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Peter1469
05-01-2015, 07:45 PM
What is a Sanders democrat? (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-04-30/bernie-sanders-can-t-beat-hillary-clinton-and-that-s-ok)

The last couple of days members have mentioned Sanders. Here is an article that goes into some detail. He is not part of the establishment, so that is a plus.


The anti-Hillary has arrived.


Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, who is announcing his campaign (http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-04-28/bernie-sanders-to-challenge-hillary-clinton) for president Thursday, will not be running for the Democratic nomination for president backed by a billion-dollar campaign operation (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/a-mighty-fundraising-operation-awaits-clinton-as-well-as-financial-hurdles/2015/03/19/c405a162-cd74-11e4-8a46-b1dc9be5a8ff_story.html), a powerful think tank (https://www.americanprogress.org/) or a lifetime collection of "Friends of Bill (http://news.yahoo.com/clinton-fundraisers-show-scope-family-network-185919140--election.html)." But as a self-described "democratic socialist" and fan of Scandinavian social welfare models, Sanders will have little trouble (http://www.latimes.com/la-na-c1-bernie-sanders-president-2016-20150306-story.html#page=1) defining himself.

***


Sanders, 73, supports free college tuition and vast public infrastructure investment. He favors publicly funded elections, a $15 federal minimum wage and single-payer health care. He laments the impact of globalization and expanded trade, which he believes has helped erode the American middle class and put too many working-class families on the road to penury. He is no fan of Wall Street, whose executives he deems "greedy (http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/recent-business/robin-hood-tax-to-reduce-wall-street-greed)" and whose banks he believes should be shrunk.


The senator makes his case without apology in a Brooklyn accent that -- despite decades of living in, and representing, Vermont -- can still strip the paint off a tenement radiator. No less an icon of rumple than former Representative Barney Frank once advised (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/magazine/21Sanders.t.html?pagewanted=all) Sanders that he might find greater appeal outside Vermont if he were to "comb his hair."

The Xl
05-01-2015, 08:01 PM
I'm guessing an actual leftist and not one of the fake establishment ones

Common
05-01-2015, 08:06 PM
Sanders cant win imho, americans do not like socialism and america will never become a scandinavia.
Sanders wont get past the independent moderates. He has some good points and some that will totally turn them off.
America rejects the far left progressives and the far right conservatives.

The Xl
05-01-2015, 08:12 PM
Sanders cant win imho, americans do not like socialism and america will never become a scandinavia.
Sanders wont get past the independent moderates. He has some good points and some that will totally turn them off.
America rejects the far left progressives and the far right conservatives.
America, willingly or unwittingly, doesn't matter either way, supports a fucked up corporatist system with a sprinkle of socialism to prevent the bottom from falling out of their ponzi scheme, throwing crumbs to keep people quiet. And both parties are more or less identical.

I, for one, would love to see an actual liberal and an actual small government libertarian go at it in the general election, ones with real ideas and beliefs with the intention of helping America and its people and not just the bankers and corporations that buy them off

PolWatch
05-01-2015, 08:23 PM
America, willingly or unwittingly, doesn't matter either way, supports a fucked up corporatist system with a sprinkle of socialism to prevent the bottom from falling out of their ponzi scheme, throwing crumbs to keep people quiet. And both parties are more or less identical.

I, for one, would love to see an actual liberal and an actual small government libertarian go at it in the general election, ones with real ideas and beliefs with the intention of helping America and its people and not just the bankers and corporations that buy them off

As long as our system is for sale to the highest bidder by PAC's, unions, & lobbyists, we will never see true choices.

Mac-7
05-01-2015, 10:17 PM
A sanders democrat is a Marxist who dreams of a one-party socialist state.

The Xl
05-01-2015, 10:18 PM
As long as our system is for sale to the highest bidder by PAC's, unions, & lobbyists, we will never see true choices.

For sure

Peter1469
05-01-2015, 10:18 PM
A sanders democrat is a Marxist who dreams of a one-party socialist state.

Not really. But I realize the differences in the various forms of Statism can get confusing for some people.

gamewell45
05-01-2015, 10:25 PM
America, willingly or unwittingly, doesn't matter either way, supports a $#@!ed up corporatist system with a sprinkle of socialism to prevent the bottom from falling out of their ponzi scheme, throwing crumbs to keep people quiet. And both parties are more or less identical.

I, for one, would love to see an actual liberal and an actual small government libertarian go at it in the general election, ones with real ideas and beliefs with the intention of helping America and its people and not just the bankers and corporations that buy them off

I think it would certainly make for a rather exciting election.

Common
05-01-2015, 10:28 PM
America, willingly or unwittingly, doesn't matter either way, supports a fucked up corporatist system with a sprinkle of socialism to prevent the bottom from falling out of their ponzi scheme, throwing crumbs to keep people quiet. And both parties are more or less identical.

I, for one, would love to see an actual liberal and an actual small government libertarian go at it in the general election, ones with real ideas and beliefs with the intention of helping America and its people and not just the bankers and corporations that buy them off

Everything is about the bankers and corporations, EVERYTHING because they buy and own everything and always have.

The Xl
05-01-2015, 10:29 PM
Everything is about the bankers and corporations, EVERYTHING because they buy and own everything and always have.

That is sadly the reality of it all.

The Xl
05-01-2015, 10:30 PM
I think it would certainly make for a rather exciting election.

Exiting and more importantly, productive

Common
05-01-2015, 10:33 PM
Exiting and more importantly, productive

The democrats wont give sanders enough pac money to compete. Omalley they say is damaged by this Baltimore blowup, Webb is still considering running. I know little about him.

So far theres 20 GOP running for potus. Is that ridiculous or what

Dr. Who
05-01-2015, 11:22 PM
A sanders democrat is a Marxist who dreams of a one-party socialist state.
At least he's an honest candidate, not in anyone's pocket.

PolWatch
05-02-2015, 07:15 AM
I think the more candidates, the better the choices. I suspect a lot of those running are simply trying to position themselves for a future run....this is just for getting name recognition for the future.

Peter1469
05-02-2015, 07:44 AM
True. A modern campaign is complicated. They are building teams and gaining experience.

Mac-7
05-02-2015, 08:06 AM
At least he's an honest candidate, not in anyone's pocket.

An honest Marxist?

Now there's a comforting thought.

What does that mean?

Maybe he won't spent a billion taxpayer dollar a year on himself and his family?

Or maybe after he retires Sanders won't collect million dollar speaking fees from foreigners seeking to buy influence like Clinton?

I notice that Obama has done great harm to this country even before becoming an ex-president for hire and so could Sanders with his goofy socialist ideas.

Tahuyaman
05-02-2015, 03:00 PM
Bernie Sanders calls himself an independent. He claims to be un-influenced by either party. Why isn't he running as an independent? Is this a bit of dishonesty or a hypocrisy on his part?

Peter1469
05-02-2015, 05:14 PM
Bernie Sanders calls himself an independent. He claims to be un-influenced by either party. Why isn't he running as an independent? Is this a bit of dishonesty or a hypocrisy on his part?

Because he wouldn't be able to get on the ballots of many states that way.

The Xl
05-02-2015, 05:18 PM
Bernie Sanders calls himself an independent. He claims to be un-influenced by either party. Why isn't he running as an independent? Is this a bit of dishonesty or a hypocrisy on his part?

Because they rig the game. Only Ds and Rs get coverage and publicity, the only way to make a real successful run and get your platform heard is by running on one of those two parties.

Archer0915
05-02-2015, 05:21 PM
What is a Sanders democrat? (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-04-30/bernie-sanders-can-t-beat-hillary-clinton-and-that-s-ok)

The last couple of days members have mentioned Sanders. Here is an article that goes into some detail. He is not part of the establishment, so that is a plus.

Sadly I do not like some of what he has to say but he will get my vote in the democratic primary! Yes I am a democrat because we got some good local ones, good christian people that range from moderate to conservative. We also have some sorry ass statist sell our repugnants round these parts.

Now in the general election I may just vote mickey mouse again if neither party can get a good showing candidate. Sanders does stand a chance.

Tahuyaman
05-02-2015, 05:44 PM
Because he wouldn't be able to get on the ballots of many states that way.

So he's a political prostitute?

Tahuyaman
05-02-2015, 05:46 PM
Because they rig the game. Only Ds and Rs get coverage and publicity, the only way to make a real successful run and get your platform heard is by running on one of those two parties.

How did Ross Perot generate so much attention from the media when he sabotaged the Bush 41 campaign?

Peter1469
05-02-2015, 05:56 PM
So he's a political prostitute?

Use used the same word twice. :smiley:

PolWatch
05-02-2015, 06:02 PM
How did Ross Perot generate so much attention from the media when he sabotaged the Bush 41 campaign?

Perot had enough money to finance his campaign....

Tahuyaman
05-02-2015, 06:06 PM
Use used the same word twice. :smiley:

I should reword that.

