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Common
06-19-2015, 06:20 PM
What can you say to this, I hope no one tries to defend this guy and tell me its about freedom and the 2nd amendment

One of the NRA’s top numbskulls responded to the Charleston church massacre by shooting off his mouth — and blaming the victims.

Displaying all the sensitivity of an anvil, Charles Cotton said the slaughter was the fault of Clementa Pinckney, the murdered pastor (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/rev-clementa-pinckney-killed-charleston-church-massacre-article-1.2262261)of the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church who also was a South Carolina state senator.
“Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead,” Cotton declared. “Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue."



http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nra-officals-blames-pastor-charleston-church-shooting-article-1.2263911

PolWatch
06-19-2015, 06:24 PM
'Evolution can be mean, there's no 'dumb ass' vaccine.'

magicmike
06-19-2015, 06:26 PM
Fox has been saying that all day. Per their masters instructions I'm sure.

I'm also sure it'll be defended by some of the nutcases on here too. Wait and see.

Susan B. Anthony
06-19-2015, 06:31 PM
There's a kernel of truth to it, though. If they all had guns it couldn't have turned out much worse.

magicmike
06-19-2015, 06:33 PM
1

Susan B. Anthony
06-19-2015, 06:36 PM
In a gun-free zone and everything.

Captain Obvious
06-19-2015, 06:40 PM
In a gun-free zone and everything.

They should have designated it a double secret probation gun free zone.

Ethereal
06-19-2015, 06:40 PM
Doesn't sound any more ridiculous than blaming the gun or the Confederate flag, which seem to be the primary culprits for some on the "left".

Susan B. Anthony
06-19-2015, 06:43 PM
They should have designated it a double secret probation gun free zone.

It's another infraction against him.

PolWatch
06-19-2015, 06:45 PM
There's plenty of idiocy to go around

Redrose
06-19-2015, 06:49 PM
Blaming the victims is senseless, uncalled for and tactless. He was wrong for saying that, especially at this time.

So please don't twist this to say I'm defending the NRA guy, I'm not.

In the Aurora theater massacre, it was said the death toll may have been much less if it was not a gun free zone and someone had a gun to stop the killer. I do agree with that....to a degree. We need qualified, trained people with a gun, not some half wit who thinks he/she is Marshall Dillon. He could kill innocent people trying to get the gunman, and he risks the chance of someone thinking he is he killer and be shot.

Many local churches in this area have felt the need to have paid armed security at their doors because of some threats received.

Many pastors, like the one in the N.C. massacre, and our Catholic pastor too, are too trusting in the goodness of people, and trust that a tragedy like that will never happen in their church and refuse to arm anyone. It's God's House, all are welcomed. Sadly, bad, evil people do exist as proven by this weeks horror.

We can be trusting and dead, or prepared and alive.

Think about it. If there was a nice big strapping armed guard at the door, do you think that 90 lb. whimp would have opened fire and had the time to reload 5 times? I don't.

All of these assassins chose a place where the chance of retaliation was nil.

Green Arrow
06-19-2015, 06:55 PM
It's a sad day in America, and shows just how far we have fallen, that churches need to even consider hiring armed security for their church.

And I say this as someone who had a very nice, good paying job doing armed security for a church. As nice as the job and the pay was, I would much rather my presence was never necessary.

domer76
06-19-2015, 07:25 PM
Doesn't sound any more ridiculous than blaming the gun or the Confederate flag, which seem to be the primary culprits for some on the "left".

Gun? Were these people tickled to death?

Green Arrow
06-19-2015, 07:30 PM
Gun? Were these people tickled to death?

If they were, would you ban feathers?

MisterVeritis
06-19-2015, 07:46 PM
What can you say to this, I hope no one tries to defend this guy and tell me its about freedom and the 2nd amendment

One of the NRA’s top numbskulls responded to the Charleston church massacre by shooting off his mouth — and blaming the victims.

Displaying all the sensitivity of an anvil, Charles Cotton said the slaughter was the fault of Clementa Pinckney, the murdered pastor (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/rev-clementa-pinckney-killed-charleston-church-massacre-article-1.2262261)of the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church who also was a South Carolina state senator.
“Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead,” Cotton declared. “Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue."



http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nra-officals-blames-pastor-charleston-church-shooting-article-1.2263911
It seems reasonable to me. He was a democrat state senator. Churches are gun free zones, killing fields, for anyone who wants to kill large numbers of people. Cotton is right. Repeal the law and insist that pastors are responsible for the safety of the people who enter their place of business.

MisterVeritis
06-19-2015, 07:49 PM
It's a sad day in America, and shows just how far we have fallen, that churches need to even consider hiring armed security for their church.

And I say this as someone who had a very nice, good paying job doing armed security for a church. As nice as the job and the pay was, I would much rather my presence was never necessary.
It is a place of business open to the public. The state is culpable because state law made that church a state sanctioned killing zone.

zelmo1234
06-19-2015, 07:53 PM
There is no excuse for blaming a victim of the crime for the event. It is the fault of the shooter and the shooter alone.

That being said, if you choose to have your place of worship or business a Gun Free Zone? You are actually posting a sign to these nut jobs that you are an easy target.

Our Church says Lawful Concealed Carry Zone. In MI churches have to post that it is OK or CPL holders are not allowed CCW like I have is only restricted to Some Government buildings.

domer76
06-19-2015, 07:57 PM
If they were, would you ban feathers?

Note to you - they were SHOT to death. You can't blame feathers.

Now, if feathers were responsible for 30,000+ unnecessary deaths every year, perhaps there would be a dialog on what to do about it. That is, unless a bunch of feather-stroking douchebags by the name of the National Feather Association got in the way.

Captain Obvious
06-19-2015, 07:59 PM
^^derp

PolWatch
06-19-2015, 08:00 PM
President of the National Feather Association:
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=JN.iLsAoYCSD5GWEgf4aSiF8Q&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

Bob
06-19-2015, 08:00 PM
What can you say to this, I hope no one tries to defend this guy and tell me its about freedom and the 2nd amendment

One of the NRA’s top numbskulls responded to the Charleston church massacre by shooting off his mouth — and blaming the victims.

Displaying all the sensitivity of an anvil, Charles Cotton said the slaughter was the fault of Clementa Pinckney, the murdered pastor (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/rev-clementa-pinckney-killed-charleston-church-massacre-article-1.2262261)of the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church who also was a South Carolina state senator.
“Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead,” Cotton declared. “Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue."



http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nra-officals-blames-pastor-charleston-church-shooting-article-1.2263911

Some black pastors say they show up armed as they preach. And have guards sitting in the pews. So far, none of their flock has been gunned down.

del
06-19-2015, 08:01 PM
Some black pastors say they show up armed as they preach. And have guards sitting in the pews. So far, none of their flock has been gunned down.

what about sharks?

Captain Obvious
06-19-2015, 08:02 PM
what about sharks?

They're fighting for space in the holy water vessels.

JDubya
06-19-2015, 08:03 PM
If you have to carry a gun in church to feel safe, or if you even WANT to carry a gun in church to defend yourself by shooting somebody to death before they can shoot you to death, you might as well not even bother going to church or having Christian beliefs to begin with, because the very idea of shooting another person no matter what the reason, is completely 100% antithetical to the very tenets of Christianity.

You might as well just go sit in a strip club, worship titties & drink beer because you're really no different than anyone else.

One major aspect of the whole "God & guns" thing the gun nut crowd just doesn't seem to get.

Bob
06-19-2015, 08:05 PM
There is no excuse for blaming a victim of the crime for the event. It is the fault of the shooter and the shooter alone.

That being said, if you choose to have your place of worship or business a Gun Free Zone? You are actually posting a sign to these nut jobs that you are an easy target.

Our Church says Lawful Concealed Carry Zone. In MI churches have to post that it is OK or CPL holders are not allowed CCW like I have is only restricted to Some Government buildings.

I am sure the killer walked into what he accepted to be an unarmed church.

How did that work out for the people in the church?

Obama targets guns. He should target killers.

MisterVeritis
06-19-2015, 08:05 PM
If you have to carry a gun in church to feel safe, or if you even WANT to carry a gun in church to defend yourself by shooting somebody to death before they can shoot you to death, you might as well not even bother going to church or having Christian beliefs to begin with, because the very idea of shooting another person no matter what the reason, is completely 100% antithetical to the very tenets of Christianity.

You might as well just go sit in a strip club, worship titties & drink beer because you're really no different than anyone else.

One major aspect of the whole "God & guns" thing the gun nut crowd just doesn't seem to get.
Dumb, dumb, dumb dumb! Dumb, dumb, dumb, DUMB.

Then do not complain when someone evil steps through the door and kills you and yours. Maybe it should not even be considered a crime.

Susan B. Anthony
06-19-2015, 08:06 PM
If you have to carry a gun in church to feel safe, or if you even WANT to carry a gun in church to defend yourself by shooting somebody to death before they can shoot you to death, you might as well not even bother going to church or having Christian beliefs to begin with, because the very idea of shooting another person no matter what the reason, is completely 100% antithetical to the very tenets of Christianity.

You might as well just go sit in a strip club, worship titties & drink beer because you're really no different than anyone else.

One major aspect of the whole "God & guns" thing the gun nut crowd just doesn't seem to get.

Strip clubs and worshiping boobies is a sin on what planet.

Bob
06-19-2015, 08:07 PM
If you have to carry a gun in church to feel safe, or if you even WANT to carry a gun in church to defend yourself by shooting somebody to death before they can shoot you to death, you might as well not even bother going to church or having Christian beliefs to begin with, because the very idea of shooting another person no matter what the reason, is completely 100% antithetical to the very tenets of Christianity.

You might as well just go sit in a strip club, worship titties & drink beer because you're really no different than anyone else.

One major aspect of the whole "God & guns" thing the gun nut crowd just doesn't seem to get.

Well, you do not believe in the right of self defense.

Why not shoo all cops to a distance of ten miles and put up a sign to the killers, victims inside.

del
06-19-2015, 08:07 PM
Well, you do not believe in the right of self defense.

Why not shoo all cops to a distance of ten miles and put up a sign to the killers, victims inside.

because that would be stupid, bob

zelmo1234
06-19-2015, 08:10 PM
If you have to carry a gun in church to feel safe, or if you even WANT to carry a gun in church to defend yourself by shooting somebody to death before they can shoot you to death, you might as well not even bother going to church or having Christian beliefs to begin with, because the very idea of shooting another person no matter what the reason, is completely 100% antithetical to the very tenets of Christianity.

You might as well just go sit in a strip club, worship titties & drink beer because you're really no different than anyone else.

One major aspect of the whole "God & guns" thing the gun nut crowd just doesn't seem to get.

I don't Remember any teachings that say that you have to be cannon fodder? I remember something about you shall not Murder.

I carry everywhere, it is a habit. it is like my wallet or Watch it is part of the cloths.

You see if I knew where I was going to be a victim of a violent crime? I would not go there? What people don't understand is Concealed Carry is not about fear, it is about family, friends and the innocent in my case

I think that my X put it best when my son retired from the Academy. She was sitting on our patio with here new husband and made the comment. We Fred, if some catastrophic event happened right now, you and I are the only ones on this porch that would be running away from danger.

It is not something that people that don't have this in them will ever be able to understand.

zelmo1234
06-19-2015, 08:11 PM
because that would be stupid, bob

Yes because they already know where these areas are? No need to post the sign!

Susan B. Anthony
06-19-2015, 08:12 PM
I don't Remember any teachings that say that you have to be cannon fodder? I remember something about you shall not Murder.

I carry everywhere, it is a habit. it is like my wallet or Watch it is part of the cloths.

You see if I knew where I was going to be a victim of a violent crime? I would not go there? What people don't understand is Concealed Carry is not about fear, it is about family, friends and the innocent in my case

I think that my X put it best when my son retired from the Academy. She was sitting on our patio with here new husband and made the comment. We Fred, if some catastrophic event happened right now, you and I are the only ones on this porch that would be running away from danger.

It is not something that people that don't have this in them will ever be able to understand.

She said that to her new husband? And you're the X? That changes the dynamic big time.

Bob
06-19-2015, 08:12 PM
because that would be stupid, bob

OK

So you approve!!!

zelmo1234
06-19-2015, 08:19 PM
She said that to her new husband? And you're the X? That changes the dynamic big time.

The Red head and I do things with my X and her husband all the time we have been divorced for 23 years. Chose to raise our kids as one family instead of 2. We are much better at the X thing than we were at being married.

I know that this seems funny for a lot of people, to us it is just the right way to do it.

Green Arrow
06-19-2015, 08:20 PM
It is a place of business open to the public. The state is culpable because state law made that church a state sanctioned killing zone.

A church is not a place of business, but the fact that you are even calling it that just serves to further drive my point home. It's yet another sign of how far we've fallen as a nation.

Susan B. Anthony
06-19-2015, 08:22 PM
The Red head and I do things with my X and her husband all the time we have been divorced for 23 years. Chose to raise our kids as one family instead of 2. We are much better at the X thing than we were at being married.

I know that this seems funny for a lot of people, to us it is just the right way to do it.It's all fine by me. I was just making sure I understood how the story went.

Green Arrow
06-19-2015, 08:22 PM
Note to you - they were SHOT to death. You can't blame feathers.

Now, if feathers were responsible for 30,000+ unnecessary deaths every year, perhaps there would be a dialog on what to do about it. That is, unless a bunch of feather-stroking douchebags by the name of the National Feather Association got in the way.

Right, they were shot to death. By a crazy, hateful human being.

exotix
06-19-2015, 08:25 PM
Wouldn't blacks pack'n in church be considered Malcolm-X-like militant terrorists ga'damning America ?

Susan B. Anthony
06-19-2015, 08:27 PM
Wouldn't blacks pack'n in church be considered Malcolm-X-like militant terrorists ga'$#@!ing America ?

Why blacks?

zelmo1234
06-19-2015, 08:30 PM
Wouldn't blacks pack'n in church be considered Malcolm-X-like militant terrorists ga'$#@!ing America ?

What are you racist? Why should they not be able to lawfully carry if they choose to do so?

BB-35
06-19-2015, 08:31 PM
What can you say to this, I hope no one tries to defend this guy and tell me its about freedom and the 2nd amendment

One of the NRA’s top numbskulls responded to the Charleston church massacre by shooting off his mouth — and blaming the victims.

Displaying all the sensitivity of an anvil, Charles Cotton said the slaughter was the fault of Clementa Pinckney, the murdered pastor (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/rev-clementa-pinckney-killed-charleston-church-massacre-article-1.2262261)of the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church who also was a South Carolina state senator.
“Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead,” Cotton declared. “Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue."



http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nra-officals-blames-pastor-charleston-church-shooting-article-1.2263911
He didn't 'blame' anyone....just stated a fact

Green Arrow
06-19-2015, 08:32 PM
He didn't 'blame' anyone....just stated a fact

He said the massacre was the fault of the pastor. That's blaming and no, it's not a fact.

Bob
06-19-2015, 08:32 PM
Wouldn't blacks pack'n in church be considered Malcolm-X-like militant terrorists ga'damning America ?

What sort of church? exotix

zelmo1234
06-19-2015, 08:33 PM
Well I did decide to purchase a new toy, and because of this thread I think I will make her my Sunday Go to meeting Pistol :)

Is she not beautiful or what?

Peter will understand.http://www.nighthawkcustom.com/media/wysiwyg/slideshow/talon-ii-bob/talon2-bobtail3.jpg

exotix
06-19-2015, 08:33 PM
What are you racist? Why should they not be able to lawfully carry if they choose to do so?
Well, that's always the NRA memo after every massacre ... it's the victims' fault for not pack'n heavy artillery.

Redrose
06-19-2015, 08:35 PM
There is no excuse for blaming a victim of the crime for the event. It is the fault of the shooter and the shooter alone.

That being said, if you choose to have your place of worship or business a Gun Free Zone? You are actually posting a sign to these nut jobs that you are an easy target.

Our Church says Lawful Concealed Carry Zone. In MI churches have to post that it is OK or CPL holders are not allowed CCW like I have is only restricted to Some Government buildings.


The only places it's illegal to carry concealed are those places specified by the CCW permit as off limits, banks, schools, court houses, jails, etc. Local businesses that have a 'no gun'sign posted are not the law. If you go in with a concealed weapon, and they know, you can be told to leave, it's their business, but its not the law.

Like I've said before, I've had two close calls in my life, a home invasion and a car jacking, both times having a gun saved my life. My gun is either in my purse or in my car or on my nightstand.

zelmo1234
06-19-2015, 08:35 PM
Well, that's always the NRA memo after every massacre ... it's the victims' fault for not pack'n heavy artillery.

Don't think anyone should ever blame the victim. But if you are willing to sit around for long periods of time in an area where nut jobs know you can't have a gun?

We know that all of these folks choose Gun free zones to do there worst. Why do you think that is?

exotix
06-19-2015, 08:36 PM
What sort of church? @exotix (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=516)
I myself always liked this one ..

http://www.ew.com/sites/default/files/styles/tout_image_612x380/public/i/2013/11/08/beneath-the-planet-of-the-apes_612x380_0.jpg?itok=HMWVs4kf

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/planetoftheapes/images/4/4e/Mutant_service.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090917145329

http://thedonaldstreetcollective.weebly.com/uploads/2/3/8/4/23849300/7257396_orig.jpg

zelmo1234
06-19-2015, 08:37 PM
The only places it's illegal to carry concealed are those places specified by the CCW permit as off limits, banks, schools, court houses, jails, etc. Local businesses that have a 'no gun'sign posted are not the law. If you go in with a concealed weapon, and they know, you can be told to leave, it's their business, but its not the law.

Every State is different. In MI if their is a sign posted, it is not legal to carry in that establishment.

So be carful when traveling to other states. Even I have to put my gun in a locked case to go through Chicago.



Like I've said before, I've had two close calls in my life, a home invasion and a car jacking, both times having a gun saved my life. My gun is either in my purse or in my car or on my nightstand.

Redrose
06-19-2015, 08:38 PM
Well I did decide to purchase a new toy, and because of this thread I think I will make her my Sunday Go to meeting Pistol :)

Is she not beautiful or what?

Peter will understand.http://www.nighthawkcustom.com/media/wysiwyg/slideshow/talon-ii-bob/talon2-bobtail3.jpg


I like the bullets.

zelmo1234
06-19-2015, 08:41 PM
I like the bullets.

I like these

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wi1UnTxNcs&feature=player_embedded

Bob
06-19-2015, 08:42 PM
I myself always liked this one ..

http://www.ew.com/sites/default/files/styles/tout_image_612x380/public/i/2013/11/08/beneath-the-planet-of-the-apes_612x380_0.jpg?itok=HMWVs4kf

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/planetoftheapes/images/4/4e/Mutant_service.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090917145329

http://thedonaldstreetcollective.weebly.com/uploads/2/3/8/4/23849300/7257396_orig.jpg

I was talking to a man just like you are.

I says to him, I believe in GOD.

He says, he came from monkeys.

I says to him, well you persuaded me, you came from monkeys.

I credit God.

BB-35
06-19-2015, 08:45 PM
He said the massacre was the fault of the pastor. That's blaming and no, it's not a fact.
Sorry,but no he didn't


And it is a fact

exotix
06-19-2015, 08:46 PM
Don't think anyone should ever blame the victim. But if you are willing to sit around for long periods of time in an area where nut jobs know you can't have a gun?

We know that all of these folks choose Gun free zones to do there worst. Why do you think that is?Well quit kidding ... why would an insane mass-murderer attack a wartime fortified position ?

BB-35
06-19-2015, 08:46 PM
Well, that's always the NRA memo after every massacre ... it's the victims' fault for not pack'n heavy artillery.
Oh stop lying

zelmo1234
06-19-2015, 08:48 PM
Well quit kidding ... why would an insane mass-murderer attack a wartime fortified position ?

Now you get it! They like easy targets.

Green Arrow
06-19-2015, 08:48 PM
Sorry,but no he didn't


And it is a fact

“Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead,” Cotton declared. “Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue."

I don't see how you could possibly spin that as not blaming the pastor for their deaths.

exotix
06-19-2015, 08:51 PM
Now you get it! They like easy targets.
That's right ... the founding fathers in all their wisdom drafted the 2nd Amendment so we can all live our lives on high-alert in Firebase-like conditions.

zelmo1234
06-19-2015, 08:51 PM
“Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead,” Cotton declared. “Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue."

I don't see how you could possibly spin that as not blaming the pastor for their deaths.

It is the fault of the shooter, and the shooter alone.

People do have to make decisions for themselves. They knew it was a Gun Free zone. They decided that it was OK.

The pastor is not to blame.

MisterVeritis
06-19-2015, 08:52 PM
A church is not a place of business, but the fact that you are even calling it that just serves to further drive my point home. It's yet another sign of how far we've fallen as a nation.
Of course it is. Religion is Big Business. The pastor has a duty to protect the shoppers who come there to shop.

Green Arrow
06-19-2015, 08:53 PM
It is the fault of the shooter, and the shooter alone.

People do have to make decisions for themselves. They knew it was a Gun Free zone. They decided that it was OK.

The pastor is not to blame.

Right, I agree with that, but this guy mentioned in the OP pretty clearly blamed the pastor and for some reason, BB-35 is trying to spin it as not blaming the pastor. It's pretty blatant.

Redrose
06-19-2015, 08:53 PM
Well, that's always the NRA memo after every massacre ... it's the victims' fault for not pack'n heavy artillery.


We humans have always tried to reduce our vulnerability, whether it's against assailants, accidents, illnesses, acts of nature or battle.

We get vaccinines as babies and children to keep us safe from deadly diseases. We teach our children to be careful crossing streets, and be wary of strangers. We have traffic devices to control traffic and reduce accidents, cars are built with more and more safety devices to protect us, air bags, front-side, cameras, transmissions that slow down and break when they sense a crash is imminent, reinforced passenger compartments. Our homes have locks, alarms, cameras, security gates, walls, some people have armed body guards.

Why is it so wrong to be vigilant with safety tools, such as a gun, when we put ourselves in a potentially dangerous situation? Today, any large congregation of people, churches, parks, schools, arenas, stadiums, movies, malls are soft targets for madmen and terrorists. Banning guns just invites trouble. It's like advertising you leave you door unlocked at night and then complain when you are burglarized.
Villians look for the easy target. You don't see them storm a police station guns blazing. They'd be swiss cheese in minutes.

What I would tell these ministers, priests and pastors who ban guns in church, 'God helps those who help themselves.'

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Green Arrow
06-19-2015, 08:53 PM
Of course it is. Religion is Big Business. The pastor has a duty to protect the shoppers who come there to shop.

That's sickening.

Susan B. Anthony
06-19-2015, 08:53 PM
“Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead,” Cotton declared. “Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue."

I don't see how you could possibly spin that as not blaming the pastor for their deaths.What is the opposite position, that these people are somehow better off since they couldn't use guns?

If they had guns, the very worst scenario is the same and could be much better.

MisterVeritis
06-19-2015, 08:56 PM
He said the massacre was the fault of the pastor. That's blaming and no, it's not a fact.
"Pinckney had “voted against concealed-carry.”

From the story. It looks like the senator was a victim of his idiotic vote. Wouldn't it be cool if all justice happened this way? It is like touching a hot stovetop. It is a shame that eight others had to die to atone for his democratic policy vote.

zelmo1234
06-19-2015, 08:56 PM
That's right ... the founding fathers in all their wisdom drafted the 2nd Amendment so we can all live our lives on high-alert on Firebase-like conditions.

Well that is a little correct in a way. Those that choose to carry should be much more aware of their surroundings.

A few years ago I stopped in a gas station late in the evening There were two guys that looked to be casing the joint so when I reached for my wallet I made the mistake of letting them see my gun. I asked the lady behind the counter of an Ice cream bar and asked if she would mind if I stop of to the side and ate it.

They left without purchasing anything. Now I don't know if they were up to no good or just getting warm. but I told her if they came back to call the police and then called them and told them what happened myself.

So YES if you carry a gun you need to pay attention.

Redrose
06-19-2015, 08:57 PM
I like these

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wi1UnTxNcs&feature=player_embedded


That's gunna leave a mark. lol

exotix
06-19-2015, 08:58 PM
Well that is a little correct in a way. Those that choose to carry should be much more aware of their surroundings.

A few years ago I stopped in a gas station late in the evening There were two guys that looked to be casing the joint so when I reached for my wallet I made the mistake of letting them see my gun. I asked the lady behind the counter of an Ice cream bar and asked if she would mind if I stop of to the side and ate it.

They left without purchasing anything. Now I don't know if they were up to no good or just getting warm. but I told her if they came back to call the police and then called them and told them what happened myself.

So YES if you carry a gun you need to pay attention.
Cool ... hopefully you don't look like somebody from a tyrannical govt giving justification to get your ass capped.

MisterVeritis
06-19-2015, 09:00 PM
"Of course it is. Religion is Big Business. The pastor has a duty to protect the shoppers who come there to shop."

That's sickening.
Have you seen all of the amazing shopping centers?
http://www.christianscienceneworleans.org/about.html
http://www.metropolitanamec.org/aboutus.asp
https://c21sunset.wordpress.com/category/fredericksburg-tx/churches/
http://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2013/11/haunting-urbex-photographs-in-beautiful-abandoned-churches/

They shoud have had these in the pews: http://allchristiannews.com/appeal-challenging-georgias-ban-on-guns-in-church-is-refused-by-u-s-supreme-court/

zelmo1234
06-19-2015, 09:01 PM
Cool ... hopefully you don't look like somebody from a tyrannical govt giving justification to get your ass capped.

Yeah I kind of look like that. didn't have the dark glasses though :)

domer76
06-19-2015, 10:22 PM
President of the National Feather Association:
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=JN.iLsAoYCSD5GWEgf4aSiF8Q&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

I think she's dead, too. Just as dead as the people shot in SC.

domer76
06-19-2015, 10:26 PM
Right, they were shot to death. By a crazy, hateful human being.

Yep. With easy access to guns. Guns, that are involved in 30,000 or so needless deaths a year.

maineman
06-19-2015, 10:29 PM
Why blacks?How many white churches have had incidents of black folks joining them in worship only to stand up in the middle of the service and slaughter nine parishioners?

gamewell45
06-19-2015, 10:36 PM
Dumb, dumb, dumb dumb! Dumb, dumb, dumb, DUMB.

Then do not complain when someone evil steps through the door and kills you and yours. Maybe it should not even be considered a crime.

We all have to die someday. I don't care how many guns you have on you, when its your time, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

You could leave your house with a .50 cal machine gun strapped to your chest and all someone has to do is walk up behind you, pull out their .38 cal revolver, pull the trigger and your dead; nothing much you can do about it no matter how heavily armed you are.

del
06-19-2015, 10:41 PM
I don't Remember any teachings that say that you have to be cannon fodder? I remember something about you shall not Murder.

I carry everywhere, it is a habit. it is like my wallet or Watch it is part of the cloths.

You see if I knew where I was going to be a victim of a violent crime? I would not go there? What people don't understand is Concealed Carry is not about fear, it is about family, friends and the innocent in my case

I think that my X put it best when my son retired from the Academy. She was sitting on our patio with here new husband and made the comment. We Fred, if some catastrophic event happened right now, you and I are the only ones on this porch that would be running away from danger.

It is not something that people that don't have this in them will ever be able to understand.

yeah, it takes big balls to be a slumlord

Safety
06-19-2015, 11:17 PM
It is the fault of the shooter, and the shooter alone.

People do have to make decisions for themselves. They knew it was a Gun Free zone. They decided that it was OK.

The pastor is not to blame.

What about the culture of reading inflammatory comments about how blacks are raping their woman and taking over? Why not go to the streets and take care of business where the potential "rapists and pillagers" are, and not a church where everyone is pretty much waiting out life?

You've seemed to have blamed Obama for less....

(ie NY cops murdered)

Tahuyaman
06-19-2015, 11:26 PM
Doesn't sound any more ridiculous than blaming the gun or the Confederate flag, which seem to be the primary culprits for some on the "left".


Its no more ridiculous than Hillary Clunton blaming it on a Republucan presidential candidate's rhetoric. But the liberals will justify that.

Don
06-19-2015, 11:55 PM
Not to worry about living in a sick world. Just tell your kids that when the killing starts to just play dead.

Bob
06-20-2015, 12:27 AM
What about the culture of reading inflammatory comments about how blacks are raping their woman and taking over? Why not go to the streets and take care of business where the potential "rapists and pillagers" are, and not a church where everyone is pretty much waiting out life?

You've seemed to have blamed Obama for less....

(ie NY cops murdered)

On the internet, it is not very hard to find accounts of those blacks raping white women and so forth. He probably focused only on that part.

Tahuyaman
06-20-2015, 12:31 AM
I'm waiting for someone to claim he got his idea to do this from watching Fox News.

Mac-7
06-20-2015, 05:39 AM
The shooter reloaded 5 times.

Of course he could have been stopped if someone in the church had been armed.

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 06:50 AM
yeah, it takes big balls to be a slumlord

Doesn't take any, I have a lady in charge of that division. But how does it feel knowing that I take in every month more money that you have made in your entire life? :)

So does it take big balls to be a failure? Just asking

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 06:52 AM
What about the culture of reading inflammatory comments about how blacks are raping their woman and taking over? Why not go to the streets and take care of business where the potential "rapists and pillagers" are, and not a church where everyone is pretty much waiting out life?

You've seemed to have blamed Obama for less....

(ie NY cops murdered)

So I blame the shooter and you somehow bring Obama into it.

So yes, Obama and his administration are race baiters. They are big on dividing the country. But this sick bastard is responsible for the shooting. And last time I checked he was white.

Green Arrow
06-20-2015, 07:20 AM
Yep. With easy access to guns. Guns, that are involved in 30,000 or so needless deaths a year.

Which is .01% of the population. Put a gun on a table for 100 years, never touch it, and it won't kill anyone.

Safety
06-20-2015, 08:04 AM
So I blame the shooter and you somehow bring Obama into it.

So yes, Obama and his administration are race baiters. They are big on dividing the country. But this sick bastard is responsible for the shooting. And last time I checked he was white.

Yea...just showing the difference in responses from the same poster. I put in bold the part that I was emphasizing, so you know exactly what I was referring to, but to refresh your mind, here is a quote...



Liberals have been pushing for this, now that it has happened they need to deny it!

That is all they are trying to do is spin it!

They are very close to getting the violence they have so been hoping for!

Safety
06-20-2015, 08:06 AM
On the internet, it is not very hard to find accounts of those blacks raping white women and so forth. He probably focused only on that part.

It isn't hard to find anything to confirm your biases on the internet.

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 08:08 AM
Yea...just showing the difference in responses from the same poster. I put in bold the part that I was emphasizing, so you know exactly what I was referring to, but to refresh your mind, here is a quote...

Yes that does not have anything to do with this issue, and it not being the pastor fault.

Liberals are trying to divide this country. The race and class wars benefit them because they can play on peoples fears.

They really don't have a choice the policies they support Americans Don't and the ones that they have passed are total and complete failures. So why not Jin up some good old fashion riots and blame it on the police and white folks and tell everyone that can't find a job that the rich man stole that job from them.

MisterVeritis
06-20-2015, 08:18 AM
We all have to die someday. I don't care how many guns you have on you, when its your time, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

You could leave your house with a .50 cal machine gun strapped to your chest and all someone has to do is walk up behind you, pull out their .38 cal revolver, pull the trigger and your dead; nothing much you can do about it no matter how heavily armed you are.
I am happy to have you do as you wish.

Safety
06-20-2015, 08:45 AM
Yes that does not have anything to do with this issue, and it not being the pastor fault.

Liberals are trying to divide this country. The race and class wars benefit them because they can play on peoples fears.

They really don't have a choice the policies they support Americans Don't and the ones that they have passed are total and complete failures. So why not Jin up some good old fashion riots and blame it on the police and white folks and tell everyone that can't find a job that the rich man stole that job from them.

LoL, it has everything to do with this issue, because the elephant in the room is ignored. The same rhetoric is used whenever something happens and the perp happens to be black, you have cons pointing out the disparity between how the blacks act compared to the civilized whites. Here is a case where someone acted out on that rhetoric and you have the gall to sit here and still blame liberals.

Just so that we're clear on your position....

Two cops murdered in cold blood in NY, it's the fault of liberals and they are trying to hate on white folks and the rich.

9 black people killed in a church by a person who was a self described white nationalist who said "they are raping our women and taking over" like many many websites dedicated to such messages and you say "it is the fault of the shooter, and the shooter alone"

Thanks for proving my point.

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 08:53 AM
LoL, it has everything to do with this issue, because the elephant in the room is ignored. The same rhetoric is used whenever something happens and the perp happens to be black, you have cons pointing out the disparity between how the blacks act compared to the civilized whites. Here is a case where someone acted out on that rhetoric and you have the gall to sit here and still blame liberals.

Just so that we're clear on your position....

Two cops murdered in cold blood in NY, it's the fault of liberals and they are trying to hate on white folks and the rich.

9 black people killed in a church by a person who was a self described white nationalist who said "they are raping our women and taking over" like many many websites dedicated to such messages and you say "it is the fault of the shooter, and the shooter alone"

Thanks for proving my point.

So you do not understand that when you divide thing, like the people of this nation for example, there are 2 sides??

I will write slowly so you can understand.

When you divide people by the color of their skin you end up with 2 sides

ones side has White people, The other side has people of color

Now if I have 2 sides there are going to be some crazy people that do bad things on both sides.

So if it is your policy to divide the nations and some crazy people shoot up a place because of hate? WELL then is you get to have some of the blame no matter which side the nut job comes off from.

See how that works.

The problem that you had was since the beginning the left has been trying to make it a one way street by pretending that the whites were always wrong and the blacks were always innocent. there are guilty on both sides

Safety
06-20-2015, 08:59 AM
So you do not understand that when you divide thing, like the people of this nation for example, there are 2 sides??

I will write slowly so you can understand.

When you divide people by the color of their skin you end up with 2 sides

ones side has White people, The other side has people of color

Now if I have 2 sides there are going to be some crazy people that do bad things on both sides.

So if it is your policy to divide the nations and some crazy people shoot up a place because of hate? WELL then is you get to have some of the blame no matter which side the nut job comes off from.

See how that works.

The problem that you had was since the beginning the left has been trying to make it a one way street by pretending that the whites were always wrong and the blacks were always innocent. there are guilty on both sides

Nah brother, I just showed how you "divided" the situation by the different responses to the events.

The NY event was first, you blamed liberals. This event happened, you say it was the fault and only the fault of the shooter.

In the NY event, I said the guy was responsible for his actions. In this event I said this guy was responsible for his actions.

domer76
06-20-2015, 08:59 AM
The shooter reloaded 5 times.

Of course he could have been stopped if someone in the church had been armed.

"Could have/if" has never happened in the history of mankind

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 09:07 AM
Nah brother, I just showed how you "divided" the situation by the different responses to the events.

The NY event was first, you blamed liberals. This event happened, you say it was the fault and only the fault of the shooter.

In the NY event, I said the guy was responsible for his actions. In this event I said this guy was responsible for his actions.

NO I said that the policies of the left are creating division in the country. This is not an accident and the unrest and violence is exactly what the left has planned. So they are getting close to what they are wishing for.

That does not remove the blame from the individuals that pulled the trigger in both cases

What you did was take something out of context and try to make it look like I was taking both sides of an issue.

But I am not. Blaming the left and this administration for trying to divide and put the sides against each other is going to create monsters on both sides. You all can take credit for that.

But you still don't get the blame for pulling the trigger.

domer76
06-20-2015, 09:11 AM
Which is .01% of the population. Put a gun on a table for 100 years, never touch it, and it won't kill anyone.

So, I guess those 30,000 are insignificant to you.

The other "inanimate object" argument is also a trite and failed one. Meth never killed anyone either, did it?

Safety
06-20-2015, 09:11 AM
NO I said that the policies of the left are creating division in the country. This is not an accident and the unrest and violence is exactly what the left has planned. So they are getting close to what they are wishing for.

That does not remove the blame from the individuals that pulled the trigger in both cases

What you did was take something out of context and try to make it look like I was taking both sides of an issue.

But I am not. Blaming the left and this administration for trying to divide and put the sides against each other is going to create monsters on both sides. You all can take credit for that.

But you still don't get the blame for pulling the trigger.


Silly me for thinking I could just read what is posted without having to apply a partisan filter to understand what the intent was.

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 09:15 AM
Silly me for thinking I could just read what is posted without having to apply a partisan filter to understand what the intent was.

Yes I know when you put things in context it really ruins some of the best lies of the left.

That is what would make it so hard for me to go back to the left. You have to be able to twist and turn things to try and make your positions look relevant.

Mac-7
06-20-2015, 09:17 AM
"Could have/if" has never happened in the history of mankind

Of course it has

Armed citizens successfully defend against criminals all the time

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 09:17 AM
So, I guess those 30,000 are insignificant to you.

The other "inanimate object" argument is also a trite and failed one. Meth never killed anyone either, did it?

So if you were to snap your fingers and take all of the guns away. Are you under the illusion that all 30,000 people would still be alive today?

Because knives and bats and all kinds of things are used to kill people all around the world

domer76
06-20-2015, 09:18 AM
Of course it has

Armed citizens successfully defend against criminals all the time

I'll repeat. Ifs and could haves

domer76
06-20-2015, 09:19 AM
I'll repeat. Ifs and could haves have never happened in the history of mankind

Not too difficult to understand

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 09:21 AM
I'll repeat. Ifs and could haves

There are no ifs and could haves there are actual events where people have defended themselves against criminals with firearms.

Do you deny that?

maineman
06-20-2015, 09:32 AM
There are no ifs and could haves there are actual events where people have defended themselves against criminals with firearms.

Do you deny that?

do you really think that entering the house of God for the purpose of worship and carrying a firearm are things that should happen concurrently?

domer76
06-20-2015, 09:54 AM
So if you were to snap your fingers and take all of the guns away. Are you under the illusion that all 30,000 people would still be alive today?

Because knives and bats and all kinds of things are used to kill people all around the world

They sure do. But you have to get up close and personal to use a knife or bat. But we're not talking about the rest of the world, are we? We're talking about gun violence in the US, which leads the western world in gun violence. Gee, with 1 gun for every man, woman and child, I am shocked how that could possibly happen. Shocked, I tell you!

Those 30,000 might not all be alive today. But a bunch of parents in Sandy Hook might be grandparents some day or at least still attending soccer games and the such. Or that church in SC would have a few more attendees tomorrow. You can bet on both of those scenarios.

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 10:00 AM
do you really think that entering the house of God for the purpose of worship and carrying a firearm are things that should happen concurrently?

Yes I am willing to protect people anywhere.

Do you think it is a good Idea to advertise to these nut jobs safe places where they can go and shoot people?

What you have to understand it that I hope and pray that I will never, ever have to use my weapon against anything that is not a paper, steel or wood target. But if the situation arises that I do need it. I want to have it with me.

Most people think that it makes you brave, to the sane person it makes you more careful. There are places that I will not go when I am carrying that if I were not I would have no issue. But because the risk is so much higher, I can't take that chance.

In a perfect world it would be nice if Churches and schools, movie theaters were off limits, but they are not. So why make it easy?

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 10:04 AM
They sure do. But you have to get up close and personal to use a knife or bat. But we're not talking about the rest of the world, are we? We're talking about gun violence in the US, which leads the western world in gun violence. Gee, with 1 gun for every man, woman and child, I am shocked how that could possibly happen. Shocked, I tell you!

Those 30,000 might not all be alive today. But a bunch of parents in Sandy Hook might be grandparents some day or at least still attending soccer games and the such. Or that church in SC would have a few more attendees tomorrow. You can bet on both of those scenarios.

Really, what if he did not have a gun and chose to use a bomb like that idiot in Oklahoma City did? Maybe there would be 200 more parents without children.

And as long as we are speculating, what if the teacher would have been carrying and had the training to use a firearm?

The fact is that you can't get rid of the guns in the USA. without a war. and even if all of the lawful owners were to turn there guns in, then only the criminals would have guns.

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 10:08 AM
Some crazy racist barges into a church and slaughters people praying inside and people want to talk about guns.

Some crazy Muslim enters a synagogue and slaughters people praying inside and some people want to talk about global warming.

It's party time.

Mac-7
06-20-2015, 10:12 AM
I'll repeat. Ifs and could haves

And I repeat,

Armed citizens successfully defend themselves with guns every day

domer76
06-20-2015, 10:12 AM
There are no ifs and could haves there are actual events where people have defended themselves against criminals with firearms.

Do you deny that?

I never deny ACTUAL events. What I do call bullshit on is the concocted 'if/would have' crap that people try to pass of as fact. There is no 'if/would have' in this shooting. There are just 9 people dead.

You want to 'if/would have'? I can make up as many fake scenarios as you can. It doesn't change what happened here, Sandy Hook, Aurora, Tucson, or any of the others.

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 10:17 AM
I never deny ACTUAL events. What I do call bull$#@! on is the concocted 'if/would have' crap that people try to pass of as fact. There is no 'if/would have' in this shooting. There are just 9 people dead.

You want to 'if/would have'? I can make up as many fake scenarios as you can. It doesn't change what happened here, Sandy Hook, Aurora, Tucson, or any of the others.

Actually you are great at if and would have.

You play it all the time. If we had more gun laws, these crimes would not happen? you just play a different side of the If and would have.

There is NO promise that if there were no guns that these people would be alive.

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 10:17 AM
I never deny ACTUAL events. What I do call bull$#@! on is the concocted 'if/would have' crap that people try to pass of as fact. There is no 'if/would have' in this shooting. There are just 9 people dead.

You want to 'if/would have'? I can make up as many fake scenarios as you can. It doesn't change what happened here, Sandy Hook, Aurora, Tucson, or any of the others.

The facts are these: 9 people were slaughtered in cold blood. If they all had guns the outcome couldn't have been worse.

exotix
06-20-2015, 10:22 AM
And I repeat,

Armed citizens successfully defend themselves with guns every day
This firearm massacre gives your *norm* a whole new meaning ... eh ?


http://i60.tinypic.com/3503p86.jpg

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 10:23 AM
This firearm massacre gives your *norm* a whole new meaning ... eh ?


http://i60.tinypic.com/3503p86.jpg

It's a fluid language. What used to mean marriage is now something different, as well.

exotix
06-20-2015, 10:28 AM
It's a fluid language. What used to mean marriage is now something different, as well.
No doubt the next gun massacre will be at a wedding ...


https://36.media.tumblr.com/cf1d688ccfe62e6158dfaa8b7f28c2ee/tumblr_n65tc9Ac1J1skcf13o1_500.jpg

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 10:30 AM
No doubt the next gun massacre will be at a wedding ...


https://36.media.tumblr.com/cf1d688ccfe62e6158dfaa8b7f28c2ee/tumblr_n65tc9Ac1J1skcf13o1_500.jpg

So you're safe.

domer76
06-20-2015, 10:36 AM
Really, what if he did not have a gun and chose to use a bomb like that idiot in Oklahoma City did? Maybe there would be 200 more parents without children.

And as long as we are speculating, what if the teacher would have been carrying and had the training to use a firearm?

The fact is that you can't get rid of the guns in the USA. without a war. and even if all of the lawful owners were to turn there guns in, then only the criminals would have guns.

He didn't "what if" anything. That's what I'm trying to get across to you gun violence apologists. There is no 'what if', 'could have', 'should have', or 'would have' that many of you are so fond of to excuse this kind of shit. Look at the posts of the gun nuts. They are loaded with all of the above.

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 10:38 AM
He didn't "what if" anything. That's what I'm trying to get across to you gun violence apologists. There is no 'what if', 'could have', 'should have', or 'would have' that many of you are so fond of to excuse this kind of $#@!. Look at the posts of the gun nuts. They are loaded with all of the above.

9 people were slaughtered in cold blood. "If only" there were stronger gun control laws.

domer76
06-20-2015, 10:56 AM
Actually you are great at if and would have.

You play it all the time. If we had more gun laws, these crimes would not happen? you just play a different side of the If and would have.

There is NO promise that if there were no guns that these people would be alive.

Find where I ever said "if there were more gun laws these crimes would not happen." Wait, don't waste your time because I never have. Don't pull a Mr. D or T-hoohoo on me abd start lying about my posts.

birddog
06-20-2015, 10:58 AM
The news media needs to emphasize that the shooter was on a dangerous prescription psycho-trophic drug that causes erratic behavior, which likely compounded his racism. Of course, those drugs bring in millions of revenue for all the networks.

Bob
06-20-2015, 11:10 AM
It isn't hard to find anything to confirm your biases on the internet.

Echo chamber effect.

domer76
06-20-2015, 11:15 AM
Some crazy racist barges into a church and slaughters people praying inside and people want to talk about guns.

Some crazy Muslim enters a synagogue and slaughters people praying inside and some people want to talk about global warming.

It's party time.

I rarely discuss global warming and wanted to talk about the preponderance of gun violence 25 years ago.

Bob
06-20-2015, 11:16 AM
Nah brother, I just showed how you "divided" the situation by the different responses to the events.

The NY event was first, you blamed liberals. This event happened, you say it was the fault and only the fault of the shooter.

In the NY event, I said the guy was responsible for his actions. In this event I said this guy was responsible for his actions.

They killed as individuals, so they are responsible as individuals.

What sucks is the left wants to make it a race issue and cast a wide net on those entirely not guilty.

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 11:19 AM
I rarely discuss global warming and wanted to talk about the preponderance of gun violence 25 years ago.

It's certainly an ongoing problem.

Stricter gun laws have helped curtail the murders. I think they should be even more strict and help the problem even more.

Mac-7
06-20-2015, 11:50 AM
This firearm massacre gives your *norm* a whole new meaning ... eh ?


http://i60.tinypic.com/3503p86.jpg

Given a choice I'd rather these nutcases kill unarmed atheists rather than good Christians.

domer76
06-20-2015, 12:02 PM
Given a choice I'd rather these nutcases kill unarmed atheists rather than good Christians.

Good thing you don't have a choice, fuckwad.

Private Pickle
06-20-2015, 12:02 PM
Given a choice I'd rather these nutcases kill unarmed atheists rather than good Christians.

Very Christian of you.

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 12:16 PM
Very Christian of you.

You can't be Christian and want to kill people? What kind of a religion is that?

Green Arrow
06-20-2015, 12:19 PM
So, I guess those 30,000 are insignificant to you.

The other "inanimate object" argument is also a trite and failed one. Meth never killed anyone either, did it?

Smoking kills millions and, unlike gun deaths, is a conscious, personal choice. I'd much rather end smoking.

Archer0915
06-20-2015, 12:23 PM
What can you say to this, I hope no one tries to defend this guy and tell me its about freedom and the 2nd amendment

One of the NRA’s top numbskulls responded to the Charleston church massacre by shooting off his mouth — and blaming the victims.

Displaying all the sensitivity of an anvil, Charles Cotton said the slaughter was the fault of Clementa Pinckney, the murdered pastor (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/rev-clementa-pinckney-killed-charleston-church-massacre-article-1.2262261)of the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church who also was a South Carolina state senator.
“Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead,” Cotton declared. “Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue."



http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nra-officals-blames-pastor-charleston-church-shooting-article-1.2263911

And sh!t like that is why I quit the NRA.

Mac-7
06-20-2015, 12:32 PM
Good thing you don't have a choice, $#@!wad.

We do have a choice.

Christian conservatives can arm themselves and force the killers to go somewhere else

domer76
06-20-2015, 01:47 PM
It's certainly an ongoing problem.

Stricter gun laws have helped curtail the murders. I think they should be even more strict and help the problem even more.

Naw. Just target the manufacturers for product liability.

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 01:55 PM
Naw. Just target the manufacturers for product liability.

There is much more money if we target the taxpayers.

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 02:08 PM
You can't be Christian and want to kill people? What kind of a religion is that?

Islam!

domer76
06-20-2015, 02:22 PM
Smoking kills millions and, unlike gun deaths, is a conscious, personal choice. I'd much rather end smoking.

Yep. And we sued the living shit out of tobacco companies, didn't we?

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 02:24 PM
Yep. And we sued the living $#@! out of tobacco companies, didn't we?

They sued the shit out of the gun companies too! S&W actually settled, and pissed off a bunch of people.

domer76
06-20-2015, 02:44 PM
They sued the shit out of the gun companies too! S&W actually settled, and pissed off a bunch of people.

They need to continue doing so

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 02:54 PM
The shooter reloaded 5 times.

Of course he could have been stopped if someone in the church had been armed.

Yeah, perhaps one of the senior women there could have pulled a .44 magnum out of her bra and blasted away. :huh:

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 02:57 PM
The news media needs to emphasize that the shooter was on a dangerous prescription psycho-trophic drug that causes erratic behavior, which likely compounded his racism. Of course, those drugs bring in millions of revenue for all the networks.
It's all about money when it comes to the mainstream media. Ratings = money; money = ratings. It's capitalism at its best.

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 02:58 PM
Given a choice I'd rather these nutcases kill unarmed atheists rather than good Christians.
How charitable of you. I'm sure Jesus would be proud of you.

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 03:10 PM
Yeah, perhaps one of the senior women there could have pulled a .44 magnum out of her bra and blasted away. :huh:

If she did, the outcome couldn't have been worse. No one did anything so foolish as you suggest, yet the worst case scenario happened.

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 03:13 PM
They need to continue doing so

I think that they should sue car companies when you get into and accident. and Bathtub companies when you slip and fall in the tub. How about suing the government when someone drowns in a reservoir

Lets sue grocery stores and restaurants when people die of a heart attack

You lefties really know no bounds when it comes to getting your way.

Gun companies don't kill people, people kill people.

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 03:17 PM
Yeah, perhaps one of the senior women there could have pulled a .44 magnum out of her bra and blasted away. :huh:

The man reloaded 5 times Why does I have to be a 44 magnum. Hell some throwing stars might have done the trick! OR Did your sheets get clean from all of the bed shitting that you lefties have been doing so you needed to ramp it up a bit..

None will admit that these things nearly always happen in a gun free zone. And you will never acknowledge that another gun inn the hands of a good guy trained to use it would have saved lives.

Just remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 03:18 PM
If she did, the outcome couldn't have been worse. No one did anything so foolish as you suggest, yet the worst case scenario happened.

Just remember that according to the left, you are 2 to 3 times as dead if you are killed with a gun. so guns are bad.

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 03:20 PM
Just remember that according to the left, you are 2 to 3 times as dead if you are killed with a gun. so guns are bad.

Oh guns are bad, alright. They're even worse when some crazy man has one and is trying to kill you with it while you sit there and wonder why you don't have one.

MisterVeritis
06-20-2015, 03:28 PM
Nah brother, I just showed how you "divided" the situation by the different responses to the events.

The NY event was first, you blamed liberals. This event happened, you say it was the fault and only the fault of the shooter.

In the NY event, I said the guy was responsible for his actions. In this event I said this guy was responsible for his actions.
In both cases it is reasonable to blame liberalism. Liberals come in a variety of colors.

MisterVeritis
06-20-2015, 03:29 PM
Of course it has

Armed citizens successfully defend against criminals all the time
Not in domer's make believe world.

MisterVeritis
06-20-2015, 03:31 PM
do you really think that entering the house of God for the purpose of worship and carrying a firearm are things that should happen concurrently?
Do you believe that god is unfamiliar with weapons? Are shepherds armed when they guard their flocks? I know this will be a challenge for you. Try to be honest. If you can.

MisterVeritis
06-20-2015, 03:32 PM
And I repeat,

Armed citizens successfully defend themselves with guns every day
It will be of little use. Domer checked his brain at the log-in screen.

MisterVeritis
06-20-2015, 03:33 PM
No doubt the next gun massacre will be at a wedding ...


https://36.media.tumblr.com/cf1d688ccfe62e6158dfaa8b7f28c2ee/tumblr_n65tc9Ac1J1skcf13o1_500.jpg
I love Kill Bill.

MisterVeritis
06-20-2015, 03:36 PM
Smoking kills millions and, unlike gun deaths, is a conscious, personal choice. I'd much rather end smoking.
Then don't smoke.

MisterVeritis
06-20-2015, 03:37 PM
And sh!t like that is why I quit the NRA.
Was it your inability to reason? I understand that. Or was it the annual dues?

domer76
06-20-2015, 04:08 PM
Yeah, perhaps one of the senior women there could have pulled a .44 magnum out of her bra and blasted away. :huh:
Now those would be BIG boobs!

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 04:13 PM
Now those would be BIG boobs!

I do not know why I laughed so hard when I read this, but I did

domer76
06-20-2015, 04:15 PM
I think that they should sue car companies when you get into and accident. and Bathtub companies when you slip and fall in the tub. How about suing the government when someone drowns in a reservoir

Lets sue grocery stores and restaurants when people die of a heart attack

You lefties really know no bounds when it comes to getting your way.

Gun companies don't kill people, people kill people.

Don't try that childish bullshit comparison between guns and cars. Or bathtubs or any of the other lame shit you just tried. It doesn't fly. The "guns don't kill people" crap is nothing more than you parroting the NRA mantra like the lemming you are.

Guns are made with the express intent of shooting something. And one of 'somethings' is people. Sue the living shit out of them for the consequences of their product.

Green Arrow
06-20-2015, 04:34 PM
Yep. And we sued the living shit out of tobacco companies, didn't we?

What did that accomplish? Smoking continues, largely unabated.

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 04:39 PM
Don't try that childish bull$#@! comparison between guns and cars. Or bathtubs or any of the other lame $#@! you just tried. It doesn't fly. The "guns don't kill people" crap is nothing more than you parroting the NRA mantra like the lemming you are.

Guns are made with the express intent of shooting something. And one of 'somethings' is people. Sue the living $#@! out of them for the consequences of their product.

That is great so what will they do? They will close down the factories in the USA and build them off shore. You liberals are idiots, Guns are not created to kill people they are created to protect people. Like Green arrow said put and gun on a table for 100 years and see if it ever kills someone all by itself.

Cars kill more people in a month and guns do in a year. Many people use them around the world for Car Bombs why not sue them too?

let me guess, you feel that if there were no guns in the hands of law abiding citizens the world would be a better place.

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 04:40 PM
What did that accomplish? Smoking continues, largely unabated.

Green he is not concerned with the outcome or results. only the appearance of compassion, it is what they live on!

domer76
06-20-2015, 05:00 PM
I do not know why I laughed so hard when I read this, but I did

Good. Sometimes we don't laugh with each other much here. I'm as guilty, or more so, than most

domer76
06-20-2015, 05:02 PM
What did that accomplish? Smoking continues, largely unabated.
You sure about that?

magicmike
06-20-2015, 05:06 PM
What did that accomplish? Smoking continues, largely unabated.

Wrong. Smoking is at an all time low.

magicmike
06-20-2015, 05:09 PM
What did that accomplish? Smoking continues, largely unabated.


You sure about that?

As a nurse I knew this one too.

http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p1126-adult-smoking.html

domer76
06-20-2015, 05:16 PM
That is great so what will they do? They will close down the factories in the USA and build them off shore. You liberals are idiots, Guns are not created to kill people they are created to protect people. Like Green arrow said put and gun on a table for 100 years and see if it ever kills someone all by itself.

Cars kill more people in a month and guns do in a year. Many people use them around the world for Car Bombs why not sue them too?

let me guess, you feel that if there were no guns in the hands of law abiding citizens the world would be a better place.

How in the fuck are you going to "protect" yourself with a gun? Throw it at them? Jesus!

The car to gun analogy fails and fails miserably every time. But you barrel strokers keep coming back to the same shitful attempt. Cars are intended to transport things and are a basic necessity of life these days. Guns are intended to shoot things, including people, and many western societies do quite nicely without them.

Green Arrow's pissant "inanimate object" is nothing more than a variant of the same apologetic gunstroker crap. I'll repeat my response. Meth also never killed anyone.

Green Arrow
06-20-2015, 05:24 PM
How in the fuck are you going to "protect" yourself with a gun? Throw it at them? Jesus!

The car to gun analogy fails and fails miserably every time. But you barrel strokers keep coming back to the same shitful attempt. Cars are intended to transport things and are a basic necessity of life these days. Guns are intended to shoot things, including people, and many western societies do quite nicely without them.

Green Arrow's pissant "inanimate object" is nothing more than a variant of the same apologetic gunstroker crap. I'll repeat my response. Meth also never killed anyone.

And again with your terrible assumptions. Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

I'm not a "gunstroker." My interest in guns is pretty well limited to a once-or-twice-a-year trip to the shooting range to shoot clay pigeons, and I do it because my friends enjoy it. Otherwise, I don't really give a shit. I find guns terribly uncivilized and brutish.

However, I also prefer to approach things rationally. The simple fact of the matter is that people die of various causes every day, and there's absolutely zero logical, rational reason to think that eliminating guns will magically make everyone that wants to kill someone sit down and say, "Gosh darn it, if only guns were legal, I could totally kill that guy/those people! But, shucks, guns are illegal, guess I can't kill them now."

Timothy McVeigh wanted to kill people, so he made a bomb. Four members of the KKK wanted to kill some blacks in 1963, so they made a bomb and blew up a church, killing four little black girls. In 1958, white supremacists wanted to send a message to Atlanta's Jewish community, so they made a bomb and blew up their synagogue.

Green Arrow
06-20-2015, 05:25 PM
Wrong. Smoking is at an all time low.

It dropped 3% and it's still high in certain groups. When it's been eliminated, let me know.

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 05:26 PM
Richard Pryor poured lighter fluid all over himself and lit it on fire. There's always a way.

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 05:28 PM
How in the $#@! are you going to "protect" yourself with a gun? Throw it at them? Jesus!

The car to gun analogy fails and fails miserably every time. But you barrel strokers keep coming back to the same $#@!ful attempt. Cars are intended to transport things and are a basic necessity of life these days. Guns are intended to shoot things, including people, and many western societies do quite nicely without them.

Green Arrow's pissant "inanimate object" is nothing more than a variant of the same apologetic gunstroker crap. I'll repeat my response. Meth also never killed anyone.

You can make a gun with a 3D printer, are you going to stop that . And it is not hard to make bullets with a small metal lathe that you can buy at sear.

And of course there is over 300 million guns in the USA What are you going to do with those, come and take them from people?

What would you say that the acceptable losses from that action would be a million civilians and law officers?

About half of the guns sold in the USA today are imported. And guns are not designed to shoot people, the companies that did not settle won that law suit.

If you want to stop gun violence then you will go after the criminals that use guns. which Obama does not, and stop harassing the law abiding citizens that have only the intention of protecting themselves.

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 05:30 PM
And again with your terrible assumptions. Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

I'm not a "gunstroker." My interest in guns is pretty well limited to a once-or-twice-a-year trip to the shooting range to shoot clay pigeons, and I do it because my friends enjoy it. Otherwise, I don't really give a $#@!. I find guns terribly uncivilized and brutish.

However, I also prefer to approach things rationally. The simple fact of the matter is that people die of various causes every day, and there's absolutely zero logical, rational reason to think that eliminating guns will magically make everyone that wants to kill someone sit down and say, "Gosh darn it, if only guns were legal, I could totally kill that guy/those people! But, shucks, guns are illegal, guess I can't kill them now."

Timothy McVeigh wanted to kill people, so he made a bomb. Four members of the KKK wanted to kill some blacks in 1963, so they made a bomb and blew up a church, killing four little black girls. In 1958, white supremacists wanted to send a message to Atlanta's Jewish community, so they made a bomb and blew up their synagogue.

put yourself down for POTD!

MisterVeritis
06-20-2015, 05:34 PM
What did that accomplish? Smoking continues, largely unabated.
It enriched the democratic trial lawyers.

domer76
06-20-2015, 05:48 PM
Richard Pryor poured lighter fluid all over himself and lit it on fire. There's always a way.

Some are just easier. Guns are one of the easiest. At least in the US

domer76
06-20-2015, 05:50 PM
And again with your terrible assumptions. Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

I'm not a "gunstroker." My interest in guns is pretty well limited to a once-or-twice-a-year trip to the shooting range to shoot clay pigeons, and I do it because my friends enjoy it. Otherwise, I don't really give a shit. I find guns terribly uncivilized and brutish.

However, I also prefer to approach things rationally. The simple fact of the matter is that people die of various causes every day, and there's absolutely zero logical, rational reason to think that eliminating guns will magically make everyone that wants to kill someone sit down and say, "Gosh darn it, if only guns were legal, I could totally kill that guy/those people! But, shucks, guns are illegal, guess I can't kill them now."

Timothy McVeigh wanted to kill people, so he made a bomb. Four members of the KKK wanted to kill some blacks in 1963, so they made a bomb and blew up a church, killing four little black girls. In 1958, white supremacists wanted to send a message to Atlanta's Jewish community, so they made a bomb and blew up their synagogue.

Wow. Three bombings you've mentioned since 1958. How many mass shootings did Obama say have happened since he came into office? 14? That's just the MASS shootings. Add 30,000 or so on top of that every year

Green Arrow
06-20-2015, 05:57 PM
Wow. Three bombings you've mentioned since 1958. How many mass shootings did Obama say have happened since he came into office? 14? That's just the MASS shootings. Add 30,000 or so on top of that every year

There's been more than three, actually, but it's irrelevant. The point has already been proven. Making a homemade bomb is not difficult or terribly expensive, and you can kill a lot more people a lot easier with a bomb than with a gun.

Again, your single-minded focus on guns is irrational. There are twice as many guns as there are people in this nation, and yet only 30,000 people a year (.01% of our population) are killed by guns. If guns were really the problem, there would be a lot more people killed.

If you want a rational solution to the issue, focus on mental health. Our mental health care is virtually nonexistent in this country, and the one thing all these mass shootings have in common is they were all committed by people with mental defects who belong in asylums, not on the streets.

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 07:18 PM
Some are just easier. Guns are one of the easiest. At least in the US

Yes, many people want to live in a world where guns do not exist at all.

I want to live in a world where if the bad guy has a gun, so do I.

zelmo1234
06-20-2015, 07:29 PM
Wow. Three bombings you've mentioned since 1958. How many mass shootings did Obama say have happened since he came into office? 14? That's just the MASS shootings. Add 30,000 or so on top of that every year

That is because they did not mention all of the bombings you had the black panthers, the KKK, the weather underground, the una bomber. and lets not forget boston and the twin towers + the pentagon And of course they had access to guns.

Lets just take the last few that I can remember and see what would have happened if they had not been gun free zones.

Sandy hook? if they had teachers that were practicing concealed Carry?

Fort Hood, what if the soldiers would have been able to carry their side arm?

The Colorado theatre ?

What if Gabby Gifford had an armed body guard?

What if the Pastor Had a Gun?

I am sure that there are others but they all have one thing in common. Gun Free zone.

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 08:26 PM
If she did, the outcome couldn't have been worse. No one did anything so foolish as you suggest, yet the worst case scenario happened.

The best case could have been if Mr. Roof didn't have a gun in the first place.

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 08:28 PM
Gun companies don't kill people, people kill people.
True, just that sometimes people use guns to kill people.

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 08:31 PM
That is great so what will they do? They will close down the factories in the USA and build them off shore. You liberals are idiots, Guns are not created to kill people they are created to protect people. Like Green arrow said put and gun on a table for 100 years and see if it ever kills someone all by itself.

Cars kill more people in a month and guns do in a year. Many people use them around the world for Car Bombs why not sue them too?

let me guess, you feel that if there were no guns in the hands of law abiding citizens the world would be a better place.

All things being equal, cars primary purpose are to transport people and not to kill them; guns on the other hand are designed with the intent to kill or injure other living things.

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 08:32 PM
The best case could have been if Mr. Roof didn't have a gun in the first place.

Better than that even, if guns never existed in the first place.

But they do. And he had one. That's where they went wrong.

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 08:32 PM
It dropped 3% and it's still high in certain groups. When it's been eliminated, let me know.
When the last one dies from lung cancer or COPD, i'm sure someone will let you know.

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 08:35 PM
It enriched the democratic trial lawyers.

And keeps hospitals packed full of cancer patients and funeral homes with stiffs. :)

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 08:36 PM
Yes, many people want to live in a world where guns do not exist at all.

I want to live in a world where if the bad guy has a gun, so do I.

No one told you to live in a bad neighborhood. :)

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 08:38 PM
Better than that even, if guns never existed in the first place.

But they do. And he had one. That's where they went wrong.

That wouldn't be the best case since people needed guns to hunt animals to survive (and in some cases, still do depending on where you live), so that theory of yours is a wrong one.

domer76
06-20-2015, 08:55 PM
There's been more than three, actually, but it's irrelevant. The point has already been proven. Making a homemade bomb is not difficult or terribly expensive, and you can kill a lot more people a lot easier with a bomb than with a gun.

Again, your single-minded focus on guns is irrational. There are twice as many guns as there are people in this nation, and yet only 30,000 people a year (.01% of our population) are killed by guns. If guns were really the problem, there would be a lot more people killed.

If you want a rational solution to the issue, focus on mental health. Our mental health care is virtually nonexistent in this country, and the one thing all these mass shootings have in common is they were all committed by people with mental defects who belong in asylums, not on the streets.

We don't have a corner on crazies in this country but we do on the number of guns.

Why do you keep harping on the insignificance of 30,000 a year, year in and year out?

Re: bombs. They CAN kill more, but they DON'T, do they?

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 09:00 PM
No one told you to live in a bad neighborhood. :)

Did these murders happen in a bad neighborhood?

Maybe that explains it.

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 09:01 PM
Did these murders happen in a bad neighborhood?

Maybe that explains it.

No, not them, you.

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 09:03 PM
No, not them, you.

These murders didn't happen where I live.

But we can make this thread about me, if you like.

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 09:06 PM
These murders didn't happen where I live.

But we can make this thread about me, if you like.

You're the one who wants to have the right to arm yourself if you want. From your post: "Yes, many people want to live in a world where guns do not exist at all.

I want to live in a world where if the bad guy has a gun, so do I."

The thread isn't about you, just a comment you made and my response to it.

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 09:11 PM
You're the one who wants to have the right to arm yourself if you want. From your post: "Yes, many people want to live in a world where guns do not exist at all.

I want to live in a world where if the bad guy has a gun, so do I."

The thread isn't about you, just a comment you made and my response to it.

I do want, and I do arm myself.

Just in case you've got any ideas.

Green Arrow
06-20-2015, 09:16 PM
When the last one dies from lung cancer or COPD, i'm sure someone will let you know.

Do you have a point?

Green Arrow
06-20-2015, 09:18 PM
We don't have a corner on crazies in this country but we do on the number of guns.

Why do you keep harping on the insignificance of 30,000 a year, year in and year out?

Because it's miniscule compared to the number of people killed in various other completely avoidable ways. The point isn't that the deaths are insignificant, the point is your single-minded focus on guns is irrational and illogical.


Re: bombs. They CAN kill more, but they DON'T, do they?

Yes, actually, they do. A single person opening fire in a crowded mall can maybe kill five people tops before security or the police take him down. A single person setting off a bomb in his backpack in that same mall can kill hundreds.

MisterVeritis
06-20-2015, 09:37 PM
And keeps hospitals packed full of cancer patients and funeral homes with stiffs. :)
Wasn't it you who said we are all going to die anyway?

MisterVeritis
06-20-2015, 09:40 PM
Because it's miniscule compared to the number of people killed in various other completely avoidable ways. The point isn't that the deaths are insignificant, the point is your single-minded focus on guns is irrational and illogical.
It is a fixation. Some people fixate on genitals. For domer a gun is the next best thing. It is long and hard and cylindrical.

And I think it frightens him.

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 10:48 PM
Do you have a point?

Yes I do. People will generally continue to smoke until they die from lung cancer or from COPD related issues caused by smoking. If you don't smoke, you greatly reduce your chances of being diagnosed with lung cancer and likewise reduce your chances of dieing from COPD related issues.

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 10:49 PM
Wasn't it you who said we are all going to die anyway?

Yes, I'm the one. :)

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 10:49 PM
I do want, and I do arm myself.

Just in case you've got any ideas.

Nope; no ideas, just reminding of what you said in your earlier post. :)

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 10:53 PM
Nope; no ideas, just reminding of what you said in your earlier post. :)

Still? This thread is definitely about me now.

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 11:08 PM
Still? This thread is definitely about me now.


Do yourself a favor and do not respond to any further posts of mine on this thread ok? :)

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 11:19 PM
Do yourself a favor and do not respond to any further posts of mine on this thread ok? :)

You talking about me?

gamewell45
06-20-2015, 11:26 PM
You talking about me?

Nope.

Susan B. Anthony
06-20-2015, 11:28 PM
Nope.

Your language is a strange one. Perhaps we can work on it together. Would you like that?

Tahuyaman
06-21-2015, 08:55 AM
Yes I do. People will generally continue to smoke until they die from lung cancer or from COPD related issues caused by smoking.

I don't think that is an accurate statement. There are millions and millions of people out there who are ex smokers and quit long before they developed health problems.

I dont think its accurate to say that smokers generally continue until it finally kills them.

Tahuyaman
06-21-2015, 08:56 AM
Still? This thread is definitely about me now.


Do yourself a favor and do not respond to any further posts of mine on this thread ok? :)


You talking about me?


Nope.

that was an odd exchange.

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 11:13 AM
True, just that sometimes people use guns to kill people.

And sometimes they use fertilizer and Diesel fuel?

I am pretty sure that the Red head is trying to use Bacon! :) (she always cooks too much of it)

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 11:15 AM
All things being equal, cars primary purpose are to transport people and not to kill them; guns on the other hand are designed with the intent to kill or injure other living things.

No they are designed to send a projectile (bullet or shot) down range. I might be at a clay pigeon, a paper target, could be a game animal, or you could be protecting yourself and your family.

Just like a car the use is up to you.

domer76
06-21-2015, 11:16 AM
Because it's miniscule compared to the number of people killed in various other completely avoidable ways. The point isn't that the deaths are insignificant, the point is your single-minded focus on guns is irrational and illogical.



Yes, actually, they do. A single person opening fire in a crowded mall can maybe kill five people tops before security or the police take him down. A single person setting off a bomb in his backpack in that same mall can kill hundreds.

Miserable failure again. You went right back to the hypothetical CAN kill more, but didn't address the reality of whether they DO kill more.

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 11:26 AM
We don't have a corner on crazies in this country but we do on the number of guns.

Why do you keep harping on the insignificance of 30,000 a year, year in and year out?

Re: bombs. They CAN kill more, but they DON'T, do they?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/09/1208004/-Historical-Trends-in-Firearm-Homicides-and-Gunshot-Injuries-and-Deaths-1981-2011#

One thing to remember is that not all 30,000 are homicides actually only about a third are. Suicide is a huge portion of that, and then you have your accidentals, which is a very small number

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 11:30 AM
The real number of concern in the USA is the Homicide number which had fallen to under 11,000 in 09

The mistake that the left makes it that people would not be killed if there were not guns. and people would not commit suicide if there were no guns.

While there may be some lives saved, the number would be much smaller than the total number.

And while any life that is saved would be a great thing, you have to take into account the lives that are already saved using guns as a tool of protection.

gamewell45
06-21-2015, 11:34 AM
No they are designed to send a projectile (bullet or shot) down range. I might be at a clay pigeon, a paper target, could be a game animal, or you could be protecting yourself and your family.

Just like a car the use is up to you.

Have to disagree with you Zel; lets be real, we all know what the primary purpose of guns are. Yes some do use them only for target practice or a game animal, but they are designed to send a projectile (sounds like NRA talking points) to kill or maim a living creature be it human or animal.

Green Arrow
06-21-2015, 11:58 AM
Miserable failure again. You went right back to the hypothetical CAN kill more, but didn't address the reality of whether they DO kill more.

No, actually, I pretty clearly stated that they do. Nevermind your irrational hatred of hypotheticals.

domer76
06-21-2015, 12:03 PM
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/09/1208004/-Historical-Trends-in-Firearm-Homicides-and-Gunshot-Injuries-and-Deaths-1981-2011#

One thing to remember is that not all 30,000 are homicides actually only about a third are. Suicide is a huge portion of that, and then you have your accidentals, which is a very small number

I never said they were all homicides. I said 30,000 unnecessary deaths

domer76
06-21-2015, 12:24 PM
The real number of concern in the USA is the Homicide number which had fallen to under 11,000 in 09

The mistake that the left makes it that people would not be killed if there were not guns. and people would not commit suicide if there were no guns.

While there may be some lives saved, the number would be much smaller than the total number.

And while any life that is saved would be a great thing, you have to take into account the lives that are already saved using guns as a tool of protection.

You misinterpret many things. Nobody, at least me, ever said people would not be killed nor commit suicide. Guns merely make both easier, more immediate and more effective.

The "would be" is nothing more than the pure speculation that I continually point out.

domer76
06-21-2015, 12:25 PM
No, actually, I pretty clearly stated that they do. Nevermind your irrational hatred of hypotheticals.

Bombs in the US kill more people? Show me the stats where bombs kill 30,000 people a year. I'll wait.

Green Arrow
06-21-2015, 12:27 PM
Bombs in the US kill more people? Show me the stats where bombs kill 30,000 people a year. I'll wait.

Obfuscation.

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 12:40 PM
I never said they were all homicides. I said 30,000 unnecessary deaths

But you are still assuming that all would be alive. Remember the What's and If's that you did not want to use.

Just saying

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 12:43 PM
Here is the point.

So lets just say that making guns illegal and getting them off the street would have 90% of all of those people

There are over 300 million guns in the USA. We have to collect them. Some are not going to want to give them up!

What do those that think banning guns is a good Idea feel would be acceptable losses for the collection of those firearms?

domer76
06-21-2015, 01:10 PM
Obfuscation.
Are you dense? You stated bombs kill more people than guns. I merely asked for stats.

I'll help you save some face here and let you sit on the hypothetical that they CAN, but DON'T. You can now just let your mistake go. No need to thank me.

donttread
06-21-2015, 01:11 PM
I do not blame a man of God for banning guns in his church. On the other hand this shit only happens in advertised gun free zones

domer76
06-21-2015, 01:12 PM
But you are still assuming that all would be alive. Remember the What's and If's that you did not want to use.

Just saying

I never said that either. Why do you guys have the need to continually make shit up?

domer76
06-21-2015, 01:15 PM
Here is the point.

So lets just say that making guns illegal and getting them off the street would have 90% of all of those people

There are over 300 million guns in the USA. We have to collect them. Some are not going to want to give them up!

What do those that think banning guns is a good Idea feel would be acceptable losses for the collection of those firearms?

I believe there have been buy back programs around, haven't there?

domer76
06-21-2015, 01:16 PM
I do not blame a man of God for banning guns in his church. On the other hand this shit only happens in advertised gun free zones

The "gun free zone" shit is just as bogus as "guns don't kill people..." bullshit.

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 01:54 PM
Have to disagree with you Zel; lets be real, we all know what the primary purpose of guns are. Yes some do use them only for target practice or a game animal, but they are designed to send a projectile (sounds like NRA talking points) to kill or maim a living creature be it human or animal.

And I think that this is part of the Issue. The non Gun or folks, have very little knowledge of what people actually do with guns.

I went for a Round of Sporting clays this morning with about 50 other people. The range 3 miles form my house has something going on every day. In MI alone there are 750,000 Firearm deer hunters. not counting all of the other wildlife species that are hunted. I don't even think I can count how many shooting sports there are that involve everything form state of the art defensive weapons to Flint lock muzzleloaders

And because people don't understand this, they have the wrong Idea of what Guns are for. Here is just one example. The sport is called 3 gun, It involves a combat pistol, battle rifle, and a defensive shotgun. It is just about as much fun as you can have shooting guns.

The problem is, most anti gun people will not go the extra mile to find out what is really gong on. And when they do? About half of the time they become gun nuts too

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 02:03 PM
The "gun free zone" $#@! is just as bogus as "guns don't kill people..." bull$#@!.

http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/

The Gun Free Zone is not Bull Shit. There is only one on this list that I can be sure is not a Gun Free zone. These people want to make a name for themselves, they can't do it if there is another gun on site. so they seek out places where they will be un opposed.

domer76
06-21-2015, 02:44 PM
http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/

The Gun Free Zone is not Bull Shit. There is only one on this list that I can be sure is not a Gun Free zone. These people want to make a name for themselves, they can't do it if there is another gun on site. so they seek out places where they will be un opposed.

That reference is meaningless for the purpose of your point. More made up stuff, Z

MisterVeritis
06-21-2015, 04:18 PM
Have to disagree with you Zel; lets be real, we all know what the primary purpose of guns are. Yes some do use them only for target practice or a game animal, but they are designed to send a projectile (sounds like NRA talking points) to kill or maim a living creature be it human or animal.
Apparently we all don't.

Weapons equalize us. If you weigh 250 pounds and spent your youth in prison exercising every day you have to wonder if my .357 magnum is going to hurt you if you try to use your superiority in muscle mass to harm me. If you are an unaccountable tyrant in one of the nearly 500 independent agencies you might have to wonder if calling my home made puddle a wetland and preventing me from using my property might end in revolution.

Weapons are good. Every responsible adult should own many and carry at least one when possible. Tyrants in government should fear its armed citizens. Not the other way around.

MisterVeritis
06-21-2015, 04:21 PM
I do not blame a man of God for banning guns in his church. On the other hand this $#@! only happens in advertised gun free zones
In this case he was part of the democratic state apparatus who insisted that people who attend church must be victims. As a senator he made it happen. The justice of the situation is the law he passed so that others might be harmed set the stage for his murder. Now that is justice.

It is time to repeal that idiotic law.

Susan B. Anthony
06-21-2015, 04:58 PM
In this case he was part of the democratic state apparatus who insisted that people who attend church must be victims. As a senator he made it happen. The justice of the situation is the law he passed so that others might be harmed set the stage for his murder. Now that is justice.

It is time to repeal that idiotic law.He died for something he believed in.

gamewell45
06-21-2015, 06:10 PM
Apparently we all don't.

I agree with you.

Many really don't understand what they are for and fail to admit it, at least publicly. They hide behind the facade of the 2nd amendment while claiming that the mentally ill and convicted felons should have access to weapons. In the meantime, they choose to live in dangerous neighborhoods where they feel they cannot leave their homes without having a .50 machine gun strapped to their chests. They are only fooling themselves.

I have no issue with people having weapons to defend themselves and their property, but believe that some standards need to be in place on a federal level for responsible gun ownership.

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 06:44 PM
That reference is meaningless for the purpose of your point. More made up stuff, Z

Wait, Wait, Wait. The link shows that these shootings happened, in gun free zones. You lying abut it still will not make it true.

MisterVeritis
06-21-2015, 06:45 PM
I agree with you.
Awesome. Let's see how far gamewell goes down the rabbithole...


Many really don't understand what they are for and fail to admit it, at least publicly. They hide behind the facade of the 2nd amendment while claiming that the mentally ill and convicted felons should have access to weapons.
This is the first kook statement. I suppose we didn't get very far. More straw please!


In the meantime, they choose to live in dangerous neighborhoods where they feel they cannot leave their homes without having a .50 machine gun strapped to their chests. They are only fooling themselves.
More sheer idiocy. Why am I not surprised?


I have no issue with people having weapons to defend themselves and their property, but believe that some standards need to be in place on a federal level for responsible gun ownership.
Right. All left wing kook stuff. We can keep our weapons until the federal government sends heavily armed men and women to get them.

Why do you lie? It is unbecoming.

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 06:51 PM
I agree with you.

Many really don't understand what they are for and fail to admit it, at least publicly. They hide behind the facade of the 2nd amendment while claiming that the mentally ill and convicted felons should have access to weapons. In the meantime, they choose to live in dangerous neighborhoods where they feel they cannot leave their homes without having a .50 machine gun strapped to their chests. They are only fooling themselves.

I have no issue with people having weapons to defend themselves and their property, but believe that some standards need to be in place on a federal level for responsible gun ownership.

That is great that you feel that way. The mentally Ill and Convicted Felons can't pass a back ground check so it is illegal for them to own a gun. Has been for decades. So we have that covered? Know What?

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 06:56 PM
Awesome. Let's see how far gamewell goes down the rabbithole...

This is the first kook statement. I suppose we didn't get very far. More straw please!

More sheer idiocy. Why am I not surprised?

Right. All left wing kook stuff. We can keep our weapons until the federal government sends heavily armed men and women to get them.

Why do you lie? It is unbecoming.

What the left really does not want to admit is several things.

#1 the reason for the 2nd amendment was to prevent the Federal government from taking away the rights of the people. Not for hunting and shooting sports or even personal protection.

#2 The all important Back Ground check is the law of the land and in all but a few states it applies to gun shows as well.

#3 Convicted Felons and the mentally ill can not possess a firearm legally

#4 the areas with the highest levels of gun violence tend to be the areas that Democrats and Liberals created for the poor to live in so they did not live near there own homes.

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 06:59 PM
I believe there have been buy back programs around, haven't there?

Yes I said that most would turn them in, What about the ones that will not About 27 million people. How do you get them to give up there guns, and if you intend on forcefully taking them? What are the acceptable losses 2 million, 3 million?

what is the number that you can live with?

exotix
06-21-2015, 07:19 PM
Wait, Wait, Wait. The link shows that these shootings happened, in gun free zones. You lying abut it still will not make it true.
No sweat, simply start massacring NRA members in church so we can see which one's pack'n will survive.

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 07:23 PM
No sweat, simply start massacring NRA members in church so we can see which one's pack'n will survive.

At least you are willing to admit that it would be a massacre! The others seem to thing that everyone thinks like they do.

So you are saying that you are OK with 5 million civilian deaths (that is the number of NRA members) And figuring that at least some of them will take someone out with them we can add 1.5 million on the police and military side

So would it be safe to say that you are OK with 6.5 million deaths to disarm the US law abiding citizens?

exotix
06-21-2015, 07:27 PM
At least you are willing to admit that it would be a massacre! The others seem to thing that everyone thinks like they do.

So you are saying that you are OK with 5 million civilian deaths (that is the number of NRA members) And figuring that at least some of them will take someone out with them we can add 1.5 million on the police and military side

So would it be safe to say that you are OK with 6.5 million deaths to disarm the US law abiding citizens?I'm merely saying that the dude's who massacre don't know who's pack'n or not ... but then again they don't need too ... they have the draw when they ambush ... that's the beauty of firearms ... especially assault weapons designed to blow the heads off of men, women, children and kindergartners.

gamewell45
06-21-2015, 07:32 PM
Awesome. Let's see how far gamewell goes down the rabbithole...


This is the first kook statement. I suppose we didn't get very far. More straw please!


More sheer idiocy. Why am I not surprised?


Right. All left wing kook stuff. We can keep our weapons until the federal government sends heavily armed men and women to get them.

Why do you lie? It is unbecoming.

Wonderful. Attempting to rationalize with you is like trying to have reasonable discourse with my mother-in-law. Both you and I will have to agree to disagree on this thread.

gamewell45
06-21-2015, 07:33 PM
That is great that you feel that way. The mentally Ill and Convicted Felons can't pass a back ground check so it is illegal for them to own a gun. Has been for decades. So we have that covered? Know What?

Zel, apparently not since they are still obtaining them and using them to commit crimes.

MisterVeritis
06-21-2015, 07:35 PM
Wonderful. Attempting to rationalize with you is like trying to have reasonable discourse with my mother-in-law. Both you and I will have to agree to disagree on this thread.
It would help if you were rational. You are not. I get it. this is a religious thing for you.

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 10:08 PM
I'm merely saying that the dude's who massacre don't know who's pack'n or not ... but then again they don't need too ... they have the draw when they ambush ... that's the beauty of firearms ... especially assault weapons designed to blow the heads off of men, women, children and kindergartners.

Here is a great question for you, which one of these rounds is the nasty assault weapon round and which one is the most popular deer hunting round?

http://real-hunting.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/223-30-061.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Freal-hunting.com%2Fwhy-does-anyone-need-an-ar-15%2F223-30-06-2%2F&ei=pXuHVarwNYmqyQS6vIuQBQ&bvm=bv.96339352,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNF4rXKgQ0DzkMXEX_Iu2UvFvJb4jw&ust=1435028769797528)

Oh and in the church to kill 9 people, the shooter reloaded 5 times. I can come to a shooting position from concealed in less that 1.5 seconds.

gettit
06-21-2015, 10:08 PM
only an idiot or weakling would let some "rule" keep him/her from carrying a pistol, anyway. Pass all the damned laws against it that you want. I'll still carry and take my chances in court. It's a good bet that one the 12 on the jury will see things my way. A good enough bet, anyway, for me to take the very small risk that I'll be charged with weapons-possession.

The 223 is rapidly becoming recognized as being quite capable of taking deer, under 30-30 type conditions. the power and range of the 30-06 is rarely needed for taking deer.

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 10:12 PM
Zel, apparently not since they are still obtaining them and using them to commit crimes.

Now you are getting it! You can't stop people from illegally getting a gun. For example the father of the SC shooter gave him a gun that he could not legally obtain on his own.

So now that we know that you can't stop criminals from getting a gun through back ground checks and they don't seem to give a crap about Gun Free zones.

Don't you think at the very least we can let the good guy have a gun too?

gettit
06-21-2015, 10:15 PM
90_% of gunowners would surrender all their guns without even a whimper, if a federal law against possession were passed and serious enforcement ensued. 9% might BURY ONE gun, but they'd do nothing else. the ONE %, tho, THOSE, you'd better worry about. and 1% of 70 million gunowners is 700,000 people. If even 1% of that 1 % does the efficient thing in the way of resisting you, there won't BE a US economy or govt anymore.

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 10:21 PM
only an idiot or weakling would let some "rule" keep him/her from carrying a pistol, anyway. Pass all the $#@!ed laws against it that you want. I'll still carry and take my chances in court. It's a good bet that one the 12 on the jury will see things my way. A good enough bet, anyway, for me to take the very small risk that I'll be charged with weapons-possession.

The 223 is rapidly becoming recognized as being quite capable of taking deer, under 30-30 type conditions. the power and range of the 30-06 is rarely needed for taking deer.

I was just pointing out that people like Exotix, don't have a clue what they are talking about when it comes to what they have named an Assault weapon, They are filled full of BS by the anti gun crowd and thing that the 5.56 is an anti aircraft round.

Then they have NO clue that FMJ ammunitions are not state of the art.

exotix
06-21-2015, 10:24 PM
Here is a great question for you, which one of these rounds is the nasty assault weapon round and which one is the most popular deer hunting round?

http://real-hunting.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/223-30-061.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Freal-hunting.com%2Fwhy-does-anyone-need-an-ar-15%2F223-30-06-2%2F&ei=pXuHVarwNYmqyQS6vIuQBQ&bvm=bv.96339352,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNF4rXKgQ0DzkMXEX_Iu2UvFvJb4jw&ust=1435028769797528)

Oh and in the church to kill 9 people, the shooter reloaded 5 times. I can come to a shooting position from concealed in less that 1.5 seconds.Why?

Did you think you think you could hide from the splinters (shrapnel) from a church pew going through your body and head because he missed by a foot from a round like that as the reason for your brass ball braggadocio ?

zelmo1234
06-21-2015, 10:32 PM
Why?

Did you think you think you could hide from the splinters (shrapnel) from a church pew going through your body and head because he missed by a foot from a round like that as the reason for your brass ball braggadocio ?

What makes you think that you are out of the fight if you get hit with the bullet or Shrapnel?

What these shooters all have in common is they are not well trained. And we can be thankful for that. 10 min in a gun free zone with a trained shooter and 5 magazines full of ammunition could get really ugly.

And what you really don't understand is how hard it is to keep your head when someone is shooting at you.

One of the things that we will do in training programs is wear a vest with sensor on it. I the shooter hits one of those, it makes and awful noise and you can't defend yourself. but if it doesn't you are allow to shoot back with wax loads that are not going to kill you but the hurt like hell.

You would be amazed at how many really good shooters can't even hit you at 7 yards when then know there is a chance that you will be shooting back!

And last if you have ever been in a building when a gun goes off, you can't imagine how bad your ears are ringing, that in itself can be hard to deal with for people that have never had it happen to them.

So you really need to find out just what happens in a gunfight because you are once again showing your dependence on false talking points.

gettit
06-21-2015, 10:40 PM
what happens is that the DEFENDER does a lot of missing, and the hits that he DOES get are often poor hits, too. Let's be factual about such things, ok? Just because some guy does manage to get off a shot or 2 at the bad guy does not mean that he suffices at the job!

ten minutes? Why would you need even ONE minute to get a solid hit with each of 5 mags, (say 75 rds pistol)? it's pretty easy to get 2 hits per second (on multiple targets, one each) and pretty easy to swap mags (from concealment) in 3 seconds, too. top men are twice that fast.

Mac-7
06-22-2015, 06:32 AM
No sweat, simply start massacring NRA members in church so we can see which one's pack'n will survive.

Why, when the shooter can just go any meeting of gun grabbing liberals and not have to worry about getting shot?