On Plane Crashes, Police Custody Deaths and Race Riots!

[Kurmugeon]

Hypothetical scenario of a plane crash caused primarily by a cascade of small human errors and character flaws.

1] John Smith, Traveling salesman, in a troubled marriage, stays out late drinking, and arrives at the airport late, with his checked bag poorly packed, and checks in at the very last possible moment.

2] The bag has to be searched by TSA, due to the late arrival. When the case is opened spill contents everywhere, irritating the searcher, and delaying the counter line, and the contents are jammed roughly back into the case and re-closed with a number of items hanging partly out of the seams of the suitcase.

3] On the conveyor belt, a sweatshirt drawstring, hanging out of the edge of the suit case, gets caught in a drive sprocket, and flips the case off of the conveyor, down upon the head of a airport cargo loading tech, pops open, spinning contents everywhere, hinges and latch completely busted, and is set aside, never to board the aircraft.

4] But the nasty hand injury suffered by the loader, in a rapid block of the falling suitcase. is bleeding like crazy! Another suitcase also knocked off of the conveyor, pops open, leaking women's lingerie out of the seams when re-closed. The injured loader ignores the company procedures for on-the-job injuries, and presses-on to load the cart of baggage, nursing a hastily bandaged hand, his judgment impaired by the left over dental work oxycodone pills his supervisor gave him to "just get through the end of this shift". His fingers slick with blood, distracted by pain and irritation, he fails to properly close the cargo hatch, and misses the few inches of a brazier strap hanging out of a corner of the door.

5] One the stewardess giving refreshment to the flight crew, is very angry with the pilot, for his having become engaged to that BITCH Carla!, a stewardess from a competing airline, even after he told her he "loved" her, every time they slept together. So, she uses the microwave to super heat his coffee, in a petty attempt scald his lying tongue.

6] The Pilot is just reaching for his non-standard sized Coffee Mug coffee mug, made for the cockpit cup holders of another type aircraft. It almost fits the cup holder, and is an official cockpit approved model, just not for this type of aircraft. And it has a special, hidden double entendre monogram etched into the front, next to the Captain's Name, a gift from his fiancée, the lovely Carla. The bra strap, hanging from cargo load hatch, being dragged by the slip stream, is further and further out of the crevasse between door and airframe, dragging its suitcase behind, until it bangs against the door, in a moment of turbulence, and the door pops open, dropping out the suitcase, which is promptly ingested by the jet engine, causing massive compressor blade failure and flame out. The sudden damage causes the plane to lurch, and the pilots hand clips the coffee cup on the way to the control yoke, and the cup goes flying.

7] Distracted by pain of over-hot burning coffee, in a critical moment of rapid decision, the Pilot begins a turn back toward the runway for an emergency landing, but makes the fatal error on going right, instead of left, placing the wing with the destroyed engine on the inside of the turn, where its drag and lack of power, makes the tendency of the aircraft to yawl further right and roll at a steeper angle, greatly amplified.

8] The Co-Pilot, distracted by the anguished burn screams of the pilot, hits Intercom rather than Emergency Radio, transmit switch, and broadcasts to the passenger cabin, rather than the ATC tower, the in-flight emergency of a cabin depressurization, and engine failure.

9] Two months earlier, during extended aircraft maintenance, a new dome antenna, to make a data link to satellites was installed atop the aircraft, a few feet forward of the wing root, to allow an aggressive new startup company, to sell in-flight wifi access to passengers, for their cells, and laptops. Desperate to get rapid approval of their product, the CEO uses a few shady lobbyists to bribe the FAA officials into signing off on the impact of the antenna on the aircraft's flight characteristics, even though the complete, normal round of wind tunnel and flight tests had not been completed.

10] Many passenger's hearing the Co-Pilot's intercom announcement of the Aircraft's Peril, hop out of their seats, and rush the damaged wing side of the aircraft to peer out of the windows. Some passengers are flung to the downward side of the aircraft, because they faked/ignored the stewardesses requirement to wear the seat belts during take-off and landing. They ALWAYS do so, out of spite, discomfort, ignorance, and contempt for authorities. Some passenger who were belted in, release their belts, and rush with cell video cam's in hand, hoping to film the drama, for later big profits in selling the footage to MSM News agencies. The sudden shift of the body weight of two dozen passengers rushing to that side of the aircraft, makes center of gravity of the plane suddenly shift, and furthers the wing dip on that side.

Finne] The bouncing coffee mug rolls under the rudder pedals, making a coordinated turn impossible. Slip stream air, coming across, rather than down the fuselage, passing over the untested antenna dome, becomes turbulent, and a roiling vortex, right as it hits the wing root of the in-board to the turn wing. This creates a wave of stalled air, which rushes down the length of the leading edge of the wing, completely stalling and halting all lift product on ONE SIDE of the Aircraft. The Aircraft rapidly flips almost 180 degrees upside down, drops a critical 100 knots of airspeed, stalls completely on both wings, and then plunges nearly two thousand feet straight down to kill all aboard.


--------------------

Now, Apply this same kind of thinking/scenario to a few of things which might have contributed to a chain of events which led to Freddie Gray dying in police custody.

Questions for Debate:

Can't you see how the Police Custody Death of Freddie Gray is likely to turn out to be not caused by any single person's "Guilt" or mistake, but a long series of small mistakes and misjudgments, which cascaded?!

Can you think of a few of the factors, such as over-worked, irritated Police officers, or Freddie being paranoid, after previous arrests, which might have contributed, each in a small way, to the cascade?

Without a clear, single, mistake, to blame the death upon, doesn't such situations make it possible to demagogue and manipulate the death into an incitement to riots, by those who profit from the chaos?

Shouldn't we WAIT to hear what the investigation reveals?

-

[midcan5]

The OP makes no sense, a rather weird apologetic for police brutality. Ever been stopped by police? Be very careful especially if your skin color tends towards a deep tan. My brother was brutalized by the police and I fought internal affairs over consequences, but group-think manages organizations and you'll get no justice internally. People who engage in these odd apologies for wrong seem to forget the world they live in. Anyone here remember Rodney King, Anyone here remember the simple attempt to attend school in the South? Odd when it comes to police brutality - state violence against a citizen - how forgiveness finds lots of reasons. In other cases the State is often wrong, think about that for a bit.

"The main hypothesis concerning group-think is this: the more amiability and espirt de corps among the members of an in-group of policymakers the greater the danger that independent critical thinking will be replaced by groupthink, which is likely to result in irrational and the dehumanizing actions directed at out-groups." Irving L. Janis in 'Sanctions for Evil'

[Common]

The OP makes no sense, a rather weird apologetic for police brutality. Ever been stopped by police? Be very careful especially if your skin color tends towards a deep tan. My brother was brutalized by the police and I fought internal affairs over consequences, but group-think manages organizations and you'll get no justice internally. People who engage in these odd apologies for wrong seem to forget the world they live in. Anyone here remember Rodney King, Anyone here remember the simple attempt to attend school in the South? Odd when it comes to police brutality - state violence against a citizen - how forgiveness finds lots of reasons. In other cases the State is often wrong, think about that for a bit.

"The main hypothesis concerning group-think is this: the more amiability and espirt de corps among the members of an in-group of policymakers the greater the danger that independent critical thinking will be replaced by groupthink, which is likely to result in irrational and the dehumanizing actions directed at out-groups." Irving L. Janis in 'Sanctions for Evil'

Midcan even if you were 100% right, are you going to agree that people have to stop making excuses for black street crime that necessitates OTHER PEOPLE to call 911 and in need of dire assistance. WHEN are the cop haters going to EVER address that.
Liberal progressives that hate police use blacks as an excuse to avoid talking about the very real black problems in the ghetto and sheer volume of black crime and violence because of it. Its so convenient to just blame White cops, know what fuck that.

[Cigar]

The OP makes no sense, a rather weird apologetic for police brutality. Ever been stopped by police? Be very careful especially if your skin color tends towards a deep tan. My brother was brutalized by the police and I fought internal affairs over consequences, but group-think manages organizations and you'll get no justice internally. People who engage in these odd apologies for wrong seem to forget the world they live in. Anyone here remember Rodney King, Anyone here remember the simple attempt to attend school in the South? Odd when it comes to police brutality - state violence against a citizen - how forgiveness finds lots of reasons. In other cases the State is often wrong, think about that for a bit.

"The main hypothesis concerning group-think is this: the more amiability and espirt de corps among the members of an in-group of policymakers the greater the danger that independent critical thinking will be replaced by groupthink, which is likely to result in irrational and the dehumanizing actions directed at out-groups." Irving L. Janis in 'Sanctions for Evil'

It's a Battle they know they are glossing ... it's just that last cry out for help before they flushed out and floating with the other Tirds of their kind. :laugh:

[Common]

It's a Battle they know they are glossing ... it's just that last cry out for help before they flushed out and floating with the other Tirds of their kind. :laugh:

If it wasnt for rectums you would be unable to speak

[Cigar]

If it wasnt for rectums you would be unable to speak

... and you would be unable to Eat :laugh:

[domer76]

Midcan even if you were 100% right, are you going to agree that people have to stop making excuses for black street crime that necessitates OTHER PEOPLE to call 911 and in need of dire assistance. WHEN are the cop haters going to EVER address that.
Liberal progressives that hate police use blacks as an excuse to avoid talking about the very real black problems in the ghetto and sheer volume of black crime and violence because of it. Its so convenient to just blame White cops, know what fuck that.

The 'white cop' situations that we are seeing time and again are merely one manifestation of the real "black ghetto problem" that you refer to. But you make a good point. Let's talk about those real problems. Educational apartheid, 'war on drugs', selective law enforcement, fleeing investments, lack of opportunity, on and on.

[Polecat]

Hypothetical scenario of a plane crash caused primarily by a cascade of small human errors and character flaws.

1] John Smith, Traveling salesman, in a troubled marriage, stays out late drinking, and arrives at the airport late, with his checked bag poorly packed, and checks in at the very last possible moment.

2] The bag has to be searched by TSA, due to the late arrival. When the case is opened spill contents everywhere, irritating the searcher, and delaying the counter line, and the contents are jammed roughly back into the case and re-closed with a number of items hanging partly out of the seams of the suitcase.

3] On the conveyor belt, a sweatshirt drawstring, hanging out of the edge of the suit case, gets caught in a drive sprocket, and flips the case off of the conveyor, down upon the head of a airport cargo loading tech, pops open, spinning contents everywhere, hinges and latch completely busted, and is set aside, never to board the aircraft.

4] But the nasty hand injury suffered by the loader, in a rapid block of the falling suitcase. is bleeding like crazy! Another suitcase also knocked off of the conveyor, pops open, leaking women's lingerie out of the seams when re-closed. The injured loader ignores the company procedures for on-the-job injuries, and presses-on to load the cart of baggage, nursing a hastily bandaged hand, his judgment impaired by the left over dental work oxycodone pills his supervisor gave him to "just get through the end of this shift". His fingers slick with blood, distracted by pain and irritation, he fails to properly close the cargo hatch, and misses the few inches of a brazier strap hanging out of a corner of the door.

5] One the stewardess giving refreshment to the flight crew, is very angry with the pilot, for his having become engaged to that BITCH Carla!, a stewardess from a competing airline, even after he told her he "loved" her, every time they slept together. So, she uses the microwave to super heat his coffee, in a petty attempt scald his lying tongue.

6] The Pilot is just reaching for his non-standard sized Coffee Mug coffee mug, made for the cockpit cup holders of another type aircraft. It almost fits the cup holder, and is an official cockpit approved model, just not for this type of aircraft. And it has a special, hidden double entendre monogram etched into the front, next to the Captain's Name, a gift from his fiancée, the lovely Carla. The bra strap, hanging from cargo load hatch, being dragged by the slip stream, is further and further out of the crevasse between door and airframe, dragging its suitcase behind, until it bangs against the door, in a moment of turbulence, and the door pops open, dropping out the suitcase, which is promptly ingested by the jet engine, causing massive compressor blade failure and flame out. The sudden damage causes the plane to lurch, and the pilots hand clips the coffee cup on the way to the control yoke, and the cup goes flying.

7] Distracted by pain of over-hot burning coffee, in a critical moment of rapid decision, the Pilot begins a turn back toward the runway for an emergency landing, but makes the fatal error on going right, instead of left, placing the wing with the destroyed engine on the inside of the turn, where its drag and lack of power, makes the tendency of the aircraft to yawl further right and roll at a steeper angle, greatly amplified.

8] The Co-Pilot, distracted by the anguished burn screams of the pilot, hits Intercom rather than Emergency Radio, transmit switch, and broadcasts to the passenger cabin, rather than the ATC tower, the in-flight emergency of a cabin depressurization, and engine failure.

9] Two months earlier, during extended aircraft maintenance, a new dome antenna, to make a data link to satellites was installed atop the aircraft, a few feet forward of the wing root, to allow an aggressive new startup company, to sell in-flight wifi access to passengers, for their cells, and laptops. Desperate to get rapid approval of their product, the CEO uses a few shady lobbyists to bribe the FAA officials into signing off on the impact of the antenna on the aircraft's flight characteristics, even though the complete, normal round of wind tunnel and flight tests had not been completed.

10] Many passenger's hearing the Co-Pilot's intercom announcement of the Aircraft's Peril, hop out of their seats, and rush the damaged wing side of the aircraft to peer out of the windows. Some passengers are flung to the downward side of the aircraft, because they faked/ignored the stewardesses requirement to wear the seat belts during take-off and landing. They ALWAYS do so, out of spite, discomfort, ignorance, and contempt for authorities. Some passenger who were belted in, release their belts, and rush with cell video cam's in hand, hoping to film the drama, for later big profits in selling the footage to MSM News agencies. The sudden shift of the body weight of two dozen passengers rushing to that side of the aircraft, makes center of gravity of the plane suddenly shift, and furthers the wing dip on that side.

Finne] The bouncing coffee mug rolls under the rudder pedals, making a coordinated turn impossible. Slip stream air, coming across, rather than down the fuselage, passing over the untested antenna dome, becomes turbulent, and a roiling vortex, right as it hits the wing root of the in-board to the turn wing. This creates a wave of stalled air, which rushes down the length of the leading edge of the wing, completely stalling and halting all lift product on ONE SIDE of the Aircraft. The Aircraft rapidly flips almost 180 degrees upside down, drops a critical 100 knots of airspeed, stalls completely on both wings, and then plunges nearly two thousand feet straight down to kill all aboard.


--------------------

Now, Apply this same kind of thinking/scenario to a few of things which might have contributed to a chain of events which led to Freddie Gray dying in police custody.

Questions for Debate:

Can't you see how the Police Custody Death of Freddie Gray is likely to turn out to be not caused by any single person's "Guilt" or mistake, but a long series of small mistakes and misjudgments, which cascaded?!

Can you think of a few of the factors, such as over-worked, irritated Police officers, or Freddie being paranoid, after previous arrests, which might have contributed, each in a small way, to the cascade?

Without a clear, single, mistake, to blame the death upon, doesn't such situations make it possible to demagogue and manipulate the death into an incitement to riots, by those who profit from the chaos?

Shouldn't we WAIT to hear what the investigation reveals?

-

You went to a fair amount of trouble to vividly elaborate how complex a recipe for disaster can be. And you got to see first hand in the immediate replies how it can be compounded by primitive emotions that can't move beyond the "BURN THE WITCH" mentality.

[Captain Obvious]

So... who read all that?

Either you have my profound admiration or my sincere sympathies.

[Polecat]

So... who read all that?

Either you have my profound admiration or my sincere sympathies.

It was a well thought out and well written piece. Worth the effort to read. Or burn if that it is your nature.

[Safety]

You want people to wait until the investigation is complete before voicing their opinions, yet "Obama brought Ebola into America to kill whites", "Eric Holder killed two border control agents", "Clinton killed Ambassador Stevens", "Mayor De Blasio killed the two NY policemen by talking to his son", are just fine to opine on....

Right.

[Polecat]

Weak argument. i.e. "You act retarded but I'm not supposed to act retarded?" We all are going to have our retard moments in life but only a true retard can defend it as a good form.

[Crepitus]

It was a well thought out and well written piece. Worth the effort to read. Or burn if that it is your nature.
It's likely not his, I've seen it at least 2 other places this morning.

[Polecat]

It's likely not his, I've seen it at least 2 other places this morning.

Did you read and understand the analogy?

[Ivan88]

Hypothetical scenario of a plane crash caused primarily by a cascade of small human errors and character flaws. .
.................................................. .................................................. ....................
.................................................. .................................................. .............................
The Aircraft rapidly flips almost 180 degrees upside down, drops a critical 100 knots of airspeed, stalls completely on both wings, and then plunges nearly two thousand feet straight down to kill all aboard.


--------------------

Now, Apply this same kind of thinking/scenario to a few of things which might have contributed to a chain of events which led to Freddie Gray dying in police custody.

Questions for Debate:

Can't you see how the Police Custody Death of Freddie Gray is likely to turn out to be not caused by any single person's "Guilt" or mistake, but a long series of small mistakes and misjudgments, which cascaded?!

Can you think of a few of the factors, such as over-worked, irritated Police officers, or Freddie being paranoid, after previous arrests, which might have contributed, each in a small way, to the cascade?

Without a clear, single, mistake, to blame the death upon, doesn't such situations make it possible to demagogue and manipulate the death into an incitement to riots, by those who profit from the chaos?

Shouldn't we WAIT to hear what the investigation reveals?

-

Thank You Kurmugeon for noticing that the cops are to blame, even though our political system of lies, coercion, blackmail, killing and plunder
is also a main culprit.

[Captain Obvious]

It was a well thought out and well written piece. Worth the effort to read. Or burn if that it is your nature.

I actually started to read it until the "what the fuck am I reading this shit for" moment hit me.

[Crepitus]

Did you read and understand the analogy?
I read it, and I see the parallel he is trying to draw. I do not agree that it exists though.

[Polecat]

I actually started to read it until the "what the fuck am I reading this shit for" moment hit me.

Would like an abbreviated synopsis? How about a picture of a girl jumping on a trampoline instead?

[Polecat]

I read it, and I see the parallel he is trying to draw. I do not agree that it exists though.

So you are saying the cop(s) alone are entirely responsible for all this carnage? The dead guy? The east coast weather?

[Common Sense]

Airplanes have sensors that tell them if something is blocking the door. Not to mention proper pressurization could not have occurred.

[Polecat]

Airplanes have sensors that tell them if something is blocking the door. Not to mention proper pressurization could not have occurred.

These things actually have occurred. This is why there are sensors - now.

[Safety]

Weak argument. i.e. "You act retarded but I'm not supposed to act retarded?" We all are going to have our retard moments in life but only a true retard can defend it as a good form.

I never said it was a good argument, but then again I never said hypocrisy was a one way street.

[Crepitus]

So you are saying the cop(s) alone are entirely responsible for all this carnage? The dead guy? The east coast weather?
I'm saying there is someone who broke this guys back. That wasn't an accident, or the culmination of a long chain of errors.

[Captain Obvious]

Would like an abbreviated synopsis? How about a picture of a girl jumping on a trampoline instead?

I'll go with the trampoline

[Safety]

So you are saying the cop(s) alone are entirely responsible for all this carnage? The dead guy? The east coast weather?

No, but then again when a sequence of events were shown to cause an event like Ferguson, how many cared about the events that lead to the cause?

[Polecat]

No, but then again when a sequence of events were shown to cause an event like Ferguson, how many cared about the events that lead to the cause?

Pretty much nobody. And as long as the procedure remains limited to {Step 1. Find a patsy. Step 2. Crucify the patsy.} The change that we need is being over looked while the change that we get is rioting.

[lynn]

If the public chooses to not support blacks being killed by police then its just a matter of time when whites will suffer the same injustice.

[Captain Obvious]

If the public chooses to not support blacks being killed by police then its just a matter of time when whites will suffer the same injustice.

If whites start acting like thugs and criminals and belligerent TV stealing, pants down, basketball shoe looting thugs then yeah, you're right, hopefully.

[Safety]

If the public chooses to not support blacks being killed by police then its just a matter of time when whites will suffer the same injustice.

History has shown that not to be the case. If it gets to a certain point, changes would be made to the system.

[Captain Obvious]

History has shown that not to be the case. If it gets to a certain point, changes would be made to the system.

Example?

Por favor?

[Safety]

Example?

Por favor?

Look at any small town government. If things start to get out of hand, the citizens there will either remove whoever is in office or shut it down completely and start anew.

On large scale, just look at instances of gerrymandering or redistricting to nullify certain areas.

[Polecat]

Look at any small town government. If things start to get out of hand, the citizens there will either remove whoever is in office or shut it down completely and start anew.

On large scale, just look at instances of gerrymandering or redistricting to nullify certain areas.

That's not how it went down in the rural south. The feds had to intervene.

[Captain Obvious]

Look at any small town government. If things start to get out of hand, the citizens there will either remove whoever is in office or shut it down completely and start anew.

On large scale, just look at instances of gerrymandering or redistricting to nullify certain areas.

I live in small town USA, not sure I understand your point.

Gerrymandering is one of those things like voter fraud, both sides claim the other side engages in it but in reality the problem is marginal at best.

[Safety]

I live in small town USA, not sure I understand your point.

Gerrymandering is one of those things like voter fraud, both sides claim the other side engages in it but in reality the problem is marginal at best.

http://jacksonville.com/news/georgia/2012-06-11/story/mayor-graham-ga-forced-out-towns-finances-investigated
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/06/us/ellisville-mo-mayor-facing-impeachment.html?_r=0
http://www.kctv5.com/story/18984207/platte-county-atty-seeks-ouster-of-tracy-mayor

[Captain Obvious]

http://jacksonville.com/news/georgia/2012-06-11/story/mayor-graham-ga-forced-out-towns-finances-investigated
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/06/us/ellisville-mo-mayor-facing-impeachment.html?_r=0
http://www.kctv5.com/story/18984207/platte-county-atty-seeks-ouster-of-tracy-mayor

What's your point exactly?

[Safety]

What's your point exactly?

When events happen on a small scale it is easier to deal with the cause of the events (remove officials from office, etc.). In bigger cities, it is much harder to implement change.

What demographic lives in 99% of small towns?

[Captain Obvious]

When events happen on a small scale it is easier to deal with the cause of the events (remove officials from office, etc.). In bigger cities, it is much harder to implement change.

Why?

[Safety]

Why?

I edited my post above.

It is easier to change government in small towns when you are able to participate in the town meetings, etc.

Big cities, not so much.

[Polecat]

I edited my post above.

It is easier to change government in small towns when you are able to participate in the town meetings, etc.

Big cities, not so much.

C'mon! The black community got to participate. They got hung and beat and ostracized. That's participation. You are going to great lengths to step around the dead elephant in the room.

[Safety]

C'mon! The black community got to participate. They got hung and beat and ostracized. That's participation. You are going to great lengths to step around the dead elephant in the room.

https://media.giphy.com/media/AqbIkrQk4Wspi/giphy.gif

[Captain Obvious]

I wasn't sure what Safety 's point was but the issue gets broad and complicated and not something I'm sure I want to engage right now.

[Safety]

I wasn't sure what Safety 's point was but the issue gets broad and complicated and not something I'm sure I want to engage right now.

I'll try again later.

[Polecat]

His point was large urban areas are plagued by inertia and anonymity where small communities are more like neighborhoods where people actually know each other and can adapt on the fly.

My counterpoint is that it takes more than that. I have seen neighbors that treat each other terrible over silly crap that shouldn't even be on the radar.

[Polecat]

I'll try again later.

And I'll come out from under my rock to chew on your ankles.

[Captain Obvious]

His point was large urban areas are plagued by inertia and anonymity where small communities are more like neighborhoods where people actually know each other and can adapt on the fly.

My counterpoint is that it takes more than that. I have seen neighbors that treat each other terrible over silly crap that shouldn't even be on the radar.

No, I get that but that's where it gets complicated.

The small-town things he cited, small-town politics can be thicker and chewier than big urban politics, that's the complexity.

It's a fascinating topic actually but an entirely different point that could get complicated.

[Captain Obvious]

And I'll come out from under my rock to chew on your ankles.

:angry:

[Redrose]

The OP makes no sense, a rather weird apologetic for police brutality. Ever been stopped by police? Be very careful especially if your skin color tends towards a deep tan. My brother was brutalized by the police and I fought internal affairs over consequences, but group-think manages organizations and you'll get no justice internally. People who engage in these odd apologies for wrong seem to forget the world they live in. Anyone here remember Rodney King, Anyone here remember the simple attempt to attend school in the South? Odd when it comes to police brutality - state violence against a citizen - how forgiveness finds lots of reasons. In other cases the State is often wrong, think about that for a bit.

"The main hypothesis concerning group-think is this: the more amiability and espirt de corps among the members of an in-group of policymakers the greater the danger that independent critical thinking will be replaced by groupthink, which is likely to result in irrational and the dehumanizing actions directed at out-groups." Irving L. Janis in 'Sanctions for Evil'


"Police brutality" why don't we wait to see what the investigation reveals.

These incidents with police were not the cops just picking on some innocent person just minding their own business. Every one of them was due to criminal behavior. Gray was selling drugs.

Stupid, stupid people can turn a simple jay walking offense or an arrest for drugs into ending up dead.

When they are confronted by police, many have the initial response to either flee, fight or kill the cop. Going along quietly doesn't seem to enter their mind.

To many, it's police brutality because police want to arrest them for breaking the law. They want cops to ignore the crimes because of the color of their skin. Many feel they are entitled, they can break the law, kill, steal, rob, loot, rape, sell drugs, use drugs, resist arrest because blacks have been oppressed. The police are bad because they are interferring with the criminal lifestyle.

They are being arrested because they are breaking the law, not because of their skin color.

Just look at all the decent black people, families, that never have any trouble with the police, because they are law abiding people.

[Kurmugeon]

It's likely not his, I've seen it at least 2 other places this morning.

I post my work on many forums. I use the same Kurmugeon user name were ever I post on Political Forums.

Your jealous sneering is unseemly.

-

[Kurmugeon]

Airplanes have sensors that tell them if something is blocking the door. Not to mention proper pressurization could not have occurred.

Aircraft have inflating seals around the door, and the structural gap between the door solid aluminum planes, and rim frame on the mating door is wide enough to often fit a pencil through, before the seals inflate.

Having a piece of nylon strap laying across a threshold, with a section flapping in the slip stream outside the aircraft, is not common, but I've seen the damage created by such on a number of occasions. The leakage of cabin pressure air around, and through the nylon strap is easily low enough to insure that cabin pressurization can be achieved and maintained.

The constant physical abrasion of the flapping strap, while it will eventually shred the strap, can be enough to weaken the skin of the aircraft at the spot of abrasion, and led to a localized rupture of the skin, and complete depressurization. There have been a number of documented cases.

Having partially or completely open access panels on aircraft be ripped away and have them fall to earth somewhere near an airport is a relatively common occurrence.

Having some structural element of an aircraft fall off, for a number of reasons, and FOD-out an engine is also an relatively common occurrence.

In most cases, these types of problems result in just a return to the nearest runway for an emergency landing.

I have a 20+ year background in military aviation, both as enlisted active duty, and as a civilian SMEE and have been a participant in a number of crash investigations and cleanup/recovery.

At Beale AFB in 1986, a KC135 Stratotanker was lost when cross winds caused the outboard engine to drag the runway on a touch-and-go, which FOD'd out the engine.

The instructor pilot, who was in the copilots chair, took control of the aircraft, which was well past the breakaway point, and accelerating to take back off again, when the accident started. He got the aircraft aloft on three engines, but a pilot error led to the 2nd engine on that wing, the inboard, to have it fire extinguisher fired, rather than the appropriate outboard only extinguisher. This left no power at all on one side of the aircraft.

The instructor pilot who was flying the plane, made the fatal error of turning with his powerless wing on the inside of the turn, and the result was almost exactly what I described in the Hypothetical Scenario.

Nine crew members were killed.

-

[William]

Hypothetical scenario of a plane crash caused primarily by a cascade of small human errors and character flaws. (snip)

The bra strap, hanging from cargo load hatch, being dragged by the slip stream, is further and further out of the crevasse between door and airframe, dragging its suitcase behind, until it bangs against the door, in a moment of turbulence, and the door pops open, dropping out the suitcase, which is promptly ingested by the jet engine, causing massive compressor blade failure and flame out. The sudden damage causes the plane to lurch, and the pilots hand clips the coffee cup on the way to the control yoke, and the cup goes flying.



Umm ... just one tiny niggle - from hours of watching 'Air Crash Investigations' I know that, unless the mechanism is faulty, aircraft cargo doors cannot open cos of a suitcase banging against them. They have an over-centre locking mechanism, and a row of locking pins which can only be released by movement of the locking handle on the outside of the aircraft. Also, baggage is in ULDs when it is loaded into a passenger aircraft.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Unloading_JAL_747.jpg/250px-Unloading_JAL_747.jpg

Sorry! :grin:

[Kurmugeon]

Umm ... just one tiny niggle - from hours of watching 'Air Crash Investigations' I know that, unless the mechanism is faulty, aircraft cargo doors cannot open cos of a suitcase banging against them. They have an over-centre locking mechanism, and a row of locking pins which can only be released by movement of the locking handle on the outside of the aircraft. Also, baggage is in ULDs when it is loaded into a passenger aircraft.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Unloading_JAL_747.jpg/250px-Unloading_JAL_747.jpg

Sorry! :grin:

You're deliberately missing the point of the OP.

Additionally, I never said what size or type of aircraft.

Many small, twin turbo jet passenger aircraft have too small of a cargo hold to use ULDs, and all baggage is hand loaded.

11329

11330

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All beautiful birds!

And you're nitpicking, rather than accepting the valid point of the OP.

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[William]

You're deliberately missing the point of the OP.

Additionally, I never said what size or type of aircraft.

Many small, twin turbo jet passenger aircraft have too small of a cargo hold to use ULDs, and all baggage is hand loaded.

All beautiful birds!

And you're nitpicking, rather than accepting the valid point of the OP.

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I'm not, but OK. :smiley:

[Kurmugeon]

I'm not an expert in plane crashes, nor in aviation safety. I did work for and around those experts occasionally, as I created and used pods on aircraft pylons for jamming, radar and other purposes. On those subjects, I am an expert, and not allowed to speak at all. My level of knowledge in crash forensics is just enough to know how ignorant I am.

But, I know just enough about crash forensics to write a plausible fiction about an aircraft tragedy, in the process of explaining how complex systems are never what they seem on the surface. Maybe not completely accurate in all respects, but that's not what is needed to communicate the core idea of the OP... WAIT for the Investigation.

This thread is obsolete now, in that the very subject it was written to address, has come true, and been proven out.

The motivations of the police officers involved in Freddie's death were not of racism, they were frustrated cops seeking law and order, who let their power and zeal cloud their judgement.

The Black Rioters who were throwing large metal objects through Pub windows at White Dinners, turned out to be nothing more than Loot seeking opportunist criminals at best, and manipulative, violently radical, anti-white, socialist revolution incitement terrorists at worst. And most of those instigating the violence were not even Baltimore Residents.

The low-income to middle class people of Baltimore lost big-time to the selfish interests of BOTH categories, and while the problem of police brutality is now on the radar and getting addressed, it is at the cost of losing 45 years worth of progress toward racial harmony.

Because of the Businesses and JOBS that will now leave Baltimore, low-income, innocent Baltimore citizens, black and white, will suffer more from the riots, than anyone else.

Sad and STUPID!

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[Safety]

I'm not an expert in plane crashes, nor in aviation safety. I did work for and around those experts occasionally, as I created and used pods on aircraft pylons for jamming, radar and other purposes. On those subjects, I am an expert, and not allowed to speak at all. My level of knowledge in crash forensics is just enough to know how ignorant I am.

But, I know just enough about crash forensics to write a plausible fiction about an aircraft tragedy, in the process of explaining how complex systems are never what they seem on the surface. Maybe not completely accurate in all respects, but that's not what is needed to communicate the core idea of the OP... WAIT for the Investigation.

This thread is obsolete now, in that the very subject it was written to address, has come true, and been proven out.

The motivations of the police officers involved in Freddie's death were not of racism, they were frustrated cops seeking law and order, who let their power and zeal cloud their judgement.

The Black Rioters who were throwing large metal objects through Pub windows at White Dinners, turned out to be nothing more than Loot seeking opportunist criminals at best, and manipulative, violently radical, anti-white, socialist revolution incitement terrorists at worst. And most of those instigating the violence were not even Baltimore Residents.

The low-income to middle class people of Baltimore lost big-time to the selfish interests of BOTH categories, and while the problem of police brutality is now on the radar and getting addressed, it is at the cost of losing 45 years worth of progress toward racial harmony.

Because of the Businesses and JOBS that will now leave Baltimore, low-income, innocent Baltimore citizens, black and white, will suffer more from the riots, than anyone else.

Sad and STUPID!

-

Post is full of irony.

Baltimore police were not motivated by racism, they can't be because we should wait for the investigation...

Those blacks in Baltimore are racist because they threw large metal objects through pub windows at white dinners.....string them up!

Barrack, Benghazi, 'bola, Baltimore - They have to be linked because they all start with a B.


:biglaugh: