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View Full Version : tPF Why is it bad to vote for someone based on their race?



Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 10:20 AM
Republicans constantly criticize blacks for voting for Obama because he was black. Why is that a bad thing? Would someone like Mac-7 vote for an atheist?

I think it's natural to vote for someone that is similar to us. Mormons supported Romney because he was Mormon. Lots of conservative Christians vote for Christian candidates. Some whites vote for white candidates.

Safety
09-13-2015, 10:34 AM
Republicans constantly criticize blacks for voting for Obama because he was black. Why is that a bad thing? Would someone like Mac-7 vote for an atheist?

I think it's natural to vote for someone that is similar to us. Mormons supported Romney because he was Mormon. Lots of conservative Christians vote for Christian candidates. Some whites vote for white candidates.

You will see the same phenomenon with the first woman candidate, hispanic candidate, Asian candidate, etc...

Private Pickle
09-13-2015, 10:41 AM
You will see the same phenomenon with the first woman candidate, hispanic candidate, Asian candidate, etc...

Doubtful.

The Xl
09-13-2015, 10:46 AM
It's stupid if he doesn't support your interests.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 10:47 AM
It's stupid if he doesn't support your interests.

There's the assumption there though that someone that is like you is more likely to support your interests, because they understand your interests.

Mark III
09-13-2015, 10:58 AM
Blacks have voted at about 75-80% for Democrats, in most places, since the mid 60's when the Democrats became the party of the civil rights movement and the Republicans became the party of the "southern strategy".


By 1961, however, Barry Goldwater and his partisans had become convinced that the key to electoral success lay in gaining ground in the South, and that in turn required appealing to racist sentiments in white voters, even at the cost of black support. As Goldwater drawled, “We’re not going to get the Negro vote as a bloc in 1964 and 1968, so we ought to go hunting where the ducks are.”
This racial plan riled more moderate members of the Republican establishment, such as New York senator Jacob Javits, who in the fall of 1963 may have been the first to refer to a “Southern Strategy” in the context of repudiating it. By then, however, the right wing of the party had won out. As the conservative journalist Robert Novak reported after attending a meeting of the Republican National Committee in Denver during the summer of 1963: “A good many, perhaps a majority of the party’s leadership, envision substantial political gold to be mined in the racial crisis by becoming in fact, though not in name, the White Man’s Party. ‘ http://www.salon.com/2013/12/22/how_the_gop_became_the_white_mans_party/


Obama got in the 90% range for the simplest of reasons. He was the first viable and electable non white Presidential candidate in the nation's history. Every vote for him was a historic vote. He did even better with blacks the second time, as they had seen the way white racists treated him in the first term and now voted out of anger.

Safety
09-13-2015, 11:02 AM
Doubtful.

I disagree.

Mark III
09-13-2015, 11:12 AM
Doubtful.

Safety is correct, and it is so obvious one wonders why there is even a question.

IMPress Polly
09-13-2015, 11:18 AM
I think we all at least subconsciously consider matters like a candidate's race, gender, class background, religion, sexual orientation, etc. when deciding who to vote for, no matter how unbiased and objective we think we are. I don't think there's anything irrational about giving those things consideration. After all, as GA has suggested, it is true to say that the more similar someone is to you, the more likely they are to understand your interests. However, most people are not reductionist enough to consider ONLY those things and neither am I.

Common
09-13-2015, 11:44 AM
Because they could be a terrible politician who cant do the job. Its absurd to vote for anything just on race. Always vote on who you believe is the best person for the job

The Xl
09-13-2015, 11:52 AM
There's the assumption there though that someone that is like you is more likely to support your interests, because they understand your interests.

I get that, and it's understandable if said person actually understands and will work for your interests, but if you know he/she hasn't or won't, then it's stupid and borderline racist.

Private Pickle
09-13-2015, 11:52 AM
Safety is correct, and it is so obvious one wonders why there is even a question.

I disagree.

The Xl
09-13-2015, 11:55 AM
I think we all at least subconsciously consider matters like a candidate's race, gender, class background, religion, sexual orientation, etc. when deciding who to vote for, no matter how unbiased and objective we think we are. I don't think there's anything irrational about giving those things consideration. After all, as GA has suggested, it is true to say that the more similar someone is to you, the more likely they are to understand your interests. However, most people are not reductionist enough to consider ONLY those things and neither am I.

I vote for people who support my interests the most. Sometimes, they're not even close to me, or to each other. I'm pretty much nothing like Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders, personally or politically, nor are they like each other in any manner, but I support them the most because it's clear that the Dems and Republicans dislike them the most, and they're the most independent minded of the field. I'd vote for fucking Louis Farrakhan over the rest of the field. So, to me, it's a matter of voting who supports your interests the most. If they look like you, or you share some other common trait, like religion or sex, then that's fine, but one should do their research before blindly taking that plunge.

The Xl
09-13-2015, 11:58 AM
As far as blacks go, they vote Dem like 85-90% of the time, their was merely a slight uptick for Obama, so it's incorrect, or at least, inconclusive to say they vote by race. They seem to vote by political party. Herman Cain and Ben Carson got and will continue to get no traction with black people.

IMPress Polly
09-13-2015, 12:57 PM
It's worth adding here that much of the way I vote is shaped by empathy, which is a factor we haven't discussed here yet. I think that's a factor for a lot of voters, though maybe not the dominant one for most. For example though, I wouldn't vote for any candidate who opposed Black Lives Matter or a path to citizenship for undocumented workers or marriage equality even though none of those things benefit me personally. So I think empathy is another factor that people consider in how they vote (albeit probably not to my degree; I think most people are more self-centered than I am, to be brutally frank).

As to Ben Carson, I think that if the Republicans were to nominate an African American for the first time in their party's history, that would indeed significantly affect their popularity among black people, perhaps sufficiently to increase the party's usual 10% of the African American vote to something more like 25, 30, or perhaps even 40%. Now to garner the overall majority thereof, you have to support Black Lives Matter and the restoration of voting rights previously guaranteed by the Voting Rights Act at minimum, and while the likes of Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton strongly supports those things (one possessing a more consistent history on the subject than the other), Carson does not. Carson's views on these topics are informed by his privileged class position that seems to make it difficult for him to relate to average black people and their concerns. THESE are the sorts of reasons why black people have voted for Democrats for the last 50 years or so. It is about interests. Carson, as an African American though, understands their interests at least a LITTLE better than his Republican colleagues do and you can tell as much by the simple fact that he bothers to attend Urban League events and so forth. I think being African American is, for him, definitely part of feeling motivated to go to those events, even if you don't have much to offer besides a snooty lecture once you get there.

Safety
09-13-2015, 01:08 PM
Because they could be a terrible politician who cant do the job. Its absurd to vote for anything just on race. Always vote on who you believe is the best person for the job
What would have been different if Romney was president instead of Obama?

The Xl
09-13-2015, 02:19 PM
What would have been different if Romney was president instead of Obama?

Nothing. Except the right wingers would be singing his praises and the libs would be crying. But politically, nothing would change.

Mister D
09-13-2015, 02:21 PM
Republicans constantly criticize blacks for voting for Obama because he was black. Why is that a bad thing? Would someone like @Mac-7 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1014) vote for an atheist?

I think it's natural to vote for someone that is similar to us. Mormons supported Romney because he was Mormon. Lots of conservative Christians vote for Christian candidates. Some whites vote for white candidates.

People criticize blacks for doing so because the official line (i.e. that race doesn't matter and no one should be making choices based on race) does not apply to blacks. IOW, it's the blatant double standard that invites the criticism.

The Xl
09-13-2015, 02:29 PM
People criticize blacks for doing so because the official line (i.e. that race doesn't matter and no one should be making choices based on race) does not apply to blacks. IOW, it's the blatant double standard that invites the criticism.

I challenge this. Maybe I'm wrong, but where are the stats that verify blacks voting black overwhelmingly? They vote for black democrats, but not so much black republicans. Seems to be more a political deal.

Mister D
09-13-2015, 02:37 PM
I challenge this. Maybe I'm wrong, but where are the stats that verify blacks voting black overwhelmingly? They vote for black democrats, but not so much black republicans. Seems to be more a political deal.

The Obama hysteria aside, most evident locally where blacks a majority.

Mister D
09-13-2015, 02:38 PM
Quite frankly, American politics is to a large extent a racial headcount. White southerners have always known that.

The Xl
09-13-2015, 03:25 PM
The Obama hysteria aside, most evident locally where blacks a majority.

Does race supersede political allegiance? Will an average black vote for a black republican over a white democrat?

Mister D
09-13-2015, 03:31 PM
Does race supersede political allegiance? Will an average black vote for a black republican over a white democrat?

Blacks vote for other blacks to represent them out of political allegiance. The idea being that blacks will better represent the interests of blacks. I don't think there is anything wrong with the reasoning but I'm willing to bet many of the mighty white folks here will just as soon as it is applied to whites.

Mister D
09-13-2015, 03:33 PM
I want to make sure I'm perfectly clear on that, Xl. I think it's a reasonable and healthy thing for blacks to do. It's white folks who are naive and self-destructive

The Xl
09-13-2015, 03:35 PM
I want to make sure I'm perfectly clear on that, Xl. I think it's a reasonable and healthy thing for blacks to do. It's white folks who are naive and self-destructive

It doesn't matter to me either way, frankly, although I'd argue many of those they vote for don't wind up doing their bidding. In any case, I doubt they vote racially first over politically, but maybe I'm wrong, I'd have to look that up.

Peter1469
09-13-2015, 03:35 PM
Does race supersede political allegiance? Will an average black vote for a black republican over a white democrat?

I think you would see the typical low voter turn out in that case.

Private Pickle
09-13-2015, 05:19 PM
Does race supersede political allegiance? Will an average black vote for a black republican over a white democrat?

I believe it would have prior to Obama but solely for blacks. I don't think it would be the case for other minorities.

Safety
09-13-2015, 05:32 PM
People criticize blacks for doing so because the official line (i.e. that race doesn't matter and no one should be making choices based on race) does not apply to blacks. IOW, it's the blatant double standard that invites the criticism.
Kinda like other double standards such as "anybody can be a thug" and when a conservative says they are colorblind, but make sure they point out that santa or Jesus is white...

Safety
09-13-2015, 05:36 PM
I challenge this. Maybe I'm wrong, but where are the stats that verify blacks voting black overwhelmingly? They vote for black democrats, but not so much black republicans. Seems to be more a political deal.
Nothing more than a simple knowledge of history would make anyone understand why.

Safety
09-13-2015, 05:44 PM
I believe it would have prior to Obama but solely for blacks. I don't think it would be the case for other minorities.
Any uptick to how people would normally vote, depending on a minority being the first in that office, would disprove your position.

Mister D
09-13-2015, 06:35 PM
Kinda like other double standards such as "anybody can be a thug" and when a conservative says they are colorblind, but make sure they point out that santa or Jesus is white...

Other supposed double standards aren't the topic.

Safety
09-13-2015, 06:49 PM
Other supposed double standards aren't the topic.
Usually they aren't, but the topic of double standards makes it on topic. Kinda like when people bring up crime rates when talking about gun violence.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 07:19 PM
I believe it would have prior to Obama but solely for blacks. I don't think it would be the case for other minorities.

I can pretty much guarantee that if a conservative Republican Hispanic or pro-lax immigration Hispanic Democrat got the nomination of either party, Hispanics would overwhelmingly vote for them. Ditto if an Asian math teacher or doctor got the nomination of either party, Asians would overwhelmingly vote for them.

Redrose
09-13-2015, 07:26 PM
Republicans constantly criticize blacks for voting for Obama because he was black. Why is that a bad thing? Would someone like @Mac-7 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1014) vote for an atheist?

I think it's natural to vote for someone that is similar to us. Mormons supported Romney because he was Mormon. Lots of conservative Christians vote for Christian candidates. Some whites vote for white candidates.


Color should never be a consideration for a vote, pro or con. I don't like Obama, I do like Carson. I didn't vote for Obama, but I would vote for Carson. Their skin tone has absolutely nothing to do with my decision. If it came down to Dr. Carson vs Trump in the GOP primary, I'd vote for Dr. Carson.

Hillary is a senior white woman, so am I. I would never vote for her under any condition.

Voting is supposed to elect the best person for the job. The skin color means nothing. What's important is their mind, their core values and principles.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 07:40 PM
Color should never be a consideration for a vote, pro or con. I don't like Obama, I do like Carson. I didn't vote for Obama, but I would vote for Carson. Their skin tone has absolutely nothing to do with my decision. If it came down to Dr. Carson vs Trump in the GOP primary, I'd vote for Dr. Carson.

Hillary is a senior white woman, so am I. I would never vote for her under any condition.

Voting is supposed to elect the best person for the job. The skin color means nothing. What's important is their mind, their core values and principles.

But our life experiences affect all of those things. My life experiences as a white man are not the same as the life experiences of a black person. A black candidate could (in theory) address the issues of black people better than I could, especially if they had similar upbringing to most blacks. Likewise, a white feller like Bernie Sanders has a similar life story to my own, so naturally he represents my interests (in my opinion) better than anyone else.

Mister D
09-13-2015, 07:41 PM
Usually they aren't, but the topic of double standards makes it on topic. Kinda like when people bring up crime rates when talking about gun violence.

No, it's not kind of like that. If you want to talk about gun violence you should actually talk about where and among whom most of that violence occurs. If you feel compelled to avoid the topic I'll take that as an indication that what I said is true; +

Safety
09-13-2015, 07:45 PM
No, it's not kind of like that. If you want to talk about gun violence you may as actually talk about where and among whom most of the violence occurs. Anyway, if you have nothing to say about the topic I'll take that as agreement.

Up to a point where the disagreement isn't about the double standards being presented, but the fact that some are accepted and others are off-topic. Once again, it all depends on perception.

In this case, the double standard of saying one thing, but doing another is very valid as to why blacks vote for one party over another.

GrassrootsConservative
09-13-2015, 07:45 PM
I get that, and it's understandable if said person actually understands and will work for
your interests, but if you know he/she hasn't or won't, then it's stupid and borderline racist.

Agree 100%. Although I don't think there's anything "borderline" about it. If I heard someone voted for Romney or McCain because they're white and Obama is black they're racist for that, too.

del
09-13-2015, 07:45 PM
double standards, indeed

lol

Redrose
09-13-2015, 07:50 PM
But our life experiences affect all of those things. My life experiences as a white man are not the same as the life experiences of a black person. A black candidate could (in theory) address the issues of black people better than I could, especially if they had similar upbringing to most blacks. Likewise, a white feller like Bernie Sanders has a similar life story to my own, so naturally he represents my interests (in my opinion) better than anyone else.


True, but a president is supposed to put aside personal biases and be a president for all people. He/she will be true to his/her political beliefs of course, but not show favor to one group over another.

Mister D
09-13-2015, 07:52 PM
Up to a point where the disagreement isn't about the double standards being presented, but the fact that some are accepted and others are off-topic. Once again, it all depends on perception.

In this case, the double standard of saying one thing, but doing another is very valid as to why blacks vote for one party over another.

Then take it up with whoever those people are who accept double standards. Since I don't, it's not appropriate to respond that way to my comments.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 07:54 PM
True, but a president is supposed to put aside personal biases and be a president for all people. He/she will be true to his/her political beliefs of course, but not show favor to one group over another.

Shouldn't that be the case as far as political party goes, too?

GrassrootsConservative
09-13-2015, 07:54 PM
True, but a president is supposed to put aside personal biases and be a president for all people. He/she will be true to his/her political beliefs of course, but not show favor to one group over another.

This is why I think Obama is a racist. He is not indiscriminate towards all people. He hates certain groups over others both verbally and in policy.

Bob
09-13-2015, 08:00 PM
Republicans constantly criticize blacks for voting for Obama because he was black. Why is that a bad thing? Would someone like @Mac-7 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1014) vote for an atheist?

I think it's natural to vote for someone that is similar to us. Mormons supported Romney because he was Mormon. Lots of conservative Christians vote for Christian candidates. Some whites vote for white candidates.

You brought up Mormons so this is time for me to comment. I never voted for Romney because he is a Mormon. But it was a very good reason to vote for him.

My reason is I understand my church. I understand the priesthood. I realize the men of my church are not phony as a rule. I feel Sen. Reid is a phony Mormon but those are rare.

I knew the good things Mitt did. For his family, for others and even for the public. I knew he has a good heart or he never would have accepted the Democrats health plan for MA.

The Mormons are huge on helping the poor. We spent a lot of time helping those unable to help themselves. We live a life devoted to good deeds.

I feel if the bigotry and prejudice had not won, Mitt Romney would have. I feel he was looked down on far worse than blacks are.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 08:06 PM
This is why I think Obama is a racist. He is not indiscriminate towards all people. He hates certain groups over others both verbally and in policy.

This isn't about Obama. Please stay on topic and address the question of the OP.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 08:07 PM
You brought up Mormons so this is time for me to comment. I never voted for Romney because he is a Mormon. But it was a very good reason to vote for him.

My reason is I understand my church. I understand the priesthood. I realize the men of my church are not phony as a rule. I feel Sen. Reid is a phony Mormon but those are rare.

I knew the good things Mitt did. For his family, for others and even for the public. I knew he has a good heart or he never would have accepted the Democrats health plan for MA.

The Mormons are huge on helping the poor. We spent a lot of time helping those unable to help themselves. We live a life devoted to good deeds.

I feel if the bigotry and prejudice had not won, Mitt Romney would have. I feel he was looked down on far worse than blacks are.

This isn't about Mitt Romney or Mormons, that was just an example. Please address the question of the OP.

Safety
09-13-2015, 08:11 PM
Then take it up with whoever those people are who accept double standards. Since I don't, it's not appropriate to respond that way to my comments.

....right. Noted.



Getting back to the topic, I see some would like to associate deciding which party has their interests and having an unprecedented event as it being the norm. Oh well, I guess time will tell in 2016.

Mister D
09-13-2015, 08:14 PM
....right. Noted.



Getting back to the topic, I see some would like to associate deciding which party has their interests and having an unprecedented event as it being the norm. Oh well, I guess time will tell in 2016.

Who?

Redrose
09-13-2015, 08:16 PM
Shouldn't that be the case as far as political party goes, too?


Yes, but we both know that doesn't happen. I see being president very different from say being a Senator or Congressman. The president now is the leader of the entire country, he needs to represent all of us fairly.

Cigar
09-13-2015, 08:17 PM
Republicans constantly criticize blacks for voting for Obama because he was black. Why is that a bad thing? Would someone like @Mac-7 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1014) vote for an atheist?

I think it's natural to vote for someone that is similar to us. Mormons supported Romney because he was Mormon. Lots of conservative Christians vote for Christian candidates. Some whites vote for white candidates.

I never worry about someone elses Vote, because I can't control what they do once in the voting booth, and neither can anyone else.

Safety
09-13-2015, 08:19 PM
Who?

Whomever thinks that way.

Safety
09-13-2015, 08:23 PM
Yes, but we both know that doesn't happen. I see being president very different from say being a Sanator or Congressman. The president now is the leader of the entire country, he needs to represent all of us fairly.

That's next to impossible. There was a subset of society who would never vote for him, and made it their mission to cause as much as a division they could by creating an agenda the night he won the vote. You see many on this site with the same vitriol, so there's no way anything he could do would be seen as "fair".

Cletus
09-13-2015, 08:30 PM
Voting FOR someone because of his race is no different from voting AGAINST someone because of his race.

If one is racist, so is the other.

It is also irresponsible.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 08:32 PM
Yes, but we both know that doesn't happen. I see being president very different from say being a Sanator or Congressman. The president now is the leader of the entire country, he needs to represent all of us fairly.

I agree with that, but it seems most voters actually want the President to only represent their party's interests.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 08:32 PM
I never worry about someone elses Vote, because I can't control what they do once in the voting booth, and neither can anyone else.

Dude, who do you think you're fooling? You're constantly ridiculing people for who they choose to vote for.

Bob
09-13-2015, 08:33 PM
You will see the same phenomenon with the first woman candidate, hispanic candidate, Asian candidate, etc...

You are not questioning his broad brush I see. Or your own.

Safety
09-13-2015, 08:37 PM
Voting FOR someone because of his race is no different from voting AGAINST someone because of his race.

If one is racist, so is the other.

It is also irresponsible.

Sure, where are the ones who voted against Obama because of his race?

Safety
09-13-2015, 08:37 PM
You are not questioning his broad brush I see. Or your own.

I'm not the topic.

Cletus
09-13-2015, 08:40 PM
Sure, where are the ones who voted against Obama because of his race?

Stupid question.

They are probably out there with the ones who voted FOR him because of his race... and yes, there were a bunch of those. I would venture at least as many, and probably more than voted against him because of it.

Bob
09-13-2015, 08:41 PM
That's next to impossible. There was a subset of society who would never vote for him, and made it their mission to cause as much as a division they could by creating an agenda the night he won the vote. You see many on this site with the same vitriol, so there's no way anything he could do would be seen as "fair".

Same thing happened to GW Bush. But we did not yell that it was because he is white.

Democrats hated Bush.

Safety
09-13-2015, 08:44 PM
Stupid question.

They are probably out there with the ones who voted FOR him because of his race... and yes, there were a bunch of those. I would venture at least as many, and probably more than voted against him because of it.

Oh, I was only trying to see if you could quantify it, since you spoke about it. I haven't seen one person online that admits to voting against Obama because of his skin color, one can only speculate.

Safety
09-13-2015, 08:45 PM
Same thing happened to GW Bush. But we did not yell that it was because he is white.

Democrats hated Bush.


How could you yell it was because he was white, when that was the only option until 2008? Been hitting the bottle?

Cletus
09-13-2015, 08:47 PM
Oh, I was only trying to see if you could quantify it, since you spoke about it. I haven't seen one person online that admits to voting against Obama because of his skin color, one can only speculate.

Well, since I didn't stand outside every voting booth in the country and ask people why they voted for or against Obama, I don't see how I could quantify it. I voted against Obama... twice. There were a lot of good reasons for doing so, but none them had anything to do with his race.

Bob
09-13-2015, 08:50 PM
I'm not the topic.

True as I stuck to the comments. The broad brush used as you well know.

Bob
09-13-2015, 08:52 PM
How could you yell it was because he was white, when that was the only option until 2008? Been hitting the bottle?

I am not the topic. It is as much a problem that blacks hated Bush as Obama claims is why he is hated. Obama brings this upon himself.

Bob
09-13-2015, 08:58 PM
Oh, I was only trying to see if you could quantify it, since you spoke about it. I haven't seen one person online that admits to voting against Obama because of his skin color, one can only speculate.

That tells you that we don't object to Obama over skin color. After-all, he is as much white as black.

Safety
09-13-2015, 09:01 PM
That tells you that we don't object to Obama over skin color. After-all, he is as much white as black.

Yea, ok.

Bob
09-13-2015, 09:03 PM
This isn't about Mitt Romney or Mormons, that was just an example. Please address the question of the OP.

You brought him up and now you are complaining? Conversations have various facets to them and I addressed your own point.

Let me go back to see your comments but leaving out your so called example.

Bob
09-13-2015, 09:05 PM
Why is it bad to vote for someone based on their race?
Why do you claim it is bad? Blacks vote for the left accepting the lies told to them by the Democrats.

Bob
09-13-2015, 09:10 PM
There's the assumption there though that someone that is like you is more likely to support your interests, because they understand your interests.

I am a good example, as was Reagan, of a person devoted to the left wing for many many years that converted to republican ideology. The two parties never changed, I made the change. Race never is a factor since I vote for quality candidates. They come in all sorts of colors.

Bob
09-13-2015, 09:12 PM
Republicans constantly criticize blacks for voting for Obama because he was black. Why is that a bad thing? Would someone like @Mac-7 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1014) vote for an atheist?

I think it's natural to vote for someone that is similar to us. Mormons supported Romney because he was Mormon. Lots of conservative Christians vote for Christian candidates. Some whites vote for white candidates.

i feel bad for blacks that voted for him over skin color. But I believe most did vote for him over his color.

I don't consider color as a factor when voting.

GrassrootsConservative
09-13-2015, 09:15 PM
This isn't about Obama. Please stay on topic and address the question of the OP.

If you'd read the box with what XL said you'd see that it is on topic. You want to see off topic go to one of my threads.

Bob
09-13-2015, 09:19 PM
Blacks have voted at about 75-80% for Democrats, in most places, since the mid 60's when the Democrats became the party of the civil rights movement and the Republicans became the party of the "southern strategy".
‘ http://www.salon.com/2013/12/22/how_the_gop_became_the_white_mans_party/


Obama got in the 90% range for the simplest of reasons. He was the first viable and electable non white Presidential candidate in the nation's history. Every vote for him was a historic vote. He did even better with blacks the second time, as they had seen the way white racists treated him in the first term and now voted out of anger. [/FONT]

I know you won't accept this, but the comments up above are baloney. It is propaganda.

Private Pickle
09-13-2015, 09:22 PM
Any uptick to how people would normally vote, depending on a minority being the first in that office, would disprove your position.

Yet we don't have that so... Who is "wrong" here?

Look it's OK to admit the American African is different than other minorities and rightly so.

Private Pickle
09-13-2015, 09:26 PM
I can pretty much guarantee that if a conservative Republican Hispanic or pro-lax immigration Hispanic Democrat got the nomination of either party, Hispanics would overwhelmingly vote for them. Ditto if an Asian math teacher or doctor got the nomination of either party, Asians would overwhelmingly vote for them.

You're moving the goalposts.

Bob
09-13-2015, 09:29 PM
Because they could be a terrible politician who cant do the job. Its absurd to vote for anything just on race. Always vote on who you believe is the best person for the job

There is the major problem. That people can honestly assess candidates.

When I voted only Democratic, I based my vote on prejudice, bigotry and total bias. I knew Democrats were absolutely the best.

But i matured to the point i questioned my own bigoted beliefs and once I concluded my study, I changed to republican.

This does not mean republicans are on my side 100 percent of the time. The super-rich don't know me. I do know some of the rich and find them delightful, quite different than Democrats claim they are. Skin color is no reason to vote for any person to be president. But ask Democrats and they accept it on good faith that blacks must vote for blacks. And further, those must be Democrats.

Safety
09-13-2015, 09:36 PM
Yet we don't have that so... Who is "wrong" here?

Look it's OK to admit the American African is different than other minorities and rightly so.

Yea, that hasn't happened yet, so sure.

Bob
09-13-2015, 09:43 PM
What would have been different if Romney was president instead of Obama?

To begin with, the government operations would be transparent. And you would not see republicans coming to testify that they used personal servers to conduct official goverment business. You would have seen a very organised operation and the focus would be on improving the conditions needed for more jobs. Romney would have tried hard to bring jobs back to America. But then Romney knew what he was doing and Obama did not.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 09:47 PM
i feel bad for blacks that voted for him over skin color. But I believe most did vote for him over his color.

I don't consider color as a factor when voting.

Why is it bad to vote for someone based on their race?

That's the question.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 09:49 PM
You're moving the goalposts.

Nope, I'm saying the same thing I've been saying.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 09:50 PM
If you'd read the box with what XL said you'd see that it is on topic. You want to see off topic go to one of my threads.

It's off-topic. The topic isn't whether or not Obama is a racist, or how racist Obama is, or anything to do with Obama. The topic is the question in the topic header: Why is it bad to vote for someone based on their race?

Seriously, it's not complicated. If I wanted this thread to rabbit trail I wouldn't have put it in the tPFD.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 09:50 PM
Yea, that hasn't happened yet, so sure.

*poke*

Let's bring it back in...

Redrose
09-13-2015, 09:51 PM
That's next to impossible. There was a subset of society who would never vote for him, and made it their mission to cause as much as a division they could by creating an agenda the night he won the vote. You see many on this site with the same vitriol, so there's no way anything he could do would be seen as "fair".


That's true for all presidents I'm sure. The difference I saw with the way President Obama lead was he'd state the "GOP" by name as the source of all the nations problems, not once, not twice, but over and over and over. Some of the top Dems took the cue from him and called the GOP "terrorists". That is just flat out wrong. Many of the lemmings on the left believe that bunk.

He made the GOP the enemy. He seemed to forget the GOP represents a huge portion of the country and they have views and opinions too. We are not enemies, we are all American citizens and our elected representatives are supposed to vote to protect our interests. That's why we send them to Congress.

He is the worst of all the presidents in my long memory in that respect.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 09:53 PM
That's true for all presidents I'm sure. The difference I saw with the way President Obama lead was he state the "GOP" by name as the source of all the nations problems, not once, not twice, but over and over and over. Some of the top Dems took the cue from him and called the GOP "terrorists". That is just flat out wrong. Many of the lemmings on the left believe that bunk.

He made the GOP the enemy. He seemed to forget the GOP represents a huge portion of the country and they have views and opinions too. We are not enemies, we are all American citizens and our elected representatives are supposed to vote to protect our interests. That's why we send them to Congress.

He is the worst of all the presidents in my long memory in that respect.

To be fair, Republicans have perfected the whole "anyone that disagrees with us is the enemy" talk too. Just listen to Boris, Mac, and others talk.

But at any rate, that's a side topic for another discussion.

Safety
09-13-2015, 09:56 PM
That's true for all presidents I'm sure. The difference I saw with the way President Obama lead was he'd state the "GOP" by name as the source of all the nations problems, not once, not twice, but over and over and over. Some of the top Dems took the cue from him and called the GOP "terrorists". That is just flat out wrong. Many of the lemmings on the left believe that bunk.

He made the GOP the enemy. He seemed to forget the GOP represents a huge portion of the country and they have views and opinions too. We are not enemies, we are all American citizens and our elected representatives are supposed to vote to protect our interests. That's why we send them to Congress.

He is the worst of all the presidents in my long memory in that respect.

The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.

-Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, quoted in National Journal

Bob
09-13-2015, 09:59 PM
Why is it bad to vote for someone based on their race?

That's the question.

You said it is bad, not me. But blacks do vote for blacks. I don't vote for anybody due to race.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 10:00 PM
You said it is bad, not me. But blacks do vote for blacks. I don't vote for anybody due to race.

So, you don't believe it is bad?

Bob
09-13-2015, 10:15 PM
The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.

-Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, quoted in National Journal

This happened two years after Obama was elected.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/when-did-mcconnell-say-he-wanted-to-make-obama-a-one-term-president/2012/09/24/79fd5cd8-0696-11e2-afff-d6c7f20a83bf_blog.html

National Journal


NJ: You’ve been studying the history of presidents who lost part or all of Congress in their first term. Why?

McConnell: In the last 100 years, three presidents suffered big defeats in Congress in their first term and then won reelection: Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, and the most recent example, Bill Clinton. I read a lot of history anyway, but I am trying to apply those lessons to current situations in hopes of not making the same mistakes.

NJ: What have you learned?

McConnell: After 1994, the public had the impression we Republicans overpromised and underdelivered. We suffered from some degree of hubris and acted as if the president was irrelevant and we would roll over him. By the summer of 1995, he was already on the way to being reelected, and we were hanging on for our lives.



NJ: What does this mean now?

McConnell: We need to be honest with the public. This election is about them, not us. And we need to treat this election as the first step in retaking the government. We need to say to everyone on Election Day, “Those of you who helped make this a good day, you need to go out and help us finish the job.”
NJ: What’s the job?

McConnell: The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.
NJ: Does that mean endless, or at least frequent, confrontation with the president?

McConnell: If President Obama does a Clintonian backflip, if he’s willing to meet us halfway on some of the biggest issues, it’s not inappropriate for us to do business with him.

Bob
09-13-2015, 10:17 PM
So, you don't believe it is bad?

I believe by doing it, they harm themselves, but it is their call.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 10:17 PM
I believe by doing it, they harm themselves, but it is their call.

So is it bad to vote for someone based on their race, or not?

I'd like a straight answer for a change.

Green Arrow
09-13-2015, 10:19 PM
This happened two years after Obama was elected.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/when-did-mcconnell-say-he-wanted-to-make-obama-a-one-term-president/2012/09/24/79fd5cd8-0696-11e2-afff-d6c7f20a83bf_blog.html

National Journal

NJ: You’ve been studying the history of presidents who lost part or all of Congress in their first term. Why?


McConnell: In the last 100 years, three presidents suffered big defeats in Congress in their first term and then won reelection: Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, and the most recent example, Bill Clinton. I read a lot of history anyway, but I am trying to apply those lessons to current situations in hopes of not making the same mistakes.


NJ: What have you learned?


McConnell: After 1994, the public had the impression we Republicans overpromised and underdelivered. We suffered from some degree of hubris and acted as if the president was irrelevant and we would roll over him. By the summer of 1995, he was already on the way to being reelected, and we were hanging on for our lives.


NJ: What does this mean now?


McConnell: We need to be honest with the public. This election is about them, not us. And we need to treat this election as the first step in retaking the government. We need to say to everyone on Election Day, “Those of you who helped make this a good day, you need to go out and help us finish the job.”

NJ: What’s the job?


McConnell: The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.

NJ: Does that mean endless, or at least frequent, confrontation with the president?


McConnell: If President Obama does a Clintonian backflip, if he’s willing to meet us halfway on some of the biggest issues, it’s not inappropriate for us to do business with him.


Safety and Bob -

I explained the topic a number of times and made several respectful requests that the discussion stay within that topic. I'm not going to make another one.

Bob
09-13-2015, 10:30 PM
So is it bad to vote for someone based on their race, or not?

I'd like a straight answer for a change.

Not to the voters it is not. I don't do it so I am not really aware of how it works, other than blacks say they vote for the man due to his race.

This is getting close to being like a question asked at times. Do you intend to stop beating your wife? The reply is a hole in the ground.

Common
09-13-2015, 10:55 PM
Sadly and I cant give a firm number because no one can know. Lets say a large number of americans vote Strictly Party no matter who the candidate is or what they are for, or they vote One issue like gay marriage or Guns everywhere or abortion.

Some will vote hillary merely because shes a woman some wont vote for her because shes a woman etc etc

Private Pickle
09-13-2015, 11:16 PM
Yea, that hasn't happened yet, so sure.

According to this thread it hasn't.

Captain Obvious
09-14-2015, 07:50 AM
It's only bad to vote for someone based on race if you're white.

Safety
09-14-2015, 08:05 AM
It's only bad to vote for someone based on race if you're white.
Seems to me, the only people here who are saying other people vote based on race are white, with a couple saying only blacks do it....so, we can't really say if it is only bad or not for whites to do it...

Captain Obvious
09-14-2015, 08:29 AM
Seems to me, the only people here who are saying other people vote based on race are white, with a couple saying only blacks do it....so, we can't really say if it is only bad or not for whites to do it...

I don't know about any of that.

White people voted for white people up until 7 years ago and I'm not sure how many white people voted solely or primarily based on race because two terms later...

GrassrootsConservative
09-14-2015, 08:34 AM
It's off-topic. The topic isn't whether or not Obama is a racist, or how racist Obama is, or anything to do with Obama. The topic is the question in the topic header: Why is it bad to vote for someone based on their race?

Seriously, it's not complicated. If I wanted this thread to rabbit trail I wouldn't have put it in the tPFD.

Because it's racist? I thought things that are racist were bad. I mean, that's what I've been told.

Green Arrow
09-14-2015, 08:35 AM
Because it's racist? I thought things that are racist were bad. I mean, that's what I've been told.

It's not racist unless you're casting that vote because you believe that race is superior to all others.

GrassrootsConservative
09-14-2015, 08:37 AM
It's not racist unless you're casting that vote because you believe that race is superior to all others.

Look I've been told I'm racist for simply acknowledging someone's skin color so to acknowledge that and vote for them based on it MUST be racist.

Green Arrow
09-14-2015, 08:38 AM
Look I've been told I'm racist for simply acknowledging someone's skin color so to acknowledge that and vote for them based on it MUST be racist.

It's not racist unless you're casting that vote because you believe that race is superior to all others.

Safety
09-14-2015, 08:41 AM
I don't know about any of that.

White people voted for white people up until 7 years ago and I'm not sure how many white people voted solely or primarily based on race because two terms later...
Everybody who voted, voted for white people until Obama. The statistics on who voted for who really didn't matter until that time.

Safety
09-14-2015, 08:43 AM
Look I've been told I'm racist for simply acknowledging someone's skin color so to acknowledge that and vote for them based on it MUST be racist.
Nah, it's because you use words like "nignog" or "nigger lovers".

Captain Obvious
09-14-2015, 08:44 AM
Everybody who voted, voted for white people until Obama. The statistics on who voted for who really didn't matter until that time.

That's kinda what I just said, and considering the first black president was voted into office in consecutive terms kinda gives us an idea how the largest voting demographic is voting.

Cigar
09-14-2015, 08:44 AM
i feel bad for blacks that voted for him over skin color. But I believe most did vote for him over his color.

I don't consider color as a factor when voting.

:laugh: That's Funny

Cigar
09-14-2015, 08:46 AM
https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/09/toles09142015.jpg


http://media.giphy.com/media/hDwYu8UEcUone/giphy.gif

Safety
09-14-2015, 08:47 AM
That's kinda what I just said, and considering the first black president was voted into office in consecutive terms kinda gives us an idea how the largest voting demographic is voting.

Yea, for liberals.

GrassrootsConservative
09-14-2015, 08:47 AM
It's not racist unless you're casting that vote because you believe that race is superior to all others.

I see so people that vote by race do so because.... what? If not because they think it's superior, why?

Green Arrow
09-14-2015, 08:49 AM
I see so people that vote by race do so because.... what? If not because they think it's superior, why?

I explained that already. They do it for the same reason people vote based on party or ideology. Someone who is racially just like you is more likely to represent your interests better than someone of a different race, because they understand your issues and life experiences better.

Cigar
09-14-2015, 08:49 AM
The one thing remaining Republicans haven't figured out how to control ...

What an individual Voter does in the Voting Booth :wink:

Green Arrow
09-14-2015, 08:50 AM
https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/09/toles09142015.jpg


http://media.giphy.com/media/hDwYu8UEcUone/giphy.gif

Post something intelligent to the topic or you're getting removed from this thread.

Captain Obvious
09-14-2015, 08:51 AM
Post something intelligent to the topic or you're getting removed from this thread.

Might as well ask him to create a time machine.

Safety
09-14-2015, 08:51 AM
The one thing remaining Republicans haven't figured out how to control ...

What an individual Voter does in the Voting Booth :wink:
Actually they have perfected the art of getting people to vote against them.

GrassrootsConservative
09-14-2015, 09:05 AM
I explained that already. They do it for the same reason people vote based on party or ideology. Someone who is racially just like you is more likely to represent your interests better than someone of a different race, because they understand your issues and life experiences better.

Oh I see. Well if that's your created generalization for people who vote based on race, no, that's not bad.

Chris
09-14-2015, 09:09 AM
My thought on this is I try not to discriminate by race, sex, orientation and the like when I talk to, work with, serve, help out, vote for, etc someone. If others do that's their business. I think there's probably some justification for such discrimination in the belief Green speaks of: "Someone who is racially just like you is more likely to represent your interests better than someone of a different race, because they understand your issues and life experiences better." Probably unconsciously we're all like that.

Green Arrow
09-14-2015, 09:16 AM
Oh I see. Well if that's your created generalization for people who vote based on race, no, that's not bad.

Created generalization? Whatever, dude.

Cigar
09-14-2015, 09:17 AM
Why is it bad to vote for someone based on their race?


Why do you claim it is bad? Blacks vote for the left accepting the lies told to them by the Democrats.

A couple questions ...

First ... Why do you care how Black People Vote?

Second ... simply based on what you see and read just on this forum, from what people disrespectfully here say about Black People, including you, why would a Black person ever what to Vote for a Conservative?

Chris
09-14-2015, 09:22 AM
A couple questions ...

First ... Why do you care how Black People Vote?

Second ... simply based on what you see and read just on this forum, from what people disrespectfully here say about Black People, including you, why would a Black person ever what to Vote for a Conservative?


Does people being disrespectful toward blacks make blacks or those people look bad? I think the latter. I wouldn't vote for such people either, though neither would I generalize it to all or only conservatives.

Cigar
09-14-2015, 09:23 AM
Post something intelligent to the topic or you're getting removed from this thread.

Yea .... I kinda agree, Trump is Embarrassing ... isn't he? :wink:

But hey, let's talk about who Black People Vote for, because that's ok. :grin:

Safety
09-14-2015, 09:25 AM
A couple questions ...

First ... Why do you care how Black People Vote?

Second ... simply based on what you see and read just on this forum, from what people disrespectfully here say about Black People, including you, why would a Black person ever what to Vote for a Conservative?

It does make one wonder...

Cigar
09-14-2015, 09:29 AM
Does people being disrespectful toward blacks make blacks or those people look bad? I think the latter. I wouldn't vote for such people either, though neither would I generalize it to all or only conservatives.

Sorry, Conservative Republican Politicians are getting exactly what they deserve. So don't expect any sympathy from me.

HINT: Look Up President Obama's Inauguration Night :wink:

Remember, Republicans "chose" to never work with this President even before he spent one night in the White House.

Safety
09-14-2015, 09:31 AM
Does people being disrespectful toward blacks make blacks or those people look bad? I think the latter. I wouldn't vote for such people either, though neither would I generalize it to all or only conservatives.

It depends on the environment in which what is said takes place. Plus, you have the ones who don't think it's disrespectful because they find truth in it.

Cigar
09-14-2015, 09:39 AM
Does people being disrespectful toward blacks make blacks or those people look bad? I think the latter. I wouldn't vote for such people either, though neither would I generalize it to all or only conservatives.

Come On Chris be honest ... you're on this Forum everyday and you know exactly what is said about Blacks ...

Give me one good reason why I or other 'Blaaaa People" should Vote Republican?

Chris
09-14-2015, 09:40 AM
It depends on the environment in which what is said takes place. Plus, you have the ones who don't think it's disrespectful because they find truth in it.

True, but like in real life there's not much you can do but speak out about it.

Peter1469
09-14-2015, 09:42 AM
Notice: Cigar thread banned by OP's request.

Chris
09-14-2015, 09:43 AM
Come On Chris be honest ... you're on this Forum everyday and you know exactly what is said about Blacks ...

Give me one good reason why I or other 'Blaaaa People" should Vote Republican?


I know some of what's said. I read maybe 10% of the threads, those that interest me. I can do something only about what I see, by reporting it myself and then it's up to the team of mods. So report it.

I don't vote Republican so can't think of any reason anyone does. Democrat too for that matter.

Private Pickle
09-14-2015, 10:26 AM
Yea, that hasn't happened yet, so sure.

Sure it has.

Green Arrow
09-14-2015, 11:15 AM
Sure it has.

Do you have anything substantive to contribute, or are you just being contrarian?

Private Pickle
09-14-2015, 11:25 AM
Do you have anything substantive to contribute, or are you just being contrarian?

Whats a substantive and why is it running away with my contrarian?

Peter1469
09-14-2015, 11:44 AM
Notice: Private Pickle thread banned at the OP's request.

Cletus
09-14-2015, 12:28 PM
A couple questions ...

First ... Why do you care how Black People Vote?

Because it has the potential to affect the course of the nation.


Second ... simply based on what you see and read just on this forum, from what people disrespectfully here say about Black People, including you, why would a Black person ever what to Vote for a Conservative?

I don't know... maybe he is smarter than average.

Bob
09-14-2015, 01:04 PM
My thought on this is I try not to discriminate by race, sex, orientation and the like when I talk to, work with, serve, help out, vote for, etc someone. If others do that's their business. I think there's probably some justification for such discrimination in the belief Green speaks of: "Someone who is racially just like you is more likely to represent your interests better than someone of a different race, because they understand your issues and life experiences better." Probably unconsciously we're all like that.

This seeks to prove that blacks and whites are so different one must support their own race.

This is not my belief. Though I see why blacks vote for blacks, it is highly bigoted to suppose a white can't represent their human needs. I stress human and not racial needs.

Common
09-14-2015, 01:07 PM
This seeks to prove that blacks and whites are so different one must support their own race.

This is not my belief. Though I see why blacks vote for blacks, it is highly bigoted to suppose a white can't represent their human needs. I stress human and not racial needs.

Bob the best way to explain it I believe is in this manner.

Blacks and whites have different interests as individuals and a group. Both groups vote for whats in their best interest. There are sub groups, like Liberals voting for abortion, gay anything, womens rights etc.

Blacks share many of the sub interests but when it comes to race issues of course they are going to vote in a block.

Bob
09-14-2015, 01:12 PM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Cigar http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=1254305#post1254305)
A couple questions ...

First ... Why do you care how Black People Vote?






http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by CletusBecause it has the potential to affect the course of the nation.



Second ... simply based on what you see and read just on this forum, from what people disrespectfully here say about Black People, including you, why would a Black person ever what to Vote for a Conservative?


I don't know... maybe he is smarter than average.

I was going to pass by since he lied about my position vis a vis blacks. The first person I mean, not Cletus.

The issue is voting by selection for race. Supposedly a talent such as Justice Thomas or an academic such as Thomas Sowell along with many other well informed blacks, are quite wrong to not select that way. Whites that don't select by race also have caused problems for the USA such as we ended up selecting Obama though his problem is not race, it is policy.

There are blacks I would vote for. But not all of them.

Bob
09-14-2015, 01:26 PM
Bob the best way to explain it I believe is in this manner.

Blacks and whites have different interests as individuals and a group. Both groups vote for whats in their best interest. There are sub groups, like Liberals voting for abortion, gay anything, womens rights etc.

Blacks share many of the sub interests but when it comes to race issues of course they are going to vote in a block.

Blacks are, as a voting block, voting against their own interests by voting for Democrats. A bit of proof for my remark lies in the way blacks today believe they were left out though they voted for Obama. Their unemployment rate leads the nation. The drop out rate is awful in schools. They can't progress by falling behind.

Chris
09-14-2015, 01:27 PM
This seeks to prove that blacks and whites are so different one must support their own race.

This is not my belief. Though I see why blacks vote for blacks, it is highly bigoted to suppose a white can't represent their human needs. I stress human and not racial needs.

Uh, no it does not. Nice interpretation though. Just not on target. So where'd it come from?

Bob
09-14-2015, 01:41 PM
Remember, Republicans "chose" to never work with this President even before he spent one night in the White House.

Democrats say this daily. They probably believe it. But it is FALSE.

Mitch McConnell was talking to the Journal and he outlined the problems of the republicans making it clear Obama had not worked in a bipartisan fashion. The ACA is proof that he snubbed republicans.

Hearings in both houses cut out republicans from the debates.

This comment was two years into the Obama dictatorship. Naturally we don't want him.

Green Arrow
09-14-2015, 01:42 PM
Bob one more time...post to the topic or start your own thread for your own topics.

Bob
09-14-2015, 01:42 PM
Uh, no it does not. Nice interpretation though. Just not on target. So where'd it come from?


I changed font color to make it clear what I am talking about. Do you want to reverse course and revoke your own words?

Chris
09-14-2015, 01:43 PM
I changed font color to make it clear what I am talking about. Do you want to reverse course and revoke your own words?

No, I want to stick to them and not follow you off the TB cliff.

Green Arrow
09-14-2015, 01:44 PM
For a reminder, the topic is the question in the title: Why is it bad to vote for someone based on their race?

If you don't believe it's bad, great. If you do, please explain why.

That's the topic.

Bob
09-14-2015, 01:46 PM
For a reminder, the topic is the question in the title: Why is it bad to vote for someone based on their race?

If you don't believe it's bad, great. If you do, please explain why.

That's the topic.

I am done by saying this.

I do not believe in voting for a race.

It is bad because the consequences lead to discrimination, bigotry and other bad results.

Done here.

Common
09-14-2015, 01:46 PM
Blacks are, as a voting block, voting against their own interests by voting for Democrats. A bit of proof for my remark lies in the way blacks today believe they were left out though they voted for Obama. Their unemployment rate leads the nation. The drop out rate is awful in schools. They can't progress by falling behind.

Thats your opinion Bob, if they choose to vote democrat because "they" believe its in their best interest, who am I to dispute that im just not qualified

Green Arrow
09-14-2015, 01:50 PM
I am done by saying this.

I do not believe in voting for a race.

It is bad because the consequences lead to discrimination, bigotry and other bad results.

Done here.

So, if I say to myself, I'm going to vote for this guy because he's had the same life experiences as me and understands my issues because of it, that vote will lead to discrimination, bigotry, and "other bad results"? Why?

Cletus
09-14-2015, 01:59 PM
So, if I say to myself, I'm going to vote for this guy because he's had the same life experiences as me and understands my issues because of it, that vote will lead to discrimination, bigotry, and "other bad results"? Why?

Because you are assuming that just because someone shares your racial characteristics, he has had the same life experiences and understands your issues. That is ridiculous.

Anyone who votes for a candidate based on anything other than the candidate's position on the issues that affect every member of constituency he will represent is being irresponsible. He may very well share some of your views on some issues, but to assume he does so because of the color of his skin is as racist as assuming he does not because of the color of his skin. Voting is more than a right. It is a RESPONSIBILITY.

Bob
09-14-2015, 02:00 PM
Thats your opinion Bob, if they choose to vote democrat because "they" believe its in their best interest, who am I to dispute that im just not qualified

That is how this works. You give your opinion and so do I. I come at this probably as different than most. I was a long term Democrat. I studied claims that democrats created the 64 civil rights act where it was discovered the party that shoved it into law was not Democrats, but republicans. Johnson did sign the law but for the most part, the head winds to stop the law came from Democrats. Blacks don't thank republicans to this very day for the civil rights law. They act against the party that actually helped them.

Next, I have spoken to dozens of blacks one on one on these issues. They end up telling me I explained things in a way they had never known before. My hope is to end their bigotry.

Chris
09-14-2015, 02:07 PM
Because you are assuming that just because someone shares your racial characteristics, he has had the same life experiences and understands your issues. That is ridiculous.

Anyone who votes for a candidate based on anything other than the candidate's position on the issues that affect every member of constituency he will represent is being irresponsible. He may very well share some of your views on some issues, but to assume he does so because of the color of his skin is as racist as assuming he does not because of the color of his skin. Voting is more than a right. It is a RESPONSIBILITY.


Because you are assuming that just because someone shares your racial characteristics, he has had the same life experiences and understands your issues. That is ridiculous.

I think that's just basic human nature.

People vote for all sorts of reasons.


Anyone who votes for a candidate based on anything other than the candidate's position...

I try to vote on a candidates principles. Those tell me what positions he'll likely take on future issues, or at least that he's principled in arriving at position I might even disagree with.

Safety
09-14-2015, 02:18 PM
That is how this works. You give your opinion and so do I. I come at this probably as different than most. I was a long term Democrat. I studied claims that democrats created the 64 civil rights act where it was discovered the party that shoved it into law was not Democrats, but republicans. Johnson did sign the law but for the most part, the head winds to stop the law came from Democrats. Blacks don't thank republicans to this very day for the civil rights law. They act against the party that actually helped them.

Next, I have spoken to dozens of blacks one on one on these issues. They end up telling me I explained things in a way they had never known before. My hope is to end their bigotry.

Sorry Green Arrow, but I have to respond to this, for someone passing along could see this misinformation and think that is what happened.

Bob....before 1964 the parties did not have a distinct label that they have today. It was not separated by "liberals and conservatives" like you see in 2015. The party "Republicans" were the party of Lincoln and many blacks were Republican during that time. Blacks were voted into office as Republican before Reconstruction, and afterwards some started to run in the Democratic party in the south. It wasn't until the passage of the CRA that drew the line in the sand as to which party was for liberals and which party was for conservatives.

This poster from 1868 showed the Democrats as being the party for whites...
http://www.blogslucianneloves.com/images/Threads/QLXKUSQIXC113355AM.jpg

You can thank Goldwater and his bid for the presidency for making people aware of how they should vote if they have a racial interest between the two parties. Let's not forget Scalise and his speech to a Supremist group http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/29/politics/steve-scalise-white-supremacist-group-speech/

All that is fine and dandy, but one thing you cannot argue against is the vote breakdown of the CRA in regards to geographical locations...does the North vs South ring any bells?


Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7–87 (7–93%)
Southern Republicans: 0–10 (0–100%)
Northern Democrats: 145–9 (94–6%)
Northern Republicans: 138–24 (85–15%)

The Senate version:
Southern Democrats: 1–20 (5–95%) (only Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)
Southern Republicans: 0–1 (0–100%) (John Tower of Texas)
Northern Democrats: 45–1 (98–2%) (only Robert Byrd of West Virginia voted against)
Northern Republicans: 27–5 (84–16%)


I've presented this to you in the past, but yet you still try to twist things around, but history doesn't agree with you. So please, if you don't like the way history turned out, then make your case why you think it is wrong, but don't try to change it.

Green Arrow
09-14-2015, 02:19 PM
Because you are assuming that just because someone shares your racial characteristics, he has had the same life experiences and understands your issues. That is ridiculous.

Is it? Is it really?

Chris
09-14-2015, 02:27 PM
Bob has been TBed by the OP.

Cletus
09-14-2015, 02:46 PM
I try to vote on a candidates principles. Those tell me what positions he'll likely take on future issues, or at least that he's principled in arriving at position I might even disagree with.

That is as it should be.

Chris
09-14-2015, 02:49 PM
That is as it should be.

But I think that's the opposite from voting for a candidate for the positions he has taken. IOW, I'm not so much interested in whether the candidate is pro-choice/-life but how he arrives at his position.

Cletus
09-14-2015, 02:52 PM
Is it? Is it really?

Yes.

How much do you think Obama has in common with some Black kid from __________________ (insert inner city of your choice)?

How much do you think Romney or Hillary Clinton have in common with some White kid on a farm in Kansas?

The very idea that people of the same race share the same experiences just because of their race is completely absurd. I do not know of anybody who can legitimately say they have shared my "life experiences" and therefore know what I think and feel about anything. There may be small parts on the trail where our paths have crossed, but no one can really say "I know what it is like to be you". If they do, they are lying and trying to use you. If you believe them, you are a fool and probably should not be allowed to vote.

Cletus
09-14-2015, 02:57 PM
But I think that's the opposite from voting for a candidate for the positions he has taken. IOW, I'm not so much interested in whether the candidate is pro-choice/-life but how he arrives at his position.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, assuming you believe the candidate arrived at his positions based on his principles. If you think he is just pandering to you, he should be dismissed. If a candidate is pro-choice and he is not just paying lip service to the idea, it should probably be safe to assume he is taking a principled position. It seems to me that evaluating his position on various issues would help you determine his core principles. It may not be the only factor in making that determination, but it should be a strong one.

Chris
09-14-2015, 03:01 PM
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, assuming you believe the candidate arrived at his positions based on his principles. If you think he is just pandering to you, he should be dismissed. If a candidate is pro-choice and he is not just paying lip service to the idea, it should probably be safe to assume he is taking a principled position. It seems to me that evaluating his position on various issues would help you determine his core principles. It may not be the only factor in making that determination, but it should be a strong one.

Yes, it's possible one implies the other. But did he arrive at his position simply because he's Republican or Democrat or black or while or male or female? That's not principled whereas arriving at a position because of a belief in rule of law or equality before law or egalitarianism, that's principled, even if I disagree.

The Xl
09-14-2015, 03:02 PM
Is it? Is it really?

It can be, even if it isn't necessarily the norm. I have more in common with my real life friends who are mostly all black or Hispanic than any white person on here. Everyone has different experiences and upbringings.

That said, if you're voting for someone who's black because you think he's in your corner, that's fine. If you're voting for someone because he's black despite said person demonstrating that he has no interest in your interests, that's a different matter entirely.

Cletus
09-14-2015, 03:03 PM
Yes, it's possible one implies the other. But did he arrive at his position simply because he's Republican or Democrat or black or while or male or female? That's not principled whereas arriving at a position because of a belief in rule of law or equality before law or egalitarianism, that's principled, even if I disagree.

I understand and agree with you. I could vote for a candidate who does not agree with me on all the issues as long as I believe he is sincere in his disagreement and it is based on a rational analysis of the issue and not just some knee jerk reaction.

Green Arrow
09-14-2015, 03:04 PM
Yes.

How much do you think Obama has in common with some Black kid from __________________ (insert inner city of your choice)?

How much do you think Romney or Hillary Clinton have in common with some White kid on a farm in Kansas?

The very idea that people of the same race share the same experiences just because of their race is completely absurd. I do not know of anybody who can legitimately say they have shared my "life experiences" and therefore know what I think and feel about anything. There may be small parts on the trail where our paths have crossed, but no one can really say "I know what it is like to be you". If they do, they are lying and trying to use you. If you believe them, you are a fool and probably should not be allowed to vote.

I didn't say that. What I did say is sound. More than likely, most of the people you encounter that share your race probably went through much the same circumstances as you. They probably think a lot like you and have similar influences to you. That's the whole point of homogenized culture, that's what it means. We share the same culture, so we're coming from the same places.

Romney and Clinton do not live the same life as the vast majority of white people. The vast majority of white people are middle class at best. Likewise, Obama was raised more by his white side of the family than the black side and never experienced a life of poverty, so he doesn't share the life experiences of the average black person. They are outliers, outliers don't disprove the point that our cultures as far as race goes are still pretty homogenized.

Safety
09-14-2015, 03:04 PM
Yes.

How much do you think Obama has in common with some Black kid from __________________ (insert inner city of your choice)?

How much do you think Romney or Hillary Clinton have in common with some White kid on a farm in Kansas?

The very idea that people of the same race share the same experiences just because of their race is completely absurd. I do not know of anybody who can legitimately say they have shared my "life experiences" and therefore know what I think and feel about anything. There may be small parts on the trail where our paths have crossed, but no one can really say "I know what it is like to be you". If they do, they are lying and trying to use you. If you believe them, you are a fool and probably should not be allowed to vote.

Actually, it can happen, and it did. Why do you think Johnson received the percentage of black votes he did in '64?

Chris
09-14-2015, 03:14 PM
I understand and agree with you. I could vote for a candidate who does not agree with me on all the issues as long as I believe he is sincere in his disagreement and it is based on a rational analysis of the issue and not just some knee jerk reaction.

Keep in mind all that is said from a reasoned perspective. I like to think I'm reasonable. But no one always is, and maybe rarely is.

Mister D
09-14-2015, 05:11 PM
It can be, even if it isn't necessarily the norm. I have more in common with my real life friends who are mostly all black or Hispanic than any white person on here. Everyone has different experiences and upbringings.

That said, if you're voting for someone who's black because you think he's in your corner, that's fine. If you're voting for someone because he's black despite said person demonstrating that he has no interest in your interests, that's a different matter entirely.

Locally, that can be safely assumed. Pols have a reputation and will often make racial appeals. That's common enough in the south (if left unspoken) and incr3easingly so in parts of CA that used to be majority black but are now filling up with Mexican mestizos. Local elections (whether for mayor, school board etc.) are racial headcounts.

rembrant
09-26-2015, 10:23 PM
Republicans constantly criticize blacks for voting for Obama because he was black. Why is that a bad thing? Would someone like @Mac-7 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1014) vote for an atheist?

I think it's natural to vote for someone that is similar to us. Mormons supported Romney because he was Mormon. Lots of conservative Christians vote for Christian candidates. Some whites vote for white candidates.
Sure. If I am Black.. I will want to break that barrier, elect Obama, and if Female..Jewish, it's similar. I am a HERETIC, so.. if anyone runs as a HERETIC....that woulds be a plus. Nobody likes to be automatically excluded. While I am a White Male.. I do NOT think only White Males can Run our nation. America is a team sport. Everyone is in it. I probably ought to be President.. but I really do not want the hassles.