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View Full Version : Republicans Think Roads And Railways Are Too Safe, Pledge To Fix That Problem



Cigar
07-17-2015, 11:36 AM
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/imgs/2015/150717-republicans-pledge-to-fix-safety-problem.jpg
Repugs working on bill to roll back auto and rail safety regulationsWASHINGTON (AP) — At a time of record auto recalls and high-profile train wrecks, Republicans are working on legislation to roll back safety regulation of the auto and railroad industries.

A bill approved this week on a party-line vote by a Senate committee brims with industry-sought provisions that would block, delay or roll back safety rules. The measure is to be part of a must-pass transportation bill that GOP leaders hope to put to a vote in the Senate as early as next week.

They are under pressure to act quickly because authority for transportation programs expires on July 31. Without a cash infusion, the government will have to delay highway and transit aid to states.

One provision would block a new Department of Transportation rule requiring that trains hauling crude oil are equipped with electronically controlled brakes that affect cars all at the same time, rather than sequentially. The bill calls for a study of the technology and puts off any regulatory mandate, which could delay implementation for years. ..................(more)

http://www.masstransitmag.com/news/14040012/gop-bill-would-undermine-auto-and-rail-safety-regulations

OGIS
07-17-2015, 11:40 AM
One again, crony capitalists hiding behind the rhetoric of the Free Market. We have arrived at Ayn Rand's "Aristocracy of Pull."

The Sage of Main Street
07-17-2015, 01:05 PM
One again, crony capitalists hiding behind the rhetoric of the Free Market. We have arrived at Ayn Rand's "Aristocracy of Pull." It figures that Aynal Rand would have things assbackwards. Even her hero from mythology was a bad choice. Atlas was a mindless hulk who held on his shoulders a world that was a chaotic jungle where man would have soon gone extinct. Pre-sapiens King Ape reality was as unworkable as her fantasy that her utopian free market was anything other than uninhibited domination by the rich.

decedent
07-17-2015, 01:10 PM
Stupid libs and their selfish agenda of public safety. Every damned day I have to put on my commie Ralph Nader seat belt because the fascists are trying to prevent my decapitation. This is America and I have a right to be decapitated if I want.

texan
07-17-2015, 01:46 PM
How could they do that with the over abundance of train wrecks we have regularly. Here is another dunce post, he goes to a left wing hack site and starts the cut & pasting.......................Do you ever think for yourself or are you content with people telling you how to think?

Bo-4
07-17-2015, 01:54 PM
How could they do that with the over abundance of train wrecks we have regularly. Here is another dunce post, he goes to a left wing hack site and starts the cut & pasting.......................Do you ever think for yourself or are you content with people telling you how to think?

Lefty hack site? It's a site devoted to mass transit simply reporting a story.

If your clowns get their way they'll defund DoT, the FDA, FAA and every other agency that looks after public safety.

Crashing trains, airplanes falling out of the sky, crumbling bridges and tainted meat.

YaY!

hanger4
07-17-2015, 07:26 PM
Lefty hack site? It's a site devoted to mass transit simply reporting a story.

If your clowns get their way they'll defund DoT, the FDA, FAA and every other agency that looks after public safety.

Crashing trains, airplanes falling out of the sky, crumbling bridges and tainted meat.

YaY!

You forgot hyperbole.

zelmo1234
07-17-2015, 09:03 PM
Why do I have to fund trains and train tracks being improved.

I know that Buffet owns a bunch of those companies? Why can't he dig into his fortune, after all Obama has prevented the pipeline for nearly 8 years.

If you want the tracks improved? raise the price of freight and passenger tickets. That will cover it. I don't ask you to put gas in my car for me.

Crepitus
07-17-2015, 09:12 PM
Stupid libs and their selfish agenda of public safety. Every damned day I have to put on my commie Ralph Nader seat belt because the fascists are trying to prevent my decapitation. This is America and I have a right to be decapitated if I want.
Amen Brother!

Crepitus
07-17-2015, 09:14 PM
Why do I have to fund trains and train tracks being improved.

I know that Buffet owns a bunch of those companies? Why can't he dig into his fortune, after all Obama has prevented the pipeline for nearly 8 years.

If you want the tracks improved? raise the price of freight and passenger tickets. That will cover it. I don't ask you to put gas in my car for me.
You drive on a road my friend?

zelmo1234
07-17-2015, 09:23 PM
You drive on a road my friend?

So do they? but I don't take trains, And because the lions share of the taxes used on roads come from the sale of Gasoline? the drivers are paying for it. If it makes you feel better the increase in ticket prices can be a tax.

And if I had my way only the surface streets would be owned by the people, The highway system would be for profit toll roads.

gamewell45
07-17-2015, 11:59 PM
So do they? but I don't take trains, And because the lions share of the taxes used on roads come from the sale of Gasoline? the drivers are paying for it. If it makes you feel better the increase in ticket prices can be a tax.

And if I had my way only the surface streets would be owned by the people, The highway system would be for profit toll roads.

I don't use the fire department or sanitation; why should I have to pay taxes to support them?? I don't use the public school system, why should I have to pay school taxes??? Why don't we just make people who use the services pay??? You agree with that don't you zel???

OGIS
07-18-2015, 01:01 AM
It figures that Aynal Rand would have things assbackwards. Even her hero from mythology was a bad choice. Atlas was a mindless hulk who held on his shoulders a world that was a chaotic jungle where man would have soon gone extinct. Pre-sapiens King Ape reality was as unworkable as her fantasy that her utopian free market was anything other than uninhibited domination by the rich.


Know how I know that you don't really understand anything about what she wrote or believed?

"Aynal Rand"

Oh, and you've just painted yourself in schoolyard sandbox cat poop. Aynal? Really? Are you five? LOL!

OGIS
07-18-2015, 01:07 AM
I don't ask you to put gas in my car for me.

Do you ask our young people to die in oil wars so that your price for gas remains cheap?

zelmo1234
07-18-2015, 03:58 AM
I don't use the fire department or sanitation; why should I have to pay taxes to support them?? I don't use the public school system, why should I have to pay school taxes??? Why don't we just make people who use the services pay??? You agree with that don't you zel???

Actually the police and fire, you do use you have not just yet. But I would support a system to paying for them if you want to, as long as they don't have to respond if you don't pay.

So I am assuming that you went to private school, I am totally pro voucher so anyone that is educated, not matter the form of education would be able to use those taxes.

The Titians of the railroad industry built the lines they needed, It was not until the government wanted the coasts connected and there was not a market for it, that the government was forced to give land to them to pay for the tracks

zelmo1234
07-18-2015, 04:03 AM
Do you ask our young people to die in oil wars so that your price for gas remains cheap?

Where the hell is my cheap oil. I fucking want it!!! it was not until, the American oil industry, in spite of the wishes of Obama, who supported a policy that in his words would cause the cost of energy to necessarily skyrocket

They tell us that Iraq was for oil, well give me my cheap oil.

And here is a hint,, If Bush and Chaney would have promised cheap oil to people for going to war and went back on their word???

Well those are not the people that you do that sort of thing too.

And of course, even if that was the case, it is better than the Democrats, who ask them to die on the streets of the USA because Our President will not confront Islamic Terrorism.

zelmo1234
07-18-2015, 04:08 AM
I think that it is interesting that the Left Screams that we have to stop the subsidies to Big oil, which of course is just an advance in depreciation.

But the industry that the 2nd richest man in the world Warren Buffet is heavily invested in? Oh we need to use money for that, because he is a Democrat.

I say we end them both.

OGIS
07-18-2015, 08:44 AM
You forgot hyperbole.

I am as Free Market as the wildest wild-eyed Rothbardian. But please explain, if you can, how the Captains of Industry in the meat business somehow forgot their Randian ethics, as described by Lewis in The Jungle.

Never mind, I'll tell you: The owner(s) of a business may be sociopaths, or may have the highest ethical standards possible; but the high-level management employees are a different story. Businesses, like all other organizations, are hierarchical. And hierarchies (in and out of government) breed yes-men, petty empire-builders, and passive-aggressive monkey-wrenchers. Internal corruption and incompetence in management levels, and production line (and management) don't-give-a-shitters, are the source of many, if not all, product quality issues.