The Xl
05-02-2015, 06:11 PM
How did Ross Perot generate so much attention from the media when he sabotaged the Bush 41 campaign?
Being a multi billionaire and being able to buy ample air time among other things certainly helped. Politics is about money and advertising, and he didn't need anyone for either

Tahuyaman
05-02-2015, 06:11 PM
Perot had enough money to finance his campaign....

So, are third party candidates always irrelevant or not?

The problem with third party candidates is that they are always kooks and or conspiracy theorists of varying degrees. They are usually out there on the right or left fringe.

The Xl
05-02-2015, 06:11 PM
Perot had enough money to finance his campaign....

Bingo

The Xl
05-02-2015, 06:14 PM
So, are third party candidates always irrelevant or not?

The problem with third party candidates is that they are always kooks and or conspiracy theorists of varying degrees. They are usually out there on the right or left fringe.
Third parties do fine in the unlikely event that said candidate is a multi billionaire who is willing to spend whatever.

The rest of your post is baseless nonsense

Tahuyaman
05-02-2015, 06:19 PM
The money thing is just a cop out. If a reasonable and sensible third party candidate exists, he or she will generate enough support. As it is, they are all kooks and weirdos.

The Xl
05-02-2015, 06:21 PM
The money thing is just a cop out. If a reasonable and sensible third party candidate exists, he or she will generate enough support. As it is, they are all kooks and weirdos.

If the money is such a cop out, then why do all the Ds and Rs going grovel for it?

Tahuyaman
05-02-2015, 06:23 PM
If the money is such a cop out, then why do all the Ds and Rs going grovel for it?

credible candidates generate the needed support. Kooks and conspiracy theorists don't.

The Xl
05-02-2015, 06:27 PM
credible candidates generate the needed support. Kooks and conspiracy theorists don't.
Apparently, they don't generate enough support without money, otherwise, they wouldn't grovel for it.

PolWatch
05-02-2015, 06:29 PM
I don't think third party candidates are kooks, etc....or any kookier than the candidates for both major parties. Major parties = major money which provides all sorts of polish and training to make the odder aspects appear more mainstream.

Let's face it, only an egotist runs for the presidency. I suspect most of them are sociopaths....willing to say or do anything to obtain & keep power. What normal person, in their right mind would subject themselves & their families to the snake pit that modern politics has become?

Tahuyaman
05-02-2015, 06:30 PM
Apparently, they don't generate enough support without money, otherwise, they wouldn't grovel for it.

like I said, kooks and conspiracy theorists don't generate any support. Even if they ave a D or R after their name.

The Xl
05-02-2015, 06:33 PM
like I said, kooks and conspiracy theorists don't generate any support. Even if they ave a D or R after their name.
Those without money and media support don't generate interest, which is why establishment democrats and republicans grovel for money, and also why third parties don't generate interest outside of Ross Perot, who, you guessed it, had a ton of money

PolWatch
05-02-2015, 06:39 PM
Our system is not set up for candidates based on ideas but on dollars.

Tahuyaman
05-02-2015, 06:58 PM
Those without money and media support don't generate interest,

and you're not going to get that support if every time you open your mouth to speak, something kooky or flat out wierd comes out. Unfortunately third party candidates are weirdos of varying degrees.

Can an you recall one third party candidate who wasn't some kind of kook, crack-pot or conspiracy theorist?

Tahuyaman
05-02-2015, 07:00 PM
Our system is not set up for candidates based on ideas but on dollars.


Thats BS. If one presents solid and reasonable ideas the support will follow.

Peter1469
05-02-2015, 07:07 PM
I don't think third party candidates are kooks, etc....or any kookier than the candidates for both major parties. Major parties = major money which provides all sorts of polish and training to make the odder aspects appear more mainstream.

Let's face it, only an egotist runs for the presidency. I suspect most of them are sociopaths....willing to say or do anything to obtain & keep power. What normal person, in their right mind would subject themselves & their families to the snake pit that modern politics has become?

They are narcissists.

Tahuyaman
05-02-2015, 07:21 PM
I don't think third party candidates are kooks, etc....or any kookier than the candidates for both major parties.


Ok, name one. I can't think of one third party candidate who's not a crack-pot or a kook.

The Xl
05-02-2015, 07:21 PM
and you're not going to get that support if every time you open your mouth to speak, something kooky or flat out wierd comes out. Unfortunately third party candidates are weirdos of varying degrees.

Can an you recall one third party candidate who wasn't some kind of kook, crack-pot or conspiracy theorist?

What you find kooky is likely completely logical and rational in reality, but I'll play ball anyway. Rick Santorum is about as kooky as it gets, yet has a solid showing. Why? He had coverage and money behind him.

Mister D
05-02-2015, 07:27 PM
Most successful third party candidate eva...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C-kBVggFrs

PolWatch
05-02-2015, 07:57 PM
Ralph Nader

Mister D
05-02-2015, 08:09 PM
Ralph Nader

Nader doesn't even come close.

PolWatch
05-02-2015, 08:10 PM
the question was name a third party candidate that wasn't a kook. That leaves Wallace out.

Common
05-02-2015, 08:12 PM
the question was name a third party candidate that wasn't a kook. That leaves Wallace out.

That leaves nader out too, hes cracked

PolWatch
05-02-2015, 08:13 PM
nah...Nader was Green Party....one of the heroes of my youth....told ya I'm old flower child gone to seed!

Common
05-02-2015, 08:19 PM
nah...Nader was Green Party....one of the heroes of my youth....told ya I'm old flower child gone to seed!

You dont have to like what I like or vice versa :) I liked him when he was a consumer advocate before he ran for politics and turned into a loon after that

del
05-02-2015, 10:53 PM
the question was name a third party candidate that wasn't a kook. That leaves Wallace out.

:rofl:

del
05-02-2015, 10:54 PM
john anderson wasn't a kook, neither is bernie sanders.

Mister D
05-02-2015, 11:26 PM
the question was name a third party candidate that wasn't a kook. That leaves Wallace out.

My statement was that Wallace was the most successful third party candidate ever. That was in response to:


Ok, name one. I can't think of one third party candidate who's not a crack-pot or a kook.
@PolWatch (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1099) @del (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=770)

Dolts. :laugh:

Mister D
05-02-2015, 11:28 PM
john anderson wasn't a kook, neither is bernie sanders.

I can't call you a kook., del. You don't actually take a position on anything. :rofl:Um...yeah :undecided:

del
05-02-2015, 11:59 PM
have another drink

you'll get funnier, trust me

Peter1469
05-03-2015, 02:33 AM
Third parties have the deck stacked against them. After Perot, lots of states made it much more difficult for 3rd parties to get on ballots. There are several lawsuits ongoing trying to change that. Not sure if enough of them will resolve in time for 2016.

The Establishment has been very successful in getting many people to believe they only have two choices (D and R) and that there is a substantive difference.

Mister D
05-03-2015, 09:33 AM
Third parties have the deck stacked against them. After Perot, lots of states made it much more difficult for 3rd parties to get on ballots. There are several lawsuits ongoing trying to change that. Not sure if enough of them will resolve in time for 2016.

The Establishment has been very successful in getting many people to believe they only have two choices (D and R) and that there is a substantive difference.

We see a lot of that here. Time for a realignment.

Peter1469
05-03-2015, 10:16 AM
Sanders is going to be on ABC's "This Week" with George Snuffolufogous.

PolWatch
05-03-2015, 10:19 AM
Why would I bring Nader up in a discussion about non-kook third party candidates if he were a dem?

Peter1469
05-03-2015, 10:29 AM
He is on now. Message: government should work for the normal people and not the billionaires.

Rebuild the middle class.

Mister D
05-03-2015, 10:30 AM
He is on now. Message: government should work for the normal people and not the billionaires.

Rebuild the middle class.

Rather trite.

Peter1469
05-03-2015, 10:33 AM
Rather trite.

anti establishment is good.

Mister D
05-03-2015, 10:36 AM
anti establishment is good.

Oh, I agree and I'm on record stating Sanders adds substantially to what debate there is in this country. That said, who doesn't say things like that? Granted, one gets the impression that Bernie actually means it.

PolWatch
05-03-2015, 11:07 AM
A politician who actually believes what he says? I'm gonna have to find out about this fella.....

Green Arrow
05-03-2015, 11:11 AM
If more Democrats and the Democratic Party leadership were like Sanders, I would be a Democrat.

Tahuyaman
05-03-2015, 11:17 AM
What you find kooky is likely completely logical and rational in reality, but I'll play ball anyway. Rick Santorum is about as kooky as it gets, yet has a solid showing. Why? He had coverage and money behind him.


You're actually going to support your position by throwing out the name Rick Santorum? That actually provides more credence for my position.

Tahuyaman
05-03-2015, 11:19 AM
A politician who actually believes what he says? I'm gonna have to find out about this fella.....


Hes a socialist. Right up your alley.

Tahuyaman
05-03-2015, 11:28 AM
Ralph Nader


Nader doesn't even come close.

But he is a crack-pot, kook and conspiracy theorist rolled into one. Typical third party candidate.