Maine Forced Welfare Recipients To Work For Their Benefits

[Peter1469]

What happened when Maine forced welfare recipients to work for benefits? (http://www.usherald.com/maine-welfare-recipients-must-work-for-their-benefits/)

First I ever heard of this experiment. Check out the link to find out.


Last year Maine passed a measure that would require recipients of the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, otherwise known as SNAP, to complete a certain number of work, volunteer, or job-training hours before being eligible for assistance.


Main Governor Paul LaPage passed the measure last year and the resulting drop in food-stamp enrollees has been dramatic.


At the close of 2014 approximately 12,000 individuals were enrolled in the state assistance program. Keep in mind that these individuals are adults who aren’t disabled and who don’t have children at home and who are claiming the food-stamp benefits because of a lack of financial resources.


After forcing these individuals to either work part-time for twenty hours each week, enroll in a vocational program, or volunteer for a minimum of twenty-four hours per month, the numbers showed a significant drop from 12,000 enrollees to just over 2,500.

'

Looks like it worked pretty well.

[PolWatch]

It was a good idea in 1996 and its still a good idea...at least before it was gutted by every administration since and most of the states.

'The 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act (PRWOR) (PL 104-193), also known as the 1996 Welfare Reform Act, was signed in to law on August 22, 1996, by President Bill Clinton (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Bill_Clinton). The Act is described by the U.S. Government as "a comprehensive bipartisan welfare reform plan that will dramatically change the nation's welfare system into one that requires work in exchange for time-limited assistance. The law contains strong work requirements, a performance bonus to reward states for moving welfare recipients into jobs, state maintenance of effort requirements, comprehensive child support enforcement, and supports for families moving from welfare to work -- including increased funding for child care and guaranteed medical coverage'
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=1996_Personal_Responsibility_and_W ork_Opportunity_Reconciliation_Act

[zelmo1234]

Well I for one have been saying the workfare is the way to go? But there are those that think that is cruel and unusual punishment.

[TrueBlue]

Now if only Maine's law would equally apply to those rich, wealthy people who receive big tax cuts from the government that they would first have to actually do some type of work to offset the cost of government giving them their tax cuts other than just claiming their wealthy state; do some community service to help the less fortunate; and have to enroll in a vocational program (less they think they're too good/proud to do that) it might just be a workable plan with parity! But I'm not going to hold my breath on that.

[del]

oh, please

hold your breath

[zelmo1234]

Now if only Maine's law would equally apply to those rich, wealthy people who receive big tax cuts from the government that they would first have to actually do some type of work to offset the cost of government giving them their tax cuts other than just claiming their wealthy state; do some community service to help the less fortunate; and have to enroll in a vocational program (less they think they're too good/proud to do that) it might just be a workable plan with parity! But I'm not going to hold my breath on that.

Do you have an example of one of the rich people in Maine that are doing nothing? If they are all doing nothing one example should be easy to come up with.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Now if only Maine's law would equally apply to those rich, wealthy people who receive big tax cuts from the government that they would first have to actually do some type of work to offset the cost of government giving them their tax cuts other than just claiming their wealthy state; do some community service to help the less fortunate; and have to enroll in a vocational program (less they think they're too good/proud to do that) it might just be a workable plan with parity! But I'm not going to hold my breath on that.

Why is your government giving tax cuts? Could it be that incompetent Liberals are wrong and government regulations and coercion is not the way to go?

Freedom is a much better answer.

[GrassrootsConservative]

But I know my absolutely seamless logic won't make a difference.

/Edit: Can't blame a guy for trying.

[Tahuyaman]

First I ever heard of this experiment. Check out the link to find out.

'

Looks like it worked pretty well.

until some activist judge somewhere rules that you can't do that.

[Peter1469]

oh, please

hold your breath

Beat me to it.

[donttread]

First I ever heard of this experiment. Check out the link to find out.

'

Looks like it worked pretty well.

