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View Full Version : Running Out of Options, Euro Zone May Face a Stark Choice



Peter1469
07-06-2012, 05:00 PM
http://www.cnbc.com/id/48094098

As I have said for a year (or longer) now..... Debt spending can be helpful, so long as you pay it back and don't pile it up.

michaelr
07-06-2012, 06:26 PM
http://www.cnbc.com/id/48094098

As I have said for a year (or longer) now..... Debt spending can be helpful, so long as you pay it back and don't pile it up.

Have you been keeping up on the LIBOR rate scam?

Peter1469
07-06-2012, 06:52 PM
Have you been keeping up on the LIBOR rate scam?

Yes. Some are saying it is the worst scam in economic history. It, however, pales in comparison to the derivative market created by Goldman Sachs. That amounts to over $750T in near worthless paper.

Shoot the Goose
07-06-2012, 08:56 PM
Have you been keeping up on the LIBOR rate scam?

What does that have to do with European debt to itself ?

Start an new thread.

michaelr
07-06-2012, 09:09 PM
Yes. Some are saying it is the worst scam in economic history. It, however, pales in comparison to the derivative market created by Goldman Sachs. That amounts to over $750T in near worthless paper.

It actually manipulate the derivative return. It helped sale this worthless paper.


They are going to start a CDS freeze. This takes the derivative market out.

401's and the like are gone.

michaelr
07-06-2012, 09:10 PM
What does that have to do with European debt to itself ?

Start an new thread.

What I have to say is pertinent to your topic.

Peter1469
07-06-2012, 09:16 PM
It actually manipulate the derivative return. It helped sale this worthless paper.


They are going to start a CDS freeze. This takes the derivative market out.

401's and the like are gone.


That is bad.

Peter1469
07-06-2012, 09:16 PM
What I have to say is pertinent to your topic.

It certainly is part of the mix.

roadmaster
07-06-2012, 11:45 PM
401's and the like are gone. They are not safe anymore.

Carygrant
07-07-2012, 01:11 AM
The Libor so called scam is at the heart of global banking woes and in itself is indefensible .
However , consider the following scenario :-
A key reason for Banking troubles --along with over inflated prices in the domestic and commercial property markets --- was toxicity resulting from unbelievably dishonest derivatives .
In total this meant that an honest record of banks positions in '07/08 would have shown that global banking had collapsed . This was one of the reasons that American Banks were allowed to show assets at any price up to their original paper value -- regardless of the real ruling position . Changes in acceptable Accounting practises .
One way to provide a huge influx of funds for re-capitalisation was minor adjustments to inter banking lending rates which then obviously spread to all further borrowing and lending rates.
My suspicion is that every major bank in the EU and US ( probably even wider ) was doing exactly the same and they were in close contact with each other both nationally and internationally .
Such action delayed defaults that would have set the developed world back devastatingly .
As yet , there is no evidence that I know of which incriminates more than the Barclays and RBS .

The evidence "I " am missing will not be readily forthcoming for obvious reasons --- but that is what I believe happened and it has little to do with "greed " or conspiracy". It was pragmatism or real politics in times which were frighteningly awful .
As ever , one or a few pawns will have to be sacrificed -- --- fall guys .

Peter1469
07-07-2012, 08:17 AM
They are not safe anymore.

I am worried about the plan to nationalize 401Ks and turn them into government run annuities.

Peter1469
07-07-2012, 08:19 AM
The Libor so called scam is at the heart of global banking woes and in itself is indefensible .
However , consider the following scenario :-
A key reason for Banking troubles --along with over inflated prices in the domestic and commercial property markets --- was toxicity resulting from unbelievably dishonest derivatives .
In total this meant that an honest record of banks positions in '07/08 would have shown that global banking had collapsed . This was one of the reasons that American Banks were allowed to show assets at any price up to their original paper value -- regardless of the real ruling position . Changes in acceptable Accounting practises .
One way to provide a huge influx of funds for re-capitalisation was minor adjustments to inter banking lending rates which then obviously spread to all further borrowing and lending rates.
My suspicion is that every major bank in the EU and US ( probably even wider ) was doing exactly the same and they were in close contact with each other both nationally and internationally .
Such action delayed defaults that would have set the developed world back devastatingly .
As yet , there is no evidence that I know of which incriminates more than the Barclays and RBS .

The evidence "I " am missing will not be readily forthcoming for obvious reasons --- but that is what I believe happened and it has little to do with "greed " or conspiracy". It was pragmatism or real politics in times which were frighteningly awful .
As ever , one or a few pawns will have to be sacrificed -- --- fall guys .

Absolutely correct. If the books weren't cooked, most banks in the US and Europe would be bust.

michaelr
07-07-2012, 09:51 AM
The Libor so called scam is at the heart of global banking woes and in itself is indefensible .
However , consider the following scenario :-
A key reason for Banking troubles --along with over inflated prices in the domestic and commercial property markets --- was toxicity resulting from unbelievably dishonest derivatives .
In total this meant that an honest record of banks positions in '07/08 would have shown that global banking had collapsed . This was one of the reasons that American Banks were allowed to show assets at any price up to their original paper value -- regardless of the real ruling position . Changes in acceptable Accounting practises .
One way to provide a huge influx of funds for re-capitalisation was minor adjustments to inter banking lending rates which then obviously spread to all further borrowing and lending rates.
My suspicion is that every major bank in the EU and US ( probably even wider ) was doing exactly the same and they were in close contact with each other both nationally and internationally .
Such action delayed defaults that would have set the developed world back devastatingly .
As yet , there is no evidence that I know of which incriminates more than the Barclays and RBS .

The evidence "I " am missing will not be readily forthcoming for obvious reasons --- but that is what I believe happened and it has little to do with "greed " or conspiracy". It was pragmatism or real politics in times which were frighteningly awful .
As ever , one or a few pawns will have to be sacrificed -- --- fall guys .

JP and Citi just got dragged into it. This is still happening and I think it is Belgium that just went negative rate. That will become common place soon enough.

michaelr
07-07-2012, 09:53 AM
I am worried about the plan to nationalize 401Ks and turn them into government run annuities.

Dude, your 401's aren't happening. They were started to "prove" the validity of the MBS. They are leveraged to the moon and back, and to pay them off in mass will have the same effect if all the mortgages were paid, a collapse that will be heard to the far reaches of the universe.

michaelr
07-07-2012, 10:16 AM
JP and Citi just got dragged into it. This is still happening and I think it is Belgium that just went negative rate. That will become common place soon enough.

I have to correct an error that I made. It is Denmark that went went negative rate. Me hates making mistakes...

UPDATE 3-Denmark sets a negative rate for first time (http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/05/denmark-rates-idINL6E8I5A8520120705)