And THIS is the reason that regulations are needed.

OGIS
07-18-2015, 08:46 AM
Where the hell is my cheap oil. I $#@!ing want it!!! it was not until, the American oil industry, in spite of the wishes of Obama, who supported a policy that in his words would cause the cost of energy to necessarily skyrocket

They tell us that Iraq was for oil, well give me my cheap oil.

And here is a hint,, If Bush and Chaney would have promised cheap oil to people for going to war and went back on their word???

Well those are not the people that you do that sort of thing too.

And of course, even if that was the case, it is better than the Democrats, who ask them to die on the streets of the USA because Our President will not confront Islamic Terrorism.

Sorry, first thing in the morning before my mandatory 4 cups of coffee is not the best time for me to be debating someone who apparently thinks in sound bites.

Mac-7
07-18-2015, 09:50 AM
Do you ask our young people to die in oil wars so that your price for gas remains cheap?

We ask them to fight and dies to keep the supply of oil access able to the world economy.

Thats in our national interests.

The Sage of Main Street
07-18-2015, 11:05 AM
If your clowns get their way they'll defund DoT, the FDA, FAA and every other agency that looks after public safety.

Crashing trains, airplanes falling out of the sky, crumbling bridges and tainted meat.

YaY! Again, that's exactly what upside-down Aynal Rand predicted would happen if the Rethuglicans ​were forced to care about anybody but their own anointed economic clique.

OGIS
07-18-2015, 11:05 AM
We ask them to fight and dies to keep the supply of oil access able to the world economy.

Thats in our national interests.


"National interest" is an interesting generalization that people use to hide THEIR interests.

OGIS
07-18-2015, 11:07 AM
...Aynal Rand...

Again, are you five?

The Sage of Main Street
07-18-2015, 11:11 AM
Oh, and you've just painted yourself in schoolyard sandbox cat poop. Aynal? Really? Are you five? You mean like when you were five and came on to a pedophile because he would buy you toys your Daddy couldn't afford to buy you?


This is just way over the top in bad faith, insulting posting.

The Sage of Main Street
07-18-2015, 11:16 AM
Do you ask our young people to die in oil wars so that your price for gas remains cheap? Another assbackwards Right Wing comment. Saddam was overproducing on his quotas and driving down the price of oil. This upset our petrocracy, so they ordered his removal.

Tricia
07-18-2015, 11:20 AM
You mean like when you were five and came on to a pedophile because he would buy you toys your Daddy couldn't afford to buy you?
Wow.

Chris
07-18-2015, 11:34 AM
One again, crony capitalists hiding behind the rhetoric of the Free Market. We have arrived at Ayn Rand's "Aristocracy of Pull."

Obviously crony capitalism and free markets are opposites. And you know Rand wrote against the Aristocracy of Pull as, well, cronyism. From Atlas Shrugged:


“We are at the dawn of a new age,” said James Taggart, from above the rim of his champagne glass. “We are breaking up the vicious tyranny of economic power. We will set men free of the rule of the dollar. We will release our spiritual aims from dependence on the owners of material means. We will liberate our culture from the stranglehold of the profit-chasers. We will build a society dedicated to higher ideals, and we will replace the aristocracy of money by—”

“—the aristocracy of pull,” said a voice beyond the group.

They whirled around. The man who stood facing them was Francisco d’Anconia.

…”What’s the matter?” he asked in the midst of their silence. “Did I say something that somebody here didn’t know?”

Chris
07-18-2015, 11:38 AM
It figures that Aynal Rand would have things assbackwards. Even her hero from mythology was a bad choice. Atlas was a mindless hulk who held on his shoulders a world that was a chaotic jungle where man would have soon gone extinct. Pre-sapiens King Ape reality was as unworkable as her fantasy that her utopian free market was anything other than uninhibited domination by the rich.


Right, instead we have the aristocracy of pull, cronyism, that produces and protects the rich, is after all so much better than the free market where the rich would have to compete.

The Sage of Main Street
07-18-2015, 11:50 AM
I am the wildest wild-eyed Rothbardian. But please explain, if you can, how the Captains of Industry in the meat business somehow forgot their Randian ethics, as described by Lewis in The Jungle.

The Jungle was written by Upton Sinclair, not Sinclair Lewis. Your lazy carelessness about fact-checking is typical of Libretardians. You think just having the right selfish egomaniacal attitude is sufficient; you don't have to do anything to prove your competence to others, who, in your mindset, don't really exist. Someone in your self-satisfying delusion only needs shortcuts and simple-minded game plans because you think your overwhelming superiority will not be obstructed by petty details.

I first noticed this character flaw in a devout biography of Ron Paul, Sen.Randsom's Daddy. This Pauline cultist was too lazy to find out who had been Gerald Ford's running mate in 1976 against Carter and Mondale. He assumed it was the sitting VP, Nelson Rockefeller, but Rocky had been dumped for Bob Dole. The slurping Paulista further embarrassed himself by saying that his Aynal Atlas refused to endorse President Ford because Ford's imaginary running mate Rockefeller was too Liberal!

Tahuyaman
07-18-2015, 12:03 PM
Liberals always think regulations piled on top of more regulations is always the answer.

Ravens Fan
07-18-2015, 12:07 PM
I don't use the fire department or sanitation; why should I have to pay taxes to support them??
Based on your posts and your avatar, I am going to assume that you are a retired career Firefighter. I think we can agree that the majority of people do not mind paying taxes for fire or police services. You may not need it now, but it is nice to know that like an insurance policy, they are there just incase.

As far as sanitation, maybe it is different in upstate NY, but around here there is no way around using it in some way. I have a well and a septic tank, but the county still comes and collects my trash and recycling. I would rather not have those things building up in my backyard.


I don't use the public school system, why should I have to pay school taxes???


This one I can agree with. I have no kids, and yet I have to pay for other people's kids. I understand the argument that the education of today's children benefit us all, but it doesn't put a dime in my pocket. It is not a big issue to me, but that is my stance on it.


Why don't we just make people who use the services pay??? You agree with that don't you zel???

In some circumstances, I feel that is possible. Police, Fire and public works, not so much.

Interesting thing in Maryland, and I am not sure if it happens elsewhere. When you call an ambulance, the county sends a bill to you or your insurance company for $500. This fee is not strictly enforced to the individual, only the insurance companies. I think that is wrong, because of the fact that the ambulance ride is already paid for with tax dollars.

Bob
07-18-2015, 12:18 PM
Stupid libs and their selfish agenda of public safety. Every damned day I have to put on my commie Ralph Nader seat belt because the fascists are trying to prevent my decapitation. This is America and I have a right to be decapitated if I want.

If your head was above your shoulders, the seat belt would not be needed to save you from decapitation.

Where is your helmet as you drive since you want to save your head?

Bob
07-18-2015, 12:28 PM
Lefty hack site? It's a site devoted to mass transit simply reporting a story.

If your clowns get their way they'll defund DoT, the FDA, FAA and every other agency that looks after public safety.

Crashing trains, airplanes falling out of the sky, crumbling bridges and tainted meat.

YaY!

We have one of those government built bridges spanning the SF Bay.

The damned thing catches on fire. Traffic scatters to evade the fires.

It is over priced. It was sold as a much cheaper bridge. Naturally when Government pays, costs go sky high.

Bridges are held together in part by enormous bolts. Who would think huge bolts could break? One might. But a lot of them? Government purchased the bolts it designed.

Were this a railroad track, it would fall apart.
http://www.kcra.com/news/rubber-expansion-joint-catches-fire-on-sf-bay-bridge/34187860

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/tag/bay-bridge-bolts/

And the Democrats built that bridge

Funny they care so much about tankers on railroads given they hate pipelines that don't move, don't get into wrecks and have a long safe service record all over this country.

hanger4
07-18-2015, 12:30 PM
I am as Free Market as the wildest wild-eyed Rothbardian. But please explain, if you can, how the Captains of Industry in the meat business somehow forgot their Randian ethics, as described by Lewis in The Jungle.

Never mind, I'll tell you: The owner(s) of a business may be sociopaths, or may have the highest ethical standards possible; but the high-level management employees are a different story. Businesses, like all other organizations, are hierarchical. And hierarchies (in and out of government) breed yes-men, petty empire-builders, and passive-aggressive monkey-wrenchers. Internal corruption and incompetence in management levels, and production line (and management) don't-give-a-shitters, are the source of many, if not all, product quality issues.

And THIS is the reason that regulations are needed.

I never said regs weren't needed. Putting words in posters mouths is always a bad idea and never works out in the *putters* favor. Just sayin.

OGIS
07-18-2015, 08:55 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by OGIS http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=1182092#post1182092)
One again, crony capitalists hiding behind the rhetoric of the Free Market. We have arrived at Ayn Rand's "Aristocracy of Pull."


Obviously crony capitalism and free markets are opposites. And you know Rand wrote against the Aristocracy of Pull as, well, cronyism. From Atlas Shrugged:

I think I probably didn't make myself clear. What I meant is that the crony capitalists (that Aristocracy of Pull that Rand railed against) hate, fear and trash Free Market concepts... yet they hide behind spouting them to the general public (which is essentially Free Market oriented in their day to day lives even if they don't know it).

What they do is rather like Pedophile Josh Duggar hiding behind over-the-top rhetoric against transgenders. Or Larry Craig authoring anti-gay legislation.

I suspect that the Koch Brothers are about as libertarian-oriented as Attila the Hun, but they think it amusing to support assorted libertarian causes that have been suborned to eventually give them more money and therefore power.

OGIS
07-18-2015, 09:03 PM
And the Democrats built that bridge

No argument from me, Bob. Totally agree. However, look up some of the crap that Republican administrations at whatever level have historically gotten away with. As far as corruption and machines, there is very little difference. The Republicans might be a bit more efficient.

OGIS
07-18-2015, 09:16 PM
The Jungle was written by Upton Sinclair, not Sinclair Lewis.

Your right. I'm 65 and high, and it's been 45 years since I read anything by either of the gents. Deal with it, son.


Your lazy carelessness about fact-checking is typical of Libretardians. You think just having the right selfish egomaniacal attitude is sufficient; you don't have to do anything to prove your competence to others, who, in your mindset, don't really exist. Someone in your self-satisfying delusion only needs shortcuts and simple-minded game plans because you think your overwhelming superiority will not be obstructed by petty details.

Oooohhhhhh. Can you show us on this anatomically correct doll where the Bad Libertarian touched you?


I first noticed this character flaw in a devout biography of Ron Paul, Sen.Randsom's Daddy. This Pauline cultist was too lazy to find out who had been Gerald Ford's running mate in 1976 against Carter and Mondale. He assumed it was the sitting VP, Nelson Rockefeller, but Rocky had been dumped for Bob Dole. The slurping Paulista further embarrassed himself by saying that his Aynal Atlas refused to endorse President Ford because Ford's imaginary running mate Rockefeller was too Liberal!

Uhh.... so? Ron Paul is senile and his kid is a sociopath. Why should I care?

Seriously, Sagey, you sound just about like a precocious twelve to fourteen year old, white, frustrated virgin boy who has just discovered DailyKOS on Mom's computer, and "Herbert Marcuse for Teens" in the local library stacks where you go to beat off to Cosmo and the Black Girls in the old JC Penny Catalog.

If you are not in the above demographic, I'm sorry to say that there may not be a lot of help for you. You might like to try some weed, it might help.

OGIS
07-18-2015, 09:24 PM
I never said regs weren't needed. Putting words in posters mouths is always a bad idea and never works out in the *putters* favor. Just sayin.

Sorry, my comment was meant to respond to bo-4, the same person you responded to (his reference about total dereg).

gamewell45
07-18-2015, 10:18 PM
We ask them to fight and dies to keep the supply of oil access able to the world economy.

Thats in our national interests.

Would you willingly send your son or daughter overseas to die over a barrel of oil??

Vilifier of Zombies
07-18-2015, 10:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5YWTFW5WMw

OGIS
07-18-2015, 11:00 PM
whatever

LOL, it's a step up from College Humor, so you've got that going for you. Cracked? Really? Seriously?

12060

Vilifier of Zombies
07-18-2015, 11:07 PM
LOL, it's a step up from College Humor, so you've got that going for you. Cracked? Really? Seriously?



I'm not going to knock College Humor. I still laugh at Basic Bitches.

zelmo1234
07-19-2015, 02:47 AM
Would you willingly send your son or daughter overseas to die over a barrel of oil??

No but I would send them to protect people from the slaughter that comes from terrorist attacks inspired by the monsters in the middle east.

And where the Fuck is my cheap oil from Iraq?

Peter1469
07-19-2015, 04:05 AM
I'm not going to knock College Humor. I still laugh at Basic Bitches.

http://blog.collegehumor.com/post/80816274024/how-to-tell-if-youre-a-basic-bitch-shes-lucky

GrassrootsConservative
07-19-2015, 04:47 AM
Good for them for being Conservative for once and cutting that fat. It's clear that with the high number of recent train derailments that the regulations are not working. What do we do with things that don't work? We fix them. Cigar and other leftists want to continue with the same old tomfoolery that doesn't work. They try it every time. It's time to restore America and trim that fat.

Vilifier of Zombies
07-19-2015, 06:06 AM
http://blog.collegehumor.com/post/80816274024/how-to-tell-if-youre-a-basic-bitch-shes-lucky

Its still funny. There's a Basic Bro YouTube that's also funny. "Doctor, that's impossible -only Bitches can be basic!"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7nQrtMQEw

Ransom
07-19-2015, 06:51 AM
Kids these days.

OGIS
07-19-2015, 09:00 AM
No but I would send them to protect people from the slaughter that comes from terrorist attacks inspired by the monsters in the middle east.

You're true commitment to concepts of individual liberty are noted. [/sarcasm]

gamewell45
07-19-2015, 02:40 PM
Good for them for being Conservative for once and cutting that fat. It's clear that with the high number of recent train derailments that the regulations are not working. What do we do with things that don't work? We fix them. Cigar and other leftists want to continue with the same old tomfoolery that doesn't work. They try it every time. It's time to restore America and trim that fat.

So the fix to the regulations is to cut?? That makes absolutely no sense. How about following the recommendations of the Railroad Administration and other regulatory bodies who know the business better then you and I??

OGIS
07-19-2015, 02:50 PM
So the fix to the regulations is to cut?? That makes absolutely no sense. How about following the recommendations of the Railroad Administration and other regulatory bodies who know the business better then you and I??

While recognizing that the Railroad Administration has their own set of irons in the fire. One of the first thing you learn in Political Science is that the "The Regulated" soon end up running "The Regulators," or at least have significant input into the process. Other than the Nazi Death Camps other such ideological/pathological excesses, I cannot think of a single exception to that rule. Even the Gulags in the bad old Soviet Union eventually had prisoner input on the construction jobs.

Bob
07-19-2015, 04:23 PM
No argument from me, Bob. Totally agree. However, look up some of the crap that Republican administrations at whatever level have historically gotten away with. As far as corruption and machines, there is very little difference. The Republicans might be a bit more efficient.

We could examine this city by city, county by county, state by state, but starting with the Feds,

Republicans had all of the government to run as they chose, zero times in the past 100 years.

Democrats ran the entire show in the past 100 years three times. And not three years, but three times.

And since Republicans have yet to run federal government in the way I am talking of, I can't see that they corrupted.

We had a far better California though when republicans ran the state.

I am not totally anti Gerry Brown. The man though has next to no republicans in our government. He does as he wishes. But the man is nuts. Why the hell would we want a train system given our major need is water supplies?

Water suppliers told all of us to save. So we saved. Now they want to punish us in higher prices for .... saving.

That is the Democrat way of thinking.

Democrats offend me talking of global warming/climate.

Why is that? They have bragged they warned us all.

Well, they ran the show in CA. All they had to do about climate 15 years ago was to busy themselves constructing fine places to store water.

They could have serious desalination plants going by now. But they sat on their asses warning us.

Stop the train. Construct things to produce needed water supply. Brown, get off your ass.

OGIS
07-19-2015, 06:03 PM
We could examine this city by city, county by county, state by state, but starting with the Feds,

Republicans had all of the government to run as they chose, zero times in the past 100 years.

Democrats ran the entire show in the past 100 years three times. And not three years, but three times.

And since Republicans have yet to run federal government in the way I am talking of, I can't see that they corrupted.

We had a far better California though when republicans ran the state.

I am not totally anti Gerry Brown. The man though has next to no republicans in our government. He does as he wishes. But the man is nuts. Why the hell would we want a train system given our major need is water supplies?

Water suppliers told all of us to save. So we saved. Now they want to punish us in higher prices for .... saving.

That is the Democrat way of thinking.

Democrats offend me talking of global warming/climate.

Why is that? They have bragged they warned us all.

Well, they ran the show in CA. All they had to do about climate 15 years ago was to busy themselves constructing fine places to store water.

They could have serious desalination plants going by now. But they sat on their asses warning us.

Stop the train. Construct things to produce needed water supply. Brown, get off your ass.

Bob, IMHO, this is a seriously naive and simplistic view of how politics - especially California politics - works.

It's been decades, but AIR there is a very famous study in the PoliSci discipline about how political power actually works. IIRC some guy named Laswell studied the hell out of a bunch of small towns and counties. He discovered that the real political power in a system can come in surprising packages. And the reasons are tremendously varied.

zelmo1234
07-19-2015, 06:14 PM
You're true commitment to concepts of individual liberty are noted. [/sarcasm]

And here is a hint, I would not ask them to go where I have not been?

OGIS
07-19-2015, 06:18 PM
And here is a hint, I would not ask them to go where I have not been?

Where you have been, or done, is irrelevant. It realistically has, and should have, zero bearing on the lives of anyone else.

Bob
07-19-2015, 09:09 PM
Bob, IMHO, this is a seriously naive and simplistic view of how politics - especially California politics - works.

It's been decades, but AIR there is a very famous study in the PoliSci discipline about how political power actually works. IIRC some guy named Laswell studied the hell out of a bunch of small towns and counties. He discovered that the real political power in a system can come in surprising packages. And the reasons are tremendously varied.

It is supposed to be simplistic to show how it works. Authors write very long books to explain things. I once would, taking links and lots of material post same to prove a point. Learned readers think in about one sentence.

I do my best to accommodate those types.

Vilifier of Zombies
07-19-2015, 10:23 PM
It is supposed to be simplistic to show how it works. Authors write very long books to explain things. I once would, taking links and lots of material post same to prove a point. Learned readers think in about one sentence.

I do my best to accommodate those types.

What the fuck does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

That poster, simply put -is discussing the ebb and flow of political power and how it waxes and wanes under the thumb of influencers in the face of structural realism's 'acts in one's own self-interest.'

You've all but downplayed and whitewashed what's an otherwise decent discussion topic.

zelmo1234
07-19-2015, 10:35 PM
Where you have been, or done, is irrelevant. It realistically has, and should have, zero bearing on the lives of anyone else.

Tell the families of the 5 military personnel that it does not have an effect on others. How about the nearly 3000 people that died on 9/11

Evil exists and you have to confront it, these lunatics are not going to start liking the USA just because a bunch of people think we need to try and appease them.

However they do understand power very well!

Vilifier of Zombies
07-19-2015, 10:54 PM
Tell the families of the 5 military personnel that it does not have an effect on others. How about the nearly 3000 people that died on 9/11

Evil exists and you have to confront it, these lunatics are not going to start liking the USA just because a bunch of people think we need to try and appease them.

However they do understand power very well!

Nice. Okay -going with this train (no pun intended) of thought -since you mentioned 911.

On the global stage -Abdul Kabir -one of the most powerful Taliban figures at the time -offered to hand over Bin Laden to another country -a third party.

From this point on ↑ -discuss political power structures on the global stage, keeping in mind the global stage is representative of anarchy -and all country's act in their self-interest first -and the outcomes wrought from individual influences versus political power structures.

Some key discussion points -how much weight, if any, did either the U.S's or the Taliban's historical narrative carry -and what drives how decisions are made on the global stage.