A tentative deal between the EZ and Greece

[Peter1469]

A tentative deal between the EZ and Greece (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33499650)

There has been a tentative deal: The Greek parliament gets to vote on it Wednesday.


Reports say a draft compromise has been put to the emergency summit but no details have emerged so far.


Without a new bailout, Greece's banks face collapse and the country could exit the euro.


Greece is being told to pass legislation on a series of reforms by Wednesday before any talks on another bailout can begin.



Many in parliament think that it is a bad deal for Greece. And it likely is.

[donttread]

Doesn't it seem like if the EU and IMF were going to work for Greece, they wouldn't be in this mess to begin with?

[Captain Obvious]

At some point Greece has to pay the piper

[Peter1469]

At some point Greece has to pay the piper
Or default.

[Captain Obvious]

Or default.

I give Germany a lot of credit for holding Greece to the task.

It sounds like Greece just wanted an easy button out.

[del]

I give Germany a lot of credit for holding Greece to the task.

It sounds like Greece just wanted an easy button out.

you mean like germany got? lol

[Peter1469]

I give Germany a lot of credit for holding Greece to the task.

It sounds like Greece just wanted an easy button out.

Germany's GDP is over 50% exports. If the EZ breaks up they are going to hurt.

[Peter1469]

you mean like germany got? lol

Germany defaulted 3 times last century. They stiffed a lot of people.

[del]

Germany defaulted 3 times last century. They stiffed a lot of people.

germany had their debts forgiven/reduced/relieved by agreement last century- they stiffed no one.

[Peter1469]

germany had their debts forgiven/reduced/relieved by agreement last century- they stiffed no one.
OK professor.

[Captain Obvious]

you mean like germany got? lol

Nobody should get the easy way out.

Progressives need to learn to live within their means.

Yes, I'm doing it on purpose now.

[Newpublius]

Germany defaulted 3 times last century. They stiffed a lot of people.

That's not a good description. The Germans didn't stiff people, they goosestepped into Poland and other nations and caused extensive damage. The result in WWI for instance were significant war reparations imposed on a people who had also suffered through the war. After WWII, the London Agreement was entered into between the various parties: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Agreement_on_German_External_Debts

Ultimately after WWII, Europe and Germany too needed a fresh start or they were going to wind up to WWIII and WWIII hasn't happened.

WWII and its aftermath is a major exigent circumstance.

Greece has no such excuse.

I'm sorry, but at some point you can't point your finger at Germany and say, "Well, but you were the bad guy in WWII"

Not when the vast majority of Germans currently living and who are the productive portion of the society, had nothing to do with it.

[del]

OK professor.

is stiff a term of art? that's your usual defense.

[del]

That's not a good description. The Germans didn't stiff people, they goosestepped into Poland and other nations and caused extensive damage. The result in WWI for instance were significant war reparations imposed on a people who had also suffered through the war. After WWII, the London Agreement was entered into between the various parties: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Agreement_on_German_External_Debts

Ultimately after WWII, Europe and Germany too needed a fresh start or they were going to wind up to WWIII and WWIII hasn't happened.

WWII and its aftermath is a major exigent circumstance.

Greece has no such excuse.

I'm sorry, but at some point you can't point your finger at Germany and say, "Well, but you were the bad guy in WWII"

Not when the vast majority of Germans currently living and who are the productive portion of the society, had nothing to do with it.

but one can point one's finger at germany and say, well, you got a deal, why can't we?

nice try, though.

[del]

Nobody should get the easy way out.

Progressives need to learn to live within their means.

Yes, I'm doing it on purpose now.

good to know

i'd hate to think you were being this stupid inadvertently

[Newpublius]

but one can point one's finger at germany and say, well, you got a deal, why can't we?

nice try, though.

Greece is a sovereign nation and can simply default and give itself the deal. That's not the problem, the problem is Greece wants additional funds.

[Ransom]

Greece is a sovereign nation and can simply default and give itself the deal. That's not the problem, the problem is Greece wants additional funds.

Will additional funds be considered....an investment? Should those providing relief here......should they not be repaid be considered a 'you lose' proposition?

[Ransom]

but one can point one's finger at germany and say, well, you got a deal, why can't we?

nice try, though.

This is the...third bailout deal/restructure for Greece?

would it be too much to ask with this one that they cease debt spending?

[Ransom]

Germany defaulted 3 times last century. They stiffed a lot of people.

Half their nation behind an iron curtain, the other half nearly wiped out.

Again, is it too much to ask that Greece now cease debt spending?

[Peter1469]

Currently Greece is running at a 1.8% deficit (of GDP) (http://www.debtclocks.eu/public-debt-and-budget-deficit-of-greece.html).

Their debt is the real problem: 174%. Same link. They can't pay down the debt with an economy in recession. They have to grow their economy, and that is not likely possible in the Euro and with the offered debt restructuring.

[Newpublius]

Their economy is in shambles because they financed a large lethargic public sector. They don't want to undergo 'austerity' -- a great socialist marketing ploy to convince people not to shrink the public sector. But that's what needs to happen, they need to undergo an economic liberalization and shift resources from the public sector to the private sector