Cost of Living

[Green Arrow]

Bo-4, GrassrootsConservative, Common, Mister D, and I were having a discussion in an Obamacare thread about minimum wage and the ability of a single guy to live on $7.25 an hour. It was somewhat off-topic for the thread it was in, but there's a greater issue there that needs to be understood: the cost of living.

The cost of living is about how much it costs to live in a certain area. The cost of living includes rent, utilities, taxes, the price of gas and groceries, etc. The cost of living is extremely varied. You can have two people living in the same city and they will have two completely different costs of living. It also changes depending on how many people are in your household and if you have any pets. Understanding the cost of living and finding ways of reducing it or, at the very least, estimating a proper minimum wage for that area, is key to solving the underlying problem.

Now, Bo-4 suggested that the minimum wage should be $10.10 and not a cent less. I don't know how ten dollars and ten cents was calculated, but whatever, let's go with that number. In an area like Columbus, KS, or Chattanooga, TN, $10.10 would allow me to live like a king, and I don't think it's really necessary to be that high. However, in Bakersfield, CA, or New York City, NY, $10.10 probably allows for a basic level of comfortable living. These kinds of disparities need to be taken into account when calculating minimum wage, and why I support a community minimum wage rather than a state or federal minimum wage.

Back to cost of living. I can live comfortably in Chattanooga, TN at $8. When I last worked for $8 an hour at 40 hours a week, I was in the process of renting a house before I lost that job. I could have rented said house and lived there comfortably on $8 an hour. Was it a nice house? No, it was very small, but it was a house and a house in good shape and in a relatively good neighborhood. Someone in Bakersfield, CA, Richmond, VA, or New York City, NY can't live quite as cheaply.

[Hal Jordan]

@Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297), @GrassrootsConservative (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=478), @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659), @Mister D (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=4), and I were having a discussion in an Obamacare thread about minimum wage and the ability of a single guy to live on $7.25 an hour. It was somewhat off-topic for the thread it was in, but there's a greater issue there that needs to be understood: the cost of living.

The cost of living is about how much it costs to live in a certain area. The cost of living includes rent, utilities, taxes, the price of gas and groceries, etc. The cost of living is extremely varied. You can have two people living in the same city and they will have two completely different costs of living. It also changes depending on how many people are in your household and if you have any pets. Understanding the cost of living and finding ways of reducing it or, at the very least, estimating a proper minimum wage for that area, is key to solving the underlying problem.

Now, Bo-4 suggested that the minimum wage should be $10.10 and not a cent less. I don't know how ten dollars and ten cents was calculated, but whatever, let's go with that number. In an area like Columbus, KS, or Chattanooga, TN, $10.10 would allow me to live like a king, and I don't think it's really necessary to be that high. However, in Bakersfield, CA, or New York City, NY, $10.10 probably allows for a basic level of comfortable living. These kinds of disparities need to be taken into account when calculating minimum wage, and why I support a community minimum wage rather than a state or federal minimum wage.

Back to cost of living. I can live comfortably in Chattanooga, TN at $8. When I last worked for $8 an hour at 40 hours a week, I was in the process of renting a house before I lost that job. I could have rented said house and lived there comfortably on $8 an hour. Was it a nice house? No, it was very small, but it was a house and a house in good shape and in a relatively good neighborhood. Someone in Bakersfield, CA, Richmond, VA, or New York City, NY can't live quite as cheaply.

Let me tell everyone how I used to live on minimum wage with a spouse that did not work. We lived in Columbus, KS, and we were living comfortably, even being able to purchase items that we did not truly need. We had all of the food we needed, we had enough gas, we had all utilities we needed, we took trips every weekend, and we had no debt. All of this was accomplished for two people (and a very fat cat, 20 lbs) with only one income, and that was on minimum wage. Minimum wage has to vary based on location.

[Mister D]

20 pounds!? :shocked:

[Green Arrow]

20 pounds!? :shocked:

That's not a cat, that's a child!

[Hal Jordan]

20 pounds!? :shocked:

Yes, like I said, he was a very fat cat, yet still very active, especially when we threw milk rings.

[Mister D]

I wouldn't call it "comfortable" existence but you'd surprised by what you can get by on.

[Bo-4]

Good post and agree on the cost of living in different parts of the country.

But i'm sorry. A single person CANNOT live like a "king" for ten bucks an hour even in Chattanooga.

[Green Arrow]

Good post and agree on the cost of living in different parts of the country.

But i'm sorry. A single person CANNOT live like a "king" for ten bucks an hour even in Chattanooga.

Well, okay, that was a slight exaggeration. But I could live very well.

[Mr. Right]

Throw in a couple of kids and all bets are off.....unless you're getting a pile of gov. fundage.

[Mister D]

The truth is that this culture generates "needs" that aren't needs and encourages us to consume.

[Mister D]

Throw in a couple of kids and all bets are off.....unless you're getting a pile of gov. fundage.

I believe that was conceded.

[Bo-4]

Well, okay, that was a slight exaggeration. But I could live very well.

Are you channeling Gandhi or something?

[Hal Jordan]

I wouldn't call it "comfortable" existence but you'd surprised by what you can get by on.

You're right, you can. I got by on less than $8000 for the entirety of last year. I wouldn't exactly call it comfortable, especially after rent was taken out, but I got by just fine. In Columbus, KS, on minimum wage, I was definitely living comfortably.

[Hal Jordan]

Throw in a couple of kids and all bets are off.....unless you're getting a pile of gov. fundage.

That reminds me, when I was supporting a wife comfortably on minimum wage, we were't getting a single cent from the government. No food stamps, no welfare of any kind. We were living comfortably only on what I made, which was minimum wage.

[Green Arrow]

Throw in a couple of kids and all bets are off.....unless you're getting a pile of gov. fundage.

Right, that's all part of my point that the cost of living is very different depending on not just your area, but your household size. It's a number of factors, really, which is why the minimum wage should be community based.

[Green Arrow]

Are you channeling Gandhi or something?

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say. Neither does Hal Jordan, he's just as incredulous over the phone as I am.

[Mister D]

You're right, you can. I got by on less than $8000 for the entirety of last year. I wouldn't exactly call it comfortable, especially after rent was taken out, but I got by just fine. In Columbus, KS, on minimum wage, I was definitely living comfortably.

I've been there. I got by just fine. Granted, having excellent credit helps too.

[Hal Jordan]

I've been there. I got by just fine. Granted, having excellent credit helps too.

My credit isn't that great right now... Side effect of just getting by...

[Mister D]

My credit isn't that great right now... Side effect of just getting by...

I've always a good credit rating. It helped fill some gaps. My mom got me a Mastercard when I was in college and made me pay it off every month. Before I knew it I had a good credit score. I don't make a lot of money right now but my FICO score is still 740 or something like that.

[Howey]

I call BS.

Let's take my area.

If a single person works minimum wage of $8.25hr and works 40 hours a week (a rarity), that comes to $330 per week before taxes, insurance, etc. Let's assume a take home pay of $275. That comes to $1100 per month. Being a service industry area, I'd say that's pretty common.

A one bedroom apartment in an older complex or home here starts at an absolute minimum of $650 per month, plus utilities. Let's say $150 for electric and $100 for cable (over the air TV is unavailable here). That's assuming water and garbage are included in rent.

So we're already up to $900 per month. Add in car insurance of say...$100 per month for full coveraged, gas for your paid-for car at $30 per week and you have a grand total of $1120.

Oops.

[Bob]

@Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297), @GrassrootsConservative (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=478), @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659), @Mister D (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=4), and I were having a discussion in an Obamacare thread about minimum wage and the ability of a single guy to live on $7.25 an hour. It was somewhat off-topic for the thread it was in, but there's a greater issue there that needs to be understood: the cost of living.

The cost of living is about how much it costs to live in a certain area. The cost of living includes rent, utilities, taxes, the price of gas and groceries, etc. The cost of living is extremely varied. You can have two people living in the same city and they will have two completely different costs of living. It also changes depending on how many people are in your household and if you have any pets. Understanding the cost of living and finding ways of reducing it or, at the very least, estimating a proper minimum wage for that area, is key to solving the underlying problem.

Now, Bo-4 suggested that the minimum wage should be $10.10 and not a cent less. I don't know how ten dollars and ten cents was calculated, but whatever, let's go with that number. In an area like Columbus, KS, or Chattanooga, TN, $10.10 would allow me to live like a king, and I don't think it's really necessary to be that high. However, in Bakersfield, CA, or New York City, NY, $10.10 probably allows for a basic level of comfortable living. These kinds of disparities need to be taken into account when calculating minimum wage, and why I support a community minimum wage rather than a state or federal minimum wage.

Back to cost of living. I can live comfortably in Chattanooga, TN at $8. When I last worked for $8 an hour at 40 hours a week, I was in the process of renting a house before I lost that job. I could have rented said house and lived there comfortably on $8 an hour. Was it a nice house? No, it was very small, but it was a house and a house in good shape and in a relatively good neighborhood. Someone in Bakersfield, CA, Richmond, VA, or New York City, NY can't live quite as cheaply.

The last time I paid any worker $8 per hour must have been in the 1970s and when I paid a secretary. She was not very experienced and I was good friends with her parents.

I had a brother born in Bakersfield but I was 3. This makes me a poor judger of Bakersfield costs. Having spent money in NY City, I tend to believe it has a higher cost to live. Apartments there are staggering in costs.

Been to Richmond VA but again, not enough time there to claim I know the cost of living.

SF is a super high cost to live. Minimum wage is $11.05
Rents there can easily hit $2,000 so how they can survive on the minimum wage puzzles me. If you want a nice place, you spend over $4,000 for a good rental. Here in my city, we get rents of over $4,000 for the affluent homes.

[Howey]

You're right, you can. I got by on less than $8000 for the entirety of last year. I wouldn't exactly call it comfortable, especially after rent was taken out, but I got by just fine. In Columbus, KS, on minimum wage, I was definitely living comfortably.

At $553 per month average rent?

http://www.city-data.com/city/Columbus-Kansas.html

[Howey]

The last time I paid any worker $8 per hour must have been in the 1970s and when I paid a secretary. She was not very experienced and I was good friends with her parents.

I had a brother born in Bakersfield but I was 3. This makes me a poor judger of Bakersfield costs. Having spent money in NY City, I tend to believe it has a higher cost to live. Apartments there are staggering in costs.

Been to Richmond VA but again, not enough time there to claim I know the cost of living.

SF is a super high cost to live. Minimum wage is $11.05
Rents there can easily hit $2,000 so how they can survive on the minimum wage puzzles me. If you want a nice place, you spend over $4,000 for a good rental. Here in my city, we get rents of over $4,000 for the affluent homes.

Yes, Bobby...minimum wage can increase in high income areas. And quit making blanket statements about minimum wage. There are still millions of Americans living off minimum wages of far less than California's $11hr.

[Bob]

I've always a good credit rating. It helped fill some gaps. My mom got me a Mastercard when I was in college and made me pay it off every month. Before I knew it I had a good credit score. I don't make a lot of money right now but my FICO score is still 740 or something like that.

We use a variety of systems to qualify for a home loan. FICO scores like a 740 give you more slack than a person who has one of 680.

[Green Arrow]

I call BS.

Let's take my area.

It only took you two sentences to completely miss the point.

The point is that the cost of living is different even in different areas of the same city, it's especially different when you're talking totally different cities in totally different states.

You call BS on this, and then proceed to prove my point that is supposed to be "BS" by showing that the cost of living in your area is much higher than the cost of living in mine.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

[Bob]

Let me tell everyone how I used to live on minimum wage with a spouse that did not work. We lived in Columbus, KS, and we were living comfortably, even being able to purchase items that we did not truly need. We had all of the food we needed, we had enough gas, we had all utilities we needed, we took trips every weekend, and we had no debt. All of this was accomplished for two people (and a very fat cat, 20 lbs) with only one income, and that was on minimum wage. Minimum wage has to vary based on location.

If you believe in freedom, you do not believe in minimum wage laws.

[Peter1469]

Most people earn more than the minimum wage. Stop being dramatic.

I call BS.

Let's take my area.

If a single person works minimum wage of $8.25hr and works 40 hours a week (a rarity), that comes to $330 per week before taxes, insurance, etc. Let's assume a take home pay of $275. That comes to $1100 per month. Being a service industry area, I'd say that's pretty common.

A one bedroom apartment in an older complex or home here starts at an absolute minimum of $650 per month, plus utilities. Let's say $150 for electric and $100 for cable (over the air TV is unavailable here). That's assuming water and garbage are included in rent.

So we're already up to $900 per month. Add in car insurance of say...$100 per month for full coveraged, gas for your paid-for car at $30 per week and you have a grand total of $1120.

Oops.

[Bob]

Yes, @Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)...minimum wage can increase in high income areas. And quit making blanket statements about minimum wage. There are still millions of Americans living off minimum wages of far less than California's $11hr.




http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=1040853#post1040853)
The last time I paid any worker $8 per hour must have been in the 1970s and when I paid a secretary. She was not very experienced and I was good friends with her parents.

I had a brother born in Bakersfield but I was 3. This makes me a poor judger of Bakersfield costs. Having spent money in NY City, I tend to believe it has a higher cost to live. Apartments there are staggering in costs.

Been to Richmond VA but again, not enough time there to claim I know the cost of living.

SF is a super high cost to live. Minimum wage is $11.05
Rents there can easily hit $2,000 so how they can survive on the minimum wage puzzles me. If you want a nice place, you spend over $4,000 for a good rental. Here in my city, we get rents of over $4,000 for the affluent homes.



Do pick out my blanket statements. This I must see.

[Matty]

If you are poor cable TV is not a necessity.

[Hal Jordan]

At $553 per month average rent?

http://www.city-data.com/city/Columbus-Kansas.html

Our rent was much less than that, but with most of the places that were for rent being very nice houses, it makes sense that the average would be far higher. We had a studio apartment rented for $175 a month, then moved into a two bedroom house with a bit higher rent (around $250 a month, if I remember correctly). Most of the places for rent in Columbus are two story, multiple bedroom houses.

[Hal Jordan]

If you believe in freedom, you do not believe in minimum wage laws.

I disagree with that statement, but I also disagree that any minimum wage should be determined by the federal government. The needs of the people in the communities vary far too much.

[Mister D]

Yes, @Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)by...minimum wage can increase in high income areas. And quit making blanket statements about minimum wage. There are still millions of Americans living off minimum wages of far less than California's $11hr.

He just got done calling bull shit on the idea that it can be done. Apparently, millions of people do it. :smiley_ROFLMAO:

[Hal Jordan]

If you are poor cable TV is not a necessity.

This is true. I've been without cable many times (not including the times where it was unavailable for the area I was living in). Of course, when I was supporting a spouse on minimum wage in Columbus, KS, we had cable.

[Howey]

He just got done calling bull $#@! on the idea that it can be done. Apparently, millions of people do it. :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Perhaps the better word would be "existing". The reply was in response to Bob thinking everyone made the same amount as California.

Quit trolling.

[Mister D]

Perhaps the better word would be "existing". The reply was in response to Bob thinking everyone made the same amount as California.

Quit trolling.

The best word is "contradiction" :laugh: Howey, it's getting crowded under your skin.

[Howey]

It only took you two sentences to completely miss the point.

The point is that the cost of living is different even in different areas of the same city, it's especially different when you're talking totally different cities in totally different states.

You call BS on this, and then proceed to prove my point that is supposed to be "BS" by showing that the cost of living in your area is much higher than the cost of living in mine.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

Didn't mean to insult you, but...

Since I don't know where you live, I don't know what your cost of living is. I merely highlighted my area, which is way below national average.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/florida/daytona_beach


Is this thread intended to show concern for others or to make some kind of libertarian point?

[Mister D]

Didn't mean to insult you, but...

Since I don't know where you live, I don't know what your cost of living is. I merely highlighted my area, which is way below national average.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/florida/daytona_beach


Is this thread intended to show concern for others or to make some kind of libertarian point?

Maybe you should ask before throwing a hissy fit?

[Green Arrow]

Didn't mean to insult you, but...

Since I don't know where you live, I don't know what your cost of living is. I merely highlighted my area, which is way below national average.

http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/florida/daytona_beach


Is this thread intended to show concern for others or to make some kind of libertarian point?

The former, obviously. Which is why I said in my OP that we should have a community-based minimum wage rather than a state- or federal-based minimum wage, so that the minimum wage can be better tailored to meet the need of the people.

[Common]

@Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297), @GrassrootsConservative (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=478), @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659), @Mister D (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=4), and I were having a discussion in an Obamacare thread about minimum wage and the ability of a single guy to live on $7.25 an hour. It was somewhat off-topic for the thread it was in, but there's a greater issue there that needs to be understood: the cost of living.

The cost of living is about how much it costs to live in a certain area. The cost of living includes rent, utilities, taxes, the price of gas and groceries, etc. The cost of living is extremely varied. You can have two people living in the same city and they will have two completely different costs of living. It also changes depending on how many people are in your household and if you have any pets. Understanding the cost of living and finding ways of reducing it or, at the very least, estimating a proper minimum wage for that area, is key to solving the underlying problem.

Now, Bo-4 suggested that the minimum wage should be $10.10 and not a cent less. I don't know how ten dollars and ten cents was calculated, but whatever, let's go with that number. In an area like Columbus, KS, or Chattanooga, TN, $10.10 would allow me to live like a king, and I don't think it's really necessary to be that high. However, in Bakersfield, CA, or New York City, NY, $10.10 probably allows for a basic level of comfortable living. These kinds of disparities need to be taken into account when calculating minimum wage, and why I support a community minimum wage rather than a state or federal minimum wage.

Back to cost of living. I can live comfortably in Chattanooga, TN at $8. When I last worked for $8 an hour at 40 hours a week, I was in the process of renting a house before I lost that job. I could have rented said house and lived there comfortably on $8 an hour. Was it a nice house? No, it was very small, but it was a house and a house in good shape and in a relatively good neighborhood. Someone in Bakersfield, CA, Richmond, VA, or New York City, NY can't live quite as cheaply.

With all due respect 8.00 cant be lived on in 90% of the USA and Id like to know how many single people work for min wage as opposed to those with children. Single or married or with kids min wage is min wage. You may be able to live in Tenn on min wage as a single person. Id bet my donuts a single mother with just one child cannot.

Min wage is not just for single people, the min wage is insufficient and many years behind inflation.

[Green Arrow]

With all due respect 8.00 cant be lived on in 90% of the USA and Id like to know how many single people work for min wage as opposed to those with children. Single or married or with kids min wage is min wage. You may be able to live in Tenn on min wage as a single person. Id bet my donuts a single mother with just one child cannot.

Min wage is not just for single people, the min wage is insufficient and many years behind inflation.

Dude, I have never tried to say that anyone other than a single person living in my area can live on $8 an hour.

If you're going to respond in my threads, please try to respond to what I actually say and stop ranting on completely irrelevant points. I've acknowledged several times that a couple would find it nearly impossible to live on minimum wage if only one of the two were working, and that a family with kids would find it particularly hard. I am not going to keep repeating myself.

[Peter1469]

With all due respect 8.00 cant be lived on in 90% of the USA and Id like to know how many single people work for min wage as opposed to those with children. Single or married or with kids min wage is min wage. You may be able to live in Tenn on min wage as a single person. Id bet my donuts a single mother with just one child cannot.

Min wage is not just for single people, the min wage is insufficient and many years behind inflation.

Adults on minimum wage have lots of problems that we can't solve.

[Bob]

I disagree with that statement, but I also disagree that any minimum wage should be determined by the federal government. The needs of the people in the communities vary far too much.

WOW, that stuns me. I must not know you much.

When you agree to offer your labor or skills to any company, don't you first find out the wages?

By accepting the job, that is either by contract with the company or by agreeing to their terms and conditions in writing.

It is you and the company.

The community has no business at all in your decision to work for X dollars for Y company.

By what measure of freedom found in the constitution do you declare other have the right to interfere in your personal business?

[donttread]

@Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297), @GrassrootsConservative (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=478), @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659), @Mister D (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=4), and I were having a discussion in an Obamacare thread about minimum wage and the ability of a single guy to live on $7.25 an hour. It was somewhat off-topic for the thread it was in, but there's a greater issue there that needs to be understood: the cost of living.

The cost of living is about how much it costs to live in a certain area. The cost of living includes rent, utilities, taxes, the price of gas and groceries, etc. The cost of living is extremely varied. You can have two people living in the same city and they will have two completely different costs of living. It also changes depending on how many people are in your household and if you have any pets. Understanding the cost of living and finding ways of reducing it or, at the very least, estimating a proper minimum wage for that area, is key to solving the underlying problem.

Now, Bo-4 suggested that the minimum wage should be $10.10 and not a cent less. I don't know how ten dollars and ten cents was calculated, but whatever, let's go with that number. In an area like Columbus, KS, or Chattanooga, TN, $10.10 would allow me to live like a king, and I don't think it's really necessary to be that high. However, in Bakersfield, CA, or New York City, NY, $10.10 probably allows for a basic level of comfortable living. These kinds of disparities need to be taken into account when calculating minimum wage, and why I support a community minimum wage rather than a state or federal minimum wage.

Back to cost of living. I can live comfortably in Chattanooga, TN at $8. When I last worked for $8 an hour at 40 hours a week, I was in the process of renting a house before I lost that job. I could have rented said house and lived there comfortably on $8 an hour. Was it a nice house? No, it was very small, but it was a house and a house in good shape and in a relatively good neighborhood. Someone in Bakersfield, CA, Richmond, VA, or New York City, NY can't live quite as cheaply.

If you were totally independent ( no food stamps, no HUD, no Medicaid etc) on $8.00 an hour in this millenium then you are the exception to the rule. Rent could not have been much more than $500.00 a month

[Hal Jordan]

WOW, that stuns me. I must not know you much.

When you agree to offer your labor or skills to any company, don't you first find out the wages?

By accepting the job, that is either by contract with the company or by agreeing to their terms and conditions in writing.

It is you and the company.

The community has no business at all in your decision to work for X dollars for Y company.

By what measure of freedom found in the constitution do you declare other have the right to interfere in your personal business?

To a company? Of curse I do. Much of my business is with individuals, though, so I sometimes work that out with them after agreeing to do the job (only if I know them, of course). I say communities can have a say, because certain communities cost more to live in than others. In some communities, the national minimum wage (which I don't think should be a thing) is more than enough to live on, but in others (San Fran, for example) it doesn't come close. Personally, I don't even think it should be on as large a scale as the state, because certain areas of every state cost more than others. In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to have any minimum limits anywhere, but the world is not perfect.

[Common]

The minimum wage started in 1938 it was .25cts per hour. In 1958 when I got my working papers the min wage had quadrupled to 1.00 an hour.
This is what things cost in 1958, now tell me the min wage today isnt lightyears behind where it should be in comparison to costs.

http://www.tvhistory.tv/1958 QF.htm


A bit of history, England had a min wage in 1389 set by King Edward 3rd. The act was called the Ordinance of Labourers.

[Redrose]

Green Arrow

My first job out of high school was over minimum wage. MW was $1.00 p/h in 1965. My wage was $1.40 p/h which is about $8.00 in todays money. I was doing OK with that as I was living at home.

I changed jobs in the first 3 years out of school to advance and make more money. By 1971, I was 23, and making $4.25 p/h which is almost $25.00 p/h today. Very nice money for a 23 year old female with no degree (yet). I had two skills, excellent typing/steno and math skills.

