The rise of conceal carry

[Peter1469]

The rise of conceal carry (http://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2015/07/17/the_rise_of_concealed_carry_1369.html)

Real Clear Policy brings us this study about the rise of conceal carry in the US. The hard left hates guns yet has no political power to ban them or even add more laws. Impotent would be the word that comes to mind.

Meanwhile, Americans are getting carry conceal permits.


How many people are licensed to carry concealed guns in your state? The Crime Prevention Research Center (http://crimeresearch.org) has released a paper (http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/2015-Report-from-the-Crime-Prevention-Research-Center-Final.pdf) with the numbers, finding that the number of permit holders has risen 15.4 percent in the last year alone.


We sat down with the organization's president, More Guns, Less Crime author John Lott, to discuss the findings. The interview has been edited for length and clarity.



Read more at the link.

[zelmo1234]

The people of the USA are starting to figure it out.

[Adelaide]

I dislike the idea of concealed carry, although I generally hold an ambivalent view of actual firearms legislation in the US (I don't advocate guns are the problem). I'd rather people be openly carrying a weapon so I can identify them rather than have no idea who is holding what. That seems slightly scary to me.

[Common]

The murder rate is up in fla along with the concealed carry permits. Is it related ? I dont know but something has driven the murder rate through the roof

[PolWatch]

In spite of those who believe that more guns makes everyone safer, we seem to be having more gun violence. Its now easier for more people to have more powerful guns with fewer restrictions. Should every child be issued a gun at birth? Required for entry to kindergarten? What's the problem?

[Mister D]

In spite of those who believe that more guns makes everyone safer, we seem to be having more gun violence. Its now easier for more people to have more powerful guns with fewer restrictions. Should every child be issued a gun at birth? Required for entry to kindergarten? What's the problem?

The vast majority of gun violence occurs in communities of color. Once that fact is accounted for, the rate of gun violence in the US is remarkably low considering the sheer number of firearms available.

[Bo-4]

The vast majority of gun violence occurs in communities of color. Once that fact is accounted for, the rate of gun violence in the US is remarkably low considering the sheer number of firearms available.

VAST majority?

:rofl:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded/expanded-homicide-data



Of the offenders for whom race was known, 52.4 percent were black, 45.2 percent were white, and 2.4 percent were of other races. The race was unknown for 4,077 offenders. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 3 (https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3).)

[birddog]

The murder rate is up in fla along with the concealed carry permits. Is it related ? I dont know but something has driven the murder rate through the roof

If you are correct, it could only be minorities and illegals who are likely unqualified to get one legally.

The murder rate of legal citizens has went down.

[Mister D]

VAST majority?

:rofl:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded/expanded-homicide-data



Of the offenders for whom race was known, 52.4 percent were black, 45.2 percent were white, and 2.4 percent were of other races. The race was unknown for 4,077 offenders. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 3 (https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3).)



pssst...white includes Hispanic. oops. :rofl:

[PolWatch]

Perhaps we should just drop off more guns in all neighborhoods. Even up the chances. More guns make everyone safer.

[Mister D]

Perhaps we should just drop off more guns in all neighborhoods. Even up the chances. More guns make everyone safer.

can't hurt. Obviously, the police aren't making us any safer.

[domer76]

The vast majority of gun violence occurs in communities of color. Once that fact is accounted for, the rate of gun violence in the US is remarkably low considering the sheer number of firearms available.

So, getting rid of people of color solves the problem....

[Bob]

In spite of those who believe that more guns makes everyone safer, we seem to be having more gun violence. Its now easier for more people to have more powerful guns with fewer restrictions. Should every child be issued a gun at birth? Required for entry to kindergarten? What's the problem?

To test the theory guns are bad, disarm all cops. There are far more cops on the streets openly armed than the rest of us. Disarm Cops and watch crime drop. :rollseyes:

[Mister D]

So, getting rid of people of color solves the problem....

Yes, actually. The problem would disappear overnight but no one suggested such a solution.

[PolWatch]

The solution is simple. Gun laws don't work & more guns make everyone safer (according to some) give everyone a gun and lots of bullets. Let the cops concentrate on speed traps in nice neighborhoods. Problem solved.

[Bob]

Perhaps we should just drop off more guns in all neighborhoods. Even up the chances. More guns make everyone safer.

Very few Americans actually want to walk around, as in cowboy movies, with a six gun in a holster.

But the criminals know the cops are too few, too far between and not on time to stop crime. Cops in general though armed to the gills, don't stop crimes.

The killings in TN and in the church prove that. The killings in the school at CT and in AZ at the theater prove cops don't work.

So, since cops don't work to stop crime, get rid of cops. :rollseyes:

This is essentially the same argument those against citizens carrying arms make.

Look at all the anti cop threads posted by Democrats all the time on this very forum.

[Mister D]

The solution is simple. Gun laws don't work & more guns make everyone safer (according to some) give everyone a gun and lots of bullets. Let the cops concentrate on speed traps in nice neighborhoods. Problem solved.

What problem? There is no gun problem per se.

[Bob]

The solution is simple. Gun laws don't work & more guns make everyone safer (according to some) give everyone a gun and lots of bullets. Let the cops concentrate on speed traps in nice neighborhoods. Problem solved.

There are a hell of a lot of anti cop threads being posted. By guess who? Democrats.

[Safety]

VAST majority?

:rofl:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded/expanded-homicide-data



Of the offenders for whom race was known, 52.4 percent were black, 45.2 percent were white, and 2.4 percent were of other races. The race was unknown for 4,077 offenders. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 3 (https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3).)


It's a moot argument until they separate the Hispanic numbers from whites, they are starting to do it in the expanded homicide table. Until then, any number shown is going to be argued because of that fact.

[Bob]

So, getting rid of people of color solves the problem....

I would do it this way. I would send in heavily armed men of color to get rid of the of color bad people. They know who they are.

[PolWatch]

What problem? There is no gun problem per se.

of course not. The only problem is a lack of guns.....which is easily remedied.

[Mister D]

of course not. The only problem is a lack of guns.....which is easily remedied.

Guns aren't a problem so more guns or less guns wouldn't effect any change.

[Mister D]

It's a moot argument until they separate the Hispanic numbers from whites, they are starting to do it in the expanded homicide table. Until then, any number shown is going to be argued because of that fact.

Whites would be shocked by just how little violent crime they are responsible for.

[domer76]

Yes, actually. The problem would disappear overnight but no one suggested such a solution.

Not directly......

[domer76]

What problem? There is no gun problem per se.

Just 30,000 unnecessary deaths a year. No problem at all.

[PolWatch]

Guns aren't a problem so more guns or less guns wouldn't effect any change.

Then why are some so concerned with increasing the number of people carrying guns? Open carry in fast food joints, bars, churches, everywhere seems to be the goal. I thought this was in response to a problem that an increase in guns would solve.

[domer76]

I would do it this way. I would send in heavily armed men of color to get rid of the of color bad people. They know who they are.

Just shoot 'em, huh Bob?

[birddog]

Perhaps we should just drop off more guns in all neighborhoods. Even up the chances. More guns make everyone safer.

More guns in the hands of more law abiding citizens certainly do help!

[Safety]

Whites would be shocked by just how little violent crime they are responsible for.

It's a no brainer, considering the policies and laws that non-whites dealt with.

[Bob]

Just shoot 'em, huh Bob?

Don't you hate the long prison terms?

[Safety]

Yes, actually. The problem would disappear overnight but no one suggested such a solution.

But, that's more because of how society only seems to care when people of color are pointed out. Even the statistics presented in this thread shows a pretty close number set, but yet we hear how "vastly overrepresented" people of color are in the equation.

[Bob]

Then why are some so concerned with increasing the number of people carrying guns? Open carry in fast food joints, bars, churches, everywhere seems to be the goal. I thought this was in response to a problem that an increase in guns would solve.

Cops with guns has not worked.

Guns next to the crime have a far better chance to work than a gun on a cop a mile or more distant.

Criminals are not frightened. Time to scare the crap out of them.

[Bob]

Then why are some so concerned with increasing the number of people carrying guns? Open carry in fast food joints, bars, churches, everywhere seems to be the goal. I thought this was in response to a problem that an increase in guns would solve.

Think of it this way.

Consider the kitchen fire.

Best to wait on the Fire department to get there or best to have a very good fire detection system and quality fire extinguisher in the kitchen?

I keep a top grade fire extinguishher on hand to keep from being forced to evacate to let the fire department show up.

Guns work the same way.

I keep a semi automatic pistol within inches of this computer. I do so due to some crime in this area. I can pull out the gun and prevent crime far faster than can the cops. And this is in left wing CA.

[PolWatch]

Issue enough guns and there will be no need for cops.....great way to save $$$.

[Common]

I have opinons that as usual will make both sides hate on Common.

Im for gun ownership because I know criminals never had a problem getting guns to commit crimes. Every major city always had gun runners and illegal gun rooms where you could buy a bazooka if you had enough cash.

I am not for concealed carry the way its implemented. 96% of applicants for concealed carry in fla are approved, that tells me the system sucks in fla and theres at least 40% who should not be approved that get approved.

Im against concealed carry because the lionshare of those carrying guns are clueless how to use them or to properly handle them because it isnt a requirement to get licensed.

This is a fact that concealed carry proponents are not going to like. Since concealed carry has gotten approved in fla the murder rate has gone up over 15%

To carry a sidearm one must prove they are proficient with that weapon and has had training with it. The permit should also list the weapon to be carried and thats the only weapon that person should be carrying after they have shown to be proficient with it.

[PolWatch]

I have opinons that as usual will make both sides hate on Common.

Im for gun ownership because I know criminals never had a problem getting guns to commit crimes. Every major city always had gun runners and illegal gun rooms where you could buy a bazooka if you had enough cash.

I am not for concealed carry the way its implemented. 96% of applicants for concealed carry in fla are approved, that tells me the system sucks in fla and theres at least 40% who should not be approved that get approved.

Im against concealed carry because the lionshare of those carrying guns are clueless how to use them or to properly handle them because it isnt a requirement to get licensed.

This is a fact that concealed carry proponents are not going to like. Since concealed carry has gotten approved in fla the murder rate has gone up over 15%

To carry a sidearm one must prove they are proficient with that weapon and has had training with it. The permit should also list the weapon to be carried and thats the only weapon that person should be carrying after they have shown to be proficient with it.

my goodness! I guess you believe that people shooting themselves while adjusting their bra or being shot by a 2 year old reaching into a bag is a bad idea? go figure!

<snark off>

[Rebel Son]

Real Clear Policy brings us this study about the rise of conceal carry in the US. The hard left hates guns yet has no political power to ban them or even add more laws. Impotent would be the word that comes to mind.

Meanwhile, Americans are getting carry conceal permits.


Why does one need a conceal permit? Did our ancestors have to have one? The right to protect yourself and your family, along with you're property is your right.
'

[Peter1469]

They require training here in VA, I am not sure of the quality of the class. As military that requirement was waived for me.


I have opinons that as usual will make both sides hate on Common.

Im for gun ownership because I know criminals never had a problem getting guns to commit crimes. Every major city always had gun runners and illegal gun rooms where you could buy a bazooka if you had enough cash.

I am not for concealed carry the way its implemented. 96% of applicants for concealed carry in fla are approved, that tells me the system sucks in fla and theres at least 40% who should not be approved that get approved.

Im against concealed carry because the lionshare of those carrying guns are clueless how to use them or to properly handle them because it isnt a requirement to get licensed.

This is a fact that concealed carry proponents are not going to like. Since concealed carry has gotten approved in fla the murder rate has gone up over 15%

To carry a sidearm one must prove they are proficient with that weapon and has had training with it. The permit should also list the weapon to be carried and thats the only weapon that person should be carrying after they have shown to be proficient with it.

[domer76]

They require training here in VA, I am not sure of the quality of the class. As military that requirement was waived for me.

In Idaho, it's an 8 hour class. BFD.

[Mister D]

But, that's more because of how society only seems to care when people of color are pointed out. Even the statistics presented in this thread shows a pretty close number set, but yet we hear how "vastly overrepresented" people of color are in the equation.

People say that because that's precisely what the data shows.

[Mister D]

In Idaho, it's an 8 hour class. BFD.

Careful out on the mean streets of Boise.

[Mister D]

Then why are some so concerned with increasing the number of people carrying guns? Open carry in fast food joints, bars, churches, everywhere seems to be the goal. I thought this was in response to a problem that an increase in guns would solve.

Don't know. Ask them.

[Bob]

I have opinons that as usual will make both sides hate on Common.

Im for gun ownership because I know criminals never had a problem getting guns to commit crimes. Every major city always had gun runners and illegal gun rooms where you could buy a bazooka if you had enough cash.

I am not for concealed carry the way its implemented. 96% of applicants for concealed carry in fla are approved, that tells me the system sucks in fla and theres at least 40% who should not be approved that get approved.

Im against concealed carry because the lionshare of those carrying guns are clueless how to use them or to properly handle them because it isnt a requirement to get licensed.

This is a fact that concealed carry proponents are not going to like. Since concealed carry has gotten approved in fla the murder rate has gone up over 15%

To carry a sidearm one must prove they are proficient with that weapon and has had training with it. The permit should also list the weapon to be carried and thats the only weapon that person should be carrying after they have shown to be proficient with it.

I don't know Florida laws. I have on my mailing list two Florida residents. I had a third until she died due to cancer.

They never mention this to me. So to help you, I will cut and paste your comments and get their opinions on this given they are political and live in the same state.

[Bob]

In Idaho, it's an 8 hour class. BFD.

How many days do you think it takes to understand a gun and know how to aim one and when to aim one?

[Bob]

Issue enough guns and there will be no need for cops.....great way to save $$$.


