PDA

View Full Version : How is this an acceptable approach to politics?



Green Arrow
09-11-2015, 08:57 AM
This was the response I got from Howey in a thread about the Iran Nuclear Deal, where I said that I was withholding judgment until I could read the entirety of the deal:


What's with normal (or not so normal) citizens demanding to see and read every treaty, bill or executive order out there? Isn't that what we elect our representatives for?


May I respect you run for office if you want to read everything?

Does anybody else seriously agree with this approach to politics? Blissful ignorance and reliance on politicians with phat paychecks from corporate bank accounts?

This is literally the first time I've encountered such a mindset.

donttread
09-11-2015, 09:04 AM
This was the response I got from @Howey (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=387) in a thread about the Iran Nuclear Deal, where I said that I was withholding judgment until I could read the entirety of the deal:



Does anybody else seriously agree with this approach to politics? Blissful ignorance and reliance on politicians with phat paychecks from corporate bank accounts?

This is literally the first time I've encountered such a mindset.

Howey, you sound like a subject, not a citizen. But don't worry the lawmakers don't read the bills either

Mister D
09-11-2015, 09:05 AM
Arrow, Howey has few principles. If the deal in question was a GOP creation he would agree with you.

Mark III
09-11-2015, 09:06 AM
Most Americans are not going to read a 159 page document.

People don't read the fine print or details on documents that involve their own financial well being, and you think they will read a 159 page treaty ? And even if they read it, most people would not understand the technical aspects.

There are any number of good summaries of the agreement available to the public.

exotix
09-11-2015, 09:09 AM
I'm surprised the usual GOP wackos aren't shutting down the govt. over the Iran Deal.

Cigar
09-11-2015, 09:10 AM
:grin: Is anyone here have better credentials than this guy? Raise your had if you do.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Moniz_official_portrait_standing.jpg


Also ...

29 U.S. Scientists Praise Iran Nuclear Deal in Letter to Obama


Twenty-nine of the nation’s top scientists — including Nobel laureates, veteran makers of nuclear arms and former White House science advisers — wrote to President Obama (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/barack_obama/index.html?inline=nyt-per) on Saturday to praise the Iran (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/iran/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) deal, calling it innovative and stringent.


The letter, from some of the world’s most knowledgeable experts in the fields of nuclear weapons (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/science/topics/atomic_weapons/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) and arms control, arrives as Mr. Obama is lobbying Congress, the American public and the nation’s allies to support the agreement (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/07/15/world/middleeast/iran-deal-qa.html).


The two-page letter (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/08/08/world/document-iranletteraug2015.html) may give the White House arguments a boost after the blow Mr. Obama suffered on Thursday when Senator Chuck Schumer (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/charles_e_schumer/index.html?inline=nyt-per) of New York, a Democrat and among the most influential Jewish voices in Congress, announced he would oppose the deal (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/07/us/politics/schumer-says-he-will-oppose-iran-nuclear-deal.html), which calls for Iran (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/iran/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) to curb its nuclear program (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/iran/nuclear_program/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) and allow inspections in return for an end to international oil and financial sanctions.


The first signature on the letter is from Richard L. Garwin, a physicist who helped design the world’s first hydrogen bomb and has long advised Washington on nuclear weapons (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/science/topics/atomic_weapons/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) and arms control. He is among the last living physicists who helped usher in the nuclear age.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/world/29-us-scientists-praise-iran-nuclear-deal-in-letter-to-obama.html

Cigar
09-11-2015, 09:11 AM
I'm surprised the usual GOP wackos aren't shutting down the govt. over the Iran Deal.

It's coming ... :laugh:

Subdermal
09-11-2015, 09:16 AM
This was the response I got from @Howey (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=387) in a thread about the Iran Nuclear Deal, where I said that I was withholding judgment until I could read the entirety of the deal:



Does anybody else seriously agree with this approach to politics? Blissful ignorance and reliance on politicians with phat paychecks from corporate bank accounts?

This is literally the first time I've encountered such a mindset.

It is?

No it isn't. You encounter it every time you interchange with an uninformed partisan.

Mac-7
09-11-2015, 09:17 AM
29 U.S. Scientists Praise Iran Nuclear Deal in Letter to Obama


Twenty-nine of the nation’s top scientists — including Nobel laureates, veteran makers of nuclear arms and former White House science advisers — wrote to President Obama (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/barack_obama/index.html?inline=nyt-per) on Saturday to praise the Iran (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/iran/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) deal, calling it innovative and stringent.


