The stupidity of war mongers

[iustitia]

Well, it's certainly a worthless piece of sand, when the Taliban first came to power in Afghanistan it didn't seem that reality could change our world. Nor of the worlds of the sound asleep Credits nor Private Pickle.

Embassies attacked, we slept. The USS Cole attacked, we snoozed. September 11, 2001 gets here....... all of the sudden Afghanistan is front row seats in pit national security threats. Today...... ewe rocket scientists consider it once again, a worthless piece of sand.

Full circle cluelessness?


Why are neocons so willfully stupid on matters of blowback? It's not like they're politicians who need to bullshit their way to war by convincing people there's a threat when they themselves know there isn't. These are citizens that hear the facts, wave them off, and continue repeating lies. I've confronted the quoted poster several times about the bolded attacks and developments. Nope, isolationist lies.

For the record:

May 14, 1948
The Provisional Government of Israel proclaimed the new State of Israel. On that same date the United States, in the person of President Truman, recognized the provisional Jewish government as de facto authority of the new Jewish state. The US and Israel would make an entangling alliance ever since.

August 15, 1953
Operation Ajax, CIA-backed coup detat in Iran for Anglo-Iranian Oil (British Petroleum), Standard Oil of New Jersey, Standard Oil of NY/Socony-Vacuum (Mobil-Standard Oil of California), Gulf, and Texaco.

January 1978
Demonstrations intensify in Iran as the Iranian Revolution begins against their dictator the Shah (installed with the aid of the US and British in Operation Ajax in 1953).

January 16, 1979
The CIA fails to predict the fall of the Shah of Iran, a longtime CIA puppet, and the rise of Muslim fundamentalists who are furious at the CIA’s backing of SAVAK, the Shah’s bloodthirsty secret police. In revenge, the Muslims take 52 Americans hostage in the U.S. embassy in Tehran. Blowback.

July 3, 1979
Operation Cyclone, CIA-backed arming and training of Islamist insurgents in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. Like the Shah in Iran, Afghanistan's dictator prior to Soviet invasion allowed CIA radar installations to monitor the USSR.

August 21, 1982
United States involvement in the Multinational Force in Lebanon is announced by Reagan. Once again the US occupies Lebanon for "stability".

April 18, 1983
United States Embassy Bombing in Lebanon by suicide bomber. Another example of blowback from Muslims pissed off at US foreign policy.

September 29, 1983
Again, US forces return to Lebanon after Congress passed the Multinational Force in Lebanon Resolution. US forces are repeatedly targeted.

October 23, 1983
Beirut Barracks Bombings in Lebanon against MNF forces killing 299 Americans. Another example of blowback from Muslims pissed off at the stationing of US troops in the Middle East. Reagan decides to pull out of Lebanon and instead of learning from this we invade the harmless island of Grenada for no reason.

April 5, 1986
Berlin discotheque bombing which kills two American soldiers. Libya is blamed by Reagan despite no trial of any suspect until 2001.

April 15, 1986
Operation El Dorado Canyon, US bombing of Libya in reaction to the 1986 Berlin discotheque bombing. Again, no trial of suspects until 2001. Failed attempt to kill Gaddafi.

December 21, 1988
Pan Am Flight 103 bombing in Lockerbie, Scotland. Another example of blowback against US foreign policy, Libyan nationals bombed in reaction to Reagan's bombing of Libya in 1986.

August 2, 1990
Persian Gulf War, instigated by the CIA. US Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie encouraged Saddam to invade Kuwait who was slant-drilling into Iraq making billions of dollars off Iraqi oil. Back in 1989, CIA Director William Webster told Kuwaiti leadership to take advantage of Iraq's bad economy and push them, and a CIA-linked think tank simultaneously told Saddam to push Kuwait. Even earlier Bush authorized billions of dollars of illegal arms sales to Saddam. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, the US then fabricated war atrocities (like when the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador gave fake testimony in front of Congress under the name 'Nayirah' and claimed Iraqi troops were ripping Kuwaiti babies from incubators). Saddam was willing to agree to UN demands, and the US wouldn't have it or peace.

August 6, 1990
The sanctioning of Iraq. In less than a decade the combination of sanctions, embargoes and no-fly zones against Iraq would result in half a million dead Iraqi children, destroyed infrastructure, the fall of living standards and a crushing effect on Iraq's economy.

August 7, 1990
As a part of Operation Desert Shield during the Gulf War, US forces would be sent to Saudi Arabia and would occupy it until 2003.

February 26, 1993
World Trade Center bombing in America (which the FBI totally allowed to happen and then blamed on their Muslim informant), carried out by the likes of Sheik Abdel Rahman, a veteran of the US-backed war in Afghanistan. Attack is due to US support of Israel, blowback.

August 8, 1998
Embassy Bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. Another example of blowback against US foreign policy, the bombers blamed US sanctions on Iraq as their motivation for the attacks.

October 12, 2000
USS Cole Bombing, at Aden, Yemen. Another instance of blowback against US foreign policy, a branch of al-Qaeda bombed a US ship in reaction to US creation of intelligence facilities in Yemen.

September 11, 2001
Al-Qaeda and bin Laden cited U.S. support of Israel, the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, and sanctions against Iraq as motives. Fucking blowback. The United States responded by invading Afghanistan, Somalia, the Philippines, Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan, Syria, and fucking West Africa.

Clearly the problem is that America minds its own business too much.

[Cigar]

We never learn ...

War Mongers always like to show their Big Balls by sending someone else kids off to War to die.

[The Xl]

/Thread. Post this every time a warmonger says something stupid, please.

[Mac-7]

Why are neocons so willfully stupid on matters of blowback? It's not like they're politicians who need to bull$#@! their way to war by convincing people there's a threat when they themselves know there isn't. These are citizens that hear the facts, wave them off, and continue repeating lies. I've confronted the quoted poster several times about the bolded attacks and developments. Nope, isolationist lies.

For the record:

May 14, 1948
The Provisional Government of Israel proclaimed the new State of Israel. On that same date the United States, in the person of President Truman, recognized the provisional Jewish government as de facto authority of the new Jewish state. The US and Israel would make an entangling alliance ever since.

August 15, 1953
Operation Ajax, CIA-backed coup detat in Iran for Anglo-Iranian Oil (British Petroleum), Standard Oil of New Jersey, Standard Oil of NY/Socony-Vacuum (Mobil-Standard Oil of California), Gulf, and Texaco.

January 1978
Demonstrations intensify in Iran as the Iranian Revolution begins against their dictator the Shah (installed with the aid of the US and British in Operation Ajax in 1953).

January 16, 1979
The CIA fails to predict the fall of the Shah of Iran, a longtime CIA puppet, and the rise of Muslim fundamentalists who are furious at the CIA’s backing of SAVAK, the Shah’s bloodthirsty secret police. In revenge, the Muslims take 52 Americans hostage in the U.S. embassy in Tehran. Blowback.

July 3, 1979
Operation Cyclone, CIA-backed arming and training of Islamist insurgents in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. Like the Shah in Iran, Afghanistan's dictator prior to Soviet invasion allowed CIA radar installations to monitor the USSR.

August 21, 1982
United States involvement in the Multinational Force in Lebanon is announced by Reagan. Once again the US occupies Lebanon for "stability".

April 18, 1983
United States Embassy Bombing in Lebanon by suicide bomber. Another example of blowback from Muslims pissed off at US foreign policy.

September 29, 1983
Again, US forces return to Lebanon after Congress passed the Multinational Force in Lebanon Resolution. US forces are repeatedly targeted.

October 23, 1983
Beirut Barracks Bombings in Lebanon against MNF forces killing 299 Americans. Another example of blowback from Muslims pissed off at the stationing of US troops in the Middle East. Reagan decides to pull out of Lebanon and instead of learning from this we invade the harmless island of Grenada for no reason.

April 5, 1986
Berlin discotheque bombing which kills two American soldiers. Libya is blamed by Reagan despite no trial of any suspect until 2001.

April 15, 1986
Operation El Dorado Canyon, US bombing of Libya in reaction to the 1986 Berlin discotheque bombing. Again, no trial of suspects until 2001. Failed attempt to kill Gaddafi.

December 21, 1988
Pan Am Flight 103 bombing in Lockerbie, Scotland. Another example of blowback against US foreign policy, Libyan nationals bombed in reaction to Reagan's bombing of Libya in 1986.

August 2, 1990
Persian Gulf War, instigated by the CIA. US Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie encouraged Saddam to invade Kuwait who was slant-drilling into Iraq making billions of dollars off Iraqi oil. Back in 1989, CIA Director William Webster told Kuwaiti leadership to take advantage of Iraq's bad economy and push them, and a CIA-linked think tank simultaneously told Saddam to push Kuwait. Even earlier Bush authorized billions of dollars of illegal arms sales to Saddam. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, the US then fabricated war atrocities (like when the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador gave fake testimony in front of Congress under the name 'Nayirah' and claimed Iraqi troops were ripping Kuwaiti babies from incubators). Saddam was willing to agree to UN demands, and the US wouldn't have it or peace.

August 6, 1990
The sanctioning of Iraq. In less than a decade the combination of sanctions, embargoes and no-fly zones against Iraq would result in half a million dead Iraqi children, destroyed infrastructure, the fall of living standards and a crushing effect on Iraq's economy.

August 7, 1990
As a part of Operation Desert Shield during the Gulf War, US forces would be sent to Saudi Arabia and would occupy it until 2003.

February 26, 1993
World Trade Center bombing in America (which the FBI totally allowed to happen and then blamed on their Muslim informant), carried out by the likes of Sheik Abdel Rahman, a veteran of the US-backed war in Afghanistan. Attack is due to US support of Israel, blowback.

August 8, 1998
Embassy Bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. Another example of blowback against US foreign policy, the bombers blamed US sanctions on Iraq as their motivation for the attacks.

October 12, 2000
USS Cole Bombing, at Aden, Yemen. Another instance of blowback against US foreign policy, a branch of al-Qaeda bombed a US ship in reaction to US creation of intelligence facilities in Yemen.

September 11, 2001
Al-Qaeda and bin Laden cited U.S. support of Israel, the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, and sanctions against Iraq as motives. $#@!ing blowback. The United States responded by invading Afghanistan, Somalia, the Philippines, Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan, Syria, and $#@!ing West Africa.

Clearly the problem is that America minds its own business too much.

I could Google the exact dates but its not that important but there are other notable dates in history involving war.

In the mid to late 1930's fascist Italy invaded Ethopia.

The king of Ethopia begged the League of Nations for help and was ignored.

Not our business you say?

At about the same time fascist Japan invaded China.

Again did pacifist/isolationist libs care?

Hell no.

Germany invaded Czechovakia and Britian grovelled to Hitler.

Then Germany invaded Poland and WWII was officislly begun.

But it really began 10 years earlier when the first pacifist/isolationist lib said they didnt give a damn.

[iustitia]

How many fucking times do I have to rebut the historically false lie that the Axis Powers were a threat to America, Mac? How many? No really, how many times are you going to need to be corrected about Germany and Japan? And wow, really? You think fucking Mussolini, who got his ass kicked by the Greeks, was a threat to America?

You are retarded.

[Common]

This country should have had a bellyfull of war long ago. Truth is corporate america loves it, they make lots of money off it.

[iustitia]

Hitler had no qualms with America and purposely ordered his forces not to attack American ships so as not to have a repeat of WWI. Despite the fact that FDR intentionally attacked Germany in every way since before his election. FDR was a corporate whore who profited from speculating during Germany's period of hyper-inflation after WWI. He even founded a corporation called the United European Investors that was composed almost entirely of the same plutocrats that destroyed Germany's economy in the first place.

FDR targeted Germany in stump speeches in the early 30's. FDR interfered in European negotiations before WWII started and encouraged Poland to antagonize Germany which led to the invasion. Hitler of course didn't start WWII, that was our Allies, Britain and France. Worth noting is that like his predecessors Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson, FDR was a Morgan man. The Morgans had interest in another war against Germany which brought them lots of wealth in WWI.

FDR targeted German ships in the Atlantic, ignored the laws of war, froze German assets and wealth, acted outside of his constitutional powers to attack and provoke conflict with Germany, armed and funded Germany's enemies, and lied America into war with Germany by blaming Pearl Harbor on Hitler who had nothing to do with it.

Oh but America's problem was that it minded its own business too much. Are you daft?

[iustitia]

As for Japan?

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/29832-Did-FDR-push-Japan-into-attacking

FDR was doing backflips to get America into the Pacific. America considered China its roaming grounds, and FDR reversed US policy of encouraging Japanese militarism started by his whore cousin Theodore Roosevelt. Japan was taking our shit in China. It was our oil and our markets.

Oh but Pearl Harbor, a suicidal attack on an enemy 10x stronger than Japan, was totally unprovoked and America was minding its own business.

It's sad that people like you exist, Mac. Because you actually believe America is a vanguard of nations beating up bullies, when in fact the US has never fought other states on equal terms and historically played the part of a predator snuffing out weaker nations. Germany and Japan weren't nice, but they weren't threats to America and we sure as shit weren't going to war out of altruism.

[Ransom]

As for Japan?

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/29832-Did-FDR-push-Japan-into-attacking

FDR was doing backflips to get America into the Pacific. America considered China its roaming grounds, and FDR reversed US policy of encouraging Japanese militarism started by his $#@! cousin Theodore Roosevelt. Japan was taking our $#@! in China. It was our oil and our markets.

Oh but Pearl Harbor, a suicidal attack on an enemy 10x stronger than Japan, was totally unprovoked and America was minding its own business.

It's sad that people like you exist, Mac. Because you actually believe America is a vanguard of nations beating up bullies, when in fact the US has never fought other states on equal terms and historically played the part of a predator snuffing out weaker nations. Germany and Japan weren't nice, but they weren't threats to America and we sure as $#@! weren't going to war out of altruism.
I'll respond to this post rather than the longer idiocy to begin this hit piece. I'll start by asking if...

We were the predator nation in 1812? Or WW1? So easily to expose who the actual retard is.

Those ignorant of history... who give us examples beginning the year they were born. The death of Mohammed sees the meteoric rise of Islam, these blowback arguments have existed since the days of the great Charles Martel. The Hammer himself. It is an absolute fact that Islam has been at war with both Christian and Jewish States, other factions of Islam, at war with each and every neighbor they've ever had. There is a reason northern Africa is Muslim. A reason Istanbul once the Eastern Christian Capital is now governed by Muslims. Thomas Jefferson's presidency began where the Ottomans still demanded indemnities to sail and trade the Med. Your first example of 'blowback' perhaps?

The US didn't set up the Israeli State unilaterally. The British lost more men on the first day of the Somme than America had in it's entire pre WW1 army. Most men were lost during our civil war, did we predator ourselves in that conflict.

I'm the neocon warmonger who teaches blowback. Rather than your guess that the USS Cole was attacked because America had Intel facilities in Yemen, the USS Cole.... just to show you who the actual clueless moron is here.... was engaged in blockade operations against Iraq when it was attacked, the blowback was Iraq.... not Yemen.

Blowback always the excuse, American intervention blamed time and again. The Jewish State, the Shah of Iran...... this all began following the disintegration of the Ottoman Empire following WW1. The Great War that extended into WW2 and the creation of a safe haven for Jews. But of course..... without a shred of knowledge of history, without taking into account that Empires and dictators and governments and terror organizations with fundamental Islam as a foundation all use blowback as an excuse. It's always someone on 'their' land, it's a teddy bear named Mohammed, it's American treatment of Iran... or Iraq..or Yemen...or some other endeavor.

But we have some observers...just too f'n stupid to comprehend reality.

[Ransom]

:biglaugh:

Look who thanks this idiocy..... the three f'n stooges.

You truly can't teach stupid.

[Green Arrow]

I'm very familiar with your "unnamed neocon jackass" and know exactly who it is. The funny part is, he'll reference Osama's reasons for 9/11 to support his neocon position on Iraq...while completely ignoring the fact that Osama's reasoning for 9/11 shows perfectly that interventionism was at fault for 9/11.

Can't fix stupid.

[Peter1469]

Ransom the Hammer Martel? :shocked:

[Ransom]

I'm very familiar with your "unnamed neocon jackass" and know exactly who it is. The funny part is, he'll reference Osama's reasons for 9/11 to support his neocon position on Iraq...while completely ignoring the fact that Osama's reasoning for 9/11 shows perfectly that interventionism was at fault for 9/11.

Can't fix stupid.

I'm the first to ever show you why we were attacked on 9-11, GA. The one who taught you it was blowback..... for our policies on Iraq. Policies of sanction and blockade. A policy on Iraq that OBL felt supported the Jewish State. The idiot thread start thinks this is some great discovery, blowback every Islamic fundamentalists excuse. When in fact Islam has been one of the most imperialistic, expansive, and violent movements in world history. They involved themselves into from Frank Kingdoms to World War One Europe.....aligned themselves with murderous Nazis in WWII..... and have reaped what they've sown. Our country required to pay indemnities for years. From Ottoman Empire to al-Qaeda, Muslim fundamentalism excuses itself with this blowback idiocy repeatedly.... and we have f'n morons who kneejerk suck it up.

[Ransom]

Ransom the Hammer Martel? :shocked:

He was my military history thesis. His Grandson remaking the world. Read and learn Pete, would probably have prevented you from bone fcking your last geopolitical analyses..... Pete.

[The Xl]

How many fucking times do I have to rebut the historically false lie that the Axis Powers were a threat to America, Mac? How many? No really, how many times are you going to need to be corrected about Germany and Japan? And wow, really? You think fucking Mussolini, who got his ass kicked by the Greeks, was a threat to America?

You are retarded.

You need to post more. For my sanity.

[The Xl]

Hitler had no qualms with America and purposely ordered his forces not to attack American ships so as not to have a repeat of WWI. Despite the fact that FDR intentionally attacked Germany in every way since before his election. FDR was a corporate whore who profited from speculating during Germany's period of hyper-inflation after WWI. He even founded a corporation called the United European Investors that was composed almost entirely of the same plutocrats that destroyed Germany's economy in the first place.

FDR targeted Germany in stump speeches in the early 30's. FDR interfered in European negotiations before WWII started and encouraged Poland to antagonize Germany which led to the invasion. Hitler of course didn't start WWII, that was our Allies, Britain and France. Worth noting is that like his predecessors Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson, FDR was a Morgan man. The Morgans had interest in another war against Germany which brought them lots of wealth in WWI.

FDR targeted German ships in the Atlantic, ignored the laws of war, froze German assets and wealth, acted outside of his constitutional powers to attack and provoke conflict with Germany, armed and funded Germany's enemies, and lied America into war with Germany by blaming Pearl Harbor on Hitler who had nothing to do with it.

Oh but America's problem was that it minded its own business too much. Are you daft?

All of this.

[Ransom]

You need to post more. For my sanity.

=the third stooge

[Peter1469]

He was my military history thesis. His Grandson remaking the world. Read and learn Pete, would probably have prevented you from bone fcking your last geopolitical analyses..... Pete.

Yes, I know about the Hammer and the Holy Roman Emperor.

You still are not qualified to discuss geopolitics with me... armchair.

[Green Arrow]

I'm the first to ever show you why we were attacked on 9-11, GA. The one who taught you it was blowback..... for our policies on Iraq. Policies of sanction and blockade. A policy on Iraq that OBL felt supported the Jewish State. The idiot thread start thinks this is some great discovery, blowback every Islamic fundamentalists excuse. When in fact Islam has been one of the most imperialistic, expansive, and violent movements in world history. They involved themselves into from Frank Kingdoms to World War One Europe.....aligned themselves with murderous Nazis in WWII..... and have reaped what they've sown. Our country required to pay indemnities for years. From Ottoman Empire to al-Qaeda, Muslim fundamentalism excuses itself with this blowback idiocy repeatedly.... and we have f'n morons who kneejerk suck it up.

:rollseyes:

Please. I was talking about this shit before I ever even knew you existed. You are a legend only in your own addled mind, Ransom.

[The Xl]

=the third stooge
I don't put much stock into the words of mentally challenged warmongers. Sorry.

[Ransom]

Yes, I know about the Hammer and the Holy Roman Emperor.

You still are not qualified to discuss geopolitics with me... armchair.

Bone fcked this one so badly, it's part of your permanent record.

[Peter1469]

Bone fcked this one so badly, it's part of your permanent record.

LoL

[Ransom]

I don't put much stock into the words of mentally challenged warmongers. Sorry.

You're not qualified to exchange with me in here is the truth.

[Ransom]

Sideshow with no staying power who would immediately be rejected and thus no threat to US security or our allies.

Bone fck.

[The Xl]

You're not qualified to exchange with me in here is the truth.
I destroy you in every exchange, as most on here do. You're just too dumb to recognize the extremely apparent.

[iustitia]

I'll respond to this post rather than the longer idiocy to begin this hit piece. I'll start by asking if...

We were the predator nation in 1812? Or WW1? So easily to expose who the actual retard is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVx3ebB_LqE

The War of 1812 was a bullshit attempt at a land grab.

America got involved in WWI so the Morgan steel industry could profit. If America minded its own business instead of trafficking arms and ammo for the Entente, and then ended the stalemate by officially entering the war? A peace negotiation. No Versailles, possibly no Stalinism, Fascism, Nazism or WWII.

Try again, war monger.


Those ignorant of history... who give us examples beginning the year they were born. The death of Mohammed sees the meteoric rise of Islam, these blowback arguments have existed since the days of the great Charles Martel. The Hammer himself. It is an absolute fact that Islam has been at war with both Christian and Jewish States, other factions of Islam, at war with each and every neighbor they've ever had. There is a reason northern Africa is Muslim. A reason Istanbul once the Eastern Christian Capital is now governed by Muslims. Thomas Jefferson's presidency began where the Ottomans still demanded indemnities to sail and trade the Med. Your first example of 'blowback' perhaps?

ERMAHGERD TEG MUZZIES. The Barbary Wars were more justified than 1812, but still wars of choice to protect merchants on the seas rather than citizens within our borders. Jefferson also fought the Barbary States quickly and came home. He didn't occupy Tripoli with permanent bases in exchange for foreign aid. Regardless, how much time passed between the Second Barbary War and Operation Ajax? That's 138 years between the end of the Barbary Wars in 1815 and our overthrow of Iranian democracy in 1953. It was 164 years between the end of the Barbary Wars and the Iranian Hostage Crisis. You're an historical illiterate.


The US didn't set up the Israeli State unilaterally. The British lost more men on the first day of the Somme than America had in it's entire pre WW1 army. Most men were lost during our civil war, did we predator ourselves in that conflict.
Nobody said anything about who created Israel. It's the fact of our alliance goes beyond favorable and into the absurd. If there's ever been an entangling alliance, this is one. And the people in the Middle East aren't so stupid that they can't see where our loyalties have been since the 40's.

Why are you talking casualties as if that's relative to the arguments being made? And fuck yes the North preyed on the South, are you that daft? Lincoln started a war over taxes that killed upwards of 800,000 people.


I'm the neocon warmonger who teaches blowback. Rather than your guess that the USS Cole was attacked because America had Intel facilities in Yemen, the USS Cole.... just to show you who the actual clueless moron is here.... was engaged in blockade operations against Iraq when it was attacked, the blowback was Iraq.... not Yemen.

...Except the USS Cole bombing happened in Aden, Yemen. On top of that the Yemeni government and people supported the attackers and hated American foreign policy. You are retarded.
https://books.google.com/books?id=7dqsHiTOr_YC&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196&dq=uss+cole+bombing+blowback&source=bl&ots=ES_cu79Cnd&sig=XQUV80t2yp-pzCR-hCS_efa3sfs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAWoVChMIotXY5ZGgyAIVDHI-Ch2LtQGI#v=onepage&q=uss%20cole%20bombing%20blowback&f=false


Blowback always the excuse, American intervention blamed time and again. The Jewish State, the Shah of Iran...... this all began following the disintegration of the Ottoman Empire following WW1. The Great War that extended into WW2 and the creation of a safe haven for Jews. But of course..... without a shred of knowledge of history, without taking into account that Empires and dictators and governments and terror organizations with fundamental Islam as a foundation all use blowback as an excuse. It's always someone on 'their' land, it's a teddy bear named Mohammed, it's American treatment of Iran... or Iraq..or Yemen...or some other endeavor.

But we have some observers...just too f'n stupid to comprehend reality.

You are a sad example of public school indoctrination and the danger of patriotic mythology. You literally choose to ignore facts in favor of believing lies that make you feel good about the red, white and blue dick up your ass. But hey, who needs to reevaluate killing brown people when you can wrap yourself in a colorful cloth rectangle?

[The Xl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVx3ebB_LqE

The War of 1812 was a bullshit attempt at a land grab.

America got involved in WWI so the Morgan steel industry could profit. If America minded its own business instead of trafficking arms and ammo for the Entente, and then ended the stalemate by officially entering the war? A peace negotiation. No Versailles, possibly no Stalinism, Fascism, Nazism or WWII.

Try again, war monger.



ERMAHGERD TEG MUZZIES. The Barbary Wars were more justified than 1812, but still wars of choice to protect merchants on the seas rather than citizens within our borders. Jefferson also fought the Barbary States quickly and came home. He didn't occupy Tripoli with permanent bases in exchange for foreign aid. Regardless, how much time passed between the Second Barbary War and Operation Ajax? That's 138 years between the end of the Barbary Wars in 1815 and our overthrow of Iranian democracy in 1953. It was 164 years between the end of the Barbary Wars and the Iranian Hostage Crisis. You're an historical illiterate.


Nobody said anything about who created Israel. It's the fact of our alliance goes beyond favorable and into the absurd. If there's ever been an entangling alliance, this is one. And the people in the Middle East aren't so stupid that they can't see where our loyalties have been since the 40's.

Why are you talking casualties as if that's relative to the arguments being made? And fuck yes the North preyed on the South, are you that daft? Lincoln started a war over taxes that killed upwards of 800,000 people.



...Except the USS Cole bombing happened in Aden, Yemen. On top of that the Yemeni government and people supported the attackers and hated American foreign policy. You are retarded.
https://books.google.com/books?id=7dqsHiTOr_YC&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196&dq=uss+cole+bombing+blowback&source=bl&ots=ES_cu79Cnd&sig=XQUV80t2yp-pzCR-hCS_efa3sfs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAWoVChMIotXY5ZGgyAIVDHI-Ch2LtQGI#v=onepage&q=uss%20cole%20bombing%20blowback&f=false



You are a sad example of public school indoctrination and the danger of patriotic mythology. You literally choose to ignore facts in favor of believing lies that make you feel good about the red, white and blue dick up your ass. But hey, who needs to reevaluate killing brown people when you can wrap yourself in a colorful cloth rectangle?

Rektd

[Green Arrow]

Rektd

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/lalaloopsyland/images/b/b8/Rekt.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150107020612

[Ransom]

The USS Cole was engaged in blockade against Iraq. The War of 1812 wasn't fought against a weaker opponent, Madison's War I'm well read on.

Blowback is a lesson I've taught here for months. I ask time and again. Why Iraq when we were attacked by Saudi and ME terrorists from camps in Afghanistan? Why was al-Qaeda driven to such a spectacular attack before George Bush even left the Texas State House?

The name calling here is frustration. Children such as the thread starter often don't like to be taught. Others get upset when reality proves their prognostications and pontifications way way wrong.

Green Arrow I had to link to the OBL Fatwa. The thread starter thinks al-Qaeda was all a fury about 'Intel facilities' in Yemen. Hogsnot. I won't call him a retard, I'll get thread banned. He's dead f'n wrong and naïve. Iraq was under blockade through the corrupt joke that was the oil for food program run by the incompetent UN. The Iraq economy was in shatters. We were flying no fly zones, we had bases in Yemen, forget the f'n Intel facilities, the thread starter has no f'n idea what he's honking about. He's wrong, we had naval and air bases, the American Flag snapping in the breeze across the Persian Gulf...... and someone wants to argue 'Intel facility.'

Poppyc0ck.

Blowback the excuse following Mohammed's death. Blowback the excuse for attacks on Israel, attacks on India, attacks on the US, attacks on other Muslims, attacks in Africa, Indonesia, Russia, attacks on every continent touched on by militant Islam. They outraged when a Teddy Bear was named Mohammed, they murdered when cartoon editors from Paris France enrages them. They issued Fatwa's against authors, they light Jordanian pilots on fire, they roll through Syria leaving heads on fence posts, they murder Priests, Rabbis, nuns, children, women, the leader of ISIS just raped and murdered one of America's humanitarians and what I got from this forum was, hey..... she was in the wrong place, wrong time.

This forum has miscalculated, misinterpreted , and gotten it wrong. And I...... your Uncle Ransom is going to insert the correct arguments and analysis right up your isolationist wazoos..... whether you f'n like it or not. Wrong.... is f'n wrong. And whether you're a name calling uninformed thread starter or a Green Arrow who was way late to the train........ you're going to be corrected.... edited.... and if need be... publicly humiliated.

Like a midget at a urinal, you clowns best be on your toes. Teach is in town. Uncle f'n Ransom.

[donttread]

Why are neocons so willfully stupid on matters of blowback? It's not like they're politicians who need to bullshit their way to war by convincing people there's a threat when they themselves know there isn't. These are citizens that hear the facts, wave them off, and continue repeating lies. I've confronted the quoted poster several times about the bolded attacks and developments. Nope, isolationist lies.

For the record:

May 14, 1948
The Provisional Government of Israel proclaimed the new State of Israel. On that same date the United States, in the person of President Truman, recognized the provisional Jewish government as de facto authority of the new Jewish state. The US and Israel would make an entangling alliance ever since.

August 15, 1953
Operation Ajax, CIA-backed coup detat in Iran for Anglo-Iranian Oil (British Petroleum), Standard Oil of New Jersey, Standard Oil of NY/Socony-Vacuum (Mobil-Standard Oil of California), Gulf, and Texaco.

January 1978
Demonstrations intensify in Iran as the Iranian Revolution begins against their dictator the Shah (installed with the aid of the US and British in Operation Ajax in 1953).

January 16, 1979
The CIA fails to predict the fall of the Shah of Iran, a longtime CIA puppet, and the rise of Muslim fundamentalists who are furious at the CIA’s backing of SAVAK, the Shah’s bloodthirsty secret police. In revenge, the Muslims take 52 Americans hostage in the U.S. embassy in Tehran. Blowback.

July 3, 1979
Operation Cyclone, CIA-backed arming and training of Islamist insurgents in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. Like the Shah in Iran, Afghanistan's dictator prior to Soviet invasion allowed CIA radar installations to monitor the USSR.

August 21, 1982
United States involvement in the Multinational Force in Lebanon is announced by Reagan. Once again the US occupies Lebanon for "stability".

April 18, 1983
United States Embassy Bombing in Lebanon by suicide bomber. Another example of blowback from Muslims pissed off at US foreign policy.

September 29, 1983
Again, US forces return to Lebanon after Congress passed the Multinational Force in Lebanon Resolution. US forces are repeatedly targeted.

October 23, 1983
Beirut Barracks Bombings in Lebanon against MNF forces killing 299 Americans. Another example of blowback from Muslims pissed off at the stationing of US troops in the Middle East. Reagan decides to pull out of Lebanon and instead of learning from this we invade the harmless island of Grenada for no reason.

April 5, 1986
Berlin discotheque bombing which kills two American soldiers. Libya is blamed by Reagan despite no trial of any suspect until 2001.

April 15, 1986
Operation El Dorado Canyon, US bombing of Libya in reaction to the 1986 Berlin discotheque bombing. Again, no trial of suspects until 2001. Failed attempt to kill Gaddafi.

December 21, 1988
Pan Am Flight 103 bombing in Lockerbie, Scotland. Another example of blowback against US foreign policy, Libyan nationals bombed in reaction to Reagan's bombing of Libya in 1986.

August 2, 1990
Persian Gulf War, instigated by the CIA. US Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie encouraged Saddam to invade Kuwait who was slant-drilling into Iraq making billions of dollars off Iraqi oil. Back in 1989, CIA Director William Webster told Kuwaiti leadership to take advantage of Iraq's bad economy and push them, and a CIA-linked think tank simultaneously told Saddam to push Kuwait. Even earlier Bush authorized billions of dollars of illegal arms sales to Saddam. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, the US then fabricated war atrocities (like when the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador gave fake testimony in front of Congress under the name 'Nayirah' and claimed Iraqi troops were ripping Kuwaiti babies from incubators). Saddam was willing to agree to UN demands, and the US wouldn't have it or peace.

August 6, 1990
The sanctioning of Iraq. In less than a decade the combination of sanctions, embargoes and no-fly zones against Iraq would result in half a million dead Iraqi children, destroyed infrastructure, the fall of living standards and a crushing effect on Iraq's economy.

August 7, 1990
As a part of Operation Desert Shield during the Gulf War, US forces would be sent to Saudi Arabia and would occupy it until 2003.

February 26, 1993
World Trade Center bombing in America (which the FBI totally allowed to happen and then blamed on their Muslim informant), carried out by the likes of Sheik Abdel Rahman, a veteran of the US-backed war in Afghanistan. Attack is due to US support of Israel, blowback.

August 8, 1998
Embassy Bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. Another example of blowback against US foreign policy, the bombers blamed US sanctions on Iraq as their motivation for the attacks.

October 12, 2000
USS Cole Bombing, at Aden, Yemen. Another instance of blowback against US foreign policy, a branch of al-Qaeda bombed a US ship in reaction to US creation of intelligence facilities in Yemen.

September 11, 2001
Al-Qaeda and bin Laden cited U.S. support of Israel, the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, and sanctions against Iraq as motives. Fucking blowback. The United States responded by invading Afghanistan, Somalia, the Philippines, Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan, Syria, and fucking West Africa.

Clearly the problem is that America minds its own business too much.


Naw, it's all cause dem there arabs hate freedom and mini skirts! Don't be confusin the issue with facts and such

[Mac-7]

How many $#@!ing times do I have to rebut the historically false lie that the Axis Powers were a threat to America, Mac? How many? No really, how many times are you going to need to be corrected about Germany and Japan? And wow, really? You think $#@!ing Mussolini, who got his ass kicked by the Greeks, was a threat to America?



You are retarded.

You can take your retarded and stick it up your ass.

Since you are only good for personal insults I won't waste any considered debate on you

[birddog]

A simple observation is that history shows that as a rule democrat presidents, due to their incompetence as CICs, set up and caused most wars.

FDR, LBJ, and Clinton come to mind. The Republicans usually have to clean up their mess. Obama's mess may exceed all others!

[Mac-7]

A simple observation is that history shows that as a rule democrat presidents, due to their incompetence as CICs, set up and caused most wars.

FDR, LBJ, and Clinton come to mind. The Republicans usually have to clean up their mess. Obama's mess may exceed all others!

I would not compare the level of Obama stupidity to any democrat president except jimmy carter

And Obama is worse than carter

The Russians are running roughshod over Obama and Kerry anywhere they choose

[iustitia]

The USS Cole was engaged in blockade against Iraq. The War of 1812 wasn't fought against a weaker opponent, Madison's War I'm well read on.I've already explained that the Cole attack was a result of US foreign policy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVx3ebB_LqE

Actually, as I've shown already, the US was trying to steal British Canada while the UK was distracted with the Napoleonic Wars. It was a chickenshit move. America's never faced an equal in battle. The closest we got to that was 1812 and still got our asses kicked for being arrogant pricks. And we justified it with the same neocon talking points for Iraq. "We'll be greeted as liberators!" "It'll be a cakewalk!" Yeah, didn't work.


Blowback is a lesson I've taught here for months. I ask time and again. Why Iraq when we were attacked by Saudi and ME terrorists from camps in Afghanistan? Why was al-Qaeda driven to such a spectacular attack before George Bush even left the Texas State House?
You acknowledge blowback but advocate imperialism. Right because that's not retarded.


The name calling here is frustration. Children such as the thread starter often don't like to be taught. Others get upset when reality proves their prognostications and pontifications way way wrong.
Big talk from a red, white and blue dick rider.


Green Arrow I had to link to the OBL Fatwa. The thread starter thinks al-Qaeda was all a fury about 'Intel facilities' in Yemen. Hogsnot. I won't call him a retard, I'll get thread banned. He's dead f'n wrong and naïve. Iraq was under blockade through the corrupt joke that was the oil for food program run by the incompetent UN. The Iraq economy was in shatters. We were flying no fly zones, we had bases in Yemen, forget the f'n Intel facilities, the thread starter has no f'n idea what he's honking about. He's wrong, we had naval and air bases, the American Flag snapping in the breeze across the Persian Gulf...... and someone wants to argue 'Intel facility.'

What makes you think it's one or the other? Several attacks were the result of our policies towards Iraq. We sanctioned them resulting in half a million death children. We placed no-fly zones on them for a decade and routinely violated their air space, sovereignty and bombed the shit out of them. But blowback is a myth because you think raping Arabs one way proves that the other ways won't cause a reaction. I will call you a retard, thread ban be damned. Retard.


Poppyc0ck.

Blowback the excuse following Mohammed's death. Blowback the excuse for attacks on Israel, attacks on India, attacks on the US, attacks on other Muslims, attacks in Africa, Indonesia, Russia, attacks on every continent touched on by militant Islam. They outraged when a Teddy Bear was named Mohammed, they murdered when cartoon editors from Paris France enrages them. They issued Fatwa's against authors, they light Jordanian pilots on fire, they roll through Syria leaving heads on fence posts, they murder Priests, Rabbis, nuns, children, women, the leader of ISIS just raped and murdered one of America's humanitarians and what I got from this forum was, hey..... she was in the wrong place, wrong time.

You purposely ignore the cause of the extent of radicalism today. America went over 138 years without conflict with Muslims. The Iranian Revolution was caused by our imperialism and the backwardness resulted from modern Muslims turning away from our puppet the Shah and towards the Ayatollah. If we think the Middle East would look the same without the CIA raping it since the 50's, there's no hope for you.


This forum has miscalculated, misinterpreted , and gotten it wrong. And I...... your Uncle Ransom is going to insert the correct arguments and analysis right up your isolationist wazoos..... whether you f'n like it or not. Wrong.... is f'n wrong. And whether you're a name calling uninformed thread starter or a Green Arrow who was way late to the train........ you're going to be corrected.... edited.... and if need be... publicly humiliated.

Like a midget at a urinal, you clowns best be on your toes. Teach is in town. Uncle f'n Ransom.

There are literally no isolationists on this forum. Not being a horrible human being or blood-thirsty monster doesn't equate isolationism. You're seriously a terrible person and America and the world would benefit from people like you being erased.

[Ransom]

You can take your retarded and stick it up your ass.

Since you are only good for personal insults I won't waste any considered debate on you

I'm immune to his tantrums, he's a cut and paste Google clown. He'll look something up and attempt to convince others he's informed.

Called out on this forum, I've a few questions of my own....that will go unanswered. And always have.

My primary and principal lesson(taught to Green Arrow and others) was this 'blowback' argument and excuse that's older than dirt.

Osama Bin Laden detailed why he attacked us on 9-11. Blowback his entire argument. He detailed "three facts that are known to everyone" and can anyone tell me what those three facts were, his primary bones of contention with the US and thus he sends his henchmen to engage murder.

Our presence in the Middle East. But where exactly? Is it Saudi Arabia as our Observers here are so fond of claiming? Is it Yemen that our genius thread start would have you believe? Is it Afghanistan, Pakistan, Jordan, or North Africa?

OBL careful to explicitly detail exactly where, the nation OBL uses as his "best example" of America's presence in the ME is____________?

Bin continues.....he spells out the second fact in great detail and passion. What nation are we inflicting war upon inspiring Bin Laden's 1998 Fatwa____?

Finally...as so many ascertain. This 'blowback' derives from our support for the Jewish State. Bin Laden calls it the Jew's Petty State.....and then he gives a "best proof example" of our support for Israel.....and what nation exactly is that "best proof example" he's speaking to_____________?

Watch the uninformed cowards scatter now. We won't see answers......trolls cannot answer questions. They're trolls.

[Truth Detector]

Nothing like a good anti-Semitic, anti-AmeriKa rant in the morning.

Yep, in loony Liberal land, AmeriKa is a war mongering nation. Forget that we have liberated more nations from tyranny than any nation on the planet in history.

Without a nation like ours, Nazis and Communist dictators would still be enslaving their neighbors and murdering Jews.

This thread is further proof of the glaring failure of our educational systems to educate our citizens and instead, indoctrinate them with stupid nonsense like this.

[iustitia]

This imperialist is playing games with our guilt, skirting our presence overseas by questioning where we were that caused "the" blowback, as if there was only one. The answer is that it's everywhere we go over there. We pissed off Libyans, Saudis, Iraqis, Iranians, et al and for good reason. How many times do I need to post the timeline of our raping of the Middle East before people get that they don't want us over there?

[iustitia]

Nothing like a good anti-Semitic, anti-AmeriKa rant in the morning.

Yep, in loony Liberal land, AmeriKa is a war mongering nation. Forget that we have liberated more nations from tyranny than any nation on the planet in history.

Without a nation like ours, Nazis and Communist dictators would still be enslaving their neighbors and murdering Jews.

This thread is further proof of the glaring failure of our educational systems to educate our citizens and instead, indoctrinate them with stupid nonsense like this.

@Chris (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=128) @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10) please remove the troll.

[Truth Detector]

Hitler had no qualms with America and purposely ordered his forces not to attack American ships so as not to have a repeat of WWI. Despite the fact that FDR intentionally attacked Germany in every way since before his election. FDR was a corporate $#@! who profited from speculating during Germany's period of hyper-inflation after WWI. He even founded a corporation called the United European Investors that was composed almost entirely of the same plutocrats that destroyed Germany's economy in the first place.

FDR targeted Germany in stump speeches in the early 30's. FDR interfered in European negotiations before WWII started and encouraged Poland to antagonize Germany which led to the invasion. Hitler of course didn't start WWII, that was our Allies, Britain and France. Worth noting is that like his predecessors Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson, FDR was a Morgan man. The Morgans had interest in another war against Germany which brought them lots of wealth in WWI.

FDR targeted German ships in the Atlantic, ignored the laws of war, froze German assets and wealth, acted outside of his constitutional powers to attack and provoke conflict with Germany, armed and funded Germany's enemies, and lied America into war with Germany by blaming Pearl Harbor on Hitler who had nothing to do with it.

Oh but America's problem was that it minded its own business too much. Are you daft?

What is this, a Nazi sympathizing forum?? The second thread today making excuses for Hitlers murderous tyranny.

[Truth Detector]

@Chris (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=128) @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10) please remove the troll.

You really are one big AmeriKa hating, Nazi sympathizing whiner aren't you? Pathetic.

[Truth Detector]

This imperialist is playing games with our guilt, skirting our presence overseas by questioning where we were that caused "the" blowback, as if there was only one. The answer is that it's everywhere we go over there. We pissed off Libyans, Saudis, Iraqis, Iryanians, et al and for good reason. How many times do I need to post the timeline of our raping of the Middle East before people get that they don't want us over there?

Who cares if we piss off tyrants, dictators and despots? It's lunatic to argue that because we liberate people from tyranny, the acts of murderous tyrants is justified.

I cannot imagine a more asinine, lunatic and repugnant argument than 9-11 was America's chickens coming home to roost.

Who are you; the hate filled Reverend Right?

[The Xl]

What is this, a Nazi sympathizing forum?? The second thread today making excuses for Hitlers murderous tyranny.

Logical fallacy, appeal to emotion. Fact is, Germany wasn't a threat to the United States until we made them so with our policies.

[Chris]

How many fucking times do I have to rebut the historically false lie that the Axis Powers were a threat to America, Mac? How many? No really, how many times are you going to need to be corrected about Germany and Japan? And wow, really? You think fucking Mussolini, who got his ass kicked by the Greeks, was a threat to America?

You are retarded.

General warning to address topic and not other members.

[Mac-7]

I'm immune to his tantrums, he's a cut and paste Google clown. He'll look something up and attempt to convince others he's informed.

Called out on this forum, I've a few questions of my own....that will go unanswered. And always have.

My primary and principal lesson(taught to Green Arrow and others) was this 'blowback' argument and excuse that's older than dirt.

Osama Bin Laden detailed why he attacked us on 9-11. Blowback his entire argument. He detailed "three facts that are known to everyone" and can anyone tell me what those three facts were, his primary bones of contention with the US and thus he sends his henchmen to engage murder.

Our presence in the Middle East. But where exactly? Is it Saudi Arabia as our Observers here are so fond of claiming? Is it Yemen that our genius thread start would have you believe? Is it Afghanistan, Pakistan, Jordan, or North Africa?

OBL careful to explicitly detail exactly where, the nation OBL uses as his "best example" of America's presence in the ME is____________?

Bin continues.....he spells out the second fact in great detail and passion. What nation are we inflicting war upon inspiring Bin Laden's 1998 Fatwa____?

Finally...as so many ascertain. This 'blowback' derives from our support for the Jewish State. Bin Laden calls it the Jew's Petty State.....and then he gives a "best proof example" of our support for Israel.....and what nation exactly is that "best proof example" he's speaking to_____________?

Watch the uninformed cowards scatter now. We won't see answers......trolls cannot answer questions. They're trolls.

The nazis wanted to take over the world and failed

Islam is older than fascism and is just as dangerous by nature

More dangerous really because there are more Muslims in the world than Germans

[Chris]

I'm immune to his tantrums, he's a cut and paste Google clown. He'll look something up and attempt to convince others he's informed.

Called out on this forum, I've a few questions of my own....that will go unanswered. And always have.

My primary and principal lesson(taught to Green Arrow and others) was this 'blowback' argument and excuse that's older than dirt.

Osama Bin Laden detailed why he attacked us on 9-11. Blowback his entire argument. He detailed "three facts that are known to everyone" and can anyone tell me what those three facts were, his primary bones of contention with the US and thus he sends his henchmen to engage murder.

Our presence in the Middle East. But where exactly? Is it Saudi Arabia as our Observers here are so fond of claiming? Is it Yemen that our genius thread start would have you believe? Is it Afghanistan, Pakistan, Jordan, or North Africa?

OBL careful to explicitly detail exactly where, the nation OBL uses as his "best example" of America's presence in the ME is____________?

Bin continues.....he spells out the second fact in great detail and passion. What nation are we inflicting war upon inspiring Bin Laden's 1998 Fatwa____?

Finally...as so many ascertain. This 'blowback' derives from our support for the Jewish State. Bin Laden calls it the Jew's Petty State.....and then he gives a "best proof example" of our support for Israel.....and what nation exactly is that "best proof example" he's speaking to_____________?

Watch the uninformed cowards scatter now. We won't see answers......trolls cannot answer questions. They're trolls.


You really are one big AmeriKa hating, Nazi sympathizing whiner aren't you? Pathetic.


Add these to general warning. Address topic and not each other. TBs to follow.

[Peter1469]

Germany never expressed a desire to take over the world.

[Common Sense]

Germany never expressed a desire to take over the world.

They sort of did.

Hess said...

"[T]he Seven Years' War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Years%27_War) brought Prussia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia)'s confirmation as a great European power. That war was carried on for seven years to ensure that the already conquered province of Silesia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia) would remain part of Prussia. This war will ensure that everything annexed to the German Reich, to Greater Germany, and then to the Germanic Reich in the years since 1938, will remain ours. This war is being carried on to keep the path to the East open; so that Germany may be a world power (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_power); to found the Germanic World Empire (Germanisches Weltreich)."

[Mister D]

They sort of did.

Hess said...

"[T]he Seven Years' War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Years'_War) brought Prussia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia)'s confirmation as a great European power. That war was carried on for seven years to ensure that the already conquered province of Silesia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia) would remain part of Prussia. This war will ensure that everything annexed to the German Reich, to Greater Germany, and then to the Germanic Reich in the years since 1938, will remain ours. This war is being carried on to keep the path to the East open; so that Germany may be a world power (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_power); to found the Germanic World Empire (Germanisches Weltreich)."

What exactly would the difference be between the Germanic World Empire and the British, French and Spanish World Empires? Or the nascent US World Empire for that matter?

[Mac-7]

Germany never expressed a desire to take over the world.

The Germans didn't have to draw Churchill and FDR a picture

Nazi intentions were obvious to everyone not in the isolationist crowd

But Islam was founded to take over the world

[birddog]

I would not compare the level of Obama stupidity to any democrat president except jimmy carter

And Obama is worse than carter

The Russians are running roughshod over Obama and Kerry anywhere they choose

True, but I was referring to the starting of wars. I guess one could say that if Reagan had not been elected, Carter's incompetence would have started one.

[Mac-7]

True, but I was referring to the starting of wars. I guess one could say that if Reagan had not been elected, Carter's incompetence would have started one.

It's possible that the soviets looked at carter and knew that Afghanistan was theirs for the taking

Now they see Obama who is even weaker than carter

[iustitia]

People that actually believe the Germans were trying to conquer the world are an indictment of the public school system.

[iustitia]

The nazis wanted to take over the world and failed

No they didn't.


Islam is older than fascism and is just as dangerous by nature

As in not dangerous to America? Sure.


More dangerous really because there are more Muslims in the world than Germans

There are over a billion Muslims in the world. If they were really dangerous we'd all be dead.

[Green Arrow]

You can take your retarded and stick it up your ass.

Since you are only good for personal insults I won't waste any considered debate on you

You'd have to be capable of considered debate before you could waste it on anyone.

[Common]

It's possible that the soviets looked at carter and knew that Afghanistan was theirs for the taking

Now they see Obama who is even weaker than carter

How did russia make out in afghanistan

[Chris]

You can take your retarded and stick it up your ass.

Since you are only good for personal insults I won't waste any considered debate on you

Adding this to warning. Stop addressing each other and start addressing topic.

[Mac-7]

You'd have to be capable of considered debate before you could waste it on anyone.

I am very capable

It's lightweights like you and iustitia who need to hurl personal insults to stay in the game

[birddog]

How did russia make out in afghanistan

Beside the point.

[Truth Detector]

It's possible that the soviets looked at carter and knew that Afghanistan was theirs for the taking

Now they see Obama who is even weaker than carter

^Spot on.

[Truth Detector]

People that actually believe the Germans were trying to conquer the world are an indictment of the public school system.

I don't know anyone who has made that claim; they were, however, tryng to take over Europe from England to Siberia, North Africa and the Middle East.

But let's also not forget that they also allied themselves with like minded despots trying to take over Asia. The notion that this doesn't constitute a world order is the realm of fools and idiots.

[Truth Detector]

How did russia make out in afghanistan

The Taliban came to power in the vacuum left by Soviet interventionism in Afghanistan. Should we celebrate?

[texan]

This country should have had a bellyfull of war long ago. Truth is corporate america loves it, they make lots of money off it.

Common you are smarter than that..........................I am sure its good for some companies that sell weapons etc..........But you just grouped all of corp america into the point. I don't like war I don't know many that do. But withdrawal will lead to a bigger mess later and that's the real evaluation that has to be made when looking at these things. I tend to agree with Trump on this one let Russia have at it..................But I am not foolish enough to think that we are out of the woods long term.

I am tired of Obama BSing everyone on these world affair issues. THAT IS EXACTLY what he has been doing. I am done with him.

[The Xl]

Common you are smarter than that..........................I am sure its good for some companies that sell weapons etc..........But you just grouped all of corp america into the point. I don't like war I don't know many that do. But withdrawal will lead to a bigger mess later and that's the real evaluation that has to be made when looking at these things. I tend to agree with Trump on this one let Russia have at it..................But I am not foolish enough to think that we are out of the woods long term.

I am tired of Obama BSing everyone on these world affair issues. THAT IS EXACTLY what he has been doing. I am done with him.

Interventionism created these problems and will continually exacerbate them as long as we engage in it. The way you guys champion has failed, it can't go on any longer.

[Truth Detector]

Logical fallacy, appeal to emotion. Fact is, Germany wasn't a threat to the United States until we made them so with our policies.

I guess you missed the part where Germany's ally, Japan, secretly attacked us at Pearl Harbor and then both nations, allies, declared war on us.

I cannot imagine more dimwitted arguments than yours and iustitias.

[Ransom]

I told you. I asked questions rather than skirting this topic....those questions cannot be addressed. Those asking the thread starter to post more often to "save their sanity"...gone. The thread starter.....will not address the questions given.

This neocon warmonger called an idiot and stupid and every name in the book. Ridiculed, called the Hammer......I told you exactly what would happen. Remain on point.......keep on message......make the argument again....and they ALL run. They cannot address the truth, they realize they're in way over their heads.......they know better, they know when the bull is fcked with.......you get the horns.

My questions remain unanswered. I told you the questions will remain unanswered.

Ransom TBed for ignoring warnings to address topic and not other members.

[Ransom]

Interventionism created these problems and will continually exacerbate them as long as we engage in it. The way you guys champion has failed, it can't go on any longer.

These problems all existed before intervention is what you refuse to acknowledge. Just because you aren't aware, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[The Xl]

I guess you missed the part where Germany's ally, Japan, secretly attacked us at Pearl Harbor and then both nations, allies, declared war on us.

I cannot imagine more dimwitted arguments than yours and iustitias.

Yes, and that was blowback for our aggression towards Japan, sanctions, freezing their assets, etc.

[Mac-7]

Yes, and that was blowback for our aggression towards Japan, sanctions, freezing their assets, etc.

What did Korea and China do to japan to deserve "blowback?"

[Green Arrow]

The Taliban came to power in the vacuum left by Soviet interventionism in Afghanistan.

...because we supplied them with money and weapons.

[Ethereal]

Why are neocons so willfully stupid on matters of blowback? It's not like they're politicians who need to bull$#@! their way to war by convincing people there's a threat when they themselves know there isn't. These are citizens that hear the facts, wave them off, and continue repeating lies. I've confronted the quoted poster several times about the bolded attacks and developments. Nope, isolationist lies.

For the record:

May 14, 1948
The Provisional Government of Israel proclaimed the new State of Israel. On that same date the United States, in the person of President Truman, recognized the provisional Jewish government as de facto authority of the new Jewish state. The US and Israel would make an entangling alliance ever since.

August 15, 1953
Operation Ajax, CIA-backed coup detat in Iran for Anglo-Iranian Oil (British Petroleum), Standard Oil of New Jersey, Standard Oil of NY/Socony-Vacuum (Mobil-Standard Oil of California), Gulf, and Texaco.

January 1978
Demonstrations intensify in Iran as the Iranian Revolution begins against their dictator the Shah (installed with the aid of the US and British in Operation Ajax in 1953).

January 16, 1979
The CIA fails to predict the fall of the Shah of Iran, a longtime CIA puppet, and the rise of Muslim fundamentalists who are furious at the CIA’s backing of SAVAK, the Shah’s bloodthirsty secret police. In revenge, the Muslims take 52 Americans hostage in the U.S. embassy in Tehran. Blowback.

July 3, 1979
Operation Cyclone, CIA-backed arming and training of Islamist insurgents in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. Like the Shah in Iran, Afghanistan's dictator prior to Soviet invasion allowed CIA radar installations to monitor the USSR.

August 21, 1982
United States involvement in the Multinational Force in Lebanon is announced by Reagan. Once again the US occupies Lebanon for "stability".

April 18, 1983
United States Embassy Bombing in Lebanon by suicide bomber. Another example of blowback from Muslims pissed off at US foreign policy.

September 29, 1983
Again, US forces return to Lebanon after Congress passed the Multinational Force in Lebanon Resolution. US forces are repeatedly targeted.

October 23, 1983
Beirut Barracks Bombings in Lebanon against MNF forces killing 299 Americans. Another example of blowback from Muslims pissed off at the stationing of US troops in the Middle East. Reagan decides to pull out of Lebanon and instead of learning from this we invade the harmless island of Grenada for no reason.

April 5, 1986
Berlin discotheque bombing which kills two American soldiers. Libya is blamed by Reagan despite no trial of any suspect until 2001.

April 15, 1986
Operation El Dorado Canyon, US bombing of Libya in reaction to the 1986 Berlin discotheque bombing. Again, no trial of suspects until 2001. Failed attempt to kill Gaddafi.

December 21, 1988
Pan Am Flight 103 bombing in Lockerbie, Scotland. Another example of blowback against US foreign policy, Libyan nationals bombed in reaction to Reagan's bombing of Libya in 1986.

August 2, 1990
Persian Gulf War, instigated by the CIA. US Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie encouraged Saddam to invade Kuwait who was slant-drilling into Iraq making billions of dollars off Iraqi oil. Back in 1989, CIA Director William Webster told Kuwaiti leadership to take advantage of Iraq's bad economy and push them, and a CIA-linked think tank simultaneously told Saddam to push Kuwait. Even earlier Bush authorized billions of dollars of illegal arms sales to Saddam. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, the US then fabricated war atrocities (like when the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador gave fake testimony in front of Congress under the name 'Nayirah' and claimed Iraqi troops were ripping Kuwaiti babies from incubators). Saddam was willing to agree to UN demands, and the US wouldn't have it or peace.

August 6, 1990
The sanctioning of Iraq. In less than a decade the combination of sanctions, embargoes and no-fly zones against Iraq would result in half a million dead Iraqi children, destroyed infrastructure, the fall of living standards and a crushing effect on Iraq's economy.

August 7, 1990
As a part of Operation Desert Shield during the Gulf War, US forces would be sent to Saudi Arabia and would occupy it until 2003.

February 26, 1993
World Trade Center bombing in America (which the FBI totally allowed to happen and then blamed on their Muslim informant), carried out by the likes of Sheik Abdel Rahman, a veteran of the US-backed war in Afghanistan. Attack is due to US support of Israel, blowback.

August 8, 1998
Embassy Bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. Another example of blowback against US foreign policy, the bombers blamed US sanctions on Iraq as their motivation for the attacks.

October 12, 2000
USS Cole Bombing, at Aden, Yemen. Another instance of blowback against US foreign policy, a branch of al-Qaeda bombed a US ship in reaction to US creation of intelligence facilities in Yemen.

September 11, 2001
Al-Qaeda and bin Laden cited U.S. support of Israel, the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, and sanctions against Iraq as motives. $#@!ing blowback. The United States responded by invading Afghanistan, Somalia, the Philippines, Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan, Syria, and $#@!ing West Africa.

Clearly the problem is that America minds its own business too much.

You've obviously never been educated in the neo-con foreign policy school which tells us that USA can never do anything wrong in foreign policy. Everything bad that happens is always someone else's fault.

The real question is: Why do you hate America?

:grin:

[Ethereal]

Interventionism created these problems and will continually exacerbate them as long as we engage in it. The way you guys champion has failed, it can't go on any longer.

No, you see, the US government is incapable of doing anything wrong, especially when it involves Muslims. It's ALWAYS the Muslims' fault, never the US government's. Don't you know this!?

[Green Arrow]

It amazes me that people will criticize Obama and Democrats in one breath and then suddenly make them innocent of any wrongdoing in another.

[Tahuyaman]

You truly can't teach stupid.
No. They have proven that you can teach it. You just can't eliminate it.

[Ethereal]

Every war the US government has ever been in was totally justified. They had no other choice, and every war that was waged by them was done so in the most humane, most just manner possible. They had nothing but the best intentions. Anyone who tries to say that the US government is corrupt, inept, or imperialistic simply doesn't understand how pure, noble, and wise US politicians really are. They are the best and brightest this country has to offer. When will you America-haters ever learn?

[Ethereal]

Look, it's really simple.

In a domestic context, Republicans hate big government, ascribe the worst intentions to politicians, and generally tell us that the US government cannot do anything right, whether it's a website or a welfare program.

But when the US government operates in a foreign context, it magically transforms into the most just, noble, and competent institution on the planet, and is beset on all sides by evildoers intent on destroying America. Thank goodness for these blessed politicians and their immense wisdom and moral fiber, because without them protecting us from all these big, bad meanies in the world, we'd all be enslaved by Putin or ISIS by now.

So take some time out of your busy day to thank US politicians for keeping you safe, you America-hating ingrates. You'd be totally lost without them.

[The Xl]

Look, it's really simple.

In a domestic context, Republicans hate big government, ascribe the worst intentions to politicians, and generally tell us that the US government cannot do anything right, whether it's a website or a welfare program.

But when the US government operates in a foreign context, it magically transforms into the most just, noble, and competent institution on the planet, and is beset on all sides by evildoers intent on destroying America. Thank goodness for these blessed politicians and their immense wisdom and moral fiber, because without them protecting us from all these big, bad meanies in the world, we'd all be enslaved by Putin or ISIS by now.

So take some time out of your busy day to thank US politicians for keeping you safe, you America-hating ingrates. You'd be totally lost without them.

When you put it that way, you make them sound like retards. Which is completely fair, because they are.

[Ethereal]

But withdrawal will lead to a bigger mess later...

Obviously. Just look at Switzerland. They are being attacked all the time. It's a miracle that country still exists!

[Ethereal]

What did Korea and China do to japan to deserve "blowback?"

Because if there is anything that neo-cons care about, it's aggression against China. They really hate that!

[The Xl]

What did Korea and China do to japan to deserve "blowback?"

How is any of that an American issue?

[The Xl]

These problems all existed before intervention is what you refuse to acknowledge. Just because you aren't aware, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Their regional issues didn't affect us until we put our hand in the middle east.

[Peter1469]

With regards to the abortion like mess above: Germany never had the ability to "take over the world." Militant Islam has much less chance than Germany of "taking over the world."

We really need to rethink the vote. Many ought to be prohibited based on their demonstrated thought processes.

[Ethereal]

How is any of that an American issue?

Because neo-cons care deeply for the sovereignty and stability of China. If there is one thing neo-cons cannot stand, it's aggression towards China.

[The Xl]

Because neo-cons care deeply for the sovereignty and stability of China. If there is one thing neo-cons cannot stand, it's aggression towards China.
Ah yes, Macs post history shows a deep and caring concen for the well being of China. Lmfao, how could I forget?

[Mac-7]

How is any of that an American issue?

Intelligent people like Roosevelt knew that what. Happened to china could happen to us next

China and Korea did nothing to Japan which is the answer to my question that you and xl cannot say

Because it blows holes on your blowback excuse for Muslim wacko ism

[iustitia]

Actually guys, Korea and China were blowback as well. Theodore Roosevelt and western imperialists encouraged Japanese militarism following the Russo-Japanese War. Japan became considered an honorary Aryan nation with the moral obligation to "protect" and "civilize" the Asian sphere of influence. The US did this to protect its foothold in Asian markets and Theodore Roosevelt encouraged Japan to conquer Korea and basically betrayed the naive emperor of Korea who considered America an older brother of Korea.

Ironically, Theodore's cousin FDR would use this unleashed militarism to justify further American subjugation of the continent for business interests. The Rockefeller oil interests in China were threatened by Japan who relied on foreign oil to sustain itself.

[Ethereal]

Actually guys, Korea and China were blowback as well. Theodore Roosevelt and western imperialists encouraged Japanese militarism following the Russo-Japanese War. Japan became considered an honorary Aryan nation with the moral obligation to "protect" and "civilize" the Asian sphere of influence. The US did this to protect its foothold in Asian markets and Theodore Roosevelt encouraged Japan to conquer Korea and basically betrayed the naive Korean emperor of Korea who considered America an older brother of Korea.

Ironically, Theodore's cousin FDR would use this unleashed militarism to justify further American subjugation of the continent for business interests. The Rockefeller oil interests in China were threatened by Japan who relied on foreign oil to sustain itself.

No, no, no!

Remember, nothing bad that happens is EVER the US government's fault, unless it occurs in a domestic context, then everything bad that happens is ALWAYS the US government's fault.

Why is this so hard for you to understand!?

[iustitia]

No, no, no!

Remember, nothing bad that happens is EVER the US government's fault, unless it occurs in a domestic context, then everything bad that happens is ALWAYS the US government's fault.

Why is this so hard for you to understand!?

cuz I'm a Nazi-sympathizing lib.

[Peter1469]

No nation can project military power like the US.

You Neocons and confused people need to chill. The only thing you should concern yourself with is an EMP attack (http://empcommission.org). We can fix that.

[Mac-7]

No nation can project military power like the US.



I want to make sure it stays that way.

Isolationists think a weak America is better for the world.

[iustitia]

I want to make sure it stays that way.

Isolationists think a weak America is better for the world.

No, non-interventionists which you falsely accuse of isolationism just disagree with your lust for bloodshed and murder, that's all.

[Chris]

No, non-interventionists which you falsely accuse of isolationism just disagree with your lust for bloodshed and murder, that's all.



Binary is as good as some can do--interventionist or isolationist. The notion there's a third rail, third party, third alternative--here, non-interventionism--is too much.

[Chris]

Late to the party but I think this piece addresses the topic, The Curse of American Exceptionalism (https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/10/thomas-dilorenzo/the-curse-of-american-exceptionalism/)

We can skip the fun stuff...


Nothing seems to cause one of the neocon talking heads to fall into a rage more than discussing a politician or political candidate who “doesn’t believe in American exceptionalism!!” Sean Hannity seems especially unhinged under such circumstances. This is because “American exceptionalism” has long been the ideological underpinning of – and justification for –the American empire and all of its military adventures. As shills for the American military/industrial complex and the empire that it is forever expanding, Hannity, O’Reilly, Limbaugh, and all the rest are required by their masters to express outrage – outrage! – whenever anyone questions the propriety of American imperialism and empire building....

And jump to the good stuff...


...This “treasury of virtue,” another way of saying “American exceptionalism” provides the “moral” cover for the unmitigated greed for war profiteering by the American military/industrial complex and is therefore a perfect example of the “bootleggers and Baptists”convention that economists talk about. The originator of this convention is economist Bruce Yandle, who explained that alcohol prohibition was supported by bootleggers who profited from selling illegal alcohol and by religious people (“Baptists”) who opposed drinking on moral grounds. Pure greed won’t garner much public support; it has to be hidden behind a veil of pseudo-morality such as the phony “American exceptionalism” canard.

[Mister D]

American exceptionalism is, however, part and parcel of our national mythology. It's certainly not the invention of neoconservativism but rather that of pre-colonial society.

[Mac-7]

No, non-interventionists which you falsely accuse of isolationism just disagree with your lust for bloodshed and murder, that's all.

I'm not interested in your opinion.

You were tuned out several pages ago when you decided to go to personsl insults as your argument.

[iustitia]

I'm not interested in your opinion.

You were tuned out several pages ago when you decided to go to personsl insults as your argument.

Not like lying about the positions of others, right?

[Captain Obvious]

American exceptionalism is, however, part and parcel of our national mythology. It's certainly not the invention of neoconservativism but rather that of pre-colonial society.

Resource driven?

[Chris]

American exceptionalism is, however, part and parcel of our national mythology. It's certainly not the invention of neoconservativism but rather that of pre-colonial society.

For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us. So that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken, and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a by-word through the world. --"A Model of Christian Charity," Governor John Winthrop, 1630

[Mister D]

Resource driven?

I would suggest it's religious. See Chris' citation, for example. Granted, I think the concept has been thoroughly secularized but that has only served to cloud the perception your average American has of how our religious heritage continues to play a strong role in our thinking about our place in the world.

[Chris]

I would suggest it's religious. See Chris' citation, for example. Granted, I think the concept has been thoroughly secularized but that has only served to cloud the perception your average American has of how our religious heritage continues to play a strong role in our thinking about our place in the world.

Very secularized. Winthrop was a very religious man. Reagan's vision is different:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c32G868tor0

[Truth Detector]

No, non-interventionists which you falsely accuse of isolationism just disagree with your lust for bloodshed and murder, that's all.

.....but have no issues with Nazis, Communists, tyrants and terrorists.

[Truth Detector]

Late to the party but I think this piece addresses the topic, The Curse of American Exceptionalism (https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/10/thomas-dilorenzo/the-curse-of-american-exceptionalism/)

We can skip the fun stuff...

And jump to the good stuff...

What a nice brain dead libertarian pile of crap. Yep, nothing like retarded arguments that suggest AmeriKa is not exceptional.

[Truth Detector]

American exceptionalism is, however, part and parcel of our national mythology. It's certainly not the invention of neoconservativism but rather that of pre-colonial society.

Yeah; because everyone knows Nazis were exceptional, Anglo Imperialism was exceptional, Franco imperialism was exceptional, Communism was exceptional and brutal third world dictators were exceptional.

Moronic.

[iustitia]

The only thing exceptional right now is your trolling.

[Mister D]

Yeah; because everyone knows Nazis were exceptional, Anglo Imperialism was exceptional, Franco imperialism was exceptional, Communism was exceptional and brutal third world dictators were exceptional.

Moronic.

Wut

[Mister D]

The only thing exceptional right now is your trolling.

Could possibly be another progressive plant.

[zelmo1234]

I am reminded of the consequences of appeasement, I know that Chamberlin goes down as making great decisions.

That being said we have to give up on nations building. Keep killing people until they unconditionally surrender. The decide if we need another star on the flag or if we just move out and let them rebuild on their own.

Evil must be confronted.

[Chris]

.....but have no issues with Nazis, Communists, tyrants and terrorists.

Non-interventions, by definition, have issues with all interventionists, aka statists.

[Chris]

What a nice brain dead libertarian pile of crap. Yep, nothing like retarded arguments that suggest AmeriKa is not exceptional.

Nice adjectives there. No content.

[Mister D]

I'm not sold on the idea that this is a true reflection on the state of American conservatism but wow...just wow.

[iustitia]

Could possibly be another progressive plant.

Possibly? He's about as transparent as decedent.

[Chris]

Could possibly be another progressive plant.

Another caricature of a caricature.

[Mister D]

Possibly? He's about as transparent as decedent.

Except decedent was amusing at first. Yeah, I have my suspicions.

[Mister D]

Well time to pit him on ignore. His posts are just clutter and in bad faith no less.

[Green Arrow]

Could possibly be another progressive plant.

It's Libhater back from his forced hiatus.

[Green Arrow]

For the record, this is why I post serious threads in the tPF Discussion Forum now.

[Captain Obvious]

Well time to pit him on ignore. His posts are just clutter and in bad faith no less.

[Captain Obvious]

Well time to pit him on ignore. His posts are just clutter and in bad faith no less.

Good choice. I have this derp on ignore along with Cigar.

Waste of time usually.

[Mister D]

It's Libhater back from his forced hiatus.

Ah, that makes sense.

[The Xl]

He does write a little like Libhater...

[Ethereal]

Could possibly be another progressive plant.

Then he is really dedicated to his craft, because he's been at this for many years on multiple forums.

[Mister D]

For the record, this is why I post serious threads in the tPF Discussion Forum now.

Yeah, I've really taken a liking to that room. I've been pretty fair too. I tolerate Mark when he's obnoxious and trying to sound confident and smart. I just won't tolerate Cigaresque trolling.

[Mister D]

Then he is really dedicated to his craft, because he's been at this for many years on multiple forums.

Has he? Wow. It's hard to imagine that's someone's real personality...

[Ethereal]

Has he? Wow. It's hard to imagine that's someone's real personality...

Yup.

He strikes me as the stereotype of a rage-filled, impotent jerk with nothing better to do than vent his spleen all over the internet.

[Chris]

Another caricature of a caricature.

OK, OK, let's got of off members and back onto topic.

[Green Arrow]

Yup.

He strikes me as the stereotype of a rage-filled, impotent jerk with nothing better to do than vent his spleen all over the internet.

So Rush Limbaugh, then.

[Common]

Wut

Thats one of the clowns you called me out on in public saying I was ACCUSING Them, hes been trolling from the day he hit this forum.

[Mister D]

Thats one of the clowns you called me out on in public saying I was ACCUSING Them, hes been trolling from the day he hit this forum.

I called you out because it's annoying. Just ignore him. It's not hard. Watch and learn. :wink:

[Subdermal]

So Rush Limbaugh, then.

Good grief.

I don't listen to Rush very often, but when I do, I find his opinions carefully researched, clearly expressed, and quite compelling. He's the most successful political talking head in history, and it clearly isn't a result of lack of substance. He's been on top for over 20 years, IIRC. I think he put more effort into being entertaining many years ago, when his parodies were good enough to draw listeners on their merit alone.

People who do not like Rush really have little else to do but character assassinate and attack in general, as attempting to do so regarding specifics usually - if not always - fail.

There are members of each ideology with varying levels of intelligence; this much should be obvious to everyone. Attempting to marginalize members of another ideology by attacking their personal shortcomings without also including a substantive challenge for whatever it is they have expressed support is a level of dishonesty I cannot tolerate.

We're all human. We all have disdain for what we consider stupidity. We can express that disdain, either cleverly, or rudely - but to be unable to substantively refute each and every position expressed by the target of disdain is positively bankrupt, and illustrative of a core weakness.

[Chris]

...Attempting to marginalize members of another ideology by attacking their personal shortcomings without also including a substantive challenge for whatever it is they have expressed support...

Happens quite a bit.

The purpose is to inflame, get a reaction. Distract from issue.

[Subdermal]

American exceptionalism is, however, part and parcel of our national mythology. It's certainly not the invention of neoconservativism but rather that of pre-colonial society.

Disagree.

American Exceptionalism exists(ed) because foreigners created it, and we happily embraced it. We have been the historic destination for the dreamers - and they were seeking the American Dream, which is - itself - Exceptional.

It wasn't mythology. Ever.

Were it not, there would have been countless other destinations through which such a Dream could be pursued - and this is not saying that there haven't been. It's saying that none hold a candle to the popular draw of America as the Land where these dreams could most likely be realized.

Our Exceptionalism is rooted not in mythology, but in just exactly how special Human Liberty can be realized when adhering to the Original Intent of the Constitution.

We are no longer exceptional, and only our abuse and willful ignorance of the Constitution has killed that Exceptionalism. We are living - now, many of us - on past accomplishments. That is simultaneously creating great sorrow and great anger.

[Subdermal]

Happens quite a bit.

The purpose is to inflame, get a reaction. Distract from issue.

Precisely why I made the comment. My view is those guilty of this either hold the losing position, or aren't intelligent enough to express why their position is superior. These posters should stay on the sidelines, and read and learn instead.

[Green Arrow]

Good grief.

I don't listen to Rush very often, but when I do, I find his opinions carefully researched, clearly expressed, and quite compelling. He's the most successful political talking head in history, and it clearly isn't a result of lack of substance. He's been on top for over 20 years, IIRC. I think he put more effort into being entertaining many years ago, when his parodies were good enough to draw listeners on their merit alone.

People who do not like Rush really have little else to do but character assassinate and attack in general, as attempting to do so regarding specifics usually - if not always - fail.

There are members of each ideology with varying levels of intelligence; this much should be obvious to everyone. Attempting to marginalize members of another ideology by attacking their personal shortcomings without also including a substantive challenge for whatever it is they have expressed support is a level of dishonesty I cannot tolerate.

We're all human. We all have disdain for what we consider stupidity. We can express that disdain, either cleverly, or rudely - but to be unable to substantively refute each and every position expressed by the target of disdain is positively bankrupt, and illustrative of a core weakness.

That's nice.

[Truth Detector]

Non-interventions, by definition, have issues with all interventionists, aka statists.

Non-Interventionist is one of those moronic terms along the lines of income equality and wealth inequality.

[Truth Detector]

Nice adjectives there. No content.

You should be quite familiar with "no content"; so many of your posts are defined by it.

[Common]

Non-Interventionist is one of those moronic terms along the lines of income equality and wealth inequality.

Along with the moronic terms like Trickle Down and Taxcuts create jobs

[Chris]

Non-Interventionist is one of those moronic terms along the lines of income equality and wealth inequality.

Nice adjectives that make absolutely no sense.

[Chris]

You should be quite familiar with "no content"; so many of your posts are defined by it.

Again, no content.

[Truth Detector]

Another caricature of a caricature.

So when you say address the topic and not the poster; that's just more bloviating bullshit from you right? ::wink wink::

[Chris]

Precisely why I made the comment. My view is those guilty of this either hold the losing position, or aren't intelligent enough to express why their position is superior. These posters should stay on the sidelines, and read and learn instead.

Do you see some of that above?

[Truth Detector]

Good grief.

I don't listen to Rush very often, but when I do, I find his opinions carefully researched, clearly expressed, and quite compelling. He's the most successful political talking head in history, and it clearly isn't a result of lack of substance. He's been on top for over 20 years, IIRC. I think he put more effort into being entertaining many years ago, when his parodies were good enough to draw listeners on their merit alone.

People who do not like Rush really have little else to do but character assassinate and attack in general, as attempting to do so regarding specifics usually - if not always - fail.

There are members of each ideology with varying levels of intelligence; this much should be obvious to everyone. Attempting to marginalize members of another ideology by attacking their personal shortcomings without also including a substantive challenge for whatever it is they have expressed support is a level of dishonesty I cannot tolerate.

We're all human. We all have disdain for what we consider stupidity. We can express that disdain, either cleverly, or rudely - but to be unable to substantively refute each and every position expressed by the target of disdain is positively bankrupt, and illustrative of a core weakness.

^Spot on.

[Truth Detector]

Along with the moronic terms like Trickle Down and Taxcuts create jobs

I hate to inform you, but "trickle down" is a leftist term. The notion that tax increases create jobs is the realm of retards.

[Truth Detector]

Nice adjectives that make absolutely no sense.


Again, no content.

I would remind you to read the forum rules and get back to me when you properly and correctly comprehend them.

I don't find your trolling my posts to be intelligent or compelling.

[Chris]

I would remind you to read the forum rules and get back to me when you properly and correctly comprehend them.

I don't find your trolling my posts to be intelligent or compelling.


Just commenting on the lack of content in your posts.

[Chris]

I hate to inform you, but "trickle down" is a leftist term. The notion that tax increases create jobs is the realm of retards.

Trickle down implies tax breaks to business. Try and get it right.

[Truth Detector]

Just commenting on the lack of content in your posts.

Wrong; you're trolling and baiting. But I get it, when it is you or your leftist buddies on the forum, that is okay. It's only when it is a Conservative that it is unacceptable.

::wink wink::

[Truth Detector]

I hate to inform you, but "trickle down" is a leftist term. The notion that tax increases create jobs is the realm of retards.


Trickle down implies tax breaks to business. Try and get it right.

Petty insult; but that is okay, after all, you're special. ::wink wink::

If you could read and comprehend what I posted, I said that "trickle down" was a leftist meme. I'll have to lower my expectations when it comes to your comprehension level.

[Common]

Wrong; you're trolling and baiting. But I get it, when it is you or your leftist buddies on the forum, that is okay. It's only when it is a Conservative that it is unacceptable.

::wink wink::

First of all the troll here is you and no one else but you.

Ive got more warnings from chris and infractions than anyone else.

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss236/Miss_Chankla0_o/page039.gif

Thread banned for ignoring warnings.

[Subdermal]

That's nice.

http://hannahmarcotti.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/beach-surrender.jpg

[Green Arrow]

http://hannahmarcotti.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/beach-surrender.jpg

Surrender? Hardly. I just think your point is absurd. According to you, I should sit there and list every single person or cause I disagree with just to criticize one of them. It's the Fairness Doctrine all over again.

[Subdermal]

Surrender? Hardly.

You chose to surrender when you couldn't counter my defense of Rush Limbaugh. You didn't even try.


I just think your point is absurd.

If it's absurd, you should be able to counter with your own examples, demonstrating Limbaugh to be a "rage-filled, impotent jerk" - because that's the comparison you dishonestly chose to draw.

I find Limbaugh to be quite the opposite. He's calm, measured and extremely effective - and I've seen no evidence at all that he's anything other than a nice guy who is a Conservative.


According to you, I should sit there and list every single person or cause I disagree with just to criticize one of them. It's the Fairness Doctrine all over again.

What a silly claim. There is nothing about my retort which requires you to 'list' anything; my response - if anything - was an opportunity for you to support your ridiculous attempt at character assassination of Rush Limbaugh. You unfairly attacked one person, and I corrected the record - and without a countered peep from you, I'll add.

[Common Sense]

Well that explains a lot...

[Green Arrow]

You chose to surrender when you couldn't counter my defense of Rush Limbaugh. You didn't even try.

That's because I don't really give a shit. You like Rush Limbaugh, great. I don't. Nothing more needs to be said. It's an issue that is purely opinion in nature.


If it's absurd, you should be able to counter with your own examples, demonstrating Limbaugh to be a "rage-filled, impotent jerk" - because that's the comparison you dishonestly chose to draw.

I find Limbaugh to be quite the opposite. He's calm, measured and extremely effective - and I've seen no evidence at all that he's anything other than a nice guy who is a Conservative.

I wasn't talking about your opinion of Limbaugh. What is absurd is your idea that I should name every single left-wing idiot I know of just to call out Limbaugh as a moron. You call it the height of dishonesty, I call it ridiculous.


What a silly claim. There is nothing about my retort which requires you to 'list' anything; my response - if anything - was an opportunity for you to support your ridiculous attempt at character assassination of Rush Limbaugh. You unfairly attacked one person, and I corrected the record - and without a countered peep from you, I'll add.

You said, and I quote:


There are members of each ideology with varying levels of intelligence; this much should be obvious to everyone. Attempting to marginalize members of another ideology by attacking their personal shortcomings without also including a substantive challenge for whatever it is they have expressed support is a level of dishonesty I cannot tolerate.

In other words, to call out Limbaugh as a moron, I also have to turn around and call out, say, Keith Olbermann as a moron, otherwise I'm being dishonest.

That's stupid, and absurd.

*EDIT* I take that back, I misread what you said. It appears you're arguing that it's dishonest to not substantively challenge something a person says when criticizing their personal shortcomings. I still disagree with that, as there's nothing particularly dishonest about it, but it's significantly more reasonable than what I thought you said. So my apologies on that.

[Subdermal]

That's because I don't really give a $#@!. You like Rush Limbaugh, great. I don't. Nothing more needs to be said. It's an issue that is purely opinion in nature.

Of course it is. You chose to air an opinion with which I found issue, and you didn't choose to defend my criticism of your opinion.

This forum is about debating these opinions. You surrendered instead - which is exactly what I posted.


I wasn't talking about your opinion of Limbaugh.

So? You offered an opinion about someone that I believe is utterly false. You still haven't provided any credibility for your opinion.


What is absurd is your idea that I should name every single left-wing idiot I know of just to call out Limbaugh as a moron. You call it the height of dishonesty, I call it ridiculous.

Please post where I said you should name anyone. You're literally making stuff up to create an offense that does not exist.


You said, and I quote:


There are members of each ideology with varying levels of intelligence; this much should be obvious to everyone. Attempting to marginalize members of another ideology by attacking their personal shortcomings without also including a substantive challenge for whatever it is they have expressed support is a level of dishonesty I cannot tolerate.


In other words, to call out Limbaugh as a moron, I also have to turn around and call out, say, Keith Olbermann as a moron, otherwise I'm being dishonest.

That's stupid, and absurd.

No: what's stupid and absurd is your level of comprehension of my attack on your stance.

I included what I wrote - and then highlighted the critical line - to illustrate just how ridiculous your complaint is. This has nothing to do with requiring you to grant "equal time" to anyone, just because you lob a bomb at someone. You want to criticize someone? Be intellectually honest about it, and substantiate the criticism, as I wrote (and then bolded and underlined, so you have a second kick at the can of comprehension).


*EDIT* I take that back, I misread what you said. It appears you're arguing that it's dishonest to not substantively challenge something a person says when criticizing their personal shortcomings. I still disagree with that, as there's nothing particularly dishonest about it, but it's significantly more reasonable than what I thought you said. So my apologies on that.

Ok - I should have read your whole post - or waited a while, because I didn't see this included initially - before I wrote my response. Now you're getting where you need to be - but you STILL have to support your attack.

Are you willing to do so, or do you just want to character assassinate without providing substance?

[Subdermal]

Well that explains a lot...

You can choose to contribute and participate in this discussion, or you can choose to make generic and vague comments.

Your choice. The latter is weak, and stupid.

[Green Arrow]

Of course it is. You chose to air an opinion with which I found issue, and you didn't choose to defend my criticism of your opinion.

This forum is about debating these opinions. You surrendered instead - which is exactly what I posted.

I didn't surrender, I just refuse to waste time debating whether or not Rush Limbaugh's radio personality is good. Would you want to spend several posts debating whether Kim Kardashian is important? I sure hope not.

That's the last I'm going to discuss Rush Limbaugh.


So? You offered an opinion about someone that I believe is utterly false. You still haven't provided any credibility for your opinion.

Credibility? He's a fucking celebrity, nobody's opinion on a celebrity is credible. Jesus fucking Christ, you are taking this way too seriously.

[Subdermal]

I didn't surrender, I just refuse to waste time debating whether or not Rush Limbaugh's radio personality is good. Would you want to spend several posts debating whether Kim Kardashian is important? I sure hope not.

That's the last I'm going to discuss Rush Limbaugh.

Translation: I wish to take my dishonest and unfair shot at someone, but I do not wish to have to defend it.

Got it.


Credibility? He's a $#@!ing celebrity, nobody's opinion on a celebrity is credible. Jesus $#@!ing Christ, you are taking this way too seriously.

Non sequitur. It is meaningless that Rush is a celebrity. You were trying to bash someone unfairly, and I called you out on it. You have yet to provide any substance to defend your attack. I am defending because I cannot stand character assassination; it is depraved bullsh!t, and part of the degradation of civility and honest discourse.

Yes, I do take that seriously. I'll note you probably hop to the defense of someone who mirrors your ideology as well - and such a person better be able to defend their claims.

You haven't.

[Green Arrow]

Believe what you want about me if it makes you feel better.