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Chris
05-03-2015, 07:39 PM
The left has no ideology, they're all moderates.

Why does the left continue to lie about its ideological agenda? (http://www.aei.org/publication/why-does-the-left-continue-to-lie-about-its-ideological-agenda/)


We’ll come back to that in a moment.

Another beloved trinket in the nest of notions that make up elite groupthink is that liberals not only haven’t moved left, but they aren’t even liberals at all. A week doesn’t go by without Barack Obama insisting that he’s merely a pragmatist and problem-solver, with nary an ideological ax to grind. Shortly after he was re-elected, Obama told David Gregory, then the host of Meet the Press, the obvious takeaway of his presidency is that, “I’m not driven by some ideological agenda. I’m a pretty practical guy and I just want to make sure that things work.”

A few weeks later, he gave the most ideologically left-wing State of the Union address of any president since FDR.

This is a pattern. For whatever reason, liberals feel compelled — whether out of self-delusion or deliberate deception — to lie about the fact that they are liberals....

...Now, it is certainly true that Republicans are not without their problems. They desperately need coaching on how to talk about issues in a way that doesn’t alienate voters. But one of the reasons they need tutoring in this regard is that the press which reports on their campaigns is even more out of touch with reality than the allegedly out-of-touch Republicans they opine on.

If someone nods along when Obama ludicrously claims to have no ideological agenda, it’s no surprise he’ll shake his head when a conservative admits to having one. But at least the conservatives aren’t lying.

PattyHill
05-03-2015, 08:02 PM
I don't understand what the point of the article is. Nor what your point is.

Chris
05-03-2015, 08:06 PM
I don't understand what the point of the article is. Nor what your point is.

Simple, you have Obama claiming to not have an ideology and you have many on this forum claiming to be moderate when they're liberal. Is liberal such a dirty word?

Note, there are several liberals on this forum who openly say so and I like talking and arguing with them, so that's not the point.

PattyHill
05-03-2015, 08:09 PM
Simple, you have Obama claiming to not have an ideology and you have many on this forum claiming to be moderate when they're liberal. Is liberal such a dirty word?

Note, there are several liberals on this forum who openly say so and I like talking and arguing with them, so that's not the point.

Ok.

Common
05-03-2015, 08:16 PM
Someone tell chris that not only the left lies

Howey
05-03-2015, 08:18 PM
Incredible that people now are dredging up a comment Obama made two years ago. I guess the faux outrage barrel is running low on fuel.

Obama is a moderate liberal. Hillary even further to the right than that. Warren is more to the left in the modern liberal vein; Sanders is the ultimate liberal in the classic vein.

I consider myself somewhere between the latter two, but I'm also a pragmatic liberal and realize not all goals are immediately available.

PattyHill
05-03-2015, 08:25 PM
Well, I'm just confused because I've been accused so often of having a "liberal agenda" and now I'm told the problem is I DON'T have an agenda.

sigh.

GrassrootsConservative
05-03-2015, 08:28 PM
Well, I'm just confused because I've been accused so often of having a "liberal agenda" and now I'm told the problem is I DON'T have an agenda.

sigh.

The problem this thread is talking about is the left being dishonest about their agenda. IDK what you're talking about.

Chris
05-03-2015, 08:28 PM
Someone tell chris that not only the left lies

On this point the right readily admits to ideology.

Mister D
05-03-2015, 08:28 PM
Incredible that people now are dredging up a comment Obama made two years ago. I guess the faux outrage barrel is running low on fuel.

Obama is a moderate liberal. Hillary even further to the right than that. Warren is more to the left in the modern liberal vein; Sanders is the ultimate liberal in the classic vein.

I consider myself somewhere between the latter two, but I'm also a pragmatic liberal and realize not all goals are immediately available.

No oen is outraged, Howey, Well, I mean besides you.

GrassrootsConservative
05-03-2015, 08:29 PM
On this point the right readily admits to ideology.

We're unashamed because we have a time-proven ideology. The left has an ideology that has failed at many different points in time, and is failing America now.

Chris
05-03-2015, 08:29 PM
Incredible that people now are dredging up a comment Obama made two years ago. I guess the faux outrage barrel is running low on fuel.

Obama is a moderate liberal. Hillary even further to the right than that. Warren is more to the left in the modern liberal vein; Sanders is the ultimate liberal in the classic vein.

I consider myself somewhere between the latter two, but I'm also a pragmatic liberal and realize not all goals are immediately available.


^^Proof: "Obama is a moderate liberal....I'm also a pragmatic liberal" -- that's exactly what the OP says.

Chris
05-03-2015, 08:40 PM
Again, I want to be clear, I don't automatically associate having a liberal ideology with anything negative or evil. There are liberals here who acknowledge their ideology, as I mine, who I feel comfortable talking to and arguing with.

The question is why are some in denial.

GrassrootsConservative
05-03-2015, 08:43 PM
I think maybe it has something to do with they know what their true ideology is doing to the country and they don't want to have to own up to it? So instead they just say "not me, I'm a moderate. Not Obama, he's a moderate." Or whatever. Sort of a subverted No True Scotsman.

Hal Jordan
05-03-2015, 09:01 PM
Again, I want to be clear, I don't automatically associate having a liberal ideology with anything negative or evil. There are liberals here who acknowledge their ideology, as I mine, who I feel comfortable talking to and arguing with.

The question is why are some in denial.

It's true that oftentimes, people will use liberal or conservative as an insult. I find that amusing. Neither one is an insult. Some will accept it as one, though, and that's why they deny it, imo.

Chris
05-03-2015, 09:03 PM
It's true that oftentimes, people will use liberal or conservative as an insult. I find that amusing. Neither one is an insult. Some will accept it as one, though, and that's why they deny it, imo.

Agree, some use the terms as epithets, and that ruins communication, and probably scares some from identifying ideology.

Ideology as a word is itself often used negatively. To me its just a system of politics.

Ivan88
05-03-2015, 11:47 PM
Why shouldn't both wings of the chicken lie? As if wings could talk!
Since most so called Americans are so comfortable with lies, lies and more lies for so long, why should they expect anything but more comfortable lies.

William
05-04-2015, 01:09 AM
Simple, you have Obama claiming to not have an ideology and you have many on this forum claiming to be moderate when they're liberal. Is liberal such a dirty word?

Note, there are several liberals on this forum who openly say so and I like talking and arguing with them, so that's not the point.

I see this word liberals on forums in the US all the time, and everyone is supposed to know exactly what it means. I don't, so can you tell me exactly who you mean when you say 'the liberals'.

I Googled 'liberal' and I got stuff like this.


liberal

adjective

1. willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.

2. (of education) concerned with broadening a person's general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training.

noun

a person of liberal views.


None of that seems bad to me, but I don't think you are using 'liberal' in that way, and you also seem to be saying that all 'liberals' think in exactly the same way.

I don't think you can put people in a box like that, cos someone who has a 'liberal' take on education, might have the opposite take on immigration or gay marriage.

So can you tell me what exactly makes a person a 'liberal' in your eyes?

I'm not trying to argue against you, I just want to know how you think about this. :smiley:

Mac-7
05-04-2015, 03:08 AM
I see this word liberals on forums in the US all the time, and everyone is supposed to know exactly what it means. I don't, so can you tell me exactly who you mean when you say 'the liberals'.

I Googled 'liberal' and I got stuff like this.



None of that seems bad to me, but I don't think you are using 'liberal' in that way, and you also seem to be saying that all 'liberals' think in exactly the same way.

I don't think you can put people in a box like that, cos someone who has a 'liberal' take on education, might have the opposite take on immigration or gay marriage.

So can you tell me what exactly makes a person a 'liberal' in your eyes?

I'm not trying to argue against you, I just want to know how you think about this. :smiley:

Your definition was obviously written by a lefty with nothing but love in their heart for liberals.

I consider libs of the liberal persuasion to be very intolerant.

In our universities for instance where liberals dominate conservative speakers and conservative ideas are often banned from the conversation.

So I see liberals to be intolerant not tolerant.

Thats just one example of how liberals do not see themselves the others see them.

midcan5
05-04-2015, 05:55 AM
If some didn't throw stones they'd have nothing at all to do as they surely accomplish nothing else. The thread OP is partisan gobbledygook. Once again some hidden agenda manages the world, unseen from anyone's eyes, except the author. What crap, you'd think this sort of baloney would go away. But I did take a minute to see FDR's inaugural address, when you consider the times, and what he accomplished given the failure of Harding Coolidge and Hoover, you gotta marvel.


"I am certain that my fellow Americans expect that on my induction into the Presidency I will address them with a candor and a decision which the present situation of our people impel. This is preeminently the time to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Nor need we shrink from honestly facing conditions in our country today. This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. I am convinced that you will again give that support to leadership in these critical days.

In such a spirit on my part and on yours we face our common difficulties. They concern, thank God, only material things. Values have shrunken to fantastic levels; taxes have risen; our ability to pay has fallen; government of all kinds is faced by serious curtailment of income; the means of exchange are frozen in the currents of trade; the withered leaves of industrial enterprise lie on every side; farmers find no markets for their produce; the savings of many years in thousands of families are gone.

More important, a host of unemployed citizens face the grim problem of existence, and an equally great number toil with little return. Only a foolish optimist can deny the dark realities of the moment."

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5057/



"Conservatives thrive on a world filled with mysterious evil and unfathomable hatreds, where good is always on the defensive and time is a precious commodity in the cosmic race against corruption and decline." Corey Robin 'The Reactionary Mind'

Mac-7
05-04-2015, 06:50 AM
"Conservatives thrive on a world filled with mysterious evil and unfathomable hatreds, where good is always on the defensive and time is a precious commodity in the cosmic race against corruption and decline." Corey Robin 'The Reactionary Mind'

Don't you just hate people like that?

Most liberals do.

William
05-04-2015, 07:13 AM
Your definition was obviously written by a lefty with nothing but love in their heart for liberals.

I consider libs of the liberal persuasion to be very intolerant.

In our universities for instance where liberals dominate conservative speakers and conservative ideas are often banned from the conversation.

So I see liberals to be intolerant not tolerant.

Thats just one example of how liberals do not see themselves the others see them.

No, that definition was taken from an edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. It is also about the adjective liberal, and what it means in plain English (only in the USA is liberal used for left wing or socialist). Sir Winston Churchill was an old aristocrat and conservative, but he was also a liberal, and the Liberal Party is the name of the Conservative party in Australia. Liberal is not a political word, it describes a kind of philosophy which is very tolerant of different views. My parents are conservatives, but they are happy to discuss ideas which are different from their own - so they are liberal.

And I don't think any of us see ourselves exactly how others see us. :smiley:

Mac-7
05-04-2015, 07:18 AM
No, that definition was taken from an edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. It is also about the adjective liberal, and what it means in plain English (only in the USA is liberal used for left wing or socialist). Sir Winston Churchill was an old aristocrat and conservative, but he was also a liberal, and the Liberal Party is the name of the Conservative party in Australia. Liberal is not a political word, it describes a kind of philosophy which is very tolerant of different views. My parents are conservatives, but they are happy to discuss ideas which are different from their own - so they are liberal.

And I don't think any of us see ourselves exactly how others see us. :smiley:

I don't care what a liberal is in Australia.

In America lefties cringe when they are called liberal because the public has such a negative reaction to the word.

PolWatch
05-04-2015, 07:22 AM
:rollseyes:

Cigar
05-04-2015, 07:24 AM
:rollseyes:

I think they need a Hug ... things haven't been going "their" way lately :laugh: