Do you favor leaving?

[iustitia]

It goes without saying how long we've been in certain parts of the world. We're in Japan, WWII is over. We're in South Korea, Korean War is over. Still in Europe, WWII and Cold War are over. We currently have bases in over 50 countries.

Do you think our military should stay in all our foreign bases forever? Some? Would it serve our empire better to let countries like Japan defend themselves and use overseas troops to protect our borders, protecting our own sovereignty for a change?

[Mister D]

I said Europe but I should note that my concerns are racial ones. The more Europe comes to look like the US the more its future is in peril.

[Chris]

My reasoning: Nonintervention ought to be the meaning of Dept of Defense.

[jimmyz]

My reasoning: Nonintervention ought to be the meaning of Dept of Defense.

It used to be called The Department of War. True story IIRC.

[Don]

My reasoning: Nonintervention ought to be the meaning of Dept of Defense.

I agree. The trouble is that Dept. of Defense is Orwellian like so many other things in government. The name is just the opposite of what it should be. I'd rather we went back to what it was, the War Department. Only to be used when congress declares war.

[Chris]

It used to be called The Department of War. True story IIRC.

Tell the story? When'd it change? Do make me look it up! :)

[Chris]

49

[jimmyz]

Tell the story? When'd it change? Do make me look it up! :)

From Wiki -
"The United States Department of War, also called the War Department (and occasionally War Office in the early years), was the United States Cabinet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Cabinet) department originally responsible for the operation and maintenance of the United States Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army). The War Department also bore responsibility for naval affairs until the establishment of the Navy Department (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_the_Navy) in 1798 and for most land-based air forces until the creation of the Department of the Air Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_the_Air_Force) in 1947.The Secretary of War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_of_War) headed the war department throughout its existence. The Secretary of War, a civilian with such responsibilities as finance and purchases and a minor role in directing military affairs, headed the War Department.
The War Department existed from 1789 until September 18, 1947, when it split into Department of the Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_the_Army) and Department of the Air Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_the_Air_Force) and joined the Department of the Navy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_the_Navy)as part of the new joint National Military Establishment (NME), renamed the United States Department of Defense (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Defense) in 1949."

[Green Arrow]

It used to be called The Department of War. True story IIRC.

It was actually formed by a merger of the Department of War and the Department of the Navy in 1947.

[jimmyz]

It was actually formed by a merger of the Department of War and the Department of the Navy in 1947.

Yep. See my post above yours

[Green Arrow]

Yep. See my post above yours

Yeah, I saw it after I posted. I guess I should have finished reading the thread before responding :tongue:

[Green Arrow]

iustitia, I'd say we should ask the countries we have bases in if they want us to have our bases there. If they say yes, then we should agree to keep it there...if, and only if, they agree to pay all associated costs.

[Common]

I said all of them, if they want us to stay for example South Korea then they pay the total cost of our military being based there. FULL COST. They are an economic machine and were paying for their security.

Were still in europe especially germany just to keep their economy going. Weve been there for decades for what ?

Our military is much smaller and spread to thin and its time for the rest of the world to step up and do something for themselves.

WW2 americans were very much aware of the war, Korea same, Nam with all the protests and the body counts america was very much aware, nam was 7 yrs. Today after 15 yrs of war in iraq and afghanistan they seem ambivalent. These soldiers are being brutalized with tour after tour after tour. Its common to read about a family man having to do 4 tours in the middle east? what are we doing.

[Ransom]

It goes without saying how long we've been in certain parts of the world. We're in Japan, WWII is over. We're in South Korea, Korean War is over. Still in Europe, WWII and Cold War are over. We currently have bases in over 50 countries.

Do you think our military should stay in all our foreign bases forever? Some? Would it serve our empire better to let countries like Japan defend themselves and use overseas troops to protect our borders, protecting our own sovereignty for a change?

Where........ hold on let me read this again......... there's the 'should stay' option.................. let's see........ and then the stay in 'some' arenas choice, meaning withdrawal........ but I don't see no......... wait.........nope, I don't see no choice for your Uncle Ransom.

I mean, I obliterate your neocon hit piece thread putting you on the defensive straight away before crushing your erred arguments in mere minutes....... but that's all I did. Now, you hurt my feelings and don't even give me a choice in yer little duck pond poll.

I don't see a non pansy choice. An option beyond garden variety tulip.

Withdrawal or stay limits my options. Where's the expand our influence box, Pilgrim? Uncle Ransom wants to play.

What a joke. Y'all jam to LZ's Dazed and Confused while voting?

[Chris]

Where........ hold on let me read this again......... there's the 'should stay' option.................. let's see........ and then the stay in 'some' arenas choice, meaning withdrawal........ but I don't see no......... wait.........nope, I don't see no choice for your Uncle Ransom.

I mean, I obliterate your neocon hit piece thread putting you on the defensive straight away before crushing your erred arguments in mere minutes....... but that's all I did. Now, you hurt my feelings and don't even give me a choice in yer little duck pond poll.

I don't see a non pansy choice. An option beyond garden variety tulip.

Withdrawal or stay limits my options. Where's the expand our influence box, Pilgrim? Uncle Ransom wants to play.

What a joke. Y'all jam to LZ's Dazed and Confused while voting?


Leaving doesn't imply withdrawal. Withdrawal implies retreat from battle. What battle? Speaking of dazed and confused.

[Carlsen]

.
The USA and UK should keep there militaire in Europe to protect this from Israel


.

[Common]

The few that answered the poll seem to agree we should pull out

[Lineman]

1. Get out of these countries.

2. No more US Military 'on call' for Isreals regional problems.

There is no reason to have land based US military bases all over the planet. We have a real time ability for global reach with our high tech systems.

CONS blather endlessly about welfare creating sideline sitters, people who know they dont have to lift a finger because good ol government is on the job. Isreal is a perfect example of this. They have sat by and watched US kids die fighting in the middle east for their security. They are equipped with the best technology and its time they control their own destiny.

[valley ranch]

Countries are paying Russia for their presents.

We are borrowing money to give to other countries.

So yep, any country that wants us there can come up with some cash or oil, something so we don't have to give up New York to pay part of the debt.

We after this administration's spending in wild excess are in hock up to our eyeballs.

They're printing money so the dollar is inflated beyond belief.
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Going back in time, Gold was $20 an ounce, Gold hasn't gone up in price, as the dollar is inflated it takes more dollar per ounce.
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We can't afford to man the world, even the bombs we drop and the arms we give to the terrorist, to kill the Syrian people, we had to borrow the money to buy.

Let's come home, we can keep a base or two or ten. Bring them home, and send the mess back where they came from so our boy have a pick at a job.

[PolWatch]

I voted to withdraw from all the areas listed. We need to quit being the world's nanny.

[zelmo1234]

Of course the answer should be none of the above, But those who forget the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat it.

That is where we are at in the USA. But the world populations are too high anyway. It is time for another real war.

[Ransom]

Sorry brothers and sisters, but.....yer it.

Ain't gonna be Russia. Not going to be Australia. Portugal is out. Argentina is where the Pope is from, it ain't gonna be Argentina.

No one looks to Canada. Nobody cares what Turkey is going to do. The UAE ain't gonna help, Zimbabwe either.

Kenya gave us a President, it obviously ain't gonna be Kenya.

:hello:

[Peter1469]

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The USA and UK should keep there militaire in Europe to protect this from Israel


.

You guys need to pay for your own defense.

[Ransom]

Good luck with that. They cannot get Greece off the default line, they cannot facilitate 'refugees' or whatever Pete is calling them this week.

Maybe a regional power...... say Turkey.... start handling ISIS, wmd proliferation, or the EU's economy.

[Mac-7]

It goes without saying how long we've been in certain parts of the world. We're in Japan, WWII is over. We're in South Korea, Korean War is over. Still in Europe, WWII and Cold War are over. We currently have bases in over 50 countries.

Do you think our military should stay in all our foreign bases forever? Some? Would it serve our empire better to let countries like Japan defend themselves and use overseas troops to protect our borders, protecting our own sovereignty for a change?

Naturally the non interventionists/isolationists are going to say pull out because sitting on the fence is their MO.

But if America retreats from the world the bad actors will crawl out from under their rock and take our place.

[Chris]

Sorry brothers and sisters, but.....yer it.

Ain't gonna be Russia. Not going to be Australia. Portugal is out. Argentina is where the Pope is from, it ain't gonna be Argentina.

No one looks to Canada. Nobody cares what Turkey is going to do. The UAE ain't gonna help, Zimbabwe either.

Kenya gave us a President, it obviously ain't gonna be Kenya.

:hello:


No, we are not the world's policeman.

[donttread]

It goes without saying how long we've been in certain parts of the world. We're in Japan, WWII is over. We're in South Korea, Korean War is over. Still in Europe, WWII and Cold War are over. We currently have bases in over 50 countries.

Do you think our military should stay in all our foreign bases forever? Some? Would it serve our empire better to let countries like Japan defend themselves and use overseas troops to protect our borders, protecting our own sovereignty for a change?

Bring the troops home and mind our own business

[Chris]

Bring the troops home and mind our own business

“In politics as in philosophy, my tenets are few and simple. The leading one of which, and indeed that which embraces most others, is to be honest and just ourselves and to exact it from others, meddling as little as possible in their affairs where our own are not involved. If this maxim was generally adopted, wars would cease and our swords would soon be converted into reap hooks and our harvests be more peaceful, abundant, and happy.”
― George Washington

[donttread]

Naturally the non interventionists/isolationists are going to say pull out because sitting on the fence is their MO.

But if America retreats from the world the bad actors will crawl out from under their rock and take our place.


How the hell does a strong "brig our troops home" stance equate to "sitting on the fence" in your mind?

[Chris]

Naturally the non interventionists/isolationists are going to say pull out because sitting on the fence is their MO.

But if America retreats from the world the bad actors will crawl out from under their rock and take our place.


Continued conflation of two different ideas is kind of stupid, don't you think?

The status quo would keep the troops in those place, that would be sitting on a fence.

Leaving those places is not retreat because there's no warn there.

That post was full of stupid things.

[Green Arrow]

Of course the answer should be none of the above, But those who forget the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat it.

That is where we are at in the USA. But the world populations are too high anyway. It is time for another real war.

The problem is the "lessons of history" don't say what you think they say.

[Green Arrow]

It boggles my mind that people still respond seriously to Ransom and Mac-7.

[The Xl]

Of course we should leave.