We cannot expect to stay in an entry level MW job and remain stagnant and expect salary increases to keep up with our ever evolving lives and life styles and needs.

You get experience, learn new skills, get some education if needed and keep moving and advancing yourself to get a better paying job.

I commuted 2.5 hours each way to work. 5-6 hours each day commuting plus an 8 hour day at work. That's what I did to make a decent salary. No effort, no gain.

No real benefit is ever felt when MW increases. Sure you'll see more in your pay envelope, but the cost of everything else will increase due to the increased cost of doing business. So your net gain is zero. You might even be worse off, since some prices will go up more than the pay increases caused.

The only way to be better off is not to be a minimum wage worker. If that's all your skills can get you, the answer is improve your skill set.

[Bob]

To a company? Of curse I do. Much of my business is with individuals, though, so I sometimes work that out with them after agreeing to do the job (only if I know them, of course). I say communities can have a say, because certain communities cost more to live in than others. In some communities, the national minimum wage (which I don't think should be a thing) is more than enough to live on, but in others (San Fran, for example) it doesn't come close. Personally, I don't even think it should be on as large a scale as the state, because certain areas of every state cost more than others. In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to have any minimum limits anywhere, but the world is not perfect.


It stuns me to read those comments.

Don't understand how you can toss away the constitution.

[Bob]

@Green Arrow (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=868)

My first job out of high school was over minimum wage. MW was $1.00 p/h in 1965. My wage was $1.40 p/h which is about $8.00 in todays money. I was doing OK with that as I was living at home.

I changed jobs in the first 3 years out of school to advance and make more money. By 1971, I was 23, and making $4.25 p/h which is almost $25.00 p/h today. Very nice money for a 23 year old female with no degree (yet). I had two skills, excellent typing/steno and math skills.

We cannot expect to stay in an entry level MW job and remain stagnant and expect salary increases to keep up with our ever evolving lives and life styles and needs.

You get experience, learn new skills, get some education if needed and keep moving and advancing yourself to get a better paying job.

I commuted 2.5 hours each way to work. 5-6 hours each day commuting plus an 8 hour day at work. That's what I did to make a decent salary. No effort, no gain.

No real benefit is ever felt when MW increases. Sure you'll see more in your pay envelope, but the cost of everything else will increase due to the increased cost of doing business. So your net gain is zero. You might even be worse off, since some prices will go up more than the pay increases caused.

The only way to be better off is not to be a minimum wage worker. If that's all your skills can get you, the answer is improve your skill set.

California had a miniumum wage even in the 40s. I was only paid minimum one job, chopping cotton as a 5th grader kid.

I have hired many people. I don't shoot for the minimum wage type employees. i pay for skills.

[Peter1469]

I will say it again. The minimum wage is a red herring. Almost nobody is worth the minimum wage.

[Mac-7]

49 posts about the minimum wage and no one mentioned illegal aliens?

Wages responded to the law of supply and demand just like prices of products do.

There are too many poor people in America because that dumbass in the White House is letting illegal aliens come here and drive down wages for Americans.

[Mister D]

49 posts about the minimum wage and no one mentioned illegal aliens?

Wages responded to the law of supply and demand just like prices of products do.

There are too many poor people in America because that dumbass in the White House is letting illegal aliens come here and drive down wages for Americans.

That's true but the GOP is just as bad if not worse.

[Common]

That's true but the GOP is just as bad if not worse.

D could you live in Jersey on 7.25 an hour as a single man

[Mister D]

The minimum wage started in 1938 it was .25cts per hour. In 1958 when I got my working papers the min wage had quadrupled to 1.00 an hour.
This is what things cost in 1958, now tell me the min wage today isnt lightyears behind where it should be in comparison to costs.

http://www.tvhistory.tv/1958 QF.htm


A bit of history, England had a min wage in 1389 set by King Edward 3rd. The act was called the Ordinance of Labourers.

Common, the Ordinance of Labourers fixed wages because they had become too high after the Black Death. It didn't set a minimum wage but a maximum wage. There simply wasn't enough labor to go around in the mid 14th Century because the population had declined therefore agricultural laborers were able to demand much higher wages than they had previously received.

[Mac-7]

That's true but the GOP is just as bad if not worse.

There is no comparison between the morons supporting obumer and his policy of Come zone Come All and the republican base that steadfastly refuse to roll over to their leadership on amnesty.

[Mister D]

D could you live in Jersey on 7.25 an hour as a single man

It's $8.38 now.

Well, like I said earlier, I did OK. I shared an apartment with two other guys so my rent was only about $550. I wasn't working for cash though.

[Mac-7]

D could you live in Jersey on 7.25 an hour as a single man

How does Pedro the illegal alien do it on 6 bucks an hour?

[Mister D]

There is no comparison between the morons supporting obumer and his policy of Come zone Come All and the republican base that steadfastly refuse to roll over to their leadership on amnesty.

The GOP loves them some brown slave labor.

[Howey]

It's $8.38 now.

Well, like I said earlier, I did OK. I shared an apartment with two other guys so my rent was only about $550. I wasn't working for cash though.

So now the truth comes out...

[Mister D]

So now the truth comes out...

It's getting crowded under your skin.

[Mac-7]

The GOP loves them some brown slave labor.

You said there is no difference between Repubs and dems and I proved you wrong

[Mister D]

You said there is no difference between Repubs and dems and I proved you wrong

No, you just said I was wrong. Keep supporting a party that hates you. Shrug.

[Howey]

How does Pedro the illegal alien do it on 6 bucks an hour?

Good God. You are such a disgusting racist piece of sh*t.

Pedro does it by working two, three jobs a day slaving away at construction sites (hired illegally by rich republican businessmen), doing gardening work (hired illegally by rich republican businessmen), or other meaningless jobs American's wouldn't lower themselves to do for twenty bucks an hour.

Then they go "home" to a two or three bedroom dump they share with ten others just like them and get a few hours sleep to start over the next day.

Unlike people like you who do nothing.

[Howey]

It's getting crowded under your skin.

The truth being the misconception you can live alone on minimum wage. Sure, you can live on minimum wage if you have to share your living accomodations with two or three others.

[Howey]

The GOP loves them some brown slave labor.

Lightning strikes.

You finally got one right.

[Mac-7]

No, you just said I was wrong. Keep supporting a party that hates you. Shrug.

I proved you wrong

The whole chant of the 3 percent crowd is that voters don't matter but on the repub party we do matter

[Mister D]

I proved you wrong

The whole chant of the 3 percent crowd is that voters don't matter but on the repub party we do matter

Sure you do, Sparky.

[Mister D]

The truth being the misconception you can live alone on minimum wage. Sure, you can live on minimum wage if you have to share your living accomodations with two or three others.

No one claimed otherwise, Howey. You're trying too hard.

[Matty]

Good God. You are such a disgusting racist piece of sh*t.

Pedro does it by working two, three jobs a day slaving away at construction sites (hired illegally by rich republican businessmen), doing gardening work (hired illegally by rich republican businessmen), or other meaningless jobs American's wouldn't lower themselves to do for twenty bucks an hour.

Then they go "home" to a two or three bedroom dump they share with ten others just like them and get a few hours sleep to start over the next day.

Unlike people like you who do nothing.



Will you write your representatives and have them institute E verify and a tamper proof ID?

[Mac-7]

Good God. You are such a disgusting racist piece of sh*t.

Pedro does it by working two, three jobs a day slaving away at construction sites (hired illegally by rich republican businessmen), doing gardening work (hired illegally by rich republican businessmen), or other meaningless jobs American's wouldn't lower themselves to do for twenty bucks an hour.

Then they go "home" to a two or three bedroom dump they share with ten others just like them and get a few hours sleep to start over the next day.

Unlike people like you who do nothing.

So it's ok for Pedro the brown guy to slave away but not black and white Obama voters?

You are the racist.

[Chris]

Good God. You are such a disgusting racist piece of sh*t.

Pedro does it by working two, three jobs a day slaving away at construction sites (hired illegally by rich republican businessmen), doing gardening work (hired illegally by rich republican businessmen), or other meaningless jobs American's wouldn't lower themselves to do for twenty bucks an hour.

Then they go "home" to a two or three bedroom dump they share with ten others just like them and get a few hours sleep to start over the next day.

Unlike people like you who do nothing.


Howey has been Ted. Mac, stop provoking.

[Bo-4]

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say. Neither does @Hal Jordan (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=994), he's just as incredulous over the phone as I am.

Gandhi, you know.. living a happy, austere, spiritual existence on next to nothing?

Sorry i questioned your claims, but i still don't get it. When i was making minimum wage of 3 bucks an hour in the late 70's, gas was 65 cents a gallon. The rent nice three bedroom house on the beach cost me and two buddies a hundred bucks apiece. You could buy a ten pound sack of potatoes for a buck and nice steak for a buck a pound.

Three bucks went a long way then, and the minimum is only a little more than twice what it was in 1978 when money went at least 5 times as far.

But if you're happy on minimum wage or a bit more in 2015, God love ya.

[Green Arrow]

Howey has been Ted. Mac, stop provoking.

Howey has been Ted? Who is Ted and what does it mean to be him?

[Mister D]

Howey has been Ted? Who is Ted and what does it mean to be him?

I think Ted is Howey's boyfriend.

[Captain Obvious]

I think Ted is his boyfriend.

Sex acr originating in Wisconsin.

[Green Arrow]

Gandhi, you know.. living a happy, austere, spiritual existence on next to nothing?

Sorry i questioned your claims, but i still don't get it. When i was making minimum wage of 3 bucks an hour in the late 70's, gas was 65 cents a gallon. The rent nice three bedroom house on the beach cost me and two buddies a hundred bucks apiece. You could buy a ten pound sack of potatoes for a buck and nice steak for a buck a pound.

Three bucks went a long way then, and the minimum is only a little more than twice what it was in 1978 when money went at least 5 times as far.

But if you're happy on minimum wage or a bit more in 2015, God love ya.

I like to think I live up to Gandhi's example. I fail sometimes, but I try. I'm not a Christian and I largely don't care for the Apostle Paul, but one thing he wrote always stuck out to me. It's Philippians 4:12 - to paraphrase, I know what it is like to have nothing, and I know what it is like to have everything. I have learned the secret to being content in any and every situation, whether well-fed or hungry, living in plenty or in want.

[PolWatch]

TB'd....

[Polecat]

Gandhi, you know.. living a happy, austere, spiritual existence on next to nothing?

Sorry i questioned your claims, but i still don't get it. When i was making minimum wage of 3 bucks an hour in the late 70's, gas was 65 cents a gallon. The rent nice three bedroom house on the beach cost me and two buddies a hundred bucks apiece. You could buy a ten pound sack of potatoes for a buck and nice steak for a buck a pound.

Three bucks went a long way then, and the minimum is only a little more than twice what it was in 1978 when money went at least 5 times as far.

But if you're happy on minimum wage or a bit more in 2015, God love ya.

I marvel at the folks that are happy and content without care for material things. I consider them to be rich beyond what any bank account can offer. Back in those days Bo a budget was something you could work out on a napkin. There was no bill for television and being connected cost less than $10 a month. Insurance was something only people that had big assets needed to worry about. I spent my whole working life at or barely above minimum wage. Too stupid to know I was miserable I suppose.

[Hal Jordan]

It stuns me to read those comments.

Don't understand how you can toss away the constitution.

What I said is not against the Constitution in any way.

[Redrose]

If you are poor cable TV is not a necessity.


I've seen minimum wage workers complaining about their salaries not being enough to live on. One girl complained she can't afford a used car payment. She smokes two packs of ciggies per day. Add that up in a month and you've got a car payment. Screwed up priorities.

[Green Arrow]

I've seen minimum wage workers complaining about their salaries not being enough to live on. One girl complained she can't afford a used car payment. She smokes two packs of ciggies per day. Add that up in a month and you've got a car payment. Screwed up priorities.

That was the point I was trying to make earlier. Cigarettes are hella expensive and highly unnecessary. Last weekend I spent $25 on a bottle of Jack Daniels Tennessee Honey. Did I need it? Nope, but I had a little relief from my bills, so I decided to splurge just a tiny bit.

Am I going to buy that $25 bottle if I need the money to help pay my bills? Nope. Will I suffer without it? Nope.

Others have also expanded on this subject. We are an excessively consumerist culture and that is hurting our poor and middle class more than anything else.

[Bob]

What I said is not against the Constitution in any way.

So you say

[Bob]

That was the point I was trying to make earlier. Cigarettes are hella expensive and highly unnecessary. Last weekend I spent $25 on a bottle of Jack Daniels Tennessee Honey. Did I need it? Nope, but I had a little relief from my bills, so I decided to splurge just a tiny bit.

Am I going to buy that $25 bottle if I need the money to help pay my bills? Nope. Will I suffer without it? Nope.

Others have also expanded on this subject. We are an excessively consumerist culture and that is hurting our poor and middle class more than anything else.

Darn it

I have been holding off on getting a bottle of Makers Mark to try it out.

Stop this. I am losing will power. LMAO

[Green Arrow]

Darn it

I have been holding off on getting a bottle of Makers Mark to try it out.

Stop this. I am losing will power. LMAO

Maker's Mark is great. Do it! Memento Mori!

[Hal Jordan]

So you say

If you think it is, show me how.

[Hal Jordan]

Darn it

I have been holding off on getting a bottle of Makers Mark to try it out.

Stop this. I am losing will power. LMAO

You know you want to. Get it.

[Green Arrow]

Hal Jordan and I are like the angel and devil on Bob's shoulder. Only this time we're both devils :tongue:

[Bob]

If you think it is, show me how.

What is it?

[Bob]

@Hal Jordan (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=994) and I are like the angel and devil on @Bob (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1013)'s shoulder. Only this time we're both devils :tongue:

I understand Makers Mark is the very best

I long loved scotch And drank my share of good whiskey and bourbon

[Green Arrow]

I understand Makers Mark is the very best

I long loved scotch And drank my share of good whiskey and bourbon

I wouldn't go so far as to call it the best, but it is pretty good.

[Bob]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it the best, but it is pretty good.

Well Mr expert of all

What is the best of all then?

[Polecat]

Woodford Reserve is about the best I have ever had. The double oaked stuff is sublime.

[Peter1469]

Makers Mark is at the top of the big brands.

[Green Arrow]

Well Mr expert of all

What is the best of all then?

25 year old Bunnahabhain or Laphroaig top the list.

[Peter1469]

When you get into high end whiskey, it is personal like wine.

[Bob]

25 year old Bunnahabhain or Laphroaig top the list.

Makers Mark is not Scotch. I asked about the best Bourbon

[Bob]

When you get into high end whiskey, it is personal like wine.

Have you tried Makers Mark?

[Bob]

Makers Mark is at the top of the big brands.

That is what I thought too.

[Hal Jordan]

What is it?

You seem to think that my saying that the federal government should not have a minimum wage, and that if there is one it should be determines by specific communities, not even as high as state level, is against the Constitution, as you said in this post.


It stuns me to read those comments.

Don't understand how you can toss away the constitution.

I'm asking you, if it is against the Constitution, can you show me how?

[Hal Jordan]

I understand Makers Mark is the very best

I long loved scotch And drank my share of good whiskey and bourbon

If you ask a hundred people what the best bourbon is, I think you would get a variety of answers. I say get a bottle so you can determine where it ranks for you.

[Bob]

You seem to think that my saying that the federal government should not have a minimum wage, and that if there is one it should be determines by specific communities, not even as high as state level, is against the Constitution, as you said in this post.



I'm asking you, if it is against the Constitution, can you show me how?

Nah, you are okay. No problem

[Bob]

If you ask a hundred people what the best bourbon is, I think you would get a variety of answers. I say get a bottle so you can determine where it ranks for you.

As a rule, my drink tends to be scotch. Scorsby's is reasonable and still good.

Not the top rated but pleasing.

I have been checking on Makers mark and other bourbons for part of an hour. It is not cheap and one site says it is a very good beginning bourbon. That must mean according to price.

The way the flavor is described makes me want to try some. Smart and Final sells the .75 liter bottle for about $25

For ten dollars more, COSTCO has the larger bottle size.

[Hal Jordan]

As a rule, my drink tends to be scotch. Scorsby's is reasonable and still good.

Not the top rated but pleasing.

I have been checking on Makers mark and other bourbons for part of an hour. It is not cheap and one site says it is a very good beginning bourbon. That must mean according to price.

The way the flavor is described makes me want to try some. Smart and Final sells the .75 liter bottle for about $25

For ten dollars more, COSTCO has the larger bottle size.

What others rate it isn't as important as how you enjoy it.

I'd go for the COSTCO one...

[Bob]

What others rate it isn't as important as how you enjoy it.

I'd go for the COSTCO one...

Every time I get tempted, I stop to recall I do have type two diabetes. Alcohol is not good for diabetes persons.

[texan]

@Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297), @GrassrootsConservative (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=478), @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659), @Mister D (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=4), and I were having a discussion in an Obamacare thread about minimum wage and the ability of a single guy to live on $7.25 an hour. It was somewhat off-topic for the thread it was in, but there's a greater issue there that needs to be understood: the cost of living.

The cost of living is about how much it costs to live in a certain area. The cost of living includes rent, utilities, taxes, the price of gas and groceries, etc. The cost of living is extremely varied. You can have two people living in the same city and they will have two completely different costs of living. It also changes depending on how many people are in your household and if you have any pets. Understanding the cost of living and finding ways of reducing it or, at the very least, estimating a proper minimum wage for that area, is key to solving the underlying problem.

Now, Bo-4 suggested that the minimum wage should be $10.10 and not a cent less. I don't know how ten dollars and ten cents was calculated, but whatever, let's go with that number. In an area like Columbus, KS, or Chattanooga, TN, $10.10 would allow me to live like a king, and I don't think it's really necessary to be that high. However, in Bakersfield, CA, or New York City, NY, $10.10 probably allows for a basic level of comfortable living. These kinds of disparities need to be taken into account when calculating minimum wage, and why I support a community minimum wage rather than a state or federal minimum wage.

Back to cost of living. I can live comfortably in Chattanooga, TN at $8. When I last worked for $8 an hour at 40 hours a week, I was in the process of renting a house before I lost that job. I could have rented said house and lived there comfortably on $8 an hour. Was it a nice house? No, it was very small, but it was a house and a house in good shape and in a relatively good neighborhood. Someone in Bakersfield, CA, Richmond, VA, or New York City, NY can't live quite as cheaply.

Minimum wage was never designed for people to live on and that is the first problem imo of this discussion.

Bo says $10.10 because he is told what to say. Even Bill Maher on his show this week questioned this made up for TV crap: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/1010-minimum-wage/

The dems have been running around saying this for a while since a study came out they paid for and liked.

Our problem is we let business send the jobs overseas, the jobs Obama is creating (not all his fault but blaming him for being dishonest) are service industry type jobs with most in minimum wage industries. If you want to change things then you had better get some of the regulations off the backs of business and stop taxing them so much. I know dems thats just crazy thought right?

[Redrose]

That was the point I was trying to make earlier. Cigarettes are hella expensive and highly unnecessary. Last weekend I spent $25 on a bottle of Jack Daniels Tennessee Honey. Did I need it? Nope, but I had a little relief from my bills, so I decided to splurge just a tiny bit.

Am I going to buy that $25 bottle if I need the money to help pay my bills? Nope. Will I suffer without it? Nope.

Others have also expanded on this subject. We are an excessively consumerist culture and that is hurting our poor and middle class more than anything else.

There is nothing wrong with treating yourself once in a while. That is good for the soul sometimes. I do the same thing with a bottle of Drambuie. Its a treat.

It is wrong when it becomes excessive, I see poor folks buying cartons of cigs and a load of Lotto tickets. Dumb.

[Green Arrow]

Makers Mark is not Scotch. I asked about the best Bourbon

I was giving you the best whisky. Specifically the best bourbon...I'd probably go with Eagle Rare, but that's fairly pricey. Eagle Rare pairs very well with a pipe of good tobacco.

[Green Arrow]

There is nothing wrong with treating yourself once in a while. That is good for the soul sometimes. I do the same thing with a bottle of Drambuie. Its a treat.

It is wrong when it becomes excessive, I see poor folks buying cartons of cigs and a load of Lotto tickets. Dumb.

I think that goes back to our consumerist culture. I have never bought a lottery ticket, probably never will. I don't need millions of dollars of basically free money. I'm only interested in building myself up to being able to do the job I enjoy and want to make a career out of, and then live comfortably off of that.

Our culture puts too much emphasis on excess.

[Bob]

I was giving you the best whisky. Specifically the best bourbon...I'd probably go with Eagle Rare, but that's fairly pricey. Eagle Rare pairs very well with a pipe of good tobacco.

I checked out your brands and they are both scotch.

I got over the notion I might buy some bourbon. Thanks for the excellent scotches. Scotch happens to be my favorite. I have had both Glenlivit and Glenfederich as well as other fine scotches.

[Redrose]

I think that goes back to our consumerist culture. I have never bought a lottery ticket, probably never will. I don't need millions of dollars of basically free money. I'm only interested in building myself up to being able to do the job I enjoy and want to make a career out of, and then live comfortably off of that.

Our culture puts too much emphasis on excess.


There is no harm with a buck or two for the big jackpots, but this weekly stuff is insane.

Set yourself some goals and stick to them. Don't have babies until you can afford them, or at least better afford them. It does make a huge difference for all concerned.

I have one grandson who was in Phoenix, lousy job market. We convinced him to go elsewhere for work. He moved to NY and is doing very well. He's a computer geek, no college, but very smart. He found work easily. He lives in Queens, cheaper rent and takes the train into the city. His entry level position was $38k. He's 21. There is lots of room for advancement.

You're young, don't paint yourself into a corner. Look outside the box. It's a big country.

[Green Arrow]

There is no harm with a buck or two for the big jackpots, but this weekly stuff is insane.

Set yourself some goals and stick to them. Don't have babies until you can afford them, or at least better afford them. It does make a huge difference for all concerned.

I have one grandson who was in Phoenix, lousy job market. We convinced him to go elsewhere for work. He moved to NY and is doing very well. He's a computer geek, no college, but very smart. He found work easily. He lives in Queens, cheaper rent and takes the train into the city. His entry level position was $38k. He's 21. There is lots of room for advancement.

You're young, don't paint yourself into a corner. Look outside the box. It's a big country.

Oh, I already have a plan laid out for what I'm going to do. It took some time to fit all the puzzle pieces G-d gave me together, but He showed me how and I fit them together.

It's remarkably freeing, to know what you need to do and how to do it.

[donttread]

As a rule, my drink tends to be scotch. Scorsby's is reasonable and still good.

Not the top rated but pleasing.

I have been checking on Makers mark and other bourbons for part of an hour. It is not cheap and one site says it is a very good beginning bourbon. That must mean according to price.

The way the flavor is described makes me want to try some. Smart and Final sells the .75 liter bottle for about $25

For ten dollars more, COSTCO has the larger bottle size.

Back when I drank it was "old Grandad" on payday but "Benchmark" by the end of the week.

[Chloe]

My dad drinks macallan 18

[Peter1469]

Have you tried Makers Mark?yes

[Peter1469]

I checked out your brands and they are both scotch.

I got over the notion I might buy some bourbon. Thanks for the excellent scotches. Scotch happens to be my favorite. I have had both Glenlivit and Glenfederich as well as other fine scotches.

Go to Scotland. There are hundreds of Scotches and inexpensive.

[Bob]

Go to Scotland. There are hundreds of Scotches and inexpensive.

When I landed at Prestwick, I should have looked around for some.