Forced “Charity” Is Force, Not Charity

[Chris]

Interviewer asks people do you give to charity--yes, is it a good idea--yes, should you be forced to--no, the government forces, is that OK--cognitive dissonance.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82NPMM85B6o

[AeonPax]

`
You have not proved "cognitive dissonance". Many people, including me, see taxes and charity different from you. Biblically, taxes are like the give unto Caesar thing and charity extends from the heart for a greater good. Pragmatically, taxes are just a way of life, hardly charity as you are legally bound to pay taxes where there is no law forcing charity.

[Common Sense]

Yeah yeah, I know...don't attack the source...

But for fucks sake...it's straight from the mouth of Charles Koch.

It's propaganda passing itself as "education".

[Chris]

`
You have not proved "cognitive dissonance". Many people, including me, see taxes and charity different from you. Biblically, taxes are like the give unto Caesar thing and charity extends from the heart for a greater good. Pragmatically, taxes are just a way of life, hardly charity as you are legally bound to pay taxes where there is no law forcing charity.

Proved? No one ever proves anything on the Internet. That's weird. It was, omg, my opinion, my observation. I say the same of your explanation, the cognitive dissonance is deafening. You see taxes and charity as the same but I doubt you would want me to force you to give to my charity.

[Chris]

Yeah yeah, I know...don't attack the source...

But for fucks sake...it's straight from the mouth of Charles Koch.

It's propaganda passing itself as "education".


Yes, dismissed as non-contributory.

[Cigar]

`
You have not proved "cognitive dissonance". Many people, including me, see taxes and charity different from you. Biblically, taxes are like the give unto Caesar thing and charity extends from the heart for a greater good. Pragmatically, taxes are just a way of life, hardly charity as you are legally bound to pay taxes where there is no law forcing charity.

People get up every morning and get in their Automobiles every day a just assume they were entitled to Heat and Air, Electricity and Clean Water, then a safe journey through America Roads to the destination of their "choice".

:rollseyes:

[Common Sense]

Yes, dismissed as non-contributory.

Oh I contributed. In the sense that I've exposed this propaganda for what it is.

Unfortunately you don't get to decide what my contribution is.

[del]

`
You have not proved "cognitive dissonance". Many people, including me, see taxes and charity different from you. Biblically, taxes are like the give unto Caesar thing and charity extends from the heart for a greater good. Pragmatically, taxes are just a way of life, hardly charity as you are legally bound to pay taxes where there is no law forcing charity.


Proved? No one ever proves anything on the Internet. That's weird. It was, omg, my opinion, my observation. I say the same of your explanation, the cognitive dissonance is deafening. You see taxes and charity as the same but I doubt you would want me to force you to give to my charity.

she just said that taxes and charity were different.

do you actually read the words people post before you launch into your lectures?

:biglaugh:

[AeonPax]

Proved? No one ever proves anything on the Internet. That's weird. It was, omg, my opinion, my observation. I say the same of your explanation, the cognitive dissonance is deafening. You see taxes and charity as the same but I doubt you would want me to force you to give to my charity.
`
If it's your opinion, have it. However, such a thing as paying taxes and giving (or not giving) to charity is hardly factual evidence of a bona fide case of cognitive dissonance such as; Odi et amo.

[Chris]

she just said that taxes and charity were different.

do you actually read the words people post before you launch into your lectures?

:biglaugh:

OK, misread the first part of her statement, but the cognitive dissonance is the same as sodme of the people interviewed in the video.

[Chris]

`
If it's your opinion, have it. However, such a thing as paying taxes and giving (or not giving) to charity is hardly factual evidence of a bona fide case of cognitive dissonance such as; Odi et amo.

Yet both are intended for the good of society, are they not? So they are the same. Yet one is chosen, the other forced. And we naturally think giving to others ought to be by choice or the intent is lost. That's the cognitive dissonance.

[AeonPax]

she just said that taxes and charity were different.do you actually read the words people post before you launch into your lectures?
`
Do you actually think I care? Of course they are different BUT are not an example of cognitive dissonance...DUH.

[del]

OK, misread the first part of her statement, but the cognitive dissonance is the same as sodme of the people interviewed in the video.

the cognitive dissonance on display here is yours, ace.

[del]

`
Do you actually think I care? Of course they are different BUT are not an example of cognitive dissonance...DUH.

that's what i said, skippy

duh

[Chris]

`
Do you actually think I care? Of course they are different BUT are not an example of cognitive dissonance...DUH.

Yes, they are different in that one is given by choice and the other by force. But the intent of both is to contribute to the good of society. Thus, again, the cognitive dissonance. And actually the cognitive dissonance is in the self-contradictions people go through to justify both.

[Chris]

that's what i said, skippy

duh
AeonPax, meet del. He thinks everyone is stupid, sees stupid everywhere he looks. Makes you wonder.

[AeonPax]

Yet both are intended for the good of society, are they not? So they are the same. Yet one is chosen, the other forced. And we naturally think giving to others ought to be by choice or the intent is lost. That's the cognitive dissonance.
`
Cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values; it's a psychological state of being. I just did not see that in the video. At the end, the good professor states (in so many words) there is an ambiguity about taxes and charity, which came to no conclusion other than; "What do you think?"

[midcan5]

Why do people find it necessary to offer apologetics for selfishness? It is the oddest modern day sentiment, one would think Ayn Rand were a catchable brain disorder.

While a bit OT I am finishing Vollmann's 'Poor People' and I recommend it for the apologists for greed. A read to make you think.

“This is what the Lord says: ‘Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches, but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight,’ declares the Lord.” Jeremiah 9:23-24

"This disposition to admire, and almost to worship , the rich and powerful, and to despise, or, at least neglect persons of poor and mean conditions...is...the great and most universal cause of the corruption of our moral sentiments." Adam Smith

[Chris]

`
Cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values; it's a psychological state of being. I just did not see that in the video. At the end, the good professor states (in so many words) there is an ambiguity about taxes and charity, which came to no conclusion other than; "What do you think?"

Exactly. In the video is a guy who defines charity along lines of contributing to the greater good and as such should not be forced, he then defines taxation along the same lines, but says, no, it's OK to be forced, no, wait, I just said it's no, so while I'm inclined to say force is OK I have to agree with my earlier answer that it's not. I'm paraphrasing but you can watch the video. What the guy is going through, and recognizes it, is cognitive dissonance.


At the end, the good professor states (in so many words) there is an ambiguity about taxes and charity, which came to no conclusion other than; "What do you think?"

At the end he points out the cognitive dissonance. People say it's wrong for others to force you to contribute to causes they want you to but, cognitive dissonance, rationalize government forcing it. Yes, he asks, what do you think. I think cognitive dissonance. Apparently you disagree about the phrase.

[Chris]

Why do people find it necessary to offer apologetics for selfishness? It is the oddest modern day sentiment, one would think Ayn Rand were a catchable brain disorder.

While a bit OT I am finishing Vollmann's 'Poor People' and I recommend it for the apologists for greed. A read to make you think.

“This is what the Lord says: ‘Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches, but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight,’ declares the Lord.” Jeremiah 9:23-24

"This disposition to admire, and almost to worship , the rich and powerful, and to despise, or, at least neglect persons of poor and mean conditions...is...the great and most universal cause of the corruption of our moral sentiments." Adam Smith


W're not discussing selfishness, we're discussing charity. Good Lord.

[AeonPax]

Exactly. In the video is a guy who defines charity along lines of contributing to the greater good and as such should not be forced, he then defines taxation along the same lines, but says, no, it's OK to be forced, no, wait, I just said it's no, so while I'm inclined to say force is OK I have to agree with my earlier answer that it's not. I'm paraphrasing but you can watch the video. What the guy is going through, and recognizes it, is cognitive dissonance. At the end he points out the cognitive dissonance. People say it's wrong for others to force you to contribute to causes they want you to but, cognitive dissonance, rationalize government forcing it. Yes, he asks, what do you think. I think cognitive dissonance. Apparently you disagree about the phrase.
`
I didn't hear the words "cognitive dissonance". Those are your words and as neither you nor I are qualified to make a diagnosis on such a thing, I accept it as your opinion. The entire point of the video is to invite further discussion on Taxes v. Charity, not to draw a definitive researched conclusion.

[Ethereal]

`
You have not proved "cognitive dissonance". Many people, including me, see taxes and charity different from you. Biblically, taxes are like the give unto Caesar thing and charity extends from the heart for a greater good. Pragmatically, taxes are just a way of life, hardly charity as you are legally bound to pay taxes where there is no law forcing charity.

Taxation is just a euphemism for institutional theft and extortion.

The fact is that the government, like a highwayman, says to a man: Your money, or your life. And many, if not most, taxes are paid under the compulsion of that threat.

The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the road side, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful.

The highwayman takes solely upon himself the responsibility, danger, and crime of his own act. He does not pretend that he has any rightful claim to your money, or that he intends to use it for your own benefit. He does not pretend to be anything but a robber. He has not acquired impudence enough to profess to be merely a “protector,” and that he takes men’s money against their will, merely to enable him to “protect” those infatuated travellers, who feel perfectly able to protect themselves, or do not appreciate his peculiar system of protection. He is too sensible a man to make such professions as these. Furthermore, having taken your money, he leaves you, as you wish him to do. He does not persist in following you on the road, against your will; assuming to be your rightful “sovereign,” on account of the “protection” he affords you. He does not keep “protecting” you, by commanding you to bow down and serve him; by requiring you to do this, and forbidding you to do that; by robbing you of more money as often as he finds it for his interest or pleasure to do so; and by branding you as a rebel, a traitor, and an enemy to your country, and shooting you down without mercy, if you dispute his authority, or resist his demands. He is too much of a gentleman to be guilty of such impostures, and insults, and villanies as these. In short, he does not, in addition to robbing you, attempt to make you either his dupe or his slave.

:grin:

[Ethereal]

People get up every morning and get in their Automobiles every day a just assume they were entitled to Heat and Air, Electricity and Clean Water, then a safe journey through America Roads to the destination of their "choice".

:rollseyes:

Yea, because roads are impossible to build without taxes or governments. Nobody could figure out how to do it otherwise.

[Chris]

`
I didn't hear the words "cognitive dissonance". Those are your words and as neither you nor I are qualified to make a diagnosis on such a thing, I accept it as your opinion. The entire point of the video is to invite further discussion on Taxes v. Charity, not to draw a definitive researched conclusion.

Why yes those are my words. I derive it from the cognitive dissonance displayed by the interviewees in the video.

Then discuss charity and taxes.

[Ethereal]

Why do people find it necessary to offer apologetics for selfishness?

Not wanting to be robbed by politicians is selfish? Since when?

[AeonPax]

Taxation is just a euphemism for institutional theft and extortion. The fact is that the government, like a highwayman, says to a man: Your money, or your life. And many, if not most, taxes are paid under the compulsion of that threat.The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the road side, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful.The highwayman takes solely upon himself the responsibility, danger, and crime of his own act. He does not pretend that he has any rightful claim to your money, or that he intends to use it for your own benefit. He does not pretend to be anything but a robber. He has not acquired impudence enough to profess to be merely a “protector,” and that he takes men’s money against their will, merely to enable him to “protect” those infatuated travellers, who feel perfectly able to protect themselves, or do not appreciate his peculiar system of protection. He is too sensible a man to make such professions as these. Furthermore, having taken your money, he leaves you, as you wish him to do. He does not persist in following you on the road, against your will; assuming to be your rightful “sovereign,” on account of the “protection” he affords you. He does not keep “protecting” you, by commanding you to bow down and serve him; by requiring you to do this, and forbidding you to do that; by robbing you of more money as often as he finds it for his interest or pleasure to do so; and by branding you as a rebel, a traitor, and an enemy to your country, and shooting you down without mercy, if you dispute his authority, or resist his demands. He is too much of a gentleman to be guilty of such impostures, and insults, and villanies as these. In short, he does not, in addition to robbing you, attempt to make you either his dupe or his slave.
`
I'm not going to dispute your beliefs on taxes other than say I try to pay as less as I legally can. I accept it as a necessary evil.

[Chris]

I agree on the evil part, taxation being legalized theft and all. Necessary?

"If by the necessity of living we acquiesce to the force of law, if by long custom we lose sight of the immorality, has the principle been obliterated? Robbery is robbery, and no amount of words can make it anything else." ~Frank Chodorov, Taxation Is Robbery (https://mises.org/library/taxation-robbery)

[Bob]

`
You have not proved "cognitive dissonance". Many people, including me, see taxes and charity different from you. Biblically, taxes are like the give unto Caesar thing and charity extends from the heart for a greater good. Pragmatically, taxes are just a way of life, hardly charity as you are legally bound to pay taxes where there is no law forcing charity.

What would you think if it was proven to you that the law in the constitution concerning income taxes was never ratified as it is supposed to be per the constitution?

http://www.freedomabovefortune.com/

This site belongs to a former IRS enforcement officer that did research to find out if it was ratified. Here he explains his findings.

[AeonPax]

What would you think if it was proven to you that the law in the constitution concerning income taxes was never ratified as it is supposed to be per the constitution?http://www.freedomabovefortune.com/ This site belongs to a former IRS enforcement officer that did research to find out if it was ratified. Here he explains his findings.
`
Been there, read about it, heard it, watched it. I'm not into that stuff.

[Bob]

`
Been there, read about it, heard it, watched it. I'm not into that stuff.

If you get interested in "illegal laws" let us all know.