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Peter1469
09-17-2015, 04:50 PM
The IRS had its budget slashed for screwing with conservative groups.

Looks like it may get another budget slash (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GOP_2016_TRUMP_FOREIGN_POLICY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-09-16-17-32-17)- but that is a great thing.


WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Internal Revenue Service revoked the nonprofit status of the veterans benefit organization that hosted and sold tickets to a foreign policy speech by Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump aboard a retired U.S. battleship, The Associated Press has learned. The group's endorsement of Trump at the event also could raise legal problems under campaign finance laws.

whatukno
09-17-2015, 04:57 PM
Conservatives listen, you cannot gain a profit running a non profit business. That is the reason behind the Not for profit tax exemption. You take in more than you shell out, you make a profit, and therefore aren't a not for profit business.

How hard is that to comprehend?

Common Sense
09-17-2015, 04:58 PM
Conservatives listen, you cannot gain a profit running a non profit business. That is the reason behind the Not for profit tax exemption. You take in more than you shell out, you make a profit, and therefore aren't a not for profit business.

How hard is that to comprehend?

It's not that exactly. Their non profit status probably prohibits them from political activity.

whatukno
09-17-2015, 05:03 PM
It's not that exactly. Their non profit status probably prohibits them from political activity.

It depends directly on what class of 501 licence they have, some may have political activities, some can't the easier of which is precluded from having any political activities whatsoever, so you may be right.

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 05:19 PM
The IRS will lose more funding.

Good.

Howey
09-17-2015, 05:23 PM
The IRS will lose more funding.

Good.

How does revoking tax exempt status cause the IRS to lose money?

whatukno
09-17-2015, 05:26 PM
How does revoking tax exempt status cause the IRS to lose money?

Republicans making a stink that their sham not for profits get busted.

Mac-7
09-17-2015, 05:40 PM
Conservatives listen, you cannot gain a profit running a non profit business. That is the reason behind the Not for profit tax exemption. You take in more than you shell out, you make a profit, and therefore aren't a not for profit business.

How hard is that to comprehend?

They were just offsetting the cost of the event.

The way planned parenthood sells infant body parts.

Only the baby killers use the money to buy Lamborghini sports cars.

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 05:46 PM
How does revoking tax exempt status cause the IRS to lose money?

Last year the Congress defunded the IRS by a significant percentage as punishment for its treatment of conservative PACs. A bipartisan vote, which is why the MSM glossed over it.

More defunding on the way, imo.

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 05:47 PM
Republicans making a stink that their sham not for profits get busted.

bipartisan

the (D)s have their shams too. :wink:

whatukno
09-17-2015, 05:52 PM
bipartisan

the (D)s have their shams too. :wink:

Okay, bring them to light. Not the bullshit scandals that the GOP concocts like what they did to ACORN where they lied outright, and through those lies took down a beneficial grassroots liberal organization before the reality was brought to light. I am talking reality. Please. Bring those organizations to light.

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 05:54 PM
Okay, bring them to light. Not the bullshit scandals that the GOP concocts like what they did to ACORN where they lied outright, and through those lies took down a beneficial grassroots liberal organization before the reality was brought to light. I am talking reality. Please. Bring those organizations to light.

I make too much money to be a secretary.

The vote to cut the IRS budget was bipartisan. $350M.

Now they are going to get more cuts.

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 05:55 PM
ACORN was a real scandal.

whatukno
09-17-2015, 05:55 PM
They were just offsetting the cost of the event.


Offsetting the cost of the event, is expected for a not for profit. You can do that legally, you can't make a profit, and if your not for profit licence does not include political endorsements, you can't include them.

Here's a good start on 501 laws.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/501

whatukno
09-17-2015, 05:57 PM
ACORN was a real scandal.

No it wasn't.

The heavily edited and falsified video that was released by Breitbart.com soured public opinion, it was only after they lost their funding that the reality of the fraudulent video was exposed.

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 05:58 PM
Offsetting the cost of the event, is expected for a not for profit. You can do that legally, you can't make a profit, and if your not for profit licence does not include political endorsements, you can't include them.

Here's a good start on 501 laws.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/501

Both parties violate those rules constantly. The IRS will lose - again.

whatukno
09-17-2015, 05:58 PM
I make too much money to be a secretary.

The vote to cut the IRS budget was bipartisan. $350M.

Now they are going to get more cuts.

Now you assume they are going to get more cuts.

whatukno
09-17-2015, 05:58 PM
Both parties violate those rules constantly. The IRS will lose - again.

No, Republican groups violate those rules constantly, it's not a bipartisan problem.

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 05:59 PM
No it wasn't.

The heavily edited and falsified video that was released by Breitbart.com soured public opinion, it was only after they lost their funding that the reality of the fraudulent video was exposed.

That is a silly interpretation. It was heavily edited, but nothing shown was made up..., those ACORN workers weren't paid to say what they said on tape.

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 05:59 PM
No, Republican groups violate those rules constantly, it's not a bipartisan problem.


Nonsense.

whatukno
09-17-2015, 06:00 PM
I make too much money to be a secretary.

The vote to cut the IRS budget was bipartisan. $350M.

Now they are going to get more cuts.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 06:01 PM
Now you assume they are going to get more cuts.

Yes, that is my opinion. I don't have a crystal ball. But I do have the past. Last year the Congress cut the IRS budget by over $350M as punishment and there was no stink about it. Why is that? MSM mum for once?

whatukno
09-17-2015, 06:01 PM
Nonsense.

Prove me wrong, back it up with substantial facts.

whatukno
09-17-2015, 06:02 PM
Yes, that is my opinion. I don't have a crystal ball. But I do have the past. Last year the Congress cut the IRS budget by over $350M as punishment and there was no stink about it. Why is that? MSM mum for once?

Past performance is not indicative of future returns.

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 06:03 PM
Prove me wrong, back it up with substantial facts.

Why?

I have no concern whatsoever that you are living in reality. Continue as you are.

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 06:04 PM
Past performance is not indicative of future returns.

I am not buying a stock. I am predicting what Congress is going to do.

whatukno
09-17-2015, 06:05 PM
Why?

I have no concern whatsoever that you are living in reality. Continue as you are.

That's the problem, assumption rules, without facts to base it on. Facts are required in the courtroom, in this information age, it should be more so. We have the tools at our disposal to research ourselves the facts of the matter, to not use them and to assume is our own fault.

whatukno
09-17-2015, 06:08 PM
I am not buying a stock. I am predicting what Congress is going to do.

The people demand the facts be presented, if you cannot state that this is a bipartisan problem, than my argument stands that this is a singularly republican problem. The IRS should not be held accountable for the misrepresentation of a republican group. In fact, they should be held accountable and be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Why should the IRS lose funding over a not for profit's maleficence?

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 06:23 PM
That's the problem, assumption rules, without facts to base it on. Facts are required in the courtroom, in this information age, it should be more so. We have the tools at our disposal to research ourselves the facts of the matter, to not use them and to assume is our own fault.

This is a discussion board. I am discussing something that interests me.

When I go to court for my job, I spend ~20 hours for every 1 hour of court time. But I get paid for that.

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 06:24 PM
The people demand the facts be presented, if you cannot state that this is a bipartisan problem, than my argument stands that this is a singularly republican problem. The IRS should not be held accountable for the misrepresentation of a republican group. In fact, they should be held accountable and be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Why should the IRS lose funding over a not for profit's maleficence?

It is silly to claim that it isn't bipartisan.

whatukno
09-17-2015, 06:29 PM
This is a discussion board. I am discussing something that interests me.

When I go to court for my job, I spend ~20 hours for every 1 hour of court time. But I get paid for that.

In this information age, of course you are free to discuss something that is of interest to you. All I am here to do, is interject some rationality to some assumptions that you make.

Like why should the IRS suffer a budget cut, because a conservative group broke the law? What is your rationale for the IRS getting a budget cut, when a conservative group has gone beyond the scope of their tax exempt status?

Please, explain. In rational detail, with links to the appropriate laws, the proof that your argument is correct.

whatukno
09-17-2015, 06:30 PM
It is silly to claim that it isn't bipartisan.

Prove that it is.

domer76
09-17-2015, 06:30 PM
Last year the Congress defunded the IRS by a significant percentage as punishment for its treatment of conservative PACs. A bipartisan vote, which is why the MSM glossed over it.

More defunding on the way, imo.

Just opens the door for more fraud, which those conservative 501c3s were doing anyway.

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 06:31 PM
In this information age, of course you are free to discuss something that is of interest to you. All I am here to do, is interject some rationality to some assumptions that you make.

Like why should the IRS suffer a budget cut, because a conservative group broke the law? What is your rationale for the IRS getting a budget cut, when a conservative group has gone beyond the scope of their tax exempt status?

Please, explain. In rational detail, with links to the appropriate laws, the proof that your argument is correct.

I explained it to you previously.

Congress passed funding for last year- yes or no? Yes
That funding included a $350+M decrease for the IRS- Yes
Did anyone make a stink about it? No.

Think instead of bucket carry.

whatukno
09-17-2015, 06:41 PM
I explained it to you previously.

Congress passed funding for last year- yes or no? Yes
That funding included a $350+M decrease for the IRS- Yes
Did anyone make a stink about it? No.

Think instead of bucket carry.

Ok, that's fine. but why do you think that this singular instance will further decrease the IRS budget?

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 07:02 PM
Ok, that's fine. but why do you think that this singular instance will further decrease the IRS budget?

For the same reason it did last year. And this is a Veterans group. Much more sympathetic than Tea Party(ies) groups.

Not a peep was heard.... :wink:

whatukno
09-17-2015, 07:44 PM
For the same reason it did last year. And this is a Veterans group. Much more sympathetic than Tea Party(ies) groups.

Not a peep was heard.... :wink:

Uh huh, so no real reason other than, it was a conservative group that broke the law and conservatives will be up in arms about them losing their tax exempt status?

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 07:49 PM
Uh huh, so no real reason other than, it was a conservative group that broke the law and conservatives will be up in arms about them losing their tax exempt status?

No. Keep up and stop asking the same crap over and over.

del
09-17-2015, 08:14 PM
lol

whatukno
09-17-2015, 08:15 PM
No. Keep up and stop asking the same crap over and over.

I keep asking because you keep dodging.

Peter1469
09-17-2015, 08:19 PM
lol

Howey
09-17-2015, 08:29 PM
bucket carry.

Tired meme.

However, Congress' spiteful and childish cuts to the IRS affects not only the normal middle class tax payers looking fop, they aid theft and tax evasion from their cronies, reducing the income generation of the government . But, hey, let's punish them! That'll show em! And they wonder why their approval rating is in single digits.

http://fortune.com/2015/04/15/irs-budget-cuts/

The cuts to the Internal Revenue Service’s budget are deeper than most people think. The author describes some of the insidious effects they will have, which have gone overlooked.

This article was originally published on*The Conversation.*The author,*Bryan Camp,*is a professor of tax law at*Texas Tech University

The Internal Revenue Service takes a lot of hits, both from those who are paid to be critics like the National Taxpayer Advocate and from those who just pile on for the fun of it – politicians, pundits and the public.

The nastiest hit has come from Congress in the form of relentless budget cuts for the past five years. While there has been a fair bit of commentary on the effect of these cuts, commentators have missed two important points: (1) the cuts are deeper than most people think, and (2) their effect is both more subtle and insidious.

As the*procrastinators*among us prepare their*last-minute returns*and suffer long waits on hold with the IRS, it’s a good time to consider each one – since they mean the waits will get longer and the potential for bad stuff to happen will increase.

Howey
09-17-2015, 08:32 PM
Cont...read and weep, bucket carriers!

As for the numbers, most articles on this fiscal year’s IRS budget have noted that the*appropriation*of US$10.9 billion represents a cut of more than $1.2 billion compared with five years ago, and that is not even accounting for inflation. If one considers the decreasing value of the dollar to buy goods and services, this year’s budget*represents*an effective 18% drop from fiscal year 2010, or $2.2 billion.

Those numbers are true enough, but understate the hit. A more meaningful number would be $7.3 billion.

That is, if Congress had simply kept IRS funding stable at the FY10 level, adjusting only to keep pace with inflation, the total appropriations for the subsequent five-year period, 2011-2015, would have been about $64.6 billion. Instead, Congress has given the IRS a total of $57.3 billion from FY11 to FY15.

It’s almost like Congress gave itself a “buy five years, get one free” discount. Even President Barack Obama’s*proposed FY16 budget*asking for an additional $2 billion over the current year doesn’t get back half of the five years in lost funding.

Back when IRS was fully staffed, anyway.

What’s our starting point

That raises the question, should FY10 be the baseline? During a February 3 hearing, Senator Orrin Hatch*complained*to IRS Commissioner John Koskinen, “Your budget fluctuations look a little less dramatic when we don’t use 2010 as the baseline.”

True enough, but the emphasis there must be on “a little less.” One has to dial the time machine back to 1998 to find the last year that Congress gave the IRS as*little money*as it did for FY15. Over the same period, the number of additional taxpayers the agency must help and oversee grew by some 16 million.

More tellingly, however, are the numbers for “information returns,” forms like the W-2 and the 1099 that the IRS uses to match against taxpayer returns. In FY98, the service received and processed more than 1 billion information returns. Yeah. That’s a lot. But by FY2013, the IRS had to deal with double that number: almost 2.1 billion information returns.

Howey
09-17-2015, 08:33 PM
I'd rather be a bucket carrier for the American people than a do nothing Congress.

Bob
09-17-2015, 08:34 PM
It depends directly on what class of 501 licence they have, some may have political activities, some can't the easier of which is precluded from having any political activities whatsoever, so you may be right.

Obama can't find e mails taking months. Lerner can't locate hers either. But the Obama can clamp down on some non profit a day after the event?

My lord. Such transparency.

whatukno
09-17-2015, 08:40 PM
Obama can't find e mails taking months. Lerner can't locate hers either. But the Obama can clamp down on some non profit a day after the event?

My lord. Such transparency.

Uh huh, cry me a river.

Redrose
09-17-2015, 08:43 PM
Nonsense.

He should change his name to 'Hedontkno'

Bob
09-17-2015, 08:46 PM
The IRS had its budget slashed for screwing with conservative groups.

Looks like it may get another budget slash (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GOP_2016_TRUMP_FOREIGN_POLICY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-09-16-17-32-17)- but that is a great thing.

The IRS did it long before the Trump rally. This took place August 10.


Trump's campaign did not respond to questions from the AP about whether it was aware that the IRS had revoked the nonprofit status of the Veterans for a Strong America, which sold tickets to Trump's event for up to $1,000 as a fundraiser. The IRS issued its decision Aug. 10, citing the group's failure to file any tax returns for three consecutive years, according to IRS records reviewed by the AP.
The group's chairman, Joel Arends of Sioux Falls, South Dakota, said the organization was appealing the IRS decision. He would not provide AP with copies of any tax returns, which would show how much money the group has collected over the years and how it spends its money. By law, such records are supposed to be available to the general public for inspection.
"We disagree with the IRS determination letter," Arends told the AP in an interview. He appeared alongside Trump on Tuesday night on the ship.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GOP_2016_TRUMP_FOREIGN_POLICY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-09-16-17-32-17

Howey
09-17-2015, 08:51 PM
Wow. Bob slap fact checked Peter1469!

del
09-17-2015, 09:27 PM
i wonder why they won't give up their tax returns for inspection?

probably went to public schools

zelmo1234
09-17-2015, 09:36 PM
Conservatives listen, you cannot gain a profit running a non profit business. That is the reason behind the Not for profit tax exemption. You take in more than you shell out, you make a profit, and therefore aren't a not for profit business.

How hard is that to comprehend?

Actually you can turn a profit you just can't use if for personal gain. But many if not most non profits have growing financial statements .

zelmo1234
09-17-2015, 09:41 PM
I actually like the fact that noting has been done about using the IRS as weapon against your political enemies.

Sooner or later the GOP will take back the WH and lying on your taxes is a liberal badge of honor.

Mac-7
09-18-2015, 07:12 AM
I actually like the fact that noting has been done about using the IRS as weapon against your political enemies.

Sooner or later the GOP will take back the WH and lying on your taxes is a liberal badge of honor.

You have pointed out something I've been telling clueless lefties for years.

Specifically, any game liberals can think up conservatives can learn to play.

And sooner of later we will have the executive branch in our hands again.

domer76
09-18-2015, 08:10 AM
You have pointed out something I've been telling clueless lefties for years.

Specifically, any game liberals can think up conservatives can learn to play.

And sooner of later we will have the executive branch in our hands again.

Count on 'later'.

Lineman
09-19-2015, 10:34 PM
Maybe Palin can jump in the race. CONS already have several heros who are kapoot and dont know it yet.

Walker
Graham
Hockerbee
Bush
Rubio
Trump

Its a clown car with a blown head gasket.

Peter1469
09-20-2015, 02:33 AM
Maybe Palin can jump in the race. CONS already have several heros who are kapoot and dont know it yet.

Walker
Graham
Hockerbee
Bush
Rubio
Trump

Its a clown car with a blown head gasket.

Clown car? The socialist and the harpy/criminal make a nice clown car.