Question for Everyone

[Cigar]

Are the occasional mass-murders and the record numbers in gun-related homicides, compared to Canada, Europe and just about everywhere else on the Planet Earth, a reasonable price to be paid, so everyone can enjoy their constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms?

Yes or No?

[Mainecoons]

As usual, you start with a false premise:


compared to Canada, Europe and just about everywhere else on the Planet Earth

See this reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

If you study the charts, first thing you notice is that the U.S. is way down the list when compared to even Mexico, and very closely grouped with a number of European countries.

There's a cultural and racial culture aspect to this as well. The very homogeneous countries tend to have the lowest rates.

In the U.S., the murder rates of racial minorities are much higher than those of whites.

Homicide Offense Rate by Race (1976-2000):

White 5.1 per 100,000
Blacks 39.3 per 100,000
Others: 5.2 per 100,000

Homicide Victim Rate by Race: (1976-2000):

Whites: 5.0 per 100,000
Blacks: 31.9 per 100,000
Others: 4.9 per 100,000

Homicide Rate by Gender:

Male: 16.7 per 100,000
Female: 2.2 per 100,000

Source: US Department of Justice
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/hmrt.htm#longterm

Other references show that the murder rate of Hispanics is roughly double that of whites which raises the figures for the latter. Factor out both races, and the murder rate for European U.S. whites is not way out of line from many Europeans.

This is the trap you fall into when you take one incident, or blended statistical data, and try to generalize to make your favored conclusion.

There have now been a number of studies which show that, at least in the U.S., higher gun ownership equates with lower crime rates. I wonder what the outcome would have been here if one or more skilled sportsmen in this audience would have had their glocks with them.

BTW, I believe that Chicago has pretty restrictive firearm laws, New York does for certain. Looking at the crime and murder rates in these two places, how is that working for you?

[coolwalker]

What a slanted quetion. Grow up and give it another try.

[Cigar]

As expected ... "Yes"

[Cigar]

BTW, I believe that Chicago has pretty restrictive firearm laws, New York does for certain. Looking at the crime and murder rates in these two places, how is that working for you?

Do you live in Chicago?

[Mainecoons]

As expected, "no effective defense of false starting premise."

:grin:

[Cigar]

As expected, "no effective defense of false starting premise."

:grin:


It's my Thread ... :)

[Mainecoons]

And your false premise. Enjoy, just don't expect smarter and better educated people to swallow your BS.

[Cigar]

And your false premise. Enjoy, just don't expect smarter and better educated people to swallow your BS.



Wrong ... I've never asked you to Swallow before ... why would I start now? :smiley_ROFLMAO:

[bajisima]

Canada has recently had several shooting incidents and look at Norway, they have uber strict gun laws yet they had one of the worst mass shootings ever. Gun control doesn't work.

[Cigar]

Canada has recently had several shooting incidents and look at Norway, they have uber strict gun laws yet they had one of the worst mass shootings ever. Gun control doesn't work.

Ok ...see yea next Mass Killing

[MMC]

Ok ...see yea next Mass Killing

Why is he going to be in Chicago next week? :laugh: We had 28 shot over the weekend 3 Dead. :angry:

[Cigar]

Why is he going to be in Chicago next week? :laugh: We had 28 shot over the weekend 3 Dead. :angry:

WhaDayea doing about it?

[MMC]

WhaDayea doing about it?

Me, I am watching Jesse Jackson grab some headlines over the Aurora Shooting while avoiding questions of the Shootings and black on black crime here. Jackson spouted off some stats about homicides.....then got smashed due to him not including that the stat had the Suicide rates in it. :laugh:

What are we doing, we are trying to make people Like Jesse Jackson.....Irrelevant, Like he should be! :wink:

[Cigar]

Me, I am watching Jesse Jackson grab some headlines over the Aurora Shooting while avoiding questions of the Shootings and black on black crime here. Jackson spouted off some stats about homicides.....then got smashed due to him not including that the stat had the Suicide rates in it. :laugh:

What are we doing, we are trying to make people Like Jesse Jackson.....Irrelevant, Like he should be! :wink:

Nope ... I checked and it's not Jessie's week for Chicago Shootings.

It's Father Michael Pfleger turn.

[Captain Obvious]

I wonder why these "studies" don't focus on the rate of material crimes committed by illegal gun owners vs. the rate of material crimes committed by legal gun owners.

[MMC]

Nope ... I checked and it's not Jessie's week for Chicago Shootings.

It's Father Michael Pfleger turn.


Yeah Jesse is always elsewheres while trying to decieve Chicagoans he is part of them.

[Carygrant]

[QUOTE=Mainecoons;103770]As usual, you start with a false premise:
See this reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
If you study the charts, first thing you notice is that the U.S. is way down the list when compared to even Mexico, and very closely grouped with a number of European countries.QUOTE


I rather thought the so called Stats you referenced argued the OP's point . Totally .
I show the table for 2011 killings ( below ), using the bottom part , roughly from the US position through to the better performing countries .
Frankly the US position seems appalling --let's not worry about others that have even worse records . Let's compare the so called developed US with countries that appear to warrant such a description .
I see the US ( 4.8) some 296% worse than Canada , 390% worse than the UK . Right down to 593% worse than Germany and a monster 706% worse than little Norway .
Statistically , the US is alongside Ukraine and Thailand ---- WOW , and incredibly awful versus the likes of UK , Australia , Italy , Netherlands , Sweden Germany , Spain and Norway .
As for the strange explanation that the US figures are somehow redeemed because the bulk of killings are committed by members of immigrant groups ---- EFFING NONSENSE .
Do you think that other countries have no immigrants ?
Are these immigrants in the US not Americans ?
If there is an argument to support your opinion , you are still looking for it , IMHO .


Thailand 2011 5.2
Ukraine ---------5.2
US --------------4.8
Canada ---------1.62
UK --------------1.23
Australia --------1.16
Italy ------------0.87
Netherlands -----0.86
Sweden ---------0.86
Germany -------0.81
Spain -----------0.72
Norway ---------0.68

[coolwalker]

[QUOTE=Mainecoons;103770]As usual, you start with a false premise:

If there is an argument to support your opinion , you are still looking for it , IMHO .




You've never been humble in your life. You're English.

[Mainecoons]

Well Cary, check the population profile for Canada, which has a small percentage of minorities, and check back with us.

Besides which, it's too damn cold up there half the year to go out and shoot anyone. :grin: