Ben Carson's rebuttal

[Ravens Fan]

This came through on my Facebook feed, from a close friend who's 18 year old son has been on of Dr. Carson's patients for most of his life.




https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-1/c0.0.32.32/p32x32/11817005_508551109311360_3615817160270665978_n.jpg ?oh=9310b4c7d708d4abdf45a950b70664ae&oe=56430045&__gda__=1447694689_300ac75bf849cd03dd0e279dd0b29d0 5 (https://www.facebook.com/realbencarson/posts/513020902197714)Dr. Ben Carson (https://www.facebook.com/realbencarson/posts/513020902197714?fref=nf)


I wanted to use our time tonight to directly deal with an attack launched on me today by the left and the media. A couple questions came in on this subject, so... I want to address it head on.

Today I was accused by the press as having done research on fetal tissue. It simply is not true. The study they distributed by an anonymous source was done in 1992. The study was about tumors. I won’t bore you with the science. There were four doctors' names on the study. One was mine. I spent my life studying brain tumors and removing them. My only involvement in this study was supplying tumors that I had removed from my patients. Those tissue samples were compared to other tissue samples under a microscope. Pathologists do this work to gain clues about tumors.

I, nor any of the doctors involved with this study, had anything to do with abortion or what Planned Parenthood has been doing. Research hospitals across the country have microscope slides of all kinds of tissue to compare and contrast. The fetal tissue that was viewed in this study by others was not collected for this study.

I am sickened by the attack that I, after having spent my entire life caring for children, had something to do with aborting a child and harvesting organs. My medical specialty is the human brain and even I am amazed at what it is capable of doing. Please know these attacks are pathetic attempts to blunt our progress.

Now lets get to answering your questions.

Nancy in Arkansas wants to know how my mother is doing.

Nancy, you know my mother is the only reason I stand here today. I surely would have been lost if it were not for her. She is an amazing woman. If she were the Secretary of Treasury, I assure you we would have a surplus. My mother was very ill when I announced my candidacy. The family was called in by her doctors. We surrounded her and prayed as did millions of you. She began to eat again. She has her strength back. She is doing as well as we can expect. Thank you for asking.

The next question is from Bill. He wanted to know if it was true that I was offered a slot at West Point after high school.

Bill, that is true. I was the highest student ROTC member in Detroit and was thrilled to get an offer from West Point. But I knew medicine is what I wanted to do. So I applied to only one school. (it was all the money I had). I applied to Yale and thank God they accepted me. I often wonder what might have happened had they said no.

Last question as it is getting late. A young nurse in Ohio wants to know how many patients did I treat during my career.

I treated over 15,000 patients in some 57 countries. We lived in Australia for a while as well. One of the most gratifying moments of each day is when I run into a former patient like I did tonight. My patients were all quite ill. I love seeing them with their families living normal lives. I think it is more gratifying than serving in Congress.

Speaking of serving in Congress. I constantly get asked how could I possibly become President when I have no political experience. Here is what I say. The current Members of Congress have a combined 8,788 years of political experience. How is that working out? People forget that of our 56 founding fathers who risked it all to sign the Declaration of Independence, Five were Doctors.

Good night,

Ben

[Lineman]

Why is Carson politicizing this just now that he wants to be Doc in Chief?

[Redrose]

He's a good man, a fine man. This country could do a lot worse. In fact, we have done a lot worse.

[AeonPax]

Why is Carson politicizing this just now that he wants to be Doc in Chief?
`
He'd make a great Surgeon General.

[Mac-7]

Why is Carson politicizing this just now that he wants to be Doc in Chief?

Carson was smeared by the abortionists who are shilling for planned parenthood by accusing him of performing fetal tissue research.

[Chris]

Isn't it ironic that the left will use a pro-life argument?

[Cigar]

http://static.celebuzz.com/uploads/2015/05/leonardo-dicaprio-chanel-purse-52015-2.gif


Ben Carson: Planned Parenthood wants to control the black populationTea Party favorite Ben Carson has a new theory about the women's health organization Planned Parenthood, which includes controlling the black population.

http://www.examiner.com/article/ben-carson-claims-planned-parenthood-is-trying-to-control-the-black-population

:smiley_ROFLMAO: I say go ahead, use YOUR Vote for him.

[midcan5]

"Carson appears to be saying that the fetal tissue he used for research didn't come from fetuses aborted specifically for use in medical research. He also appears to accuse Planned Parenthood of doing just that. But that's a charge Planned Parenthood has flatly rejected and isn't proved by the videos."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/13/ben-carsons-tortured-defense-of-his-research-with-fetal-tissue/

[PolWatch]

If there is any actual evidence that PP was selling tissue, why the delay in charging & arresting those people? Could it be, this is another political tempest in a teapot? Would anyone be trying to manufacture another non-issue to distract people from real issues?

Just resume the hysterics, don't let logic interfere.

[Captain Obvious]

http://memecrunch.com/meme/18GMO/i-hope-ben-carson-runs-in-2016/image.png

[Chris]

If there is any actual evidence that PP was selling tissue, why the delay in charging & arresting those people? Could it be, this is another political tempest in a teapot? Would anyone be trying to manufacture another non-issue to distract people from real issues?

Just resume the hysterics, don't let logic interfere.

I think the question revolves around whether PP profited. I think in the end they within the letter of the law, but what's legal has moral repercussions.

[Ravens Fan]

http://static.celebuzz.com/uploads/2015/05/leonardo-dicaprio-chanel-purse-52015-2.gif


Ben Carson: Planned Parenthood wants to control the black population

Tea Party favorite Ben Carson has a new theory about the women's health organization Planned Parenthood, which includes controlling the black population.

http://www.examiner.com/article/ben-carson-claims-planned-parenthood-is-trying-to-control-the-black-population

:smiley_ROFLMAO: I say go ahead, use YOUR Vote for him.

This thread is not about Planned Parenthood, it is about Dr. Carson rebutting claims that he personally conducted research on fetal tissue. A claim that you have used on this forum. Please try to keep up.

[Cigar]

http://static.celebuzz.com/uploads/2015/05/leonardo-dicaprio-chanel-purse-52015-2.gif


Ben Carson: Planned Parenthood wants to control the black population

Tea Party favorite Ben Carson has a new theory about the women's health organization Planned Parenthood, which includes controlling the black population.

http://www.examiner.com/article/ben-carson-claims-planned-parenthood-is-trying-to-control-the-black-population

:smiley_ROFLMAO: I say go ahead, use YOUR Vote for him.

This Post is about what "Actually Came Out of Ben Carson's mouth" ... try to rebut that. :wink:

[Ravens Fan]

This Post is about what "Actually Came Out of Ben Carson's mouth" ... try to rebut that. :wink:

Then start a thread about it...

[del]

numerous sources say that he did indeed conduct research using fetal tissue.

[Ravens Fan]

numerous sources say that he did indeed conduct research using fetal tissue.

Any proof or links with proof? I am not defending the man, just showing where he speaks directly to the accusations.

[Cigar]

numerous sources say that he did indeed conduct research using fetal tissue.

Don't bother, just watch the denial.

[Cigar]

Then start a thread about it...

I'll respond anyway "I" chose to respond, not how "you" chose.

Sorry, it's 2015, not 1915

[Captain Obvious]

numerous sources say that he did indeed conduct research using fetal tissue.

Same sources that told you Fiorina ran HP into the ground?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wFVaH83Lmn0/U7FsWmk0VdI/AAAAAAAAAaA/_2vz_j1WFtA/s1600/aceventurathumbsup.gif

[Ravens Fan]

I'll respond anyway "I" chose to respond, not how "you" chose.

Sorry, it's 2015, not 1915

I am simply asking you to start your new topic in a different thread, rather than change the subject of mine. Pesky rules and all...

[Cigar]

Same sources that told you Fiorina ran HP into the ground?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wFVaH83Lmn0/U7FsWmk0VdI/AAAAAAAAAaA/_2vz_j1WFtA/s1600/aceventurathumbsup.gif

Former Hewlett-Packard executive Carly Fiorina threw her name in the 2016 presidential race Monday. She’s not likely, though, to get a ringing endorsement from investors of HP; the company under her got bigger but less healthy.


