Should a jew

[iustitia]

have to bake a swastika cake for a neo-nazi customer?

[Hal Jordan]

have to bake a swastika cake for a neo-nazi customer?

No.

[Green Arrow]

No.

But I'd totally do it.

[Mister D]

https://psbartlett.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/tumbleweed.jpg

[Blackrook]

It's not based on religion. I'm not Jewish and I wouldn't bake a Nazi cake either. I have a First Amendment right not to be forced into expressing an idea I disagree with.

So, if a customer wants a wedding cake with two plastic men on top, that's also a First Amendment violation to force the baker to do it.

[Redrose]

Yes, he must bake it, but who's to know what little surprizes he can bake into it. Paybacks are a bitch...or food poisoning.

[Chris]

https://psbartlett.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/tumbleweed.jpg




:tumbleweed:

[The Xl]

Nope.

[Tahuyaman]

have to bake a swastika cake for a neo-nazi customer?

If a liberal is consistent they would say yes. But, I'll bet the average liberal will draw the line when Christian Polynesian sues the Muslim catering service for refusing to cook the pig for their luau.

[Don]

Several "gay" bakeries have already been exposed for saying they wouldn't cater to anyone who wanted anti gay messages on their products. They were quite nasty about it too.

[zelmo1234]

If a liberal is consistent they would say yes. But, I'll bet the average liberal will draw the line when Christian Polynesian sues the Muslim catering service for refusing to cook the pig for their luau.

We know they are not going to mess with Islam, that gets dangerous.

[zelmo1234]

I will stay consistent and Say NO they should not be forced to provide services

It is just wrong and if the Nazi is butt hurt, so be it!

[Tahuyaman]

We know they are not going to mess with Islam, that gets dangerous.

It is true that the left is quite willing to bend over and grab their ankles where Islam is concerned.

[donttread]

have to bake a swastika cake for a neo-nazi customer?

If you own and operate your business without government support of any kind you should be able to serve and not serve whom you wish. Since most people are in business to make money , not political statements the practice will pretty much take care of itself. However, I would concede that religious organizations who practice such discrimination should lose their tax free status for that business.

[Peter1469]

Under the logic of the hard left stomping their feet over pizza and cakes- yes. For all non-fascists, no.

[Blackrook]

The radicals in the homosexual rights movement have literally gone bat-shit crazy in their quest for revenge against Christians.

They want payback for all those years when they had to stay in the closet.

This isn't about homosexual rights, it's about scorching the earth and leaving no Christian standing.

[Chris]

The answer to "Should a jew have to bake a swastika cake for a neo-nazi?" should be the same as "Should a neonazi have to bake a cake with star of David for a Jew?" if we're to adhere to rule of law.

[Hal Jordan]

The answer to "Should a jew have to bake a swastika cake for a neo-nazi?" should be the same as "Should a neonazi have to bake a cake with star of David for a Jew?" if we're to adhere to rule of law.

And my answer remains the same.

[del]

The radicals in the homosexual rights movement have literally gone bat-shit crazy in their quest for revenge against Christians.

They want payback for all those years when they had to stay in the closet.

This isn't about homosexual rights, it's about scorching the earth and leaving no Christian standing.

:rofl:

[del]

yes, they should

[Dr. Who]

have to bake a swastika cake for a neo-nazi customer?
No because no one can dictate the decorations that a cake shop does. A cake shop can have a catalog of decorations and stick to it. If a customer doesn't find what they want in the catalog, they can go elsewhere. The cake shop is not refusing service, but yet not acceding to making a decoration that is not part of it's inventory. If it is a custom cake shop, it can simply say that it doesn't do political decorations. You can restrict your business in terms of what you offer, but you cannot refuse service.

[CaveDog]

No one is entitled to anyone else's labor. Period. Even if there were a contract involved and one party refuses to supply the labor they contracted then the remedy is limited to damages, not forcing the person to perform the labor. To force one to labor for any reason is a form of servitude and repugnant to the rights of humanity.

[zelmo1234]

No because no one can dictate the decorations that a cake shop does. A cake shop can have a catalog of decorations and stick to it. If a customer doesn't find what they want in the catalog, they can go elsewhere. The cake shop is not refusing service, but yet not acceding to making a decoration that is not part of it's inventory. If it is a custom cake shop, it can simply say that it doesn't do political decorations. You can restrict your business in terms of what you offer, but you cannot refuse service.

Now you know I am going to call you on this. :)

If the catalog does not have same sex couples in the decorations can they send them down the road?

If it is custom shop are you going to allow them to discriminate against a political party? Why? That is still discrimination

You can't choose who you are going to force a business to do business with, this is all or nothing. If you force them to service one group the precedent is going to be set in the legal system.

this is why I am gong to choose freedom. They both should be able to say NO

[Dr. Who]

Now you know I am going to call you on this. :)

If the catalog does not have same sex couples in the decorations can they send them down the road?

If it is custom shop are you going to allow them to discriminate against a political party? Why? That is still discrimination

You can't choose who you are going to force a business to do business with, this is all or nothing. If you force them to service one group the precedent is going to be set in the legal system.

this is why I am gong to choose freedom. They both should be able to say NO

If the catalog does not have same sex couples in the decorations can they send them down the road?
Yes they can. It's not part of their catalog. It's not part of their inventory. No different than going to a shoe store that doesn't carry your size.

A cake store doesn't have to do boob cakes either.

[GrassrootsConservative]

No because no one can dictate the decorations that a cake shop does. A cake shop can have a catalog of decorations and stick to it. If a customer doesn't find what they want in the catalog, they can go elsewhere. The cake shop is not refusing service, but yet not acceding to making a decoration that is not part of it's inventory. If it is a custom cake shop, it can simply say that it doesn't do political decorations. You can restrict your business in terms of what you offer, but you cannot refuse service.

You can ABSOLUTELY refuse service. That's what all the signs saying "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" mean.

https://www.google.com/search?q=we+reserve+the+right+to+refuse+service&biw=1366&bih=637&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=r2ofVbyxIsPxsAXzvIC4Dg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg

I'm surprised you've never seen them. Most places I've seen have them.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Same as denying service for no shirt or no shoes. Public places of business can do that, too.

I don't know why militant homosexual activists want to force everyone into slavery for everybody, no matter what.

If I don't want to serve someone I shouldn't have to. That's dumb. I'm a free person living in America, quit trying to take that away from me.

[Dr. Who]

You can ABSOLUTELY refuse service. That's what all the signs saying "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" mean.

https://www.google.com/search?q=we+reserve+the+right+to+refuse+service&biw=1366&bih=637&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=r2ofVbyxIsPxsAXzvIC4Dg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg

I'm surprised you've never seen them. Most places I've seen have them.
Those signs are in restaurants or night clubs, and generally refer to the ability to refuse service to people who come in not adhering to the dress code of the restaurant or the behavior code, both of which are protected. A food service or entertainment business can have a standard of dress if it is either necessary to the health standards of the establishment or the character of same i.e. no shirt, no shoes, no service.

/Edit - they can also refuse service to people who are drunk.

[Green Arrow]

Personally, I think refusing someone service is petty. You're making money off their service. Sit down and STFU.

[Dr. Who]

Personally, I think refusing someone service is petty. You're making money off their service. Sit down and STFU.
I can see an upscale restaurant catering to a certain clientele refusing to serve a group in tank tops and shorts. It's not their target market and might lose them the custom of the people that they do cater to. People are snobby that way. If they get all dressed up for dinner, they don't want to feel that they are going to a sports bar.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Personally, I think refusing someone service is petty. You're making money off their service. Sit down and STFU.

So you think a jew refusing to bake a swastika cake for a nazi would be petty?

[Dr. Who]

So you think a jew, under normal business circumstances, should be forced to bake a cake with a swastika for a nazi, if they requested it?
Not acquiescing to putting a swastika on a cake is not refusing service. It's not refusing to sell a cake. It's just not offering the decoration of choice. That is a huge difference. No one can force you to be everything to everyone. You can't go to microsoft and demand a robot. They don't make them. You can't force a store to carry a certain product and you can't tell a landscape artist that they must do a portrait.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Not acquiescing to putting a swastika on a cake is not refusing service. It's not refusing to sell a cake. It's just not offering the decoration of choice. That is a huge difference. No one can force you to be everything to everyone. You can't go to microsoft and demand a robot. They don't make them. You can't force a store to carry a certain product and you can't tell a landscape artist that they must do a portrait.

Ok, but then it wouldn't be illogical to think that he would believe a jew just straight up refusing service to a nazi is petty, would it?

[GrassrootsConservative]

What if a woman who was deathly afraid of clowns had an offer to do a catering job for a big circus convention? Would it be petty for her to refuse?

[Dr. Who]

Ok, but then it wouldn't be illogical to think that he would believe a jew just straight up refusing service to a nazi is petty, would it?
That is a different question. Simply refusing to sell a cake to a neo-nazi would be discriminatory and no more legal than refusing to sell to a gay couple.

[GrassrootsConservative]

That is a different question. Simply refusing to sell a cake to a neo-nazi would be discriminatory and no more legal than refusing to sell to a gay couple.

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/42271-Should-a-jew?p=1029765&viewfull=1#post1029765

There are many, many, many good reasons to refuse service to a person. We already went over no shoes, or no shirt, or too drunk, or whatever. Just because you think one reason is bad doesn't make them all bad.

[Green Arrow]

So you think a jew refusing to bake a swastika cake for a nazi would be petty?

Yep. Take their money and rub their stupid faces in it.

[Dr. Who]

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/42271-Should-a-jew?p=1029765&viewfull=1#post1029765

There are many, many, many good reasons to refuse service to a person. We already went over no shoes, or no shirt, or too drunk, or whatever. Just because you think one reason is bad doesn't make them all bad.
The devil is in the distinction GRC. You can discriminate on business grounds which doesn't include specific bias against race, religion, gender, sexual preference or ethnicity. If the parameters of discrimination consider the mandate of your business in terms of dress code, health concerns or a desire not to get sued for over service of alcohol, you are on strong legal footing.

[GrassrootsConservative]

The devil is in the distinction GRC. You can discriminate on business grounds which doesn't include specific bias against race, religion, gender, sexual preference or ethnicity. If the parameters of discrimination consider the mandate of your business in terms of dress code, health concerns or a desire not to get sued for over service of alcohol, you are on strong legal footing.

Seems like slavery to me. I don't know how it's not slavery. You're forcing someone to do labor against their will.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Yep. Take their money and rub their stupid faces in it.

And then go and spend hours baking a cake for people that hate you and would probably kill you if they knew your religion.

[Green Arrow]

And then go and spend hours baking a cake for people that hate you and would probably kill you if they knew your religion.

I really just don't care. Money is money. If I can pay my bills and buy my wife nice things, fuck the Nazis, I'll take their money.

[Dr. Who]

Seems like slavery to me. I don't know how it's not slavery. You're forcing someone to do labor against their will.
They volunteer to obtain a license and sell to the public. That license carries conditions.

[Peter1469]

What if a woman who was deathly afraid of clowns had an offer to do a catering job for a big circus convention? Would it be petty for her to refuse?

She can't refuse. The gays who support forcing the Pizza place to cater a gay wedding will certainly come out in full foot-stomp mode to demand the intolerant hussy to work the convention. You know. Like a slave.

The hard left is either blinded by ideology or retarded. Maybe both. I chalk it up to public school education.

[Peter1469]

I really just don't care. Money is money. If I can pay my bills and buy my wife nice things, fuck the Nazis, I'll take their money.

That is my position. If I owned a business I would accept anyone with real money or real credit.

But this issue is well beyond that. It is about community agitators creating problems to divide society and garner publicity. The lot of them should be publicly outed and then shamed. Civil society ought not put up with this hysterics.

[GrassrootsConservative]

I really just don't care. Money is money. If I can pay my bills and buy my wife nice things, fuck the Nazis, I'll take their money.

You're also not Jewish.

Ask Chloe what she would do if cultcrusher wanted to do some business at whatever hypothetical marketplace she wants to imagine owning.

[Redrose]

My great-uncle in South Brooklyn, a little Italian grocer, would literally chase people out of his store if he didn't like how you looked, or smelled or acted up. The local cops backed him up every time. This was in the early 20th century 1910 to 1960. What it accomplished was order in his store, little shoplifting, and friendly people shopping in peace. He lived over the store and kept a close eye on it. He had no sons, one daughter that became a nun. When he died his money went to a sister who moved to Boca Raton, Fl. very well off.

He came here with newspaper wrapped on his feet for shoes. He built a successful business and retired with money in the bank and no debt. He never took government assistance and died a proud man.

People should be able to run their business their way.

By the way, President Obama, HE DID BUILD IT ALONE.

[Howey]

have to bake a swastika cake for a neo-nazi customer?
I'm not going to vote since it's one sided (you should work for Rasmussen iustitia), but I do have a couple of questions.

Are neo Nazis discriminated against?

Would a Christian baker bake a cake with a swastika on it for a neo nazi?

[Hal Jordan]

That is my position. If I owned a business I would accept anyone with real money or real credit.

But this issue is well beyond that. It is about community agitators creating problems to divide society and garner publicity. The lot of them should be publicly outed and then shamed. Civil society ought not put up with this hysterics.

It should be left to civil society to deal with it. Leave the government out of it. I think where we're at as a society, we can deal with it just fine.

[Hal Jordan]

I'm not going to vote since it's one sided (you should work for Rasmussen @iustitia (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=926)), but I do have a couple of questions.

Are neo Nazis discriminated against?

Would a Christian baker bake a cake on it for a neo nazi?

I think it depends on the Christian baker...

[Howey]

What if a woman who was deathly afraid of clowns had an offer to do a catering job for a big circus convention? Would it be petty for her to refuse?

Are y'all intentionally missing the point or are you just that dense?

The issue is serving to federally protected groups. Last I looked clowns aren't a federally protected group, nor do they face discrimination. While gays aren't yet federally protected, they will be in a couple of months so until then you bigots can refuse to serve them all you want.
Just be prepared to face the backlash.

Side note: Personally I'd love to see the carnage after a homophobe refuses to serve a couple of butch dykes or black drag queens. I'll bet after that embarrasment they'll be begging them to let them bake a cake for them.

