When did Redemption become a conservative core principle ?

[exotix]

Today


Comeback ~ Paul Ryans War on Poverty

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/ryan--we-have-a-problem-with-economic-mobility-444621379544

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/03/paul_ryan_releases_his_documentary_comeback_now_he _should_host_a_poverty.html


On Tuesday the conservative news site OpportunityLives.com released Comeback (http://opportunitylives.com/editors-note-introducing-comeback-coming-soon-at-opportunity-lives/), a seven-part documentary about stories of redemption, inspired by Rep. Paul Ryan’s travels to poverty-stricken communities since the 2012 campaign.


'Can you be a conservative and claim you care about the poor ?'

~ Question posed to Paul Ryan this morning on The Morning Joe


http://i62.tinypic.com/2md3o1j.png

[Captain Obvious]

The difference between establishment liberal positions on poverty and conservatives is that conservatives want to empower the underprivileged to earn, learn, produce for themselves. Liberals want to enable them by making them dependent on the establishment.

[del]

lol

conservatives like ryan want to suck the govt tit forever, but don't want any of those nasty poor people getting any help

what a load of shit

[exotix]

The difference between establishment liberal positions on poverty and conservatives is that conservatives want to empower the underprivileged to earn, learn, produce for themselves. Liberals want to enable them by making them dependent on the establishment.
Back during the First Great Depression .. Hoover conservatives called this 'patriotic rugged individualism' ... this was paranoid delusion code for austerity (the govt. is not here to help you) as their remedy instead of the New Deal which would remove them from office.

[Captain Obvious]

lol

conservatives like ryan want to suck the govt tit forever, but don't want any of those nasty poor people getting any help

what a load of shit

Ryan's a fraud.

[PattyHill]

The difference between establishment liberal positions on poverty and conservatives is that conservatives want to empower the underprivileged to earn, learn, produce for themselves. Liberals want to enable them by making them dependent on the establishment.


And how do you propose to empower the underprivileged?

[Captain Obvious]

And how do you propose to empower the underprivileged?

Provide training (skill) and educational opportunities for them.

Instead of subsidizing them through increases in the minimum wage and entitlement programs to do nothing.

[PattyHill]

Provide training (skill) and educational opportunities for them.

Instead of subsidizing them through increases in the minimum wage and entitlement programs to do nothing.

So you're onboard with free community college?

And how are they going to eat while they go through the training classes?

[Captain Obvious]

So you're onboard with free community college?

I'm on board with making it easier, not necessarily free, for people to EARN a degree and/or training certification. We have "free" educational opportunities now for certain classes and that system in large part fails, people need to have an investment in the process otherwise they'll piss it away.


And how are they going to eat while they go through the training classes?

Same way I did when I put myself through college, grad school and raised a family, get a job and work for it.

[PattyHill]

I'm on board with making it easier, not necessarily free, for people to EARN a degree and/or training certification. We have "free" educational opportunities now for certain classes and that system in large part fails, people need to have an investment in the process otherwise they'll piss it away.



Same way I did when I put myself through college, grad school and raised a family, get a job and work for it.


So if they get a job, it will be easier to work their way through if minimum wage is increased.

College is a LOT pricier now than it was when I went thru it in the 80s.

And if we don't raise minimum wage, food stamps will help them eat while they are working and going to school. Even raising it, food stamps will help for those who can't find enough work because -you know, they need skills, which is why they are at school, to get jobs.

It's not an either/or proposition. Repubs and Dems working together could put together a package of support and incentives and improvements that would help people get ahead.

Or we can just piss on each other's ideas.

[domer76]

The difference between establishment liberal positions on poverty and conservatives is that conservatives want to empower the underprivileged to earn, learn, produce for themselves. Liberals want to enable them by making them dependent on the establishment.
A good way to start would be for conservatives to step up to the plate and begin building infrastructure in inner city schools to make them institutions conducive to learning. Places like Baltimore spend untold millions on waterfront improvement, yet their schools languish. It happens all over the country. Our public education ranks in the middle of the pack when it's compared to the rest of the world. Remove inner city schools from that equation and we rank as about the best. What does that tell you?

Education is the path out of poverty, yet we practice educational apartheid in this country and perpetuate the problem.

[Captain Obvious]

So if they get a job, it will be easier to work their way through if minimum wage is increased.

College is a LOT pricier now than it was when I went thru it in the 80s.

And if we don't raise minimum wage, food stamps will help them eat while they are working and going to school. Even raising it, food stamps will help for those who can't find enough work because -you know, they need skills, which is why they are at school, to get jobs.

It's not an either/or proposition. Repubs and Dems working together could put together a package of support and incentives and improvements that would help people get ahead.

Or we can just piss on each other's ideas.

I really don't care how it's done but my two criteria are: A) You can't give it to them, they need an ownership stake otherwise it's going to fail. B) You can't give it to them because fuck that. So guys like me who bust our asses and make something of ourselves now have to carry the loads for these underachievers?

At the end of the day people need to produce and stop consuming (taxpayer resources).

[Captain Obvious]

A good way to start would be for conservatives to step up to the plate and begin building infrastructure in inner city schools to make them institutions conducive to learning. Places like Baltimore spend untold millions on waterfront improvement, yet their schools languish. It happens all over the country. Our public education ranks in the middle of the pack when it's compared to the rest of the world. Remove inner city schools from that equation and we rank as about the best. What does that tell you?

Education is the path out of poverty, yet we practice educational apartheid in this country and perpetuate the problem.

I agree with that.

First step - get "progress" out of our schools, it's the by far largest factor to failure.

[PattyHill]

I agree with that.

First step - get "progress" out of our schools, it's the by far largest factor to failure.

I can make some guesses what you mean by "progress" but let's not go down that road.

I do agree we experiment too much with our public schools. We keep trying to improve them, but they end up getting jerked right and left and up and down and it's very hard to teach in that kind of environment.

We need to make sure our teacher training programs are rigorous; we need to pay teachers well; and we need to give them the tools to teach - enough books, enough supplies, computers, schools where the infrastructure is good (heating, cooling, no unsafe roofs, floors, etc), and classes that aren't too big.

It's going to take money. And money that isn't wasted in "boondoggles" or by going to construction companies that waste it.

In terms of curriculum - reading, writing, 'rithmetic to start. But some of the integrated learning that goes on these days promote those skills.

But we also need the kids to come to class ready to learn. That means making sure they have a good breakfast, even if we give them a free one before school starts. A good lunch. That they have the tools they need - paper, pencils, pens, books. That they are healthy - whatever happened to school nurses?

It is so important to get the K thru 12 schools working for all kids, not just those who live in more middle class or affluent areas. My town's schools are pretty darned good, but we're a small community with a lot of involvement. We have challenges - mainly transportation - it's a large county, and it's hard for parents to get their kids to and from school, and the bus system isn't great. But once they get to school, they learn well, and our drop out rate is low.

Every kid everywhere deserves that kind of school

[PattyHill]

sorry about that long entry. I'm on a very boring company webinar.

[Captain Obvious]

I can make some guesses what you mean by "progress" but let's not go down that road.

I do agree we experiment too much with our public schools. We keep trying to improve them, but they end up getting jerked right and left and up and down and it's very hard to teach in that kind of environment.

We need to make sure our teacher training programs are rigorous; we need to pay teachers well; and we need to give them the tools to teach - enough books, enough supplies, computers, schools where the infrastructure is good (heating, cooling, no unsafe roofs, floors, etc), and classes that aren't too big.

It's going to take money. And money that isn't wasted in "boondoggles" or by going to construction companies that waste it.

In terms of curriculum - reading, writing, 'rithmetic to start. But some of the integrated learning that goes on these days promote those skills.

But we also need the kids to come to class ready to learn. That means making sure they have a good breakfast, even if we give them a free one before school starts. A good lunch. That they have the tools they need - paper, pencils, pens, books. That they are healthy - whatever happened to school nurses?

It is so important to get the K thru 12 schools working for all kids, not just those who live in more middle class or affluent areas. My town's schools are pretty darned good, but we're a small community with a lot of involvement. We have challenges - mainly transportation - it's a large county, and it's hard for parents to get their kids to and from school, and the bus system isn't great. But once they get to school, they learn well, and our drop out rate is low.

Every kid everywhere deserves that kind of school

We pay too much attention to kids today also, they need to learn shit on their own without being spoonfed through their middle ages.

This is what I mean by "progress", the biggest problem with out education system is not the system itself but the society it's embedded in. Society doesn't want to learn for a number of reasons, constant coddling our children is one of them.

[Captain Obvious]

sorry about that long entry. I'm on a very boring company webinar.

Ask them for an electronic copy of it, that's what I do.

Instead of sitting there for an hour listening to some derp drone on and on.

[PattyHill]

Ask them for an electronic copy of it, that's what I do.

Instead of sitting there for an hour listening to some derp drone on and on.


yeah. but there are some "politically correct" reasons to at least look like I'm on it

[Bo-4]

I saw that. Funny how Republicans are attempting to co-op the Dem's message on a host of issues. "We need to help people out of poverty" says Ryan?

What utter BS.. he offers NOTHING in the way of specifics except ending welfare, closing schools, and killing entitlements and jobs programs in the inner city.

Word salad gobble-de-goup. And nobody with a brain is gonna fall for it.

[exotix]

I saw that. Funny how Republicans are attempting to co-op the Dem's message on a host of issues. "We need to help people out of poverty" says Ryan?

What utter BS.. he offers NOTHING in the way of specifics except ending welfare, closing schools, and killing entitlements and jobs programs in the inner city.

Word salad gobble-de-goup. And nobody with a brain is gonna fall for it.Absolute shamelessness should've been the title.

[Captain Obvious]

I saw that. Funny how Republicans are attempting to co-op the Dem's message on a host of issues. "We need to help people out of poverty" says Ryan?

What utter BS.. he offers NOTHING in the way of specifics except ending welfare, closing schools, and killing entitlements and jobs programs in the inner city.

Word salad gobble-de-goup. And nobody with a brain is gonna fall for it.

In large part that's how it's done.

As long as you stick a tit in the face of the underprivileged, they'll suck on it.

[PattyHill]

In large part that's how it's done.

As long as you stick a tit in the face of the underprivileged, they'll suck on it.

Um, no... if you end welfare, close schools, and kill entitlements and jobs programs - you will end up increasing property crimes.

You need to have something else to offer, and a hearty "get your butt off your chair" doesn't do it.

[Captain Obvious]

Um, no... if you end welfare, close schools, and kill entitlements and jobs programs - you will end up increasing property crimes.

You need to have something else to offer, and a hearty "get your butt off your chair" doesn't do it.

Everybody's so extreme.

I never said end these programs, just reel them in a bit. Take care of the ones that need to be taken care of, get the deadbeats off the system.

Life's tough, for all of us. That doesn't mean it's fair to make the 110%ers like me pay for the 75%ers.

[PattyHill]

Everybody's so extreme.

I never said end these programs, just reel them in a bit. Take care of the ones that need to be taken care of, get the deadbeats off the system.

Life's tough, for all of us. That doesn't mean it's fair to make the 110%ers like me pay for the 75%ers.


So in general, I don't disagree - take care of those who need it, get the deadbeats off - even if we don't agree who is in those groups. But when we imprison so many young, poor men - and then we won't hire them after they are released - we have a lot of systemic issues to fix.

First thing is, we need to get public schools going better in low income areas. We need to get kids on the "right" track.

It's a long term project; there won't be fast results. But it is one place to start.

And then we need to look at the so-called justice system. I read about a DA in Milwaukee who is doing great on that, even in Walker's Wisconsin.

whoops, got a work call! Those would be two good places to start.