Switzerland does that. Do you know their crime rates? Especially on death due to guns?

http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/


Even though Switzerland has not been involved in an armed conflict since a standoff between Catholics and Protestants in 1847, the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public. Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder.
(MORE: The World’s Best — and Worst — Places to Live (http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/12/05/the-worlds-best-and-worst-places-to-live/))
“We will never change our attitude about the responsible use of weapons by law-abiding citizens,” says Hermann Suter, vice president of Pro-Tell, the country’s gun lobby, named after legendary apple shooter William Tell, who used a crossbow to target enemies long before firearms were invented.

[PolWatch]

They require training here in VA, I am not sure of the quality of the class. As military that requirement was waived for me.

In Alabama they require that the check clears the bank.

[PolWatch]

Switzerland does that. Do you know their crime rates? Especially on death due to guns?

http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/

Perhaps its because they actually have a well-regulated militia....unlike America. Switzerland has citizen soldiers....not bikers with guns.

[Peter1469]

In Idaho, it's an 8 hour class. BFD.

To be really proficient it takes a lot more than that. I do agree that a lot of owners are not qualified to use their weapons safely.

[domer76]

Careful out on the mean streets of Boise.

We're safe. Hardly any coloreds

[domer76]

To be really proficient it takes a lot more than that. I do agree that a lot of owners are not qualified to use their weapons safely.

That's for the advanced concealed weapon permit. Allows you to carry on campus and the such. No need for regular CCW

[Peter1469]

Got it

[Bob]

Perhaps its because they actually have a well-regulated militia....unlike America. Switzerland has citizen soldiers....not bikers with guns.

There are millions upon millions of us that got very high quality training by the Government in the use of weapons. I don't fear citizens. I concern myself over criminals.

You can be trained to shoot decently in not a hell of a long time so long as you can count past 10.

[PolWatch]

uh-huh

[Bob]

That's for the advanced concealed weapon permit. Allows you to carry on campus and the such. No need for regular CCW

It is a pain to conceal a weapon. Do as the Army does and wear them openly. The idea is you want criminals to see them.

Criminals are stupid if they try to attack an openly armed person. We know they attack cops but all in all, a lot less cops get attacked than normal citizens.

[Bob]

uh-huh

You do realize that means Bob won?

[PolWatch]

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.R2LFk00iwcT6SaIkI21XAQ&pid=15.1&P=0

[Bob]

To be really proficient it takes a lot more than that. I do agree that a lot of owners are not qualified to use their weapons safely.

My hope is a wide use of open carry will end the vast need to actually shoot others.

Try the Switzerland tactic. It works there.

I had spent 2 years in high school being trained to shoot accurately. Still in the Army they trained me even more. I was already a very good shot when drafted but still they trained me more. It never hurt either.

I keep wondering how often the teachers teaching how to shoot just get plain bored and wish they were posting here instead?

[Peter1469]

I don't think that our Founders would have been keen on concealed carry.

[domer76]

How many days do you think it takes to understand a gun and know how to aim one and when to aim one?

How to? Not long. When to? Maybe never.

[Bob]

How to? Not long. When to? Maybe never.

Is it your position all cops must not carry arms?

[Mister D]

We're safe. Hardly any coloreds

You're trying to be a smart ass but you're right! :laugh: Idaho has one of the lowest murder rates in the country. It lost out only to lily white new Hampshire, Utah, Vermont and Iowa.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state#MRord

[Bob]

I don't think that our Founders would have been keen on concealed carry.

I finished reading Washington's secret 6 and turned it in to the library the 17th. Supposedly the library is in the computer age, but though they let us check out with their computers, they do not allow check in using computers. Thus I am held up not able to check out more books due to policy where they say official, I am late as of now. They will fix it hopefully by Monday.

I want to check out the book on Joseph Smith since it is alleged by his enemies to hurt him.

My real point though is to your point being the founders would not want concealed pistols. I can sort of believe that. Not sure it is fact or not, but sounds plausible. A lot of things in their era was honor of gentlemen and all that stuff we no longer see in the USA.

Think that over. We are no longer the nation of gentlemen. I blame Democrats mostly.

[Mister D]

That's for the advanced concealed weapon permit. Allows you to carry on campus and the such. No need for regular CCW

You have an abysmal murder rate. Maybe they hit on something?

[domer76]

Is it your position all cops must not carry arms?

WTF Bob?

[The Xl]

Gun crime isn't a problem, period. It doesn't matter what lense you look through. The stats don't back up that assertion

[Mister D]

Gun crime isn't a problem, period. It doesn't matter what lense you look through. The stats don't back up that assertion

Agreed.