[GrassrootsConservative]

I didn't realize "federally protected groups" was the issue. Unless nazis are suddenly a federally protected group.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Are y'all intentionally missing the point or are you just that dense?

The issue is serving to federally protected groups. Last I looked clowns aren't a federally protected group, nor do they face discrimination. While gays aren't yet federally protected, they will be in a couple of months so until then you bigots can refuse to serve them all you want.
Just be prepared to face the backlash.

Side note: Personally I'd love to see the carnage after a homophobe refuses to serve a couple of butch dykes or black drag queens. I'll bet after that embarrasment they'll be begging them to let them bake a cake for them.

Why does the skin color of the drag queens matter, Howie?

[Common]

I really just don't care. Money is money. If I can pay my bills and buy my wife nice things, fuck the Nazis, I'll take their money.

But you are thinking from a Non Jewish Perspective, if you were jewish it might change things.

[Common]

I read this thread through entirely, and its made me think, in a direction I hadnt before. There are too many variations and its mind boggling.

I know many jews grew up with many and I believe a hasidic jew baker absolutely would not bake a cake for a skinhead neo nazi with swastikas tatooed in plain site.

[Howey]

Why does the skin color of the drag queens matter, Howie?
Go piss off a black drag queen and you'll find out.

[Chris]

Are y'all intentionally missing the point or are you just that dense?

The issue is serving to federally protected groups. Last I looked clowns aren't a federally protected group, nor do they face discrimination. While gays aren't yet federally protected, they will be in a couple of months so until then you bigots can refuse to serve them all you want.
Just be prepared to face the backlash.

Side note: Personally I'd love to see the carnage after a homophobe refuses to serve a couple of butch dykes or black drag queens. I'll bet after that embarrasment they'll be begging them to let them bake a cake for them.

No one's in a federally protected group. Or are you talking about the endangered species list?

On edit, I see there are actually, legally defined, federally protected class.

Here I thought the aim of egalitarianism was equality, not special treatment. Such laws are like self-annihilating sentences as they say, specially, you can't treat these classes specially.

[Kurmugeon]

Betty Crocker made baking cakes so easy, even a Neo-Nazi can do it.

I'd bet even a couple of gay about to be weds could figure it out.

Bake you're own damn cakes if you're just out to make a political nightmare for Baker's Shoppes.

-

[Peter1469]

I didn't realize "federally protected groups" was the issue. Unless nazis are suddenly a federally protected group.


Of course it is the issue. Suspect classes have higher levels of protection- because of presumed discrimination. The suspect classes are: race, national origin, alienage, or religious affiliation. (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Suspect+class) That means if any law targets one of those classes of people the courts will apply the most strict of the three types of judicial scrutiny- strict scrutiny.

That is a big deal, because under strict scrutiny a law is only constitutional if the state can show that there is no less restrictive means to accomplish the goal and the state has the burden to show that the law is constitutional.

Most state action is judged under the lesser type of scrutiny- rational basis. That is easy for the state to meet.

I believe that currently sexual orientation is considered a "quasi-suspected class" and Intermediate scrutiny is applied by the courts.

[Chloe]

You're also not Jewish.

Ask @Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565) what she would do if cultcrusher wanted to do some business at whatever hypothetical marketplace she wants to imagine owning.
GrassrootsConservative it depends I guess. If I had a bakery and a neo-nazi came in and he asked me to bake a birthday cake for his kid with fun pictures and stuff on it then as long as he was being respectful i'd probably still make the cake for him in spite of his ignorance. Basically there would be no reason to create an issue with him over something like that. If he asked me to put a design of nazi style depiction of a stereotypical Jew on it with hate speech iced all over it then i'd tell him no. In that case I would tell him that I could make the cake and leave the top blank for him to ice a design at home. If he asked to just put a swastika on the cake then I probably still would make the cake and do that for him, although I would hope he would never come back after that.

The reason i'd say no to the Jewish depiction is because it directly insults and threatens me whereas the swastika really doesnt. It's the same with a cake for a gay couple getting married. Making a cake and icing two peoples name on it and acknowledging that they are getting married is completely unrelated to the baker. The message and meaning is for the people receiving the cake. Now if someone came in to a bakery and asked a christian baker to draw a picture of an upside down cross and words saying that christians should die then sure that baker has every right to consider that a threat to themselves, their faith, and so on, and should deny service.

So yeah....if for example I had an eco-tour business and a neo-nazi wanted to go on a three day backcountry hiking/camping trip with me leading it and as long as his focus is on the trip, nature, and having a good time then why would I go out of my way to deny him that? Maybe it will help open his eyes, who knows. If he wanted me to take him out into the backcountry so he could perform a nazi rally and spread a message of killing Jews then that would be a no. That being said, if we were in the backcountry and he uses that opportunity to trick me and then kill me then if someone could please make sure he gets prosecuted later on i'd appreciate that.

[Bob]

@GrassrootsConservative (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=478) it depends I guess. If I had a bakery and a neo-nazi came in and he asked me to bake a birthday cake for his kid with fun pictures and stuff on it then as long as he was being respectful i'd probably still make the cake for him in spite of his ignorance. Basically there would be no reason to create an issue with him over something like that. If he asked me to put a design of nazi style depiction of a stereotypical Jew on it with hate speech iced all over it then i'd tell him no. In that case I would tell him that I could make the cake and leave the top blank for him to ice a design at home. If he asked to just put a swastika on the cake then I probably still would make the cake and do that for him, although I would hope he would never come back after that.

The reason i'd say no to the Jewish depiction is because it directly insults and threatens me whereas the swastika really doesnt. It's the same with a cake for a gay couple getting married. Making a cake and icing two peoples name on it and acknowledging that they are getting married is completely unrelated to the baker. The message and meaning is for the people receiving the cake. Now if someone came in to a bakery and asked a christian baker to draw a picture of an upside down cross and words saying that christians should die then sure that baker has every right to consider that a threat to themselves, their faith, and so on, and should deny service.

So yeah....if for example I had an eco-tour business and a neo-nazi wanted to go on a three day backcountry hiking/camping trip with me leading it and as long as his focus is on the trip, nature, and having a good time then why would I go out of my way to deny him that? Maybe it will help open his eyes, who knows. If he wanted me to take him out into the backcountry so he could perform a nazi rally and spread a message of killing Jews then that would be a no. That being said, if we were in the backcountry and he uses that opportunity to trick me and then kill me then if someone could please make sure he gets prosecuted later on i'd appreciate that.


Let's take you to the wedding where you will be part of the Nazi ceremony.

This is the equivalent of the case in Indiana.

You will cater cakes as part of your job.

Do you cater?

[Peter1469]

The same "logic" used by the foot stopping gay activists will force you to cater to the Nazi (of course they will deny it). Notice, they can only get their wish with the jack-boot authority of the State.

Now that is ironic. :smiley:


@GrassrootsConservative (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=478) it depends I guess. If I had a bakery and a neo-nazi came in and he asked me to bake a birthday cake for his kid with fun pictures and stuff on it then as long as he was being respectful i'd probably still make the cake for him in spite of his ignorance. Basically there would be no reason to create an issue with him over something like that. If he asked me to put a design of nazi style depiction of a stereotypical Jew on it with hate speech iced all over it then i'd tell him no. In that case I would tell him that I could make the cake and leave the top blank for him to ice a design at home. If he asked to just put a swastika on the cake then I probably still would make the cake and do that for him, although I would hope he would never come back after that.

The reason i'd say no to the Jewish depiction is because it directly insults and threatens me whereas the swastika really doesnt. It's the same with a cake for a gay couple getting married. Making a cake and icing two peoples name on it and acknowledging that they are getting married is completely unrelated to the baker. The message and meaning is for the people receiving the cake. Now if someone came in to a bakery and asked a christian baker to draw a picture of an upside down cross and words saying that christians should die then sure that baker has every right to consider that a threat to themselves, their faith, and so on, and should deny service.

So yeah....if for example I had an eco-tour business and a neo-nazi wanted to go on a three day backcountry hiking/camping trip with me leading it and as long as his focus is on the trip, nature, and having a good time then why would I go out of my way to deny him that? Maybe it will help open his eyes, who knows. If he wanted me to take him out into the backcountry so he could perform a nazi rally and spread a message of killing Jews then that would be a no. That being said, if we were in the backcountry and he uses that opportunity to trick me and then kill me then if someone could please make sure he gets prosecuted later on i'd appreciate that.

[Chloe]

Let's take you to the wedding where you will be part of the Nazi ceremony.

This is the equivalent of the case in Indiana.

You will cater cakes as part of your job.

Do you cater?

It is absolutely not the equivalent. Two gay people getting married is no where close to be comparable to Nazism.

But to answer your question me simply catering a wedding between two nazis does not affect my religious faith any more or less than a christian catering a wedding for two gay people. If it did then then perhaps I am not as secure in my personal faith as I thought.

[Mr. Right]

Are y'all intentionally missing the point or are you just that dense?

The issue is serving to federally protected groups. Last I looked clowns aren't a federally protected group, nor do they face discrimination. While gays aren't yet federally protected, they will be in a couple of months so until then you bigots can refuse to serve them all you want.
Just be prepared to face the backlash.

Side note: Personally I'd love to see the carnage after a homophobe refuses to serve a couple of butch dykes or black drag queens. I'll bet after that embarrasment they'll be begging them to let them bake a cake for them.

That is why so many of us have Conceal Carry Permits. I'll not be physically violated by anyone. Run that mouth all ya want, touch me and it's a different story.

[Peter1469]

It is absolutely not the equivalent. Two gay people getting married is no where close to be comparable to Nazism.

But to answer your question me simply catering a wedding between two nazis does not affect my religious faith any more or less than a christian catering a wedding for two gay people. If it did then then perhaps I am not as secure in my personal faith as I thought.

That is not the comparison. The comparison is forcing a person to do something that they are morally opposed to. Can have it both ways.

[Bob]

It is absolutely not the equivalent. Two gay people getting married is no where close to be comparable to Nazism.

But to answer your question me simply catering a wedding between two nazis does not affect my religious faith any more or less than a christian catering a wedding for two gay people. If it did then then perhaps I am not as secure in my personal faith as I thought.

WOW, .... maybe later I will take you back on. I feel like I was ignored. It is as if my case had something to do with what you told me back.

[Chloe]

WOW, .... maybe later I will take you back on. I feel like I was ignored. It is as if my case had something to do with what you told me back.

I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about bob

[Green Arrow]

You're also not Jewish.

Ask @Chloe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=565) what she would do if cultcrusher wanted to do some business at whatever hypothetical marketplace she wants to imagine owning.


But you are thinking from a Non Jewish Perspective, if you were jewish it might change things.
Hal Jordan, should I correct them, or just giggle to myself and let it be?

[Bob]

I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about bob

Now you realize how your comment struck me.

[Green Arrow]

Now you realize how your comment struck me.

That sounds like a personal problem.

[Chloe]

Now you realize how your comment struck me.


11091

[Bob]

That sounds like a personal problem.

If that be true, why did you reply?

[Green Arrow]

If that be true, why did you reply?

Because I felt like it.

[Bo-4]

Lol, i knew that someone was gonna go here eventually!

Hate symbols and obscene images on a cake would could certainly be politely turned down. I mean, personally i wouldn't mind baking a boob or a dick cake but some would.

Do you see the difference? -- turning down the swastika part would not be turning away the customer.

IOW, "here's a nice white cake with vanilla frosting that meets your description (Adolf) .. but you'll need to add your own swastika."

[Bo-4]

The radicals in the homosexual rights movement have literally gone bat-shit crazy in their quest for revenge against Christians.

They want payback for all those years when they had to stay in the closet.

This isn't about homosexual rights, it's about scorching the earth and leaving no Christian standing.

Whatever you say Mr. O'Reilly.
:biglaugh:

[Bo-4]

My great-uncle in South Brooklyn, a little Italian grocer, would literally chase people out of his store if he didn't like how you looked, or smelled or acted up. The local cops backed him up every time. This was in the early 20th century 1910 to 1960. What it accomplished was order in his store, little shoplifting, and friendly people shopping in peace. He lived over the store and kept a close eye on it. He had no sons, one daughter that became a nun. When he died his money went to a sister who moved to Boca Raton, Fl. very well off.

He came here with newspaper wrapped on his feet for shoes. He built a successful business and retired with money in the bank and no debt. He never took government assistance and died a proud man.

People should be able to run their business their way.

By the way, President Obama, HE DID BUILD IT ALONE.

Comparing the '10 - '60 to current times is ridiculous. Negroes weren't allowed to vote then either, and Whites Only signs were legal.

[Tahuyaman]

Several "gay" bakeries have already been exposed for saying they wouldn't cater to anyone who wanted anti gay messages on their products. They were quite nasty about it too.

but that's OK. Certain groups are protected and are authorized to live by a double standard.

[iustitia]

I'm not going to vote since it's one sided (you should work for Rasmussen @iustitia (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=926)), but I do have a couple of questions.

Are neo Nazis discriminated against?

Would a Christian baker bake a cake with a swastika on it for a neo nazi?

I think you're not going to vote because you're being intellectually dishonest. Your cause demands silencing the beliefs of many to accommodate others whom you think need state protection. It's a dubious position in itself and instead of conceding that you're biased, or even moderating your tone when presented with a similar but uncomfortable case, or even being consistent about the morality of forcing someone to do business with those they find offensive... you refuse to make any effort to come to terms with your original position or get a new one.

I fail to see how it's one-sided. There are two positions to take here. What's the middle ground? Either a person's conscience can have no place in their business transactions with those they disagree with or it can. I'm sure a neo-nazi tattooed with swastikas could argue he's discriminated against and make a far better case about being a social outcast than upper class gay dudes in hipster sweater vests and glasses. And that's half the point. Everything is relative. So instead of the Christian baker refusing to serve a gay wedding I moved to another example of a jew being forced to do business with a neo-nazi. I figure you of all people, a gay jew, should be able to appreciate the double standard that your position creates when the tables are turned.

As for your question, I have no way of knowing. Just as there are jews in this thread who would bake a swastika cake because money is money I'm sure there are Christians who would feel the same. I would neither want to cater to a gay or neo-nazi wedding were that my avenue. And I think this thread has shown you that a large majority, Christians included, think it's wrong to force someone to serve those with whom they have a crisis of conscience in dealing.


Are y'all intentionally missing the point or are you just that dense?

The issue is serving to federally protected groups. Last I looked clowns aren't a federally protected group, nor do they face discrimination. While gays aren't yet federally protected, they will be in a couple of months so until then you bigots can refuse to serve them all you want.
Just be prepared to face the backlash.

Side note: Personally I'd love to see the carnage after a homophobe refuses to serve a couple of butch dykes or black drag queens. I'll bet after that embarrasment they'll be begging them to let them bake a cake for them.

The issue is not people as protected classes but people as individuals. Either you have the right to run your business according to your conscience or you don't. Discrimination is also subjective. Every time you see male and female restrooms you're seeing discrimination. Discrimination is rational and to many important. And what makes you think nazis aren't discriminated against? They're the most hated group around. I'm more than willing to bet that a guy with a swastika on his face would get told to get the fuck out of someone's store the second he walked in. How many successful job interviews do you think such a person has? You're being obtuse.

This is also where I'm starting to really lose respect for you as a person, Howey. You've literally seen a thread where literally a dozen traditional jews, Christians, libertarians and conservatives have defended a jew's right to not be forced into serving a nazi. But because the corollary to this principled stand is that a Christian shouldn't be forced to serve a gay wedding you're labeling them all bigots? Arrow and Raven are gay ad they don't support strong-arming businesses because they're 'homophobic'. I'm a Puerto Rican and if a store didn't serve hispanics then I can easily not do business with them. And as a jew, whether I'd take their money or not in practice, I find it unethical and morally reprehensible to force me to do business with someone who holds myself or my beliefs in contempt, and the same goes for making me serve those I don't want to serve.

Your modus operandi is tiresome, Howey. Not everyone with different values than you is a 'homophobe'. On the contrary, a bigot would force someone into a business transaction they don't want a part in. Bigots are bullies, and in your inconsistency over gay populism and your intentional labeling of others you support bullying. There are so many instances in which a person's conscience should not be violated when making a business call, but you seem blinded to them in your fervent support of mandated tolerance of homosexuality. I really wish you could be objective.

[Peter1469]

The hard left is driven by emotion. Not logic. Nothing you said will register.


I think you're not going to vote because you're being intellectually dishonest. Your cause demands silencing the beliefs of many to accommodate others whom you think need state protection. It's a dubious position in itself and instead of conceding that you're biased, or even moderating your tone when presented with a similar but uncomfortable case, or even being consistent about the morality of forcing someone to do business with those they find offensive... you refuse to make any effort to come to terms with your original position or get a new one.

I fail to see how it's one-sided. There are two positions to take here. What's the middle ground? Either a person's conscience can have no place in their business transactions with those they disagree with or it can. I'm sure a neo-nazi tattooed with swastikas could argue he's discriminated against and make a far better case about being a social outcast than upper class gay dudes in hipster sweater vests and glasses. And that's half the point. Everything is relative. So instead of the Christian baker refusing to serve a gay wedding I moved to another example of a jew being forced to do business with a neo-nazi. I figure you of all people, a gay jew, should be able to appreciate the double standard that your position creates when the tables are turned.

As for your question, I have no way of knowing. Just as there are jews in this thread who would bake a swastika cake because money is money I'm sure there are Christians who would feel the same. I would neither want to cater to a gay or neo-nazi wedding were that my avenue. And I think this thread has shown you that a large majority, Christians included, think it's wrong to force someone to serve those with whom they have a crisis of conscience in dealing.



The issue is not people as protected classes but people as individuals. Either you have the right to run your business according to your conscience or you don't. Discrimination is also subjective. Every time you see male and female restrooms you're seeing discrimination. Discrimination is rational and to many important. And what makes you think nazis aren't discriminated against? They're the most hated group around. I'm more than willing to bet that a guy with a swastika on his face would get told to get the fuck out of someone's store the second he walked in. How many successful job interviews do you think such a person has? You're being obtuse.

This is also where I'm starting to really lose respect for you as a person, Howey. You've literally seen a thread where literally a dozen traditional jews, Christians, libertarians and conservatives have defended a jew's right to not be forced into serving a nazi. But because the corollary to this principled stand is that a Christian shouldn't be forced to serve a gay wedding you're labeling them all bigots? Arrow and Raven are gay ad they don't support strong-arming businesses because they're 'homophobic'. I'm a Puerto Rican and if a store didn't serve hispanics then I can easily not do business with them. And as a jew, whether I'd take their money or not in practice, I find it unethical and morally reprehensible to force me to do business with someone who holds myself or my beliefs in contempt, and the same goes for making me serve those I don't want to serve.

