Green Arrow Talks 2016: The First 2016 Democratic Primary Debate

[Green Arrow]

Let's try to keep this simplified. Instead of 100 threads on the subject, let's keep comments about tonight's Democratic debate here in this thread. As this is posted in the tPFD section, it will maintain a level of reasonable analysis and any stupidity will not be tolerated.

[Green Arrow]

Cheryl Crow? Really CNN? This isn't a damned football game. I half expect the next introduction to be the Cincinnati Bengals and Baltimore Ravens.

[Peter1469]

Light applause on the national anthem...

It started.

[Green Arrow]

Light applause on the national anthem...

It started.

Most of the people there were probably just as confused as I was as to why CNN had someone performing the naitional anthem like this was a foortball game.

[Green Arrow]

BAM! Right out of the gate, Hillary's answer to the first question is a lie. totally not surprised.

[Peter1469]

Softballs. I wouldn't be surprised if the candidates had a list of questions ahead of time.

[Green Arrow]

Softballs. I wouldn't be surprised if the candidates had a list of questions ahead of time.

This was hardly a softball. Anderson Cooper hit Hillary rioght out of the gate like Megyn Kelly hit Trump.

[Peter1469]

This was hardly a softball. Anderson Cooper hit Hillary rioght out of the gate like Megyn Kelly hit Trump.


I don't think so. Her response seemed scripted.

[Green Arrow]

I don't think so. Her response seemed scripted.

Of course her response was scripted. She's a professional politician and a professional at defending her shitty antics. The question was still legitimate and laser-sighted.

[Green Arrow]

I find it interesting that pretty much all the candidates with exception to Hillary are being rational, respectful, and reasonable.

[Captain Obvious]

I find it interesting that pretty much all the candidates with exception to Hillary are being rational, respectful, and reasonable.

Hillary is the most desperate

[Green Arrow]

Hillary is the most desperate

Which is ironic, 'cause she's the front-runner.

[Redrose]

Hillary is the most desperate


I hope she doesn't own a cat. She'll be hostile tonight.

[Common]

Which is ironic, 'cause she's the front-runner.

She has the most to lose tonight

[Captain Obvious]

I hope she doesn't own a cat. She'll be hostile tonight.

I have a hunch Hillary is not a cat person

[Redrose]

I have a hunch Hillary is not a cat person


True, you need feelings, and kindness to own a cat.

I've owned lawn mowers with more emotion than she shows.

[Common]

True, you need feelings, and kindness to own a cat.

I've owned lawn mowers with more emotion than she shows.

lol

[Peter1469]

Of course her response was scripted. She's a professional politician and a professional at defending her shitty antics. The question was still legitimate and laser-sighted.

I never said it was not legitimate. It was a softball, imo.

[Captain Obvious]

True, you need feelings, and kindness to own a cat.

I've owned lawn mowers with more emotion than she shows.

Lawnmowers can be tempermental

[Common]

Drudge already has a poll up asking who won and guess who came in last, surprise surprise lol

http://www.drudgereport.com/

[Green Arrow]

Drudge already has a poll up asking who won and guess who came in last, surprise surprise lol

http://www.drudgereport.com/

As it should be.

[Dr. Who]

I like Sanders' tax on Wall Street speculation to fund college education - just retribution for the global financial crisis and the bailout that they didn't really need.

[Hal Jordan]

Like him or hate him, Colonel Sanders is clearly controlling the debate.

[Redrose]

Lawnmowers can be tempermental


...and if you kick them they run a little better. As much as I'd like to kick.......

[Green Arrow]

I think the only issue where Bernie was a little weak so far was on guns. His rural v. urban argument was a bit thin, but he still has the far most rational position on guns on that stage.

That was the only really weak point in the entire debate, and even then, he wasn't all that weak on it.

[Dr. Who]

Also like Sanders' position on the NSA and he at least voted against the Patriot Act.

[Dr. Who]

Chaffee is like a librarian dropped into a political debate.

[Green Arrow]

Also like Sanders' position on the NSA and he at least voted against the Patriot Act.

Unlike Hillary, who also defended the NSA and condemned Snowden.

[Hal Jordan]

I think the only issue where Bernie was a little weak so far was on guns. His rural v. urban argument was a bit thin, but he still has the far most rational position on guns on that stage.

That was the only really weak point in the entire debate, and even then, he wasn't all that weak on it.

I do think Webb had a more comprehensive answer to the threat question.

[Redrose]

Also like Sanders' position on the NSA and he at least voted against the Patriot Act.


ALL the candidates, Dem and GOP have a good argument on one more more issues. Not one of them is perfect.

I like a thing or two from all of them. Again, the American voter has to choose the one person who is the closest to their own view.

[Dr. Who]

ALL the candidates, Dem and GOP have a good argument on one more more issues. Not one of them is perfect.

I like a thing or two from all of them. Again, the American voter has to choose the one person who is the closest to their own view.
I like his passion and sincerity. He is one person who has been in politics forever, but has never wavered in his beliefs. That's pretty rare. He may not get elected, but he is at least telling the truth and shaming the devil. You can disagree with his politics as being unicorns and rainbows, but he is not an establishment politician and is therefore focusing on eliminating the internal corruption to finance his platform.

[Dr. Who]

I do think Webb had a more comprehensive answer to the threat question.
In general he reminds me more of a Republican than a Democrat. I think he's right in the middle.

[Hal Jordan]

In general he reminds me more of a Republican than a Democrat. I think he's right in the middle.

Well, honestly, most of them are right in the middle.

[Green Arrow]

In general he reminds me more of a Republican than a Democrat. I think he's right in the middle.

Oh, he's definitely in the middle. I respect that. He'd be my second choice in the Democratic race, but let's be frank, he's got no chance. It will be Hillary or Bernie and this debate has given me more optimism about Bernie's chances.

[Common]

As it should be.

well its drudge and I doubt she will come in last in other polls

[Green Arrow]

There's also a difference between Webb's being right in the middle and Hillary's being right in the middle. Hillary's version of "right in the middle" is being a weather vane, pointing in whatever direction the wind is blowing. Webb's version of "right in the middle" is taking rational, reasoned responses to issues without hysteria. He's consistent in his positions regardless of where he is or what heat he's taking for them.

I respect Webb's version and detest Hillary's version.

[Common]

Bernie Sanders cannot win the general election imho

[The Xl]

Bernie Sanders cannot win the general election imho
He can if he faces trump.

[Hal Jordan]

Bernie Sanders cannot win the general election imho

I'm not so sure. He keeps gaining ground, and if that continues, he will definitely be a contender. Also, it depends on who his opponent is. If Trump were to win the Republican nomination, I don't believe he would stand a chance, realistically.

[Green Arrow]

Bernie Sanders cannot win the general election imho

This, again, ignores the realities of our political system. Young people overwhelmingly favor him and the turnout of younger voters is around 20%. Additionally, candidates from both parties, regardless of who they are, start out automatically with 45-49% of the vote right out of the gate, and it will not go lower than 45%. What they are doing is fighting for the other 5-10%. If it's Bernie against someone like Trump or Bush, Bernie wins. Any Democratic candidate against Rubio or Paul, it most likely goes Republican. But again, Bernie is the wild card. He could really beat any Republican candidate except maybe Rand Paul purely because of the younger voters.

[Hal Jordan]

He can if he faces trump.

13053

[Hal Jordan]

I honestly will not understand if Hillary is still the frontrunner after this debate. She really did worse than anyone else on the stage...

[Dr. Who]

There's also a difference between Webb's being right in the middle and Hillary's being right in the middle. Hillary's version of "right in the middle" is being a weather vane, pointing in whatever direction the wind is blowing. Webb's version of "right in the middle" is taking rational, reasoned responses to issues without hysteria. He's consistent in his positions regardless of where he is or what heat he's taking for them.

I respect Webb's version and detest Hillary's version.
Hillary is for the most part playing a cheerleader role. She's very scripted and fails to distinguish herself from the Obama admin. She had a moment of passion about women's rights, but it was brief. Webb is good - he comes across as competent, sincere and in a different scenario could have a chance, however his delivery is almost military - which might appeal to some people but might be a turn off to others.

O'Malley has an appealing personality. He'd be the nice guy president - perhaps another Jimmy Carter type.

Sanders on the other hand is focusing on the source of the ills in America and I think for those like me who see special interests as a growing cancer that is destroying the country from the inside out , he's the only one addressing the issue.

[Common]

He can if he faces trump.

I dont think so, the independents wont vote for him I dont believe.

[Green Arrow]

I dont think so, the independents wont vote for him I dont believe.

Why? Because of the big bad "s" word?

[Dr. Who]

I dont think so, the independents wont vote for him I dont believe.
I don't know. Many of the independents are libertarians and as opposite as socialism is to libertarian, Sanders addresses many issues that concern libertarians. One could look at Sanders as a political antibiotic and a catalyst to change the internal corruption in government.

[Common]

Why? Because of the big bad "s" word?

Yes the S word and some of his positions, if you read about independents they lean very slightly right of center.

[Green Arrow]

Yes the S word and some of his positions, if you read about independents they lean very slightly right of center.

If independents are scared by words, they are stupid.

[Hal Jordan]

Yes the S word and some of his positions, if you read about independents they lean very slightly right of center.

Yet if you know independents, you know they're leaning toward Sanders. Knowing people far outweighs reading about them.

[Dr. Who]

Per CNN Facebook poll gives it to Sanders by a landslide - 75 percent. I think that he has really engaged young people and others who are into social media. Hillary should be worried because many of these people are those who may not be the subject of the regular polls.

[Green Arrow]

Per CNN Facebook poll gives it to Sanders by a landslide - 75 percent. I think that he has really engaged young people and others who are into social media. Hillary should be worried because many of these people are those who may not be the subject of the regular polls.

Not to mention her people working social media need to be fired. She's had plenty of social media blunders that make her look even more dated and out of touch. Ironic, since she's about ten years younger than Sanders.

[Dr. Who]

Not to mention her people working social media need to be fired. She's had plenty of social media blunders that make her look even more dated and out of touch. Ironic, since she's about ten years younger than Sanders.
I think young people respond to passion and sincerity, which Hillary lacks. She's been twisting in the wind for too many years. Sanders may be 10 years older on his birth certificate, but he's about 40 years younger in terms of his attachment to his beliefs.

[zelmo1234]

Sanders will face many problems If he wins the nomination, He is touting a lot of programs of which none are paid for.

His age will work against him as well, as he will have to be very careful in his selection of a VP, which in order to unite the party would certainly need to by Hilary, yet the independents don't want Hillary. Plus if you do get elected and Hillary is your VP, your life wouldn't be worth a wooden nickel.

[Green Arrow]

Sanders will face many problems If he wins the nomination, He is touting a lot of programs of which none are paid for.

All of them are paid for if you read his positions.

[Dr. Who]

Sanders will face many problems If he wins the nomination, He is touting a lot of programs of which none are paid for.

His age will work against him as well, as he will have to be very careful in his selection of a VP, which in order to unite the party would certainly need to by Hilary, yet the independents don't want Hillary. Plus if you do get elected and Hillary is your VP, your life wouldn't be worth a wooden nickel.
Hillary might choose Bernie as a VP, but I doubt that Bernie would choose Hillary as his VP. Hillary is a member of the status quo (despite her platform) that he is fighting and I can't see them working well together with her as his VP or really her accepting.

[zelmo1234]

Hillary might choose Bernie as a VP, but I doubt that Bernie would choose Hillary as his VP. Hillary is a member of the status quo (despite her platform) that he is fighting and I can't see them working well together with her as his VP or really her accepting.

If he does not, he will have NO chance of wining the election as the DNC would be divided 3 ways, the Clinton Wing, the Obama Wing and the Socialists

Without 2 of the 3 backing, he would be destroyed in the General Election.

[Peter1469]

Bernie wouldn't get out the minority vote. A wise VP choice could change that.

[PolWatch]

I don't think the debate changed my opinions of the dem choices.....I could vote for Sanders without holding my nose. If he selected someone like Elizabeth Warren as VP, he could overcome the minority questions. I still like Webb too. The repubs are vulnerable in the 2016 Senate races....if Trump continues to splinter the party, they could end up losing everything.

[Common]

Ok most of the news outlets have varying degrees of Hillary winning the debate, from winning to an exact quote of Hillary Scorched her opponents. If Sanders was mentioned it was in a good light but most just harp on his defense of Hillarys emails.

[zelmo1234]

All of them are paid for if you read his positions.

Yes, I would not retain my citizenship under his plans if they were to pass and I am not that wealthy.

So the way that he is paying for them is going to cause huge revenue declines as people move even more money of shore.

Wealth redistribution is not going to work!

[Matty]

Yes, I would not retain my citizenship under his plans if they were to pass and I am not that wealthy.

So the way that he is paying for them is going to cause huge revenue declines as people move even more money of shore.

Wealth redistribution is not going to work!



How did he say he would pay for them zelmo1234?

[Chloe]

How did he say he would pay for them @zelmo1234 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=588)?

He's going to only use Zelmo's bank account :)

[OGIS]

BAM! Right out of the gate, Hillary's answer to the first question is a lie. totally not surprised.

That first question was a lampshade to address her primary problem, that it was designed to take the question out of play, and that it was designed specifically to make her look good. I would bet money that she knew it was coming and had fine-tuned her response.

[nic34]

BAM! Right out of the gate, Hillary's answer to the first question is a lie. totally not surprised.


If this is just a bash Clinton thread, I think I'll pass......

[Common Sense]

Some heads are literally going to explode.

[Common]

I think young people respond to passion and sincerity, which Hillary lacks. She's been twisting in the wind for too many years. Sanders may be 10 years older on his birth certificate, but he's about 40 years younger in terms of his attachment to his beliefs.

Hillary hasnt been twisting in the wind, shes been powerful but always behind the scenes. Shes never had to come out and say what shes about in a campaign. Sorry Dr Sanders looks like an old tired man

[OGIS]

Hillary might choose Bernie as a VP, but I doubt that Bernie would choose Hillary as his VP. Hillary is a member of the status quo (despite her platform) that he is fighting and I can't see them working well together with her as his VP or really her accepting.

Plus, if she was a heartbeat away from the Presidency, he would have to avoid African plane trips and public parks.

[Green Arrow]

Yes, I would not retain my citizenship under his plans if they were to pass and I am not that wealthy.

So the way that he is paying for them is going to cause huge revenue declines as people move even more money of shore.

Wealth redistribution is not going to work!

It's unfortunate that people love their politics more than their country.

[Green Arrow]

If this is just a bash Clinton thread, I think I'll pass......

It's a comment on the debate thread. If Hillary lies in the debate (she did), it will be talked about and not ignored.

[Matty]

It's unfortunate that people love their politics more than their country.


Punitivie i.e. oppressive taxation is enough to cause you to stop loving your country. Don't you agree?

[Peter1469]

Factcheck.org is on it. (http://www.factcheck.org/2015/10/factchecking-the-democratic-debate/)

Summary (the article is much longer and detailed)




Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton revised her earlier statement on the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal, claiming that she said she “hoped” it would be a “gold standard.” At the time, she said it was a gold standard.
Sen. Bernie Sanders claimed that his plan to lift the cap on income subject to Social Security taxes would extend the program’s finances and expand benefits. He neglected to mention that the new taxes would not be used to calculate benefits for those paying them, a break from historical practice.
Former Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley claimed that “70 percent of us are earning the same, or less than we were 12 years ago.” Not true. Average weekly earnings for rank-and-file workers are up 5.8 percent.
Former Rhode Island Gov. Lincoln Chafee said that his state “had the biggest drop of the unemployment rate over my four budgets of all but one state.” Actually, four states had larger percentage point drops, and 10 states had larger percentage declines over his tenure.
Sanders claimed that African American youth unemployment was 51 percent, but that figure pertains to underemployment, which includes those working part-time and looking for full-time work.
Clinton claimed that “we lose 90 people a day from gun violence.” That’s true, but only a third of those deaths are from homicides.
Sanders wrongly said that the U.S. had “more wealth and income inequality than any other country.” The U.S. ranks 42nd in income inequality and 16th in terms of wealth held by the top 1 percent.
Clinton said that using a personal email account “was allowed by the State Department.” It was, but federal rules also required Clinton to turn over her emails before she left office. She did so nearly two years after she left.

[Common Sense]

As far as half truths in debates, it wasn't too bad.

[Green Arrow]

Punitivie i.e. oppressive taxation is enough to cause you to stop loving your country. Don't you agree?

Nope. I may not like the people running it, but I'll never stop loving it, good or bad.

[Dr. Who]

Ok most of the news outlets have varying degrees of Hillary winning the debate, from winning to an exact quote of Hillary Scorched her opponents. If Sanders was mentioned it was in a good light but most just harp on his defense of Hillarys emails.
Those people who just harp on his defense of Hillary's emails probably didn't actually watch the debate. He didn't defend her emails, he was just sick and tired of everyone focusing on them to the exclusion of real issues.

[OGIS]

Those people who just harp on his defense of Hillary's emails probably didn't actually watch the debate. He didn't defend her emails, he was just sick and tired of everyone focusing on them to the exclusion of real issues.

As far as security and potential exposure, the email thing is a non-issue. I really like how Fox frames the problem: there were emails on her computer that were from hackers. ZOMFG!!! Really? News flash: Everyone in the freaking world has emails from hackers on their computers. It's called spam. You don't open them, you don't open attachments on them, and you move 'em to the trash when the sheer number becomes annoying.

[Dr. Who]

Hillary hasnt been twisting in the wind, shes been powerful but always behind the scenes. Shes never had to come out and say what shes about in a campaign. Sorry Dr Sanders looks like an old tired man
Hillary is professional politician in every sense of the word. Also, it seems to me she campaigned against Obama the first time around.