Alternate History Ideas

[DeanSims]

This thread is for ideas for possible Alternte History Timelines. Any ideas are welcome!

[Peter1469]

Consider if Edward the Confessor defeated William the Conquerer at the Battle of Hastings- 1066.

[DeanSims]

That would screw England up forever and in turn of events, the USA, and then the entire world.

[Peter1469]

That would screw England up forever and in turn of events, the USA, and then the entire world.

That is why I brought it up!

[MMC]

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=I4796632999003017&pid=1.7&w=109&h=149&c=7&rs=1

Just think if Charles (the Hammer) Martel did not stuff Emir Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi and the Umayyads at the battle of Tours.....what the World would like! :undecided:

[Peter1469]

That is a good one too. I suppose in that case, the Europeans could have rallied for another battle. It is one of my favorite battles....

[Peter1469]

What if Rome never destroyed Carthage? How would the Middle East look today? I guess it depends on whether the Carthaginians embraced Islam or not. If not, the world would be very different today.

[MMC]

That is a good one too. I suppose in that case, the Europeans could have rallied for another battle. It is one of my favorite battles....


Here is a bit on it Pete. :wink:

Eve of ToursIt has been noted that Charles Martel could have pursued the wars against the Saxons—but he was determined to prepare for what he thought was a greater danger. Instead of concentrating on conquest to his east, he prepared for the storm gathering in the west. Well aware of the danger posed by the Umayyads after the Battle of Toulouse, in 721, he used the intervening years to consolidate his power, and gather and train the core of a veteran army that would defend Christianity.

The Umayyads were not aware, at that time, of the true strength of the Franks, or the fact that they were building a real army, not the typical barbarian hordes which had infested Europe after Rome's fall. They considered the Germanic tribes, including the Franks, simply barbarians and were not particularly concerned about them. The Arab Chronicles, the history of that age, show that awareness of the Franks as a growing military power came only after the Battle of Tours, when the Caliph expressed shock at his army's catastrophic defeat. Further, the Muslims had not bothered with the normal scouting of potential foes, for if they had, they surely would have noted Charles Martel as a force to be reckoned with. Martel's thorough domination of Europe from 717 on, and his sound defeat of all powers who contested his dominion, should have alerted the Moors that, not only was a real power rising from the ashes of the Western Roman Empire, but it was led by a truly gifted general. Thus, when they launched their great invasion of 732, they were not prepared for Martel and his Frankish army.

This, in retrospect, was a disastrous mistake. Emir Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi was a good general, but he made two mistakes: he failed to assess the strength of the Franks in advance of the invasion, assuming that they would not come to the aid of their Aquitanian cousins; and he failed to scout the movements of the Frankish army and Charles Martel. Had he done either, he would have curtailed his light horse ravaging throughout lower Gaul and marched at once, with his full power, against the Franks. This strategy would have nullified every advantage Charles had at Tours, as the invaders would have not been burdened with booty that played such a huge role in the battle. They would not been weakened in the battles they fought prior to Tours. (Although they lost relatively few men subduing Aquitane, the casualties they did suffer may have been significant at Tours).

Finally, the Umayyads would have bypassed weaker opponents, such as Odo, whom they could have dealt with later, while moving at once to force battle with the real power in Europe, and at least partially picked the battlefield. While some military historians point out that leaving enemies in one's rear is generally unwise, the Mongols proved that indirect attack and bypassing weaker foes to eliminate the strongest first was a devastatingly effective mode of invasion. In this case, those enemies posed virtually no danger, given the ease with which the Muslims destroyed them. The real danger was Charles, and the failure to scout Europe adequately proved fatal. Had Al Ghafiqi realized how thoroughly Martel had dominated Europe for 15 years, and how gifted a commander he was, he would not have allowed Charles Martel to pick the time and place the two powers would collide, which historians agree was pivotal to his victory.

http://www.biographyplus.com/charles_martel_biography.htm

[Peter1469]

Great stuff. And of course you know who The Hammer's grandson was: Charlemagne. The first Holy Roman Emperor.....

[MMC]

Also since the Carthaginians were kin to the Phoenicians. Althought technically the Carthaginians were on their own after the battle of Tyre.

[Goldie Locks]

What would have happened if the Germans had captured Leningrad in 1941?

[wingrider]

we wouldn't have had 50 years of cold war with russia

[Captain Obvious]

we wouldn't have had 50 years of cold war with russia

Right - that can arguably be the tipping point that thrust Russia into becoming a global power.

[Goldie Locks]

we wouldn't have had 50 years of cold war with russia

Hummm. I think it would have just bought the Germans more time before the inevitable fall.

[Agravan]

What if George Washington had accepted a monarchy instead of a presidency?

[Captain Obvious]

What if George Washington had accepted a monarchy instead of a presidency?

Then we would have had a lower-class serfdom governed by a wealthy, protected, privileged upper-class amassing the majority of wealth and power.

... wait, that's what we have now.

[Goldie Locks]

What if George Washington had accepted a monarchy instead of a presidency?

What if we had a democracy instead of a republic???

[Peter1469]

What if George Washington had accepted a monarchy instead of a presidency?

King George anticipated that very thing.

Give the last word to Washington’s great adversary, King George III. The king asked his American painter, Benjamin West, what Washington would do after winning independence. West replied, “They say he will return to his farm.”

“If he does that,” the incredulous monarch said, “he will be the greatest man in the world.”


http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/man-who-would-not-be-king



http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/man-who-would-not-be-king