Fiorina’s roughly six-year tenure as the first female CEO of a company in the Dow Jones industrial average is still one of great contention. “Fiorina was bad. Everyone seems to agree on this now,” wrote then-technology USA TODAY columnist Keven Maney (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/maney/2005-02-15-maney_x.htm) immediately following her forced ouster Feb. 8, 2005.
Some thought her tenure would be cleared as time passed. But that really hasn’t been the case.


The stock under Fiorina was a disaster — falling 65% from July 19, 1999, to Feb. 8, 2005. It was a tough time for the stock market, too, as the Standard & Poor’s 500 dropped 15% during the same time. But HP’s stock even underperformed the S&P 500 Information Technology Sector index.

https://usatmarkets.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/capture10.jpg?w=1000&h=354

But those investors can be so shallow, right? What about the actual performance of the business? Fiorina didn’t make much progress on the company’s profit, despite making massive bets such as buying computer maker Compaq. The company’s net income under Fiorina didn’t budge during her tenure and even dropped into the red in 2002. HP’s net income was flat during the period, even while reported net income of the S&P 500 rose 70%.

https://usatmarkets.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/capture11.jpg?w=1000&h=415


Fiorina did make the company larger in terms of revenue. The company’s total revenue jumped, largely due to massive acquisitions like Compaq.
https://usatmarkets.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/capture12.jpg?w=1000&h=401Source: S&P Capital IQ

But that came by piling on massive amounts of debt, too.
https://usatmarkets.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/capture13.jpg?w=1000&h=392Chart source; S&P Capital IQ

That’s right. She created a larger company — with more debt. Wonder how that would work in government?


Voters may be willing to give Fiorina a try. But investors were harsher — forcing her out of Hewlett-Packard.


Jeffrey Sonnenfeld of Yale University at the time labeled her “the worst (CEO) because of her ruthless attack on the essence of this great company,” in USA TODAY. He added: “She destroyed half the wealth of her investors and yet still earned almost $100 million in total payments for this destructive reign of terror.”

http://americasmarkets.usatoday.com/2015/05/04/president-fiorina-how-carly-did-at-hp/

http://sites.psu.edu/rclweber2017/wp-content/uploads/sites/5651/2014/02/Sad-Swallow-Gum.jpg

[Mac-7]

This Post is about what "Actually Came Out of Ben Carson's mouth" ... try to rebut that. :wink:

Since you keep telling us that Hillary is going to be the next president why do you care who the repubs nominate?

[Cigar]

Same sources that told you Fiorina ran HP into the ground?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wFVaH83Lmn0/U7FsWmk0VdI/AAAAAAAAAaA/_2vz_j1WFtA/s1600/aceventurathumbsup.gif

Careful Ravens Fan wants you to stay on Topic

[Cigar]

Since you keep telling us that Hillary is going to be the next president why do you care who the repubs nominate?

Please post the Thread where I made that prediction.

Take your time.

[PolWatch]

Anyone associated with medical research pertaining to birth defects has either used or benefited from the use of fetal tissue. Paint it, hide it, put lipstick on it.....its still a fact. Ask the parents of a Downs syndrome child or one born with spinal bifida if the research is important.

[Mac-7]

Please post the Thread where I made that prediction.

Take your time.

I don't catalog your bloviating remarks.

But I do seem to remember it.

I could be wrong but I doubt it.

[Ravens Fan]

Anyone associated with medical research pertaining to birth defects has either used or benefited from the use of fetal tissue. Paint it, hide it, put lipstick on it.....its still a fact. Ask the parents of a Downs syndrome child or one born with spinal bifida if the research is important.

I agree. My only problem would be with the methods used to obtain that fetal tissue. Dr. Carson has admitted to using tumors removed from his patients, and explained why.

Again, I am not supporting his presidential bid, but I have met him and feel that he is a good man.

[Chris]

Don't bother, just watch the denial.


Denial of what?




I'll respond anyway "I" chose to respond, not how "you" chose.

Sorry, it's 2015, not 1915


Careful Ravens Fan wants you to stay on Topic

What's that idiom about goose and gander?

[del]

Any proof or links with proof? I am not defending the man, just showing where he speaks directly to the accusations.

what would you consider to be proof?

i googled it and about a dozen reputable sources said the same thing- he did research on fetal tissue.

personally, i don't see the issue, but i'm not running around accusing pp of selling baby body parts, either.

[del]

Same sources that told you Fiorina ran HP into the ground?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wFVaH83Lmn0/U7FsWmk0VdI/AAAAAAAAAaA/_2vz_j1WFtA/s1600/aceventurathumbsup.gif

no, i got to watch that first hand.

thanks for asking

[Chris]

what would you consider to be proof?

i googled it and about a dozen reputable sources said the same thing- he did research on fetal tissue.

personally, i don't see the issue, but i'm not running around accusing pp of selling baby body parts, either.



Evidence rather than appeals to authority.

[Ravens Fan]

what would you consider to be proof?

You are the one making the claim. I just want something other than you saying "yes he did". Something that backs your argument.


i googled it and about a dozen reputable sources said the same thing- he did research on fetal tissue.

And he refuted that claim in the Facebook post I used for the OP.


personally, i don't see the issue, but i'm not running around accusing pp of selling baby body parts, either.

[del]

Evidence rather than appeals to authority.

fuck off

if he wants to google it himself, he can.

[del]

You are the one making the claim. I just want something other than you saying "yes he did". Something that backs your argument.



And he refuted that claim in the Facebook post I used for the OP.

good for him. i made no such claim- i just said what i read at numerous sources.

hillary says she gave up all her emails.

i believe her just as much as i believe dr carson.

[Ravens Fan]

good for him. i made no such claim- i just said what i read at numerous sources.

Then I will not waste my time addressing your post, he already did in my OP.


hillary says she gave up all her emails.

i believe her just as much as i believe dr carson.

I would tend to believe just about anyone over Hillary, but Dr. Carson does not have a record of lies, nor has he been a career politician all of his life. Until he proves otherwise, I believe he is sincere.

[Cigar]

Then I will not waste my time addressing your post, he already did in my OP.



I would tend to believe just about anyone over Hillary, but Dr. Carson does not have a record of lies, nor has he been a career politician all of his life. Until he proves otherwise, I believe he is sincere.

Then what's the argument ... Vote for him.

[Chris]

fuck off

if he wants to google it himself, he can.


IOW, you have no argument again. Thanks.

[Ravens Fan]

Then what's the argument ... Vote for him.

Umm.... we are on what is called a political discussion forum. If you don't like the discussion, don't click on the thread.

[Cigar]

Umm.... we are on what is called a political discussion forum. If you don't like the discussion, don't click on the thread.

So let me get this correct, you would be one of the first to report Personal Attacks on Forum Members who Post Political Threads ... Correct? :huh:

I'm playing the Game exactly how the Game is being allowed to be Played.

[Chris]

So let me get this correct, you would be one of the first to report Personal Attacks on Forum Members who Post Political Threads ... Correct? :huh:

I'm playing the Game exactly how the Game is being allowed to be Played.

No, he said if you don't want to discuss the topic, then don't. Makes perfect sense.

[Ravens Fan]

So let me get this correct, you would be one of the first to report Personal Attacks on Forum Members who Post Political Threads ... Correct? :huh:

Are you putting words in my mouth? I don't think I have ever reported anyone, except when a thread is in the wrong sub-forum.

You were the one dismissing any discussion on Dr. Carson, not me. I did not report you. Did not attack you. I suggest that if you do not want to discuss Ben Carson, move on to a subject that you would like to discuss, if there is any.


I'm playing the Game exactly how the Game is being allowed to be Played.

You are playing games, that is obvious.

[Cigar]

Just as I thought ... :wink:

[Howey]

Carson was smeared by the abortionists who are shilling for planned parenthood by accusing him of performing fetal tissue research.

Yet he admits he did.

[Chris]

Yet he admits he did.

The $64000 question is, where did he admit it when in the OP he says he didn't.

[Howey]

The admission (http://www.salon.com/2015/08/13/gop_presidential_candidate_ben_carson_performed_re search_on_aborted_fetal_brain_tissue/)


That he specified the 17th week of gestation in his conversation with Kelly is significant, given that in his 1992 study — Colloid Cysts of the Third Ventricle: Immunohistochemical evidence for nonneuropithelial differentiation — the brain and nasal cavity tissues were “obtained from two fetuses aborted at the ninth and 17th week of gestation.”

[Ravens Fan]

The admission (http://www.salon.com/2015/08/13/gop_presidential_candidate_ben_carson_performed_re search_on_aborted_fetal_brain_tissue/)

Your link points to the same study that he claims his only involvement was supplying tumors he had removed from patients.

Got anything to refute what he said?

[Chris]

The admission (http://www.salon.com/2015/08/13/gop_presidential_candidate_ben_carson_performed_re search_on_aborted_fetal_brain_tissue/)

That leads to the study with his name on it that he addresses in the OP:


Hum Pathol. 1992 Jul;23(7):811-6.
Colloid cysts of the third ventricle: immunohistochemical evidence for nonneuroepithelial differentiation.
Tsuchida T1, Hruban RH, Carson BS, Phillips PC.
Author information
Erratum in
Hum Pathol 1992 Nov;23(11):1317.
Abstract
The histogenesis of colloid cysts (CCs) of the third ventricle has been a subject of controversy. We examined, using immunohistochemical techniques, four CCs for the presence of cytokeratins (CKs), glutathione S-transferase isoenzymes (GST-pi, GST-mu), and glial fibrillary acidic protein. Antibodies to both low molecular weight CKs (anti-CK8) and to a mixture of CKs (AE1/AE3) were used. For comparison, normal fetal and adult choroid plexus, ependyma, and nasal mucosa were also examined. The epithelium lining all four CCs showed positive immunostaining for the CKs and GST-pi but not for GST-mu or glial fibrillary acidic protein. Fetal and adult nasal mucosa showed a pattern of immunohistochemical staining almost identical to that of CCs. In contrast, fetal and adult choroid plexus tissue showed positive immunostaining for GST-pi and low molecular weight CKs but not for the CK mixture (AE1/AE3). Fetal and adult ependyma were negative for both CKs and GST-pi. These results suggest that CCs differentiate along nonneural lines distinct from the neuroepithelial differentiation of the choroid plexus and ependyma.
PMID: 1612580 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

@http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1612580

[Chris]

Ravens Fan, you have to admit it doesn't look good. The press and pundits will simply keep pushing his name on a study. You either take his word, in the OP, or theirs. I think it's like PP, regardless their defense now, they're reputation has been seriously tarnished.

[Ravens Fan]

@Ravens Fan (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=908), you have to admit it doesn't look good. The press and pundits will simply keep pushing his name on a study. You either take his word, in the OP, or theirs. I think it's like PP, regardless their defense now, they're reputation has been seriously tarnished.

I do agree that it is his word against theirs. And I have no doubt that they will smear the hell out of him while the sheep just follow along.

It's really not a big deal to me, I just wanted to point out his defense. And so far no one can prove him wrong.

[Howey]

Ravens Fan, you have to admit it doesn't look good. The press and pundits will simply keep pushing his name on a study. You either take his word, in the OP, or theirs. I think it's like PP, regardless their defense now, they're reputation has been seriously tarnished.

I believe he put his name on the study. He also stated the tissue came from an aborted embryo.

I get Mr Carson's concern, but to excuse his actions with semantics is silly. He should stand up and state as a scientist use of fetal tissue is vital (regardless of the source) and that as a physician dedicated to the life of his patients, the science of fetal cell research trumps personal opinion. After all, it's called the Hippocratic Oath, not the Hypocritical Oath.

Added: As it stands now, Carson is responding as a politician, not a physician. That's not good for a man who just yesterday said he wanted to stay out of the political fray.

[Ravens Fan]

I believe he put his name on the study. He also stated the tissue came from an aborted embryo.

I get Mr Carson's concern, but to excuse his actions with semantics is silly. He should stand up and state as a scientist use of fetal tissue is vital (regardless of the source) and that as a physician dedicated to the life of his patients, the science of fetal cell research trumps personal opinion. After all, it's called the Hippocratic Oath, not the Hypocritical Oath.

Added: As it stands now, Carson is responding as a politician, not a physician. That's not good for a man who just yesterday said he wanted to stay out of the political fray.

So you can't refute what Dr. Carson, himself, said in the OP? That's cool.

[Howey]

So you can't refute what Dr. Carson, himself, said in the OP? That's cool.

I thought I did.


I get Mr Carson's concern, but to excuse his actions with semantics is silly. He should stand up and state as a scientist use of fetal tissue is vital (regardless of the source) and that as a physician dedicated to the life of his patients, the science of fetal cell research trumps personal opinion.

[Ravens Fan]

I thought I did.

You accused him of semantics and stated what you think he should do. You did not prove his statement wrong.

I was really hoping you would, I'm here to learn. But it looks like it is his word against the MSM's word.

[Chris]

I do agree that it is his word against theirs. And I have no doubt that they will smear the hell out of him while the sheep just follow along.

It's really not a big deal to me, I just wanted to point out his defense. And so far no one can prove him wrong.


And the smear comes in innuendo, speculation and fallacies like del's appeal to other "sources".

[Chris]

I believe he put his name on the study. He also stated the tissue came from an aborted embryo.

I get Mr Carson's concern, but to excuse his actions with semantics is silly. He should stand up and state as a scientist use of fetal tissue is vital (regardless of the source) and that as a physician dedicated to the life of his patients, the science of fetal cell research trumps personal opinion. After all, it's called the Hippocratic Oath, not the Hypocritical Oath.

Added: As it stands now, Carson is responding as a politician, not a physician. That's not good for a man who just yesterday said he wanted to stay out of the political fray.


So far what you have is his name on the study. He says the tissue he supplied was from tumors from adults. What semantics? Of course, he's a politician now.

[decedent]

Neurosurgeons make good Presidents.

[Ransom]

Another reason I like him.....he scares the sh!t out of the hard left.

[del]

And the smear comes in innuendo, speculation and fallacies like del's appeal to other "sources".


There was no contradiction between this science and Carson's pro-life views, he said. "My primary responsibility in that research was when I operated on people and obtained the tissue," said Carson, who noted that he has not used fetal tissue samples since then. "This has everything to do with how it’s acquired. If you’re killing babies and taking the tissue, that’s a very different thing than taking a dead specimen and keeping a record of it."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/08/13/ben-carson-no-apologies-for-1992-fetal-tissue-research/

[Ravens Fan]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/08/13/ben-carson-no-apologies-for-1992-fetal-tissue-research/

Your link seems to confirm the OP... or at the very least debunks what the media wants you to believe about him.

[Bo-4]

`
He'd make a great Surgeon General.


No thanks

[Chris]

what would you consider to be proof?

i googled it and about a dozen reputable sources said the same thing- he did research on fetal tissue.

personally, i don't see the issue, but i'm not running around accusing pp of selling baby body parts, either.


And the smear comes in innuendo, speculation and fallacies like del's appeal to other "sources".


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/08/13/ben-carson-no-apologies-for-1992-fetal-tissue-research/

http://i.snag.gy/t3GlB.jpg

Now if it only refuted the OP...

[Bo-4]

I'll respond anyway "I" chose to respond, not how "you" chose.

Sorry, it's 2015, not 1915

Shut it with the buzzkill Cig.. what many of these a-holes REALLY want?

A return to 1861 and another race war.

Cool huh

[del]

Your link seems to confirm the OP... or at the very least debunks what the media wants you to believe about him.

if you say so. noting that he hasn't used fetal tissue since then would seem to indicate that he did use fetal tissue in 1992.

i'm sure that's not the case in your opinion.

[Ravens Fan]

Shut it with the buzzkill Cig.. what many of these a-holes REALLY want?

A return to 1861 and another race war.

Cool huh

Yeah... asking him not to destroy a thread = being a racist. That's quite a leap, even for you.

[Chris]

From the OP:


I, nor any of the doctors involved with this study, had anything to do with abortion or what Planned Parenthood has been doing. Research hospitals across the country have microscope slides of all kinds of tissue to compare and contrast. The fetal tissue that was viewed in this study by others was not collected for this study.

I am sickened by the attack that I, after having spent my entire life caring for children, had something to do with aborting a child and harvesting organs. My medical specialty is the human brain and even I am amazed at what it is capable of doing. Please know these attacks are pathetic attempts to blunt our progress.

[Ravens Fan]

if you say so. noting that he hasn't used fetal tissue since then would seem to indicate that he did use fetal tissue in 1992.

i'm sure that's not the case in your opinion.

Did you read your own link? It addresses that for you, Del.

[del]

he used fetal tissue.

he seems to draw some kind of line in the sand about how his was obtained.

the term distinction without a difference comes to mind.

have an nice weekend

[Ravens Fan]

he used fetal tissue.

he seems to draw some kind of line in the sand about how his was obtained.

the term distinction without a difference comes to mind.

have an nice weekend

Still destroys the left's claims about him. Thanks.

[exotix]

Today

Carson defends his research on aborted fetuses

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/08/13/ben-carson-no-apologies-for-1992-fetal-tissue-research/

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/politics/ben-carson-aborted-fetuses-research/index.html

Ben Carson defended the use of fetal tissue for medical research Thursday,after a blog published (https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/08/12/ben-carson-did-research-on-17-week-fetal-tissue/) excerpts of a 1992 paper describing work the neurosurgeon-turned-presidential candidate carried out using aborted fetuses.

In an interview with The Washington Post, Carson called the revelation "desperate," and ignorant of the way medical research was carried out.

"You have to look at the intent," Carson said before beginning a campaign swing through New Hampshire.

"To willfully ignore evidence that you have for some ideological reason is wrong.

If you’re killing babies and taking the tissue, that’s a very different thing than taking a dead specimen and keeping a record of it."



Ben Carson did research on 17 week fetal tissue ~ https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/08/12/ben-carson-did-research-on-17-week-fetal-tissue/

https://drjengunter.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/carson1.jpg

http://1wdojq181if3tdg01yomaof86.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Ben-Carson-BNR-Breakfast2-1000x600.png

[del]

he didn't do any fetal tissue research

it's a media plot

[PolWatch]

He is a doctor looking for cures to medical problems. Doctors use the tissue for research. The entire question would not be an issue if he had not tried to deny that he studied donated tissue for political purposes.

[exotix]

He is a doctor looking for cures to medical problems.
Doctors use the tissue for research.

The entire question would not be an issue if he had not tried to deny that he studied donated tissue for political purposes.
Correct ... Carson went on to say that no medicine, no medical breakthroughs etc. are possible without it.

Politically, he will be behind a govt. shutdown over planned parenthood.

[Peter1469]

Notice: Duplicate threads merged and moved into US Politics.

[Chris]

He is a doctor looking for cures to medical problems. Doctors use the tissue for research. The entire question would not be an issue if he had not tried to deny that he studied donated tissue for political purposes.

In the OP he admits the study was of fetal tissue, what he's denying is that it was collected from aborted babies.

[Ethereal]

I'll respond anyway "I" chose to respond, not how "you" chose.

Sorry, it's 2015, not 1915

When he's not playing the internet tough guy, he's playing the victim.

Make up your mind, guy.

[Ethereal]

$#@! off

if he wants to google it himself, he can.

Chris: Where is your evidence?
Del: :cry:

[Ethereal]

So let me get this correct, you would be one of the first to report Personal Attacks on Forum Members who Post Political Threads ... Correct? :huh:

I'm playing the Game exactly how the Game is being allowed to be Played.

By crying and whining and pretending to be a tough guy?

[Ethereal]

And the smear comes in innuendo, speculation and fallacies like del's appeal to other "sources".

How dare you question del's unnamed sources. His credibility is above reproach.

[Chris]

How dare you question del's unnamed sources. His credibility is above reproach.

Ironically, he returned with a source who backed up the OP. Probably why he doesn't try often.

[Ethereal]

Correct ... Carson went on to say that no medicine, no medical breakthroughs etc. are possible without it.

Politically, he will be behind a govt. shutdown over planned parenthood.

And everyone knows that without planned parenthood facilitating medically-induced abortions, there is no way to obtain fetal tissues for research purposes... :icon_scratch:

[Ethereal]

Ironically, he returned with a source who backed up the OP. Probably why he doesn't try often.

It's much easier to present yourself as oh-so-clever than it is to actually demonstrate it.

[Chris]

It's much easier to present yourself as oh-so-clever than it is to actually demonstrate it.

His clever put downs mask his own issues.

[PolWatch]

Please notice the remark in bold print:

'Carson also has not been shy about his belief that a fetus terminated in the early part of the second trimester is a human being, '

Carson is playing political games with words. The statement above implies that those terminated in the first trimester are not human? Why does he feel compared to say second trimester unless he knows that he has used tissue from the first trimester?

'As a neurosurgeon Dr. Ben Carson knows full well that fetal tissue is essential for medical research. His discipline would have a hard time being were it is today without that kind of work. What is even more egregious than dismissing the multitude of researchers whose work allowed him to become a neurosurgeon is the hypocrisy of actually having done that research himself while spouting off about its supposed worthlessness.'

Fall for his word games if you want to but he has participated in research using fetal tissue and I doubt if he cared where that tissue came from until he decided on a presidential campaign as a repub. Words do have meanings. Do you realize that a woman who has 2+ miscarriages is classed as a habitual aborter?

https://www.yahoo.com/health/ben-carson-conducted-research-on-fetal-tissue-126618364718.html

[hanger4]

Please notice the remark in bold print:

'Carson also has not been shy about his belief that a fetus terminated in the early part of the second trimester is a human being, '

Carson is playing political games with words. The statement above implies that those terminated in the first trimester are not human? Why does he feel compared to say second trimester unless he knows that he has used tissue from the first trimester?

'As a neurosurgeon Dr. Ben Carson knows full well that fetal tissue is essential for medical research. His discipline would have a hard time being were it is today without that kind of work. What is even more egregious than dismissing the multitude of researchers whose work allowed him to become a neurosurgeon is the hypocrisy of actually having done that research himself while spouting off about its supposed worthlessness.'

Fall for his word games if you want to but he has participated in research using fetal tissue and I doubt if he cared where that tissue came from until he decided on a presidential campaign as a repub. Words do have meanings. Do you realize that a woman who has 2+ miscarriages is classed as a habitual aborter?

https://www.yahoo.com/health/ben-carson-conducted-research-on-fetal-tissue-126618364718.html

It only implies exactly what it said. Any assumption is a stretch.

[PolWatch]

In the OP he admits the study was of fetal tissue, what he's denying is that it was collected from aborted babies.

He's playing word games....in 1992 no one would have been interested in where the tissue came from. As I pointed out, until it became a hot-button political issue, miscarriage was also called spontaneous abortion so he would not know (or care). This is something that some would be calling more PC speech.

[Chris]

He's playing word games....in 1992 no one would have been interested in where the tissue came from. As I pointed out, until it became a hot-button political issue, miscarriage was also called spontaneous abortion so he would not know (or care). This is something that some would be calling more PC speech.

Kind of hard to nail down playing word games. To me that's when someone argues about words rather than with them. It's importance back then would change the facts. And remember, he's rebutting outrage on the left.

[PolWatch]

No, he's defending his anti-choice position as a repub candidate. Believe what you want....fetal tissue for research comes from medical supply houses. People who need it for research don't know or care where it came from....unless they want to be politically correct.

I think less of the man for this tap dancing.

[exotix]

And everyone knows that without planned parenthood facilitating medically-induced abortions, there is no way to obtain fetal tissues for research purposes... :icon_scratch:
I'm sure the Bible can straighten this one out.

[Peter1469]

I'm sure the Bible can straighten this one out.


lol

Did you experience pain when you typed that word out? :shocked: