US federal debt is worse than you think

[Peter1469]

US federal debt is worse than you think (http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2015/04/08/the_federal_debt_is_worse_than_you_think_101610.ht ml)

RealClear Markets discusses the real debt that the US faces. It isn't new - I have been discussing this for years. All the author is doing is including the unofficial debt (social benefits) in with the official debt. So when we hear $18T we should be thinking around $220T.


Of all the failures of recent Congresses and Presidents, none is more important than their failure to deal with the nation's long-term debt. Although Congress tied itself in knots trying to address the problem, the growth of debt remains, in the words of the Congressional Budget Office, "unsustainable."

***


What's the word for our fiscal situation? Stunning? Shocking? Desperate? In recent testimony before the Senate Budget Committee, Boston University Economics Professor Laurence Kotlikoff, in effect, told the Committee that all of these terms are pathetically inadequate to describe our true fiscal situation. In compelling testimony, Kotlikoff argues that the federal fiscal situation is much worse than the CBO estimates let on. The reason is that CBO's debt estimates do not take into account the full financial obligations the government is committed to honor, especially for future payments of Social Security, Medicare, and interest on the debt. He asserts that the federal government should help the public understand the nation's true fiscal situation by using what economists call "the infinite-horizon fiscal gap," defined as the value of all projected future expenditures minus the value of all projected future receipts using a reasonable discount rate.

[Bob]

US federal debt is worse than you think (http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2015/04/08/the_federal_debt_is_worse_than_you_think_101610.ht ml)

RealClear Markets discusses the real debt that the US faces. It isn't new - I have been discussing this for years. All the author is doing is including the unofficial debt (social benefits) in with the official debt. So when we hear $18T we should be thinking around $220T.



***

Peter if you ask the poor to name the most important thing they can obtain they say money.

Ask the middle class the same thing and they say money.

The rich can afford to be nonchalant.

The rest can't be so cavalier.

But the Democrats don't care. This post by you has been up for close to 3 hours. I did not see it before because nobody commented.

The debt is a disgrace foisted on us by those in power. I mean congress.

[texan]

220 Trillion? or 22 Trillion?

[Bob]

220 Trillion? or 22 Trillion?

Ten times 22 trillion dollars.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFP-2_iDYMU

[Peter1469]

220 trillion? Or 22 trillion?

$220 t

[Ransom]

These unfunded mandates often discussed, it's why Exo remains on my ignore list, I've never met nor even heard of anyone who believes our debt is decreasing except for our esteemed member and misinformed poor soul. I just couldn't stand watching the train wreck any longer, my heart going out to someone who was clearly the victim of deceit. I sheared him bald before placing him on ignore, but whoever his teacher was, whomever convinced him of the 180 of the truth should be held to account..held responsible. Look what you did to this little lamb, Mary!!!

[zelmo1234]

Peter if you ask the poor to name the most important thing they can obtain they say money.

Ask the middle class the same thing and they say money.

The rich can afford to be nonchalant.

The rest can't be so cavalier.

But the Democrats don't care. This post by you has been up for close to 3 hours. I did not see it before because nobody commented.

The debt is a disgrace foisted on us by those in power. I mean congress.

And of course this is actually the difference between being rich and poor or middle class,

When you ask the rich what is the most important thing, they will generally tell you Time! And that is the correct answer.

Because the poor and middle class concentrate on money, they tend to waste a lot of time.

The old saying time is money rings true. Manage your time more constructively and you will become more successful, no matter your vocation.

[zelmo1234]

It matters little if the number is 18 trillion or 220 trillion, weather they are an elephant or a mastodon.

you tackle the issue that same way. You stop deficit spending, and you eat the elephant one bit at a time.

once you obtain a true surplus then the principle on the debt begins to go down! it took us 239 years to get into this position.

It might take that long to correct it, but with growth in the economy it becomes less and less of a problem

[Kurmugeon]

If you're correct, it only means that a dollar is worth 1/10th of what we think it is worth.

It means that holding dollars, or stocks and bonds based on the dollar, is pointless.

It means that holding onto the American Corporate Service job, expecting a meaningful and profitable career is a deception and sham.

It means that the fiscal collapse, civil war, anarchy, and purge of the wealthy elite is going to happen a decade or so sooner than we thought...

Oh Well...

-

[Peter1469]

It matters little if the number is 18 trillion or 220 trillion, weather they are an elephant or a mastodon.

you tackle the issue that same way. You stop deficit spending, and you eat the elephant one bit at a time.

once you obtain a true surplus then the principle on the debt begins to go down! it took us 239 years to get into this position.

It might take that long to correct it, but with growth in the economy it becomes less and less of a problem

You stop deficit spending and you change the unsustainable social plans to make them sustainable.

As far as the debt goes, we can't pay that off without hurting ourselves more than default on at least part of it.

[Peter1469]

If you're correct, it only means that a dollar is worth 1/10th of what we think it is worth.

It means that holding dollars, or stocks and bonds based on the dollar, is pointless.

It means that holding onto the American Corporate Service job, expecting a meaningful and profitable career is a deception and sham.

It means that the fiscal collapse, civil war, anarchy, and purge of the wealthy elite is going to happen a decade or so sooner than we thought...

Oh Well...

-

Anyone investing in US T bills today is a complete fool.

[Captain Obvious]

If you're correct, it only means that a dollar is worth 1/10th of what we think it is worth.

It means that holding dollars, or stocks and bonds based on the dollar, is pointless.

It means that holding onto the American Corporate Service job, expecting a meaningful and profitable career is a deception and sham.

It means that the fiscal collapse, civil war, anarchy, and purge of the wealthy elite is going to happen a decade or so sooner than we thought...

Oh Well...

-

Is that when teh ebolas get us all?

[Captain Obvious]

Anyone investing in US T bills today is a complete fool.

Interest rates are going to start going up soon - over the next 6-9 months. A gradual move from the stock market to bonds is maybe a good thing.

[nic34]

Anyone investing in US T bills today is a complete fool.

Why do china, GB and Japan want dollars? When was the last time the US defaulted peter?

[Peter1469]

Why do china, GB and Japan want dollars? When was the last time the US defaulted peter?

The various QEs were essentially defaults to a degree by devaluing the dollar.

At the rate we are going the USD will crash.

You invest in T-bills.

[MisterVeritis]

US federal debt is worse than you think (http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2015/04/08/the_federal_debt_is_worse_than_you_think_101610.ht ml)

RealClear Markets discusses the real debt that the US faces. It isn't new - I have been discussing this for years. All the author is doing is including the unofficial debt (social benefits) in with the official debt. So when we hear $18T we should be thinking around $220T.
***
We love our socialism. We long ago ran our of other people's money. This nation is doomed. If we do not fix the enormous political problems with an article V convention of states we will collapse. Arm up.

[MisterVeritis]

It matters little if the number is 18 trillion or 220 trillion, weather they are an elephant or a mastodon.

you tackle the issue that same way. You stop deficit spending, and you eat the elephant one bit at a time.

once you obtain a true surplus then the principle on the debt begins to go down! it took us 239 years to get into this position.

It might take that long to correct it, but with growth in the economy it becomes less and less of a problem
We will run out of time. This problem did not take 239 years to get into. It took about one hundred. We have just a few years to bring the federal government back under control. The promises come due now. There is no money to pay the promises.

[Bob]

And of course this is actually the difference between being rich and poor or middle class,

When you ask the rich what is the most important thing, they will generally tell you Time! And that is the correct answer.

Because the poor and middle class concentrate on money, they tend to waste a lot of time.

The old saying time is money rings true. Manage your time more constructively and you will become more successful, no matter your vocation.

I made a good deal of money working to make other people better off. My goal was simple. If I helped 1 person and made 3 percent for service rendered, at 34 I was over 100 percent. Key is helping people. And to help them, you must first know what you are talking about, be diligent for the client, treat them as family, and work for their gain. This builds great customer bases.

You apply it to property and I use property to apply it to people.

[Bo-4]

DOOM DOOM DOOM DOOM
GLOOM GLOOM GLOOM GLOOM
BOOM!!

https://dakiniland.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/doom-gloom-430x238.jpg?w=590

[Peter1469]

DOOM DOOM DOOM DOOM
GLOOM GLOOM GLOOM GLOOM
BOOM!!

https://dakiniland.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/doom-gloom-430x238.jpg?w=590
lol

[Bo-4]

We love our socialism. We long ago ran our of other people's money. This nation is doomed. If we do not fix the enormous political problems with an article V convention of states we will collapse. Arm up.

Arm up?
:biglaugh:

[zelmo1234]

If you're correct, it only means that a dollar is worth 1/10th of what we think it is worth.

It means that holding dollars, or stocks and bonds based on the dollar, is pointless.

It means that holding onto the American Corporate Service job, expecting a meaningful and profitable career is a deception and sham.

It means that the fiscal collapse, civil war, anarchy, and purge of the wealthy elite is going to happen a decade or so sooner than we thought...

Oh Well...

-

Let me know how that purge of the wealthy is going for you! You see it is going to take Gold to hire those armies and the poor don't have it!

It worked in days of old because the people could actually live off the land, that skill is dead and gone.

And even at 1 = 10th you stop over spending now

[MisterVeritis]

Arm up?
:biglaugh:
When the economic collapse happens it will happen suddenly. Whatever you have, including your life, will be available for someone else bigger, stronger or meaner, to take.

When people like you laugh I secretly wish I could be there to see you beg for your life when the time comes.

[zelmo1234]

You stop deficit spending and you change the unsustainable social plans to make them sustainable.

As far as the debt goes, we can't pay that off without hurting ourselves more than default on at least part of it.

That is why changing the social programs is so important,, and happens to be the #1 reason that the liberals that prefer socialism fight it at every turn.

And If you stop the deficits you can retire debt slowly, the natural increase in revenue would allow you to service rather than default. As other nations default this will cause un deserved confidence in the dollar and increase it's value.

If you were to turn the SS / Medicare, and Welfare system into wealth building programs you would see huge changes in the unfunded liabilities and starting in about 40 years, the elderly would start paying capital gains taxes.

This would happen at about the same time that the pay outs start to decline. and that money can be used to retire debt, slow and steady.

And last you now that it is under control you would be able to have one of those little check boxes that said I don't X amount to retire US debt. I could see a lot of Americans donating a little and that would increase the effectiveness.

Like I said it is eating an elephant. you are not going to do that in a day, or even a year. but it will start to make a difference.

[nic34]

Arm up?
:biglaugh:

We've been here before, 20 years ago with the Montana Freemen fiasco......

Rodney Skurdal, co-founder of the Montana Freemen: “This is a holy war. God’s laws vs. man-made laws."

[zelmo1234]

Why do china, GB and Japan want dollars? When was the last time the US defaulted peter?

That is true, when was the last time we were servicing an 18 trillion dollar debt

[nic34]

When the economic collapse happens it will happen suddenly. Whatever you have, including your life, will be available for someone else bigger, stronger or meaner, to take.

When people like you laugh I secretly wish I could be there to see you beg for your life when the time comes.

Yep, the killers and murderers will take over, I have no doubt.

[MisterVeritis]

Yep, the killers and murderers will take over, I have no doubt.
When there is nothing available the strong will take what they need from the weak. Go ahead and intentionally be that guy.

[zelmo1234]

We will run out of time. This problem did not take 239 years to get into. It took about one hundred. We have just a few years to bring the federal government back under control. The promises come due now. There is no money to pay the promises.

I agree with what you are saying. I provided a path that it doesn't have to happen. but I think you are correct that it will happen, because we have Children in DC that will not speak the truth to the American people.

So I prepare for the worst, and to be a blessing to all that I can, but hope for the best.

[MisterVeritis]

That is true, when was the last time we were servicing an 18 trillion dollar debt
The promises that are coming due add another two hundred trillion dollars. There is no money. What do you think will happen when that becomes clear?

[Ransom]

Arm up?
:biglaugh:

Visited a gun show recently, looking at a Henry Rifle. Love the octagon barrel, love the brass receiver, .357 caliber, beautiful rifle.

Anyway, I noted with alarm(my first show), the number of absolute thugs walking out of this show with serious artillery. Bushmasters, Walther PPS a favorite at the show as well.

Kept hearing "kit up" from some of the attendees, I asked the gentleman at the table I was looking at the Henry, what does "kit up mean", that mean arm yourself?

He said "Kit up for war"

I said "what war?"

He said "the one you don't wanna bring a knife to, Sonny"

I said "Oh"

"How much you want for the Henry?"

[Ransom]

Proud owner. Has anyone priced ammo recently...I mean wholly cow!

I wanted the larger caliber, Henry makes a dam fine .22

I wanted a larger caliber weapon...then I got over to the ammo tables.

Really?

[zelmo1234]

We've been here before, 20 years ago with the Montana Freemen fiasco......

Rodney Skurdal, co-founder of the Montana Freemen: “This is a holy war. God’s laws vs. man-made laws."

I don't remember a total economic collapse 20 years ago.

Remember this is not going to be pretty, we are talking about almost everyone that relies on the government for income. Workers and those on social programs. Receiving about 1/3 of what they were promised. and that 1/3 will not be worth as much, and you will have inflation

We talk about starvation in this country and have fat kids on welfare, but this is not going to be the case we will be talking about real starvation, we can only hope that it happens in the early spring so people can at least have a growing season.

[zelmo1234]

The promises that are coming due add another two hundred trillion dollars. There is no money. What do you think will happen when that becomes clear?

We don't have to wonder, it will be the same thing that has happened in Greece, with 2 exceptions.

#1 there is no nation in the world that can bail us out.

#2 we have 330 million + people.

Anyone that does take the few basic steps to plan for this is a foolish person.

[Peter1469]

That is why changing the social programs is so important,, and happens to be the #1 reason that the liberals that prefer socialism fight it at every turn.

And If you stop the deficits you can retire debt slowly, the natural increase in revenue would allow you to service rather than default. As other nations default this will cause un deserved confidence in the dollar and increase it's value.

If you were to turn the SS / Medicare, and Welfare system into wealth building programs you would see huge changes in the unfunded liabilities and starting in about 40 years, the elderly would start paying capital gains taxes.

This would happen at about the same time that the pay outs start to decline. and that money can be used to retire debt, slow and steady.

And last you now that it is under control you would be able to have one of those little check boxes that said I don't X amount to retire US debt. I could see a lot of Americans donating a little and that would increase the effectiveness.

Like I said it is eating an elephant. you are not going to do that in a day, or even a year. but it will start to make a difference.

Still disagree about paying back $18T. That is an impossible amount of money. Selective defaults can help. Like everything owned by the Fed.

[MisterVeritis]

Still disagree about paying back $18T. That is an impossible amount of money. Selective defaults can help. Like everything owned by the Fed.
The Federal government claims ownership of massive amounts of land. They need to begin auctioning it off. There has to be at least 100 trillion locked up in land.

[zelmo1234]

Still disagree about paying back $18T. That is an impossible amount of money. Selective defaults can help. Like everything owned by the Fed.

I do not disagree, but if the economy is double the size and we are still at 18 trillion and the unfunded liabilities are gone or greatly reduced? Then we will be OK Default would likely mean that end of the dollar as the world currency, and that is bad no matter how you slice it.

Now again I don't believe that the people in DC will make the right choices so we are going through default and at least a decade of living hell.

[zelmo1234]

The Federal government claims ownership of massive amounts of land. They need to begin auctioning it off. There has to be at least 100 trillion locked up in land.

To who, I don't want our enemies owning large tracks of land.

[MisterVeritis]

To who, I don't want our enemies owning large tracks of land.
We can certainly offer the opportunities to Americans first. Then allied nations. Never mind allies. Thanks Obama. Then neutral nations. Never mind neutrals. Thanks Obama. Then enemy nations, which these days is just about everyone.

[Bob]

We can certainly offer the opportunities to Americans first. Then allied nations. Never mind allies. Thanks Obama. Then neutral nations. Never mind neutrals. Thanks Obama. Then enemy nations, which these days is just about everyone.

A nearby city had a triangle shaped lot on a very busy main street. There were flag poles put up by the owner. You might not believe this but the flags were of the Communist Chinese. I seldom get there but hope by now the are down.

I just checked for photos since I know the precise place but find no photos. I would think if the flags were still up, photos would be available.

I know you guys don't give a darn, but this from Wikipedia has a bit about the 5 flags lot.

I will make sure you read it.


Hayward is served by Interstate 880 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_880_(California)) (also known as the Nimitz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester_Nimitz) Freeway), State Route 92 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_92) (Jackson Street) and State Route 238 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_238) (Mission Boulevard/Foothill Boulevard). State Route 92 continues west as the San Mateo-Hayward Bridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Mateo-Hayward_Bridge). The intersection of 880 and 92 was reconstructed over a four-year period, with completion of the project in October 2011.[64] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayward,_California#cite_note-64)[65] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayward,_California#cite_note-65) Mission Boulevard has been long known for chronic traffic congestion. Past proposals to convert Mission Boulevard to a freeway or build a 238 bypass have been controversial. One proposal, to build a freeway parallel to Mission Boulevard, extending a freeway south from 580 where it turns east towards Castro Valley, and connecting to Industrial Boulevard, had land purchased, but was cancelled after years of debate.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayward,_California#cite_note-contracostatimes.com-2) The land is now scheduled for sale and zoning.[66] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayward,_California#cite_note-66) Mission, Jackson, and Foothill all converge at one congested intersection south of downtown, known historically as "Five Flags" for a line of flagpoles located there. To alleviate congestion in the downtown area, the city has converted the A Street, Mission and Foothill triangle to one-way thoroughfares (counterclockwise), and is adding road improvements, landscaping, and telephone/cable undergrounding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undergrounding) to Mission Boulevard south to Industrial Boulevard, and to Foothill Boulevard north to 580.[67] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayward,_California#cite_note-67) The plan, the Route 238 Corridor Improvement Project, broke ground July 2010, com

I know that a lot of people that lived in Hayward hated the Chinese flags that flew there for some years. It pleases me they are no longer there. There was or maybe still is a gas station next to the lot and I bet they hated the flags.

[Bo-4]

Proud owner. Has anyone priced ammo recently...I mean wholly cow!

I wanted the larger caliber, Henry makes a dam fine .22

I wanted a larger caliber weapon...then I got over to the ammo tables.

Really?

What does ammo have to do with anything?

[MisterVeritis]

What does ammo have to do with anything?
A portion of the ammunition goes downrange toward the target when the weapon is fired. It is essential to arming up.

[Peter1469]

I do not disagree, but if the economy is double the size and we are still at 18 trillion and the unfunded liabilities are gone or greatly reduced? Then we will be OK Default would likely mean that end of the dollar as the world currency, and that is bad no matter how you slice it.

Now again I don't believe that the people in DC will make the right choices so we are going through default and at least a decade of living hell.

Once the dollar is no longer the world reserve currency we would not be able to deficit spend the way we do. It would help us.

[nic34]

I don't remember a total economic collapse 20 years ago.

Remember this is not going to be pretty, we are talking about almost everyone that relies on the government for income. Workers and those on social programs. Receiving about 1/3 of what they were promised. and that 1/3 will not be worth as much, and you will have inflation

We talk about starvation in this country and have fat kids on welfare, but this is not going to be the case we will be talking about real starvation, we can only hope that it happens in the early spring so people can at least have a growing season.

We've been thru this sky is falling crap before....

BTW, when money becomes no good, including worthless metals and weapons, it affects everyone that needs to eat and drink, not just disadvantaged kids...

invest in water....

[MisterVeritis]

We've been thru this sky is falling crap before....

BTW, when money becomes no good, including worthless metals and weapons, it affects everyone that needs to eat and drink, not just disadvantaged kids...

invest in water....
Unscented bleach and a handful of eyedroppers...

[Ransom]

What does ammo have to do with anything?

Like Obamacare, its' costs are skyrocketing for consumers. Why?

[zelmo1234]

We've been thru this sky is falling crap before....

BTW, when money becomes no good, including worthless metals and weapons, it affects everyone that needs to eat and drink, not just disadvantaged kids...

invest in water....

That would be good advice, like a well with a hand pump an LP generator wood burning heating systems and a good supply of LP gas. Heirloom seeds and canning jars, you know stuff like that

[del]

When the economic collapse happens it will happen suddenly. Whatever you have, including your life, will be available for someone else bigger, stronger or meaner, to take.

When people like you laugh I secretly wish I could be there to see you beg for your life when the time comes.


:rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
:rofl:

[Ransom]

:wtf20:

[del]

Like Obamacare, its' costs are skyrocketing for consumers. Why?

because loons at gun shows are buying it in 10k lots because teh obama is gonna take their gunz

[Peter1469]

because loons at gun shows are buying it in 10k lots because teh obama is gonna take their gunz

Obama has been the best free commercial for the gun and ammo industry in decades.

[Ransom]

because loons at gun shows are buying it in 10k lots because teh obama is gonna take their gunz

Been to one, del? See who is walking out with artillery? Kit up.