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View Full Version : What is the definition of "Fair Share" in regards to taxes?



Agravan
07-26-2012, 09:26 AM
All my adult life I keep hearing the constant harping from the left about the rich paying their "fair share" of taxes. I have yet to hear a definition of what a "fair share" would be.

Who defines what is fair? Is it put to a vote and the citizenry decides? Or is it decided by our, oh so benevolent, political leaders with equal votes from both the left and the right. Or does our god-king obama make that decision?

Listen, I am all for people paying their fair share, but that should include the 47% of American that currently pay NO taxes. Where is their fair share? Broaden the tax base with a flat tax and everybody pays the same percentage, from Buffet to his secretary. Maybe start teaching kids in school about the difference between "income" and "wealth" and maybe some of these myths would go away. Not that this would ever happen with today's leftists running the show.

Peter1469
07-26-2012, 09:35 AM
I would like to see the Fair Tax. Poor people could buy used cars and houses- tax free. Rich people would pay those taxes when they bought new.

patrickt
07-26-2012, 10:06 AM
It's hard to nail down cliches. The Democrats go on and on about paying your fair share but they never say what that is. For the liberals, it's all you have. Then there is another cliche of "pulling your own weight". I wonder how that plays with the half of the households who pay no income tax? My personal favorite is "fair and equitable" only because what is fair is often not equitable, as in income tax, and what is equitable is often not fair, as in FICA tax. The government has an uncanny knack for screwing someone no matter which side of the cliche they go with.

coolwalker
07-26-2012, 10:30 AM
Some people believe that because one person has more money than another they should pay more in taxes. That by nature of the beast would be discrimination which goes against the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Those who want this to happen are simply greedy, and probably lazy. Those who are more affluent pay a great amount of money in taxes, helping keep the nation afloat. Those who want them to pay more pay very little themselves and many times get a tax return. Ask a millionaire when the last time was that they received a tax return. There answer would be never. Ask a bus driver the same question.

bladimz
07-26-2012, 10:32 AM
It's hard to nail down cliches. The Democrats go on and on about paying your fair share but they never say what that is. For the liberals, it's all you have. Then there is another cliche of "pulling your own weight". I wonder how that plays with the half of the households who pay no income tax? My personal favorite is "fair and equitable" only because what is fair is often not equitable, as in income tax, and what is equitable is often not fair, as in FICA tax. The government has an uncanny knack for screwing someone no matter which side of the cliche they go with.You're right. There is no cut and dried definition for fair. And that's the thing about life. There is no such tangible thing as fair. That being said, what it comes down to is, as someone said, fairness is a family value taught to us (or not) by our parents. Make of that what you will. But remember that the GOP has been selling itself as the party of family values for decades. Did your parents put any emphasis on fairness in your home environment? If they did, i think you know what fairness is. If not, i suppose you don't.

Chris
07-26-2012, 10:34 AM
Right, there is no definition, it's just another nebulous excuse for the following...
‎”Liberals love to say things like, ‘We’re just asking everyone to pay their fair share.’ But government is not about asking. It is about telling. The difference is fundamental. It is the difference between making love and being raped, between working for a living and being a slave. The Internal Revenue Service is not asking anybody to do anything. It confiscates your assets and puts you behind bars if you don’t pay.”
~Thomas Sowell

Mainecoons
07-26-2012, 10:35 AM
Fairness to a liberal is this: What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine to piss away on a bunch of failed ideas.

It's not about fairness with you Blad, it is about class hatred and warfare. Be honest for a change.

bladimz
07-26-2012, 10:35 AM
Some people believe that because one person has more money than another they should pay more in taxes. That by nature of the beast would be discrimination which goes against the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Those who want this to happen are simply greedy, and probably lazy. Those who are more affluent pay a great amount of money in taxes, helping keep the nation afloat. Those who want them to pay more pay very little themselves and many times get a tax return. Ask a millionaire when the last time was that they received a tax return. There answer would be never. Ask a bus driver the same question.You're comparing the financial security of a bus driver to that of a millionaire??
:biglaugh:

Agravan
07-26-2012, 10:38 AM
You're right. There is no cut and dried definition for fair. And that's the thing about life. There is no such tangible thing as fair. That being said, what it comes down to is, as someone said, fairness is a family value taught to us (or not) by our parents. Make of that what you will. But remember that the GOP has been selling itself as the party of family values for decades. Did your parents put any emphasis on fairness in your home environment? If they did, i think you know what fairness is. If not, i suppose you don't.

Then by your definition, everyone has a different concept of what is fair.
My idea of a "fair" tax would be that everyone pays the same percentage and that no one is punished for success or failure. The progressive income tax is grossly unfair, where you have some people paying nothing but receiving "free" benefits, and others getting raked over the coals and being punished and demonized for doing well.
The "inheritance" tax is also grossly unfair. That money, land, etc. has already been taxed. Why should a family have to sell their inherited farm or business to pay taxes to the government for it? The death tax is, plain and simple, theft from American families.

coolwalker
07-26-2012, 10:51 AM
You're comparing the financial security of a bus driver to that of a millionaire??
:biglaugh:
No...the personal responsibility of each. If we are to follow our founders, then we believe in "equality". A percentage...5%, 10% 25%, whatever you wish to make it. We each pay a "percentage" of our earned income, yet you expect someone who has done better in life than you to pay some of your share too.

bladimz
07-26-2012, 12:01 PM
No...the personal responsibility of each. If we are to follow our founders, then we believe in "equality". A percentage...5%, 10% 25%, whatever you wish to make it. We each pay a "percentage" of our earned income, yet you expect someone who has done better in life than you to pay some of your share too.Do i really? I pay my "share", and have always done so, without whining. I don't need or want the wealthy to do any more, or any less than i. I, for instance, don't hide any of my money in untaxed off-shore accounts.

http://www.forbes.com/2008/10/21/taxes-irs-wealth-biz-beltway-cz_jn_1021beltway.html

The previously unreported study estimates that taxpayers whose true income was between $500,000 and $1 million a year understated their adjusted gross incomes by 21% overall in 2001, compared to an 8% underreporting rate for those earning $50,000 to $100,000 and even lower rates for those earning less. (The "net misreporting rate" as the IRS calls it, includes both underreported income and inflated deductions.)

In all, because of their higher non-compliance rates, those with true incomes of $200,000 or more received 25% of all income, but accounted for 40% of net underreported income and 42% of underreported tax in 2001, the new analysis finds.So if the conversation is about personal responsibility, where's the personal responsibility when it comes time for the wealthier americans to pay their taxes?

patrickt
07-26-2012, 12:09 PM
You're right. There is no cut and dried definition for fair. And that's the thing about life. There is no such tangible thing as fair. That being said, what it comes down to is, as someone said, fairness is a family value taught to us (or not) by our parents. Make of that what you will. But remember that the GOP has been selling itself as the party of family values for decades. Did your parents put any emphasis on fairness in your home environment? If they did, i think you know what fairness is. If not, i suppose you don't.

Wow! You wander into insanity in a hurry. Is that fair?

Mainecoons
07-26-2012, 02:04 PM
They still managed to pay most of the taxes, Blad. How do you explain that away?

No matter how much they pay, no matter how much the left taxes, it will never be enough and they will not stop piling up debt and creating one government failure after another until we stop them. Period. This really is an either/or choice for America. Either the runaway government is drastically curtailed and forced to live within our means, or it will collapse the country. Only a liberal FOOL thinks you can borrow 40 percent of the budget year after year after year and get away with it.

Also period.

coolwalker
07-26-2012, 03:29 PM
Do i really? I pay my "share", and have always done so, without whining. I don't need or want the wealthy to do any more, or any less than i. I, for instance, don't hide any of my money in untaxed off-shore accounts.

http://www.forbes.com/2008/10/21/taxes-irs-wealth-biz-beltway-cz_jn_1021beltway.html
So if the conversation is about personal responsibility, where's the personal responsibility when it comes time for the wealthier americans to pay their taxes?

That isn't hiding money, it is simply spreading your money around. Any more than 10 grand in any 1 American account can't be replaced in case of theft or a bank going belly-up. If you are a muiti-millionaire, you need to spread your funds around the world for safe-keeping. It is simple common sense. I guess some of you have no common sense...!

Captain Obvious
07-26-2012, 03:49 PM
Fair and equitable tax reform is a pipe dream considering who writes the rules.