The letter, from some of the world’s most knowledgeable experts in the fields of nuclear weapons (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/science/topics/atomic_weapons/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) and arms control, arrives as Mr. Obama is lobbying Congress, the American public and the nation’s allies to support the agreement (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/07/15/world/middleeast/iran-deal-qa.html).


The two-page letter (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/08/08/world/document-iranletteraug2015.html) may give the White House arguments a boost after the blow Mr. Obama suffered on Thursday when Senator Chuck Schumer (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/charles_e_schumer/index.html?inline=nyt-per) of New York, a Democrat and among the most influential Jewish voices in Congress, announced he would oppose the deal (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/07/us/politics/schumer-says-he-will-oppose-iran-nuclear-deal.html), which calls for Iran (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/iran/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) to curb its nuclear program (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/iran/nuclear_program/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) and allow inspections in return for an end to international oil and financial sanctions.


The first signature on the letter is from Richard L. Garwin, a physicist who helped design the world’s first hydrogen bomb and has long advised Washington on nuclear weapons (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/science/topics/atomic_weapons/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) and arms control. He is among the last living physicists who helped usher in the nuclear age.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/world/29-us-scientists-praise-iran-nuclear-deal-in-letter-to-obama.html


does this mean there are only 29 scientists left in America who speak English and they all goose step behind the fuhrer?

Thats disturbing.

Subdermal
09-11-2015, 09:18 AM
Dude's hairdo alone raises legit questions about his judgement. Pretty funny that he calls a deal that allows Iran to regulate their own sites - and get 30 days notice before inspections - stringent.

:biglaugh:

Peter1469
09-11-2015, 09:19 AM
Americans don't deserve a vote for anything. They are MAC stupid.

AeonPax
09-11-2015, 09:20 AM
`
`
The only way to keep your elected official honest is to have watchdog groups hound his/her ass 24/7. Help keep the fires going by getting media investigative groups to check into anything that does not smell right.

Mark III
09-11-2015, 09:21 AM
Dude's hairdo alone raises legit questions about his judgement. Pretty funny that he calls a deal that allows Iran to regulate their own sites - and get 30 days notice before inspections - stringent.

:biglaugh:

Brilliant scientists sometimes don't care much about their hair.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=JN.J7WPncfAtU05RUJEMIs2KQ&pid=15.1

Subdermal
09-11-2015, 09:24 AM
Brilliant scientists sometimes don't care much about their hair.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=JN.J7WPncfAtU05RUJEMIs2KQ&pid=15.1

I'm assuming that the blank box is Einstein. Yep. There he is.

Subdermal
09-11-2015, 09:30 AM
`
`
The only way to keep your elected official honest is to have watchdog groups hound his/her ass 24/7. Help keep the fires going by getting media investigative groups to check into anything that does not smell right.

Yeah, we thought that about the Government Accountability Board in Wisconsin. Didn't work out so well.

Cigar
09-11-2015, 09:32 AM
does this mean there are only 29 scientists left in America who speak English and they all goose step behind the fuhrer?

Thats disturbing.

Ok ... where is your list? :grin:

Chris
09-11-2015, 09:57 AM
Didn't Obama promise transparency?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU0m6Rxm9vU

Tahuyaman
09-11-2015, 10:40 AM
This was the response I got from @Howey (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=387) in a thread about the Iran Nuclear Deal, where I said that I was withholding judgment until I could read the entirety of the deal:


Howey What's with normal (or not so normal) citizens demanding to see and read every treaty, bill or executive order out there? Isn't that what we elect our representatives for?

May I respect you run for office if you want to read everything?


Does anybody else seriously agree with this approach to politics? Blissful ignorance and reliance on politicians with phat paychecks from corporate bank accounts?

This is literally the first time I've encountered such a mindset.

I can't agree with Howey on this. Of course, I rarely agree with him on anything

Tahuyaman
09-11-2015, 10:43 AM
I'm surprised the usual GOP wackos aren't shutting down the govt. over the Iran Deal.


I cant, but I can see the Democrats shutting it down and blaming the Republicans. They do that because they know the media will carry their water when they do.

Cigar
09-11-2015, 10:44 AM
I cant, but I can see the Democrats shutting it down and blaming the Republicans. They do that because they know the media will carry their water when they do.

:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

Howey
09-11-2015, 10:51 AM
This was the response I got from Howey in a thread about the Iran Nuclear Deal, where I said that I was withholding judgment until I could read the entirety of the deal:



Does anybody else seriously agree with this approach to politics? Blissful ignorance and reliance on politicians with phat paychecks from corporate bank accounts?

This is literally the first time I've encountered such a mindset.




Howey, you sound like a subject, not a citizen. But don't worry the lawmakers don't read the bills either


Arrow, Howey has few principles. If the deal in question was a GOP creation he would agree with you.

Fuck you, you, and you!

I'm sick and tired of a small group of posters on this forum attacking every word I type without reading it.

ADMIN?

This is what I told you.

For a group of people who throw out the word "dishonest" as much as Chris, Mister D, and others purposely misrepresenting what I say is trolling, harassment, and dishonest.

Look Green Arrow. I'm far from blissfully ignorant of our government. The difference between me and your bucket carrying whining Libertarian buddies is I respect and trust the principles of our nation.

Get over yourselves. None of you even come close to my intelligence in understanding our country, what ails it and what helps it.

And before the smarmy snarky Libertarians attack again, remember its you fools who are blissfully ignorant; thinking you can round up less than a million people, overthrow our government and make your nice little Libertarian dream world of blissful ignorance.

I know you don't like me.

ADMIN Its time to stop these attacks.

Howey
09-11-2015, 10:55 AM
This was the response I got from Howey in a thread about the Iran Nuclear Deal, where I said that I was withholding judgment until I could read the entirety of the deal:



Does anybody else seriously agree with this approach to politics? Blissful ignorance and reliance on politicians with phat paychecks from corporate bank accounts?

This is literally the first time I've encountered such a mindset.


Howey, you sound like a subject, not a citizen. But don't worry the lawmakers don't read the bills either


I can't agree with Howey on this. Of course, I rarely agree with him on anything

It's incredibly ignorant to think that those who feel we need change in our government refuse to become proactive, run for office, and change it.

You'd rather burn down Washington, overthrow the government and create Randworld.

You people are no more Americans than those who attacked this country 14 years ago today.

Cigar
09-11-2015, 10:58 AM
I cant, but I can see the Democrats shutting it down and blaming the Republicans. They do that because they know the media will carry their water when they do.

The Old "They Made Me Do It" Defense :laugh:

http://www.laprogressive.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/ted-cruz-350.gif

Howey
09-11-2015, 11:00 AM
This was the response I got from Howey in a thread about the Iran Nuclear Deal, where I said that I was withholding judgment until I could read the entirety of the deal:



Does anybody else seriously agree with this approach to politics? Blissful ignorance and reliance on politicians with phat paychecks from corporate bank accounts?

This is literally the first time I've encountered such a mindset.


Howey, you sound like a subject, not a citizen. But don't worry the lawmakers don't read the bills either


Most Americans are not going to read a 159 page document.

People don't read the fine print or details on documents that involve their own financial well being, and you think they will read a 159 page treaty ? And even if they read it, most people would not understand the technical aspects.

There are any number of good summaries of the agreement available to the public.

Watch yourself. When I get banned they'll start attacking you and whatukno more and more.

The link to my forum is on my homepage. That's where all the real Americans who the trolls have run off from here post nowadays.

Feel free to join us. Oh, and we don't attack others who don't share our views, nor troll them. Above all, I allow an open discussion of what's right or wrong with the forum, without bannining anyone who questions authority. And we don't have secret hidden forums and special groups to entice others to troll members they don't like.

Tahuyaman
09-11-2015, 11:01 AM
It's incredibly ignorant to think that those who feel we need change in our government refuse to become proactive, run for office, and change it.

You'd rather burn down Washington, overthrow the government and create Randworld.

You people are no more Americans than those who attacked this country 14 years ago today.

Where do you guys come up with that crap?

I gues the further left one wanders, the more they trust government. The more they trust government, the more they think it's fine to remain uninformed.

Why do liberals think that demanding government to be open and honest is advocating "overthrowing the government" and " burning down Washington"? Is that because they have no valid counter argument, so they go straight to the mindless rhetoric?

nic34
09-11-2015, 11:08 AM
This was the response I got from @Howey (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=387) in a thread about the Iran Nuclear Deal, where I said that I was withholding judgment until I could read the entirety of the deal:



Does anybody else seriously agree with this approach to politics? Blissful ignorance and reliance on politicians with phat paychecks from corporate bank accounts?

This is literally the first time I've encountered such a mindset.


Seriously, GA, who doesn't derive their opinions from the words of others? Paul, Adams, Benoist, Hayek, Jefferson, Washington, Lincoln


Anyone here willing to say they don't ever quote these people?


What do you think a "representative" does?


Myself, I'm very careful about those I vote for.

Howey
09-11-2015, 11:10 AM
This was the response I got from Howey in a thread about the Iran Nuclear Deal, where I said that I was withholding judgment until I could read the entirety of the deal:



Does anybody else seriously agree with this approach to politics? Blissful ignorance and reliance on politicians with phat paychecks from corporate bank accounts?

This is literally the first time I've encountered such a mindset.


Howey, you sound like a subject, not a citizen. But don't worry the lawmakers don't read the bills either


Seriously, GA, who doesn't derive their opinions from the words of others? Paul, Adams, Benoist, Hayek, Jefferson, Washington, Lincoln


Anyone here willing to say they don't ever quote these people?


What do you think a "representative" does?


Myself, I'm very careful about those I vote for.

So am I. And if I'm unhappy I'll work to vote them out. Not burn down the country.

Chris
09-11-2015, 11:16 AM
Seriously, GA, who doesn't derive their opinions from the words of others? Paul, Adams, Benoist, Hayek, Jefferson, Washington, Lincoln


Anyone here willing to say they don't ever quote these people?


What do you think a "representative" does?


Myself, I'm very careful about those I vote for.



Not real sure what being influenced by others has to do with transparency in government and wanting to make informed decisons.

Tahuyaman
09-11-2015, 11:24 AM
Not real sure what being influenced by others has to do with transparency in government and wanting to make informed decisons.

maybe he can clear that up?

Mark III
09-11-2015, 11:33 AM
Watch yourself.

When I get banned they'll start attacking you and @whatukno (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1722) more and more.

The link to my forum is on my homepage. That's where all the real Americans who the trolls have run off from here post nowadays.

Feel free to join us. Oh, and we don't attack others who don't share our views, nor troll them. Above all, I allow an open discussion of what's right or wrong with the forum, without bannining anyone who questions authority. And we don't have secret hidden forums and special groups to entice others to troll members they don't like.

Like I give a fuck. Whether I post a lot here or not will not be determined by the lame attacks of these amateurs. It is more whether I want to spend time picking through all the idiocy that is in full and total bloom on this forum. I don't think I do, but I am here , a little, at the moment.

There are far far far too many ineffective and unfunny one liners on these pages. It is a weight on this group that seems insurmountable at the moment.

Mister D
09-11-2015, 11:34 AM
Like I give a $#@!. Whether I post a lot here or not will not be determined by the lame attacks of these amateurs. It is more whether I want to spend time picking through all the idiocy that is in full and total bloom on this forum. I don't think I do, but I am here , a little, at the moment.

There are far far far too many ineffective and unfunny one liners on these pages. It is a weight on this group that seems insurmountable at the moment.

You still here, Mark? lol

Chris
09-11-2015, 11:36 AM
Like I give a fuck. Whether I post a lot here or not will not be determined by the lame attacks of these amateurs. It is more whether I want to spend time picking through all the idiocy that is in full and total bloom on this forum. I don't think I do, but I am here , a little, at the moment.

There are far far far too many ineffective and unfunny one liners on these pages. It is a weight on this group that seems insurmountable at the moment.



Your not giving a fuck is belied by your caring to tell everyone.

nic34
09-11-2015, 11:38 AM
maybe he can clear that up?

Do you need to read every bill your congressperson votes on, or do you simply read the summary and monitor their votes?

Do you do your own medical diagnoses too?

Tahuyaman
09-11-2015, 11:51 AM
Do you need to read every bill your congressperson votes on,

I should be able to read all of them if I want to. What's your problem with public disclosure?

Tahuyaman
09-11-2015, 11:53 AM
Do you do your own medical diagnoses too?

I don't need a doctor to tell me when I have the flu. I didn't need a doctor to tell me I had a broken leg when I had a skiing accident.

I don't need a doctor to tell me everything.

nic34
09-11-2015, 11:54 AM
I should be able to read all of them if I want to. What's your problem with public disclosure?
Sure, we all know you don't have a life....

Mark III
09-11-2015, 11:55 AM
Your not giving a $#@! is belied by your caring to tell everyone.

I was responding to some who addressed me personally. If you don't like it, lump it. I have seen many such forums as this . For constant dysfunctionality, this one is right up there. You must all be so proud.

Chris
09-11-2015, 11:55 AM
I should be able to read all of them if I want to. What's your problem with public disclosure?

Agree. While most prefer rational ignorance, the government and its policies ought to be an open book to those who desire it.

nic34
09-11-2015, 11:57 AM
I don't need a doctor to tell me when I have the flu. I didn't need a doctor to tell me I had a broken leg when I had a skiing accident.

I don't need a doctor to tell me everything.

You don't need one to tell you you have cancer either.

Tahuyaman
09-11-2015, 12:01 PM
Sure, we all know you don't have a life....


What's your problem with public disclosure? Shouldn't I be able to read what they are voting on if I choose to do so? Should I not be allowed to decide what I think is important and gain information if I so choose?

Do we need to allow them to pass legislation in order to find out what's in it.

Tahuyaman
09-11-2015, 12:05 PM
Agree. While most prefer rational ignorance, the government and its policies ought to be an open book to those who desire it.

I don't know why anyone would have a problem with that. I can see government officials having a problem with it though. Especially when they think they have something to hide.

The Xl
09-11-2015, 12:09 PM
It's a pretty bad idea to trust openly corrupt politicians blindly.

Crepitus
09-11-2015, 12:20 PM
I cant, but I can see the Democrats shutting it down and blaming the Republicans. They do that because they know the media will carry their water when they do.
LOL!

Damn man, you're better comic relief than most of the pundits!

Chris
09-11-2015, 12:21 PM
http://i.snag.gy/iDj9t.jpg

Tahuyaman
09-11-2015, 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by Tahuyaman

I cant, but I can see the Democrats shutting it down and blaming the Republicans. They do that because they know the media will carry their water when they do.





LOL!

Damn man, you're better comic relief than most of the pundits!

Democrats feel comfortable doing that because just as they can rely on the media to carry their water, they can rely on about 37 to 40% of the uniformed population to buy it.

Crepitus
09-11-2015, 12:35 PM
.






Democrats feel comfortable doing that because just as they can rely on the media to carry their water, they can rely on about 37 to 40% of the uniformed population to buy it.:rofl::rofl:

Stop...Can't...Breath.....LMAO

Green Arrow
09-11-2015, 01:05 PM
Fuck you, you, and you!I'm sick and tired of a small group of posters on this forum attacking every word I type without reading it. @ADMIN (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1)?This is what I told you.For a group of people who throw out the word "dishonest" as much as @Chris (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=128), @Mister D (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=4), and others purposely misrepresenting what I say is trolling, harassment, and dishonest.Look @Green Arrow (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=868). I'm far from blissfully ignorant of our government. The difference between me and your bucket carrying whining Libertarian buddies is I respect and trust the principles of our nation. Get over yourselves. None of you even come close to my intelligence in understanding our country, what ails it and what helps it.And before the smarmy snarky Libertarians attack again, remember its you fools who are blissfully ignorant; thinking you can round up less than a million people, overthrow our government and make your nice little Libertarian dream world of blissful ignorance.I know you don't like me. @ADMIN (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1) Its time to stop these attacks.Seriously, Howey? You want to talk about attacks? How about you and TrueBlue calling me a liar about my own sexuality just because I dared to question your POV? I was being respectful to you in that discussion, there was no call for what you did. Then, like a coward, you refused to even address the issue when I brought it up.

Get your own house in order before you complain about my wallpaper.

Peter1469
09-11-2015, 01:51 PM
Yawn....

nic34
09-11-2015, 01:51 PM
Agree. While most prefer rational ignorance, the government and its policies ought to be an open book to those who desire it.

Agree. Not my point tho, no one with a life reads everything, not mortgages, not congressional bills, and not treaties. We rely on representatives we choose for much of the technical work.

Chris
09-11-2015, 01:56 PM
Agree. Not my point tho, no one with a life reads everything, not mortgages, not congressional bills, and not treaties. We rely on representatives we choose for much of the technical work.

OK. Agree, your point is what's called rational ignorance, the value of informing ourselves politically is, fr many, less than other things in life we value.

Tahuyaman
09-11-2015, 02:22 PM
:rofl::rofl:

Stop...Can't...Breath.....LMAO

Like they say, all good humor is based on the truth.

Redrose
09-11-2015, 02:42 PM
:grin: Is anyone here have better credentials than this guy? Raise your had if you do.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Moniz_official_portrait_standing.jpg


Also ...

29 U.S. Scientists Praise Iran Nuclear Deal in Letter to Obama


Twenty-nine of the nation’s top scientists — including Nobel laureates, veteran makers of nuclear arms and former White House science advisers — wrote to President Obama (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/barack_obama/index.html?inline=nyt-per) on Saturday to praise the Iran (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/iran/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) deal, calling it innovative and stringent.


The letter, from some of the world’s most knowledgeable experts in the fields of nuclear weapons (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/science/topics/atomic_weapons/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) and arms control, arrives as Mr. Obama is lobbying Congress, the American public and the nation’s allies to support the agreement (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/07/15/world/middleeast/iran-deal-qa.html).


The two-page letter (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/08/08/world/document-iranletteraug2015.html) may give the White House arguments a boost after the blow Mr. Obama suffered on Thursday when Senator Chuck Schumer (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/charles_e_schumer/index.html?inline=nyt-per) of New York, a Democrat and among the most influential Jewish voices in Congress, announced he would oppose the deal (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/07/us/politics/schumer-says-he-will-oppose-iran-nuclear-deal.html), which calls for Iran (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/iran/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) to curb its nuclear program (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/iran/nuclear_program/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) and allow inspections in return for an end to international oil and financial sanctions.


The first signature on the letter is from Richard L. Garwin, a physicist who helped design the world’s first hydrogen bomb and has long advised Washington on nuclear weapons (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/science/topics/atomic_weapons/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) and arms control. He is among the last living physicists who helped usher in the nuclear age.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/world/29-us-scientists-praise-iran-nuclear-deal-in-letter-to-obama.html


Isn't that Elizabeth Warren without make-up?

whatukno
09-11-2015, 03:24 PM
Watch yourself. When I get banned they'll start attacking you and @whatukno (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1722) more and more.

The link to my forum is on my homepage. That's where all the real Americans who the trolls have run off from here post nowadays.

Feel free to join us. Oh, and we don't attack others who don't share our views, nor troll them. Above all, I allow an open discussion of what's right or wrong with the forum, without bannining anyone who questions authority. And we don't have secret hidden forums and special groups to entice others to troll members they don't like.

It's okay if they attack me, I got thick skin unlike many of them, I can take the criticism. The hard line right is a dying breed. The country is waking up to their bullshit, (Trump is actually helping this along believe it or not)

If you are going to discuss politics, you have to wear a rhino hide. Politics is a dirty, mean, nasty, business, the reason for this is that it actually affects all our lives. Some people take this shit personally, to be successful, you can't.

I make my living taking money from conservatives. My job directly is involved in politics. Normal conservatives, aren't like the ones you meet online. They may spew the random bullshit conservative talking point, but the VAST majority of conservatives aren't this insane. The ones that you get online are those that make WWII era Nazis look like tree hugging, bleeding heart, save the whales, make love not war, hippies.

Hitler would actually look at these people and say "Calm the fuck down, damn!"

They aren't really the majority of conservatives. The hard liners that I deal with are more about fiscal policy than social policy. They may not like gays, but it's not really that important of an issue, the ones I deal with usually are more upset about spending in Washington, and want to balance the budget, and eliminate government waste. To most of my clients, social issues aren't as important as fiscal issues. And the vast majority of my clients are very reasonable conservatives, (the ones that this crowd would call RINO's)

I get the odd anti gay quip, or anti social jest here and there, but my clients are more interested in effecting fiscal change, and trying to make the government more of a fiscally responsible establishment. They just go Republican either because they tend to be elderly, and Republicans used to be sane in their day, or they listen to a lot of Rush, and Levin, and think the government is out of control.

Listen, this is a pretty lax forum, you want the hardcore shit, head on over to ATS, Liberals don't last long there. Hell, many of the conservatives here would be chewed up and spat out over there. ATS don't play.

All I'm saying is get into the fight, grow some balls, take your stand, and don't let these idiots bully you into running away. After all, what can the do? They are only posting words. Get your Rhino hide on, just blow off the obvious trolls, (I got one asshole on ignore, but that's only because @Tahuyaman just wouldn't stop posting a mod's quote as his reply for everything I wrote. It was a waste of my time, and so I ignored him. Obvious troll was obvious.

All I'm saying is get into the fight, get your Rhino armor on, take your punches, dish them back harder, and above all, facts, facts, facts, there is nothing worse to a conservative troll than facts.

Chris
09-11-2015, 04:11 PM
It's okay if they attack me, I got thick skin unlike many of them, I can take the criticism. The hard line right is a dying breed. The country is waking up to their bullshit, (Trump is actually helping this along believe it or not)

If you are going to discuss politics, you have to wear a rhino hide. Politics is a dirty, mean, nasty, business, the reason for this is that it actually affects all our lives. Some people take this shit personally, to be successful, you can't.

I make my living taking money from conservatives. My job directly is involved in politics. Normal conservatives, aren't like the ones you meet online. They may spew the random bullshit conservative talking point, but the VAST majority of conservatives aren't this insane. The ones that you get online are those that make WWII era Nazis look like tree hugging, bleeding heart, save the whales, make love not war, hippies.

Hitler would actually look at these people and say "Calm the fuck down, damn!"

They aren't really the majority of conservatives. The hard liners that I deal with are more about fiscal policy than social policy. They may not like gays, but it's not really that important of an issue, the ones I deal with usually are more upset about spending in Washington, and want to balance the budget, and eliminate government waste. To most of my clients, social issues aren't as important as fiscal issues. And the vast majority of my clients are very reasonable conservatives, (the ones that this crowd would call RINO's)

I get the odd anti gay quip, or anti social jest here and there, but my clients are more interested in effecting fiscal change, and trying to make the government more of a fiscally responsible establishment. They just go Republican either because they tend to be elderly, and Republicans used to be sane in their day, or they listen to a lot of Rush, and Levin, and think the government is out of control.

Listen, this is a pretty lax forum, you want the hardcore shit, head on over to ATS, Liberals don't last long there. Hell, many of the conservatives here would be chewed up and spat out over there. ATS don't play.

All I'm saying is get into the fight, grow some balls, take your stand, and don't let these idiots bully you into running away. After all, what can the do? They are only posting words. Get your Rhino hide on, just blow off the obvious trolls, (I got one asshole on ignore, but that's only because @Tahuyaman just wouldn't stop posting a mod's quote as his reply for everything I wrote. It was a waste of my time, and so I ignored him. Obvious troll was obvious.

All I'm saying is get into the fight, get your Rhino armor on, take your punches, dish them back harder, and above all, facts, facts, facts, there is nothing worse to a conservative troll than facts.


True, when it comes to criticism of what someone posts, the message, it should be, to continue your metaphor, open season on anything anyone posts. Too many confuse that for personal attack.

Green Arrow
09-11-2015, 04:11 PM
Agree. Not my point tho, no one with a life reads everything, not mortgages, not congressional bills, and not treaties. We rely on representatives we choose for much of the technical work.

I have a life, I still find time to read pertinent bills and treaties.

Redrose
09-11-2015, 04:14 PM
I have a life, I still find time to read pertinent bills and treaties.


There are many people who take the time to read through important documents, but comprehend little of it. Then they sign on the dotted line and get all bent out of shape when they realize they got screwed.

Common Sense
09-11-2015, 04:15 PM
The reality is most bills and treaties are written in legalese and for the average layman, they are not easily understood. They can also be misinterpreted or in fact misrepresented (just look at the so called UN agenda 13 or whatever number it is).

At a certain point, you have to have a modicum of trust in your elected representatives. Just a modicum.

whatukno
09-11-2015, 05:03 PM
True, when it comes to criticism of what someone posts, the message, it should be, to continue your metaphor, open season on anything anyone posts. Too many confuse that for personal attack.

Really? Really. You know I am saving this quote of yours right?

Peter1469
09-11-2015, 07:56 PM
It's okay if they attack me, I got thick skin unlike many of them, I can take the criticism. The hard line right is a dying breed. The country is waking up to their bullshit, (Trump is actually helping this along believe it or not)

If you are going to discuss politics, you have to wear a rhino hide. Politics is a dirty, mean, nasty, business, the reason for this is that it actually affects all our lives. Some people take this shit personally, to be successful, you can't.

I make my living taking money from conservatives. My job directly is involved in politics. Normal conservatives, aren't like the ones you meet online. They may spew the random bullshit conservative talking point, but the VAST majority of conservatives aren't this insane. The ones that you get online are those that make WWII era Nazis look like tree hugging, bleeding heart, save the whales, make love not war, hippies.

Hitler would actually look at these people and say "Calm the fuck down, damn!"

They aren't really the majority of conservatives. The hard liners that I deal with are more about fiscal policy than social policy. They may not like gays, but it's not really that important of an issue, the ones I deal with usually are more upset about spending in Washington, and want to balance the budget, and eliminate government waste. To most of my clients, social issues aren't as important as fiscal issues. And the vast majority of my clients are very reasonable conservatives, (the ones that this crowd would call RINO's)

I get the odd anti gay quip, or anti social jest here and there, but my clients are more interested in effecting fiscal change, and trying to make the government more of a fiscally responsible establishment. They just go Republican either because they tend to be elderly, and Republicans used to be sane in their day, or they listen to a lot of Rush, and Levin, and think the government is out of control.

Listen, this is a pretty lax forum, you want the hardcore shit, head on over to ATS, Liberals don't last long there. Hell, many of the conservatives here would be chewed up and spat out over there. ATS don't play.

All I'm saying is get into the fight, grow some balls, take your stand, and don't let these idiots bully you into running away. After all, what can the do? They are only posting words. Get your Rhino hide on, just blow off the obvious trolls, (I got one asshole on ignore, but that's only because @Tahuyaman just wouldn't stop posting a mod's quote as his reply for everything I wrote. It was a waste of my time, and so I ignored him. Obvious troll was obvious.

All I'm saying is get into the fight, get your Rhino armor on, take your punches, dish them back harder, and above all, facts, facts, facts, there is nothing worse to a conservative troll than facts.

The hard left will crash the economy and the USD.

Prepare.

Captain Obvious
09-11-2015, 08:56 PM
lol Howey

Mister D
09-11-2015, 08:58 PM
Really? Really. You know I am saving this quote of yours right?

here's an even better idea: try putting it in practice.

Chris
09-11-2015, 09:22 PM
The reality is most bills and treaties are written in legalese and for the average layman, they are not easily understood. They can also be misinterpreted or in fact misrepresented (just look at the so called UN agenda 13 or whatever number it is).

At a certain point, you have to have a modicum of trust in your elected representatives. Just a modicum.


The reality is most legislators do not read the bills they vote on....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-05TLiiLU

Chris
09-11-2015, 09:23 PM
Really? Really. You know I am saving this quote of yours right?

I'm not famous enough. :D

Peter1469
09-12-2015, 01:33 AM
The reality is most legislators do not read the bills they vote on....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-05TLiiLU

They don't need to read the legislation. That is not how law-making works. It is more horse-trading.

Ravens Fan
09-12-2015, 08:54 AM
This was the response I got from @Howey (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=387) in a thread about the Iran Nuclear Deal, where I said that I was withholding judgment until I could read the entirety of the deal:



Does anybody else seriously agree with this approach to politics? Blissful ignorance and reliance on politicians with phat paychecks from corporate bank accounts?

This is literally the first time I've encountered such a mindset.

That is an insane approach to have. Who in their right mind would just trust politicians unchecked? They are supposed to be our representatives, and answer to us for their actions. We are supposed to just take them at their word that have done a good job? Every American citizen should be free to read ant piece of legislation, any treaty and any contract that the politicians enter into in their behalf, period.

Anybody who would just give kids the keys to the candy shop unsupervised, deserves to be robbed blind.

Ravens Fan
09-12-2015, 08:58 AM
It's incredibly ignorant to think that those who feel we need change in our government refuse to become proactive, run for office, and change it.

You'd rather burn down Washington, overthrow the government and create Randworld.

You people are no more Americans than those who attacked this country 14 years ago today.
Why? Because they dare to question the establishment?

donttread
09-13-2015, 07:09 AM
Most Americans are not going to read a 159 page document.

People don't read the fine print or details on documents that involve their own financial well being, and you think they will read a 159 page treaty ? And even if they read it, most people would not understand the technical aspects.


There are any number of good summaries of the agreement available to the public.

But when did it become acceptable for the representatives voting on the bill to not read the bill?

Chris
09-13-2015, 10:35 AM
They don't need to read the legislation. That is not how law-making works. It is more horse-trading.

Yes, I imagine a lot of passing a bill involves making deals, vote for this and I'll support yours.