I'd like to see it run more as a Public Assistance program as most SNAP recipiants work, which probably accounts for the small sample size ( I would imagine those working were exempt) Tremendous success, hopefully some of those 9,500 got jobs because of the skills they learned and contacts they made in the program

[zelmo1234]

Like it or not the truth is that if you offer to pay some people for doing nothing, they will do just that.

It to some is human nature. I have a friend I have known since High School and he has never met a lay-off that he did not like, even though he has much more time in, If the fishing is good or it is hunting season he will take the lay off.

Now this is certainly his right and he does pay into the unemployment system. but now as myself and others are aging and taking more hunting and fishing trips, he often lacks the money. At first I paid his way, but now that is getting old. Why should I reward the fact that he has taken the time to hunt and fish for the past 30 years.

Welfare is a lot the same, if you let people exist and do nothing, they will, but if they are forced to work anyway they will take a job where they can make more than their welfare benefits. again Human Nature.

Unfortunately the Left does not have a great voting base among the working, It is much easier to scare those that are totally dependent on the Government into voting for more free stuff. So Democrats in general see fewer people on welfare as a bad thing.

That is why you get stupid statements like Welfare and unemployment stimulate the economy from them.

[Common]

I think its a good idea for able bodied welfare recipeints to provide some work for their benefit. But theres a but. How much state welfare do they recieve and how many hours do they have to work for it.

As long as the two numbers do not go below the states minimum wage im fine with it.

[maineman]

Do you have an example of one of the rich people in Maine that are doing nothing? If they are all doing nothing one example should be easy to come up with.

Bar Harbor is filled with them.... Rockefeller's are still there.... some Roosevelt's too, I think. Lots of old money in Bar Harbor Maine. The very wealthy who live there do nothing personally to stay wealthy.... their money does all that for them.

[Peter1469]

I'd like to see it run more as a Public Assistance program as most SNAP recipiants work, which probably accounts for the small sample size ( I would imagine those working were exempt) Tremendous success, hopefully some of those 9,500 got jobs because of the skills they learned and contacts they made in the program

Yes, it seems that only unemployed childless adults were included. A reasonable first step.

[Peter1469]

Bar Harbor is filled with them.... Rockefeller's are still there.... some Roosevelt's too, I think. Lots of old money in Bar Harbor Maine. The very wealthy who live there do nothing personally to stay wealthy.... their money does all that for them.

Did the State exempt them from property taxes and sales taxes when they spend their multiple millions?

Heck, the State should just seize all of that money and redistribute it to the people.

[Chris]

Bar Harbor is filled with them.... Rockefeller's are still there.... some Roosevelt's too, I think. Lots of old money in Bar Harbor Maine. The very wealthy who live there do nothing personally to stay wealthy.... their money does all that for them.

So their money works. I mean, hell, it does no one any good if it just sits, but spend or saved or invested, in contributing to the economy it does everyone some good.

[PattyHill]

I think its a good idea for able bodied welfare recipeints to provide some work for their benefit. But theres a but. How much state welfare do they recieve and how many hours do they have to work for it.

As long as the two numbers do not go below the states minimum wage im fine with it.

Exactly. 20 hours a week; that's 80 hours a month.

1 person in a household gets $194 a month in SNAP money - maximum.

Minimum wage in Maine is $7.50 an hour. Times 80 hours a month - that's $600. So they are supposed to put in $600 of their time for $194 in food benefits? That makes no sense. Now maybe that 20 hours a week of part-time work is actual work - at that point, they're probably making too much for SNAP anyway. And if they could find a part-time job, wouldn't they? where is this work going to come from?

So if they can't find a job, they can volunteer - ok, well, even if they volunteered for 24 hours a month - That's $180 at minimum wage, almost as much as the SNAP benefit. And that's time away from looking for work. They have to find a place to volunteer with. They have to travel there and back.

And entering a votech program - that's great if it's free or they can afford it. But maybe they are between jobs but don't want to switch careers. Why would they do votech training then?

My step-daughter was on food stamps for a couple months between jobs. It helped her out. She was actively looking for work the whole time. Forcing her to volunteer or to go to a training program wouldn't have helped her look for work.

Pretty stupid overall.

[Mac-7]

Well I for one have been saying the workfare is the way to go? But there are those that think that is cruel and unusual punishment.

Imagine what the bleeding hearts think of my idea to just abolish the program entirely.

[Peter1469]

Imagine what the bleeding hearts think of my idea to just abolish the program entirely.

I doubt that very many conservatives would openly support that plan.

[Cigar]

I doubt that very many conservatives would openly support that plan.

Especially knowing who is really on Welfare :laugh:

[maineman]

Did the State exempt them from property taxes and sales taxes when they spend their multiple millions?

Heck, the State should just seize all of that money and redistribute it to the people.

they pay huge property tax bills, no doubt. But, if you have to even ask what the property taxes are on a Bar Harbor ocean view estate, you really can't afford it and aren't the sort of people who would fit in in that community anyway.

[Peter1469]

they pay huge property tax bills, no doubt. But, if you have to even ask what the property taxes are on a Bar Harbor ocean view estate, you really can't afford it and aren't the sort of people who would fit in in that community anyway.

There are tricks to help with that. Large rich families can put ownership of the property into lots of people- so the title is not a fee-simple. That drastically lowers the value, because no person is likely going to buy one owner's small share of the property.

Of course, that plan can back fire if the family stops getting along. It can be impossible to sell the property.

[Mac-7]

I doubt that very many conservatives would openly support that plan.

Do you mean conservative republicans who have been in Washington loner than 6 years?

Probably not since many of them have gone native by that time

[donttread]

How about a similar program for corporate welfare?

[zelmo1234]

Bar Harbor is filled with them.... Rockefeller's are still there.... some Roosevelt's too, I think. Lots of old money in Bar Harbor Maine. The very wealthy who live there do nothing personally to stay wealthy.... their money does all that for them.

Actually the Rockefeller family is quite active in politics and most of them work for the foundation that gives away money to the causes that they choose to promote. They are likely the most generous family in the history of the world.

[zelmo1234]

How about a similar program for corporate welfare?

I think that here we can agree that it could be ended. Why not? You either sink or swim on your own merit

[Peter1469]

Do you mean conservative republicans who have been in Washington loner than 6 years?

Probably not since many of them have gone native by that time

I have heard no serious politician say end welfare.

I don't think that a sane politician would say that.

[Mac-7]

I have heard no serious politician say end welfare.

I don't think that a sane politician would say that.

That does not mean its a bad idea just because corrupt, spineless and self serving politicians refuse to do it.

[Peter1469]

That does not mean its a bad idea just because corrupt, spineless and self serving politicians refuse to do it.

Ah, yes.... :shocked:

[maineman]

Actually the Rockefeller family is quite active in politics and most of them work for the foundation that gives away money to the causes that they choose to promote. They are likely the most generous family in the history of the world.

that's hard work. giving away money. phew. I get tired just thinking about it.

[zelmo1234]

that's hard work. giving away money. phew. I get tired just thinking about it.

Actually you should try it sometime. Especially with the medical research that the family funds. And despite the fact that they have turned into a bunch of liberals, they still make sure that there money is going toward what they donated it for. and are very hands on in managing the investments.

Remember, John D Sr. Made all this money back in the good old days when Democrats will tell you that we had income equality.

[PolWatch]

Good ole Rockefeller....he earned his money the old fashioned way....he was a crook:

One of the founding members of the Rockefeller family was con artist William Rockefeller Sr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Rockefeller_Sr.) born in Granger, New York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granger,_New_York) to a Protestant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism) family with English, German, and Scots-Irish roots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_family

[del]

Actually you should try it sometime. Especially with the medical research that the family funds. And despite the fact that they have turned into a bunch of liberals, they still make sure that there money is going toward what they donated it for. and are very hands on in managing the investments.

Remember, John D Sr. Made all this money back in the good old days when Democrats will tell you that we had income equality.

try not to be a complete hack, hack

[MisterVeritis]

I doubt that very many conservatives would openly support that plan.
I support it. If you want to eat then you will work.

I do not owe you a living.

[MisterVeritis]

How about a similar program for corporate welfare?
To evaluate your idea more details are required. In general I support getting the government out of all welfare.

[Peter1469]

I support it. If you want to eat then you will work.

I do not owe you a living.

I got my upper class living going. Don't need your help.

If a politician says he wants to end welfare, that politician is toast.

People with an IQ above 90 already figured that one out.

[del]

oooooh, upper class.....

impressive

[MisterVeritis]

I got my upper class living going. Don't need your help.

If a politician says he wants to end welfare, that politician is toast.

People with an IQ above 90 already figured that one out.
And the socialists/Marxists among us just go along. Right?

That is what you are doing. You do not give a damn about your country.

I get it.

[Peter1469]

And the socialists/Marxists among us just go along. Right?

That is what you are doing. You do not give a damn about your country.

I get it.


Clearly you don't get it.

What is a nice way to say it..., you are wrong.

[MisterVeritis]

Clearly you don't get it.

What is a nice way to say it..., you are wrong.
I don't think so.

[Peter1469]

I don't think so.

I agree with that statement 101%. (I get to say 101, because I served in the 101st ABN DIV (Air Assault).

[MisterVeritis]

I agree with that statement 101%. (I get to say 101, because I served in the 101st ABN DIV (Air Assault).
In the obvious context this makes no sense.

I do understand being part of an elite unit. It is cool (especially if you were enlisted at the time).

That part of my life is long behind me. It is still an important part of yours.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Is TrueBlue going to discuss this thread or was he just drive-by posting?

I'd be interested in seeing how he supports a government that he thinks gives money to the rich as some sort of welfare.

[Peter1469]

Is TrueBlue going to discuss this thread or was he just drive-by posting?

I'd be interested in seeing how he supports a government that he thinks gives money to the rich as some sort of welfare.

Foot stomping protestor. Best to ignore. Maybe laugh at.

[Tahuyaman]

Ah, yes.... :shocked:


Sometimes the the simplest answer is the most complete answer.

[Tahuyaman]

Foot stomping protestor. Best to ignore. Maybe laugh at.

You can't laugh at them if you ignore them.

[Tahuyaman]

Holy shit! I'm sitting on the flying bridge of my boat and the moon looks like it's just on the other side of the bay. I've never seen anything like this.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Holy shit! I'm sitting on the flying bridge of my boat and the moon looks like it's just on the other side of the bay. I've never seen anything like this.

Harvest moon.

[Tahuyaman]

Harvest moon.
It's incredible. It's even more dramatic now that it's completely dark.

[Mac-7]

How about a similar program for corporate welfare?

Sure if we define corporate welfare as unearned subsidies from the government.

How do you define welfare?

[zelmo1234]

Good ole Rockefeller....he earned his money the old fashioned way....he was a crook:

One of the founding members of the Rockefeller family was con artist William Rockefeller Sr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Rockefeller_Sr.) born in Granger, New York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granger,_New_York) to a Protestant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism) family with English, German, and Scots-Irish roots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_family

Yep he was a snake oil salesman, but you forgot to tell everyone that he abandon his family and left them penniless forcing John D to go to work to support the family.

And of course, even the government could not prove that Standard Oil ever took anything from anyone. When the broke up the evil monopoly, which was the refining of kerosene at the time. the average price of kerosene went up about 30%

John D was actually one of the best businessmen that ever walked the planet.

[zelmo1234]

try not to be a complete hack, hack

I could try, but if I posted things that your like to here, they would be based in fantasy instead of fact.

So why don't you just tell me what I should think and I will post the facts proving what you believe is a lie!

[PolWatch]

Yep he was a snake oil salesman, but you forgot to tell everyone that he abandon his family and left them penniless forcing John D to go to work to support the family.

And of course, even the government could not prove that Standard Oil ever took anything from anyone. When the broke up the evil monopoly, which was the refining of kerosene at the time. the average price of kerosene went up about 30%

John D was actually one of the best businessmen that ever walked the planet.

There is no denying that John D was an astute businessman. He created a fortune when those with $$$ made their own laws and were allowed to purchase anyone necessary to ignore their actions. That is why he & his fellow Gilded Age businessmen were called the Robber Barons. Might makes right...in their world. Competitors were destroyed by any method necessary.

The Rockefellers are like the Kennedy's....their wealth is rooted in criminal behavior but has evolved into respectability....as long as we don't look at the acquisition of their wealth too closely.

[PattyHill]

Actually you should try it sometime. Especially with the medical research that the family funds. And despite the fact that they have turned into a bunch of liberals, they still make sure that there money is going toward what they donated it for. and are very hands on in managing the investments.

Remember, John D Sr. Made all this money back in the good old days when Democrats will tell you that we had income equality.


There is no denying that John D was an astute businessman. He created a fortune when those with $$$ made their own laws and were allowed to purchase anyone necessary to ignore their actions. That is why he & his fellow Gilded Age businessmen were called the Robber Barons. Might makes right...in their world. Competitors were destroyed by any method necessary.

The Rockefellers are like the Kennedy's....their wealth is rooted in criminal behavior but has evolved into respectability....as long as we don't look at the acquisition of their wealth too closely.


Yeah, and no one would say we had income equality during the days of the robber barons.

[del]

I could try, but if I posted things that your like to here, they would be based in fantasy instead of fact.

So why don't you just tell me what I should think and I will post the facts proving what you believe is a lie!

there is no point in telling you what to think until someone teaches you how to think.

i won't be waiting up nights

[MisterVeritis]

There is no denying that John D was an astute businessman. He created a fortune when those with $$$ made their own laws and were allowed to purchase anyone necessary to ignore their actions. That is why he & his fellow Gilded Age businessmen were called the Robber Barons. Might makes right...in their world. Competitors were destroyed by any method necessary.

The Rockefellers are like the Kennedy's....their wealth is rooted in criminal behavior but has evolved into respectability....as long as we don't look at the acquisition of their wealth too closely.
Have you read anything about the so-called Robber Barons? They created the modern USA which the authoritarian statists have been dismantling ever since.

So give us some facts. Which laws did Rockefeller make? How did he make them? How did he enforce them? How did he judge those who broke them? How did he destroy his competitors?

I will check back in to see how you do.

[MisterVeritis]

Yeah, and no one would say we had income equality during the days of the robber barons.
I suppose you do not recognize that you are a Marxist.

How would income equality work? I am eager to hear it.

[Peter1469]

IMO the "robber barons" were a short term good, because they funded the industrial revolution in the US. But the use of anti-trust laws was also good because it broke up monopolies (after the industrial revolution was running full steam, pun intended) and allowed small businesses into the market.

[MisterVeritis]

IMO the "robber barons" were a short term good, because they funded the industrial revolution in the US. But the use of anti-trust laws was also good because it broke up monopolies (after the industrial revolution was running full steam, pun intended) and allowed small businesses into the market.
Anytime government takes on more power for the greater good watch your wallet and your liberty. Government has created far more monopolies that harm us today than the Robber Barons could have dreamed of.

[Peter1469]

Anytime government takes on more power for the greater good watch your wallet and your liberty. Government has created far more monopolies that harm us today than the Robber Barons could have dreamed of.

Unlikely. Had the monopolies been allowed to persist we would probably be 25 years behind tech wise. Likely more.

[MisterVeritis]

Unlikely. Had the monopolies been allowed to persist we would probably be 25 years behind tech wise. Likely more.
Nonsense. I do not understand why you believe you are elitist conservative. And how can one be a cheerleader for big government that consistently violates the Constitution and still claim to be a Conservative?

[Peter1469]

Nonsense. I do not understand why you believe you are elitist conservative. And how can one be a cheerleader for big government that consistently violates the Constitution and still claim to be a Conservative?

I am not surprised in the least that you don't understand.