[domer76]

You're trying to be a smart ass but you're right! :laugh: Idaho has one of the lowest murder rates in the country. It lost out only to lily white new Hampshire, Utah, Vermont and Iowa.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state#MRord

The safest place in Boise is the Boise State University campus. But, by golly, the barrel strokers worked like sonsabitches to get concealed carrh on campus passed. Why? To make them safer.

[Mister D]

The safest place in Boise is the Boise State University campus. But, by golly, the barrel strokers worked like sonsabitches to get concealed carrh on campus passed. Why? To make them safer.

The whole state seems pretty safe. After all, no coloreds. :wink:

[Bob]

Domer


http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=1183574#post1183574)
Is it your position all cops must not carry arms?

[zelmo1234]

Just 30,000 unnecessary deaths a year. No problem at all.

But about 19,000 of those are suicides, there are between 11 and 12 thousand gun related homicides a year in the USA. about 1500 of those are justifiable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

[Bob]

The whole state seems pretty safe. After all, no coloreds. :wink:

I saw zero blacks in Idaho nor in Utah my last time there.

[domer76]

But about 19,000 of those are suicides, there are between 11 and 12 thousand gun related homicides a year in the USA. about 1500 of those are justifiable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

I repeat. 30,000 unnecessary deaths a year.

[domer76]

The whole state seems pretty safe. After all, no coloreds. :wink:

I think they prefer to avoid the neo-Nazis

[Mister D]

I saw zero blacks in Idaho nor in Utah my last time there.

I'm very relieved to hear that. I know my Bo-4 is safe. :smiley:

[Mister D]

I think they prefer to avoid the neo-Nazis

Weird how neo-Nazis are a lot less violent than blacks, huh? Ell O Ell

[domer76]

Weird how neo-Nazis are a lot less violent than blacks, huh? Ell O Ell

And preferable to you in the neighborhood than the coloreds

[Mister D]

And preferable to you in the neighborhood than the coloreds

I didn't say that but Idahoans seem to feel that way.

[Mister D]

Then again, if neo-Nazis were real Nazis they'd be much more interesting.

[Bob]

I'm very relieved to hear that. I know my @Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297) is safe. :smiley:

BOfer is quite safe in Idaho.

[domer76]

I didn't say that but Idahoans seem to feel that way.

Not the Idahoans I hang out with. We did manage to run out many of the skinheads, but there are pockets. Mostly in the panhandle up north. But, we have our share of redneck bigots in SW Idaho.

[Cletus]

In spite of those who believe that more guns makes everyone safer, we seem to be having more gun violence. Its now easier for more people to have more powerful guns with fewer restrictions. Should every child be issued a gun at birth? Required for entry to kindergarten? What's the problem?

Posts like that are why you are relegated to the list of those to not be taken seriously... about anything.

[Cletus]

Then why are some so concerned with increasing the number of people carrying guns? Open carry in fast food joints, bars, churches, everywhere seems to be the goal. I thought this was in response to a problem that an increase in guns would solve.

Whose goal?

[Cletus]

I clicked on this thread hoping for a serious, informed discussion of the issue.

I should have known better.

[Redrose]

I dislike the idea of concealed carry, although I generally hold an ambivalent view of actual firearms legislation in the US (I don't advocate guns are the problem). I'd rather people be openly carrying a weapon so I can identify them rather than have no idea who is holding what. That seems slightly scary to me.


Open carry is more dangerous. Think about this, you are in MacDonalds, with kids and you have a gun (with a permit, your gun is visable on your person) A bad guy comes in with a weapon. If he sees you or anyone with a gun in open carry he'd take you out first, probably before you even realize there is a problem, you represent a threat to him. You always want the element of surprise.

[Dr. Who]

can't hurt. Obviously, the police aren't making us any safer.

There is a reason why the criminal element has no problem getting guns - it's because either it's really easy for a proxy to buy them legally, or equally valid, that so many people own them and don't secure them, so that they are regularly stolen and end up in criminal hands. When you have 300M guns in circulation, there is no chance that criminals won't have them. If each individual, responsible or not, can buy as many guns as their heart desires, and store them like they are carrots, then it would seem that a simple burglary of a home with a ridiculous unsecured gun collection would be a criminal treasure trove. The idea that personal responsibility is left out of this argument seems rather negligent.

[zelmo1234]

It appears in Florida there is an issue where convicted felon's are able to obtain Concealed carry permits?

I find this more than a little disturbing. Also there have been several case were restraining orders were issues. Which should bring immediate suspension of concealed carry? This does not happen.

There are some issues. they have about 3 times the number of homicides which involve permit holders. Still there have only been 24 since 2007 . 3 were deemed justifiable, including the Zimmerman case and one was by a N. Carolina permit holder, who's permit was revoked do to a pending felony prosecution.

So even with the issues that need to be corrected one can still see that See that concealed carry is not running up the murder numbers.

I suspect that is has more to do with the economy, and drug use

[Cletus]

It appears in Florida there is an issue where convicted felon's are able to obtain Concealed carry permits?

790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.—(1) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.001.html)(9). Such licenses shall be valid throughout the state for a period of 7 years from the date of issuance. Any person in compliance with the terms of such license may carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm notwithstanding the provisions of s. 790.01 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.01.html). The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court.
(2) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall issue a license if the applicant a) Is a resident of the United States and a citizen of the United States or a permanent resident alien of the United States, as determined by the United States Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services, or is a consular security official of a foreign government that maintains diplomatic relations and treaties of commerce, friendship, and navigation with the United States and is certified as such by the foreign government and by the appropriate embassy in this country;
(b) Is 21 years of age or older;
(c) Does not suffer from a physical infirmity which prevents the safe handling of a weapon or firearm;
(d) Is not ineligible to possess a firearm pursuant to s. 790.23 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.23.html) by virtue of having been convicted of a felony;

790.23 Felons and delinquents; possession of firearms, ammunition, or electric weapons or devices unlawful.—(1) It is unlawful for any person to own or to have in his or her care, custody, possession, or control any firearm, ammunition, or electric weapon or device, or to carry a concealed weapon, including a tear gas gun or chemical weapon or device, if that person has been:(a) Convicted of a felony in the courts of this state;
(b) Found, in the courts of this state, to have committed a delinquent act that would be a felony if committed by an adult and such person is under 24 years of age;
(c) Convicted of or found to have committed a crime against the United States which is designated as a felony;
(d) Found to have committed a delinquent act in another state, territory, or country that would be a felony if committed by an adult and which was punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year and such person is under 24 years of age; or
(e) Found guilty of an offense that is a felony in another state, territory, or country and which was punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year.

(2) This section shall not apply to a person convicted of a felony whose civil rights and firearm authority have been restored.

[zelmo1234]

790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.—(1) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.001.html)(9). Such licenses shall be valid throughout the state for a period of 7 years from the date of issuance. Any person in compliance with the terms of such license may carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm notwithstanding the provisions of s. 790.01 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.01.html). The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court.
(2) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall issue a license if the applicant a) Is a resident of the United States and a citizen of the United States or a permanent resident alien of the United States, as determined by the United States Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services, or is a consular security official of a foreign government that maintains diplomatic relations and treaties of commerce, friendship, and navigation with the United States and is certified as such by the foreign government and by the appropriate embassy in this country;
(b) Is 21 years of age or older;
(c) Does not suffer from a physical infirmity which prevents the safe handling of a weapon or firearm;
(d) Is not ineligible to possess a firearm pursuant to s. 790.23 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.23.html) by virtue of having been convicted of a felony;

790.23 Felons and delinquents; possession of firearms, ammunition, or electric weapons or devices unlawful.—(1) It is unlawful for any person to own or to have in his or her care, custody, possession, or control any firearm, ammunition, or electric weapon or device, or to carry a concealed weapon, including a tear gas gun or chemical weapon or device, if that person has been:(a) Convicted of a felony in the courts of this state;
(b) Found, in the courts of this state, to have committed a delinquent act that would be a felony if committed by an adult and such person is under 24 years of age;
(c) Convicted of or found to have committed a crime against the United States which is designated as a felony;
(d) Found to have committed a delinquent act in another state, territory, or country that would be a felony if committed by an adult and which was punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year and such person is under 24 years of age; or
(e) Found guilty of an offense that is a felony in another state, territory, or country and which was punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year.

(2) This section shall not apply to a person convicted of a felony whose civil rights and firearm authority have been restored.






Yes, this is the written law, and I know that this is an anti gun site.

http://csgv.org/resources/2013/homicides-committed-by-concealed-handgun-permit-holders-in-florida/

But if you research these cases you will find that several did actually have a felony conviction and a valid CCW permit? There are also 2 that the felony was the murder that was committed.

So there is a flaw in the system in FL either people are not getting proper back ground checks run before the issuing of the permits, or they are not being revoked when they commit crimes.

[Vilifier of Zombies]

The rise of conceal carry (http://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2015/07/17/the_rise_of_concealed_carry_1369.html)

Real Clear Policy brings us this study about the rise of conceal carry in the US. The hard left hates guns yet has no political power to ban them or even add more laws. Impotent would be the word that comes to mind.

Meanwhile, Americans are getting carry conceal permits.



Read more at the link.

I'd rather see more CCW's issued than the dumb fucks open carrying AR-10's at Starbucks.

It stands to reason you don't want a would be assailant to know you're armed. That that's the first thing they're going to go after if they're going to go after anything -and they'll more likely have the drop on whatever dumb fuck thinks its a good idea to open carry at any or all establishments.

The day and age of leaving your shotgun in the gun rack in the back window of a pickup truck is long past in much of America.

[Vilifier of Zombies]

There is a reason why the criminal element has no problem getting guns - it's because either it's really easy for a proxy to buy them legally, or equally valid, that so many people own them and don't secure them, so that they are regularly stolen and end up in criminal hands. When you have 300M guns in circulation, there is no chance that criminals won't have them. If each individual, responsible or not, can buy as many guns as their heart desires, and store them like they are carrots, then it would seem that a simple burglary of a home with a ridiculous unsecured gun collection would be a criminal treasure trove. The idea that personal responsibility is left out of this argument seems rather negligent.

Well -guns are outlawed in Mexico. That isn't quite working out like it was supposed to.

That said, Mexico's government is inept.

There are countries that allow its citizens to own guns without suffering the same violent gun crime or murder rates the U.S. does.

Our culture has an abundance of dumb fucks that ought not be near firearms -much less own them.

[Peter1469]

Open carry is more dangerous. Think about this, you are in MacDonalds, with kids and you have a gun (with a permit, your gun is visable on your person) A bad guy comes in with a weapon. If he sees you or anyone with a gun in open carry he'd take you out first, probably before you even realize there is a problem, you represent a threat to him. You always want the element of surprise.

Or more likely, turn around and go somewhere else.

[Peter1469]

Well -guns are outlawed in Mexico. That isn't quite working out like it was supposed to.

That said, Mexico's government is inept.

There are countries that allow its citizens to own guns without suffering the same violent gun crime or murder rates the U.S. does.

Our culture has an abundance of dumb fucks that ought not be near firearms -much less own them.

Suicide aside, most of the gun violence in the US is associated with gangs and their associated criminal activity. And much of that is fuels by the so called war on drugs.

[PolWatch]

If the suicides were removed from the numbers as gun violence and if gun use related to the War on Drugs were also removed....what would the stats show? I suspect those numbers would spike the guns on both sides of the argument.

[domer76]

If the suicides were removed from the numbers as gun violence and if gun use related to the War on Drugs were also removed....what would the stats show? I suspect those numbers would spike the guns on both sides of the argument.

The bottom line is you CAN'T remove those other factors. They're there and part of the numbers of unecessary deaths.

[Mister D]

There is a reason why the criminal element has no problem getting guns - it's because either it's really easy for a proxy to buy them legally, or equally valid, that so many people own them and don't secure them, so that they are regularly stolen and end up in criminal hands. When you have 300M guns in circulation, there is no chance that criminals won't have them. If each individual, responsible or not, can buy as many guns as their heart desires, and store them like they are carrots, then it would seem that a simple burglary of a home with a ridiculous unsecured gun collection would be a criminal treasure trove. The idea that personal responsibility is left out of this argument seems rather negligent.

Straw purchases (how many criminals obtain their firearms) are already illegal and people go to jail for it. Why do you expect criminals to be responsible citizens? Perhaps we should enact a law that requires criminals to be responsible.

[Mister D]

I'd rather see more CCW's issued than the dumb $#@!s open carrying AR-10's at Starbucks.

It stands to reason you don't want a would be assailant to know you're armed. That that's the first thing they're going to go after if they're going to go after anything -and they'll more likely have the drop on whatever dumb $#@! thinks its a good idea to open carry at any or all establishments.

The day and age of leaving your shotgun in the gun rack in the back window of a pickup truck is long past in much of America.

Yeah, that shit is retarded. Pardon my French.

[Vilifier of Zombies]

Yeah, that shit is retarded. Pardon my French.



There's no reason for it. Not unlike a Freudian Slip -some baby daddy 'pops' wasn't there for 'em issues -'look at me' or 'cries for help.' Pointless.

[Mister D]

There's no reason for it. Not unlike a Freudian Slip -some baby daddy 'pops' wasn't there for 'em issues -'look at me' or 'cries for help.' Pointless.

I have to admit that would make me uncomfortable. It also puts any cops around on edge. Only bad things can happen.

[Adelaide]

There are a hell of a lot of anti cop threads being posted. By guess who? Democrats.

It's in the news and I don't really see holding people accountable as being "anti-cop". Many of the cops/incidents being posted about should make other cops angry for making the profession/occupation look badly.

[Vilifier of Zombies]

I have to admit that would make me uncomfortable. It also puts any cops around on edge. Only bad things can happen.

Absolutely. Cops have enough on their plate as it is. They don't need a Hacksaw Jim Duggan look-a-like openly brandishing a loaded AK-47 at Chucky Cheese. It certainly won't make their day any easier. That -and its just in bad taste.

[Bo-4]

I'm very relieved to hear that. I know my @Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297) is safe. :smiley:

Bob is a Mormon. That means he was either in the Mormon capitol city of Salt Lake or Eastern Idaho (Pocatello/Idaho Falls -- also MormonLand)

He wouldn't find Boise conservative enough for him and 1% is TOO MANY BLACKS!

:biglaugh:

https://suburbanstats.org/population/idaho/how-many-people-live-in-boise

[Bob]

It's in the news and I don't really see holding people accountable as being "anti-cop". Many of the cops/incidents being posted about should make other cops angry for making the profession/occupation look badly.

Can you give us the figures on how many bad cops, by percentage, there are?

The police force is well disciplined and locate bad cops faster than the public finds them in general. But government is not perfect.

[Tahuyaman]

Bob is a Mormon. That means he was either in the Mormon capitol city of Salt Lake or Eastern Idaho (Pocatello/Idaho Falls -- also MormonLand)

He wouldn't find Boise conservative enough for him and 1% is TOO MANY BLACKS!

:biglaugh:

https://suburbanstats.org/population/idaho/how-many-people-live-in-boise


This is guy has the unique ability to say the most incredibly dumb things.

[Tahuyaman]

Can you give us the figures on how many bad cops, by percentage, there are?

The police force is well disciplined and locate bad cops faster than the public finds them in general. But government is not perfect.

some people say all cops are bad cops.

[Bo-4]

This is guy has the unique ability to say the most incredibly dumb things.

I would agree with your assessment about Bob. ;-)

[Bo-4]

I have to admit that would make me uncomfortable. It also puts any cops around on edge. Only bad things can happen.

Thanks Mister Mister..

and here i thought you were a supporter of idiots such as this standing around the salad bar for your children to navigate en route to their nutritious yummies! :)

http://www.gunssavelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/jackasses.jpg

[PolWatch]

Thanks Mister Mister..

and here i thought you were a supporter of idiots such as this standing around the salad bar for your children to navigate en route to their nutritious yummies! :)



They have to be prepared to get the last biscuit.....you can tell they have been successful in keeping others away from the all-you-can-eat buffet!

[Bob]

Bob is a Mormon. That means he was either in the Mormon capitol city of Salt Lake or Eastern Idaho (Pocatello/Idaho Falls -- also MormonLand)

He wouldn't find Boise conservative enough for him and 1% is TOO MANY BLACKS!

:biglaugh:

https://suburbanstats.org/population/idaho/how-many-people-live-in-boise

FACT

I, Bob ... have spent over many years, many months in Salt Lake City. At most I spent a month there.

Pocatello, been there one time. Spent the night and early AM there.

Boise. Also been there one afternoon and part of the next AM. As with Pocatello, hardly drove around the town.

With Salt Lake City, I have seen much of that city.

[Vilifier of Zombies]

lol, are you really a Mormon, Bob?

[Vilifier of Zombies]

Bob is a Mormon. That means he was either in the Mormon capitol city of Salt Lake or Eastern Idaho (Pocatello/Idaho Falls -- also MormonLand)

He wouldn't find Boise conservative enough for him and 1% is TOO MANY BLACKS!

:biglaugh:

https://suburbanstats.org/population/idaho/how-many-people-live-in-boise

It is as white as the driven snow. But I can't stand the ACC -and I like the blue field -more so, I like their home record on that blue field -so -Boise State gets a pass the same way Oregon gets a pass for smashing Florida State.

Besides, Boise is actually a cool town. It's got good food, good vodka, a nice vibe -and great pizza. There's also a horseshoe in the river that goes thru the city -you can float and drink and float some more. I great way to spend a Saturday morning.

[Mister D]

lol, are you really a Mormon, Bob?

Yes. We have two, actually.

[Mister D]

Thanks Mister Mister..

and here i thought you were a supporter of idiots such as this standing around the salad bar for your children to navigate en route to their nutritious yummies! :)

http://www.gunssavelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/jackasses.jpg

The problem, as usual, is that extremist loons get all the attention on both sides. It makes discussion difficult.

[PolWatch]

Yes. We have two, actually.

4

[Mister D]

4

Oh, Dark Mistress. Who is the other one?

[Tahuyaman]

Bob is a Mormon. That means he was either in the Mormon capitol city of Salt Lake or Eastern Idaho (Pocatello/Idaho Falls -- also MormonLand)

He wouldn't find Boise conservative enough for him and 1% is TOO MANY BLACKS!

:biglaugh:

https://suburbanstats.org/population/idaho/how-many-people-live-in-boise


This is guy has the unique ability to say the most incredibly dumb things.


I would agree with your assessment about Bob. ;-)


And that is an example.