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Peter1469
04-22-2015, 08:23 PM
Claims a former Canadian Minister of Defense (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3051151/Governments-HIDING-aliens-claims-former-defence-minister-Paul-Hellyer-urges-world-leaders-reveal-secret-files.html).




Paul Hellyer served as Canada's defence minister from 1963 to 1967
He made the comments during a speech at the University of Calgary
Hellyer says aliens have 'been visiting our planet for thousands of years'
Many walk among us, he claims, but it can be difficult to tell them apart



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3051151/Governments-HIDING-aliens-claims-former-defence-minister-Paul-Hellyer-urges-world-leaders-reveal-secret-files.html#ixzz3Y5iS3gMh
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Common
04-22-2015, 08:30 PM
Well thats scarey, if theyve been comin here for thousands of years and walk among us, they can take us out at will

Peter1469
04-22-2015, 08:40 PM
If they wanted to.

PolWatch
04-22-2015, 08:53 PM
Well thats scarey, if theyve been comin here for thousands of years and walk among us, they can take us out at will

Why bother? If they have been around that long they are more advanced than we are...so we are no threat to them. I don't find their existence hard to believe possible. We don't know everything living on earth now.

Captain Obvious
04-22-2015, 08:54 PM
They're probably voting democrat too...

PolWatch
04-22-2015, 09:00 PM
They're probably voting democrat too...

sshh....don't tell anyone....Hillary is from planet Faraway....its part of plot to take over the world and make everyone vote dem!

Redrose
04-22-2015, 09:49 PM
Well thats scarey, if theyve been comin here for thousands of years and walk among us, they can take us out at will


If they are here, what are thery waiting for? This planet is really screwed up.

Redrose
04-22-2015, 09:51 PM
11247



It's amazing, some of them could actually pass for humans.

PolWatch
04-22-2015, 09:53 PM
We could be their version of a zoo. They like to see the lower life forms in their native habitat. If we have nothing they want, why bother?

The Xl
04-22-2015, 09:54 PM
Nothing would really surprise me at this point

PolWatch
04-22-2015, 09:57 PM
When I think of how many stars are in the sky, I wonder how we can be so vain as to believe we are the only intelligent life form in existence. Looking at it that way, the odds are that some of them are more advanced than we are.

The Xl
04-22-2015, 10:00 PM
When I think of how many stars are in the sky, I wonder how we can be so vain as to believe we are the only intelligent life form in existence. Looking at it that way, the odds are that some of them are more advanced than we are.
We are certainly not the only intelligent life in the universe. It's nearly mathematically impossible. And when you put sheer numbers and probability into the equation, there are likely thousands if not millions of lifeforms more intelligent than we are

Beevee
04-22-2015, 10:03 PM
Claims a former Canadian Minister of Defense (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3051151/Governments-HIDING-aliens-claims-former-defence-minister-Paul-Hellyer-urges-world-leaders-reveal-secret-files.html).

The weed he uses is similar to that of Rob Ford.

Dr. Who
04-22-2015, 10:06 PM
Perhaps we come from them - ever think of that possibility? Could explain how they can pass among us without notice.

PolWatch
04-22-2015, 10:12 PM
Perhaps we come from them - ever think of that possibility? Could explain how they can pass among us without notice.

That's a possibility. We all have alien DNA? I think Peter1469 has mentioned something similar.

Dr. Who
04-22-2015, 10:24 PM
That's a possibility. We all have alien DNA? I think @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10) has mentioned something similar.
I sometimes think about these things. What if an alien species that was very old wished to ensure that their kind survived things like their sun going nova or some other calamity. Maybe seed a planet, incorporating the DNA of the the most advanced hominid on the planet and that of their own species. Perhaps it's the reason for the missing link?

Guerilla
04-22-2015, 10:52 PM
We could be their version of a zoo. They like to see the lower life forms in their native habitat. If we have nothing they want, why bother?

I always thought that. Maybe the UFOs are just scientist aliens studying another civilization. I think we'd probably do the same thing if we found another civilization. We'd just study them. They don't want anything, they are just curious, like most intelligent species probably would be.

I don't think they would secretively communicate with the governments though, what would be the point?

Peter1469
04-23-2015, 01:52 AM
That's a possibility. We all have alien DNA? I think @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10) has mentioned something similar.


Yes, that is one of the main theories. An alien race came to earth a long time ago and tinkered with the DNA of the apes.

Common
04-23-2015, 02:15 AM
We havent even touched the universe, we just started playing with our galaxy.
My wife always tells people, my husband believes in aliens but not ghosts and thats true

PolWatch
04-23-2015, 06:06 AM
'There are more things in heaven & earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy'.

who knows?

Guerilla
04-23-2015, 04:40 PM
We are certainly not the only intelligent life in the universe. It's nearly mathematically impossible. And when you put sheer numbers and probability into the equation, there are likely thousands if not millions of lifeforms more intelligent than we are

Math.

Works every time.

I was thinking about some of those theories of aliens altering human DNA and whatnot, but I need less science, more math. Gotta have the math to prove the science.

Redrose
04-23-2015, 05:36 PM
We havent even touched the universe, we just started playing with our galaxy.
My wife always tells people, my husband believes in aliens but not ghosts and thats true


I believe in both. Why not? I try to keep an open mind on those things.

As I get older, I'm starting to see the Bible in a different light. I believe in it of course, but I think it was written with the knowledge and understanding they had at the time. Most of it refers to the heavens, visitors from the sky, "angels", God speaking from the sky, voices from the clouds, apparitions, etc.

Jesus' "Immaculate" conception may be of an alien source, as his Resurrection and Assention into Heaven.
In religion, things we cannot understand are considered miracles. To an alien, it might be common place.

Mister D
04-23-2015, 05:45 PM
In the immortal words of G.K Chesterson, “From what place could a voice of God come, from the coal cellar?”

PolWatch
04-23-2015, 05:46 PM
I read Chariots of the Gods? when it was first published....I have never looked at anything the same. I don't think we know everything so I'm not willing to ignore possibilities.

Mister D
04-23-2015, 05:49 PM
I read Chariots of the Gods? when it was first published....I have never looked at anything the same. I don't think we know everything so I'm not willing to ignore possibilities.

I love Ancient Aliens. :smiley: That said, every interesting idea presented is wrapped in lunacy. It's fun but it's still lunacy.

PolWatch
04-23-2015, 05:53 PM
Its only lunacy if you don't accept the belief. I don't believe anyone has proof of one theory or the other.

Peter1469
04-23-2015, 05:53 PM
I love Ancient Aliens. :smiley: That said, every interesting idea presented is wrapped in lunacy. It's fun but it's still lunacy.

I wouldn't be so certain. :smiley:

Mister D
04-23-2015, 05:55 PM
Its only lunacy if you don't accept the belief. I don't believe anyone has proof of one theory or the other.

It has nothing to do with belief. It's simply a matter of evidence and logic. There is often no basis whatsoever for their wild (I mean wild) speculations. Next time I catch an episode I could give you an example.

Mister D
04-23-2015, 05:55 PM
I wouldn't be so certain. :smiley:

I would.

PolWatch
04-23-2015, 06:00 PM
It has nothing to do with belief. It's simply a matter of evidence and logic. There is often no basis whatsoever for their wild (I mean wild) speculations. Next time I catch an episode I could give you an example.

You do realize that the same logic could be applied to most religions...

Mister D
04-23-2015, 06:05 PM
You do realize that the same logic could be applied to most religions...

Give me an example.

PolWatch
04-23-2015, 06:23 PM
Give me an example.

evidence and logic = immaculate conceptions? raised from the dead? Articles of faith are not based on logic or evidence.

Redrose
04-23-2015, 06:28 PM
I read Chariots of the Gods? when it was first published....I have never looked at anything the same. I don't think we know everything so I'm not willing to ignore possibilities.


Same here. I am a person of faith. I respect the Christian religion. After reading that book, things started to make more sense to me. The author is Catholic, and he too says the book is not destroying our belief system, it is putting it into today's thinking, with what we know today to be possible. A thousand years from now, they may have an even better understanding of what our ancestors saw and tried to document.

I truly believe we are not alone in the universe. We are still in diapers compared to the advanced civilizations out there.

I am still puzzled by the words in Genesis, 1, 26: Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..." When I asked about that, a priest said, it represents the Blessed Trinity. That makes no sense to me, because when man was created, Jesus was a few thousand years in the future.

I ask, what is meant by us, and our? There is much we don't understand, and the world's major religions are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, trying to make sense of things beyond our comprehension.

One thing I do know for sure, there is something that created us that is out there.

PolWatch
04-23-2015, 06:32 PM
I think people have been trying to explain things that they didn't understand. They may be right, they may be wrong. I don't know. I do know that I'm not going to deny things that I can't explain.

Peter1469
04-23-2015, 06:51 PM
Same here. I am a person of faith. I respect the Christian religion. After reading that book, things started to make more sense to me. The author is Catholic, and he too says the book is not destroying our belief system, it is putting it into today's thinking, with what we know today to be possible. A thousand years from now, they may have an even better understanding of what our ancestors saw and tried to document.

I truly believe we are not alone in the universe. We are still in diapers compared to the advanced civilizations out there.

I am still puzzled by the words in Genesis, 1, 26: Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..." When I asked about that, a priest said, it represents the Blessed Trinity. That makes no sense to me, because when man was created, Jesus was a few thousand years in the future.

I ask, what is meant by us, and our? There is much we don't understand, and the world's major religions are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, trying to make sense of things beyond our comprehension.

One thing I do know for sure, there is something that created us that is out there.

God is energy. Man will one day transform into energy. That is what Jesus did in the "resurrection".

PolWatch
04-23-2015, 06:58 PM
God is energy. Man will one day transform into energy. That is what Jesus did in the "resurrection".

do you mean ultimately through advances or at death?

Redrose
04-23-2015, 07:00 PM
God is energy. Man will one day transform into energy. That is what Jesus did in the "resurrection".


Quite possible.

There are just too many examples that we have been visited in the past by beings far advanced, the remnants of thier knowledge remain.

One theory I read not long ago, is the visitors from another time or place, are really us, Earthlings coming back in time from a million years in the future. Talk about a paradox.

Einstein's theory of relativity gets into that thinking. I find it fascinating, I wish I had a better aptitude to get into it more thoroughly. I try, but I just get a headache. lol

Peter1469
04-23-2015, 07:19 PM
do you mean ultimately through advances or at death?

through advances ultimately, but yes, death as well. I also believe in reincarnation which gets in between the two.

Mister D
04-23-2015, 07:23 PM
evidence and logic = immaculate conceptions? raised from the dead? Articles of faith are not based on logic or evidence.

The Immaculate Conception and the Resurrection of Christ are not scientific claims. Giorgio et al aren't asking you to take them on faith. They're trying to convince you that what they're saying is backed by evidence and logic.

Again, do you have an example?

Mister D
04-23-2015, 07:26 PM
Quite possible.

There are just too many examples that we have been visited in the past by beings far advanced, the remnants of thier knowledge remain.

One theory I read not long ago, is the visitors from another time or place, are really us, Earthlings coming back in time from a million years in the future. Talk about a paradox.

Einstein's theory of relativity gets into that thinking. I find it fascinating, I wish I had a better aptitude to get into it more thoroughly. I try, but I just get a headache. lol

There is no evidence that we have been visited in the past. There is conjecture. It goes something like this: I don't understand how this was done nor will I accept the theories of "mainstream" (code for anyone adhering to academic standards) scholars regarding it. Ergo aliens.

PolWatch
04-23-2015, 07:35 PM
I believe I have said that I don't discount alternative theories. Theories are unproven...if proven they would be facts. If you are comfortable with accepting the beliefs offered by the church...good on ya. I have no quarrel with that because it is just as possible they are correct as any other idea. The church has the advantage of having been accepted for more years than the alien theories have existed. They have seniority.

PolWatch
04-23-2015, 07:37 PM
through advances ultimately, but yes, death as well. I also believe in reincarnation which gets in between the two.

Reincarnation would explain where energy goes at death...

Mister D
04-23-2015, 07:43 PM
I believe I have said that I don't discount alternative theories. Theories are unproven...if proven they would be facts. If you are comfortable with accepting the beliefs offered by the church...good on ya. I have no quarrel with that because it is just as possible they are correct as any other idea. The church has the advantage of having been accepted for more years than the alien theories have existed. They have seniority.

Excellent demonstration of the pseudo-scientific, quasi-religious nature of the entire ancient aliens phenomenon. Well done. Not sarcasm.

Polecat
04-23-2015, 07:45 PM
It has nothing to do with belief. It's simply a matter of evidence and logic. There is often no basis whatsoever for their wild (I mean wild) speculations. Next time I catch an episode I could give you an example.

I agree. They make some completely wild conclusions. I see it as the comedy part of the show. The little wooden bird toy they found in Egypt is irrefutable proof the ancients had spacecraft. OK.

PolWatch
04-23-2015, 07:53 PM
I'm going to have to watch that show. I've never seen it.

Polecat
04-23-2015, 08:03 PM
The most interesting parallel with my beliefs I see on this program is they claim <<switch to Swiss accent>> "the ancient gods were not gods at all but flesh and blood extraterrestrials."

I have identified these flesh and blood extraterrestrials to be the fallen angels of the Old Testament. In those days gods were something the natives could relate to. And so all the numerous gods written about all around the world have in fact been demons masquerading as gods and directing mankind to do some pretty unspeakable things. Fast forward to our secular society and the fallen angels will have trouble selling themselves as gods. Solution: get us used to the idea of aliens over a few generations then when the idea has gained widespread acceptance they can appear and once again direct mankind to pursue Satan's plans. I think most people are going to be completely fooled too.

Redrose
04-23-2015, 08:45 PM
There is no evidence that we have been visited in the past. There is conjecture. It goes something like this: I don't understand how this was done nor will I accept the theories of "mainstream" (code for anyone adhering to academic standards) scholars regarding it. Ergo aliens.


I can't be that dismissive of the possibility. In Peru, the Puma Punku ruins show remarkable engineering skills that were not possible at that time and in that region. The precision tools needed were centuries away. Here is an excerpt of a report by "Ancient Aliens". The stones fit so well, there is less than a fraction of a mm between them. A civilization that was still living in mud huts with crude tools made from stone, were not capable of such engineering marvels. Same thing for the pyrimids and many other structures around the world. I don't have the answer, so I am not going to close my mind to any possibility.

"Ancient Aliens theorists also discovered more fascinating information about
these stone structures that are worthy to note. Not only were these stones
cut, but they were finely cut. The cuts on these stones are perfectly
straight. The holes cored into these stones are perfect, and all of equal
depth. This gives way to more questions about how all this was possible for
an ancient people? All of the stone blocks were cut so they would interlock
and fit together like a giant puzzle."

MisterVeritis
04-23-2015, 10:47 PM
When I think of how many stars are in the sky, I wonder how we can be so vain as to believe we are the only intelligent life form in existence. Looking at it that way, the odds are that some of them are more advanced than we are.
Maybe. But we will never know. The speed of light does impose a significant barrier.

MisterVeritis
04-23-2015, 10:48 PM
Perhaps we come from them - ever think of that possibility? Could explain how they can pass among us without notice.
Given the small problem of light speed where do you believe these aliens came from?

MisterVeritis
04-23-2015, 10:48 PM
That's a possibility. We all have alien DNA? I think @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10) has mentioned something similar.
Silliness. Explain please.

MisterVeritis
04-23-2015, 10:50 PM
Its only lunacy if you don't accept the belief. I don't believe anyone has proof of one theory or the other.
No. It is still lunacy. :-)

MisterVeritis
04-23-2015, 10:53 PM
God is energy. Man will one day transform into energy. That is what Jesus did in the "resurrection".
Everything we are aware of has properties of both particles and waves. About 3/4ths of everything is dark. We have no way of interacting with dark energy nor with dark matter.

What has that to do with god or his son?

What we do know is that the Universe is expanding rapidly in every direction. It mystifies me.

MisterVeritis
04-23-2015, 10:56 PM
Quite possible.

There are just too many examples that we have been visited in the past by beings far advanced, the remnants of thier knowledge remain.

One theory I read not long ago, is the visitors from another time or place, are really us, Earthlings coming back in time from a million years in the future. Talk about a paradox.

Einstein's theory of relativity gets into that thinking. I find it fascinating, I wish I had a better aptitude to get into it more thoroughly. I try, but I just get a headache. lol
Thermodynamics gets in the way of actual time travel. At the subatomic level nothing gets in the way of movement through space-time in either direction. But above the subatomic level entropy is an obstacle.

MisterVeritis
04-23-2015, 11:02 PM
I can't be that dismissive of the possibility. In Peru, the Puma Punku ruins show remarkable engineering skills that were not possible at that time and in that region. The precision tools needed were centuries away. Here is an excerpt of a report by "Ancient Aliens". The stones fit so well, there is less than a fraction of a mm between them. A civilization that was still living in mud huts with crude tools made from stone, were not capable of such engineering marvels. Same thing for the pyrimids and many other structures around the world. I don't have the answer, so I am not going to close my mind to any possibility.

"Ancient Aliens theorists also discovered more fascinating information about
these stone structures that are worthy to note. Not only were these stones
cut, but they were finely cut. The cuts on these stones are perfectly
straight. The holes cored into these stones are perfect, and all of equal
depth. This gives way to more questions about how all this was possible for
an ancient people? All of the stone blocks were cut so they would interlock
and fit together like a giant puzzle."


Technical know how has been around for as long as there have been people. You are quite simply wrong.

You cannot build a satellite nor do you understand the simple math required to know where a satellite will be at any given moment after its launch. Your ignorance does not require alien civilizations to explain that some know how the magic is performed.

It is much the same in our past. We do know how to create things of perfection. Such "miracles" can be created using simple tools available to smart people of any age.

Peter1469
04-24-2015, 01:53 AM
Maybe. But we will never know. The speed of light does impose a significant barrier.

Unless "worm holes" are a reality.

Peter1469
04-24-2015, 01:55 AM
Everything we are aware of has properties of both particles and waves. About 3/4ths of everything is dark. We have no way of interacting with dark energy nor with dark matter.

What has that to do with god or his son?

What we do know is that the Universe is expanding rapidly in every direction. It mystifies me.

The universe may not be expanding at all. (http://www.sci-news.com/astronomy/science-universe-not-expanding-01940.html)

Peter1469
04-24-2015, 02:01 AM
Tips:

1. When posting, look at the Forum title. For instance this one. It is not the science and tech room. It is the


The Paranormal Cryptozoology Supernatural Conspiracy Room (http://thepoliticalforums.com/forums/51-The-Paranormal-Cryptozoology-Supernatural-Conspiracy-Room)

That is a clue that what is posted here may not be in your high school science books our your Kings James Bible.


2. It really is possible to respond to a member that you disagree with without being a complete dick. I promise. It is possible.

Common
04-24-2015, 02:14 AM
All of you put technical and deep explanations. Ill keep it simple because I have no choice :)

I dont see how anyone can believe in all the vastness of space we can be the only creations.
Ive never seen anyone close to me ever return, if there were ghosts here I would have seen one.

Ill stick with theres otehr life out there and once lifes gone, its gone

Peter1469
04-24-2015, 02:20 AM
I have seen evidence of ghosts before.

Common
04-24-2015, 02:29 AM
I have seen evidence of ghosts before.

Evidence ? or you think you saw something. There are tons of paranormal shows out there where the investigate supposed haunted places, these shows have been running for years. All the ever come up with are unexplained noises. Never once did they photograph or see live on tv a ghost.

Peter1469
04-24-2015, 02:59 AM
Evidence ? or you think you saw something. There are tons of paranormal shows out there where the investigate supposed haunted places, these shows have been running for years. All the ever come up with are unexplained noises. Never once did they photograph or see live on tv a ghost.

I have only seen/heard evidence, not a physical apparition.

Mister D
04-24-2015, 07:49 AM
I agree. They make some completely wild conclusions. I see it as the comedy part of the show. The little wooden bird toy they found in Egypt is irrefutable proof the ancients had spacecraft. OK.

Don't forget the little Mayan figurine that looks like an F-16. Of course they never get around to explaining why a civilization that can travel through space would arrive here in a jey fighter but whatever. It's fun.

Mister D
04-24-2015, 07:50 AM
I'm going to have to watch that show. I've never seen it.

It's actually pretty cool.

Peter1469
04-24-2015, 07:52 AM
Don't forget the little Mayan figurine that looks like an F-16. Of course they never get around to explaining why a civilization that can travel through space would arrive here in a jey fighter but whatever. It's fun.

Why does it have to be a jet? It could be a craft capable of flight in space and in an atmosphere. Like a Viper Mark II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G9t0OFHSWg

Mister D
04-24-2015, 07:55 AM
I can't be that dismissive of the possibility. In Peru, the Puma Punku ruins show remarkable engineering skills that were not possible at that time and in that region. The precision tools needed were centuries away. Here is an excerpt of a report by "Ancient Aliens". The stones fit so well, there is less than a fraction of a mm between them. A civilization that was still living in mud huts with crude tools made from stone, were not capable of such engineering marvels. Same thing for the pyrimids and many other structures around the world. I don't have the answer, so I am not going to close my mind to any possibility.

"Ancient Aliens theorists also discovered more fascinating information about
these stone structures that are worthy to note. Not only were these stones
cut, but they were finely cut. The cuts on these stones are perfectly
straight. The holes cored into these stones are perfect, and all of equal
depth. This gives way to more questions about how all this was possible for
an ancient people? All of the stone blocks were cut so they would interlock
and fit together like a giant puzzle."






Yeah, that's how they operate on Ancient Aliens. They tell you how ridiculous the "mainstream" (again, code for academic standards) theories are. Of course they don't bother to tell you how scholars arrived at those theories and they don't bother to have anyone on to explain what actual scholars are thinking. That would spoil the fun. :wink:

Mister D
04-24-2015, 07:57 AM
Why does it have to be a jet? It could be a craft capable of flight in space and in an atmosphere. Like a Viper Mark II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G9t0OFHSWg

I don't Youtube here, sorry. It sure looks like a human craft from the 20th and 21st Centuries. Well, if you're going to go there anyway. In reality, it's probably a representation of a bird.

https://thetruthbehindthescenes.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/prtscr-capture_2.jpg

Peter1469
04-24-2015, 08:01 AM
I don't Youtube here, sorry. It sure looks like a human craft from the 20th and 21st Centuries. Well, if you're going to go there anyway. In reality, it's probably a representation of a bird.

https://thetruthbehindthescenes.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/prtscr-capture_2.jpg

Stoneagers (or whichever ancient era) that saw an advanced piece of alien technology, especially if not up close and in detail, are likely going to depict it as resembling something they know. :smiley:

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=JN.EK6NtnPDLp0rlJ1VQ5psAA&pid=15.1&H=153&W=160

Mister D
04-24-2015, 08:04 AM
Stoneagers (or whichever ancient era) that saw an advanced piece of alien technology, especially if not up close and in detail, are likely going to depict it as resembling something they know. :smiley:

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=JN.EK6NtnPDLp0rlJ1VQ5psAA&pid=15.1&H=153&W=160

It's certainly within the realm of the possible but the realm of the likely? No. There are a great many things we don't understand about the ancient world or other cultures. Alien visitation isn't my first explanation. :smiley:

Guerilla
04-24-2015, 08:16 AM
I don't Youtube here, sorry. It sure looks like a human craft from the 20th and 21st Centuries. Well, if you're going to go there anyway. In reality, it's probably a representation of a bird.

https://thetruthbehindthescenes.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/prtscr-capture_2.jpg

Ya most of their speculation should only be paid attention to for fun.

But some of it, like the Puma Punku episode Redrose mentioned, had some compelling stuff in it.

Mister D
04-24-2015, 08:21 AM
How many people do you think heard about this area for the first time on Ancient Aliens and know nothing else about it other than what they are told by Giorgio? I'd say a lot of viewers. They might feel differently if they looked up what scholars are actually saying about it.

Polecat
04-24-2015, 08:28 AM
Don't forget the little Mayan figurine that looks like an F-16. Of course they never get around to explaining why a civilization that can travel through space would arrive here in a jey fighter but whatever. It's fun.

Yes that is another good one. Giorgio wears one on his lapel and hands them out at every opportunity. They ran extensive aerodynamic tests on the bell shape also to validate that it could be a time machine. Sometimes I wonder if the producer of the show even looks at the script.

Polecat
04-24-2015, 08:42 AM
The ancient stone work is a valid mystery and yet defies explanation. One of the foundations of scientific research is being able to demonstrate a repeatable solution. So there can be nothing more than speculation for the time being. I find this to be the most compelling part of the program. Giants? Maybe.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 08:43 AM
Unless "worm holes" are a reality.
It would require an ability to exploit a "worm hole". Good luck with that.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 08:45 AM
The universe may not be expanding at all. (http://www.sci-news.com/astronomy/science-universe-not-expanding-01940.html)
One study and a "new" theory is a very thin reed to stand upon.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 08:48 AM
Tips:

1. When posting, look at the Forum title. For instance this one. It is not the science and tech room. It is the

The Paranormal Cryptozoology Supernatural Conspiracy Room (http://thepoliticalforums.com/forums/51-The-Paranormal-Cryptozoology-Supernatural-Conspiracy-Room)
That is a clue that what is posted here may not be in your high school science books our your Kings James Bible.


2. It really is possible to respond to a member that you disagree with without being a complete dick. I promise. It is possible.
Right. This is a place for the delusional to remain delusional. Got it.

Dr. Who
04-24-2015, 04:46 PM
Given the small problem of light speed where do you believe these aliens came from?
Light speed is a problem that "we" have not licked, doesn't mean that it is impossible or that there are not worm holes that act as short cuts across space. Space and time are not linear, but that is another discussion.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 05:04 PM
Light speed is a problem that "we" have not licked, doesn't mean that it is impossible or that there are not worm holes that act as short cuts across space. Space and time are not linear, but that is another discussion.
Space-Time has always fascinated me. It is not space and time. It is one thing.

And worm hole or some other sleight of hand that would allow us to travel thousands of light years in a moment makes no sense to me.

The idea that you can believe six impossible things before breakfast is interesting but not compelling.

Common Sense
04-24-2015, 05:06 PM
It makes no sense to him therefore he thinks it's impossible.

Polecat
04-24-2015, 05:08 PM
It makes no sense to him therefore he thinks it's impossible.

Sounds like a fair description of an atheist too.

Common Sense
04-24-2015, 05:11 PM
Sounds like a fair description of an atheist too.

Perhaps, except scientific theories use math. Religion uses faith.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 05:18 PM
It makes no sense to him therefore he thinks it's impossible.
It makes no sense to you either. Admit it.

I believe it is improbable that anyone could create wormholes to link together one part of spacetime with another part of spacetime. How would you know where and when to create the other end of the wormhole?

Polecat
04-24-2015, 05:18 PM
Perhaps, except scientific theories use math. Religion uses faith.

Numbers can be hard to understand too. Not to mention in error when the equations take up 40 + black boards.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 05:19 PM
Perhaps, except scientific theories use math. Religion uses faith.
Yes. Are you familiar with the math? I have never mastered this particular math. Have you?

Polecat
04-24-2015, 05:22 PM
It makes no sense to you either. Admit it.

I believe it is improbable that anyone could create wormholes to link together one part of spacetime with another part of spacetime. How would you know where and when to create the other end of the wormhole?

From what I have seen on the cartoon channel wormholes are microscopic constructs that exist at the quantum level and are unrealistic fantasy on our scale. But the universe is a big place so we may exist at a microscopic level from another perspective.

Common Sense
04-24-2015, 05:22 PM
Yes. Are you familiar with the math? I have never mastered this particular math. Have you?

Mastered it? Of course not.

Besides, I'm not claiming to believe that wormholes are real or even possible. I'm just not dismissing them outright.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/string-theory-travel-through-a-wormhole.html

Common Sense
04-24-2015, 05:23 PM
Numbers can be hard to understand too. Not to mention in error when the equations take up 40 + black boards.

Sure, that's true. But we do have computers today.

Dr. Who
04-24-2015, 05:26 PM
Space-Time has always fascinated me. It is not space and time. It is one thing.

And worm hole or some other sleight of hand that would allow us to travel thousands of light years in a moment makes no sense to me.

The idea that you can believe six impossible things before breakfast is interesting but not compelling.
Rather than argue with you, please just read at the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole

Polecat
04-24-2015, 05:26 PM
Mastered it? Of course not.

Besides, I'm not claiming to believe that wormholes are real or even possible. I'm just not dismissing them outright.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/string-theory-travel-through-a-wormhole.html

They are validated by the math. So regardless of whether you understand it or not you are bound to believe it is so. (based on your earlier statement)

Polecat
04-24-2015, 05:29 PM
Sure, that's true. But we do have computers today.

Garbage in garbage out is an old quip for computer programmers of days past. Computers can't write the equations. They can use brute force to solve them but some poindexter still has to write the equations.

Common Sense
04-24-2015, 05:31 PM
They are validated by the math. So regardless of whether you understand it or not you are bound to believe it is so. (based on your earlier statement)

In theory they are validated. Like I said, that doesn't mean I believe it's possible. It's theoretical.

Religion on the other hand can't be validated by anything other than faith. It's not quantifiable.

Polecat
04-24-2015, 05:36 PM
In theory they are validated. Like I said, that doesn't mean I believe it's possible. It's theoretical.

Religion on the other hand can't be validated by anything other than faith. It's not quantifiable.

Oh ye of little faith. Can't even believe in your own definition of truth.

Dr. Who
04-24-2015, 05:38 PM
In theory they are validated. Like I said, that doesn't mean I believe it's possible. It's theoretical.

Religion on the other hand can't be validated by anything other than faith. It's not quantifiable.
Theory is proven or disproven through practical application, however even when it performs as hypothesized it may contain flaws beyond the scope of the original hypothesis. It is a learning process.

Common Sense
04-24-2015, 05:38 PM
Oh ye of little faith. Can't even believe in your own definition of truth.

What? My own definition of truth?

I'm sorry, but I don't just buy things because someone says it's true.

Knock yourself out though if you want to in believe fairy tales while begrudging fact based rationality.

Polecat
04-24-2015, 05:40 PM
What? My own definition of truth?

I'm sorry, but I don't just buy things because someone says it's true.

Knock yourself out though if you want to in believe fairy tales while begrudging fact based rationality.

You seem to be the one in crisis here. I am most comfortable with my beliefs.

Common Sense
04-24-2015, 05:42 PM
You seem to be the one in crisis here. I am most comfortable with my beliefs.

LOL...sorry, no crisis here.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 05:44 PM
From what I have seen on the cartoon channel wormholes are microscopic constructs that exist at the quantum level and are unrealistic fantasy on our scale. But the universe is a big place so we may exist at a microscopic level from another perspective.
LOL. The laws are the same in all reference frames. Einstein figured that out.

Polecat
04-24-2015, 05:45 PM
I was just trying to get you on the ropes. Its piss off your favorite Canuck night here.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 05:45 PM
Mastered it? Of course not.

Besides, I'm not claiming to believe that wormholes are real or even possible. I'm just not dismissing them outright.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/string-theory-travel-through-a-wormhole.html
They offer similar obstacles as the speed of light.

Polecat
04-24-2015, 05:56 PM
LOL. The laws are the same in all reference frames. Einstein figured that out.

The theory of relativity per Einstein is incompatible with quantum mechanics mathematically. (Per Einstein too) It is hard to leave the scope of size out of this dilemma. Our greatest minds have been spinning their wheels on this for decades. Imagine you can sit in your chair and gaze on the entire universe. Our little solar system is sub atomic particle sized from this perspective. And imagine further that a big hoser is sitting somewhere behind you looking upon all he sees and your size is too small for him to see. Is it possible that this just keeps on going? Maybe it turns back in on itself and we look out and see the universe but what we are looking at is just an atom.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 06:42 PM
Rather than argue with you, please just read at the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole
Thank you for the link. We will have to agree to wait. No wormholes have been observed.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 06:44 PM
They are validated by the math. So regardless of whether you understand it or not you are bound to believe it is so. (based on your earlier statement)
That is not quite true. There are equations for which a wormhole offers a solution. So it is interesting. No wormholes have been observed.

So we wait. I will do other things while I wait.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 06:46 PM
The theory of relativity per Einstein is incompatible with quantum mechanics mathematically. (Per Einstein too) It is hard to leave the scope of size out of this dilemma. Our greatest minds have been spinning their wheels on this for decades. Imagine you can sit in your chair and gaze on the entire universe. Our little solar system is sub atomic particle sized from this perspective. And imagine further that a big hoser is sitting somewhere behind you looking upon all he sees and your size is too small for him to see. Is it possible that this just keeps on going? Maybe it turns back in on itself and we look out and see the universe but what we are looking at is just an atom.
We will have to agree to smile and move on.

Dr. Who
04-24-2015, 06:47 PM
Thank you for the link. We will have to agree to wait. No wormholes have been observed.
We have often been unable to see that what was theorized until we developed the technology to do so. I am optimistic that we will one day be able to "see" wormholes. We can now see black holes, long theorized, due to to the Hubble telescope.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 06:57 PM
We have often been unable to see that what was theorized until we developed the technology to do so. I am optimistic that we will one day be able to "see" wormholes. We can now see black holes, long theorized, due to to the Hubble telescope.
Oftentimes the way we 'see' something is based on how we expect things to look when the unobservable is present. A wobble may indicate a planet.

There is so much we do not know. Dark matter and dark energy comprise most of the Universe.

Bob
04-24-2015, 06:58 PM
We have often been unable to see that what was theorized until we developed the technology to do so. I am optimistic that we will one day be able to "see" wormholes. We can now see black holes, long theorized, due to to the Hubble telescope.

You may think I am kidding but I swear this is true.

I was in 1952 in the 8th grade. As wild as this sounds, i came up with the idea of how to move faster than the speed of light. Bear in mind I was all of 13. My idea was then what now is called worm holes. The general idea is as you approach the speed of light, you shove space in front of you. Imagine it is water in front of a boat. Anyway, you reach a point and you burst through and you leaped far into the universe.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 07:00 PM
You may think I am kidding but I swear this is true.

I was in 1952 in the 8th grade. As wild as this sounds, i came up with the idea of how to move faster than the speed of light. Bear in mind I was all of 13. My idea was then what now is called worm holes. The general idea is as you approach the speed of light, you shove space in front of you. Imagine it is water in front of a boat. Anyway, you reach a point and you burst through and you leaped far into the universe.
The very small flaw, almost not worth mentioning, is that we are unable to approach the speed of light.

Dr. Who
04-24-2015, 07:00 PM
Oftentimes the way we 'see' something is based on how we expect things to look when the unobservable is present. A wobble may indicate a planet.

There is so much we do not know. Dark matter and dark energy comprise most of the Universe.
Indeed theory can be influenced by expectations, but fortunately there is no shortage of theory. The secrets of dark matter are the next frontier.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 07:02 PM
Indeed theory can be influenced by expectations, but fortunately there is no shortage of theory. The secrets of dark matter are the next frontier.
Dark matter and dark energy are both very hard problems. If we ever understand them the technologies we rely upon may change in unimaginable ways.

Dr. Who
04-24-2015, 07:07 PM
Dark matter and dark energy are both very hard problems. If we ever understand them the technologies we rely upon may change in unimaginable ways.
Finding a way to circumvent gravity would be huge.

Bob
04-24-2015, 07:12 PM
The very small flaw, almost not worth mentioning, is that we are unable to approach the speed of light.

What the hell did I know then. I was just some 8th grade kid. LMAO

Actually, I believe in experiments. We have not yet done the experiment showing I was wrong.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 07:13 PM
Finding a way to circumvent gravity would be huge.
Gravity appears to be a property of spacetime. I do not understand what you mean.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 07:14 PM
What the hell did I know then. I was just some 8th grade kid. LMAO

Actually, I believe in experiments. We have not yet done the experiment showing I was wrong.
We cannot, even in theory, approach the speed of light. There can never be an experiment that will prove you wrong.

Congratulations. :-)

Bob
04-24-2015, 07:17 PM
Finding a way to circumvent gravity would be huge.

Just before opening my machine shop, on paper I created a machine designed to overcome gravity. Always wish I had made it to see if it would work. If I disclose the design, I need to kill every poster. :grin:

Bob
04-24-2015, 07:18 PM
We cannot, even in theory, approach the speed of light. There can never be an experiment that will prove you wrong.

Congratulations. :-)

i am well aware why you say that. I read Einstein's works too.

I would sure love for them to construct the right experiment. I never will be able to do it.

Bob
04-24-2015, 07:21 PM
Gravity appears to be a property of spacetime. I do not understand what you mean.

I have long puzzled over gravity. Even Einsteins explanation does not do it for me.

MisterVeritis
04-24-2015, 07:30 PM
I have long puzzled over gravity. Even Einsteins explanation does not do it for me.
Everyone else has as well. Gravity only attracts. Why doesn't gravity ever repel?

Dr. Who
04-24-2015, 07:31 PM
Everyone else has as well. Gravity only attracts. Why doesn't gravity ever repel?
Dark matter repels.

Bob
04-24-2015, 07:31 PM
Everyone else has as well. Gravity only attracts. Why doesn't gravity ever repel?

You mean anti-gravity. We need to see much more of the universe I believe.

Dr. Who
04-24-2015, 07:34 PM
just before opening my machine shop, on paper i created a machine designed to overcome gravity. Always wish i had made it to see if it would work. If i disclose the design, i need to kill every poster. :grin:
lol.

Bob
04-24-2015, 07:46 PM
Indeed theory can be influenced by expectations, but fortunately there is no shortage of theory. The secrets of dark matter are the next frontier.

Dark matter is actually just matter. It is called dark because light does not reflect off dark matter.

Dr. Who
04-24-2015, 07:55 PM
Dark matter is actually just matter. It is called dark because light does not reflect off dark matter.
Dark matter and dark energy does not act the same way as light matter and light energy. It has a different set of rules.

Bob
04-24-2015, 07:55 PM
Dark matter and dark energy does not act the same way as light matter and light energy. It has a different set of rules.
So I hear. Wonder what will change in the next 5 years.

Common
04-24-2015, 08:13 PM
I think we know nothing at all about the universe, we just started to know our own galaxy a little

Polecat
04-25-2015, 10:50 AM
Sometimes we think we got it all figured out. Then later find out we were mistaken. As far as I'm concerned the dark energy/matter that can not be perceived as anything other than abnormal behavior in the stuff we can see is an attempt to make flawed theories valid. Like trying to force a square peg through a round hole and learning in the process we grope in the dark for a light switch. Another slap in the face of relativity is the apparent speed at which the universe is expanding as we approach the limits of our ability to observe. Whole galaxies speeding from one another at far greater velocities than that of light indicate we have a boo boo somewhere.

MisterVeritis
04-25-2015, 11:05 AM
Dark matter repels.
Gravity does not.

What evidence do you have that dark matter repels?

Polecat
04-25-2015, 11:08 AM
Gravity does not.

What evidence do you have that dark matter repels?
It is part of the reason for composing the theory of dark energy. It explains why gravity is not slowing the expansion of space.

MisterVeritis
04-25-2015, 11:09 AM
You mean anti-gravity. We need to see much more of the universe I believe.
Anti-gravity implies that gravity is like electromagnetism with two opposing charges. It is interesting but not apparently the case.

MisterVeritis
04-25-2015, 11:10 AM
Dark matter is actually just matter. It is called dark because light does not reflect off dark matter.
Nor does it interact with us in any way we know of. The room I sit in is filled with dark matter and dark energy. But I cannot measure either.

Polecat
04-25-2015, 11:12 AM
Anti-gravity implies that gravity is like electromagnetism with two opposing charges. It is interesting but not apparently the case.

Unless the other pole lay in a different dimension.

Dr. Who
04-25-2015, 11:25 AM
Gravity does not.

What evidence do you have that dark matter repels?
Actually I misspoke, dark energy repels. It's the reason that the universe is constantly expanding. Dark matter is associated with black holes.

Polecat
04-25-2015, 11:33 AM
Actually I misspoke, dark energy repels. It's the reason that the universe is constantly expanding. Dark matter is associated with black holes.

This makes the whole concept kind of shaky. Gravity is associated with matter or the opposite. So how does dark matter account for itself?

The Sage of Main Street
04-25-2015, 11:34 AM
Claims a former Canadian Minister of Defense (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3051151/Governments-HIDING-aliens-claims-former-defence-minister-Paul-Hellyer-urges-world-leaders-reveal-secret-files.html). House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy, who entered politics after Invasion of the Bodysnatchers, brought in those extraterrestrials to possess all his colleagues.

The Sage of Main Street
04-25-2015, 11:43 AM
Math.

Works every time.

I was thinking about some of those theories of aliens altering human DNA and whatnot, but I need less science, more math. Gotta have the math to prove the science. What is the math on winning the Powerball lottery? Well, it's far greater odds against life appearing even on Earth. But someone wins the lottery and that's the only analogy to life appearing on Earth.

Dr. Who
04-25-2015, 11:54 AM
This makes the whole concept kind of shaky. Gravity is associated with matter or the opposite. So how does dark matter account for itself?
Dark matter is the densest matter in the universe and black holes are found at the centers of most galaxies. Science doesn't really know what dark matter is, but infer its properties from it's affect on other matter. The more dark matter a galaxy has, the bigger the black hole. Too much dark matter and stars don't/can't form, the galaxy is just a giant region of gases.

MisterVeritis
04-25-2015, 12:04 PM
So I hear. Wonder what will change in the next 5 years.
Perhaps nothing. It is a hard problem.

Polecat
04-25-2015, 12:05 PM
Dark matter is the densest matter in the universe and black holes are found at the centers of most galaxies. Science doesn't really know what dark matter is, but infer its properties from it's affect on other matter. The more dark matter a galaxy has, the bigger the black hole. Too much dark matter and stars don't/can't form, the galaxy is just a giant region of gases.
I respectfully flag your statement as being incorrect. Black holes are not associated with dark matter in that manner. They are a concentration of standard matter so dense that the gravity associated with it traps light.

MisterVeritis
04-25-2015, 12:05 PM
It is part of the reason for composing the theory of dark energy. It explains why gravity is not slowing the expansion of space.
Then you mean it repels that which we can see. Not that it repels itself.

MisterVeritis
04-25-2015, 12:06 PM
Unless the other pole lay in a different dimension.
String theory?

Dr. Who
04-25-2015, 12:07 PM
I respectfully flag your statement as being incorrect. Black holes are not associated with dark matter in that manner. They are a concentration of standard matter so dense that the gravity associated with it traps light.
They found a link between them: http://www.zmescience.com/space/observations/dark-matter-black-hole-20022015/

MisterVeritis
04-25-2015, 12:18 PM
Actually I misspoke, dark energy repels. It's the reason that the universe is constantly expanding. Dark matter is associated with black holes.
There are several themes about dark matter/energy. None of them are satisfying.

Polecat
04-25-2015, 12:18 PM
Then you mean it repels that which we can see. Not that it repels itself.

The mechanism is as well understood as the idea itself. Repel as in two like poles of a magnet is not a likely analogy. The astrophysicists haven't been able to make a ruling yet on what exactly could be going on. No way I can compete with their level of study. It is 100% hunch on my part that a mistake has occurred somewhere in the math and is driving research into some weird places in an attempt to make 2+2=5.

Dr. Who
04-25-2015, 12:19 PM
There are several themes about dark matter/energy. None of them are satisfying.
Science in its infancy.

MisterVeritis
04-25-2015, 12:21 PM
They found a link between them: http://www.zmescience.com/space/observations/dark-matter-black-hole-20022015/
That is not so much a link as a correlation.

MisterVeritis
04-25-2015, 12:21 PM
Science in its infancy.
We agree.

MisterVeritis
04-25-2015, 12:24 PM
The mechanism is as well understood as the idea itself. Repel as in two like poles of a magnet is not a likely analogy. The astrophysicists haven't been able to make a ruling yet on what exactly could be going on. No way I can compete with their level of study. It is 100% hunch on my part that a mistake has occurred somewhere in the math and is driving research into some weird places in an attempt to make 2+2=5.
The only interaction with us I am aware of the way it light curves as it passes through vast quantities of it. Of course I do not read the journals often. In fact no more than quarterly or when the topic comes up on a board.

Polecat
04-25-2015, 12:28 PM
They found a link between them: http://www.zmescience.com/space/observations/dark-matter-black-hole-20022015/

Thanks for the link but the article really dose not say they have found a link. It says they believe there may be a link. And it stands to reason that if there really is such a thing as dark matter it would interact uniformly across the universe as do the other precepts. I applaud their efforts but still believe this will get about as far as string theory has and stall out.

Polecat
04-25-2015, 12:33 PM
The only interaction with us I am aware of the way it light curves as it passes through vast quantities of it. Of course I do not read the journals often. In fact no more than quarterly or when the topic comes up on a board.

I thought the bigger issue is the inexplicable lack of deceleration gravity should be imposing on the expanding universe.

The Sage of Main Street
04-25-2015, 01:33 PM
Sometimes we think we got it all figured out. Then later find out we were mistaken. As far as I'm concerned the dark energy/matter that can not be perceived as anything other than abnormal behavior in the stuff we can see is an attempt to make flawed theories valid. Like trying to force a square peg through a round hole and learning in the process we grope in the dark for a light switch. Another slap in the face of relativity is the apparent speed at which the universe is expanding as we approach the limits of our ability to observe. Whole galaxies speeding from one another at far greater velocities than that of light indicate we have a boo boo somewhere. Fourth-dimensional energy originally entered this 3D universe at the square of the speed of light (6 light-years a second). Some of it turned into light, energy, matter, and space. Only that part slowed down. Our 3D world continues to expanded at c^2. dragging it with these distant galaxies because of the gravity of the forms left in its wake, including the gravity of space itself.

The Sage of Main Street
04-25-2015, 01:49 PM
The mechanism is as well understood as the idea itself. Repel as in two like poles of a magnet is not a likely analogy. The astrophysicists haven't been able to make a ruling yet on what exactly could be going on. No way I can compete with their level of study. It is 100% hunch on my part that a mistake has occurred somewhere in the math and is driving research into some weird places in an attempt to make 2+2=5. The light we see that originated at the earliest time was traveling faster than c, so its distance and age are not being measured accurately.

A pedestrian example. At 8 AM, you tell your boss you walked to work, a distance of 10 miles. He says, "You must have started before dawn (= the misunderstood age of those galaxies)," basing that on the speed people can walk ( =the speed of light). But you lied; you actually drove to work ( = ultralight speed), so he has the wrong answer for when you started your journey. Or, if he knew the time you left but thought you walked, he has the wrong answer for how far you live from work.

Polecat
04-25-2015, 01:54 PM
The light we see that originated at the earliest time was traveling faster than c, so its distance and age are not being measured accurately.

A pedestrian example. At 8 AM, you tell your boss you walked to work, a distance of 10 miles. He says, "You must have started before dawn (= the misunderstood age of those galaxies)," basing that on the speed people can walk ( =the speed of light). But you lied; you actually drove to work ( = ultralight speed), so he has the wrong answer for when you started your journey. Or, if he knew the time you left but thought you walked, he has the wrong answer for how far you live from work.

Thanks for keeping it "pedestrian". That is good analogy and easy to grasp.

MisterVeritis
04-25-2015, 01:55 PM
I thought the bigger issue is the inexplicable lack of deceleration gravity should be imposing on the expanding universe.
That is the reason for looking for an explanation. The indirect evidence is the degree of lensing for light passing through a very great quantity of something as it traveled from there to here.

The Sage of Main Street
04-25-2015, 01:56 PM
I thought the bigger issue is the inexplicable lack of deceleration gravity should be imposing on the expanding universe. Do you mean the gravity of the matter of the universe closer to us dragging these distant galaxies back and slowing them down? You're assuming that the farther away they are, the less their percentage of the universe's total mass. But there must be far more gravity beyond our present ability to see it that would accelerate them more than the closer gravity would slow them down.

Polecat
04-25-2015, 02:09 PM
Do you mean the gravity of the matter of the universe closer to us dragging these distant galaxies back and slowing them down? You're assuming that the farther away they are, the less their percentage of the universe's total mass. But there must be far more gravity beyond our present ability to see it that would accelerate them more than the closer gravity would slow them down.
Now that is intriguing. You think that up? The expansion is actually a collapse towards the heavier mass that lies beyond our sight? I like that idea. The center of the universe lies at its extremities. I may have to change my bong water after smoking on this for awhile.

Bob
04-25-2015, 03:29 PM
Dark matter is the densest matter in the universe and black holes are found at the centers of most galaxies. Science doesn't really know what dark matter is, but infer its properties from it's affect on other matter. The more dark matter a galaxy has, the bigger the black hole. Too much dark matter and stars don't/can't form, the galaxy is just a giant region of gases.

Where did you come up with this?

I own Brian Greene's great book and he states nobody has a clue what Dark Matter is. And Brian made no predictions.

Bob
04-25-2015, 03:32 PM
Now that is intriguing. You think that up? The expansion is actually a collapse towards the heavier mass that lies beyond our sight? I like that idea. The center of the universe lies at its extremities. I may have to change my bong water after smoking on this for awhile.

Among forces, Gravity is one of the very weakest forces.

Dr. Who
04-25-2015, 03:42 PM
Where did you come up with this?

I own Brian Greene's great book and he states nobody has a clue what Dark Matter is. And Brian made no predictions.
I said they don't know what it is. They only know how it affects other matter surrounding it.

Bob
04-25-2015, 03:44 PM
I said they don't know what it is. They only know how it affects other matter surrounding it.

Where did you come up with that? Dr. Who

Bob
04-25-2015, 03:45 PM
Nor does it interact with us in any way we know of. The room I sit in is filled with dark matter and dark energy. But I cannot measure either.

That is sort of how I too view dark matter.

Bob
04-25-2015, 03:46 PM
Anti-gravity implies that gravity is like electromagnetism with two opposing charges. It is interesting but not apparently the case.

I will keep that in mind. Could be that anti gravity is pure fiction.

Dr. Who
04-25-2015, 03:58 PM
Where did you come up with that? @Dr. Who (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=612)
Scientists have been observing imagery coming back from Hubble. https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/2015-07

Hal Jordan
04-25-2015, 03:59 PM
The ability to travel faster than light may be closer than we think.

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2015/04/nasa-may-have-accidentally-developed-a-warp-drive/

As to the supernatural, I firmly believe that there are many supernatural things out there. I have seen apparitions myself.

Bob
04-25-2015, 04:33 PM
Scientists have been observing imagery coming back from Hubble. https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/2015-07

Thanks for the article. Now i see where you are coming from.

Howey
04-25-2015, 05:55 PM
You know what's sad?
Peter1469 actually believes this shit.

William
04-25-2015, 09:00 PM
Aliens and super-intelligent life forms? I think Monty Python got it right.


Our universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding,
In all of the directions it can whiz;
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!

The Galaxy song from The Meaning of Life.

Hal Jordan
04-25-2015, 09:02 PM
Aliens and super-intelligent life forms? I think Monty Python got it right.



The Galaxy song from The Meaning of Life.

That seems depressing... I prefer to always look on the bright side of life...

Captain Obvious
04-25-2015, 11:00 PM
Aliens and super-intelligent life forms? I think Monty Python got it right.



The Galaxy song from The Meaning of Life.

Can I have your liver?

Howey
04-26-2015, 08:20 AM
You know what's sad?
Peter1469 actually believes this shit.

Wow. Peter1469's gone wild with the neg rep button!

149

The Sage of Main Street
04-26-2015, 01:36 PM
I respectfully flag your statement as being incorrect. Black holes are not associated with dark matter in that manner. They are a concentration of standard matter so dense that the gravity associated with it traps light. Black holes are an impossible concentration of matter. When they got close to maximum density, the matter would drain out of the universe back to where all matter came from.

Polecat
04-26-2015, 01:48 PM
This could explain why bathtub drains are so terrifying to small children.

The Sage of Main Street
04-26-2015, 01:48 PM
Thanks for keeping it "pedestrian". That is good analogy and easy to grasp. Here's an analogy about the Quantum Leap that the authoritarians smugly make fun of but don't dare try to answer.

You're shuffling along a two-dimensional plane, the sidewalk, traveling from A to B by covering the space in between, AB. But then you go from B to C without covering BC.

How? You lift your foot off the sidewalk at B and come down at C, you step. That means you leave the two-dimensional plane and come back through the third dimension. So the Quantum Leap necessitates a fourth spatial dimension, because displacement without motion is impossible.

The Sage of Main Street
04-26-2015, 02:01 PM
Now that is intriguing. You think that up? The expansion is actually a collapse towards the heavier mass that lies beyond our sight? I like that idea. The center of the universe lies at its extremities. I may have to change my bong water after smoking on this for awhile. But if it has been discovered that those galaxies are going faster than the speed of light, it would be because the mass beyond them has ultragravity due to the fact that it is the entry substance of the universe and is still going faster than the speed of light itself.

For some reason, the speed of light within our region and the potential for gravitational pull are both constant. So there must be a minimum speed for light. Scientists are too shallow; no one has ever asked why it is only 186,000 miles a second. What is dragging on it?

The Sage of Main Street
04-26-2015, 02:14 PM
This could explain why bathtub drains are so terrifying to small children. Physicists are escapist nerd misfits with the minds of small children, silly and stubborn and believing whatever is the most fun to believe.

Polecat
04-26-2015, 02:18 PM
But if it has been discovered that those galaxies are going faster than the speed of light, it would be because the mass beyond them has ultragravity due to the fact that it is the entry substance of the universe and is still going faster than the speed of light itself.

For some reason, the speed of light within our region and the potential for gravitational pull are both constant. So there must be a minimum speed for light. Scientists are too shallow; no one has ever asked why it is only 186,000 miles a second. What is dragging on it?

I have always had trouble digesting this notion. I suspect it had to be declared a constant or the equations would go to pieces.

Polecat
04-26-2015, 02:20 PM
Physicists are escapist nerd misfits with the minds of small children, silly and stubborn and believing whatever is the most fun to believe.
Well I am guilty of using my mind as a playground myself. Especially since I have abandoned all ambition to rule the world.

The Sage of Main Street
04-27-2015, 08:59 AM
I have always had trouble digesting this notion. I suspect it had to be declared a constant or the equations would go to pieces. Why is every electron, proton, or neutron exactly the same as every other electron, proton, or neutron?

The Sage of Main Street
04-27-2015, 09:06 AM
Well I am guilty of using my mind as a playground myself. Especially since I have abandoned all ambition to rule the world. Unevolved King Apes rule the world. Prometheus is chained to the mountain made out of the parasites' corporate patents. A plutocratic primate rules by grunting, pounding his chest, howling at the moon, and hitting everybody with a club.

Polecat
04-27-2015, 09:09 AM
Why is every electron, proton, or neutron exactly the same as every other electron, proton, or neutron?

I never questioned that because it never occurred to me to do so. But it would seem that proving they are could be difficult.

MisterVeritis
04-27-2015, 07:36 PM
Why is every electron, proton, or neutron exactly the same as every other electron, proton, or neutron?
There are moments when I believe you are pretty smart.

Polecat
04-28-2015, 11:40 AM
Unevolved King Apes rule the world. Prometheus is chained to the mountain made out of the parasites' corporate patents. A plutocratic primate rules by grunting, pounding his chest, howling at the moon, and hitting everybody with a club.

Yup. Right off page three of my resume.

Common
04-28-2015, 11:42 AM
I think we have a few aliens hiding on this forum

nic34
04-28-2015, 11:47 AM
I think we have a few aliens hiding on this forum

As long as they're not illegal.....:wink:

Common
04-28-2015, 11:49 AM
As long as they're not illegal.....:wink:

If theyre not they should be DEPORT Their ass to umm jupiter? heheh

The Sage of Main Street
04-28-2015, 02:23 PM
Unevolved King Apes rule the world. Prometheus is chained to the mountain made out of the parasites' corporate patents. A plutocratic primate rules by grunting, pounding his chest, howling at the moon, and hitting everybody with a club.


Yup. Right off page three of my resume. It was all the resume' Dick Cheney needed at Halliburton.

Mini Me
05-24-2015, 11:35 PM
How many people do you think heard about this area for the first time on Ancient Aliens and know nothing else about it other than what they are told by Giorgio? I'd say a lot of viewers. They might feel differently if they looked up what scholars are actually saying about it.

You're no fun at all! As always, you piss all over everything, and suck the joy out of the room!

Its a mysterious world we live in!

Redrose
05-25-2015, 01:15 AM
Claims a former Canadian Minister of Defense (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3051151/Governments-HIDING-aliens-claims-former-defence-minister-Paul-Hellyer-urges-world-leaders-reveal-secret-files.html).


I think we may be a science project for some highly advance species. They may be so far advanced that time measurement may be very different too. The life of planet earth a few billion years old may be a year or decade in their world. We keep trying to understand the universe with the measurements we know. It would take us many light years to travel to the edge of our solar system, travel to the deep outer space is immeasurable. Yet we may have visitors here who can travel distances like that easily.

I keep an open mind, there is much we do not know about the universe.

OGIS
06-03-2015, 12:53 PM
When I think of how many stars are in the sky, I wonder how we can be so vain as to believe we are the only intelligent life form in existence. Looking at it that way, the odds are that some of them are more advanced than we are.

You assume a lot.

PolWatch
06-03-2015, 01:00 PM
You assume a lot.

you are right....assuming we are an intelligent life form is sometimes a leap....