UK considering ban on produce from illegal neozionist squats.

[moon]

Minister hints at UK, EU move towards ban on Israeli settlement goods

Foreign office (FCO) minister Alistair Burt yesterday dropped the strongest hint yet that the UK may be moving towards a ban on goods from illegal Israeli settlements.

Burt, who is responsible for Middle East affairs at the FCO, was facing pressure at a debate in Parliament Wednesday for concrete action on Israeli settlement goods. In response to a question from Richard Burden MP (vice chair of the Labour Friends of Palestine group) the minister said:
“We value the fact that people have choice in relation to their purchase of [settlement] goods [because of stronger regulations on labelling], but further consideration of the issue of settlement produce and financing is under active consideration in London and in Brussels”

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/minister-hints-uk-eu-move-towards-ban-israeli-settlement-goods?utm_source=EI+readers&utm_campaign=29a8c02ea2-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email


It stands to reason that goods produced in illegal squats are NOT ' produce of Israel '. *Labeling them such is clearly a deception. **
Many organizations have already termed such goods contraband and it's in the UK's credit that they have overcome the vicious pro-Israel lobbying in order to even consider such a ban. *Perhaps they are feeling remorse at the giant cock-up they made of their Mandate obligations back in 1947.*

[Agravan]

My, why all the racism Moon? How is settling in occupied land "illegal"? They conquered the land from their neighbors (who, by the way, attacked Israel, not the other way around) so now it belongs to Israel. It is no longer "occupied territory". Nations have acquired land in this way for centuries. Even your precious European countries, the UK to an even greater extent. So why all the whining from the left?

Basically, the rule is: If you don't want to lose your land by starting wars, then DON'T START WARS.

[moon]

My, why all the racism Moon? How is settling in occupied land "illegal"? They conquered the land from their neighbors (who, by the way, attacked Israel, not the other way around) so now it belongs to Israel. It is no longer "occupied territory". Nations have acquired land in this way for centuries. Even your precious European countries, the UK to an even greater extent. So why all the whining from the left?Basically, the rule is: If you don't want to lose your land by starting wars, then DON'T START WARS. You don't appear to have any concept of international law whatsoever . Tell you what, I'll straighten it out for you and then you'll have a reference point for your future contributions to the subject. Bear in mind that law is law. It is not opinion. Ready ? Good, then we'll begin.. International law decrees that Israel occupies Palestinian territories illegally. Even the US of AIPAC subscribes to that decree. How could it not ? It is based upon principles which it helped to establish.What are these principles ? Well, modern international law regarding territory is derived from several sources, among them the Kellog-Briand Peace Pact- which followed the Great War- and the judgements handed down at the Nuremberg Trials- which followed the Second World War. Customary law was also a consideration when the nations of the world came together to form the United Nations and pledged to abide by the rulings of its legal and executive arms, the International Courts of Justice and the UN Security Council respectively . In their wisdom they decided that it would no longer be possible to grab somebody else's territory by means of war. They determined that the acquisition of territory by means of war was inadmissible for legal purposes. You can see reference to this , as an example, in the opening statements of UN Resolution 242, to which I now link;http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/un242.htmOf .Of course, territory which had been stolen prior to these judicial decrees was unaffected- so you don't have to worry about handing America back to the Americans on this particular issue..Israel, as everybody is aware, stole large portions of Palestine by means of the 1967 war and attempted to annex these territories. Of course, it's demonstrably illegal to so do and so their occupation is illegal. One might argue that it is sometimes wise to occupy territory for the purposes of self defense- and the law recognizes that- but such occupation can only be viewed as temporary. Resolution 242, in fact, requires the Israelis to withdraw to the pre-1967 borders. It may come as a shock to many that 80% of the planet's represented people ALREADY recognize a Palestinian State on the pre-1967 borders. It is just a matter of time before that State is accepted into the UN , I dare to predict.. So, your assertions might have impressed, say, the Vikings, Taras Bulba, the Conquistadors or any other marauding folk from times gone by - but they are laughable in the 21st century.Edit. Sorry for the continuous text- but the flaky forum software now refuses to accept paragraphs. Browser issues ? Not in this day and age, surely. Asterisks are gone though. What a bonus.

[gophangover]

My, why all the racism Moon? How is settling in occupied land "illegal"? They conquered the land from their neighbors (who, by the way, attacked Israel, not the other way around) so now it belongs to Israel. It is no longer "occupied territory". Nations have acquired land in this way for centuries. Even your precious European countries, the UK to an even greater extent. So why all the whining from the left?

Basically, the rule is: If you don't want to lose your land by starting wars, then DON'T START WARS.
<<Trolling/insults>>
With your logic, the U.S. should take over Iraq and Afganistan and acquire those lands like they did to the native Americans. Genocide is cool with you, obviously. The Jews stole that land clear back when they first left Egypt after the exodus. And the U.S. helped them steal it again in 1948. The Jews treat the Palestinians the way the nazi's treated the Jews, like they are less than human. But then, cons consider any Muslim less than human too, that's why they killed over a million of them when Shrub was POTUS. And most of them were innocent women, children and elderly. Your little cartoon with the machine gun really shows what cons are all about. <<Trolling/insults>>

[Agravan]

<<Trolling/insults>> With your logic, the U.S. should take over Iraq and Afganistan and acquire those lands like they did to the native Americans. Genocide is cool with you, obviously. The Jews stole that land clear back when they first left Egypt after the exodus. And the U.S. helped them steal it again in 1948. The Jews treat the Palestinians the way the nazi's treated the Jews, like they are less than human. But then, cons consider any Muslim less than human too, that's why they killed over a million of them when Shrub was POTUS. And most of them were innocent women, children and elderly. Your little cartoon with the machine gun really shows what cons are all about.<<Trolling/insults>>

The Jews stole nothing. That land was theirs centuries before the Egyptian exodus. Palestine has never existed as a state or a peoples. That you on the left subscribe to the lunatic hatred of Jews in order to believe the opposite is pathetic.
Genocide? where is this occurring? I assume you are referring to the Israeli's defense of their people from their homicidal neighbors. Yes, innocent civilians dies on both sides. But the death of innocent civilians is intentional of the part of the muslim terrorists. They target civilians. Israel, on the other hand, targets the terrorist. It is the terrorists who like to set up rocket launchers in schoolyards or on top of hospitals. It is the terrorists who use the civilians as shields for their attacks. But I don't see you, or any other leftist, putting any responsibility on them.

Let me put it in terms even a liberal might understand: if you walk into my house hiding behind you wife and kids and start shooting at my family, I will grab whatever weapon is handy and shoot back. I will try to hit you, but I will do whatever is necessary to protect my family. It is YOU that put your family at risk, not me.

I also am not in favor of expansion by use of force but to answer your question and Moon's long winded legalese crap, it was Israel's neighbors that attacked Israel, not the other way around. Israel did not wage a war of conquest, it defended itself against people willing to commit genocide in the jews (Who is guilty of genocide?).
<<Response to trolling/insults>>I don't subscribe to your warped version of the world, but that's okay. Besides, I thought you liberals were supposed to epitomize "tolerance"?

[moon]

I also am not in favor of expansion by use of force but to answer your question and Moon's long winded legalese crap, it was Israel's neighbors that attacked Israel, not the other way around.I'm afraid that your Zionist view of history is as bad as your grasp of modern international law. The only war actually initiated by the arabs was the Yom Kippur War of 1973. On every other occasion- bar none- the Zionists attacked first. That's in addition to the initial invasion of Palestine, of course, and the ethnic cleansing program promoted by Zionist leaders such as ben Gurion and Jabotinsky.......
long winded legalese crapYeah-- ' We don need no steenking badges '....http://robertlindsay.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/our_badges.jpg?w=500

[MMC]

This page shows conflicts between the Arab nations (as a group), and Israel. As a rule, a legal state of war has existed between Israel (http://thepoliticalforums.com/nations/israel.html) and her Arab enemies since the beginning of the first war in 1948. Egypt signed a peace treaty with Israel in 1979, and Jordan made peace in 1994. The Palestine Authority, headed by Yassir Arafat and his Al-Fatah faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization negotiated a semi-peace, which, from mid-2000 on, has been destroyed through the "Al-Aqsa" Intifada violence. Other Palestinian groups, most notably Hamas, have been at war with Israel continuously. Although Israel and most Arab nations are technically in a continuous state of war, unless otherwise noted, specific outbreaks of fighting are considered to be separate wars.

Palestinian-Israeli Conflict (http://thepoliticalforums.com/israeli-palestinian_conflict.html) (1960-Present)--Israel faced guerrilla and terrorist warfare from several Palestinian armies, most of whom united under the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), led by Yassir Arafat. Current fighting involves Israel against more religiously militant groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad, as well as against Arafat's Palestinian Authority. (This includes the Palestinian guerrilla warfare against Israel from the 1960's, original Intifada (1988-1992) and the current "Al-Aqsa" Intifada (2000-Present), and the West Bank (2004) and Gaza Invasions (2006) by Israel and the Palestinian suicide and rocket attacks which prompted those invasions.

First al-Fatah (PLO) Raid (Dec. 31, 1964)—Yassir Arafat’s al-Fatah faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization conducted its first raid into Israel from Lebanon.

West Bank Raids (May 1965)—After Palestinian guerrilla raids resulting in the deaths of 6 Israelis, the Israeli military conducted raids on the West Bank towns of Qalqilya, Shuna and Jenin.

West Bank Raid (April 30 1966)—Israeli forces destroyed over two dozen houses in the West Bank town of Rafat, killing 11 civilians. This attack was in response to Palestinian raids on Israel.

The War of Attrition (1968-1970)--The War of Attrition was a limited border war fought between Egypt and Israel in the aftermath of the Six-Day War. It was initiated by Egypt as a way to recapture the Sinai Peninsula after losing it to Israel in 1967. A cease-fire in 1970 ended the fighting, but left the borders unchanged.

The Yom Kippur (Ramadan) War (1973)--In a surprise attack launched on the Jewish Yom Kippur holiday (the dates also fell on the Muslim Ramadan holiday), Egypt and Syria attacked Israel. Despite aid from Iraq, the Arab forces failed to defeat Israel.

The "Al-Aqsa" Intifada--Urban guerrilla/commando war waged between Israel and various Palestinian groups, including Hamas. Between September, 2000 and, September, 2007: 4,453 Palestinians and 1,114 Israelis have been killed due to the escalating violence.

The Israeli-Hezbollah War (also known in Israel as "The Second Lebanon War (http://thepoliticalforums.com/israel-lebanon_war_2006.html) (2006)--In response to repeated guerrilla attacks by the the Shiite Lebanese militia Hezbollah, Israel invaded southern Lebanon, set up a naval blockade, and launched a powerful bombing campaign in order to win the release of two captured Israeli soldiers.

The Gaza War (http://www.historyguy.com/gaza_war.htm)(2008-2009)--War between the Palestinian Hamas rulers of the Gaza Strip and Israel. Began in December, 2008.....snip~

http://www.historyguy.com/arab_israeli_wars.html

From the History Guy.....references and sources cited. Seems the The Rest of the World has those Real Facts down as well. :wink:

[Agravan]

I'm afraid that your Zionist view of history is as bad as your grasp of modern international law. The only war actually initiated by the arabs was the Yom Kippur War of 1973. On every other occasion- bar none- the Zionists attacked first. That's in addition to the initial invasion of Palestine, of course, and the ethnic cleansing program promoted by Zionist leaders such as ben Gurion and Jabotinsky....... Yeah-- ' We don need no steenking badges '....http://robertlindsay.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/our_badges.jpg?w=500

Israel has been involved in a number of wars and large-scale military operations, including:


1948 Arab–Israeli War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War) (November 1947 - July 1949) - Started as 6 months of civil war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947-1948_Civil_War_in_Mandatory_Palestine) between Jewish and Arab militias at the end of the British Mandate of Palestine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine) and turned into a regular war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War) after the declaration of independence of Israel and the intervention of several Arab armies. In its conclusion, a set of agreements were signed between Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel), Egypt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt), Jordan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan), Lebanon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon) and Syria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria), called the 1949 Armistice Agreements (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1949_Armistice_Agreements), which established the armistice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice) lines between Israel and its neighbours, also known as the Green Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Line_%28Israel%29).



Reprisal operations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reprisal_operations) (1950s - 1960s) - Military operations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_operation) carried out by the Israel Defense Forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces) during the 1950s and 1960s. These actions were in response to constant fedayeen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_fedayeen) terror attacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_attack) during which Arab militants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militants) infiltrated from Syria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria), Egypt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt) and Jordan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan) into Israel to carry out guerrilla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla) attacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_against_Israeli_civilians_before_1 967) against Israeli civilians and soldiers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelis). The policy of the reprisal operations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reprisal_operations) was exceptional due to Israel's declared aim of getting a high 'blood cost' among the enemy side which was believed to be necessary in order to deter them from committing future attacks.



Suez Crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis) (October 1956) - A military attack on Egypt by Britain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom), France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) and Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel), beginning on 29 October 1956, with the intention to occupy the Sinai Peninsula (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinai_Peninsula) and to take over the Suez Canal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Canal). The attack followed Egypt's decision of 26 July 1956 to nationalize the Suez Canal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Canal) after the withdrawal of an offer by Britain and the United States to fund the building of the Aswan Dam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aswan_Dam). Although the Israeli invasion of the Sinai was successful, the US (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) and USSR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union) forced it to retreat. Even so, Israel managed to re-open the Straits of Tiran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straits_of_Tiran) and pacified its southern border.



Six-Day War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War) (June 1967) - Fought between Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel) and Arab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab) neighbors Egypt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt), Jordan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan) and Syria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria). The nations of Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq), Saudi Arabia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia), Kuwait (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwait), Algeria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algeria) and others also contributed troops and arms to the Arab forces. Following the war, the territory held by Israel expanded significantly ("The Purple Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Line_%28border%29)") : The West Bank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank) (including East Jerusalem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Jerusalem)) from Jordan, Golan Heights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Heights) from Syria, Sinai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinai) and Gaza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip) from Egypt.



War of Attrition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Attrition) (1967–1970) - A limited war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_war) fought between the Israeli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel) military and forces of the Egyptian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt) Republic, the USSR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR), Jordan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan), Syria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria) and the Palestine Liberation Organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization) from 1967 to 1970. It was initiated by the Egyptians as a way of recapturing the Sinai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinai_Peninsula) from the Israelis, who had been in control of the territory since the mid-1967 Six-Day War. The hostilities ended with a ceasefire signed between the countries in 1970 with frontiers remaining in the same place as when the war began.



Yom Kippur War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War) (October 1973) - Fought from October 6 to October 26, 1973 by a coalition of Arab states led by Egypt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt) and Syria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria) against Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel) as a way of recapturing part of the territories which they lost to the Israelis back in the Six-Day War. The war began with a surprise joint attack by Egypt and Syria on the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur). Egypt and Syria crossed the cease-fire lines in the Sinai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinai_Peninsula) and Golan Heights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Heights), respectively. Eventually Arab forces were defeated by Israel and there were no significant territorial changes.



1978 South Lebanon conflict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_South_Lebanon_conflict) (March 1978) - The first Israeli large-scale invasion of Lebanon which was carried out by the Israel Defense Forces in order to expel PLO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization) forces from the territory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_involving_Israel



Looks to me like all these wars were provoked by terrorist organizations.
Tell me Moon, why do you liberals love backing murderous muslim terrorist thugs?
The Israelis have taken a barren piece of desert and turned it into one of the most productive ares in the region, yet you want to give it to savages in tents and camel dung houses who have no historic claim to the land in the first place.

By the way, which ethnic cleansing program are you talking about? Is it the one that gives muslims the right to hold high positions in the Israeli government? Is it the one that lets muslim worship and build mosques? Do muslims reciprocate with jews in their countries?
Tell me Moon, who is committing ethnic cleansing: The Jews who have the only working democracy in the region, or the muslims who have vowed ti kill every last jewish man, woman and child?

[MMC]

Excellent Agravan.....as you can see a State of War has always existed. All due to the Arabs inability to fully accept a peace. As you can see Israel is attacked and then they respond. The Arabs including the Saud and Sunni. All play the head-game......

As in one makes peace while the others do not. Then they attack again, and then they alternate their alleged coordinated attacks. While the Whole time the Palestinians engage in Guerilla Warfare and target civilian sectors with rockets.

We should get RW to weigh-in too. He is from the East and lets see how it is viewed from that part of the planet. MC is down in Mexico lets see what their History books say too. :laugh:

[moon]

There's nothing in your Wiki post which contradicts what I said; Namely;
The only war actually initiated by the arabs was the Yom Kippur War of 1973. On every other occasion- bar none- the Zionists attacked first. That's in addition to the initial invasion of Palestine, of course, and the ethnic cleansing program promoted by Zionist leaders such as ben Gurion and JabotinskyRoll them out individually and I'll demonstrate those facts. And ' The History Guy ' is a hoot !
As you can see Israel is attacked and then they respond. Zionist propaganda crap. They've been ethnically cleansing Palestinians since 1947 and their ' security ' wars have been cover for that ethnic cleansing.

[Agravan]

There's nothing in your Wiki post which contradicts what I said; Namely;Roll them out individually and I'll demonstrate those facts. And ' The History Guy ' is a hoot !Zionist propaganda crap. They've been ethnically cleansing Palestinians since 1947 and their ' security ' wars have been cover for that ethnic cleansing.

Obviously you are not reading what was posted. Every Israeli attack was in response to muslim terrorism.

You call it Zionist propaganda crap, but swallow every word of muslim/leftist terrorist bullshit because that's what YOU want to believe.
Leftists hate the Jews. Why is that Moon? Can you give me one reason based on fact and not feeling or leftist propaganda on why you people hate the Jews???

By the way, if Israel has been "ethnically cleansing" the so-called Palestinians since 1947, then why are there still so many left?? And why do many hold seats in the government?
No if you had just said "cleansing", I could agree to that since they likely never saw running water or showers till the Israelis put in indoor plumbing. (cries of "RACISM" in 3...2...1...)

[moon]

Obviously you are not reading what was posted. Every Israeli attack was in response to muslim terrorism.AS I suggested, roll them out individually and I'll demonstrate that you're wrong. We'll overlook the original invasion of European Zionists into a country wherein they were not wanted.

[MMC]

This is why I would like to see the East weigh-in and what they have to say. :laugh: As their History books say the same thing. So to does the Russians. Then South and Central America. That the Arabs know, there is no place to hide! :grin:

Notice the cry about the History Guy and his referenced and cited sources. Then theres Britannica, and Colliers Encyclopedias. Who knows the Arabs must be trying to write their own version of History! Would it surprise any? :rollseyes:

[Agravan]

AS I suggested, roll them out individually and I'll demonstrate that you're wrong. We'll overlook the original invasion of European Zionists into a country wherein they were not wanted.

Again, go to the link I posted. They ARE listed individually.
"Original Invasion"? You mean when they RETURNED to their original homeland? Is that the "invasion" you speak of?
So, if I leave my house for a few weeks and you move in, plant your garden repaint the house, etc, does my kicking your butt out when I return constitute an invasion?

[Agravan]

This is why I would like to see the East weigh-in and what they have to say. :laugh: As their History books say the same thing. So to does the Russians. Then South and Central America. That the Arabs know, there is no place to hide! :grin:

Notice the cry about the History Guy and his referenced and cited sources. Then theres Britannica, and Colliers Encyclopedias. Who knows the Arabs must be trying to write their own version of History! Would it surprise any? :rollseyes:

Hell, they'll probably succeed with help form our leftists. Look at how the leftists have mostly succeeded in re-writing OUR history.

[MMC]

Hell, they'll probably succeed with help form our leftists. Look at how the leftists have mostly succeeded in re-writing OUR history.


Nah.....we can placate Liberals with another welfare program to leave the History books alone and their never ending chant on Education and hiring more teachers. Problem solved. Just saying! :wink: :grin:

[moon]

Again, go to the link I posted. They ARE listed individually."Original Invasion"? You mean when they RETURNED to their original homeland? Is that the "invasion" you speak of?So, if I leave my house for a few weeks and you move in, plant your garden repaint the house, etc, does my kicking your butt out when I return constitute an invasion?You misunderstand. Discuss them one at a time and I'll demonstrate- with irrefutable evidence- that Israel initiated every conflict bar one. European Zionists didn't return to their homeland. They'd never ever been there. Palestinian jews are part of the indigenous Palestinian population- not the European immigrants. The indigenous Palestinians are noted in the British Mandate for Palestine and the United Nations partition Resolution UNGAR 181. You might care to desist from attacking Liberals as part of your smokescreen. It's irrelevant and transparent.

[Agravan]

You misunderstand. Discuss them one at a time and I'll demonstrate- with irrefutable evidence- that Israel initiated every conflict bar one. European Zionists didn't return to their homeland. They'd never ever been there. Palestinian jews are part of the indigenous Palestinian population- not the European immigrants. The indigenous Palestinians are noted in the British Mandate for Palestine and the United Nations partition Resolution UNGAR 181. You might care to desist from attacking Liberals as part of your smokescreen. It's irrelevant and transparent.

Irrefutable evidence? What, do you documents from the Israeli High Command stating that they plan on attacking and starting wars for the hell of it?
Were you sitting in on these meetings and have audio of them? Are you going to produce the individuals involved to discuss their roles in these discussions? Or is it because you muslim terrorist buddies pinkie swore that it's the truth??
What irrefutable evidence do you have that can't be just as easily dissected to prove that it is nothing but propaganda?

[moon]

Irrefutable evidence? What, do you documents from the Israeli High Command stating that they plan on attacking and starting wars for the hell of it?Were you sitting in on these meetings and have audio of them? Are you going to produce the individuals involved to discuss their roles in these discussions? Or is it because you muslim terrorist buddies pinkie swore that it's the truth??What irrefutable evidence do you have that can't be just as easily dissected to prove that it is nothing but propaganda?Less mouth and more action. When I say ' irrefutable ' I mean that I'll be producing links to certified historic documents which detail Zionist intent with regard to the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. So don't patsy around waving your Wiki annotation and squealing ' jew hatred ' . Discuss the first items in your list- the invasion of Palestine and the resulting 1948 War.

[Agravan]

Less mouth and more action. When I say ' irrefutable ' I mean that I'll be producing links to certified historic documents which detail Zionist intent with regard to the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. So don't patsy around waving your Wiki annotation and squealing ' jew hatred ' . Discuss the first items in your list- the invasion of Palestine and the resulting 1948 War.

Start. Go ahead and tell me about the invasion. I await enlightenment.

[moon]

Start. Go ahead and tell me about the invasion. I await enlightenment.

That's better. *It was just a matter of time before you opted for what you should have done in the first place. *

[Agravan]

That's better. *It was just a matter of time before you opted for what you should have done in the first place. *

Please, spare me the pomposity and get on with your first piece of "irrefutable evidence".

[moon]

No hurry. It's been irrefutable since the 1940's.

[Peter1469]

Moon is correct that Israel is currently recognized as Occupying Power, and has not lived up to the duties that such designation entail. He forgot to cite to the GCs though.

Many times Israel attacked first because to wait for all its enemies to strike it first would have meant utter defeat.

[Agravan]

No hurry. It's been irrefutable since the 1940's.

Ok, now that you're being called on your bullsh*t you say "no hurry"?
Just what I thought.

[MMC]

This page shows conflicts between the Arab nations (as a group), and Israel. As a rule, a legal state of war has existed between Israel (http://thepoliticalforums.com/nations/israel.html) and her Arab enemies since the beginning of the first war in 1948. Egypt signed a peace treaty with Israel in 1979, and Jordan made peace in 1994. The Palestine Authority, headed by Yassir Arafat and his Al-Fatah faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization negotiated a semi-peace, which, from mid-2000 on, has been destroyed through the "Al-Aqsa" Intifada violence. Other Palestinian groups, most notably Hamas, have been at war with Israel continuously. Although Israel and most Arab nations are technically in a continuous state of war, unless otherwise noted, specific outbreaks of fighting are considered to be separate wars.

Palestinian-Israeli Conflict (http://thepoliticalforums.com/israeli-palestinian_conflict.html) (1960-Present)--Israel faced guerrilla and terrorist warfare from several Palestinian armies, most of whom united under the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), led by Yassir Arafat. Current fighting involves Israel against more religiously militant groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad, as well as against Arafat's Palestinian Authority. (This includes the Palestinian guerrilla warfare against Israel from the 1960's, original Intifada (1988-1992) and the current "Al-Aqsa" Intifada (2000-Present), and the West Bank (2004) and Gaza Invasions (2006) by Israel and the Palestinian suicide and rocket attacks which prompted those invasions.

First al-Fatah (PLO) Raid (Dec. 31, 1964)—Yassir Arafat’s al-Fatah faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization conducted its first raid into Israel from Lebanon.

West Bank Raids (May 1965)—After Palestinian guerrilla raids resulting in the deaths of 6 Israelis, the Israeli military conducted raids on the West Bank towns of Qalqilya, Shuna and Jenin.

West Bank Raid (April 30 1966)—Israeli forces destroyed over two dozen houses in the West Bank town of Rafat, killing 11 civilians. This attack was in response to Palestinian raids on Israel.

The War of Attrition (1968-1970)--The War of Attrition was a limited border war fought between Egypt and Israel in the aftermath of the Six-Day War. It was initiated by Egypt as a way to recapture the Sinai Peninsula after losing it to Israel in 1967. A cease-fire in 1970 ended the fighting, but left the borders unchanged.

The Yom Kippur (Ramadan) War (1973)--In a surprise attack launched on the Jewish Yom Kippur holiday (the dates also fell on the Muslim Ramadan holiday), Egypt and Syria attacked Israel. Despite aid from Iraq, the Arab forces failed to defeat Israel.

The "Al-Aqsa" Intifada--Urban guerrilla/commando war waged between Israel and various Palestinian groups, including Hamas. Between September, 2000 and, September, 2007: 4,453 Palestinians and 1,114 Israelis have been killed due to the escalating violence.

The Israeli-Hezbollah War (also known in Israel as "The Second Lebanon War (http://thepoliticalforums.com/israel-lebanon_war_2006.html) (2006)--In response to repeated guerrilla attacks by the the Shiite Lebanese militia Hezbollah, Israel invaded southern Lebanon, set up a naval blockade, and launched a powerful bombing campaign in order to win the release of two captured Israeli soldiers.

The Gaza War (http://www.historyguy.com/gaza_war.htm)(2008-2009)--War between the Palestinian Hamas rulers of the Gaza Strip and Israel. Began in December, 2008.....snip~

http://www.historyguy.com/arab_israeli_wars.html

From the History Guy.....references and sources cited. Seems the The Rest of the World has those Real Facts down as well. :wink:



Any Problems with this Pete?

[MMC]

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story562.html

Think this is part of the picture that he talks about? Or should we go back to what they were saying in 1917?

[Peter1469]

Any Problems with this Pete?

Not that I can see.

[MMC]

Not that I can see.

Yeah, I didn't think so. I was just using something basic to prove a point. Even tho the History Guy uses several different Sources and references. Despite the times. There is nothing to dispute that the palestinians were engaging in guerilla warfare. Moreover they admit to their own confusion and fears over Jewish Rule.

[Goldie Locks]

Lefty's hate the Jews and side with the Muslims because they have the same agenda and that is the downfall of America. I always think it strange that most Jews are liberals and vote democratic, yet the dems always side with Palestine. Go figure.

[roadmaster]

Lefty's hate the Jews and side with the Muslims because they have the same agenda and that is the downfall of America. I always think it strange that most Jews are liberals and vote democratic, yet the dems always side with Palestine. Go figure.

A lot of the quote Jews here in America claim only this by birth. You and I both know if you have a Christian parent that doesn't qualify you as a Christian. Yes, most liberals will side with Muslims because they can't stand Christians and don't agree with the Muslims but they could care less as long as they put us in a dark light. Their problem is we have peace within our hearts and they long for it. Death to us is walking from one side of the road to the other, eternal peace.

[Peter1469]

Yes the lefty Jews are secular jews and buy into social welfare 100%.

[MMC]

Heya RW......Perhaps you could give a point of view from the East. As to what your History books Say Concerning the Palestinians and Arabs.