Prison reform, a bipartisan issue

[Peter1469]

Some members mentioned the high incarceration rate in the US (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/12/upshot/how-to-cut-the-prison-population-see-for-yourself.html?_r=1&abt=0002&abg=1). Some trolls derailed it. Hopefully that doesn't happen here.

We need to reform our prison policies and not lock up non-violent criminals and add programs to reform prisoners rather than just stick them in warehouses for the length of their convictions.


When President Obama, the Koch brothers, the American Civil Liberties Union and Newt Gingrich all agree on an issue, you know that something important may be happening.And you also know that there must be a catch, or maybe three.


“Criminal justice reform” — cutting back on a rate of incarceration that jumped fourfold in four decades (http://www.nap.edu/catalog/18613/the-growth-of-incarceration-in-the-united-states-exploring-causes) — has become a bipartisan buzzword. Many people of different political stripes agree that too many Americans are being imprisoned for too long, with too little rehabilitation, consuming public budgets and hollowing out African-American communities (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/04/20/upshot/missing-black-men.html?_r=0) in particular.


Although the number of people held in state and federal prisons appears to have leveled off at about 1.6 million — 2.2 million if those in local jails are counted — some scholars and activists are calling for far more ambitious change. They ask: Why not reduce the prison population by a quarter or even by half? (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/07/us/aclu-in-dollar50-million-push-to-reduce-jail-sentences.html) (That would still leave it far higher than it was a few decades back, when crime was more rampant than today.)

[Mac-7]

Reform criminals?

Thats a new idea that no liberal ever tried before.

actually people have been trying to rehabilitate criminals since the Victorian era without much success.

But every 40 years or so a new generation comes along to repeat the mistakes.

[Cigar]

:rollseyes: Wow that didn't long.

[Cigar]

Some members mentioned the high incarceration rate in the US (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/12/upshot/how-to-cut-the-prison-population-see-for-yourself.html?_r=1&abt=0002&abg=1). Some trolls derailed it. Hopefully that doesn't happen here.

We need to reform our prison policies and not lock up non-violent criminals and add programs to reform prisoners rather than just stick them in warehouses for the length of their convictions.

It's simple Fiscal Economics ... you lock someone up for 10 and 15 years for a none violent offense, pay their room, food and healthcare and don't teach them anything in that time. All they learn is how to be a worse criminal from other criminals ... and the cycle begins.

[Mac-7]

:rollseyes: Wow that didn't long.

Since I disagree with the op I suppose I will be accused of trolling.

[Peter1469]

It's simple Fiscal Economics ... you lock someone up for 10 and 15 years for a none violent offense, pay their room, food and healthcare and don't teach them anything in that time. All they learn is how to be a worse criminal from other criminals ... and the cycle begins.

Yes, that is true.

It is cheaper in the long run to rehab people. There are lots of things that can be done as opposed to warehouse them for the duration.

[donttread]

Reform will never happen until prohibition is repealed

[jimmyz]

Take private companies out of the prison business. Then the monetary incentive to lock-up people needlessly may go away.

[Peter1469]

Take private companies out of the prison business. Then the monetary incentive to lock-up people needlessly may go away.
Private business isn't the issue.

What society pays for is the issue. If society paid a private prison to rehab prisoners they would rehab prisoners. But we don't. We pay them to warehouse prisoners.

[Common Sense]

Private business isn't the issue.

What society pays for is the issue. If society paid a private prison to rehab prisoners they would rehab prisoners. But we don't. We pay them to warehouse prisoners.

Private business is an issue when they in turn form a powerful lobby group that tries to influence lawmakers.

But you're right that it should be a bipartisan issue.

[zelmo1234]

Prison is not prison any more

I agree 100% that Private industry should not be a part of the system. The prisoners can and should take care of themselves.

Everything from growing crops and butchering animals, sewing uniforms, taking classes and learning a vocation all should be part of their own upkeep. Non violent offenders would be given the most freedom the more serious the crime, the less liberty the inmate has.

this makes them get up early and go to bed late and tired. they will learn a vocation or finish high school

Everything should be self contain and the inmates should be providing the free labor.

[whatukno]

Private for profit prisons are an issue, this needs to stop in this country. Everyone makes money on the petty crimes that these people are being locked up for, hell, people are being locked up for homelessness, child support, drug offenses, shit they should never see the inside of a jail cell for. But they get put away.

Rehabilitation, and not punishment is what is needed in our prison system.

[Bob]

Reform criminals?

Thats a new idea that no liberal ever tried before.

actually people have been trying to rehabilitate criminals since the Victorian era without much success.

But every 40 years or so a new generation comes along to repeat the mistakes.

I am agreeing with you on this.

I truly want criminals reformed. But they come to crime with a history. How can they get reformed. If there are enough skilled professionals, trying to reform them, will states really put up the cash to pay them all? These men are dead serious about crime. They really enjoy crime.

They feel rewarded by crime. It would be great to reform them. But it seems they remain in jail.

[Bob]

Prison is not prison any more

I agree 100% that Private industry should not be a part of the system. The prisoners can and should take care of themselves.

Everything from growing crops and butchering animals, sewing uniforms, taking classes and learning a vocation all should be part of their own upkeep. Non violent offenders would be given the most freedom the more serious the crime, the less liberty the inmate has.

this makes them get up early and go to bed late and tired. they will learn a vocation or finish high school

Everything should be self contain and the inmates should be providing the free labor.

I agree. They should be working their asses off. Not with rock busting, but real work that can be applied when they get out.

[Bob]

Private business is an issue when they in turn form a powerful lobby group that tries to influence lawmakers.

But you're right that it should be a bipartisan issue.

I have SAID and SAId over and over, lobbyists bend lawmakers ears.

Now that it soaked in, not one lobbyist ... many lobbyists.

One proposes private jails. Lobbyist 2 wants the current system

I hear bad thing about private jails, but never spent time in any jail.

I am wondering how posters get to be experts of private jails?

[decedent]

Reform criminals?

Thats a new idea that no liberal ever tried before.

actually people have been trying to rehabilitate criminals since the Victorian era without much success.

But every 40 years or so a new generation comes along to repeat the mistakes.

The libz are trying to take away the fun of watching people suffer. I'm willing to pay taxes to see a pot smoker locked up for 5 years and made unemployable when they get out. If he's the breadwinner of his family, that's even more fun because they'll have to go on welfare.

[Peter1469]

The private or public running of prisons is a straw man.

The real issue is how much money will society spend on prisons.

For those actually interested in the topic of prison reform, Doug Noll (http://www.prisonofpeace.org/) is a leader in the movement. He is a California attorney who specializes in negotiations, mediation, conflict resolution and applies these skills to prison reform. He founded the Prisons of Peace Project (http://www.prisonofpeace.org/) which stresses rehabilitation of prisoners.

Many people in jail never were taught the skills necessary to get along with other people.


Prison of Peace is a non-profit organization, established in 2010, in order to reduce violence and promote peaceful conflict resolution among prison inmates.
Learn more about how we do it HERE (http://laurel-kaufer.squarespace.com/program).

Through Prison of Peace, incarcerated individuals are led through intensive workshops as they progress through the various program levels from Peacemaker to Certified Trainer, mastering the art of communication and conflict resolution, enabling them to create safer, more peaceful lives for themselves and others, in prison and beyond.




Who runs the prison isn't the issue. The issue is what the prison does with the people inside of it.

[Adelaide]

I agree that the privatized system isn't working.

But I also don't think people should be going to prison for most drug offenses. The amount of people incarcerated or who have been incarcerated is absolutely ridiculous, especially for non-violent offenders who committed drug crimes specifically.

[donttread]

I agree that the privatized system isn't working.

But I also don't think people should be going to prison for most drug offenses. The amount of people incarcerated or who have been incarcerated is absolutely ridiculous, especially for non-violent offenders who committed drug crimes specifically.


And then they come out labeled for life never to be able to make a decent legal living again. Great system, huh. Here in the "Land of the used to be free"

[Peter1469]

They become telemarketers and bother us at dinner time.

[Ivan88]

Reforming the law enforcement growth industry is like trying to reform the foreign war industry.
The people who profit from both rackets don't want to lose their blood money.

Here's how some folks in Columbia decided to reform the law enforcement growth industry:
http://www.rt.com/news/273961-colombia-black-hawk-explosion/

[Dr. Who]

Reform criminals?

Thats a new idea that no liberal ever tried before.

actually people have been trying to rehabilitate criminals since the Victorian era without much success.

But every 40 years or so a new generation comes along to repeat the mistakes.
Until America has bases on new planets that need starter populations (much like Great Britain did with Australia), filling the prisons with more and more people for crimes like possession of drugs is idiotic and a drain on the federal coffers. Welfare is by far cheaper than incarceration and doesn't turn a drug user into a graduate from crime school.

[Captain Obvious]

Until America has bases on new planets that need starter populations (much like Great Britain did with Australia), filling the prisons with more and more people for crimes like possession of drugs is idiotic and a drain on the federal coffers. Welfare is by far cheaper than incarceration and doesn't turn a drug user into a graduate from crime school.

Massive enablement

[donttread]

How about a system where the prisoners grow there own food, make their own furniture , tend to the grounds, keep the books as far as production cost and clean their own facility

[Peter1469]

How about a system where the prisoners grow there own food, make their own furniture , tend to the grounds, keep the books as far as production cost and clean their own facility

Angola has a large farm.

[Peter1469]

The Koch Bros also call for prison reform. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2015/08/15/clemency-the-issue-that-obama-and-the-koch-brothers-actually-agree-on/?hpid=z1)


“Monstrous,” said Koch, 79, of the Angelos case. “Obscene. Somebody makes one mistake, violates a law — and I’m not talking about people who are violent criminals who are hurting people and destroying property — and their lives are ruined by these massive sentences.”

Koch and his brother, David, have used their vast wealth to counter Obama at almost every turn, from the administration’s initiatives on climate change to health-care reform. But their recent detente began with a 45-minute meeting at the White House between one of the president’s most trusted confidantes and the top lawyer for Koch Industries.

Read more at the link.