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Ethereal
10-17-2015, 12:36 PM
RAF given green light to shoot down hostile Russian jets in Syria

By Romil Patel
October 11, 2015 14:33 BST

(International Business Times) - As relations between the West and Russia steadily deteriorate, Royal Air Force (RAF) pilots have been given the go-ahead to shoot down Russian military jets when flying missions over Syria and Iraq, if they are endangered by them. The development comes with warnings that the UK and Russia are now "one step closer" to being at war.

RAF Tornado pilots have been instructed to avoid contact with Russian aircraft while engaged in missions for Operation Shader – the codename for the RAF's anti-Isis work in Iraq and Syria. But their aircraft have been armed with air-to-air missiles and the pilots have been given the green light to defend themselves if they are threatened by Russian pilots.

"The first thing a British pilot will do is to try to avoid a situation where an air-to-air attack is likely to occur — you avoid an area if there is Russian activity," an unidentified source from the UK's Permanent Joint Headquarters (PJHQ) told the Sunday Times. "But if a pilot is fired on or believes he is about to be fired on, he can defend himself. We now have a situation where a single pilot, irrespective of nationality, can have a strategic impact on future events."

The RAF Tornados aircraft will be armed with heat-seeking Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missiles (Asraams, also called AIM-132 missiles). These weapons, which cost £200,000 each, can reach triple the speed of sound and have a longer range than other air-to-air missiles, allowing RAF pilots to shoot down enemy aircraft without being targeted themselves.

The Sunday Times' report quoted a defence source as saying: "Up till now RAF Tornados have been equipped with 500lb satellite-guided bombs — there has been no or little air-to-air threat. But in the last week the situation has changed. We need to respond accordingly."

"We need to protect our pilots but at the same time we're taking a step closer to war," said another source. "It will only take one plane to be shot down in an air-to-air battle and the whole landscape will change."

Why are the US and UK governments risking a war with a nuclear power over a regime that poses absolutely no threat to either country and which 99% of people in American and Britain couldn't locate on a map if their lives depended on it?

Is "insane" a fitting description of US and UK policy in Syria?

Peter1469
10-17-2015, 12:45 PM
I think this is a typical order in a situation where there is ambiguity over control of the air (or ground). I see it as telling your pilots to defend yourself if needed and don't get shot down yourself. But you are correct, in situations like this, the risk for a war to start by accident goes up.

I don't think the Russians will provoke allied aircraft. They will however, bomb the crap out of our moderate rebels.

Ethereal
10-17-2015, 12:56 PM
So what strategic or national interest do Americans and Brits have in supporting these allegedly "moderate" rebels that would justify risking a war with a nuclear power like Russia?

Common
10-17-2015, 01:02 PM
So what strategic or national interest do Americans and Brits have in supporting these allegedly "moderate" rebels that would justify risking a war with a nuclear power like Russia?

Evidently the same reason that russia is in there bombing what that reason is eludes me. It is curious that they are all into syria.

Peter1469
10-17-2015, 01:07 PM
So what strategic or national interest do Americans and Brits have in supporting these allegedly "moderate" rebels that would justify risking a war with a nuclear power like Russia?

I don't see any for the US. The Brits can speak for themselves.

We should never have gotten involved in Syria.

Peter1469
10-17-2015, 01:08 PM
Evidently the same reason that russia is in there bombing what that reason is eludes me. It is curious that they are all into syria.

Their only navy base on the Med is there. They are also allied with Assad. It also helps them in negotiations over the Ukraine.

Ethereal
10-17-2015, 01:24 PM
Evidently the same reason that russia is in there bombing what that reason is eludes me. It is curious that they are all into syria.

Russia is in Syria because the Syrian government are their allies and because Russia has a naval base in the port of Tartus. The presence of ISIS, AQ, and other Sunni terrorist groups in Syria represent a threat to Russia's vital interests.

Ethereal
10-17-2015, 01:31 PM
There is also the basic matter of Syria's proximity to Russia. Their borders are only about 1,000 kilometers away from one another.

valley ranch
10-17-2015, 02:58 PM
Not on more bullet, tank, or anti aircraft missile to the muslim crazies.

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Weapons we've given to the Turks are available to Azerbaijan.

The Xl
10-17-2015, 03:18 PM
There is also the basic matter of Syria's proximity to Russia. Their borders are only about 1,000 kilometers away from one another.
This is the most important bit. Those asserting that Russias actions are no different than ours are either misinformed or not being intellectually honest. If terrorists and Russian proxies were anywhere near us, we'd be in WW3 already.

Ethereal
10-17-2015, 03:38 PM
This is the most important bit. Those asserting that Russias actions are no different than ours are either misinformed or not being intellectually honest. If terrorists and Russian proxies were anywhere near us, we'd be in WW3 already.

Indeed. Yet Russia is just expected to submissively accept what the US would never, ever accept in a million years.

Green Arrow
10-17-2015, 05:02 PM
Evidently the same reason that russia is in there bombing what that reason is eludes me. It is curious that they are all into syria.

The Russians are there because they need a Syrian port on the Mediterranean for strategic interests. Also, they have a good relationship with Assad and we are (for reasons that elude me) determined to overthrow Assad.

Frankly, the Russians have far more valid reason to be involved than we do.

Green Arrow
10-17-2015, 05:03 PM
I thought it was awesome that Bernie called out Hillary on her Syrian "no fly zone" idea in the debate, I didn't expect that but it was certainly welcome.

Ethereal
10-17-2015, 05:28 PM
I thought it was awesome that Bernie called out Hillary on her Syrian "no fly zone" idea in the debate, I didn't expect that but it was certainly welcome.

Must be because he hates America.

donttread
10-17-2015, 07:40 PM
Why are the US and UK governments risking a war with a nuclear power over a regime that poses absolutely no threat to either country and which 99% of people in American and Britain couldn't locate on a map if their lives depended on it?

Is "insane" a fitting description of US and UK policy in Syria?

Why to please the megacorp overlords and feed the global military industrial complex of course

Common
10-17-2015, 08:16 PM
Russia is in Syria because the Syrian government are their allies and because Russia has a naval base in the port of Tartus. The presence of ISIS, AQ, and other Sunni terrorist groups in Syria represent a threat to Russia's vital interests.

ahh ok thanks