there's little to suggest that his economic policy were anything close to being commie). Hu and Wen more or less reflect the the main stream Chinese political idealoge theses days, essentially to stay right in the middle, gradually opening up to privatization while maintaining a large degree of state control.

RollingWave
08-20-2012, 09:25 PM
Yeah, that's what I've read. The centralized state has long been the predominant mode of China's political existence.

The US has not been a decentralized state since our civil war in the 1860s but I don't think this political model works well in all cultures regardless of the threat of invasion (e.g. Europe). Mind you, when I speak of a centralized state I mean something like a centralized Europe. A continental or civilzational entity not a centralized nation state like France or Germany. This will be a major question of the 21st century since the E.U. is clearly not working and yet the nation state is becoming obsolete.

Well the US is still considerablly less centralized than most other countries, and I think most of us would agree that the days of having nearly no permenant armies is a pipe dream on a practical level. the US though could to some extend at least afford it, most other can't.

If the EU really went all out centralized then most of their problems wouldn't be that much of a problem today, it's the very fact that they made a rather half arsed approach to this that is the source of a lot of problem. in the US wealth states are systematically bailing out poorer onces on a daily basis to many extend.... but in the EU you need a huge summit and months of quarrelling to do it even once.

Mister D
08-21-2012, 08:26 AM
Well the US is still considerablly less centralized than most other countries, and I think most of us would agree that the days of having nearly no permenant armies is a pipe dream on a practical level. the US though could to some extend at least afford it, most other can't.

If the EU really went all out centralized then most of their problems wouldn't be that much of a problem today, it's the very fact that they made a rather half arsed approach to this that is the source of a lot of problem. in the US wealth states are systematically bailing out poorer onces on a daily basis to many extend.... but in the EU you need a huge summit and months of quarrelling to do it even once.

I don't think the E.U. can go all out centralized. Europe has developed historically in such a way that precludes that kind of uniformity. It is a society of peoples with diverging attachments and customs. What united Europe in the past was Christianity. After the relative decline of Chritstianity, Europe was able to live off residual Christianity for almost two centuries but the world wars shook the naive optimism of the 19th century to its core. The problem with the current E.U., IMO, is that they have tried to unite the different peoples of Europe on the basis of economics and a common market. It just doesn't work. A shared market cannot be what unites a civilization. Indeed, what is Europe? This is a question that needs a real answer before the work can begin.

RollingWave
08-21-2012, 09:35 AM
I don't think the E.U. can go all out centralized. Europe has developed historically in such a way that precludes that kind of uniformity. It is a society of peoples with diverging attachments and customs. What united Europe in the past was Christianity. After the relative decline of Chritstianity, Europe was able to live off residual Christianity for almost two centuries but the world wars shook the naive optimism of the 19th century to its core. The problem with the current E.U., IMO, is that they have tried to unite the different peoples of Europe on the basis of economics and a common market. It just doesn't work. A shared market cannot be what unites a civilization. Indeed, what is Europe? This is a question that needs a real answer before the work can begin.

and even Christianity was hardly a unifying factor, medieval Europe was hardly a peaceful place was it despite everyone being catholic ;)

Yes I don't think Europe can form into a single country either, the concept of nationailty has been developed too steeply already, the only chance of Europe ever becomming one state ended more than 1500 years ago.

Mister D
08-21-2012, 09:45 AM
and even Christianity was hardly a unifying factor, medieval Europe was hardly a peaceful place was it despite everyone being catholic ;)

Yes I don't think Europe can form into a single country either, the concept of nationailty has been developed too steeply already, the only chance of Europe ever becomming one state ended more than 1500 years ago.

I think it made Europe what it was historically (i.e. Christendom). In fact, one could not speak of "Europe" before the advent of Christianity. The Christian religion permeated evey aspect of European life for over a thousand years. Greek and Roman learning are also part of our cultural inheritance but the influence of Christianity permeated all levels of society. It was what gave Europeans a common sense of purpose. Now what? Race? That was an ugly episode. Universal human rights? It's an empty gesture and one whose very definition runs contrary to a European identity. Economics and a common market? Europe needs to find a spiritual center again.

RollingWave
08-21-2012, 10:08 AM
or, they could simply accept the fact of being well off but not powerful small countries and have a good time. the whole problem is in many sense, them not being able to get over the era when small European states dominated the world.

Mister D
08-21-2012, 10:19 AM
or, they could simply accept the fact of being well off but not powerful small countries and have a good time. the whole problem is in many sense, them not being able to get over the era when small European states dominated the world.

That they have certainly tried for the last 50 years but it simply hasn't worked. The end result is that they have spent themselves into a fiscal calamity.

Like it or not, modernity is European and European concepts and methods have been adopted all over the world. Europe has fundamentally changed the world. There is no getting around that. That said, I think Europe's triumphant universalism has done great damage to the integrity of Europe itself. Moreover, Europeans simply have no taste for the power you think they can't get over. Now I understand that there is a great deal of resentment toward Europe's actions on the world stage in the last 500 years and in many cases it's legitimate but the matter I discussed above involves Europe and Europe only. It's an intra-European question. The historical trend does appear to be moving away from the nation state toward supranational entities. That's as true in Europe as it is everywhere else.

MMC
08-21-2012, 10:25 AM
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=I4588090924138727&pid=1.7&w=144&h=144&c=7&rs=1 http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=I4648125971826799&pid=1.7&w=263&h=134&c=7&rs=1

Not to mention I don't think they will like the results of utopia anyways. Just what language do you think everyone will be speaking In the Federation! :undecided:

RollingWave
08-21-2012, 11:14 AM
That they have certainly tried for the last 50 years but it simply hasn't worked. The end result is that they have spent themselves into a fiscal calamity.

Like it or not, modernity is European and European concepts and methods have been adopted all over the world. Europe has fundamentally changed the world. There is no getting around that. That said, I think Europe's triumphant universalism has done great damage to the integrity of Europe itself. Moreover, Europeans simply have no taste for the power you think they can't get over. Now I understand that there is a great deal of resentment toward Europe's actions on the world stage in the last 500 years and in many cases it's legitimate but the matter I discussed above involves Europe and Europe only. It's an intra-European question. The historical trend does appear to be moving away from the nation state toward supranational entities. That's as true in Europe as it is everywhere else.

well, i don't disagree that European value triumpth today, though the development of history is complex. as for the last 50 years, before the end of the cold war I think one can still justify the danger Europe face, but after that outside of possiblly Poland and the Baltic states (which I don't think most EU country consider as Europe anyway) most don't face any realistic threat.

The Current European problem is not actually individual states spending themself to death, if the Euro zone didn't exist, it doesn't matter that much if Greece and Spain implodes (Greece imploded many times in the last 50 years anyway, that hardly mattered for the rest of the European states). and for most other states the debt would be a non issue if they had full control of their currency. the problem now is basically that the Euro removes the possiblity of most fiscal policy to soften an implosion, but most states didn't realize that and still spent like they did before.

RollingWave
08-23-2012, 02:53 AM
a bit of a sad news in Taiwan today as our only Catholic Cardinal died

http://udn.com/NEWS/MEDIA/7314077-2878027.JPG
There has only been a few Cardinals in Chinese catholic history, and most remained hidden due to the political mess in China until their death or exile, Mr. Shan was one of the very few exceptions (the others being the onces in Hong Kong) .

Catholicism isn't big in Taiwan, it probably makes up about less than 1% o the population though the divide between different religion here is generall more limited. Mr. Shan has not been shy about talking and preaching along side other religious figures, such as this picture seen here with the Dalai Lama. It has drawn him a bit of heat even from the Vatican. but it fits the religious reality of Taiwan where pretty much people view all religion as equal. and as such he was highly reversed by all circles regardless of faith, typically cited as amongst the top 3 to 5 most influential religious figure in Taiwan despite the relatively small catholic following.

He was already diagnosed with lung cancer and declared to have only a few months to live .... 6 years ago... so he had joked that the last 6 years was his prolonged fare well tour, he managed to even still hold mass the day he passed away though. so in many ways he was quiet blessed, he was 90 years old.

RollingWave
09-10-2012, 04:50 AM
Well, this is getting ugly, Japan seem to be about to push through with their nationalization of the disputed Diaoyu Islands. despite huge protest and calls to backdown from such provocative moves even by the US.

This was Hu Jin Tao "meeting" the Japanese PM yesterday... I hate to be the guys / girls around that ;) look at the facial expression of their traslator girls heh

http://udn.com/NEWS/MEDIA/7352184-2890899.JPG

To be frank, while China isn't a country with total free speech, it doesn't mean their papers and people don't express their opinions, and sometimes quite strongly (it's just that there is a chance they'll get paid visits by the police for doing that). the PRC tries to manipulate the popular sentiment to a degree but they can not really go against it completely, it's not a abosalute dictatorship afterall, the voice of the people usually reflect a very significant portion within their own party anyway.

Which is what makes this situation scary, Japan has been sort of hijacked by their right wing extremist on this issue and up the ante considerablly in this situation and there is at least some possibility that the outroar from the Chinese nationalistic sentiments are predictable. and given how ugly it has already gotten a few weeks back, there seem to be at least a off chance that the PRC are going to be forced into doing something pretty drastic. possibily worse than the last time around when they essentially barred all rare earth from exporting to Japan.

My father pointed out that if he were the PRC leaders. he "ask" most of the fishing fleets of SE China to "volunteer" (there would be a significant portion of folks that really volunteer for this anyway) to sail out to the islands and just park themself around the islands (with some armed naval escorts and even the full fledge navy) all year round and make routine landing, and dare the Japanese to fire on the fishing vassals. that's obviously a low ball move but something along that line (or worse) seems now within the realm of possibility.

If I were the Obama administration, or even the GOP, I'd be really worreid about this shite right now, if you think going to war with Syria or Iran is bad. what would the #2 and #3 economies in the world fighting each other be?? if they even fire a shot and hit someone you'll probably see a market crash that makes 08 looks like childs play.

RollingWave
09-10-2012, 04:58 AM
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=I4588090924138727&pid=1.7&w=144&h=144&c=7&rs=1 http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=I4648125971826799&pid=1.7&w=263&h=134&c=7&rs=1

Not to mention I don't think they will like the results of utopia anyways. Just what language do you think everyone will be speaking In the Federation! :undecided:

From the POV of a history buff, I'd say they should all go back to old Latin ;) , unlikely though.

Mister D
09-10-2012, 08:00 AM
Well, this is getting ugly, Japan seem to be about to push through with their nationalization of the disputed Diaoyu Islands. despite huge protest and calls to backdown from such provocative moves even by the US.

This was Hu Jin Tao "meeting" the Japanese PM yesterday... I hate to be the guys / girls around that ;) look at the facial expression of their traslator girls heh

http://udn.com/NEWS/MEDIA/7352184-2890899.JPG

To be frank, while China isn't a country with total free speech, it doesn't mean their papers and people don't express their opinions, and sometimes quite strongly (it's just that there is a chance they'll get paid visits by the police for doing that). the PRC tries to manipulate the popular sentiment to a degree but they can not really go against it completely, it's not a abosalute dictatorship afterall, the voice of the people usually reflect a very significant portion within their own party anyway.

Which is what makes this situation scary, Japan has been sort of hijacked by their right wing extremist on this issue and up the ante considerablly in this situation and there is at least some possibility that the outroar from the Chinese nationalistic sentiments are predictable. and given how ugly it has already gotten a few weeks back, there seem to be at least a off chance that the PRC are going to be forced into doing something pretty drastic. possibily worse than the last time around when they essentially barred all rare earth from exporting to Japan.

My father pointed out that if he were the PRC leaders. he "ask" most of the fishing fleets of SE China to "volunteer" (there would be a significant portion of folks that really volunteer for this anyway) to sail out to the islands and just park themself around the islands (with some armed naval escorts and even the full fledge navy) all year round and make routine landing, and dare the Japanese to fire on the fishing vassals. that's obviously a low ball move but something along that line (or worse) seems now within the realm of possibility.

If I were the Obama administration, or even the GOP, I'd be really worreid about this shite right now, if you think going to war with Syria or Iran is bad. what would the #2 and #3 economies in the world fighting each other be?? if they even fire a shot and hit someone you'll probably see a market crash that makes 08 looks like childs play.

No doubt even the threat of a major war in Asia would have world wide repercussions. Chinese foreign policy hasn't exactly endeaered the PRC to her neighbors so I'd imagine she stands alone.

RollingWave
09-10-2012, 08:33 AM
No doubt even the threat of a major war in Asia would have world wide repercussions. Chinese foreign policy hasn't exactly endeaered the PRC to her neighbors so I'd imagine she stands alone.

If it's the South China sea, then maybe, but in this case it's more like the other way aorund, since pretty much all their other maritime neighbors have island dispute with Japan but not with each other.... they have found it quite useful to push their own agenda on those islands that they're disputing at the same time as well (which SK and Russia is.)

of course, the Japan's positionin Diaoyutai is the strongest amongst their disputed isles. since they actually have effective control of it.

Mister D
09-10-2012, 08:49 AM
If it's the South China sea, then maybe, but in this case it's more like the other way aorund, since pretty much all their other maritime neighbors have island dispute with Japan but not with each other.... they have found it quite useful to push their own agenda on those islands that they're disputing at the same time as well (which SK and Russia is.)

of course, the Japan's positionin Diaoyutai is the strongest amongst their disputed isles. since they actually have effective control of it.

Yeah, I was thinking of the South China Sea and China's wrangling with Vietnam and others. Interesting. Do you thin India would try and take advantage of this? Perhaps muscle in on those disputed border regions?

RollingWave
09-10-2012, 10:59 AM
in the S china sea , generally speaking Vietnam / Phillipines / Brunei tries to form a alliance against China, however Taiwan / Singapore is more or less pro PRC claim and those other SE asian state not directly in touch with the sea (like Laos / Cambodia / Burma ) are also likely to be pro China, or at least neutrual

China's border conflict with India is relatively minor, it's over some insanely uninhabitable mountains a few miles either way, the stake is not really the same, and beside it's unrealistic for a serious war to be raged in that sort of terrain anyway.

Mister D
09-10-2012, 11:08 AM
I see.

Doesn't the border controversey point to a larger confrontation over raw materials and influence in Asia? I've read that Indians and Chinese have negative views of each other and that the Chinese frown on India's growing influence in the region.

RollingWave
09-10-2012, 11:29 AM
I see.

Doesn't the border controversey point to a larger confrontation over raw materials and influence in Asia? I've read that Indians and Chinese have negative views of each other and that the Chinese frown on India's growing influence in the region.

To some extend I guess, but China generally don't care that much about India, i mean the Himalayas is about as extreme of a natural geographical land barrier as it's going to get. historically contacts were fairly limited anyway. we know they were there , and some occasional monks go there, and some trade slip through, but it's really relatively limited. historically China probably had about as much contact with India as say... Persia. and maybe even less.

The more tongue in cheek issue for China really is with Russia, since if we wanna get serious about the events of the late 19th and early 20th C then Russia robbed us blind in many sense. but due to the ole Communist ally thing (and the fact that the Russian army is pretty damn scary). the PRC have been pretending that didn't happen more or less, that they didn't let Mongolia go indepedent and prevented a Chinese take back (remember Mongolia was clearly a part of the Qing dynasty... and today more Mongolians live in China than in Mongolia heh.) not to meantion a lot of the outer Manchuria issue... in terms of pure land gained Russia easily grabbed more land from the Qing dynasty than.. um... EVERYONE ELSE COMBINED several times over.

Mister D
09-10-2012, 11:36 AM
Interesting. I know Russia and China have had a complex relationship.

RollingWave
09-12-2012, 03:50 AM
A couple more news.

1. As expected the whole Diaoyutai Purchase fiasco has drawn considerable backlash in the Chinese world, though the PRC government have refrained from anything more serious than verbal condemnation and sending a few patrol ships over.... so far....

2. Congratulation to the American Beef industry as Taiwan as of yesterday has mostly opened up to pretty much full American beef import, despite some worries of the growth stimulous often used by American beef farmers.

3. Partly out of the opening of the beef thing, Hiliary Clinton agreed with our representative to the APEC summit last week (former Vice President Lian Zhang) to restart the TIFA trade agreement talks that had been stalled for many years. as the beef thing was one of the major obstical. (it's true for most Asian country, in Korea, a protesting legislator even blew a freaken tear gas grenade in the legislature because of it.)

4.Another intrigue, as expected soon to be leader of the PRC Xi Ji Ping suddenly fell off the radar over the last couple weeks, starting with a scheduled meeting with Hiliary Clinton, which had some folks speculating at first that it was a protest on the US but then he continue to disappear to miss appointments with a shiteload of world leaders from all over. rumors swirl from everything to back injury (he's been known to swim a rather long distance everyday). to heart attack to assasination attempts to political coup. the PRC hasn't helped make things clear which only fueld speculation further. though it seems the back injury / minor heart attack thing is more plausible.

5. if you wonder why Tokyo mayor started all this mess over the disputed islands it should now be somewhat more obvious as his son is about to run for his party's which will give him a considerable chance to become the next Prime Minister of Japan as the ruling party is both unpopular and splintered. (of coruse, their party isn't popular either. so it's race to see who suck less)

Mister D
09-12-2012, 09:46 AM
We've got tasty beef over here. :wink: Americans do beef well.

You've had some wild legislative meetings on that part of the world. I've seen the occasional brawl on television.

RollingWave
09-12-2012, 12:47 PM
We've got tasty beef over here. :wink: Americans do beef well.

You've had some wild legislative meetings on that part of the world. I've seen the occasional brawl on television.
brawls don't happen as often now as it did in the 80s and 90s, back then the problem really was that the oppositions had very few seats in the legislature (much lower than their realistic popular portion) so the few guys that managed to defy the odds and get in saw whatever they purpose gets overwhelmingly shot down almost always and the system was still rigged against them to a good degree. so they resorted to some rather extreme measures to get attention.

That.. and Koreans are just crazy in general ;)

US beef is good in general, the ranch onces are generally awesome, though it is not a huge secret that the US err.... "leads" the world in growth hermone and similar agent use on factory farmed. which doesn't exactly take an enviornmentalist hippy to be at least slightly worried about.

In Taiwan generally the market break down for beef is like this.

Beef noodles / small slice beef in general : prefer local beef above all else. (Western beef usually don't sell it that way much anyway)

Steak : tight race between US and Aussie beef, Aussie generally seem to hold the middle market, while the US holds both end.

Generally, folks raise concern on US factory farming beef (which is obviously going to be the most significant in terms of quantity.), pasture raised onces are usually viewed as amongst the highest quality though.

Mister D
09-12-2012, 12:52 PM
It was always a Korean parliament! :laugh:

Aussie beef is excellent too. There is a cattle culture there as well. A Croatian mentioned to me a while back that he can't get good lamb here in the US. We do well with beef though.

What's up with the Chinese VP? His absence is generating rumors...

http://news.yahoo.com/china-maintains-silence-xi-rumor-mill-overdrive-042822702.html

RollingWave
09-12-2012, 12:59 PM
It could be something relatively minor like the most commonly heard rumor being a back injury (he is well known to be a daily swimmer, a dude in his late 50s pulling a back muscle while swimming isn't exactly uncommon) or a minor heart attack (again, not exactly the youngest men around here.)

the wilder rumors involve assasination or coup, that would be realllly wild, but that was the case you'd probably see more clear signs of chaos in Beijing than you see now.

So the money is on the former, some sort of health concern that is probably not overly serious. though obviously with the PRC being this secretly the wild cards isn't exactly out of the quesiton either.

Mister D
09-12-2012, 01:36 PM
The article I was reading suggests it's something uninteresting. Probably a minor health problem like you said. It might be in the goverment's interest to be a little more open so that wild rumors don't circulate over trivial things like this.

RollingWave
09-12-2012, 09:06 PM
yeah, that's why the rumors won't die, because if it's something relatively minor shouldn't they just come out openly about it? though the PRC do have a track record of withholdnig high ranker's health issue until well after the fact.

Stuck_In_California
09-14-2012, 07:12 AM
Events in Asia thread...


I saw this in another forum:




The Other Shoe Drops: ChiComm Adventurism

This is sort of breaking right now: http://hotair.com/archives/2012/09/13/uh-oh-chinese-ships-sail-into-japanese-waters-near-disputed-islands/

It's being reported on HotAir via Twitter.

The ChiComms have ships in Japanese territorial waters near some islands that they claim are theirs.

Predictable? Some (commenters at HotAir) are saying that this has been predicted. That it was expected.

I'm guessing that the ChiComms are taking advantage of the Middle East clusterf**k. I mean...why not?


S. Kleine-Ahlbrandt ?@ska_kongshan
MFA: In the next stage, China will administrate the Diaoyu Islands according to Chinese and international law. http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-09/13/c_123713561.htm …
Retweeted by Raymond Pritchett
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52m Raymond Pritchett ?@Galrahn
In Libya people set themselves on fire when upset. In China they burn their own Honda Civic's. Not a joke... http://shanghaiist.com/2012/09/14/man_unfurls_anti-japanese_banners_s.php …
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57m Mark MacKinnon/?? ?@markmackinnon
Taiwan, which also claims islands China and Japan are snarling over, says its coast guard to "raise profile" in area: http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2012/09/14/2003542707 …
Retweeted by Raymond Pritchett
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57m Raymond Pritchett ?@Galrahn
RT @cdrsalamander: BlogPostAlert: Well Played China; Well Played: When the world is looking left ... http://bit.ly/OmhfTS
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1h Emily Kaiser ?@EKaiserReuters
Japan pledges "vigilance and surveillance" in responding to Chinese ships. Sounds like what they say about the yen. http://www.cnbc.com/id/49027473
Retweeted by Raymond Pritchett
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RollingWave
09-14-2012, 09:37 AM
I have posted on that story in the posts above, the islands have been in pretty serious dispute since the 1970s (the key event being that the Americans decided to hand back Okinawa to Japan and these isles were included, the arguement mainly being that the Japanese only began to draw these isles into Okinawa when they started to go on their imperial binge so that was invalid. as the post WW2 settlement was supposedly to revert Japan back to pre 1895 territory.) and this current thing is only the latest of a series of shite that has gone back for a few months already, so it's obviously not "hey look America is in a mess today let's start something new" thing.

Meanwhile, Japan is in dispute of islands with all it's neighbors anyway. in this case they actually effectively hold the island so they have a considerable advantage. however it's the other way around against South Korea and Russia.

It is more of a "hey let's all gang up on Japan at the same time" thing. and this includes several states that are very pro US as well (aka South Korea and Taiwan). so it's more or less a regional dispute. some unsettled busniess left from the Japanese imperial era.

For example. the South Korean President a month ago openly said "the Emperor of Japan should come to Korea to make an open apology for WW2" that's actually a lot more insulting than most of the China / Japan back and forth thing.

Japan's purchase of the isles is sort of an attempt to defuse a possibly even worse situation. where the Mayor of Tokyo would purchase the island. as that guy is well known to be a ultra right revisionist (the type that claims Japan were the victim / righteous crusaders of WW2)

Also, the Chinese have send only coast guard level ships towards the islands. that's been a sort of unspoken mutual agreement between the 3 sides in this dispute (Japan / Taiwan / China) . that everyone only use para-military level ships at best. if someone seriously breaks that we're in trouble. so far. no one has .

Mister D
09-14-2012, 11:11 AM
RW, these "surveillance ships" are not military vessels, right?

---

Six Chinese surveillance ships briefly entered waters near disputed islands claimed by Tokyo and Beijing on Friday, raising the stakes in a long-running territorial row between Asia's two biggest economies. China's foreign ministry said that the ships entered the disputed waters to carry out maritime surveillance and that for the first time China was carrying out a mission of "law enforcement (http://thepoliticalforums.com/#) over its maritime rights".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49027621/ns/world_news-asia_pacific/?ocid=msnhp

RollingWave
09-15-2012, 05:45 AM
yup, they are the equivalent of the coast guards in most other country. armed but not on a military level. all 3 sides in this dispute have essentially refrained themself and only used these ships in the last few decades. and it makes a bit more sense anyway. I mean military ships passing through other people's territorial water happens. (espiecally since this island is really far from the mainlands of Japan.) but coast guards only showup to guard in their own waters.... in theory.

RollingWave
09-16-2012, 04:10 AM
Well Xi Ji Ping who has been missing for the last 12 days or so finally showed up in Beijing, but we probably won't know why he went off the radar in the last few days until much later.

Meanwhile, the whole island dispute thing is getting pretty ugly, protest are again on the rise in China and this time it's getting a bit more nasty as some japanese civilians have been attacked and a hotel with a tour surronded and a rather ugly ensueing clash between civilians and riot police occured there.

And if Japan has her hands full, it doesnt help that the man that was suppose to take over the position of ambassador to China in the next few days DIED in Japan. apparently he suffered a heart attack while walking on the streets... (the current ambassador was one of the few rare civilian to be named ambassador, as he was a famous businessmen and had worked in China for a long time, but he has made some rather.... pro China remarks on these issues so he's getting a ton of heat from back in Japan.)

And of course, leave it to the Mayor of Tokyo to give even more inciting interviews on the issue. but hey everyone realize that it's a huge win for him no matter what, seeing that he's well on his way of getting his son on to the big seat as the next PM of Japan.

Mister D
09-17-2012, 08:07 AM
Oh wow...these things sometimes take on a momentum of their own. The strident nationalism is both populations will affect the supposedly more rational decision making of those in power.

URF8
09-17-2012, 08:46 AM
It would be easy for events to start spiralling out of control. Miscalculation is the handmaiden of war.

RollingWave
09-17-2012, 01:50 PM
yes, but the timing is very nasty too, China is about to change guards. while Japan is going to run a big election soon as well. this whole thing started in part due to the mayor of tokyo want to start some wave to get his son into a better position to be the next PM. and he certainly did that.

meanwhile, Hu is probably at a stage where he can't do anything major anyway. but the fear is that once Xi Ji Ping takes over, newly instated and still lacking in power base, he'll be forced to do something stupid by the hawks in Beijing whom have largely been contained in the last 30+ years.

RollingWave
09-18-2012, 01:47 AM
and of course, it sinks to a new low when one side flies the Japanese imperial flag in their protest
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/attachments/east-asia-pacific/30191d1347742333-heat-turning-up-diaoyutai-senkaku-isles-1347720838_35574.jpg

while the other invoke cultural revolution crap.

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/attachments/east-asia-pacific/30187d1347730814-heat-turning-up-diaoyutai-senkaku-isles-20120915__asasiadisputedislands-p3.jpg

Meanwhile, China is doing what I suspected they would do, aka mobilizing a pretty large fishing fleet to operate around the islands.

Can't say that Taiwan probably won' benifit from both side canceling tourist trips to each other in masses though... and that busniess relationship freeze will also somewhat benifit us.

Still, this reminds me a lot of Taiwan in the 70s and 80s in its final authoritarian stage. the combination of economic developement with a slow to react political reform process, ends up with a great deal of protest both domestically and against foreign powers.

Of course, Taiwan's grips in the 70s were probably more legit, seeing that included everything from being kicked out of the UN and most of the world establishing ties with the PRC and then ending ties with us. this whole island thing began around that time too when Okinawa was returned to Japan along with these rocks. and then were incidents where US military officers shot a man he claimed was tresspassing on his lawn (not exactly the brightest thing to do there, especially given that his diplomatic immunity is debatable outside of the grounds of his station. which means he probably shouldn't be carrying a weapon to begin with given that Taiwan's own domestic laws explicatedly bar people from owning guns.)

RollingWave
09-20-2012, 03:31 AM
In lighter news.

Taiwan announced a new ambassador to the US yesterday that raised some eyebrow

http://www.chinatimes.com/content-images/130501/R20120920S6592050.jpg

Mr. Jin Pu Tsung is well known in Taiwan's political circle, despite never running for office or even really holding a big central government job, he's sometimes called Taiwan's underground President due to his very close tie with the current Prez Ma. the two have been close friends for a long time and are generally rather similar person in age / apperance / hobbie etc... so obviously there's also some (sometimes not so well intentioned) jokes that they must be gay lovers or something ;)

But Mr. Jin has another rather interesting identity.......

He's a royal Manchurian... really! if the Qing dynasty were still in power today he might be the emperor heh. given that he was a closely related cousin to the last Emperor Aisengelo Pu Yi (the Manchus mostly changed their last names after the fall of the Qing dynasty in fear of persecution. the name Jin was rather popular since that was the first Manchurian dynasty name in China.)

Mr. Jin mostly made a name for himself by being the chief strategist of his friend Ma Yin Jieo in his election runs. which he all won including two Presidential race . so some have called him Taiwan's greatest election strategist.

Mister D
09-20-2012, 07:50 AM
Looks pretty young.

How awesome would it be to be related to a royal family? I was atching a documentary about castles or something like that and one of the surviving members of the Hapsburg family still owned the place. :cool2:

RollingWave
09-20-2012, 08:14 AM
well, probably not very awesome in early 20th century China i'd imagine ;)

he's actually 56 years old though, but looks considerablly younger, I guess it help that his hobby is the triathelon....

Mister D
09-20-2012, 08:15 AM
Still kind of cool. I don't care where you are. :cool2:

MMC
09-20-2012, 08:51 AM
Royal Manchurian eh, RW. Maybe they are hoping Obama wins and they can sucker him out of some extra cash. :laugh: Just Joking RW.

How ya been Bro? Good to see ya again! :yo2:

RollingWave
09-20-2012, 11:25 AM
havn't seen you in a while MMC ;)

For us it really doesn't matter who wins. as far as east asia is concerned Dems and GOP in practice all do the same thing anyway. Regan when he was running at one point promised to reverse Carter's decision to break ties with the ROC and even he didn't do that, there's no way that Romney could possibly go beyond that point.

In practice, the US geopolitical operation in East Asia are about as stable as it's going to get, it is unlikely any single President now can do anything to really change that.

RollingWave
09-21-2012, 03:25 AM
Well India is out of my general field of exepertise but this is interesting.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/20/world/asia/india-shopkeeper-protests/index.html?hpt=ias_c2

Indians are holding a huge strike the last few days over the government decision to let the great satan... aka Walmart ;) into India. lost in the ruffle of complaints on China being protectionist and currency manipulating is the fact that India, a state often compared with China, is basically just as protectionist if not more so (and also sucking away almost as many jobs.)

MMC
09-21-2012, 07:01 AM
Well India is out of my general field of exepertise but this is interesting.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/20/world/asia/india-shopkeeper-protests/index.html?hpt=ias_c2

Indians are holding a huge strike the last few days over the government decision to let the great satan... aka Walmart ;) into India. lost in the ruffle of complaints on China being protectionist and currency manipulating is the fact that India, a state often compared with China, is basically just as protectionist if not more so (and also sucking away almost as many jobs.)


Well they are shutting down Internet Service again in India as well. Major Protests still jumping off there today.

RollingWave
09-25-2012, 02:59 AM
Taiwan had a fleet of some 70 fishing boats and some coastguards that sailed to the disputed island with Japan today, they basically reached it's shores (about 2 nauticle miles) but didn't land due to terrible weather. the Japanese coast guards tried to shoo them off and at one point both sides were shooting water cannons at each other.

The situation doesn't look like it's going to really chill anytime soon at this point. China's survellience / coast guard ships slip in and out of the island's water every few days now. and Japan's coastguard is working overtime and concentrating a disportionate amount of assets into these islands. from China / Taiwan's prospective there is a calculation to try and shake Japan's "adminsitrative control" on the islands first, which is Japan's main advantage in this argument so far.

Truth be told, nothing short of grand bargin or war will settle this for good.

Meanwhile, one of the key men in the whole crazy 007 : China never dies saga (aka Bo Xi Lai scandal). his chief deputy and police chief Wang Li Jun (aka the guy that fled to the American embassy before being sieged out). was sentenced to 15 years... a relatively light punishment considering that he could have easily been trialed for treason. this probably means that Bo himself will get off realitvely unscatched (physically at least, politically he's toast).

MMC
09-25-2012, 06:17 AM
Yeah looks like BO wont be executed. Thanks for finalizing that issue RW.

Heard China celebrated Commissioning that Aircraft Carrier they bought from the Russians. Have they managed to at least put a Helicopter on that Ship? I heard they still had no planes on board. Is that True?

RollingWave
09-25-2012, 07:46 AM
yeah, at this point I think they don't have any aircrafts on there yet, mostly just using it as an experimental platform to get a feel of how to actually sail and operate that thing I guess (they say that only the haul remains russian pretty much everything else inside was refited with their own stuff), they're building a couple themself that should be able to launch aircrafts though.

MMC
09-25-2012, 08:16 AM
yeah, at this point I think they don't have any aircrafts on there yet, mostly just using it as an experimental platform to get a feel of how to actually sail and operate that thing I guess (they say that only the haul remains russian pretty much everything else inside was refited with their own stuff), they're building a couple themself that should be able to launch aircrafts though.

Yeah I heard the same on the refit as well as the other two they are working on. So do you think this matter is going to escalate over these Islands? Think it will lead to direct confrontation?

RollingWave
09-25-2012, 08:57 AM
direct confrontation seems highly unlikely, then again, WW1 and 2 really started over some pretty small shit as well. but the more likely outcome is us and China forcing the Japanese to draw a neutural zone on the island area or something to that effect. amusingly, Japan is purposing the same thing for it's contested island against Korea.

MMC
09-25-2012, 09:17 AM
So what have they been saying about all those Muslim Countires that Rioted and Protested Our Embassies, Overseas Schools, US Companies and our Military Installations? Any of those leaders want to hear what Obama has to say on such today? Do they have any concerns over the ME or Iran?

RollingWave
09-25-2012, 09:31 AM
hmmm, at this point we really don't give a shit about the ME, the unfortunate reality is that we don't do much busniess overthere anyway other than oil, and our stereotype on the ME is that rioting is normal and happens all the time there ;) (well that's not much of a stereotype to be honest heh.)

MMC
09-25-2012, 10:18 AM
They didnt think it was a big deal that 23 Countries were expressing themselves at the US? Did any of it headline Asian Times? What about the Muslims in China. Do you know if they protested?

I thought the Agenda at the UN today was the Focus on the ME and a look at that Arab Spring til now?

RollingWave
09-25-2012, 10:53 AM
They didnt think it was a big deal that 23 Countries were expressing themselves at the US? Did any of it headline Asian Times? What about the Muslims in China. Do you know if they protested?

I thought the Agenda at the UN today was the Focus on the ME and a look at that Arab Spring til now?

It's obviously in the news, but other than the day when Mr Stevenson was killed it was not the headline news.

Muslims in China are a very small minority, (like no more than 2-3% if your generous) . and religion in China historically have more or less existed peacefully together. anyway. there are seperatist movement in North Western China of predominantly muslim people, but that really has nothing to do with religion as much as ethnicity and culture (those people are mixed caucasians for the most part, very obviously distinct from other Chinese ethnicities)

Also, muslim protest will probably be shot down by the PRC government in China especially if it happens in North Western Xinjian as Beijing is pretty mindful of those folks acting up for any reason at all. not to meantion, Muslim concentration is in the remotes part of China, it's kind hard to find a embassy there to really protest at ;)

Officially (and practically as well), the PRC is atheist. they pretty much see all religion equally.... (as an annoying problem that can cause problems). Chinese traditional religion is more tied up as part of the culture than a real religion per se. there is some movement towards reviving traditional culture in China nowadays that Marxist docrine are obviously dead and something needs to fill the idealogical void. but the effort have been somewhat clumsy more often than not.

One of the oddities of China even nowadays is that all religious figures have to be state approved. (including Buddhist monks, Muslim Imams and Catholic Priests) . which is why there have been an on going struggle between the Vatican and Beijing since it's founding even till now (the Vatican is one of the few countries left that have no official ties with the PRC, everyone else that doesn't are just small opportunist states who want to rig Taiwan and Beijing for as much money as possible for switching sides.)

RollingWave
09-26-2012, 08:42 PM
Well, in an interesting twist, Abe Shinzō (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Help:Installing_Japanese_character_sets) won the LDP chairmen election yesterday, making him a rather likely candidate as the next Prime minister of Japan.

Those with good memeory might rembmer Mr. Abe , he was the man who succeeded the rather popular Mr. Kouizumi (aka the last Japanese Prime minister that was actually relevant). back in 2006 as the Prime Minister of Japan, however he quit after just 1 year citing health reason and his short term was full of ugly scandals, the most glaring of which was that he had to nominate 3 Agricultural minister in this short span... and all 3 resigned due to corruption investigation (in a year!) and 1 even commited suicide . This ugly scandals and short term mostly overwhelmed whatever other achievments he made during that span.

Abe's not quite as far right as the infamous mayor of Tokyo as a whole, but he's shown streaks of going that way as well (though not as consistently). recently he said he like to build perment facilities on the disputed islands (IMHO, that's highly highly likely to spark military conflict. at the very least bombardment of those facilities). of course, he'd first have to convince voters to vote for someone who basically ran away from the same post 6 years ago to be elected again....

RollingWave
09-29-2012, 12:28 AM
Bo Xi Lai have been officially dimissed from his position and also from the communist party, so it's official that he's politically toast, though what sort of crime charges he face will remain to be seen and probably will still take awhile.

meanwhile, there are some backlash amongst moderates in Japan on the whole recent events noting that the Japanese government's action were as much at fault for this whole mess as the PRC. given that non of them are political figure though, that seems unlikely to do much good.

RollingWave
10-02-2012, 11:57 PM
The US announced that it's waiving Visa requirements for Taiwan tourist starting next month. which probably save everyone going there about 150 bucks and a long wait at the local embassy talking with grumpy Yankees ;)

Tourism to the US has gone down in recent years here since it's quite expensive and since 911 the security and other requirements have become borderline draconian. this may be a step to help revive that.

URF8
10-03-2012, 02:14 AM
The US announced that it's waiving Visa requirements for Taiwan tourist starting next month. which probably save everyone going there about 150 bucks and a long wait at the local embassy talking with grumpy Yankees ;)

Tourism to the US has gone down in recent years here since it's quite expensive and since 911 the security and other requirements have become borderline draconian. this may be a step to help revive that.
Your use of the term "Yankees" is almost nostalgic for me. That term isn't used within America much anymore from what I can observe. Only non-Americans seem to use that term to describe an archtype that no longer really exists.

RollingWave
10-03-2012, 02:37 AM
True true, but if that archtype still exist an embassy worker is usually fairly close ;)

MMC
10-03-2012, 07:44 AM
The US announced that it's waiving Visa requirements for Taiwan tourist starting next month. which probably save everyone going there about 150 bucks and a long wait at the local embassy talking with grumpy Yankees ;)

Tourism to the US has gone down in recent years here since it's quite expensive and since 911 the security and other requirements have become borderline draconian. this may be a step to help revive that.


How would that help with tourism RW? Heard they dealt with BO. So what was the final outcome?

RollingWave
10-04-2012, 12:25 AM
Well, it generally makes going to the US for tourist less of a hassel, since right now the visa and screening reqs are about the highest you'd expect of any country that people might actually consider going to . so obviously any significant "de-regulation" so to speak is welcomed. this is also relavent to us on a political level since there are only about 30 country or so that the US give visa waiver to, and most of them are EU countries too.

But it is still quiet expensive, and the flights are long (these two are rather linked of course). and in recent years there are so many other places that have emerged as legitimate tourist destination that it has really sapped away the US's tourism industry (not helped by the fact that the US inflation rate in the last 2 decade have been above average.)

Still, the US does have some positives to look at, in the last 2 decades a lot more people are now legitimate tourist , 2+ decades ago Chinese tourist would be extremely limited, now they make up one of the largest bulk in the world for example.

Even in Taiwan, Tourism is basically the only real boom industry in the last 5 year, mostly due to the opening of Chinese tourists. lifting previously ridiculas restrictions.

RollingWave
10-05-2012, 02:27 AM
http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/04/kissinger-assails-deplorable-comments-by-both-candidates-on-china/

What ole Henry Kissinger just said on the China issue. I think it's a level headed and very realistic / practicality oriented message, though obviously he ignors the context that both Obama and Romney are slaming China out of election needs and are fairly unlikely to go through with it in practice no matter who wins.



In remarks Wednesday afternoon before the debate, Mr. Kissinger, who has already endorsed Mr. Romney (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/sep/5/romney-for-recovery/), said both candidates had been making irresponsible comments about China during the campaign.
“In each country there are domestic pressures that emphasize disagreements that arise, and we see that in our political campaign, in which both candidates are using language that I find extremely deplorable,” Mr. Kissinger said during a panel discussion at the Woodrow Wilson Center in Washington.
“Both used the word ‘cheat’ as applied to China, in trade,” Mr. Kissinger added, saying that “theoreticians” unschooled in the nuances of the U.S.-China relationship “want to turn this into a crusade.”





Dealing with China, Mr. Kissinger said, has become “the fundamental problem of American foreign policy right now.” But he also suggested there was a certain unanimity about the general U.S. approach: “The most nonpartisan foreign policy in America today is Chinese policy. Eight American administrations since 1971 have pursued essentially the same course.
“I am very hopeful that this will be continued. Relations with China now are good. There are many grievances on both sides but the basic objective is recognized by both sides.”
“I think peace and stability of the world,” Mr. Kissinger concluded, “depends on that.”

Carygrant
10-05-2012, 02:38 AM
Your use of the term "Yankees" is almost nostalgic for me. That term isn't used within America much anymore from what I can observe. Only non-Americans seem to use that term to describe an archtype that no longer really exists.


We use it often because of what rhymes with it .
As for archetype , Tosser is the generic term , one sub division being Wankers , the other being Effing Wankers .

RollingWave
10-14-2012, 07:51 PM
The Phillipine Government has made what is a major first step towards peace with it's main Muslim rebel group, opening the possibility of a new Muslim State.

The costly civil war over nearly 2 decades have claimed many lives and have been a chief source of instability in the country.... so any positive move is good.

RollingWave
10-28-2012, 07:59 PM
In bigger news:

The New York Times threw out an investigative report that claims out going Premier Wen Jia Bao and his family are ridiculasly wealthy, not exactly news here but they gave a figure of 2.7 billion collective wealth (though that includes 3 generation and about a dozen family member) and hints that they played Wen's influence was the primary reason. in a rather unprecedented move Wen's family hired lawyers to fire back at the report, though only the "influence" part.

The article was predictablly shut down by PRC censors in China, though at least 10 MILLION Chinese still snuck past the firewall to see it.

This isn't exactly news per say. Wen's wife is China's most famous Jewlery busniess women is well known, and there's no one in that busniess who can make a name and isn't fabulously wealthy obviously. but Wen's probably amongst the best imaged Chinese senior official right now, as he is almost always at the front of any disastor relief and generally speak with a much more moderate tone than most . it's part of the whole comming power turnover to be sure that this article is thrown out at this particular point.

In lighter news. it should be good news for the US tourism industry that

A. due to the massive decline in Chinese tourist travel to Japan in the wake of the recent territory dispute, everyone else benifits. including the US.

B. in the current tourist trade fair show here in Taiwan, inquiries on US trips rose by a wooping 4x as a result of Taiwan being granted visa waiver status. reaching something of an all time high.

RollingWave
11-09-2012, 04:18 AM
Lighter news again:

How much do you think this monster 60 inch TV should cost?
http://udn.com/NEWS/MEDIA/7487171-2934409.jpg

The answer is no more than 1300 USD, which is a obviously a crazy price. leave it up to Foxconn to find ways to make previously crazy expensive things affordable.

Foxconn announced yesterday in a joint venture with Sharp on this new TV, it also brings a new concept as they are hoping to market it like a cellphone, aka the low price comes with the requirement to bind deals with MOD providers .

From my POV, I think this will sell great in the US, but well totally bomb in Taiwan because......... well most of our houses are too small to fit a 60 inch TV :P

RollingWave
11-15-2012, 01:41 AM
http://s1.djyimg.com/i6/121026093755100383.jpg

http://www.rifatkarlova.com (http://www.rifatkarlova.com)

This guy just became the first foreigner to win Taiwan's equivalent of the Emmis a few days back, a rather interesting person in many ways.

He's Rifat Karlova, a Turkish person that majored in everything you think should have nothing to do with acting or entertainment, i.e politics and that sort of stuff.

But he's carving out quite a career for himself in Taiwan (and also some extend China) in recent years as a host and actor.

Mister D
11-15-2012, 09:09 AM
http://s1.djyimg.com/i6/121026093755100383.jpg

http://www.rifatkarlova.com (http://www.rifatkarlova.com)

This guy just became the first foreigner to win Taiwan's equivalent of the Emmis a few days back, a rather interesting person in many ways.

He's Rifat Karlova, a Turkish person that majored in everything you think should have nothing to do with acting or entertainment, i.e politics and that sort of stuff.

But he's carving out quite a career for himself in Taiwan (and also some extend China) in recent years as a host and actor.

I wuold never have thought he's Turkish. It's interesting how many phenotypes there are in Turkey.

Mister D
11-15-2012, 09:17 AM
The Phillipine Government has made what is a major first step towards peace with it's main Muslim rebel group, opening the possibility of a new Muslim State.

The costly civil war over nearly 2 decades have claimed many lives and have been a chief source of instability in the country.... so any positive move is good.

A partitioned Philippines? Interesting. I see that the predominantly Muslim areas are quite small and are all in the southwest.

RollingWave
12-17-2012, 02:19 AM
Not surprisingly, the ruling Democratic Party of Japan lost yesterday's election, what was somewhat surprising though was how much they lost by, the lost nearly 75%(!!) of their seats. going from a small majority of 200ish seat down to 50.

The old LDP will now return to power, and it looks like Shinzo Abe, the guy that started this whole "1 PM a year" mess nearly 7 years ago will get another crack. Abe's known as a conservative hawk, but during his last brief stint he was actually pragmatic. a few other interesting take though...

1. Abe appears to want to go for the most massive Keneysian policy seen yet, by making a massive drive to lower the Yen (aka print a shite load of them). and expand public spending. it is certainly eye brow raising in a country that already boast one of the worlds' highest public debt (rather total or per capita, albeit almost all of it is internal lending) . it would certainly offer a very interesting test of economic theory at least.

2.the former mayor of Tokyo, the highly controversial Ishihara ran for congress and won easily , and in fact his new party has almost as many seats as the former ruling DPJ now. this certainly means they at least have a significance in the Japanese politics, which is more than a little worrisome to many observers, given their almost neo-nazi like view on the events of the early 20th century.

It looks like a fairly toxic and risky mix going on in Japan at the moment, highly incompetent government that wants to go on a huge spending binge when it's already deeply in debt. on top of all that it seems the ghost of imperial Japan is crawling back more than a little bit on stage as there are now real advocates of rearming Japan and going nuclear (interestingly, the same folks seem to want to shut down all the japanese nuclear power plants, the irony is striking.) I guess on the brighter side of things the extreme elements rarely materialize in any democracy while even in the worst case for Japan, at least breaking the nasty status quo and starting anew has some benifits.

KC
12-17-2012, 02:22 AM
Not surprisingly, the ruling Democratic Party of Japan lost yesterday's election, what was somewhat surprising though was how much they lost by, the lost nearly 75%(!!) of their seats. going from a small majority of 200ish seat down to 50.

The old LDP will now return to power, and it looks like Shinzo Abe, the guy that started this whole "1 PM a year" mess nearly 7 years ago will get another crack. Abe's known as a conservative hawk, but during his last brief stint he was actually pragmatic. a few other interesting take though...

1. Abe appears to want to go for the most massive Keneysian policy seen yet, by making a massive drive to lower the Yen (aka print a shite load of them). and expand public spending. it is certainly eye brow raising in a country that already boast one of the worlds' highest public debt (rather total or per capita, albeit almost all of it is internal lending) . it would certainly offer a very interesting test of economic theory at least.

2.the former mayor of Tokyo, the highly controversial Ishihara ran for congress and won easily , and in fact his new party has almost as many seats as the former ruling DPJ now. this certainly means they at least have a significance in the Japanese politics, which is more than a little worrisome to many observers, given their almost neo-nazi like view on the events of the early 20th century.

So unfortunately more of the same for Japan, huh?

Peter1469
12-17-2012, 02:27 AM
It is funny to see someone printing money to stimulate the economy called conservative.

RollingWave
12-17-2012, 02:27 AM
well maybe not, if they really do ..

A. change their consititution on their military.. that's obviously a huge game changer (unlikely for the better though)

B. completely go off nuclear right now , also a big game changer (not in a good way for their short term economy, though great news for me since I work in renewable energy ;))

C. really do go for a Keneysian wet dream of a policy... either way of the outcome would certainly not be the status quo.

It is more interesting than it has been in a while actually.

RollingWave
12-17-2012, 02:28 AM
It is funny to see someone printing money to stimulate the economy called conservative.

Well, their conservatives mostly has to do with foreign policy I guess. conservatives usually means.

A. anti China
B. pro US bases
C. want to remilitarize more or less.

etc.. in japan. though these guys also tend to be more pro-business / anti taxes to some extend.

KC
12-17-2012, 02:33 AM
Well, their conservatives mostly has to do with foreign policy I guess. conservatives usually means.

A. anti China
B. pro US bases
C. want to remilitarize more or less.

etc.. in japan. though these guys also tend to be more pro-business / anti taxes to some extend.

From what I understand Japanese politics has a lot to do with consensus, and the LDP were a huge factor in maintaining the status quo, or at least until the recent DJP shakeup.

Junichiro Koizumi was a conservative LDP guy though too, and he's everyone's favorite Japanese PM.

RollingWave
12-17-2012, 03:07 AM
well, compare to the last few years Koizumi was obviously a huge upgrade, he didn't have great relationship with China though, and some of the issues the DPJ faced / attempted to tackle were either very unfortunate (like the tsunami) or controversial (like sales taxes and US bases.) or left over issue that remained unaddressed for decades. this is the oddity here, there is a lot of self contradiction in Japan. and the case of the bases is really a lot more complex than the US being stationed in Japan, for one thing, that most of it is based in Okinawa is one of the greatest source of grief, since Okinawa was in fact, a very much independent state and culture from Japan until their run of imperialism. and yet it took the most catastrophic damage during WW2 (it had by FAR the highest death per capita of any places in Japan, including Hiroshima) . and now has to play host to the US bases to defend the rest of Japan.

The truth is, if Japan's economy really tanks big time (it has been stagnant for decades but not really tanking, though it is hovering dangerously close to that.) Okinawa Independence movement may actually reemerge with a vengence (see Scotland / Catalonia etc..) and I think there' a decent chance of that happening in our life time. and then we'll have a whole nother round of geopolitical head ach... since for example, China would almost surely support an independent Okinawa for many reasons. (historical ties, elbowing Japan and the US in general.) and South Korea probably would like to see that happen as well.

Peter1469
12-17-2012, 04:24 PM
Well, their conservatives mostly has to do with foreign policy I guess. conservatives usually means.

A. anti China
B. pro US bases
C. want to remilitarize more or less.

etc.. in japan. though these guys also tend to be more pro-business / anti taxes to some extend.

That is good- now everyone knows the context of conservative in this discussion.

Ivan88
12-17-2012, 07:53 PM
1124 An amazing guy. He speaks Chinese very well, and exhibits a fun spirit.1125

1126

http://i.youku.com/u/id_UMTk5MjI1ODEy

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDczNzE2MDY0.html

RollingWave
12-17-2012, 08:02 PM
amusingly, he actually worked at the same company I'm at now though quite a few years earlier.

he's quite something, he was studying political science in Taiwan IIRC, but also did late night stand ups at clubs here (pretty rare in Taiwan), and seem to have accidentally stumbled into the show business when a recruiter picked him up on the streets for a role in a documentary here on one of Taiwan's most famous early missionary, the Scottish Canadian George Leslie Mackay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Leslie_Mackay)

Ivan88
12-17-2012, 08:09 PM
amusingly, he actually worked at the same company I'm at now though quite a few years earlier.

he's quite something, he was studying political science in Taiwan IIRC, but also did late night stand ups at clubs here (pretty rare in Taiwan), and seem to have accidentally stumbled into the show business when a recruiter picked him up on the streets for a role in a documentary here on one of Taiwan's most famous early missionary, the Scottish Canadian George Leslie Mackay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Leslie_Mackay)

Is RollingWave in Taiwan?
1127

RollingWave
12-17-2012, 08:20 PM
given that my avatar is a ROC flag, and I list my location in Taiwan... ;)

RollingWave
12-18-2012, 09:21 PM
A few days after Japan's election, Korea heads to the polls today as well, an interesting fight as it is very close, and also the backgrounds of the candidates are interesting. The most famous would be Ms. Park Geun Hye. Ms. Park is the daughter of the late South Korean dictator Park Chung Hee who ruled Korea with an iron fist in the 60s and 70s, both he and his wife were assasinated in seperate attempts, so Ms. Park certainly have grown up in the center of Korean politics and have seen a good deal of personal tragedy through her life.

The other candidate is Moon Ja In, who was a rights lawyer that was imprisoned during the Park era. so it's certainly settling some old scores . Moon has the wider support of the younger folks while Park's supporter is primarily the 40 and above .

Policy wise both candidates are fairly similar though.

RollingWave
12-19-2012, 09:45 PM
Park won, becoming the first female (and unmarried) leader of East Asia.

She certainly lived through interesting times to say the least. after her mother was killed she had acted as the defecto first lady for her father for several years at a fairly young age until his father's own assassination. South Korea is reaching a cross road of it's own, as it has achieved great economic strides but came at the cost of a lot of things, will they affirm that to be the final road they take or will they start changing ? we'll see.

RollingWave
12-26-2012, 08:36 PM
Few updates:

As expected, Shinzo Abe is now the new PM of Japan, which marks the 7th PM in less then 7 year... starting from... ummm.. Shinzo Abe 7 years ago.

Abe and the LDP has said that they want to depreciate the Yen to the 90:1 ish range to the dollar (right now it's about 80:1).

Good news(?) for the US, as China appears to be making a more serious crack down on corrupted officials, many are doing their best to send their money abroad, and the US is often a final destination of said money. that has been happening for quite a while now, but expect a high tide in the next year.

China opens the longest high speed rail way in the world a few days back. though going from one end to the other (Beijing to Guangdong) is actually almost as expensive as a plane and about 3 times slower, however for shorter runs it does beat out airplanes due to waiting time.

Mister D
12-26-2012, 08:41 PM
Few updates:

As expected, Shinzo Abe is now the new PM of Japan, which marks the 7th PM in less then 7 year... starting from... ummm.. Shinzo Abe 7 years ago.

Abe and the LDP has said that they want to depreciate the Yen to the 90:1 ish range to the dollar (right now it's about 80:1).

Good news(?) for the US, as China appears to be making a more serious crack down on corrupted officials, many are doing their best to send their money abroad, and the US is often a final destination of said money. that has been happening for quite a while now, but expect a high tide in the next year.

China opens the longest high speed rail way in the world a few days back. though going from one end to the other (Beijing to Guangdong) is actually almost as expensive as a plane and about 3 times slower, however for shorter runs it does beat out airplanes due to waiting time.

What's the attraction of the high speed then?

RollingWave
12-26-2012, 08:58 PM
It's useful in shorter runs. for example, the highspeed train here in Taiwan from Taipei to Gaoshung (our #1 and 2 city respectively) has basically put the domestic plane industry out of business, because they are faster once you account for the waiting time for planes and also that airfields are usually further away from the city center. and the price is lower for that sort of distance.

But further out planes begin to win.

So for example, if the US have one running from NY to say... Miami (a fairly comparable distance to the China one) it would be pretty cost effective to take it from NY to Philly / DC, but not so much to Atlanta, and certainly not to Miami directly.

Mister D
12-26-2012, 09:05 PM
It's useful in shorter runs. for example, the highspeed train here in Taiwan from Taipei to Gaoshung (our #1 and 2 city respectively) has basically put the domestic plane industry out of business, because they are faster once you account for the waiting time for planes and also that airfields are usually further away from the city center. and the price is lower for that sort of distance.

But further out planes begin to win.

So for example, if the US have one running from NY to say... Miami (a fairly comparable distance to the China one) it would be pretty cost effective to take it from NY to Philly / DC, but not so much to Atalanta, and certainly not to Miami directly.

NY to Philly is only a couple hours by regular train. High speed to DC would be interesting. I'd be a big supporter of high speed rail if it was significantly cheaper than a flight. When I fly I really have to shop around and play with the dates because the ticket prices are sometimes outrageous. Sitting on a train isn't nearly as uncomfortable and to save money I wouldn't mind the extra time. I guess our geography plays a big role. European countries, like Taiwan, are small enough that high speed rail makes a lot of sense.

RollingWave
12-26-2012, 10:14 PM
yeah, geography is an issue, the big cities in the US is usually a lot more spaced out which makes high speed train somewhat less attractive. In Taiwan the main issue is everything between the 2 major city is pretty highly populated too so there's a lot of major stops in between, the fastest normal train between the 2 city takes a bit more than 4 hours because of that, where as the high speed train is at most 2 hour (the once with only 1 stop will be there in 1:30)

price of tickets for the 4 hour trip is about 28 bucks USD, high speed train is about 47.

plane ticket is about 70 bucks, flight itself is 40 min but once accounting for the wait time (there's usually only 3 flights a day there, the high speed train units at least 3 an hour and usually more like 6) . and the distances of airport, it is likely to take LONGER to fly for nearly twice the money. so it's no wonder that passenger flight between the two went from 1.3 million passenger before the highspeed opened to ....25k this year before the last passanger company decided to stop that route (from as much as 7 company at it's height).

RollingWave
01-01-2013, 10:02 PM
Happy new year everyone, here's a clip from Taiwan's famous new year attraction this year, the Taipei 101 firework


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jge5LmbUnI

RollingWave
01-11-2013, 02:34 AM
The on going struggle for the island in the east sea too another (unfortunate ) step yesterday, since the most recent round of debacle China has gradually pushed their military and paramilitary ship patrol into the waters close to the islands in question, now they're doing it by air too. Japanese air force had to take several emergency takeoffs over the last few days as Chinese warplane appear to be heading on a strait path towards the islands.

One report even says that the Japanese fired off warning flares on the Chinese planes whom turned back before actually crossing into Japanese air space.

These sort of things are problematic, in the south China sea where many claims overlap each other it's more of a free for all and this sort of thing happens a lot (the warning flare part aside, though it was in one such incident that a US plane crashed with a Chinese one a few years back.) But China have never really tested the Japanese like this before, as most assumed that the presence of the USAF would have deterred them from such tactics, but apparently not. (for what it's worth, Japan and Korea do this quite a bit too over their own disputed islands. )

For China, the realistic goal in the shorter run is probably to force Japan and the UN/ US to acknowledge that the islands in question really is a disputed island, which so far they have not (especially Japan) .

RollingWave
01-21-2013, 08:08 PM
Well, Japan has made big moves with a mega stimulus package, which has won the praise of Paul Krugman, I guess it would be interesting to see the ultimate Kenysian test being done on someone else dim, though given the suffocating stagnation Japan has taken over the years, almost any major change is welcome.

Still, the Abe administration seem to be doing a lot of the same stupid things that made him resign last time around, this time his deputy minister (and ex-minister himself) made the interesting remark (in a public speech) that the best way to solve Japan's pension issue is if "old and sick people die quicker" ................... well that's not technically wrong, but it made you wonder how anyone in the ring of a big country's national politics can be dumb enough to say something like that.

Meanwhile, Yukio Hatoyama, the recent DPJ priminister a few years back, visited Nanjing a couple days ago and became the first former high ranking Japanese official to admit that there really was a dispute around the Diayu Islands, this lead to the LDP to call him a traitor, so all's rosy in east Asia :rollseyes:

Peter1469
01-21-2013, 08:26 PM
Japan has been stagnate for two decades. Following Paul's advice....

RollingWave
01-21-2013, 08:59 PM
Well, there was one thing that was obviously wrong on Krugman's argument of Japan's lost decade, he argued that it was a liquidity trap because Japanese people saved too much which in terms made banks too big to fail and in turn made a lot of corporations too big to fail as well... it's quite clear now that Banks often become too big to fail regardless of peoples saving ;)

Peter1469
01-21-2013, 09:12 PM
Right. He is focused on the wrong stuff. Savings are actually good for an economy.

RollingWave
01-21-2013, 09:31 PM
I think that like most other things in the world , too much or too little of anything isn't going to be good. Too much saving tend to have a issue with that it means the consumer market may be under utilized, and at the end of the day someone's gotta be a buyer for something to sell. and an economy with too few end user is going to have problems. or in Japan's case, where everyone spend on limited durable goods (aka land). that is also a issue.

But Krugman's approach is not uncommon for economist (or many other forms of academic) to stake out a particular aspect of a complex subject and then try to expand everyone around it.. generally not good when actually put into the real world IMHO, but pretty much all academics do it.

RollingWave
02-01-2013, 03:37 AM
Well, the PM of Japan Shinzo Abe supposedly said while in Parliment today that he will consider putting a permenent station on the disputed islands with China.

If that really go through, expect real fighting for sure. keep eye on this potential, if it's anywhere near materialising short all stocks and stock and go all in for gold .

(I think the USA would sooner assassinate Abe then let him do that though)

Mister D
02-01-2013, 09:41 AM
A major war in Asia...:shocked:

I expect all this bluster to come to nothing but sometimes these things take on a momentum of their own.

ThirdTerm
02-01-2013, 05:08 PM
The US is obliged to protect those disputed islands in an event of a Chinese invasion under the mutual defence treaty dates back to the 1950s and it has been confirmed by the State Department that America recognises that those islands are under Japanese administration and it opposes any Chinese attempts to undermine it and China is unlikely to take any provocative moves that could lead to war as long as America maintains this stance to keep China in check.



As I’ve said many times before, although the United States does not take a position on the ultimate sovereignty of the islands, we acknowledge they are under the administration of Japan and we oppose any unilateral actions that would seek to undermine Japanese administration and we urge all parties to take steps to prevent incidents and manage disagreements through peaceful means.
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2013/01/203050.htm

roadmaster
02-01-2013, 05:11 PM
And I think we are only obligated to the USA.

RollingWave
02-02-2013, 12:54 AM
The US is obliged to protect those disputed islands in an event of a Chinese invasion under the mutual defence treaty dates back to the 1950s and it has been confirmed by the State Department that America recognises that those islands are under Japanese administration and it opposes any Chinese attempts to undermine it and China is unlikely to take any provocative moves that could lead to war as long as America maintains this stance to keep China in check.
The problem here is that this is the sort of deal that end up leading to WW1, though the US is obviously a much bigger player of the two.

The other problem with this is that more or less, Japan is baiting China to attack them.

Peter1469
02-02-2013, 01:29 AM
The US is obliged to protect those disputed islands in an event of a Chinese invasion under the mutual defence treaty dates back to the 1950s and it has been confirmed by the State Department that America recognises that those islands are under Japanese administration and it opposes any Chinese attempts to undermine it and China is unlikely to take any provocative moves that could lead to war as long as America maintains this stance to keep China in check.


The treaty obligations don't require the waging of total war. We can make a show at fulfilling our treaty obligations while focusing on our national security interests- which do not include getting into a land war in China, or risking our fleet off its shores.

RollingWave
02-03-2013, 07:39 PM
Not to mention, China has show zero intention of actually invading Japan, invoking a full war because of fighting over uninhabited rock is obvious overkill.

Peter1469
02-03-2013, 08:39 PM
Not to mention, China has show zero intention of actually invading Japan, invoking a full war because of fighting over uninhabited rock is obvious overkill.

Right. It is just geopolitics and scrabbling for crumbs.

RollingWave
02-05-2013, 01:29 AM
http://cnnphotos.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/04/the-other-afghanistan/?hpt=ias_t3

A nice series of photos of Afghanistan, brings a different perspective from the common theme at least.

RollingWave
02-08-2013, 04:48 AM
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65754000/jpg/_65754555_65754554.jpg
Japanese Protester protesting against the latest intrusion of Russian planes into Japanese airspace, I'm not sure if they're going to get a lot of good wills from abroad by going all Banzai though...

Meanwhile, the Japanese claim that a Chinese ship locked on weapon system radars on their coastguard patrol ship a couple days back, if true that is a recipe for disaster , though China deny that accusation.

Seeing that it would probably be the worst thing ever if the US have to fight a war against China FOR Japan, I'd think it wouldn't be a bad idea to pressure the hell of the Japanese to restraint at all cost.

RollingWave
03-28-2013, 03:13 AM
http://travel.cnn.com/tourists-camera-found-taiwan-after-5-years-356051?hpt=hp_c4

Fun story, some lady in Georgia lost a underwater camera on a trip in Maui 5 years ago, someone found it in Taiwan last week, and the local airline is offering her a round trip ticket to pick it up.

RollingWave
03-28-2013, 03:16 AM
In other news, Taiwan's nuclear debate is heating up, no.. not nuclear weapons. the Fukushima disaster caused the ongoing construction of the next nuclear power plant to be under fire, the ruling party is going to put it to referendum, though the ramification of this is pretty serious, the other nuclear power plants in Taiwan is over 30 years old and going to be decommissioned soon. assuming we don't build this one and decommission those on time, Taiwan's electricity bill is probably going to suffer a massive hike, something that the anti nuclear folks seem to be downplaying to a completely irrational extend.

Mister D
03-28-2013, 11:07 AM
It's hard to argue against nuclear power when you're also arguing against pollution and waste.

Captain Obvious
03-28-2013, 05:30 PM
And demand for electricity.

Mister D
03-28-2013, 06:30 PM
And demand for electricity.

Right.

RollingWave
03-28-2013, 07:45 PM
It's hard to argue against nuclear power when you're also arguing against pollution and waste.
I guess there is a rational in the sense that.

1. Taiwan is one of the most natural disaster prone zone in the world, it's got more earthquake on average than say... Los Angelos, and it has at least half a dozen typhoon a year.

2. Taiwan is super super densely populated, meaning that if the worst case happens, a huge portion of the population will be effected.

Still yeah, despite the fact that Taiwan has virtually 0 oil and only a tiny bit of natural gas, AND no river worth a damn for electricity purpose, we have around the same $ per KW cost as the US average, while not all of that is due to Nuclear (it also have to do with government monopoly, being on one of the busiest shipping lanes, and limited distance to transfer power) but it's hard to see how denuclearizing quickly will not have an ugly averse effect to that.

Mister D
03-28-2013, 07:53 PM
I guess there is a rational in the sense that.

1. Taiwan is one of the most natural disaster prone zone in the world, it's got more earthquake on average than say... Los Angelos, and it has at least half a dozen typhoon a year.

2. Taiwan is super super densely populated, meaning that if the worst case happens, a huge portion of the population will be effected.

Still yeah, despite the fact that Taiwan has virtually 0 oil and only a tiny bit of natural gas, AND no river worth a damn for electricity purpose, we have around the same $ per KW cost as the US average, while not all of that is due to Nuclear (it also have to do with government monopoly, being on one of the busiest shipping lanes, and limited distance to transfer power) but it's hard to see how denuclearizing quickly will not have an ugly averse effect to that.

Those are good points. I come from a huge country in geographic terms so I didn't even think of that.

It sounds to me like you don't really have many short term options.

RollingWave
03-28-2013, 10:30 PM
yeah, which is the point, in a vacuum, probably 100% of the folks vote against nuclear power, but it's not a vacuum, we have little alternatives and if vote goes down like that also almost no window of time to make up for the difference. forget about the inefficiency of wind/ solar, even if we want we don't have the land mass to do large scale wind / solar power.

RollingWave
05-12-2013, 06:36 AM
A recent major events with potential severe consequences going forward.

The Philippines is 2 days ago had a patrol boat gun down a Taiwanese fishing boat, killing one of the crew (the owner of the boat), the boat was operating in overlapping waters of the 2 sides' territorial water.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Ph_Territorial_Map.png/220px-Ph_Territorial_Map.png

As you can see, this doesn't make much sense from Taiwan's POV, as we're right next the the northern end of this claim, so in reality there's a overlapping part . unfortunatly the Philippines have been among the most aggressive (to put it kindly) in "reinforcing" such claims, often confiscating fishing ships from China or Taiwan for high fines (aka, ransom.)

Taiwan, due to it's problematic status internationally, have long tried to keep this under the rug, but this latest event have made it almost impossible, as all signs seem to suggest the Philippine coast guard essentially chased the fishing boat out of their territorial water (aka into ours.) and gunned them down with heavy machine gun. the chase lasted over at least 3 hour, so .... it's pretty hard to see what sort of real argument can be presented here.

The Philippine government have so far been very strong in saying that it's not their fault, that somehow this was the result of The fishing ship ramming them (which totally explain the 3 hour chase part yes.) . part of this may be that they're schedule to vote tomorrow, but this sort of reaction have been nothing new from their side.

Taiwan has, in a rare turn from the norm, declared an ultimatum on the Philippines to provide a formal apology and reimbursment within 72 hour, or face at the very least, the withdraw of all official ties and the freezing of all Philippino workers in Taiwan ( they are Taiwan's 3rd largest source of foreign labor, with over 80 thousand working here at least.) and potentially the shutdown of all trade. In reality, we probably will park our navy in that water if we don't get a positive response soon. (the most insane thing of all this is that, the Philippines have virtually no navy, Taiwan can realistically destroy their entire navy with 1 ship.)

This is going to get ugly, China obviously also made a fuss on this, which further complicates the situation.

But the truth is , Taiwan's been on the butt end of one too many of these crap that at some point it's gotta end.

Mister D
05-12-2013, 09:44 AM
I ca only see the Filipinos backing down on this but you never know.

RollingWave
05-15-2013, 05:59 AM
I ca only see the Filipinos backing down on this but you never know.

Not looking good at all, we have already expelled their ambassador, recalled ours, and declared the Philippines a no travel zone (code red). this is like... basically 1 step away from declaring war.

Oh right we're also holding an exercise with 1 ship from every major battle fleet we have tomorrow in that disputed water. aka enough ships to blockade Manila if we really want to.

How it ended up this bad? well the Philippines have been playing some diplomatic games with us in the last 24 hours, first saying they'll apologize, they back track, then try to haggle, then apologize.... to the victim (in total contradiction to standard international diplomacy) . I'd think the only thing you can do to make this situation worse is to try to play that whole "Taiwan isn't a country" thing at a point like this, unfortunately this seem to be exactly what they're doing.

Our government in on the hot seat here, the President , rightly or wrongly (mostly wrongly) is seen as a weak buffoon at times though he has made plenty of breakthrough negotiation with China, but yeah.. given that he's saddled with that image, and that the press and everyone is playing this up as the #1 thing, he has zero room to back down unilaterally.

The Philippines seem to be making massive misjudgment of the severity of the situation here. and unfortunately so have the US, heh CNN hasn't even noticed this story yet. and the State department made some vague remarks on this.

The US have some personal in the Philippines, though no official military once, but it doesn't take a geopolitical academic to see that if this goes further the US can't stay completely out of it.

RollingWave
05-20-2013, 04:25 AM
This rift between Taiwan and the Philippines isn't getting better.

The Philippines state department is now saying they'll consider EVACUATING all Philippine citizens in Taiwan (there may be as many as 150K of them, on an island smaller than Massachusetts.) , while Taiwan is likely to declare the conflicting EEZ between the two side high risk waters (aka, on par with Somalian coast, a not so subtle jab that we see the Philippine Coastguards as pirates.) which would allow the ships working there to either arm them self or bring armed escorts (Taiwan is a full gun ban country BTW, which makes this a remarkable leap.) And is probably going to cancel the previous limits we set on our own naval / coastal patrol in the EEZ, which means we're gonna patrol right off the coast of the main Philippine island of Luzon if we want to. and probably start arresting Philippine Fishing boats in retaliation.

All of these are pretty scary shit, the Philippines have nearly 10 MILLION folks working abroad, and they are obviously often the subject of less than optimal treatment in the various countries (true for almost all major worker exporting countries.), so the Philippine press have been playing up some incident in Taiwan where Filipino workers gets hurt or attacked or what not, certainly those things happen and are less than ideal, though by similar standards Taiwan is certainly nowhere near the bottom half of countries that really REALLY mistreat these workers (hint, Saudi Arabia is among the worst, because most workers there are female house maids.)

Logically sides should start talking more sense soon instead of letting this spiral towards war (which it is obviously in a trajectory towards.) but there hasn't been much signs of this yet. the two sides' investigation so far presents COMPLETE OPPOSITE version of what happened. with the Philippines claiming it was self defense on ships working inside their waters, while the Taiwan side have concluded so far that the ship was neither working, nor in their territorial waters, nor attempted to ram the PCG boat. one side is obviously lying, but it's hard to argue with a small boat that has 50 bullet holes in it. and the Philippines have presented almost zippo scientific evidence so far, with their claim based entirely on testimony of the crew.

This is getting to a pretty dangerous point.

Peter1469
05-20-2013, 05:35 AM
I imagine China is backing the Philippines. I hope the US stays out of it.

RollingWave
05-20-2013, 06:01 AM
I imagine China is backing the Philippines. I hope the US stays out of it.

well no both the US and China have been ambiguous at best, probably precisely because of the concern you raise, that them backing any side obviously would trigger the other side to step in, turning this from a territorial dispute into a full blown regional one.

The State department have issue the standard "we're sorry someone got killed, and won't get ahead of our self until full investigation, and hope both side restrain them self" type of politically correct statement. while China have made a mild condemnation of the Philippines (because this shit happens to Chinese boat as well, and there was that whole incident last year where a Hong Kong bus was hijacked in the Philippines and most of the hostage ending up dead in the hands of the Philippine Swat team, whom managed to kill more hostage than kidnappers, and hell, the resulting investigation seem to find that almost all of them died from the SWAT team and not the hostage :facepalm