Your modus operandi is tiresome, Howey. Not everyone with different values than you is a 'homophobe'. On the contrary, a bigot would force someone into a business transaction they don't want a part in. Bigots are bullies, and in your inconsistency over gay populism and your intentional labeling of others you support bullying. There are so many instances in which a person's conscience should not be violated when making a business call, but you seem blinded to them in your fervent support of mandated tolerance of homosexuality. I really wish you could be objective.

[Don]

Federally protected group. That doesn't sound good at all. Sounds like a special class. Or an endangered species.

[GrassrootsConservative]

I generally hear anything with the term "federal" as something toxic.

[Chris]

It's odd that federal implies centralization but federalism decentralization.

[Hal Jordan]

@Hal Jordan (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=994), should I correct them, or just giggle to myself and let it be?

Giggle and mayhaps roll your eyes.

[Green Arrow]

Giggle and mayhaps roll your eyes.

Indeed.

What's for lunch/dinner today? I'm thinkin' Zaxby's.

[Hal Jordan]

Indeed.

What's for lunch/dinner today? I'm thinkin' Zaxby's.

Why am I not surprised?

[Green Arrow]

Why am I not surprised?

Well, I was going to go to Amigo's, but nobody wants to go with me.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Well, I was going to go to Amigo's, but nobody wants to go with me.

I have so many Amigo's/King's coupons it's not even funny. All the Amigo's here are jointly-owned buildings with King's burgers and Kopelli coffee/donuts.

[Green Arrow]

I have so many Amigo's/King's coupons it's not even funny. All the Amigo's here are jointly-owned buildings with King's burgers and Kopelli coffee/donuts.

Is it the same as the Amigo's here in Tennessee? I know here there are at least two different restaurants called Amigos/Amigo's.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Is it the same as the Amigo's here in Tennessee? I know here there are at least two different restaurants called Amigos/Amigo's.

Never seen an Amigos in Tennessee. I lived between Memphis and Nashville.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Amigo's_Restaurant.JPG






Mexican food mostly. Tacos/burritos/cheesywraps.

[Green Arrow]

Never seen an Amigos in Tennessee. I lived between Memphis and Nashville.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Amigo's_Restaurant.JPG






Mexican food mostly. Tacos/burritos/cheesywraps.

Yeah, that's a totally different restaurant. The one I'm talking about is just "Amigo."

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/c0.0.851.315/p851x315/10168109_738219986270623_3701253721563359810_n.jpg ?oh=b8e403d0971699209d7c292c86c5e455&oe=54FFA0B2&__gda__=1430595665_c56f63ad71259965b2a1c22c87da570 4

[GrassrootsConservative]

Oh ok. Yeah that looks different. Those drinks on the right look amazing.

[Green Arrow]

Oh ok. Yeah that looks different. Those drinks on the right look amazing.

It's a fantastic Mexican restaurant. Hard thing for me to say, too. It's been hard for me to find good Mexican restaurants since leaving California, but we have a few good ones here in Chattanooga. My favorite dish at Amigo is their Special Guadalajara, which is basically a plate of rice with strips of grilled chicken on top of the rice and white queso on top of the whole shebang.

[GrassrootsConservative]

It's a fantastic Mexican restaurant. Hard thing for me to say, too. It's been hard for me to find good Mexican restaurants since leaving California, but we have a few good ones here in Chattanooga. My favorite dish at Amigo is their Special Guadalajara, which is basically a plate of rice with strips of grilled chicken on top of the rice and white queso on top of the whole shebang.

I make a plate like that all the time at my work on my break.

Rice bowl (/edit: brown and white rice) with cajun chicken topped with shredded cheddar/jack cheese melted over top and then our (yellow, not white) queso on top and then I add some hot sauce.

[Green Arrow]

I make a plate like that all the time at my work on my break.

Rice bowl (/edit: brown and white rice) with cajun chicken topped with shredded cheddar/jack cheese melted over top and then our (yellow, not white) queso on top and then I add some hot sauce.

Oh, that sounds magical.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Oh, that sounds magical.

Also I do the same with our Carnitas sometimes.

Most of the time I sautee those in queso instead of topping with queso. :) Delicious.

[Peter1469]

Ethereal showed me a great Mexican restaurant around Fredricksburg / Richmond. I was impressed.


It's a fantastic Mexican restaurant. Hard thing for me to say, too. It's been hard for me to find good Mexican restaurants since leaving California, but we have a few good ones here in Chattanooga. My favorite dish at Amigo is their Special Guadalajara, which is basically a plate of rice with strips of grilled chicken on top of the rice and white queso on top of the whole shebang.

[Hal Jordan]

@Ethereal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=870) showed me a great Mexican restaurant around Fredricksburg / Richmond. I was impressed.

You might have to let me know where that is and I can take Green Arrow to check it out the next time he's up here.

[donttread]

Federally protected group. That doesn't sound good at all. Sounds like a special class. Or an endangered species.

Everyone except old , fat, straight white dudes are protected. I guess we're the only group left who can still protect and take care of ourselves ?