1st intergrated Ranger School

[Peter1469]

1st integrated Ranger School (http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/04/20/women-ranger-school-pt-test/26088039/)

Today, the first Ranger school course to include women started. As with most Army schools, it starts with a physical fitness test. 399 Soldiers started the course. Of those 19 were women.

81 failed the PT test. Only 3 of those were women. Note, the PT standards are different based on sex and age. But not a bad showing for team Women.

The average pass rate for Ranger School is 45%.

[Mac-7]

With different physical standards for women the Rangers will be less combat ready in the future.

[Peter1469]

With different physical standards for women the Rangers will be less combat ready in the future.

If any women pass the school they will be awarded the Ranger tab. They will not be assigned to the Regiment.

[texan]

I like that you watch this stuff closely. You report I decide......

[Cthulhu]

1st integrated Ranger School (http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/04/20/women-ranger-school-pt-test/26088039/)

Today, the first Ranger school course to include women started. As with most Army schools, it starts with a physical fitness test. 399 Soldiers started the course. Of those 19 were women.

81 failed the PT test. Only 3 of those were women. Note, the PT standards are different based on sex and age. But not a bad showing for team Women.

The average pass rate for Ranger School is 45%.
Hooray.... More petri dishes for social engineering fairness fairies.

Sent from my evil, kitten eating cell phone.

[metheron]

Do you think women will fare better in Ranger school or Marine infantry officer school?

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/04/10/no-women-pass-marines-infantry-officer-school-by-experiments-end.html

[Peter1469]

Do you think women will fare better in Ranger school or Marine infantry officer school?

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/04/10/no-women-pass-marines-infantry-officer-school-by-experiments-end.html

I think it will be the same result.

[metheron]

I think it will be the same result.

A fix might be coming though.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/19/marine-corps-weighs-lower-standards-for-women-afte/#!

[Peter1469]

A fix might be coming though.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/19/marine-corps-weighs-lower-standards-for-women-afte/#!

It is bull shit. The standard is already drastically different between men and women. Google APFT test and look for yourself the difference between male and female standards.

Women are not going to perform in a light infantry environment. It is not possible.

[metheron]

It is bull $#@!. The standard is already drastically different between men and women. Google APFT test and look for yourself the difference between male and female standards.

Women are not going to perform in a light infantry environment. It is not possible.

I don't disagree. I spent 3 years as an Army infantryman. I don't have a dog in the fight over whether or not they let women be a part of the infantry. But standards should be set based on keeping soldiers alive. Period. Not based on who can or can't get in.
And I am all for re-evaluating those standards on a regular basis. But doing it because women can't pass the schools seem a bit suspect. I have known several people that were rejected from Ranger school due to their rigorous demands. One guy twice broke his leg on jumps and was not allow to try again. They didn't like it, but it was the standards. No one was fighting to lower the standards for them.

[Bob]

It is bull shit. The standard is already drastically different between men and women. Google APFT test and look for yourself the difference between male and female standards.

Women are not going to perform in a light infantry environment. It is not possible.

You would think women would be ultra pleased not to be in an infantry environment.

I mean, why put up with such things?

[Peter1469]

You would think women would be ultra pleased not to be in an infantry environment.

I mean, why put up with such things?

right! :wink:

[Mac-7]

You would think women would be ultra pleased not to be in an infantry environment.

I mean, why put up with such things?

The lib dream is for the next Patton to be a female.

[del]

The lib dream is for the next Patton to be a female.

you're a really strange individual

[Peter1469]

you're a really strange individual

He doesn't like lib, lib, lib

Whatever that is. Odd duck.

[Mac-7]

you're a really strange individual

You may have heard of women's libber's.

They have been around for a while.

[Bob]

you're a really strange individual

He does not have a fug-ugly emu for an avatar at least.

[Mac-7]

He does not have a fug-ugly emu for an avatar at least.

Thanks Bob.

But I hope I have distinguished myself from that guy in more ways than that.

[Bob]

Thanks Bob.

But I hope I have distinguished myself from that guy in more ways than that.

You have Mac-7, indeed you have.

[Peter1469]

Update. (http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/04/23/integrated-ranger-school-rap-week-update/26260827/)
8 Women and 184 men remain in the first integrated Ranger School class- 4 days down.


A total of 19 female and 381 male soldiers started the two-month Ranger School on Monday.

[Tahuyaman]

1st integrated Ranger School (http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/04/20/women-ranger-school-pt-test/26088039/)

Today, the first Ranger school course to include women started. As with most Army schools, it starts with a physical fitness test. 399 Soldiers started the course. Of those 19 were women.

81 failed the PT test. Only 3 of those were women. Note, the PT standards are different based on sex and age. But not a bad showing for team Women.

The average pass rate for Ranger School is 45%.

None will earn a Ranger Tab.

[Tahuyaman]

With different physical standards for women the Rangers will be less combat ready in the future.

Unfortuantely, standards on a battlefield make no adjustments for gender.

[Tahuyaman]

Hooray.... More petri dishes for social engineering fairness fairies.

Sent from my evil, kitten eating cell phone.

The military will always be a social experimentation laboratory for the left. After all, they are required to just drive on and make the best of the situation.

[Tahuyaman]

The lib dream is for the next Patton to be a female.


I could see Hillary Clinton delivering the famous Parton speech, can't you?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NJxmpTMGhU0

[Tahuyaman]

Do you think women will fare better in Ranger school or Marine infantry officer school?

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/04/10/no-women-pass-marines-infantry-officer-school-by-experiments-end.html

Let me tell you something about this. If the Army or the Ranger Department doesn't want a female to graduate from The Ranger course, she won't.

The Marine Corps will not allow a woman to be an infantry officer. They still believe in maintaining standards. They will let them try because they are ordered to by the civilian authority over them. The Army has a history of being a bit more receptive to political correctness than the Mari e Corps.

The only way a woman will graduate is if the Ranger Department is ordered by the army chief of staff to make sure a female graduates. Period.

[Tahuyaman]

Its amazing to me how we can allow political correctness to take a higher priority than human life. Selfish people will needlessly sacrifice real human beings to satisfy a politically correct agenda.

[Cthulhu]

Let me tell you something about this. If the Army or the Ranger Department doesn't want a female to graduate from The Ranger course, she won't.

The Marine Corps will not allow a woman to be an infantry officer. They still believe in maintaining standards. They will let them try because they are ordered to by the civilian authority over them. The Army has a history of being a bit more receptive to political correctness than the Mari e Corps.

The only way a woman will graduate is if the Ranger Department is ordered by the army chief of staff to make sure a female graduates. Period.
This might mean the disbanding of groups that can't or won't comply.

Sent from my evil, kitten eating cell phone.

[Tahuyaman]

This might mean the disbanding of groups that can't or won't comply.

Sent from my evil, kitten eating cell phone.


I dont think so

[Cthulhu]

I dont think so
It's possible. But I think the real problem will be retention of the troopers who dislike the turn of events.

All contracts end at some point, and it is still an all volunteer military.

Sent from my evil, kitten eating cell phone.

[Tahuyaman]

There are certain places where standards should never be watered down.

[Peter1469]

The remaining 8 females in the first integrated class are all being recycled in Darby Phase. Along with 101 males. (http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/05/08/women-ranger-school-recycle/26984151/)


That remaining women in the course have all be recycled for various reasons.


"I had the opportunity to visit the Ranger students yesterday and was impressed that whether going forward to the mountains or recycling the Darby phase, they were motivated to continue training and focused on successfully completing the Ranger Course," said Maj. Gen. Scott Miller, commanding general of the Maneuver Center of Excellence, in a statement. "They're a strong group of soldiers who are working their way through the U.S. Army's most physically and mentally demanding course."


A total of 19 female and 381 male soldiers started Ranger School (http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/04/20/women-start-ranger-school/25901823/) on April 20.


The women are part of a one-time, integrated assessment of the storied school. The assessment is part of a wider effort to determine whether and how to open combat-arms jobs to women, and it is a first for Ranger School, which until now has been open only to men.

[Common]

This is not an intended bash womens thread. I have daughters and I want them to have all the opportunities they can.
But the envelope has been pushed to far with women being able to do everything their male counterparts can do physically. Its time for some reality.
There are weight limits in all combat sports for a reason and that was simply stated, A good big man will beat a good smaller man every day. They key word is "good" not average.
There is no shame for the women that failed, they were given a task and they had a huge physical challenge to overcome from the start


The eight women who remained in the first gender-integrated class of Army Ranger training will not move onto the next round of training, Fort Benning announced on Friday.

That means all 19 women who began the training in April have washed out in the first phase.
The eight women, together with 101 men who washed out of the Darby phase, will retry the first part of the Army’s most elite training course beginning May 14, the release said.
“I had the opportunity to visit the Ranger students yesterday and was impressed that whether going forward to the mountains or recycling the Darby phase they were motivated to continue training and focused on successfully completing the Ranger Course,” said Maj. Gen. Scott Miller, commanding general of the Maneuver Center of Excellence. “They’re a strong group of soldiers, who are working their way through the U.S. Army’s most physically and mentally demanding course.”


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/may/8/women-wash-out-army-ranger-school/#ixzz3Zdm0ldk2
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=ctd-fI3Dar4z1uacwqm_6r&u=washtimes)

[PolWatch]

The females and 101 males washed out. That is the purpose of the training....to weed out those who can't make the grade. They made the cut to enroll, but didn't succeed....that seems to be the way the program works. I don't think the qualifications should be lowered for anyone. If they don't pass, they don't pass.

[Common]

I agree, that should be for Police and Fire also

[Peter1469]

The females and 101 males washed out. That is the purpose of the training....to weed out those who can't make the grade. They made the cut to enroll, but didn't succeed....that seems to be the way the program works. I don't think the qualifications should be lowered for anyone. If they don't pass, they don't pass.

Two problems.

1. They took slots away from people who had a much better chance of passing. Actually a chance to pass.

2. As of now, they can't serve in an infantry unit if they pass.

[Peter1469]

Notice: Duplicate threads merged

[Susan B. Anthony]

Why is it important to make males and females the same when they're not, nor are they meant to be?

[Peter1469]

Why is it important to make males and females the same when they're not, nor are they meant to be?
Social engineering.

[Susan B. Anthony]

Social engineering.

Of course that's it, but who is making these decisions? They're always one way. No one is putting in the same effort and persuasive arguments for men to deliver babies, for example.

It's someone's bizarre political agenda.

[Peter1469]

Update: (http://news.yahoo.com/8-women-fail-ranger-school-rangers-standards-change-214600870.html)

All of the women in the first integrated class Ranger class failed. 8 were allowed to recycle (common practice). Those 8 failed again.


On Friday, the Army is expected to announce that all the women who had attempted to graduate from Ranger School had officially failed to meet the standards, according to a military source.


Ranger School, which grooms the Army’s most elite special operations fighting force, opened its doors to women for the first time this year. Eight of the 20 women who originally entered the school's first co-ed class were allowed to recycle through the program after they fell out in their first go-round. The Friday announcement will confirm that this happened again.


To many, this means the system is working as it should.

[Peter1469]

Update: (http://www.defenseone.com/management/2015/07/three-women-advance-next-phase-army-ranger-school/117523/)3 women have advanced past the Darby Phase of Ranger School. Mountain Phase is next.


The 161 students began the first portion of Ranger School, called the Darby phase, on June 21 at Fort Benning, along with 201 others who did not successfully complete the course. They won’t get much of a breather to celebrate: they’ll enter the mountain phase on Monday.


Then, after eight days of training in military mountaineering and techniques and 10 days of leading patrols in Georgia’s Chattahoochee National Forest, they’ll be assessed on their performance. Success means advancing again, to the Florida phase that starts Aug. 1.

“The students of this class, just as all other Ranger classes, have shown strength and determination to persevere and complete the first phase of this rigorous course in the heat of the Georgia summer,” said Col. David Fivecoat, who leads the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade. “I’m confident that they are trained and ready.”

[PolWatch]

Anyone who survives exercises in the Chattahoochee National Forest in July is tough as old shoe leather....or will be by the time they finish.

[Ethereal]

1st integrated Ranger School (http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/04/20/women-ranger-school-pt-test/26088039/)

Today, the first Ranger school course to include women started. As with most Army schools, it starts with a physical fitness test. 399 Soldiers started the course. Of those 19 were women.

81 failed the PT test. Only 3 of those were women. Note, the PT standards are different based on sex and age. But not a bad showing for team Women.

The average pass rate for Ranger School is 45%.

If they have different PT standards, then they should have different units. Instead of integrating, they should just have women's Rangers, like they do in sports. If it's okay to have male and female sports leagues, then it should be okay to have male and female units in the military.

[Ethereal]

If any women pass the school they will be awarded the Ranger tab. They will not be assigned to the Regiment.

Ah, so they are just doing the Ranger course and then moving on to their regular occupation?

[PolWatch]

If they have different PT standards, then they should have different units. Instead of integrating, they should just have women's Rangers, like they do in sports. If it's okay to have male and female sports leagues, then it should be okay to have male and female units in the military.

I don't believe the requirements should be changed. If those requirements have a reason, they should apply to everyone who wants to join the unit. Weak men don't make it. Weak women shouldn't make it.

[Peter1469]

Ah, so they are just doing the Ranger course and then moving on to their regular occupation?

For now. They won't decide to move women into infantry units until there are enough to make it worth the while. They need qualified officers and senior NCOs available to serve as role models for the lower enlisted. Of course it will be much harder to fill the Ranger Regiment than infantry brigades, especially mech infantry.

[Peter1469]

I don't believe the requirements should be changed. If those requirements have a reason, they should apply to everyone who wants to join the unit. Weak men don't make it. Weak women shouldn't make it.

There has always been separate PT standards for men and women. I have posted the charts here before. 70% of the women wouldn't likely fail the male test.

[Ethereal]

I don't believe the requirements should be changed. If those requirements have a reason, they should apply to everyone who wants to join the unit. Weak men don't make it. Weak women shouldn't make it.

That is the ideal, but if people are going to insist on sending women to combat units, they should at least consider making them exclusive to females, because integration of men and women in a combat unit is a disaster waiting to happen. So they could have different standards for male and female units and they could adjust the roles of the unit to fit their capabilities. For example, a women's ranger unit would probably never be deployed for heavy combat purposes, but they could be used as a combat supplement in specialized cases.

[Peter1469]

Here is an interesting part of the article about why students, male and female have failed the course, or at least certain phases, because you can be recycled. The largest that fail for physical reasons do so in the first week. After that it is leading patrols- after all it is a leadership course. And injuries of course. Little food and sleep over time mess with you.


Most of the 201 dropped from the course struggled to lead patrols, Army officials said, a challenge that has persisted throughout the last several classes. That was the reason given for dropping several of the 19 women who began the first gender-integrated Ranger course on April 2.


Of that initial group of women, eight had done well enough in the first phase to try again. The second time through, five were dropped, but three excelled at enough aspects (http://www.defenseone.com/management/2015/05/3-women-get-one-more-try-ranger-school-more-could-soon-follow/114112/) of the course to earn the right to start the whole thing over. These three at last cleared the major hurdle of the Darby phase on Friday.



It is understandable that females wouldn't know how to lead a patrol. Most people who go to Ranger School are infantry and have time to practice that before.

When I went to an NCO professional development course we got evaluated on that. I ended up doing many people's squad leader "exam" and was a team leader on every other mission. Our squad ended up with good marks. :smiley: But it was the same there- most of the people in that course were not infantry. We even had a CID agent who had not worn a uniform for years.

[Peter1469]

It looks like two women will be graduating from Ranger School. (http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2015/08/17/two-women-earn-ranger-tabs-first-army/31889239/) First time ever.


The Army on Monday evening announced two women and 94 men met the standards of the course's third and final phase, also known as the Swamp Phase.Two women will graduate from Ranger School on Friday, becoming the first two women to earn the Ranger Tab.

Their graduation ceremony will take place Friday on Victory Pond at Fort Benning, Georgia.


The women are part of the Army's gender-integrated assessment of the grueling two-month Ranger School.


The assessment has drawn a high level of scrutiny, with many questioning whether the Army is lowering its standards for the elite school, which until now has been open only to men, while many others have cheered on the female students.

[Cthulhu]

It looks like two women will be graduating from Ranger School. (http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2015/08/17/two-women-earn-ranger-tabs-first-army/31889239/) First time ever.
I hope they don't consider this a glowing success.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

[Peter1469]

Update: female recycled in Swamp phase (http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/09/15/third-female-ranger-student-recycle-swamp-phase/72302334/)

The last female from the first integrated Ranger school course has been recycled in the Swamp Phase.


She has been in Ranger School since April, slogging her way through the famously punishing course.

But for the final female participant in the Army’s gender-integrated assessment (http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/04/20/women-start-ranger-school/25901823/) of Ranger School, her journey is not yet over.


Army officials announced Tuesday that she will not graduate Friday alongside 140 male classmates. Instead, the soldier and 20 male students will recycle the Swamp Phase, Ranger School’s third and final phase, beginning Sept. 26.


The female soldier, who has not publicly been named by the Army, has been at Camp Rudder, Florida, since Aug. 29 (http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2015/08/28/third-female-ranger-student-moves-swamp-phase/71312614/), after successfully completing Ranger School’s Mountain Phase in Dahlonega, Georgia. This latest recycle is the fourth time she has been sent back to reattempt one of Ranger School's three phases.

[Peter1469]

A third female officer has graduated Ranger School. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/10/12/army-ranger-school-has-a-groundbreaking-new-graduate-lisa-jaster-37-engineer-and-mother/) She is a major. 37 years old, and a reservist.


On Monday, the Army announced that Jaster, 37, has become the third woman to ever complete the Ranger School course. She will join Capt. Kristen Griest, 26, and 1st Lt. Shaye Haver, 25, who earned the Ranger tab on Aug. 21. Jaster will join 87 men in receiving the coveted decoration in a ceremony at Fort Benning on Friday. At graduation, Jaster will have spent 180 days in the course — far longer than the minimum 61 it takes, but within the realm of the possible for male or female students.


The three female soldiers are the only women to pass Ranger School among 19 who attempted the course beginning in April after the Army opened it to women for the first time. It did so as part of the military’s ongoing research into how it will integrate women into new combat roles in the future. The move followed a landmark January 2013 decision by then-Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, who opened all jobs to women, but gave the services until this fall to research how to integrate and make recommendations about each position that was closed.

37 is very old for Ranger School.

[Cthulhu]

Something tells me people are getting orders to make sure certain people graduate.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

[Cletus]

Something tells me people are getting orders to make sure certain people graduate.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

It would not be the first time.

[Tahuyaman]

A third female officer has graduated Ranger School. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/10/12/army-ranger-school-has-a-groundbreaking-new-graduate-lisa-jaster-37-engineer-and-mother/) She is a major. 37 years old, and a reservist.





37 is very old for Ranger School.


I Went through at 40.

[Peter1469]

I Went through at 40.

That is pretty amazing.

[Peter1469]

Something tells me people are getting orders to make sure certain people graduate.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

I don't think so at this point. Several people in the RTB have spoken out and said that they bow to no pressure to include the deputy commander. I trust those people much more than any politician.

What I do see is a push in the future to lower standards so more than just 3 women can pass the course. And of course forcing the Army and Marines to put women in infantry and SoF united en masse.

[Cletus]

I don't think so at this point. Several people in the RTB have spoken out and said that they bow to no pressure to include the deputy commander. I trust those people much more than any politician.

What I do see is a push in the future to lower standards so more than just 3 women can pass the course. And of course forcing the Army and Marines to put women in infantry and SoF united en masse.

Back in the 80s, it was decided by some pogue at Department of the Army that a woman should graduate from the SFQC. A female intelligence officer was enrolled and while she did okay academically, she couldn't handle the physical aspect of Phase One. The OIC of Phase One Committee was told she "WILL graduate".

The entire Phase One Committee marched into the puzzle palace and requested reassignment. the female candidate was dropped from the course and RTU.

AS I said, if RTB received pressure from DA to make sure those women graduated, it would not be the first time. How many times was this last retreaded? She spent 180 days in the course. How much time and money was wasted walking a female Reserve Major from Darby to Dahlonega to Florida?

[Tahuyaman]

That is pretty amazing.

During my 40's I was in the best shape of my life.

[Peter1469]

During my 40's I was in the best shape of my life.

I can see that. If you are working out from your teens on you should be in better overall shape. But the lack of sleep and food may be harder for the older candidates. I know that part bothered me less when I was younger.

[Cletus]

The oldest candidate in my class was 42.

His body pretty much fell apart in the mountains.

[Mister D]

Lack of food would put me in a hurt locker. I'm in great shape but my metabolism is very high and I'm a little peckish nearly all the time.

[Peter1469]

Lack of food would put me in a hurt locker. I'm in great shape but my metabolism is very high and I'm a little peckish nearly all the time.

You are too thin for long term food and sleep deprivation. You would need to really bulk up first.

[Mister D]

You are too thin for long term food and sleep deprivation. You would need to really bulk up first.

Yeah, I don't think I'd last long.

[Tahuyaman]

The oldest candidate in my class was 42.

His body pretty much fell apart in the mountains.

I turned 40 during Ranger School and I wasn't the oldest person in my class. There was a First Sergeant in my class.