To the interventionist, imperialist and just plain war hawks among you

[donttread]

How can you look at the ME in the 60's and 70's with modern cities, female doctors and lawyers and normal fashion styles , with the ability of those governments to by and large control factions within them ,compare that to today and still justify interventionism in the face of almost undisputed proof that it has only made things worse. I'm not talking theory here or some sort of baseless assertion that without us stirring the shit stick we'd be in the throws of some mythical WW 3. I'm talking about real world evidence where the ME is better off following our "interventions.

[The Xl]

This should be obvious

[donttread]

Because obviuosly they have no evidence to suoort interventionism?

[GRUMPY]

How can you look at the ME in the 60's and 70's with modern cities, female doctors and lawyers and normal fashion styles , with the ability of those governments to by and large control factions within them ,compare that to today and still justify interventionism in the face of almost undisputed proof that it has only made things worse. I'm not talking theory here or some sort of baseless assertion that without us stirring the $#@! stick we'd be in the throws of some mythical WW 3. I'm talking about real world evidence where the ME is better off following our "interventions.

have you considered adjusting your medications....

[Peter1469]

The current problems were caused by Sykes Picot- about 50 years prior to what you are complaining about.

[Mac-7]

The current problems were caused by Sykes Picot- about 50 years prior to what you are complaining about.

Wrong.

Try 600 ad when a hustler named Mohammed came on the scene.

[Peter1469]

Wrong.

Try 600 ad when a hustler named Mohammed came on the scene.

neg

[Mac-7]

neg

I didn't think you would understand

[Hal Jordan]

Wrong.

Try 600 ad when a hustler named Mohammed came on the scene.

Because the Middle East was a bastion of peace before that...

[Chris]

US intervention goes back to the Red Line Agreement, 1928.

[Peter1469]

I didn't think you would understand
We are talking about the roots of their modern problems with the West.

[Mac-7]

We are talking about the roots of their modern problems with the West.

Islam has had a problem with the world since the brand was founded by Mohammed.

Its a violent religion that has spread itself primarily by force.

[donttread]

have you considered adjusting your medications....

Well thought out deflective non answer. Which I'll take as proof of my point. You interventionist have no proof to support our interventions because they have failed miserably.

[donttread]

The current problems were caused by Sykes Picot- about 50 years prior to what you are complaining about.

Time to stop blaming our parents Peter and take responsibilty for our own actions as a nation. Sykes didn't play war games with Russia in Afghanistan just for kicks and Picot didn't screw around with Iranian internal affairs in 79. Neither of them invaded Iraq

[donttread]

Not a single bit of empirical support for interventionism on this thread. Why? Because there is none

[Mac-7]

Not a single bit of empirical support for interventionism on this thread. Why? Because there is none

Even if we withdrew entirely from all Muslim countries they would still come here.

So you can't run away from the problem even if you want to.

[Peter1469]

Islam has had a problem with the world since the brand was founded by Mohammed.

Its a violent religion that has spread itself primarily by force.

In general, I agree. I am focusing on the modern era and the West's partitioning of the Ottoman Empire into States that had no relationship to the people inside the new borders- and yes, that was done intentionally.

[Peter1469]

Time to stop blaming our parents Peter and take responsibilty for our own actions as a nation. Sykes didn't play war games with Russia in Afghanistan just for kicks and Picot didn't screw around with Iranian internal affairs in 79. Neither of them invaded Iraq

I will refer you to post #17.

[Peter1469]

Not a single bit of empirical support for interventionism on this thread. Why? Because there is none

We were operating under the geopolitical realities of the Cold War. We might have been able to do some things differently, buy isolationism was not in the cards. Sorry, your position is pollyannish.

[The Sage of Main Street]

How can you look at the ME in the 60's and 70's with modern cities, female doctors and lawyers and normal fashion styles , with the ability of those governments to by and large control factions within them ,compare that to today and still justify interventionism in the face of almost undisputed proof that it has only made things worse? I'm not talking theory here or some sort of baseless assertion that without us stirring the $#@! stick we'd be in the throes of some mythical WW 3. I'm talking about real world evidence where the ME is better off following our "interventions." It is easy to make two opposite conclusions from the same set of facts. The incredible bonanza from OPEC price-gouging starting in 1973 finally enabled the Moslems to fulfill their true nature as bloodthirsty desert bandits hyped-up by a religious mission. Intervention was a necessary reaction to that expanding threat; it didn't cause it.

[donttread]

Even if we withdrew entirely from all Muslim countries they would still come here.

So you can't run away from the problem even if you want to.

Do you understand what empirical evidence is?

[Chris]

Do you understand what empirical evidence is?

Evidence of empire? :-P

[Hal Jordan]

Evidence of empire? :-P

Well, I haven't seen any Jedi around, so would that be evidence that the Empire did kill them all?

[Bob]

How can you look at the ME in the 60's and 70's with modern cities, female doctors and lawyers and normal fashion styles , with the ability of those governments to by and large control factions within them ,compare that to today and still justify interventionism in the face of almost undisputed proof that it has only made things worse. I'm not talking theory here or some sort of baseless assertion that without us stirring the shit stick we'd be in the throws of some mythical WW 3. I'm talking about real world evidence where the ME is better off following our "interventions.

My hunch is you draw the wrong lessons from history.

[The Xl]

Even if we withdrew entirely from all Muslim countries they would still come here.

So you can't run away from the problem even if you want to.
That is completely untrue

[Bob]

In general, I agree. I am focusing on the modern era and the West's partitioning of the Ottoman Empire into States that had no relationship to the people inside the new borders- and yes, that was done intentionally.

Democrats are super fond of diversity. Guess it really doesn't work in the real world.

Even done in the USA the results have led to open riots, looting and complete breakdown in law.

[Bob]

Well thought out deflective non answer. Which I'll take as proof of my point. You interventionist have no proof to support our interventions because they have failed miserably.

I would say that what happened in the ME by those there has not worked. They live with enormous violence of their own making.

[donttread]

My hunch is you draw the wrong lessons from history.

Empirical evidence is essentially scientific research .Clearly science has nothing to do with our actions around the world

[Mac-7]

Do you understand what empirical evidence is?

I understand you don't have any.

[Mac-7]

That is completely untrue

You are fooling yourself if you think radical islam will not keep pushing till it destroys us or we destroy it.

[Captain Obvious]

You are fooling yourself if you think radical islam will not keep pushing till it destroys us or we destroy it.

RWNJ radio teaches fear well.

Radical Islam will never be more than the viper that bits the heels.

[Chris]

Well, I haven't seen any Jedi around, so would that be evidence that the Empire did kill them all?

:D

The US Empire. At least since the Red Line Agreement of 1928.

[Bob]

Empirical evidence is essentially scientific research .Clearly science has nothing to do with our actions around the world

True. What does that have to do with the ME constantly at war with each other?

[Tahuyaman]

My hunch is you draw the wrong lessons from history.

no, he draws the wrong conclusions from the lessons history teaches.

[Tahuyaman]

Do you understand what empirical evidence is?


When a liberal talks about " empirical evidence" they are usually referring to things which are completely unprovable and left up to a variety of interpretations depending on your point of view.

[Peter1469]

Democrats are super fond of diversity. Guess it really doesn't work in the real world.

Even done in the USA the results have led to open riots, looting and complete breakdown in law.

Great. I was talking about the causes of the modern problems in the part of the world known as the Ottoman Empire.

BTW, diversity works well in the Ottoman Empire on a macro level. They let people live with their own and self rule so long as they paid taxes and didn't talk crap about the Caliph.

[Peter1469]

You are fooling yourself if you think radical islam will not keep pushing till it destroys us or we destroy it.

Radical Islam has the desire to "destroy" us. They do not have the ability to do it. It is incomprehensibly idiotic to believe that they could. Sub-retarded.

[Bob]

Great. I was talking about the causes of the modern problems in the part of the world known as the Ottoman Empire.

BTW, diversity works well in the Ottoman Empire on a macro level. They let people live with their own and self rule so long as they paid taxes and didn't talk crap about the Caliph.

Carry on.

For what, one to two more posts? Best of luck.

[Peter1469]

Carry on.

For what, one to two more posts? Best of luck.

You can always start a thread about what you wanted to talk about.

[Bob]

You can always start a thread about what you wanted to talk about.

I finished.

[donttread]

True. What does that have to do with the ME constantly at war with each other?

Because that bis partly our doing

[Bob]

Because that bis partly our doing

You give yourself far too much credit.

[GRUMPY]

Well thought out deflective non answer. Which I'll take as proof of my point. You interventionist have no proof to support our interventions because they have failed miserably.

the fact that you would interpret someone questioning your mental competence as proof of your point is proof that you need to pay more attention to your meds....seek help son...

[Mac-7]

RWNJ radio teaches fear well.

Radical Islam will never be more than the viper that bits the heels.

You can't taunt me.

Morons like you laughed at Churchill too when he tried to warn the world about hitler.

On the one hand libs keep telling us islams are 1.3 billion strong but the other hand you call them nothing but fang less vipers.

The fact is you don't care which and just want to bury your head in the sand and hope the threat goes away,

[Ivan88]

The war crazies and related psychopaths can't answer your position, donttread. All they can do is call you crazy.
BTW,
psychopath comes from Greek words for self and emotion/feelings and such.
So, the war crazies base their position on feelings and emotions, just like some dingbat female.
Which is a major part of their inability to make an intelligent argument in favor of their legalized murder lusts.

[Tahuyaman]

Democrats are super fond of diversity.


Only as it applies to race and culture. Diversity of opinion and ideas? They put no value in that.

[Bob]

Only as it applies to race and culture. Diversity of opinion and ideas? They put no value in that.

Yes indeed.

[Chris]

the fact that you would interpret someone questioning your mental competence as proof of your point is proof that you need to pay more attention to your meds....seek help son...

The fact you think ad hom logical is telling, pops.

[GRUMPY]

Only as it applies to race and culture. Diversity of opinion and ideas? They put no value in that.

the dem elites are fond of race and cultural diversity only to the extent that it can be used to manipulate the masses....

[GRUMPY]

The fact you think ad hom logical is telling, pops.

son, somebody has to tell you because you are rather clueless.....again listen and learn from your betters son....

[Captain Obvious]

son, somebody has to tell you because you are rather clueless.....again listen and learn from your betters son....

Excessive use of condescending term, 10 yard penalty, repeat the down

[Peter1469]

Excessive use of condescending term, 10 yard penalty, repeat the down

Pops has control issues. Probably sexually abused as a child. :shocked: