The only real threat to America in recent decades

[donttread]

Has been American interventionism, or the predictable backlash to that interventionism. Period.

[Mac-7]

Has been American interventionism, or the predictable backlash to that interventionism. Period.

Disagreed.

The world would have been even crazier without our stabilizing influence.

[donttread]

Disagreed.

The world would have been even crazier without our stabilizing influence.

Really? Would 9/11 have happened? No. Would Iraq we in civil war? No Just two small examples I can keep em coming all day

[donttread]

Disagreed.

The world would have been even crazier without our stabilizing influence.

Tell me about all the imagined threats our interventionism has stopped?

[Ethereal]

The US seemed to get along just fine when it wasn't the self-appointed world police.

Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none.
--Thomas Jefferson

[Peter1469]

The world would have been a much more violent place without the US acting as a super power.

That doesn't mean that we need to occupy places. Reagan fought and won the Cold Word without any occupations.

[The Xl]

The OP is correct.

[donttread]

The US seemed to get along just fine when it wasn't the self-appointed world police.

Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none.
--Thomas Jefferson

If we could only bring ourselves to listen to the founders we'd be so much better off!

[donttread]

The world would have been a much more violent place without the US acting as a super power.

That doesn't mean that we need to occupy places. Reagan fought and won the Cold Word without any occupations.

How so Peter? without our interventions a pecking order would have been established and relative peace would of ensued. Exactly how much more violent could the ME possibly be anyway? And the cold war was 99% hoax. Neither nation was ever going to nuke the other

[Captain Obvious]

Really? Would 9/11 have happened? No. Would Iraq we in civil war? No Just two small examples I can keep em coming all day

Disagree.

I'm not supporting interventionalism, I'm with you on that point but I don't think that we would be free from those that hate western culture.

[Peter1469]

How so Peter? without our interventions a pecking order would have been established and relative peace would of ensued. Exactly how much more violent could the ME possibly be anyway? And the cold war was 99% hoax. Neither nation was ever going to nuke the other


There are lots of academic articles on the topic. Startpage it. Basically, had the US ignored the world there would have been many more wars and deaths than what we caused playing world cop. It is a well accepted premise and there really isn't a counter argument to it.

I agree with that thesis. But now we are broke. So we need consolidate and reorganize.

[donttread]

There are lots of academic articles on the topic. Startpage it. Basically, had the US ignored the world there would have been many more wars and deaths than what we caused playing world cop. It is a well accepted premise and there really isn't a counter argument to it.

I agree with that thesis. But now we are broke. So we need consolidate and reorganize.

For example without us pulling the Isreails and Palestinians apart one dog or the other would of won the fight. the same with many of the ME conflicts. Iraq would be still be run by a bigger dick than either the Sunnis or the Shitties but it would still be a nation vs. a whatever you call what we've left in our wake.

[Peter1469]

For example without us pulling the Isreails and Palestinians apart one dog or the other would of won the fight. the same with many of the ME conflicts. Iraq would be still be run by a bigger dick than either the Sunnis or the Shitties but it would still be a nation vs. a whatever you call what we've left in our wake.

not really

[del]

The world would have been a much more violent place without the US acting as a super power.

That doesn't mean that we need to occupy places. Reagan fought and won the Cold Word without any occupations.

lol

yes, he certainly won the cold word

[Peter1469]

lol

yes, he certainly won the cold word

Agreed.

[domer76]

Reagan fought and won the Cold Word without any occupations.

Barf

[Mac-7]

If we could only bring ourselves to listen to the founders we'd be so much better off!

Isolation ended before it even began with the US Marines in Tripoli fighting the Barbary Pirates during the Jefferson administration around 1800.

Your phony idea of isolation continued to not exist when Admiral Perry sailed into Tokyo Harbor in 1853.

I could mention the Spanish-American War of 1898, the subsequent Philippine Insurrection, the Boxer Rebellion and much more prior to WWII and the Cold War.

Sorry my friend, but America has never not been part of the world.

so stop dreaming that we ever can disengage from history in the making.

[gamewell45]

Disagreed.

The world would have been even crazier without our stabilizing influence.

I don't think it would matter to us in the big picture if the world was destabilized. Let them destroy each other as far as I'm concerned. It would only make the US stronger in my opinion.

[Mac-7]

I don't think it would matter to us in the big picture if the world was destabilized. Let them destroy each other as far as I'm concerned. It would only make the US stronger in my opinion.

You could not be more wrong.

The world is so interconnected that if the rest of it goes crazy our society will too.

Otherwise why couldn't we just ignore WWI and WWII?

[Common]

For example without us pulling the Isreails and Palestinians apart one dog or the other would of won the fight. the same with many of the ME conflicts. Iraq would be still be run by a bigger dick than either the Sunnis or the Shitties but it would still be a nation vs. a whatever you call what we've left in our wake.

There is no fight between israel and palestinians the palestinians would have been annihilated.
Everyone just forgets the first gulf war was because Iraw INVADED Kuwait and Saddmans army
was committing genocide and raping and pillaging. Everyone also forgets that our number one ally in that war was Saudi Arabia.
Iran invaded iraq before america was involved. The middle east would be more volatile without our intervention, however that doesnt justify the loss of american life over it and the debt its caused us.

America is always vilified and many times by some of their own. America has done some good along with the bad.

Were not to blame for mubarek getting deposed and convicted. Saddamns own people gave him a trial and executed him. Were not responsible for Khadafi being murdered by his own or whats going on in Syria. The middle east is a mess of their own doing, they are a violent murderous bunch that use their religion as an excuse to commit whatever havoc they choose. That is NOT americas fault.

To be honest I get sick and tired of americans blaming america for every damn problem everywhere.
We certainly are not perfect and weve done lots of bad shit. But it wasnt all bad

[Peter1469]

Barf

lol

[Common]

Barf

lmao

[Peter1469]

Yes it is funny.

[Common]

Yes it is funny.

Just one 4 letter word but so descriptive, funny

[donttread]

not really

Chaos has followed our interventionism in Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan

[Peter1469]

Chaos has followed our interventionism in Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan

Agree on that point.

[Peter1469]

Who knows how many more wars would have happened in Europe without our presence. And that is a much more relevant part of the world.

[MisterVeritis]

Has been American interventionism, or the predictable backlash to that interventionism. Period.
I was expecting to see the rise of the massive, intrusive, domineering federal government. That is the greatest threat to the individual American. The collectivists and drones love power's centralization.

[Ethereal]

Isolation ended before it even began with the US Marines in Tripoli fighting the Barbary Pirates during the Jefferson administration around 1800.

Good thing nobody is advocating isolationism.

[gamewell45]

You could not be more wrong.

The world is so interconnected that if the rest of it goes crazy our society will too.

Otherwise why couldn't we just ignore WWI and WWII?

They were different times; Great Britain, France, Germany had vast empires; today that isn't the case.

Furthermore, particularly WW II we were directly attacked by Japan (leaving us with no choice), who filed articles of war against us as we likewise did against them and Germany, something the United States has conveniently failed to do since WWII when it came to invading other countries.

If the world is so interconnected, then perhaps its time the US disconnect with the rest of the world. I believe we can do just fine without the rest of the world. On the other hand it appears that the rest of the world cannot do without the US.

[The Xl]

Disagree.

I'm not supporting interventionalism, I'm with you on that point but I don't think that we would be free from those that hate western culture.

Those who hate us and our culture barely do anything about it despite having legitimate grievances due to our interventionism. It's hard to see 9/11 happening or any of our issues in general existing if not for our meddling.

[Mac-7]

Good thing nobody is advocating isolationism.

Except for the 3 percent libertarian crowd who complain about everything America does beyond our shores.

That probably includes you since you went out of your way to deny it.

[Mac-7]

They were different times; Great Britain, France, Germany had vast empires; today that isn't the case.

Furthermore, particularly WW II we were directly attacked by Japan (leaving us with no choice), who filed articles of war against us as we likewise did against them and Germany, something the United States has conveniently failed to do since WWII when it came to invading other countries.

If the world is so interconnected, then perhaps its time the US disconnect with the rest of the world. I believe we can do just fine without the rest of the world. On the other hand it appears that the rest of the world cannot do without the US.

Do you think our involvement in world affairs began on Dec 7, 1941?

It didn't.

We were fully engaged overseas before we entered the war.

[Peter1469]

Except for the 3 percent libertarian crowd who complain about everything America does beyond our shores.

That probably includes you since you went out of your way to deny it.

Donttread is the only one to clearly advocate isolationism.

[Ethereal]

Except for the 3 percent libertarian crowd who complain about everything America does beyond our shores.

That probably includes you since you went out of your way to deny it.

And you are probably a Nazi, because, well, I say so.

[Beevee]

Disagreed.

The world would have been even crazier without our stabilizing influence.

Indeed. We on the outside have learned that it isn't advisable to deputise septuagenarians who pay oodles of cash to play at being a cop and shooting black men for pleasure.

[Mac-7]

Indeed. We on the outside have learned that it isn't advisable to deputise septuagenarians who pay oodles of cash to play at being a cop and shooting black men for pleasure.

As you say, you are an outsider.

[Beevee]

As you say, you are an outsider.

Lucky me. When do you think any luck might come your way? Such as not having to flinch every time a car muffler backfires?

[donttread]

Those who hate us and our culture barely do anything about it despite having legitimate grievances due to our interventionism. It's hard to see 9/11 happening or any of our issues in general existing if not for our meddling.

At some point a choice was made to fight wars, support coups, and generally fuck with the fates of multiple nations for a commodity we had enough of to work with in order to make Exxom, BP, et al rich.
This was in direct conflict with both common sense and "National Security" . A much better, safer approach would have been to ban oil exports and imprts in the 70's, freeze fossil fuel usage at say 1979 levels and promoted the slow , steady development of alternate energy. That would have avoided wars, terrorist, 9/11 and so much more . Another reason why the megacorps must die for freedom to live

[Peter1469]

The US has been an empire since 1945 whether we like it or not.

[Blackrook]

I think the general decline in morality is the biggest threat to America.

With the advent of the birth control pill, we saw loosening of sexual mores, a skyrocketing of the divorce rate, a "hook up" culture of sex between strangers, more than 1 million abortions per year, a breakdown of the American family, fatherless homes, drug and alcohol abuse at epidemic levels, and an abandonment of traditional religion and the Ten Commandments.

The threat of terrorism is only a blip on the radar compared to the destruction we have done to ourselves and our families and our children.

[Peter1469]

The decline of morality has been blamed for the fall of empires and nations for all of human history. I suspect it doesn't play a very large role most of the time.

[MisterVeritis]

Chaos has followed our interventionism in Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan
One must fight to win if one is going to fight.

[Ivan88]

America's worst enemies are Congress and ourselves.

[Mac-7]

America's worst enemies are Congress and ourselves.

I would nominate libs, aka liberals, libertines and libertarians.

[Peter1469]

I would label the low church conservatives who are dumb enough to be dangerous.