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GrassrootsConservative
07-16-2015, 08:28 PM
I was just about to respond to Green Arrow's post about Polly posting silliness but then I found out I couldn't because it's in the exclusive elitist section that I can't post in.

Please remove those posts and threads from my view and the "What's New" section if you're not going to allow everyone that wishes to post in there to post in there.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 08:30 PM
Agreed.

Peter1469
07-16-2015, 08:33 PM
Talk to the software manufacturer.

GrassrootsConservative
07-16-2015, 08:35 PM
Idk who it is.

You guys hid the hole and VIP section from normal view. Just do the same with the other exclusive section.

Peter1469
07-16-2015, 08:37 PM
Idk who it is.

You guys hid the hole and VIP section from normal view. Just do the same with the other exclusive section.

Heck if I know how to do that.

GrassrootsConservative
07-16-2015, 08:38 PM
admin

Common
07-16-2015, 08:41 PM
Whats the big deal, Im sure im not allowed in there and whats the difference if you can see the forum or not. Were scrubs whether you can see the forum or not.

Peter1469
07-16-2015, 08:42 PM
The only reason it was created was to prevent people from dropping turds in a serious topic.

Look around.

Common
07-16-2015, 08:43 PM
The only reason it was created was to prevent people from dropping turds in a serious topic.

Look around.

So who decided whos allowed and who isnt

Peter1469
07-16-2015, 08:44 PM
There is a thread in the announcements that discusses the process.

PolWatch
07-16-2015, 08:44 PM
The serious discussion forum is bait. Perhaps a desire to post in an area troll and insult free will inspire some to change their style. Hope springs eternal.

GrassrootsConservative
07-16-2015, 08:45 PM
The only reason it was created was to prevent people from dropping turds in a serious topic.

Look around.

So you kick the turd-droppers off the forum and stop punishing good, long-term members for the actions of a few. Not a difficult concept.

del
07-16-2015, 08:46 PM
So you kick the turd-droppers off the forum and stop punishing good, long-term members for the actions of a few. Not a difficult concept.

or you could grow a pair and stop acting like a whiny three year old.

maybe spend some quality time on your phone

GrassrootsConservative
07-16-2015, 08:47 PM
or you could grow a pair and stop acting like a whiny three year old.

maybe spend some quality time on your phone

GTFO of here, turd dropper.

del
07-16-2015, 08:48 PM
GTFO of here, turd dropper.

here's $10

spend an hour fucking yourself

see, you got a raise already

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 08:49 PM
Gotta agree with Grass on this one. This forum touts it's "open" policy welcoming "all" perspectives unless you are someone's definition of a troll and then all bets are off...

Kinda weird...

Oh and by the way as soon as I can put a confederate flag avatar on I'm doing it! IMPress Polly

del
07-16-2015, 08:52 PM
i think heraclitus put it best when he said, "who gives a fuck?"

Common
07-16-2015, 08:54 PM
There is a thread in the announcements that discusses the process.

75% has to vote higher than congress, lol Another TPF popularity forum.

Calypso Jones
07-16-2015, 08:57 PM
gys, didn't you think this thing all the way through?? of course you're gonna have problems with this if it shows up on the right hand side of the page. Did you think people wouldn't get frustrated with it and then angry. oh...no...you didn't.. lolol

don't any of you know how to go into the admin panel and fix it? Every time you okay one of the elites you allow them access...of course you got to go in and deny access to everyone first. LOLOLOL Probably just better delete it and pretend it never happened.

del
07-16-2015, 08:58 PM
gys, didn't you think this thing all the way through?? of course you're gonna have problems with this if it shows up on the right hand side of the page. Did you think people wouldn't get frustrated with it and then angry. oh...no...you didn't.. lolol

don't any of you know how to go into the admin panel and fix it? Every time you okay one of the elites you allow them access...of course you got to go in and deny access to everyone first. LOLOLOL Probably just better delete it and pretend it never happened.

has your chlamydia cleared up?

Common
07-16-2015, 08:58 PM
The serious discussion forum is bait. Perhaps a desire to post in an area troll and insult free will inspire some to change their style. Hope springs eternal.

With a 75% vote its a popularity forum

Common
07-16-2015, 09:00 PM
Gotta agree with Grass on this one. This forum touts it's "open" policy welcoming "all" perspectives unless you are someone's definition of a troll and then all bets are off...

Kinda weird...

Oh and by the way as soon as I can put a confederate flag avatar on I'm doing it! @IMPress Polly (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=399)

Its popularity, just like the VIPs Ill bet a donut that a liked turd dropper or two will gain access.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 09:02 PM
i think heraclitus put it best when he said, "who gives a fuck?"

People who derive meaning in their life from humping the leg of tragedies?

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 09:04 PM
Its popularity, just like the VIPs Ill bet a donut that a liked turd dropper or two will gain access.

I hereby declare that I will never post in the tPF discussion forum. A) Cause I'm a turd dropper that will never be invited and B) I'm all out of righteous indignation and this is my last hope.

Calypso Jones
07-16-2015, 09:05 PM
has your chlamydia cleared up?


LOL. Are you trying to hurt my feelings? Naturally I'm devastated.

Common
07-16-2015, 09:05 PM
I hereby declare that I will never post in the tPF discussion forum. A) Cause I'm a turd dropper that will never be invited and B) I'm all out of righteous indignation and this is my last hope.

Its not important either way man, since it was brought up I will say how I feel about it. Its not a bother to me.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 09:06 PM
Its not important either way man, since it was brought up I will say how I feel about it. Its not a bother to me.

Me neither but let me have my righteous indignation damnit!!!!

Dr. Who
07-16-2015, 09:07 PM
GTFO of here, turd dropper.
Membership in the discussion forum is also dependent on adult behavior - not losing it on other members or treating each other like riff raff - i.e. name calling and insults, but instead disagreeing in a civilized fashion so that threads don't get derailed by school yard antics. It is meant to be largely self-moderating and its membership decide if a member is behaving improperly and should be voted out of the group. TBH we want the discussions to be seen, not only by the membership, but by non-members as well. If you don't want to read it, check out the forum name before you click on the post. There is also no reason why you cannot start a parallel discussion on the same topic in one of the regular forums.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 09:12 PM
Membership in the discussion forum is also dependent on adult behavior - not losing it on other members or treating each other like riff raff - i.e. name calling and insults, but instead disagreeing in a civilized fashion so that threads don't get derailed by school yard antics. It is meant to be largely self-moderating and its membership decide if a member is behaving improperly and should be voted out of the group. TBH we want the discussions to be seen, not only by the membership, but by non-members as well. If you don't want to read it, check out the forum name before you click on the post. There is also no reason why you cannot start a parallel discussion on the same topic in one of the regular forums.

Well who is defining "adult behavior"? Are they an adult? Did they take the "adult behavior" class? Have they never lost it? Named called? Insulted? If it is self-moderating why are you moderating the people who can attend?

Pretty childish and divisive in my opinion...

Common
07-16-2015, 09:14 PM
Membership in the discussion forum is also dependent on adult behavior - not losing it on other members or treating each other like riff raff - i.e. name calling and insults, but instead disagreeing in a civilized fashion so that threads don't get derailed by school yard antics. It is meant to be largely self-moderating and its membership decide if a member is behaving improperly and should be voted out of the group. TBH we want the discussions to be seen, not only by the membership, but by non-members as well. If you don't want to read it, check out the forum name before you click on the post. There is also no reason why you cannot start a parallel discussion on the same topic in one of the regular forums.

Its based on a 75% vote and this forum splits the entire forum down the middle and it delineates the favored sons and relegates others to forum scrubs. Now if thats what your intention is and I believe its probably the intention of a couple then you did the right thing.

So now we have the Elite VIPs and now we have the Elite TPF forum members. So whats the next brainstorm going to be to fragment the forum even more.

If you really have a problem with the way posters post theres other ways to handle it than to insult demean and separate half the forum.

This is my opinion, does it bother me ? no not at all Im just stating how I view it since GRC mentioned it.

Talking about morale, if this isnt a morale busting idea nothing you could come up with is. It certainly doesnt promote forum harmony and cohesion and civility when you split people up and compartment them.

Peter1469
07-16-2015, 09:15 PM
GTFO of here, turd dropper.

That would be a no go in the Discussion Forum.

:shocked:

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:16 PM
Well who is defining "adult behavior"? Are they an adult? Did they take the "adult behavior" class? Have they never lost it? Named called? Insulted? If it is self-moderating why are you moderating the people who can attend?

Pretty childish and divisive in my opinion...



The members of the group define it.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 09:16 PM
The members of the group define it.

And the members are decided by whom again?

Cigar
07-16-2015, 09:17 PM
Membership in the discussion forum is also dependent on adult behavior - not losing it on other members or treating each other like riff raff - i.e. name calling and insults, but instead disagreeing in a civilized fashion so that threads don't get derailed by school yard antics. It is meant to be largely self-moderating and its membership decide if a member is behaving improperly and should be voted out of the group. TBH we want the discussions to be seen, not only by the membership, but by non-members as well. If you don't want to read it, check out the forum name before you click on the post. There is also no reason why you cannot start a parallel discussion on the same topic in one of the regular forums.

I guess that count's me out of the Good-Old-Boys Club :laugh:

I was brought up to not take any crap from anyone, and if that means dishing it back, well that me. :grin:

It's worked for me ... I don't recommend it for everyone.

Peter1469
07-16-2015, 09:17 PM
75% has to vote higher than congress, lol Another TPF popularity forum.
It is one forum with very limited threads. Only one substantive thread so far.

I don't expect it to be that popular.

Peter1469
07-16-2015, 09:18 PM
has your chlamydia cleared up?

There is another example of what isn't in the discussion forum.

Thanks for the contribution. :wink:

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 09:20 PM
It is one forum with very limited threads. Only one substantive thread so far.

I don't expect it to be that popular.

Maybe cause it doesn't have the populace?

It's a defunct forum in my opinion and flies in the face of that which this forum supposedly stands for...

Cigar
07-16-2015, 09:20 PM
Its based on a 75% vote and this forum splits the entire forum down the middle and it delineates the favored sons and relegates others to forum scrubs. Now if thats what your intention is and I believe its probably the intention of a couple then you did the right thing.

So now we have the Elite VIPs and now we have the Elite TPF forum members. So whats the next brainstorm going to be to fragment the forum even more.

If you really have a problem with the way posters post theres other ways to handle it than to insult demean and separate half the forum.

This is my opinion, does it bother me ? no not at all Im just stating how I view it since GRC mentioned it.

Talking about morale, if this isnt a morale busting idea nothing you could come up with is. It certainly doesnt promote forum harmony and cohesion and civility when you split people up and compartment them.

No thanks, I don't want to be in that group :laugh:

DO you guys have a special handshake and special Hats?

Common
07-16-2015, 09:20 PM
The members of the group define it.

The Leets lol

Common
07-16-2015, 09:21 PM
No thanks, I don't want to in that group :laugh:

DO you guys have a special handshake and special Hats?

Im not in the group

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 09:23 PM
OK Enough of my soapboxing... You've heard my criticism now hear my constructive suggestions:

Open the forum to everyone but allow the forum to moderate itself.

That means invite everyone to start, and if a vote is held to kick someone then kick him. Self-moderation at its finest. If someone trolls put it to a vote. If someone name calls put it to a vote.

Perhaps we can show a small glimpse of what the U.S. is supposed to be here on this little forum.

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:23 PM
The Leets lol

For someone who says he doesn't give a shit you sure give a shit.

Common
07-16-2015, 09:24 PM
Maybe cause it doesn't have the populace?

It's a defunct forum in my opinion and flies in the face of that which this forum supposedly stands for...

It flies in the face of what any "PUBLIC" political forum stands for. This is a group of forum favorite members "VIPS" wanting to be set apart and above the run of the mill scrub forum members and decide by 75% vote who else is WORTHY of their presence. If that isnt the intention it certainly is the perception. I think the whole concept was a miscue and at best a way to separate the "PUBLIC" forum even more.

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:26 PM
OK Enough of my soapboxing... You've heard my criticism now hear my constructive suggestions:

Open the forum to everyone but allow the forum to moderate itself.

That means invite everyone to start, and if a vote is held to kick someone then kick him. Self-moderation at its finest. If someone trolls put it to a vote. If someone name calls put it to a vote.

Perhaps we can show a small glimpse of what the U.S. is supposed to be here on this little forum.

One, you have the Hole to run as you like.

Two, read the following and get back when you have:

Reddit is a huge online forum, I browse it's main page for funny stuff, and also it's libertarian. Austrian and anarchy communities. And it's collapsing, as you might know. Here's why.

The Death of Reddit (http://www.chuqui.com/2015/07/the-death-of-reddit/)

He begins by explaining he has built various online communities for sports, sports bar you might call them. He explains eventually you get bikers in the bar and of you don't eject them you end up with a biker bar.


...To carry this visualization to Reddit, what you have is a really large, multi-floor building with a large ground-floor common space and a huge bar area filled with a wide variety of people. Much of the rest of the building are community rooms that people can use for their organizations and meetups to get together and interact. it’s a huge — and very successful — community space.

Reddit, however, has a basement, and in all honesty, the owners of this building would prefer nobody look down there, because again, it’s a big space full of community rooms as well, but down there are the groups Reddit feel are part of the community but would prefer most of us would stay avoid. In some ways Reddit should be lauded for being inclusive of all community groups, even the uncomfortable ones, but down in that basement is a big part of the ultimate death of Reddit.

Here’s the thing. there are groups that don’t feel the need to behave, that see that rebellion against authority as the base of their enjoyment. And there are people who simply get off by destroying what others build or screwing up what others enjoy. If you invite those people into your house, eventually some of them are going to start pissing into your fireplace or throwing chairs at each other in the main hall. Even if you keep them in their own out of the way mostly hidden community room, the things they do will attract attention adn the authorities, and when the police come through your front door and raid your basement, your other patrons will notice. When that happens often enough, you’ll see more and more of those become ex-patrons. Most of us don’t want to party in a biker bar. Hell, most of us don’t want to party next door to a biker bar, or within blocks of a biker bar. Once your place gets that reputation, it’s going to make everyone around it nervous.

That, in a nutshell, is one of the big problems at Reddit: they wanted to be inclusive, which is a laudible (if somewhat naive) goal. Groups of — questionable — ethics and reputation have taken advantage of that, and it doesn’t matter if you have a big building with ten floors of community rooms full of great people organizing to do great things, that basement full of bikers is going to end up dominating your reputation and the conversation about you.

I don’t have a Reddit account because, ultimately, I could not support Reddit because of the groups they allow into that basement. How you feel about it is a decision you have to make, but in my mind, to the degree you help Reddit thrive by being a user, mod or contributor, you’re contributing to the success of that basement floor of rooms you’d never want to visit as well. I won’t enable that behavior, even indirectly. I am not judging your decision — but I am encouraging you to think and judge yourself.

Reddit, to put it bluntly, is a case study of how not to build a community....

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:26 PM
It flies in the face of what any "PUBLIC" political forum stands for. This is a group of forum favorite members "VIPS" wanting to be set apart and above the run of the mill scrub forum members and decide by 75% vote who else is WORTHY of their presence. If that isnt the intention it certainly is the perception. I think the whole concept was a miscue and at best a way to separate the "PUBLIC" forum even more.


This is a private forum. It's not government run.

GrassrootsConservative
07-16-2015, 09:27 PM
That would be a no go in the Discussion Forum.

:shocked:

Del's postings? Yes, I know.

That's why I called him a "turd dropper."

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 09:27 PM
For someone who says he doesn't give a shit you sure give a shit.

I give a shit and have complained about not being able to have a civil conversation devoid of name-calling and political party dropping. Yet I don't get an invite. Not that I would accept it at this point because the whole thing smells like shit now.

You Mods have to land your plane. Either create rules against name-calling and trolling or don't but the worst possible thing this site could do is to selectively choose members that, in their opinion, debate like they like to debate.

Fucking A this is slap you in the face clear....

GrassrootsConservative
07-16-2015, 09:28 PM
OK Enough of my soapboxing... You've heard my criticism now hear my constructive suggestions:

Open the forum to everyone but allow the forum to moderate itself.

That means invite everyone to start, and if a vote is held to kick someone then kick him. Self-moderation at its finest. If someone trolls put it to a vote. If someone name calls put it to a vote.

Perhaps we can show a small glimpse of what the U.S. is supposed to be here on this little forum.

I think this is fair.

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:28 PM
I give a shit and have complained about not being able to have a civil conversation devoid of name-calling and political party dropping. Yet I don't get an invite. Not that I would accept it at this point because the whole thing smells like shit now.

You Mods have to land your plane. Either create rules against name-calling and trolling or don't but the worst possible thing this site could do is to selectively choose members that, in their opinion, debate like they like to debate.

Fucking A this is slap you in the face clear....


Get back when you've read about Reddit.

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:28 PM
I think this is fair.

You have the Hole to run any way you like.

Peter1469
07-16-2015, 09:29 PM
Maybe cause it doesn't have the populace?

It's a defunct forum in my opinion and flies in the face of that which this forum supposedly stands for...

How so?

If a member wants to start a serious thread and within 10 minutes a turd is laid in it?

Look around at the open threads. How much dross do you see?

And that is fine. Some members like to sling slop. Some don't. Many are confused as to where they stand.

This one forum that has one real thread in it has zero turds in it. Why is that?

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 09:30 PM
It flies in the face of what any "PUBLIC" political forum stands for. This is a group of forum favorite members "VIPS" wanting to be set apart and above the run of the mill scrub forum members and decide by 75% vote who else is WORTHY of their presence. If that isnt the intention it certainly is the perception. I think the whole concept was a miscue and at best a way to separate the "PUBLIC" forum even more.

And the VIPs are also hand picked. I know, I was a VIP until I came down with Carcinoma and took a few months off. I came back and wasn't a VIP. At first I really didn't mind but now that I hear VIPs making selective forums and suggesting rules on Avatars I'm concerned that my favorite political site is becoming like all the others....

GrassrootsConservative
07-16-2015, 09:31 PM
You have the Hole to run any way you like.

Is that true? Do I run the hole now? ADMIN one of your mods is telling me I run the hole. I would like to know what exclusive access I have and how to ban, threadban, and infract people.

Common
07-16-2015, 09:31 PM
OK Enough of my soapboxing... You've heard my criticism now hear my constructive suggestions:

Open the forum to everyone but allow the forum to moderate itself.

That means invite everyone to start, and if a vote is held to kick someone then kick him. Self-moderation at its finest. If someone trolls put it to a vote. If someone name calls put it to a vote.

Perhaps we can show a small glimpse of what the U.S. is supposed to be here on this little forum.

Yep same, im done with it

Peter1469
07-16-2015, 09:32 PM
OK Enough of my soapboxing... You've heard my criticism now hear my constructive suggestions:

Open the forum to everyone but allow the forum to moderate itself.

That means invite everyone to start, and if a vote is held to kick someone then kick him. Self-moderation at its finest. If someone trolls put it to a vote. If someone name calls put it to a vote.

Perhaps we can show a small glimpse of what the U.S. is supposed to be here on this little forum.

That would be ideal, but the software is limited.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 09:32 PM
How so?

If a member wants to start a serious thread and within 10 minutes a turd is laid in it?

Look around at the open threads. How much dross do you see?

And that is fine. Some members like to sling slop. Some don't. Many are confused as to where they stand.

This one forum that has one real thread in it has zero turds in it. Why is that?

Pete!? Whose fault is that?? The trollers and dump droppers are here because that's what the forum's goal is... "To allow all perspectives". Isn't that correct?

Now while I find that desire admirable what you end up with is a bunch of trollers and dump droppers... So in order for the forum to have a decent conversation you don't crack down on the trollers and dump droppers, you crack down on the guys that are interested in true and logical debate.

Kinda sounds like gun control when you put it that way doesn't it?

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 09:33 PM
That would be ideal, but the software is limited.

The Humanware is quite capable. I know this for a fact after having been a member here for over two years...

Common
07-16-2015, 09:34 PM
For someone who says he doesn't give a shit you sure give a shit.

If you dont like my voicing my opinion---now heres where I can get blunt, nasty, sarcastic <like you> toss a couple of turds. Instead Ill just say not only do I care about what you think I mean, I dont care about you :) not even a little

Peter1469
07-16-2015, 09:34 PM
Pete!? Whose fault is that?? The trollers and dump droppers are here because that's what the forum's goal is... "To allow all perspectives". Isn't that correct?

Now while I find that desire admirable what you end up with is a bunch of trollers and dump droppers... So in order for the forum to have a decent conversation you don't crack down on the trollers and dump droppers, you crack down on the guys that are interested in true and logical debate.

Kinda sounds like gun control when you put it that way doesn't it?

Paralytically the entire forum is open to all. Only one substantive thread isn't.

Start a thread with the exact title and get it going in the open forum. Let's see how long before someone shits in it.

Cigar
07-16-2015, 09:35 PM
And the VIPs are also hand picked. I know, I was a VIP until I came down with Carcinoma and took a few months off. I came back and wasn't a VIP. At first I really didn't mind but now that I hear VIPs making selective forums and suggesting rules on Avatars I'm concerned that my favorite political site is becoming like all the others....

Are you saying ... wait, can I say it, .... Not Fair ... Not Equal ... Not Just ... Not Inclusive? :grin:

No Way ... :laugh:

Peter1469
07-16-2015, 09:36 PM
Moderating the forum is a balancing act. We have people who want tight rules, we have people who want no rules. We try to accommodate them all.

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:36 PM
If you dont like my voicing my opinion---now heres where I can get blunt, nasty, sarcastic <like you> toss a couple of turds. Instead Ill just say not only do I care about what you think I mean, I dont care about you :) not even a little

You're free to voice your self-contradictory opinions just as I'm free to point out the contradictions.

Nice ad hom. I'm devastated.

Common
07-16-2015, 09:37 PM
One, you have the Hole to run as you like.

Two, read the following and get back when you have:

Reddit is a huge online forum, I browse it's main page for funny stuff, and also it's libertarian. Austrian and anarchy communities. And it's collapsing, as you might know. Here's why.

The Death of Reddit (http://www.chuqui.com/2015/07/the-death-of-reddit/)

He begins by explaining he has built various online communities for sports, sports bar you might call them. He explains eventually you get bikers in the bar and of you don't eject them you end up with a biker bar.

THE HOLE IS A PUBLIC FORUM, thats not the issue here hotshot the issue is you created your own little private invite only 75% vote little haven to exclude those you dont like, which in turn splits a public forum into Elites and Scrubs. I know you dont like to be disagreed with Chris but you should know by now I couldnt care less what you like :)

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:39 PM
Paralytically the entire forum is open to all. Only one substantive thread isn't.

Start a thread with the exact title and get it going in the open forum. Let's see how long before someone shits in it.



This one area is no different than a group set up as invite only. Those have been around since the beginning. And no different than setting up your own blog and administering it as you see fit.

Common
07-16-2015, 09:40 PM
You're free to voice your self-contradictory opinions just as I'm free to point out the contradictions.

Nice ad hom. I'm devastated.

You were devestated long before you met me. The only contradiction is in your head chrissy.

I can voice my opinion in support of or against anything I choose and not be personally offended or angry about it. Telling it like I see it and caring about it, is two different things.

Nice try with your AD HOM that ad hom thing has always been a favorite of yours when your pants are around your knees and you want to act like you were picked on.

Anything else you want to say to try an insult me because I dont agree with your assinine forum

Cigar
07-16-2015, 09:41 PM
THE HOLE IS A PUBLIC FORUM, thats not the issue here hotshot the issue is you created your own little private invite only 75% vote little haven to exclude those you dont like, which in turn splits a public forum into Elites and Scrubs. I know you dont like to be disagreed with Chris but you should know by now I couldnt care less what you like :)

Please tell me this isn't just a Boys Club .... :3some: and that at lease One Woman is in the Room keeping an eye on you boys. :laugh:

Common
07-16-2015, 09:42 PM
Obviously Chris is annoyed people are voicing their opinions about his Private Elite Forum creation, I guess he expected only praise from the Forums Elite Posters and not any disagreement from anyone else. Its a real cruel world out here chris.

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:42 PM
THE HOLE IS A PUBLIC FORUM, thats not the issue here hotshot the issue is you created your own little private invite only 75% vote little haven to exclude those you dont like, which in turn splits a public forum into Elites and Scrubs. I know you dont like to be disagreed with Chris but you should know by now I couldnt care less what you like :)

The entire forum is a private forum. The Hole is private, the Discussion Area is private, every area is private. Period.

The members of the group will in time decide what % of votes let's people in, how long the voting lasts, etc.

I like to be disagreed with, nice of you to make things up though.

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:44 PM
Obviously Chris is annoyed people are voicing their opinions about his Private Elite Forum creation, I guess he expected only praise from the Forums Elite Posters and not any disagreement from anyone else. Its a real cruel world out here chris.

Nice of you to make things up again. Lovely ad hom. Emotions.

No one is telling you you can't voice your opinion, please do, and I and others will respond as freely. What, don't like that freedom?

Common
07-16-2015, 09:44 PM
Please tell me this isn't just a Boys Club .... :3some: and that at lease One Woman is in the Room keeping an eye on you boys. :laugh:

You know what it is as well as I and everyone else. Chris has his panties bunched because everyone isnt kissing his ass about it. So he tries to to deflect by putting it on me by saying im being contradictory. Chris doesnt think anyone can think an idea is stupid and not really care about it. Thats how stuck he is in his swirly little world he has going on his head

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:45 PM
You were devestated long before you met me. The only contradiction is in your head chrissy.

I can voice my opinion in support of or against anything I choose and not be personally offended or angry about it. Telling it like I see it and caring about it, is two different things.

Nice try with your AD HOM that ad hom thing has always been a favorite of yours when your pants are around your knees and you want to act like you were picked on.

Anything else you want to say to try an insult me because I dont agree with your assinine forum



No one's insulting you, common.

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:46 PM
You know what it is as well as I and everyone else. Chris has his panties bunched because everyone isnt kissing his ass about it. So he tries to to deflect by putting it on me by saying im being contradictory. Chris doesnt think anyone can think an idea is stupid and not really care about it. Thats how stuck he is in his swirly little world he has going on his head

Aw, gee, common is mad at me.

Calypso Jones
07-16-2015, 09:46 PM
Nice of you to make things up again. Lovely ad hom. Emotions.

No one is telling you you can't voice your opinion, please do, and I and others will respond as freely. What, don't like that freedom?

FREEDOM!! You keep people out of a forum and thread and only allow them in with a 75% approval rating from the elite members and YOU CALL THAT FREEDOM!! well I pray you are joking.

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:46 PM
Please tell me this isn't just a Boys Club .... :3some: and that at lease One Woman is in the Room keeping an eye on you boys. :laugh:

There are several women belong. Want to join now? :D

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 09:47 PM
One, you have the Hole to run as you like.

Two, read the following and get back when you have:

Reddit is a huge online forum, I browse it's main page for funny stuff, and also it's libertarian. Austrian and anarchy communities. And it's collapsing, as you might know. Here's why.

The Death of Reddit (http://www.chuqui.com/2015/07/the-death-of-reddit/)

He begins by explaining he has built various online communities for sports, sports bar you might call them. He explains eventually you get bikers in the bar and of you don't eject them you end up with a biker bar.

We talking about Reddit here?

Common
07-16-2015, 09:47 PM
Nice of you to make things up again. Lovely ad hom. Emotions.

No one is telling you you can't voice your opinion, please do, and I and others will respond as freely. What, don't like that freedom?

OMG the AD HOM again. Nice try at an ADHOM chrissy trying to make this about me to deflect from the content. You and your Ad Homs will be ignored from this point on. Im sorry I got your panties all bunched up by disagreeing with you.

You started the exchange between you and I with your AD HOM emotional statement that I was being contradictory. You did that to try and start some turd throwing LMAO. byebye chrissy

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:47 PM
FREEDOM!! You keep people out of a forum and thread and only allow them in with a 75% approval rating from the elite members and YOU CALL THAT FREEDOM!! well I pray you are joking.

I don't think you understand the meaning of freedom the way you're talking. I mean, here you are free to opine, no one's stopping you, yet you whine you're not free.

Common
07-16-2015, 09:48 PM
We talking about Reddit here?

Tell him the hole is a public forum not an elite private forum. Make it like an ADHOm and he will understand it

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 09:48 PM
One, you have the Hole to run as you like.

Two, read the following and get back when you have:

Reddit is a huge online forum, I browse it's main page for funny stuff, and also it's libertarian. Austrian and anarchy communities. And it's collapsing, as you might know. Here's why.

The Death of Reddit (http://www.chuqui.com/2015/07/the-death-of-reddit/)

He begins by explaining he has built various online communities for sports, sports bar you might call them. He explains eventually you get bikers in the bar and of you don't eject them you end up with a biker bar.

I think you are validating my point. You guys opened a biker bar, got a lot of bikers and are now opening a back room for the non-bikers.

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:48 PM
OMG the AD HOM again. Nice try at an ADHOM chrissy trying to make this about me to deflect from the content. You and your Ad Homs will be ignored from this point on. Im sorry I got your panties all bunched up by disagreeing with you.

You started the exchange between you and I with your AD HOM emotional statement that I was being contradictory. You did that to try and start some turd throwing LMAO. byebye chrissy


Yes, you contradicted yourself. I pointed out. Now you're going on a tirade.

Chris
07-16-2015, 09:49 PM
I think you are validating my point. You guys opened a biker bar, got a lot of bikers and are now opening a back room for the non-bikers.

OK, so that's the problem. If you recognize that, then perhaps you understand wanting to keep bikers out of one area.

Cthulhu
07-16-2015, 09:51 PM
or you could grow a pair and stop acting like a whiny three year old.

maybe spend some quality time on your phone


GTFO of here, turd dropper.

^^^^ Exactly why the new area was created and what we are trying to avoid.

Mods can't be everywhere monitoring the situation. But in a smaller section they can be. The idea is to be able to disagree without exchanges like what is seen above.

Sent from my evil, puppy-munching cellphone.

Common
07-16-2015, 09:53 PM
No one's insulting you, common.

You are incapable of that chris. Only people I care about can insult me.

Common
07-16-2015, 09:55 PM
Aw, gee, common is mad at me.

Im laughing at you chrissy because YOU cant address a single thing I said up front, as usual you just deflect when you have no reasonable response.

I dont get mad at you chris. I dont like you and I never have, I remember full well what you were like. Leopards dont change spots that just hide behind camouflage

Safety
07-16-2015, 09:57 PM
Guys, I know there is frustration because you got a glimpse at the goings on behind the curtain. This is not some special club, but an experiment to see how viable it can be. Just like the one-on-one debate room, this was supposed to be a more of a group debate. Everything does not always start out working as one hopes it does, but it is a learning process on seeing what works and what needs to be changed. Each of you know that this is one of the best forums out there, just be patient and work with the mod team and the admin, it will work out, trust me.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 09:57 PM
Get back when you've read about Reddit.

Why? What does this, outside of your reference to Reddit, have to do with Reddit?

Common
07-16-2015, 09:59 PM
Now since you want this to continue chrissy and you dont want to address any of my posts. Ill ask you some direct questions.

Does your private forum Separate the Public Forum in your mind

Who dreamt up the 75% fix it vote to be able to exclude who you dont want.

Are you going to make a list of who you think is a turd throwers and list them in the public forum to further degrade those posters that dont reach your high standards.

Whats your next move to make yourself feel special and above all on the internet

Cthulhu
07-16-2015, 10:01 PM
How so?

If a member wants to start a serious thread and within 10 minutes a turd is laid in it?

Look around at the open threads. How much dross do you see?

And that is fine. Some members like to sling slop. Some don't. Many are confused as to where they stand.

This one forum that has one real thread in it has zero turds in it. Why is that?
It is because the current members know how and when to use the outhouse.

Sent from my evil, puppy-munching cellphone.

Cthulhu
07-16-2015, 10:05 PM
THE HOLE IS A PUBLIC FORUM, thats not the issue here hotshot the issue is you created your own little private invite only 75% vote little haven to exclude those you dont like, which in turn splits a public forum into Elites and Scrubs. I know you dont like to be disagreed with Chris but you should know by now I couldnt care less what you like :)
Yes, there is a measure of exclusivity - this is by design. However, all of the barriers to entry are only dissolved by the applicant's behavior and the vote after applying.

Sent from my evil, puppy-munching cellphone.

Dr. Who
07-16-2015, 10:07 PM
Well who is defining "adult behavior"? Are they an adult? Did they take the "adult behavior" class? Have they never lost it? Named called? Insulted? If it is self-moderating why are you moderating the people who can attend?

Pretty childish and divisive in my opinion...
We are not. The VIPs were given automatic membership and we invited the members of the forum to apply. As the membership increases, it is the members of the forum who will admit other members. We had to start with someone who could vote, but as more members are admitted, it will truly be the regular membership who decide who joins.

Ravens Fan
07-16-2015, 10:08 PM
Private Pickle and Common Have you guys PMed a member of the discussion group to ask to join? That is all that is required to put it up to a vote. Personally, I'm only looking for people who are capable of decent conversation, as both of you are. The 75% part was based off what is used in the VIP room for vote tallys, but that can be changed by the membership of the room. Join in and help us fine tune it.

Safety
07-16-2015, 10:13 PM
Private Pickle and Common Have you guys PMed a member of the discussion group to ask to join? That is all that is required to put it up to a vote. Personally, I'm only looking for people who are capable of decent conversation, as both of you are. The 75% part was based off what is used in the VIP room for vote tallys, but that can be changed by the membership of the room. Join in and help us fine tune it.

Yes, there was cake and punch in the back room. WAS cake I should say...

Ravens Fan
07-16-2015, 10:16 PM
Yes, there was cake and punch in the back room. WAS cake I should say...

Sorry, I got the munchies :grin:

Common
07-16-2015, 10:16 PM
@Private Pickle (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=615) and @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659) Have you guys PMed a member of the discussion group to ask to join? That is all that is required to put it up to a vote. Personally, I'm only looking for people who are capable of decent conversation, as both of you are. The 75% part was based off what is used in the VIP room for vote tallys, but that can be changed by the membership of the room. Join in and help us fine tune it.

No and I wouldnt Raven, I think the entire concept is wrong, whether anyone that brainstormed this realizes it or not or maybe they do I dont know. It splits the forum and creates an elite class and a scrub class. This is a public forum and it creates a private club within a public forum, we already have that with the VIPS. I also believe a 75% vote is absurd and the purpose purely exclusionary.
I dont have any problem remaining in the scrub class.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 10:18 PM
@Private Pickle (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=615) and @Common (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=659) Have you guys PMed a member of the discussion group to ask to join? That is all that is required to put it up to a vote. Personally, I'm only looking for people who are capable of decent conversation, as both of you are. The 75% part was based off what is used in the VIP room for vote tallys, but that can be changed by the membership of the room. Join in and help us fine tune it.

Nope. Been there done that. After I was removed I had no desire to rejoin the "ranks"....

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 10:20 PM
Paralytically the entire forum is open to all. Only one substantive thread isn't.

Start a thread with the exact title and get it going in the open forum. Let's see how long before someone shits in it.

So by definition the "entire forum" isn't open to all.

I'll tell the next black guy I see that while the nice drinking fountain isn't "open to all" that the one he will have to use is just fine....

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 10:20 PM
Are you saying ... wait, can I say it, .... Not Fair ... Not Equal ... Not Just ... Not Inclusive? :grin:

No Way ... :laugh:

It's the American way.... Have I stuttered?

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 10:21 PM
Tell him the hole is a public forum not an elite private forum. Make it like an ADHOm and he will understand it

You would have done a fine job.....

Safety
07-16-2015, 10:21 PM
So by definition the "entire forum" isn't open to all.

I'll tell the next black guy I see that while the nice drinking fountain isn't "open to all" that the one he will have to use is just fine....

Well...damn.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 10:22 PM
OK, so that's the problem. If you recognize that, then perhaps you understand wanting to keep bikers out of one area.

Sure I get it...but I don't get putting a sign on the men's bathroom that says "No Bikers Allowed" vs. just putting it on the entrance....

Dr. Who
07-16-2015, 10:25 PM
I'm not sure why people are complaining - you haven't lost anything. There is now a forum that is only comprised of members who agree to behave and have already proven that they can behave, remain on topic or refrain from turning the debate into partisan politics. The forum wouldn't even exist if all of the membership would treat each other with respect. We have lost good members because they had to slog through a million insults to get to the meat of an argument. We thought that we would give those members a place of their own where they could debate a serious topic in good faith. This is one small experimental forum. The rest of the forum has not changed. I note that the people who are complaining the loudest have not even applied to become members.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 10:26 PM
We are not. The VIPs were given automatic membership and we invited the members of the forum to apply. As the membership increases, it is the members of the forum who will admit other members. We had to start with someone who could vote, but as more members are admitted, it will truly be the regular membership who decide who joins.

You mean it's the members of the forum who you've chosen specifically to start the vote on members who that person whom you nominated will vote in.....

It's really quite pedestrian for the mod team to support if you ask me....

Dr. Who
07-16-2015, 10:27 PM
Its based on a 75% vote and this forum splits the entire forum down the middle and it delineates the favored sons and relegates others to forum scrubs. Now if thats what your intention is and I believe its probably the intention of a couple then you did the right thing.

So now we have the Elite VIPs and now we have the Elite TPF forum members. So whats the next brainstorm going to be to fragment the forum even more.

If you really have a problem with the way posters post theres other ways to handle it than to insult demean and separate half the forum.

This is my opinion, does it bother me ? no not at all Im just stating how I view it since GRC mentioned it.

Talking about morale, if this isnt a morale busting idea nothing you could come up with is. It certainly doesnt promote forum harmony and cohesion and civility when you split people up and compartment them.
Why don't you ask to be a member?

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 10:28 PM
I'm not sure why people are complaining - you haven't lost anything. There is now a forum that is only comprised of members who agree to behave and have already proven that they can behave, remain on topic or refrain from turning the debate into partisan politics. The forum wouldn't even exist if all of the membership would treat each other with respect. We have lost good members because they had to slog through a million insults to get to the meat of an argument. We thought that we would give those members a place of their own where they could debate a serious topic in good faith. This is one small experimental forum. The rest of the forum has not changed. I note that the people who are complaining the loudest have not even applied to become members.

Right! I don't know what you lost!?!? Just because other people have a right to talk about subjects you morons would fuck up doesn't mean you can't have your fucked up conversations.

I get you. Back of the bus....

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 10:28 PM
Well...damn.

Sorry. I've got a commitment to the truth is all...

Ravens Fan
07-16-2015, 10:30 PM
No and I wouldnt Raven, I think the entire concept is wrong, whether anyone that brainstormed this realizes it or not or maybe they do I dont know. It splits the forum and creates an elite class and a scrub class. This is a public forum and it creates a private club within a public forum, we already have that with the VIPS. I also believe a 75% vote is absurd and the purpose purely exclusionary.
I dont have any problem remaining in the scrub class.


Nope. Been there done that. After I was removed I had no desire to rejoin the "ranks"....

Well, all I can do is invite you. I think you both would be good additions, and would quickly appreciate the absence of children there. But it is what it is.

Common
07-16-2015, 10:32 PM
I'm not sure why people are complaining - you haven't lost anything. There is now a forum that is only comprised of members who agree to behave and have already proven that they can behave, remain on topic or refrain from turning the debate into partisan politics. The forum wouldn't even exist if all of the membership would treat each other with respect. We have lost good members because they had to slog through a million insults to get to the meat of an argument. We thought that we would give those members a place of their own where they could debate a serious topic in good faith. This is one small experimental forum. The rest of the forum has not changed. I note that the people who are complaining the loudest have not even applied to become members.

I dont feel I lost a thing and If you cant understand my position on it from ive written its only because you dont want too Dr Who.

I feel strongly that its wrong to take a public forum and make a private club with the sole purpose of excluding others. Whether or not I would be excluded has nothing to do with my opinion about this.

I understand your premise that you want to select who to converse with without the scrubs interfering with the conversation, no matter what the reason it amounts to a private club that you have to have a 75% vote to be apart of. Sorry I disagree with it.
I havent applied because I do disagree with it. Being a scub Ill have no problems dealing with them.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 10:33 PM
Well, all I can do is invite you. I think you both would be good additions, and would quickly appreciate the absence of children there. But it is what it is.

Who invited me initially. Truly an awesome person. But I got cancer and dropped for about 4 or 5 months. I was removed as a VIP.

To be honest it didn't bother me until I heard Impress Polly was talking about removing Confederate Avatars. Now I grew up in South L.A. I have never with identified nor purported for the Confederate flag. After hearing that, notice my avatar.

Ravens Fan
07-16-2015, 10:39 PM
Who invited me initially. Truly an awesome person. But I got cancer and dropped for about 4 or 5 months. I was removed as a VIP.

To be honest it didn't bother me until I heard Impress Polly was talking about removing Confederate Avatars. Now I grew up in South L.A. I have never with identified nor purported for the Confederate flag. After hearing that, notice my avatar.

This is not VIP, nor anything like it. It is simply an experiment aimed at the more serious posters. I am sorry that you got removed from the VIP's, but this is a different animal altogether. (I do hope everything is ok now healthwise though)

That was a subject that was brought up in the VIP room that didn't get too far. You should know from being a VIP that ideas get brought up from time to time, but that doesn't mean they always gain traction.

Common
07-16-2015, 10:43 PM
Why don't you ask to be a member?

Because I dont want to be a member Dr Who. Regardless of chris and his jabberings.
I dont care about the forum itself and it doesnt offend me personally that doesnt mean I cant have an opinion about it and that is not contradictory. Ive had many things in my life that I defended vigorously that I had no vested interest in real life and my career.

Im getting the impression that the people that started this private club are bristling because a couple have dared to disagree with it? Seriously ?

Ive written clearly what my oppostion to the forum is. I dont know what you cant understand on why Im opposed to it I said quite clearly why. The only snarkiness in this thread was started by Chris to troll and deflect from the criticism.

Im not going to apologize because I think this private 75% vote club isnt the right thing to do.
I also realize what I think means nothing and changes nothing.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 10:45 PM
This is not VIP, nor anything like it. It is simply an experiment aimed at the more serious posters. I am sorry that you got removed from the VIP's, but this is a different animal altogether. (I do hope everything is ok now healthwise though)

That was a subject that was brought up in the VIP room that didn't get too far. You should know from being a VIP that ideas get brought up from time to time, but that doesn't mean they always gain traction.

I don't talk about my health or other personal matters on an internet forum. Something I'm sure I got dropped for but also something I won't compromise. Thank you for asking. All is well at the moment. With cancer it's a day in day out thing. Wait until the next 6 month exam to find out if you're dying.

Regardless, you can surely see the injustice in creating a forum for those who "fit". Inherently that logic is flawed.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 10:47 PM
Why don't you ask to be a member?

Why should he have to? It's a public forum that allows "all forms of perspective" is it not?

del
07-16-2015, 10:47 PM
There is another example of what isn't in the discussion forum.

Thanks for the contribution. :wink:

my pleasure

when the phone doesn't ring, you'll know it's me calling to apply

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 10:47 PM
my pleasure

when the phone doesn't ring, you'll know it's me calling to apply

Damn I wish you would post seriously. Something tells me you're a smart and informed guy.

Dr. Who
07-16-2015, 10:47 PM
Right! I don't know what you lost!?!? Just because other people have a right to talk about subjects you morons would fuck up doesn't mean you can't have your fucked up conversations.

I get you. Back of the bus....
So how come you haven't asked to be a member?

Common
07-16-2015, 10:50 PM
Why should he have to? It's a public forum that allows "all forms of perspective" is it not?

They just arent getting that

del
07-16-2015, 10:51 PM
Why? What does this, outside of your reference to Reddit, have to do with Reddit?

nothing, probably

Common
07-16-2015, 10:53 PM
Damn I wish you would post seriously. Something tells me you're a smart and informed guy.

he is, and I like del but hes the proverbial turd thrower that would be excluded. See my point ?
Theres alot of good people on the forum that wouldnt be voted in for popularity because of the 75% rule I realize there is a portion thats only goal in life is to derail and screw everything up. That is not the majority. There are many that are good that would be marginalized if not YOU would have everyone but a handful of the forum in a private club.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 10:54 PM
So how come you haven't asked to be a member?

Who... Apparently this Discussion Forum is made up of people the Mods consider to be appropriate for the discussion. Who am I to presume I would be appropriate?

Dr. Who
07-16-2015, 10:54 PM
I dont feel I lost a thing and If you cant understand my position on it from ive written its only because you dont want too Dr Who.

I feel strongly that its wrong to take a public forum and make a private club with the sole purpose of excluding others. Whether or not I would be excluded has nothing to do with my opinion about this.

I understand your premise that you want to select who to converse with without the scrubs interfering with the conversation, no matter what the reason it amounts to a private club that you have to have a 75% vote to be apart of. Sorry I disagree with it.
I havent applied because I do disagree with it. Being a scub Ill have no problems dealing with them.
If you disagree with our experiment, and don't want to apply then why complain? We have had groups on this forum for a long time. They are private forums by invitation only. This forum asks for applicants. If it works it will remain, if it doesn't we will eliminate it. The only difference between the former and the latter is that this will appear on What's New.

del
07-16-2015, 10:55 PM
Damn I wish you would post seriously. Something tells me you're a smart and informed guy.

that's not why i'm here.

i am.

Common
07-16-2015, 10:57 PM
I don't talk about my health or other personal matters on an internet forum. Something I'm sure I got dropped for but also something I won't compromise. Thank you for asking. All is well at the moment. With cancer it's a day in day out thing. Wait until the next 6 month exam to find out if you're dying.

Regardless, you can surely see the injustice in creating a forum for those who "fit". Inherently that logic is flawed.

I didnt know you had cancer Pickle, godspeed and the best

del
07-16-2015, 10:57 PM
he is, and I like del but hes the proverbial turd thrower that would be excluded. See my point ?
Theres alot of good people on the forum that wouldnt be voted in for popularity because of the 75% rule I realize there is a portion thats only goal in life is to derail and screw everything up. That is not the majority. There are many that are good that would be marginalized if not YOU would have everyone but a handful of the forum in a private club.

i could only be excluded if i applied, and i can assure you i have no desire to do so.

i spend all day with people who seek to impress me with their awesome cognitive skills; i have no need to do it in my spare time.

don't cry for me, argentina :)

del
07-16-2015, 10:59 PM
I didnt know you had cancer Pickle, godspeed and the best

aye

Dr. Who
07-16-2015, 10:59 PM
Why should he have to? It's a public forum that allows "all forms of perspective" is it not?
Well this is a sub-forum where applying indicates an agreement to behave in a civil manner all the time, not just when the argument is going your way. Members who are not interested in the restrictions need not apply. It's not going to be the mods evicting members for bad behavior, it will be the members themselves.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 11:01 PM
that's not why i'm here.

i am.

I'll just keep on hating on you then. Match made in paradise.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 11:01 PM
I didnt know you had cancer Pickle, godspeed and the best

Lets move on.

del
07-16-2015, 11:02 PM
I'll just keep on hating on you then. Match made in paradise.

works for me

Common
07-16-2015, 11:02 PM
If you disagree with our experiment, and don't want to apply then why complain? We have had groups on this forum for a long time. They are private forums by invitation only. This forum asks for applicants. If it works it will remain, if it doesn't we will eliminate it. The only difference between the former and the latter is that this will appear on What's New.

Because I can complain and You nor anyone else is going to tell me what I can and cant say. Just ban me if you want to try and stifle me.

This is a private club creation with a 75% vip vote in. The other forums are PERSONAL private forums invite only, they are not the same and you know it.

I

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 11:13 PM
Well this is a sub-forum where applying indicates an agreement to behave in a civil manner all the time, not just when the argument is going your way. Members who are not interested in the restrictions need not apply. It's not going to be the mods evicting members for bad behavior, it will be the members themselves.

Why the "application"? Why not open to all and let it be self-moderated?

Sorry. Not buying it.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 11:16 PM
works for me

Late night Cinemax works for you. But thanks.

Common
07-16-2015, 11:21 PM
i could only be excluded if i applied, and i can assure you i have no desire to do so.

i spend all day with people who seek to impress me with their awesome cognitive skills; i have no need to do it in my spare time.

don't cry for me, argentina :)

Im not smart enough to know when someone is trying to impress me, so I have no choice but to remain below those above my station here

The Xl
07-16-2015, 11:36 PM
Now that I think about it, I do think the way this has gone about has been wrong. Instead of banning trolls from discussions, a group has been created where the benefit of the doubt isn't given to some members, but is to others, as VIPs are instantly approved for the board, and regular posters aren't. It does make it seem very popularity contest ish. Quite frankly, and I'm not even talking about myself, but there are a solid amount of regular posters who are better and more active than a decent number of VIPs, and for them to need to request permission to be allowed the privilege of discussing "serious" things is nonsense and an insult. A select group of popular posters dictating it at a 75% clip is also nonsense and the mark of a popularity contest, in my opinion. On that note, I'm rescinding my request to join the discussion forums. I'll stay with the commoners, even if it means I have to put up with the trolls too.

I'm not going to whine and cry about it any further, I think it's gone on long enough, be it from myself or anyone else.

Private Pickle
07-16-2015, 11:40 PM
Now that I think about it, I do think the way this has gone about has been wrong. Instead of banning trolls from discussions, a group has been created where the benefit of the doubt isn't given to some members, but is to others, as VIPs are instantly approved for the board, and regular posters aren't. It does make it seem very popularity contest ish. Quite frankly, and I'm not even talking about myself, but there are a solid amount of regular posters who are better and more active than a decent number of VIPs, and for them to need to request permission to be allowed the privilege of discussing "serious" things is nonsense and an insult. A select group of popular posters dictating it at a 75% clip is also nonsense and the mark of a popularity contest, in my opinion. On that note, I'm rescinding my request to join the discussion forums. I'll stay with the commoners, even if it means I have to put up with the trolls too.

I'm not going to whine and cry about it any further, I think it's gone on long enough, be it from myself or anyone else.

Comstitutional rights thinking. It's what's for dinner.

Common
07-16-2015, 11:44 PM
Now that I think about it, I do think the way this has gone about has been wrong. Instead of banning trolls from discussions, a group has been created where the benefit of the doubt isn't given to some members, but is to others, as VIPs are instantly approved for the board, and regular posters aren't. It does make it seem very popularity contest ish. Quite frankly, and I'm not even talking about myself, but there are a solid amount of regular posters who are better and more active than a decent number of VIPs, and for them to need to request permission to be allowed the privilege of discussing "serious" things is nonsense and an insult. A select group of popular posters dictating it at a 75% clip is also nonsense and the mark of a popularity contest, in my opinion. On that note, I'm rescinding my request to join the discussion forums. I'll stay with the commoners, even if it means I have to put up with the trolls too.

I'm not going to whine and cry about it any further, I think it's gone on long enough, be it from myself or anyone else.

My positon on it is the same, you said it better

Ethereal
07-17-2015, 12:15 AM
that's not why i'm here.

A forum member openly admitting that they are not here to make serious posts.

Yet there is almost no chance that they will be dealt with in the appropriate manner.

del
07-17-2015, 12:32 AM
A forum member openly admitting that they are not here to make serious posts.

Yet there is almost no chance that they will be dealt with in the appropriate manner.

l'enfer, c'est les autres

gamewell45
07-17-2015, 02:43 AM
has your chlamydia cleared up?

LOL it's getting rough in here tonight!

Chris
07-17-2015, 08:55 AM
LOL, I leave and Dr. Who becomes the target. Let's clear some things up.

One, this is not a public forum, it is a private one, owned by ADMIN, paid for in part if not whole by Google Ads and private contributions--that's what the Contribute button is for. Thus free speech does not apply even though no one here is prohibited for giving their opinion so long as it is legal. The new discussion area does not restrict your freedom. Those who make a habit of trashing discussions might consider whether they are restricting others' freedom.

Two, I didn't decide, design and create the new area, nor did Who, nor did Peter. We did, here's how. The mods get complaints all the time serious discussion here is impossible because someone will trash it. So I came up with an idea that would have been applied to all areas under On the Serious Side that we discussed for a while and then took to the VIP room. There in the course of discussion among VIPs and Mods we came up with an alternative of what is now the tPF Discussion Room and spent a good deal of time working out how it would work. Yes, we recognized that some would complain as some have and already developed the responses they have been getting. Moving forward, the members of the group will decide and design the area and how it works.

(Two is just like when certain people get infracted, they blame the one who informed them when in fact there's a team consensus behind every warning, thread ban, and other mod action.)

Three, it's not going away unless it fails of it's own accord. But what if it works, what if enough members join in and we have good discussions without anyone trashing it? What if over time more and more members decide that's how they want the forum to be? What if the trashers and trolls become few and far between? Who would complain?

GrassrootsConservative
07-17-2015, 09:30 AM
Now that I think about it, I do think the way this has gone about has been wrong. Instead of banning trolls from discussions, a group has been created where the benefit of the doubt isn't given to some members, but is to others, as VIPs are instantly approved for the board, and regular posters aren't. It does make it seem very popularity contest ish. Quite frankly, and I'm not even talking about myself, but there are a solid amount of regular posters who are better and more active than a decent number of VIPs, and for them to need to request permission to be allowed the privilege of discussing "serious" things is nonsense and an insult. A select group of popular posters dictating it at a 75% clip is also nonsense and the mark of a popularity contest, in my opinion. On that note, I'm rescinding my request to join the discussion forums. I'll stay with the commoners, even if it means I have to put up with the trolls too.

I'm not going to whine and cry about it any further, I think it's gone on long enough, be it from myself or anyone else.

You and I have held our same views on this from day one:


Exclusionary garbage like the "tPF intelligentsia" group or whatever.

Have your fun, guys, I'll continue to operate where all discussion is welcome.

And you in that thread also expressed concern. It's interesting that we're not allowed to discuss there, yet the discussion is forced down our throats anyway. That's why the hole is nice, you don't have to see that garbage if you don't want to. But everyone has to see the Tpf discussion forum whether they are part of that exclusionary bunch of elitists or not.

Chris
07-17-2015, 09:42 AM
You're free to discuss any topic and express any opinion. No one is forcing you to do anything.

PolWatch
07-17-2015, 09:44 AM
No one is forced to post or read any thread.

Calypso Jones
07-17-2015, 09:52 AM
how can you not when it's right there in front of you.

Chris
07-17-2015, 10:04 AM
how can you not when it's right there in front of you.

By not reading it, an act of sheer will power. Or are you telling us you have none and must read each and every post on the forum. --If that were the case then you would never have time to come back and reply to my question.

GrassrootsConservative
07-17-2015, 10:30 AM
By not reading it, an act of sheer will power. Or are you telling us you have none and must read each and every post on the forum. --If that were the case then you would never have time to come back and reply to my question.

In the What's New section is where I find most of the threads I post in.

If I read a post there and go to respond and can't because it's in the Exclusionary Elitist section that definitely feels like I have been both forced and tricked. I didn't want to read that, I don't care about it, and it's not in any way relevant to me, but I have read it and then can't portray my thoughts on the matter in any way.

Venus
07-17-2015, 10:33 AM
Is the beginning of the end.

If this experiment doesn't fail, the forum as a whole will.

Chris
07-17-2015, 10:36 AM
In the What's New section is where I find most of the threads I post in.

If I read a post there and go to respond and can't because it's in the Exclusionary Elitist section that definitely feels like I have been both forced and tricked. I didn't want to read that, I don't care about it, and it's not in any way relevant to me, but I have read it and then can't portray my thoughts on the matter in any way.


OK, so if I remove all the emotive language about elitist etc, I hear you saying you go to post in a thread in the tpf discussion area and find you cannot. That's been addressed several times: You are free to put your post in a new thread.

Chris
07-17-2015, 10:37 AM
Is the beginning of the end.

If this experiment doesn't fail, the forum as a whole will.



Not sure I understand.

Peter1469
07-17-2015, 10:38 AM
I can't imagine anyone must read anything they see. There are some members who start threads that remain completely unread by me, unless there is a report associated with it.

Other alternatives would include using thread bans fast an hard throughout the forum. When one is theadbanned they still get new posts in What's New.

Venus
07-17-2015, 11:03 AM
Not sure I understand.


It's been my experience, when "all inclusive" forums such as this one has tried to limit speech in this fashion, the fighting, name calling, trollish and snarky behavior increases. Especially when "privileged" members are allowed to continue being snarky and trollish on the main forum.

It doesn't work. Bitter feelings get in the way.

Peter1469
07-17-2015, 11:05 AM
Snark is allowed everywhere else. It is what most people want. I use it from time to time.

Calypso Jones
07-17-2015, 11:08 AM
By not reading it, an act of sheer will power. Or are you telling us you have none and must read each and every post on the forum. --If that were the case then you would never have time to come back and reply to my question.

this sounds remarkably like the argument that pro-homosexual rights folk use on the general public...if you don't like it don't look at it. You can't get away from this. when ever the non elite sees a topic he is reminded that he is not one of the chosen and he can't post in it. I can think of nothing that would engender poster satisfaction more. Okay. Carry on. LOLOLOL

Venus
07-17-2015, 11:08 AM
Snark is allowed everywhere else. It is what most people want. I use it from time to time.

I'm sure you'll see more of it.

Chris
07-17-2015, 11:10 AM
It's been my experience, when "all inclusive" forums such as this one has tried to limit speech in this fashion, the fighting, name calling, trollish and snarky behavior increases. Especially when "privileged" members are allowed to continue being snarky and trollish on the main forum.

It doesn't work. Bitter feelings get in the way.


OK, we'll see. I ran a forum some years ago and that was the death of it, when some members decided you couldn't express negative opinions on some topics, specifically about Christianity. Speech was inddep limited. It died.

However, we're not limiting anyone's speech on anything.

As for the privileged, report them. We're not going to moderate the occasional snark, but a pattern of snarky disruptions will be once it's on our radar--we don't read everything, so reports help.

Thanks!

Chris
07-17-2015, 11:14 AM
this sounds remarkably like the argument that pro-homosexual rights folk use on the general public...if you don't like it don't look at it. You can't get away from this. when ever the non elite sees a topic he is reminded that he is not one of the chosen and he can't post in it. I can think of nothing that would engender poster satisfaction more. Okay. Carry on. LOLOLOL

Interesting analogy. Are you attracted to gays the way you are good discussions but frustrated you can't join in? Didn't think out the implications to far, did you.

PolWatch
07-17-2015, 11:17 AM
We have seen several members say they don't want to belong to the discussion group. Not a problem. Now, we have some who want to object to seeing the discussion group. How many of the same people were outspoken on the battle flag last week? How many were outraged that some don't want to even SEE the flag and wanted to impose their will on others? hmmmm?

Safety
07-17-2015, 11:18 AM
Interesting analogy. Are you attracted to gays the way you are good discussions but frustrated you can't join in? Didn't think out the implications to far, did you.

Yea, I would say that one backfired...

Safety
07-17-2015, 11:19 AM
We have seen several members say they don't want to belong to the discussion group. Not a problem. Now, we have some who want to object to seeing the discussion group. How many of the same people were outspoken on the battle flag last week? How many were outraged that some don't want to even SEE the flag and wanted to impose their will on others? hmmmm?

I knew it would come around again. It always does.

PolWatch
07-17-2015, 11:19 AM
I knew it would come around again. It always does.

but, but, but....sound familiar?

Safety
07-17-2015, 11:22 AM
but, but, but....sound familiar?

Too familiar, maybe we can start a gofundme on "told ya so's"?

Venus
07-17-2015, 11:25 AM
OK, we'll see. I ran a forum some years ago and that was the death of it, when some members decided you couldn't express negative opinions on some topics, specifically about Christianity. Speech was inddep limited. It died.

However, we're not limiting anyone's speech on anything.

As for the privileged, report them. We're not going to moderate the occasional snark, but a pattern of snarky disruptions will be once it's on our radar--we don't read everything, so reports help.

Thanks!

But you are limited someone's speech, you may not see as such, but you are. You are excluding some members in an inclusive forum. That's limiting someone's speech.

I'm sure you guys will be busy with reports, some warrantied but most won't be. IMO, when the powers that be give the green light to allow some members to act one way (negative) in the main area and only positive in the privileged area, people are going to be pissed. It's called favoritism and it doesn't look good on any forum.

Ravens Fan
07-17-2015, 11:38 AM
But you are limited someone's speech, you may not see as such, but you are. You are excluding some members in an inclusive forum. That's limiting someone's speech.

I'm sure you guys will be busy with reports, some warrantied but most won't be. IMO, when the powers that be give the green light to allow some members to act one way (negative) in the main area and only positive in the privileged area, people are going to be pissed. It's called favoritism and it doesn't look good on any forum.

There is no limiting of speech. See a topic on there you want to add to? Start a thread on the main forum. Speak all you like. (or just ask to be a member... it really is that easy:smiley:)

This is no green light for anybody. Moderation is not changing. It is however, a way to keep from having to become more strict on the main forum and still retain those who are sick of the trolls.

Calypso Jones
07-17-2015, 11:39 AM
Interesting analogy. Are you attracted to gays the way you are good discussions but frustrated you can't join in? Didn't think out the implications to far, did you.

dude. don't be blaming me that your idea has hit the skids and the natives are restless.

The Xl
07-17-2015, 11:39 AM
If the trolls have been deemed such a problem that they interfere with serious discussion, something every subforum should be striving for, why not just ban the trolls?

Venus
07-17-2015, 11:41 AM
There is no limiting of speech. See a topic on there you want to add to? Start a thread on the main forum. Speak all you like. (or just ask to be a member... it really is that easy:smiley:)

This is no green light for anybody. Moderation is not changing. It is however, a way to keep from having to become more strict on the main forum and still retain those who are sick of the trolls.


OK

PolWatch
07-17-2015, 11:44 AM
Because we keep hoping they will see the advantages to change their posting habits. We do not ban people except in extreme situations. I would rather see someone stay and observe the rules rather than kick them out without a chance to reform. There are lots of forums that practice the 'my way or the highway' method. That is not what tPF tries to do.

The Xl
07-17-2015, 11:54 AM
Because we keep hoping they will see the advantages to change their posting habits. We do not ban people except in extreme situations. I would rather see someone stay and observe the rules rather than kick them out without a chance to reform. There are lots of forums that practice the 'my way or the highway' method. That is not what tPF tries to do.

But you're acknowledging that they're straight up trolls. It has nothing to do with viewpoints or even being a little rowdy. You guys are aware that they're flat out trolls.

Chris
07-17-2015, 11:55 AM
But you are limited someone's speech, you may not see as such, but you are. You are excluding some members in an inclusive forum. That's limiting someone's speech.

I'm sure you guys will be busy with reports, some warrantied but most won't be. IMO, when the powers that be give the green light to allow some members to act one way (negative) in the main area and only positive in the privileged area, people are going to be pissed. It's called favoritism and it doesn't look good on any forum.


How? If I didn't belong to that group and wanted to post an opinion on a topic there, I'd simply start a new thread elsewhere to say it. I'm not limited in speech at all.

Consider. You have free speech. So I get up on my soapbox in a public park and start speaking. What you are saying is because you cannot get up on my soapbox you are not free to speak, when you are free to bring your own soapbox and stand on it. The limitation is merely space.


If you don't report we might not see it. Like I said above I read perhaps 2-3% of posts.

Chris
07-17-2015, 11:57 AM
We try to moderate lightly. It's in our guidelines written by ADMIN.

If we started moderating more heavily my hunch is those complaining the loudest here would be the ones complaining loudest about excessive moderation.

Chris
07-17-2015, 11:58 AM
dude. don't be blaming me that your idea has hit the skids and the natives are restless.

Dude, lol.

It hasn't.

And it was a lousy analogy.

Chris
07-17-2015, 11:59 AM
If the trolls have been deemed such a problem that they interfere with serious discussion, something every subforum should be striving for, why not just ban the trolls?

Our guidelines say light moderation.

But it's tempting.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 12:05 PM
Can't wait until the elite start talking about the plebs in a forum where the plebs can't respond. Should be fun.

Peter1469
07-17-2015, 12:06 PM
Can't wait until the elite start talking about the plebs in a forum where the plebs can't respond. Should be fun.

If that happens I will delete those comments, or Hole them.

Chris
07-17-2015, 12:07 PM
Can't wait until the elite start talking about the plebs in a forum where the plebs can't respond. Should be fun.

If you see that, report it. I would consider that against the rules, a call out, or worse because the person cannot respond. It would also be kind of nonsensically off topic. Say we're talking about Civil War causes, why would I suddently mention Pickle? Makes no sense.

PolWatch
07-17-2015, 12:16 PM
But you're acknowledging that they're straight up trolls. It has nothing to do with viewpoints or even being a little rowdy. You guys are aware that they're flat out trolls.

yes....some are trolls but they don't usually last too long. Most are regular people who get angry and forget their self-control for a little bit. Unless they continue to exhibit the same out-of-control behavior, would it make any sense to kick someone out because they over-reacted a couple of times? We are all adults. Politics inspires a lot of passion and sometimes we all go over the cliff or at least hover on the edge. I would rather see the members exercise control via peer pressure than have to step in as a mod.

Venus
07-17-2015, 12:17 PM
How? If I didn't belong to that group and wanted to post an opinion on a topic there, I'd simply start a new thread elsewhere to say it. I'm not limited in speech at all.

Consider. You have free speech. So I get up on my soapbox in a public park and start speaking. What you are saying is because you cannot get up on my soapbox you are not free to speak, when you are free to bring your own soapbox and stand on it. The limitation is merely space.


If you don't report we might not see it. Like I said above I read perhaps 2-3% of posts.


OK

Peter1469
07-17-2015, 12:23 PM
And some people like to joke and make light of things. That is fine too.

Chris
07-17-2015, 12:28 PM
OK

Your comments were appreciated. You've never been infracted or even warned, have you?

PolWatch
07-17-2015, 12:29 PM
We have a wide variety of members. Some are very serious about the subjects and don't want any dilution of a thread. Some post for amusement....they really don't take anything too seriously. Some don't want to discuss, they want to scream others down and declare themselves the winner. Most of us bounce from one description to another, depending on the topics. Others only show up to provoke and cause problems. Herding cats is the best description I can offer....we try to keep things civil and relatively on track. The only ones that are not welcome are the trouble-makers and they are usually pretty easy to spot. The problems occur when the trouble makers provoke others into similarly bad behavior.

The new sub-forum is not for the 'elite' nor is it a popularity contest. We have the private groups as requested by members and the new discussion group is an attempt to provide an area that members have requested.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 12:31 PM
If you see that, report it. I would consider that against the rules, a call out, or worse because the person cannot respond. It would also be kind of nonsensically off topic. Say we're talking about Civil War causes, why would I suddently mention Pickle? Makes no sense.

Why would I bother reading posts I can't reply to? Nah, I'll leave the mods to it.

If you don't think it's going to happen I think you're mistaken. At this point I really don't care. Just a forum I will ignore.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 12:33 PM
We have a wide variety of members. Some are very serious about the subjects and don't want any dilution of a thread. Some post for amusement....they really don't take anything too seriously. Some don't want to discuss, they want to scream others down and declare themselves the winner. Most of us bounce from one description to another, depending on the topics. Others only show up to provoke and cause problems. Herding cats is the best description I can offer....we try to keep things civil and relatively on track. The only ones that are not welcome are the trouble-makers and they are usually pretty easy to spot. The problems occur when the trouble makers provoke others into similarly bad behavior.

The new sub-forum is not for the 'elite' nor is it a popularity contest. We have the private groups as requested by members and the new discussion group is an attempt to provide an area that members have requested.

Seems to me, if the trouble makers are easy to spot then they would be easy to ban. Why would this forum allow trouble makers rather to solve the problem create a sub-forum with non-trouble makers. It makes no sense.

del
07-17-2015, 12:33 PM
still?

go outside

PolWatch
07-17-2015, 12:36 PM
Seems to me, if the trouble makers are easy to spot then they would be easy to ban. Why would this forum allow trouble makers rather to solve the problem create a sub-forum with non-trouble makers. It makes no sense.

Because sometimes the trouble makers are people who are having a bad day, reacting to a topic that is very personal to them, multiple reasons. Eventually the trouble makers are rooted out but banning someone is never the first option.

Peter1469
07-17-2015, 12:36 PM
Seems to me, if the trouble makers are easy to spot then they would be easy to ban. Why would this forum allow trouble makers rather to solve the problem create a sub-forum with non-trouble makers. It makes no sense.

The real trouble makers do get banned. We don't publish it when we do it.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 12:38 PM
Because sometimes the trouble makers are people who are having a bad day, reacting to a topic that is very personal to them, multiple reasons. Eventually the trouble makers are rooted out but banning someone is never the first option.

So you're saying if someone has a bad day they can't join the elite. Got it.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 12:39 PM
The real trouble makers do get banned. We don't publish it when we do it.

So why the need for a private forum?

Safety
07-17-2015, 12:41 PM
So you're saying if someone has a bad day they can't join the elite. Got it.

Well, how would you know if you don't apply?

PolWatch
07-17-2015, 12:44 PM
So you're saying if someone has a bad day they can't join the elite. Got it.

hyperbole much? I was saying that because someone is having a bad day they should not be banned from the forum. If their behavior is consistently bad, their value to the forum will be re-evaluated. Remember, the violations are reported by members. Admission to the discussion group depends on how the other members view their behavior. Is the person consistently a stinker or is this unusual?

Chris
07-17-2015, 12:49 PM
So you're saying if someone has a bad day they can't join the elite. Got it.

No. I explained what we as mods look for is patterns of bad behavior. If now and then you tell someone they're stupid, well, we'd let that slide. But if you go around from thread to thread, day after day, doing that, if it's your signature so to speak, we will take note. I would imagine the same goes for the new group, they will look at overall behavior. I can't speak for everyone though.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 01:25 PM
Well, how would you know if you don't apply?

I am gonna pass on principle.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 01:26 PM
hyperbole much? I was saying that because someone is having a bad day they should not be banned from the forum. If their behavior is consistently bad, their value to the forum will be re-evaluated. Remember, the violations are reported by members. Admission to the discussion group depends on how the other members view their behavior. Is the person consistently a stinker or is this unusual?

Yeah...I get it...

Venus
07-17-2015, 02:28 PM
Your comments were appreciated. You've never been infracted or even warned, have you?


Green arrow warned me once, I was trolling one of cigars thread. What happened, I posted more cartoons than cigar and that wasn't acceptable

Chris
07-17-2015, 02:34 PM
Green arrow warned me once, I was trolling one of cigars thread. What happened, I posted more cartoons than cigar and that wasn't acceptable

That's terrible! :geez:

Venus
07-17-2015, 02:41 PM
That's terrible! :geez:


It was, I was traumatized for days!

:)

magicmike
07-17-2015, 04:12 PM
Now that I think about it, I do think the way this has gone about has been wrong. Instead of banning trolls from discussions, a group has been created where the benefit of the doubt isn't given to some members, but is to others, as VIPs are instantly approved for the board, and regular posters aren't. It does make it seem very popularity contest ish. Quite frankly, and I'm not even talking about myself, but there are a solid amount of regular posters who are better and more active than a decent number of VIPs, and for them to need to request permission to be allowed the privilege of discussing "serious" things is nonsense and an insult. A select group of popular posters dictating it at a 75% clip is also nonsense and the mark of a popularity contest, in my opinion. On that note, I'm rescinding my request to join the discussion forums. I'll stay with the commoners, even if it means I have to put up with the trolls too.

I'm not going to whine and cry about it any further, I think it's gone on long enough, be it from myself or anyone else.

You get it, others get it, Common gets it, Private Pickle gets it, heck even GrassrootsConservative gets it. (Sorry I didn't read the entire 20 pages or so.)

Yet this mod and all the other mods just don't get it!


I'm not sure why people are complaining - you haven't lost anything. There is now a forum that is only comprised of members who agree to behave and have already proven that they can behave, remain on topic or refrain from turning the debate into partisan politics. The forum wouldn't even exist if all of the membership would treat each other with respect. We have lost good members because they had to slog through a million insults to get to the meat of an argument. We thought that we would give those members a place of their own where they could debate a serious topic in good faith. This is one small experimental forum. The rest of the forum has not changed. I note that the people who are complaining the loudest have not even applied to become members.

I applied. Why? Because I'd like to think I'm capable of intelligent, thoughtful, discourse.

Until the trolls show up. Then, like everyone else attacked, I (we) react in a like manner. It would be nice to have that intelligent discourse without responding to trolls (and according to the trolls like Mister D and Ravens Fan if you put them on Ignore, then you're attacked again and called a coward running away.

@ADMIN (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1): Do your mods know how insulting and degrading to members of a forum to tell them; "You're not good enough to discuss topics with us."? Do you, as admin of this forum, understand the inanity of dangling this carrot in the faces of your posters?

Here's an idea. Do your jobs. Go back to threadbanning troublemakers and other things. And be fair. Cut the "Well, so and so isn't being insulting, its snark! And snarks OK!

The truth is those people are just like everyone getting the Threadbans, etc, but their VIPs or buddies of the mods - or even mods. And are members of this exclusive club.

So, yeah. The complainers are right. Set up all the little backroom forum's the regulars can't see, talk about us all you want.

If that's what your ego needs.

Funny thing. Before Howie shut down his forum I checked it out. And I figured out why it died. It ended up being a group of politically like minded people saying the same old things and slapping themselves on their collective backs. And eventually just drifted away.

That's what's going to happen here.

As for me, meh. I'll look around for another forum where everyone's appreciated, not just a select few.

And finally, I'm not Howie. And I'm not gay.

magicmike
07-17-2015, 04:12 PM
Now that I think about it, I do think the way this has gone about has been wrong. Instead of banning trolls from discussions, a group has been created where the benefit of the doubt isn't given to some members, but is to others, as VIPs are instantly approved for the board, and regular posters aren't. It does make it seem very popularity contest ish. Quite frankly, and I'm not even talking about myself, but there are a solid amount of regular posters who are better and more active than a decent number of VIPs, and for them to need to request permission to be allowed the privilege of discussing "serious" things is nonsense and an insult. A select group of popular posters dictating it at a 75% clip is also nonsense and the mark of a popularity contest, in my opinion. On that note, I'm rescinding my request to join the discussion forums. I'll stay with the commoners, even if it means I have to put up with the trolls too.

I'm not going to whine and cry about it any further, I think it's gone on long enough, be it from myself or anyone else.

You get it, others get it, Common gets it, Private Pickle gets it, heck even @Grassroots Conservative gets it. (Sorry I didn't read the entire 20 pages or so.)

Yet this mod and all the other mods just don't get it!


I'm not sure why people are complaining - you haven't lost anything. There is now a forum that is only comprised of members who agree to behave and have already proven that they can behave, remain on topic or refrain from turning the debate into partisan politics. The forum wouldn't even exist if all of the membership would treat each other with respect. We have lost good members because they had to slog through a million insults to get to the meat of an argument. We thought that we would give those members a place of their own where they could debate a serious topic in good faith. This is one small experimental forum. The rest of the forum has not changed. I note that the people who are complaining the loudest have not even applied to become members.

I applied. Why? Because I'd like to think I'm capable of intelligent, thoughtful, discourse.

Until the trolls show up. Then, like everyone else attacked, I (we) react in a like manner. It would be nice to have that intelligent discourse without responding to trolls (and according to the trolls like Mister D and Ravens Fan if you put them on Ignore, then you're attacked again and called a coward running away.
ADMIN: Do your mods know how insulting and degrading to members of a forum to tell them; "You're not good enough to discuss topics with us."? Do you, as admin of this forum, understand the insanity of dangling this carrot in the faces of your posters?

Here's an idea. Do your jobs. Go back to threadbanning troublemakers and other things. And be fair. Cut the "Well, so and so isn't being insulting, its snark! And snarks OK!

The truth is those people are just like everyone getting the Threadbans, etc, but their VIPs or buddies of the mods - or even mods. And are members of this exclusive club.

So, yeah. The complainers are right. Set up all the little backroom forum's the regulars can't see, talk about us all you want.

If that's what your ego needs.

Funny thing. Before Howie shut down his forum I checked it out. And I figured out why it died. It ended up being a group of politically like minded people saying the same old things and slapping themselves on their collective backs. And eventually just drifted away.

That's what's going to happen here.

As for me, meh. I'll look around for another forum where everyone's appreciated, not just a select few.

Chris
07-17-2015, 04:15 PM
magic, go to http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/47692-Hide-the-Tpf-discussion-forum-from-me-please?p=1181804&viewfull=1#post1181804

It's not just mods.

Were we to do as you wish and start thread banning you'd be TBed.

magicmike
07-17-2015, 04:17 PM
The real trouble makers do get banned. We don't publish it when we do it.

Speaking of Howie, why was he banned?

magicmike
07-17-2015, 04:19 PM
I'm not sure why people are complaining - you haven't lost anything. There is now a forum that is only comprised of members who agree to behave and have already proven that they can behave, remain on topic or refrain from turning the debate into partisan politics. The forum wouldn't even exist if all of the membership would treat each other with respect. We have lost good members because they had to slog through a million insults to get to the meat of an argument. We thought that we would give those members a place of their own where they could debate a serious topic in good faith. This is one small experimental forum. The rest of the forum has not changed. I note that the people who are complaining the loudest have not even applied to become members.


magic, go to http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/47692-Hide-the-Tpf-discussion-forum-from-me-please?p=1181804&viewfull=1#post1181804

It's not just mods.

Were we to do as you wish and start thread banning you'd be TBed.
Lol

Chris
07-17-2015, 04:20 PM
Speaking of Howie, why was he banned?

Use PMs.

Chris
07-17-2015, 04:21 PM
Lol

I'm not joking.

del
07-17-2015, 04:22 PM
posts whining about/justifying discussion forum=200

posts in discussion forum-74


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjVWORC3Wcc

:biglaugh:

The Xl
07-17-2015, 04:24 PM
Speaking of Howie, why was he banned?

You tell us.

Mister D
07-17-2015, 04:26 PM
Howey was banned cuz he's gay. We don't like them kind around here.

del
07-17-2015, 04:26 PM
I'm not joking.

ooooooooooh

scary

Peter1469
07-17-2015, 04:27 PM
So why the need for a private forum?

Have you read the thread?

Chris
07-17-2015, 04:27 PM
posts whining about/justifying discussion forum=200

posts in discussion forum-74


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjVWORC3Wcc

:biglaugh:



Whiners ftw!

Chris
07-17-2015, 04:28 PM
ooooooooooh

scary

You have trouble reading tone, don't you. Whiners tend to.

magicmike
07-17-2015, 04:29 PM
You tell us.

How would I know? I'm not him.

del
07-17-2015, 04:30 PM
Whiners ftw!

the whining isn't confined to one side.

carry on

Safety
07-17-2015, 04:30 PM
This thread has officially turned gay.

Mister D
07-17-2015, 04:31 PM
This thread has officially turned gay.

Oh, I see. Perhaps Howey's ban should be lifted now?

del
07-17-2015, 04:32 PM
You have trouble reading tone, don't you. Whiners tend to.

:biglaugh:

the queen of passive aggression is calling me a whiner

too funny

another six brains and you'd have a half dozen.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 04:32 PM
Have you read the thread?

Yeah. Premise being people will see constructive dialogue and then magically become constructive themselves. Problem is, who is going to read a forum they can't post in?

Anyhoo, I'm done. Enjoy the Box Seats.

Chris
07-17-2015, 04:34 PM
Yeah. Premise being people will see constructive dialogue and then magically become constructive themselves. Problem is, who is going to read a forum they can't post in?

Anyhoo, I'm done. Enjoy the Box Seats.


Some do and have made requests to join. Don't assume everyone thinks like you do. Everyone's different.

Chris
07-17-2015, 04:35 PM
:biglaugh:

the queen of passive aggression is calling me a whiner

too funny

another six brains and you'd have a half dozen.


Oh, my, I'm devastated, del has tried to insult me. What will I ever do!?!?

Mister D
07-17-2015, 04:35 PM
Yeah. Premise being people will see constructive dialogue and then magically become constructive themselves. Problem is, who is going to read a forum they can't post in?

Anyhoo, I'm done. Enjoy the Box Seats.

It depends on the poster. Cigar has been shamed into attempting constructive dialogue by Safety It was deeply unsettling watching Cigar try to be serious but that's neither here nor there. The point is it will work with some not with others.

del
07-17-2015, 04:44 PM
Oh, my, I'm devastated, del has tried to insult me. What will I ever do!?!?

nothing

same as always

del
07-17-2015, 04:45 PM
This thread has officially turned gay.

that was about 210 posts earlier

Chris
07-17-2015, 04:52 PM
nothing

same as always


You're right. Your insults mean nothing.

Dr. Who
07-17-2015, 05:34 PM
Who invited me initially. Truly an awesome person. But I got cancer and dropped for about 4 or 5 months. I was removed as a VIP.

To be honest it didn't bother me until I heard Impress Polly was talking about removing Confederate Avatars. Now I grew up in South L.A. I have never with identified nor purported for the Confederate flag. After hearing that, notice my avatar.
I never knew about the cancer. We just thought you left the forum - some people do. I'm very sorry to hear that you had to go through that. Had we known, we would never have removed you.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 06:18 PM
Some do and have made requests to join. Don't assume everyone thinks like you do. Everyone's different.

Oh what a tangled web we weave...

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 06:19 PM
I never knew about the cancer. We just thought you left the forum - some people do. I'm very sorry to hear that you had to go through that. Had we known, we would never have removed you.

It's no big deal and doesn't matter. I'm sorry I brought it up.

Dr. Who
07-17-2015, 07:52 PM
I give a shit and have complained about not being able to have a civil conversation devoid of name-calling and political party dropping. Yet I don't get an invite. Not that I would accept it at this point because the whole thing smells like shit now.

You Mods have to land your plane. Either create rules against name-calling and trolling or don't but the worst possible thing this site could do is to selectively choose members that, in their opinion, debate like they like to debate.

Fucking A this is slap you in the face clear....
No one was invited. It's by application only.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 07:55 PM
No one was invited. It's by application only.

Yeah. I know. Personally I think it's insulting that I have to apply to a "cool only" club. Despite the fact that I believe everyone here with the exception of 2 or 3 posters would be accepted I find it a slap in the face to have to apply to such a forum. I'm not going to put up my character nor my principles up for a vote. Sorry. I pass.

Chris
07-17-2015, 08:06 PM
Oh what a tangled web we weave...

Mostly webs of our own making.

del
07-17-2015, 08:07 PM
Mostly webs of our own making.

yeah, that's why it says *we*

brilliant

Chris
07-17-2015, 08:09 PM
yeah, that's why it says *we*

brilliant


Oh, boy, the gadfly strikes again!!

http://i.snag.gy/9mddS.jpg

del
07-17-2015, 08:10 PM
Oh, boy, the gadfly strikes again!!

http://i.snag.gy/9mddS.jpg

it's not my fault you're stupid, chris

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 08:11 PM
Mostly webs of our own making.

Hence the "we".

Chris
07-17-2015, 08:14 PM
it's not my fault you're stupid, chris

And he strikes again. I'm devastated, wounded, lol.

Chris
07-17-2015, 08:16 PM
Hence the "we".

We each or we all together? Gets into the morality question again, is it individual or is it social? Despite the gadfly's buzzing.

Chris
07-17-2015, 08:18 PM
or you could grow a pair and stop acting like a whiny three year old.

maybe spend some quality time on your phone


here's $10

spend an hour fucking yourself

see, you got a raise already


i think heraclitus put it best when he said, "who gives a fuck?"


has your chlamydia cleared up?



Here are some typical gadfly bites, in this thread alone.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 08:21 PM
We each or we all together? Gets into the morality question again, is it individual or is it social? Despite the gadfly's buzzing.

Well in this case it was the individual's opinion that was shared with a few others who control the forum. To make it fair they tried to create a forum that was free of trolls but also had to be applied for...

No one received a clean slate. No one is being judged fairly. Their actions from the onset of the forum have not been taken into account. Maybe some of our resident trolls, who are actually smart and well informed posters like our gadfly or Cigar, would be good in that forum but are denied access.

My recommendation still stands. Allow everyone in at first. If someone breaks the rules of that forum then a vote should be held to kick them. In my opinion this approach follows the Democratic Process and allows for the "innocent until proven guilty" principle I hold so dearly.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 08:22 PM
Here are some typical gadfly bites, in this thread alone.

Well if he does it in that forum then a vote can be held to kick him. And by the way 75% is ridiculous. 51% works.

Chris
07-17-2015, 08:24 PM
Well in this case it was the individual's opinion that was shared with a few others who control the forum. To make it fair they tried to create a forum that was free of trolls but also had to be applied for...

No one received a clean slate. No one is being judged fairly. Their actions from the onset of the forum have not been taken into account. Maybe some of our resident trolls, who are actually smart and well informed posters like our gadfly or Cigar, would be good in that forum but are denied access.

My recommendation still stands. Allow everyone in at first. If someone breaks the rules of that forum then a vote should be held to kick them. In my opinion this approach follows the Democratic Process and allows for the "innocent until proven guilty" principle I hold so dearly.


I'll present the idea to the VIPs, it's up to them, not me. I will, when I do, add one rule, any who want to can opt out.

Dr. Who
07-17-2015, 08:24 PM
Obviously Chris is annoyed people are voicing their opinions about his Private Elite Forum creation, I guess he expected only praise from the Forums Elite Posters and not any disagreement from anyone else. Its a real cruel world out here chris.
This forum is not Chris's creation. We had a number of requests to create a place where members could discuss topics seriously without some trying to make it partisan or others offering peanut gallery remarks. It's really no big deal, it's just a forum where everyone agrees to participate with respect. The current rules may change, since it's the membership of that forum who set them. If the members want to drop the threshold for the vote to 51%, that is down to them. It is the members' forum to decide the rules. There is a voting forum and the members can put any issue up to a vote. If they decide that they want to let everyone join, it's up to them. They can vote on it. If they want to invite other forum members to join they are free to do so. It's their forum. Just because we started it one way, doesn't mean that it's inflexible. The initial votes were made by an extremely limited number of members - not even the entirety of the VIP participated. The fact of the matter is that someone had to start this forum and we chose the VIPs to start it. Where it goes after that is not the decision of the VIPs but all of the membership. It now has twice as many members as it first had. That is twice as many opinions. To the comments that it is elitist, there are no elite members of the forum. The VIPs are comprised of members that contribute to the forum in debates and try to conform to the forum rules. That is only elite if you consider people who obey traffic laws and don't engage in road rage as the elite of society. There are members trashing this forum as being exclusive. Well perhaps it is exclusive of bad behavior and overt partisanship, but nothing more. There really would be no point in creating a forum where people self-moderate if that option was available elsewhere. People don't all join forums for the same reasons. Some people enjoy trading barbs, others enjoy debate. The rest of the forum is all inclusive, but this area is for people who don't want to trade barbs, but respond to argument.

Peter1469
07-17-2015, 08:26 PM
All in the Discussion Forum with zero tolerance and fast TB?

Will the people upset agree that this is fair?

Chris
07-17-2015, 08:26 PM
Well if he does it in that forum then a vote can be held to kick him. And by the way 75% is ridiculous. 51% works.

I don't make the rules. Anyone can request in, say so, and I'll put your name in.

The discussion group is now looking at such things as percentage of votes, duration of voting. They will decide.

Chris
07-17-2015, 08:27 PM
All in the Discussion Forum with zero tolerance and fast TB?

Will the people upset agree that this is fair?


Let's take Pickle's ideas to the VIPs. Won't hurt.

GrassrootsConservative
07-17-2015, 08:30 PM
All in the Discussion Forum with zero tolerance and fast TB?

Will the people upset agree that this is fair?

Yes.

I would also like to add I think the best way to do it would be a certain number of valid reports gets you booted. Maybe 2 or 3 posts reported and reviewed and decided to not be up-to-par for the serious discussion section and you're out.

Dr. Who
07-17-2015, 08:31 PM
Yeah. I know. Personally I think it's insulting that I have to apply to a "cool only" club. Despite the fact that I believe everyone here with the exception of 2 or 3 posters would be accepted I find it a slap in the face to have to apply to such a forum. I'm not going to put up my character nor my principles up for a vote. Sorry. I pass.
See my post about the Discussion forum - it may well change. We don't set the rules, the membership does.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 08:33 PM
I'll present the idea to the VIPs, it's up to them, not me. I will, when I do, add one rule, any who want to can opt out.

Fair enough.

Chris
07-17-2015, 08:34 PM
Fair enough.


I posted your thoughts with a link to your post. we'll see what happens. I'll admit you are at least constructive in your criticism.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 08:34 PM
I don't make the rules. Anyone can request in, say so, and I'll put your name in.

The discussion group is now looking at such things as percentage of votes, duration of voting. They will decide.

I DO NOT want my name "put in" for review. I simply won't allow myself to be judged by people on the internet. I find it insulting and divisive.

I am not whining here. I've given constructive criticism and suggestions. If those suggestions are not undertaken it is fine with me. I'm ignoring the forum anyway.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 08:36 PM
See my post about the Discussion forum - it may well change. We don't set the rules, the membership does.

Actually that's only true for this one discussion forum and not entirely true because you had to have chosen the first member. You may have taken the easy way out by giving access to all the VIPs but that is hardly a representation of this forum.

GrassrootsConservative
07-17-2015, 08:38 PM
I posted your thoughts with a link to your post. we'll see what happens. I'll admit you are at least constructive in your criticism.

That's unfair to myself and everybody else that has tried to be constructive.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 08:38 PM
I posted your thoughts with a link to your post. we'll see what happens. I'll admit you are at least constructive in your criticism.

I always try to be and I always try to be civil. Sure I've fallen into plenty of shit with posters and mods but I truly believe that to be a product of internet forums. I've left this forum only to come back because I believe it to be a great forum and nothing else that I've experienced compares.

With that being said, I'm truly sad for this forum, taking such a large step away from its principles is disconcerting.

Private Pickle
07-17-2015, 08:39 PM
That's unfair to myself and everybody else that has tried to be constructive.

Fuck you bitch! You know I'm WAY more constructive than youz!

Chris
07-17-2015, 08:41 PM
That's unfair to myself and everybody else that has tried to be constructive.

If I'm wrong I apologize but my impression is you want to take apart and change the current experiment. Pickle's idea is to create another experiment. Politically, it's good federalist principles.