Even more persecution of Christians

[OGIS]

Precious Snowflake disturbed by being asked to exercise critical thinking skills.

http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/neighborhood/2015/10/27/student-says-teacher-taught-god-not-real/74723050/

13247 (http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/neighborhood/2015/10/27/student-says-teacher-taught-god-not-real/74723050/)

The horror... the horror....

[Safety]

Maybe the school's resource officer could knock some sense into her.

[waltky]

Persecution of Christians in Egypt...
http://www.politicalforum.com/images/smilies/icon_omg.gif
Muslim mob attacks Christians, parade naked woman
May 26, 2016 — An armed Muslim mob stripped an elderly Christian woman and paraded her naked on the streets in an attack last week in which seven Christian homes were also looted and torched in a province south of the Egyptian capital.


According to the local Orthodox Coptic church and security officials, the assault in the Minya province village of Karma on Friday began after rumors spread that the elderly woman's son had an affair with a Muslim woman - a taboo in conservative Egypt. Police have arrested six men suspected of taking part in the violence and are looking for 12 more, the security officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media. President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi called for the culprits to be held accountable and gave the military a month to restore property damaged during the violence, at no cost to the owners.

In a statement issued Thursday by his office, el-Sissi said Egypt appreciates the role of "glorious Egyptian women" and that "the rights and the protection of their dignity are a humanitarian and patriotic commitment before being a legal and constitutional one." Anba Makarios, Minya's top Christian cleric, told a talk show host on the private Dream TV network that the 70-year-old woman was dragged out of her home by the mob who beat her and insulted her before they stripped her off her clothes and forced her to walk through the streets as they chanted Allahu Akbar, or "God is great." The woman reported the incident to the police five days later, said Makarios, adding that she had initially found it too difficult to "swallow the humiliation" she suffered and go to the police.

Attiyah Ayad, a 58-year-old farmer from a nearby village who witnessed the attack, described how the mob chanted "we must drive the infidels out" as they looted and burned the Christian homes, one of which belonged to his relatives. He said they were armed with firearms, knifes and sticks. "They emptied magazine after magazine, firing in the air to terrorize us," said Ayad, who suffered a head injury from being hit by a rifle butt and his son Ayad, 30, sustained a deep knife wound in his left shoulder. The incident, intensely publicized since Wednesday night, has unleashed a flurry of condemnations on social media networks where users blamed the influence of ultraconservative Salafi Muslims for the attacks and derided authorities for not reacting quickly.

The hashtag "Egypt stripped naked" on Twitter gained traction shortly after it was introduced. Extramarital affairs or sex between unmarried couples are taboo among Muslims and Christians in Egypt. They often attract violent reactions in rural areas, where questions of honor can lead to deadly family feuds that endure for years or result in ostracizing the perpetrators. Christian men cannot marry Muslim women in Egypt unless they convert to Islam first, but Muslim men can marry Christian women. An affair between a Christian man and a Muslim woman takes such sectarian sensitivities to a much higher and dangerous level and often lead to violence if found out.

MORE (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/nation_world/20160526_ap_0df5295f1c6849db98eb1e7ffe7c0338.html)

[Chris]

Ill-conceived, Katy ISD says, so perhaps the teacher needs an exercise critical thinking skills.

Let's play hypocrisy: If God is not supposed to be introduced in public schools then why is not-God allowed?

[zelmo1234]

The way that I see it, this teacher brought Religion, (god) into the public school system

I would use the Democrats version of the Separation of Church and State and make sue that she was fired.

After all rules are rules.

[leekohler2]

Ill-conceived, Katy ISD says, so perhaps the teacher needs an exercise critical thinking skills.

Let's play hypocrisy: If God is not supposed to be introduced in public schools then why is not-God allowed?

Neither should be.

[Private Pickle]

Precious Snowflake disturbed by being asked to exercise critical thinking skills.

http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/neighborhood/2015/10/27/student-says-teacher-taught-god-not-real/74723050/

13247 (http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/neighborhood/2015/10/27/student-says-teacher-taught-god-not-real/74723050/)

The horror... the horror....

Critical thinking skills? For a 7th grader? Yeah you can't teach god exists in school but you can teach kids god doesn't exist? The teacher needs to be fired.

[donttread]

Precious Snowflake disturbed by being asked to exercise critical thinking skills.

http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/neighborhood/2015/10/27/student-says-teacher-taught-god-not-real/74723050/

13247 (http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/neighborhood/2015/10/27/student-says-teacher-taught-god-not-real/74723050/)

The horror... the horror....

Did it occur to anyone that the teacher wants her to think for herself and study the other opinions?

[waltky]

Conservative Leaders Call on MSM to Report on Genocide of Christians...
http://www.politicalforum.com/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif
Conservative Leaders Call on Media to Report on Genocide of Christians
August 11, 2016 – In an August 10 letter to ABC, CBS, and NBC, more than 30 conservative leaders called on the networks, and the media overall, to seriously and aggressively cover the genocide of Christians in the Middle East and Africa, “and continue to do so until the civilized world puts an end to this evil.”


“Christianity is on the verge of being wiped out in the Middle East,” the letter reads. “Ancient communities that have existed since the time of the apostles are being systematically eliminated. In Iraq alone, the number of Christians has plunged from one million to under 275,000 in the last 12 years alone.” “This is not a few instances of violence or vandalism,” states the letter. “This is a Genocide.” Thousands of Christians have been slaughtered by the Islamic State in Iraq, Syria, and Libya, and tens of thousands of Christians have fled their homelands into refugee camps in Jordan and other countries. Christians are also being killed in Africa and South Asia by radical Muslims.

The U.S. government officially declared this atrocity “genocide” in March 2016, and other governments and human rights leaders started calling it genocide as early as 2013. Yet a new study by the Media Research Center (MRC) shows that for two-and-a-half years (January 2014 -- June 2016), the networks ABC, CBS, and NBC have reported on the persecution of Christians in the Middle East, Africa, and South Asia just 60 times. In only six of those reports did the networks use the word “genocide.” “Christians have been murdered -- often mass murders – in a dozen countries,” reads the letter. “Islamic terrorists have tortured, beheaded, crucified or burned alive priests, nuns and worshippers alike. Families are routinely broken up and women are forced into sexual slavery.” “Stunningly, almost none of it has made the evening news broadcasts, and the networks almost never called what it is: genocide,” states the letter. “It is long past time for the media to report on the extent of this historic calamity.”


http://cdn.cnsnews.com/styles/front_page_primary_featured/s3/mother_and_son.jpg?itok=x6_jNYDc

It continues, “Even though some traditional print outlets have covered this horror, America’s main source for news, the broadcast networks, have shamefully neglected to do so. ABC, NBC and CBS have only sporadically reported on the ethnic cleansing of some of the world’s oldest Christian sects from Iraq and Syria, and the bloody fate of those who remained. And even after this administration finally acknowledged this is a genocide, they continue to avoid using ‘genocide’ to describe what ISIS and affiliated Muslim extremists are inflicting on Christians in the Middle East, Africa and South Asia even now.” “We the undersigned, therefore, respectfully call on the media, especially the broadcast networks, to start covering this atrocity, calling it what it is – a genocide – and continue to do so until the civilized world puts an end to this evil,” reads the letter. “This is your duty as journalists and your moral obligation as citizens.”

The letter is signed by conservative leaders such as Ambassador Kenneth Blackwell, MRC President Brent Bozell, Armenian Archbishop Oshagan Choloyan, National Review Publisher Jack Fowler, Andrea Lafferty of the Traditional Values Coalition, musician and columnist Charlie Daniels, Tea Party Nation Founder Judson Phillips, Morton Blackwell, Gary Bauer, Brigitte Gabriel of ACT for America, and Catholic League President Bill Donohue.

Source (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/conservative-leaders-call-media-report-genocide-christians)

See also:

More Than 30 Conservative Leaders: Media Must Report on the Christian Genocide
August 10, 2016 | Christianity is on the verge of being wiped out in the Middle East. Ancient communities that have existed since the time of the apostles are being systematically eliminated. In Iraq alone, the number of Christians has plunged from one million to under 275,000 in the last 12 years alone.


This is not a few instances of violence or vandalism. This is a Genocide. And in March of this year, the U.S. State Department finally made it official.

But journalists have long known this or should have known. The horrors that are being perpetrated against Christians in the Middle East are savage and barbaric and systemic. As documented by a number of Christian groups, islamic terrorists have attacked and sometimes wiped out entire Christian neighborhoods and villages. ISIS has desecrated hundreds of churches and destroyed ancient Christian holy sites in acts of “cultural cleansing.” Christians have been murdered -- often mass murders – in a dozen countries. Islamic terrorists have tortured, beheaded, crucified or burned alive priests, nuns and worshippers alike. Families are routinely broken up and women are forced into sexual slavery. Stunningly, almost none of it has made the evening news broadcasts, and the networks almost never called what it is: genocide.

It is long past time for the media to report on the extent of this historic calamity. Even though some traditional print outlets have covered this horror, America’s main source for news, the broadcast networks, have shamefully neglected to do so. ABC, NBC and CBS have only sporadically reported on the ethnic cleansing of some of the world’s oldest Christian sects from Iraq and Syria, and the bloody fate of those who remained. And even after this administration finally acknowledged this is a genocide, they continue to avoid using “genocide” to describe what ISIS and affiliated Muslim extremists are inflicting on Christians in the Middle East, Africa and South Asia even now.

We the undersigned, therefore, respectfully call on the media, especially the broadcast networks, to start covering this atrocity, calling it what it is – a genocide – and continue to do so until the civilized world puts an end to this evil. This is your duty as journalists and your moral obligation as citizens.

Signed, (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nb-staff/2016/08/10/media-must-report-christian-genocide)

Related:

Shameful Silence
8/9/2016 - ABC, CBS and NBC Have Ignored Christian Genocide


What Genocide?: Between January 2014 and June 2016, the network evening news shows referred to persecution against Christians in the Middle East, Africa and South Asia just 60 times. Despite telling of murders, forced religious conversions and mass displacement, the networks refused to add up the thousands of atrocities to what they clearly amount to: genocide. Just six of the 60 reports used the word genocide. Put another way, over two years, they mentioned the Christian genocide on just four separate days. Even when Secretary of State John Kerry officially declared in March 2016 that ISIS was engaging in genocide, CBS didn’t report it.

Media Kept Calling Darfur ‘Genocide’: During the George W. Bush administration, the networks had no problem calling the situation in Darfur genocide, even before the U.S. officially called it that. Once it did, they referred to the Darfur “genocide” 38 times in two years.

Journalists Should Have Known: If network reporters had even connected the dots of their own reports, they should have known and reported on what was really happening to Christians. By their own reporting, hundreds of thousands of Christians are “on the run” from their homes, mass graves have been found, and Christians have been made to “convert or die.” In addition, network journalists could have watched their own news magazine shows. Both ABC’s Nightline and CBS’s Sixty Minutes have aired excellent long-form stories on the atrocities, though neither show used the word genocide.

Downplaying The Slaughter: The six instances where the networks have used “genocide” or equivalent terms, they’ve tended to lump Christians in
with Yazidis and Shia Muslims as victims, echoing the Obama administration’s reluctance to focus on the anti-Christian violence. During the two years MRC Culture analyzed, one source has recorded 226 Muslim- on-Christian attacks. At least 125 churches have been attacked. According to one Christian group, 7,000 Christians worldwide were killed because of their faith in 2015 alone. Yet even when the Obama administration has (officially and unofficially) called the Christian persecution in Iraq and Syria genocide, the networks almost never used the word.

MORE (http://www.mrc.org/special-reports/shameful-silence)

[William]

Precious Snowflake disturbed by being asked to exercise critical thinking skills.

http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/neighborhood/2015/10/27/student-says-teacher-taught-god-not-real/74723050/

13247 (http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/neighborhood/2015/10/27/student-says-teacher-taught-god-not-real/74723050/)

The horror... the horror....

AFIK, the US 7th Grade is the same as our 1st Form (first year high school) and most kids are around 13 (roughly my age when I joined this forum) so they should be totally capable of doing critical thinking exercises. We did similar assignments but the questions were more sensible (like why should every kid be interested in some retired basketball player - and who says 'America' is the most free country on earth - America consists of two continents, and is not a single country neway).

Whatever - the assertion that there is a God is obviously not proven fact - it is a belief which should be respected as such (by well-mannered people, at least) - but it is not a fact in the same way that your mum or dad exists.

http://3ynk0w1orym5czc542xmo55k.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Jordan-assignment.jpg

But it was dead easy - the existence of a God is a popular assertion, and it could be also be an opinion, but it is certainly not a proven fact - end of.

I think the teacher was not too clever to include that question, but there is no way any sane person could claim that she was telling that kid that there is no God. The whiney little madam should have got a swift kick where the sun don't shine, and told to pay more attention to her teacher.

[Mac-7]

Did it occur to anyone that the teacher wants her to think for herself and study the other opinions?

What "other opinions?"

God is banned from public schools and so should anti God zealotry like the athiest teacher is preaching

[AeonPax]

`
`
a) The teacher was an imbecile for mentioning that. b) This entire "persecution of Christians" in the US, has already become a comical meme;
`
`
`

http://s10.postimg.org/88r3do115/war_on_religion.jpg

[Mac-7]

`
`
a) The teacher was an imbecile for mentioning that. b) This entire "persecution of Christians" in the US, has already become a comical meme;
`
`
`

http://s10.postimg.org/88r3do115/war_on_religion.jpg


Liberals want a combination socialist/communist/fascist society and true Christians stand in the way

[Standing Wolf]

Yes, the teacher should certainly have known that introducing "God" in any context was a potential quagmire. Poor judgment, but nowhere close to being a firing offense.

That said, it is vitally important for any child (or adult) to understand the difference between knowledge based on fact and faith based on subjective feelings. For someone to point out, through this or some other type of exercise, that religious belief is an example of the latter should not be a huge bone of contention. To label it "persecution" is patently ridiculous.

I very much doubt that any Christian would have objected had the teacher's lesson or exercise included a question about someone's belief that the universe emerged from a lotus growing out of the navel of Krishna, or that the goddess Athena sprang from the forehead of Zeus...yet Christians must accept that to a non-believer, their theology is every bit as based in faith and legend, as opposed to provable facts.

Despite the Bible's reminders (from Paul, especially) that the knowledge of God is not of this world, many Christians today seem to want to substitute concepts like "intelligent design" for the peace that transcends all understanding. They talk among themselves about the importance of faith, but seem to resent it rather a lot when an outsider reminds them that, yes, their beliefs are based on faith, and it isn't honest to pretend otherwise.

[Subdermal]

Ill-conceived, Katy ISD says, so perhaps the teacher needs an exercise critical thinking skills.

Let's play hypocrisy: If God is not supposed to be introduced in public schools then why is not-God allowed?

I was just going to post this. Well done.

[AZ Jim]

I believe the classroom is a place for reading, writing, math, etc. Church is the place for the God subjects.

[Bo-4]

Part of critical thinking is learning to make an argument for a position you may not agree with.

It would be like asking me to make an argument that Trump should be our next president.

I could do that - closed minded boneheads couldn't and would raise a big stink like this girl and her mother.

All that said, it was a bad idea on the part of the teacher.

[donttread]

AFIK, the US 7th Grade is the same as our 1st Form (first year high school) and most kids are around 13 (roughly my age when I joined this forum) so they should be totally capable of doing critical thinking exercises. We did similar assignments but the questions were more sensible (like why should every kid be interested in some retired basketball player - and who says 'America' is the most free country on earth - America consists of two continents, and is not a single country neway).

Whatever - the assertion that there is a God is obviously not proven fact - it is a belief which should be respected as such (by well-mannered people, at least) - but it is not a fact in the same way that your mum or dad exists.

http://3ynk0w1orym5czc542xmo55k.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Jordan-assignment.jpg

But it was dead easy - the existence of a God is a popular assertion, and it could be also be an opinion, but it is certainly not a proven fact - end of.

I think the teacher was not too clever to include that question, but there is no way any sane person could claim that she was telling that kid that there is no God. The whiney little madam should have got a swift kick where the sun don't shine, and told to pay more attention to her teacher.

I hate to throw such synacism at you my young friend. But what make's you think that either your government or ours wants to teach kids critical thinking? Critical thinking is for citizens, I see a world more and more full of subjects

[exotix]

Nobody knows if God exists or not ... in fact, the beauty of God is the ontological argument that he can never be known ... which is atheism ... that's right, we're all atheists ...

[William]

I hate to throw such synacism at you my young friend. But what make's you think that either your government or ours wants to teach kids critical thinking? Critical thinking is for citizens, I see a world more and more full of subjects

Well, I don't see that at cynicism - I see that as your beliefs, which you are totally entitled to. I wouldn't be so ill-mannered as to question your spiritual beliefs, but I don't totally agree with your, and many other Americans', view of government. I see democratic government as a way of getting things which we can't do individually done, and if they don't generally do what we want them to do - we elect someone who we think will.

[AZ Jim]

Ill-conceived, Katy ISD says, so perhaps the teacher needs an exercise critical thinking skills.

Let's play hypocrisy: If God is not supposed to be introduced in public schools then why is not-God allowed?I believe the entire subject should be left out of Public schools.

[FindersKeepers]

Critical thinking is a great skill to hone in students, but teachers can accomplish that without broaching religion, which, in the public school system, is off limits.

[William]

Critical thinking is a great skill to hone in students, but teachers can accomplish that without broaching religion, which, in the public school system, is off limits.

I agree the question about God was pretty clumsy, but as far as I can see it had nothing to do with religion. All it asked her to do was tell the difference between a number of assertions. She comes from a fundie protestant family and she misunderstood the question. All she had to do was accept her answer wasn't correct within the context of the lesson - she was much more in the wrong than the teacher. The question about God made perfect sense, cos that is a good example of a widely held belief, which is respected, but does not represent proven fact as we understand the word.

[FindersKeepers]

I agree the question about God was pretty clumsy, but as far as I can see it had nothing to do with religion. All it asked her to do was tell the difference between a number of assertions. She comes from a fundie protestant family and she misunderstood the question. All she had to do was accept her answer wasn't correct within the context of the lesson - she was much more in the wrong than the teacher. The question about God made perfect sense, cos that is a good example of a widely held belief, which is respected, but does not represent proven fact as we understand the word.

It "makes perfect sense" to someone who hasn't been inundated in a theocratic way of thinking. But, just by looking at devout followers of various religions, we can see that their "faith" is taken as fact. No, their religious belief does not make sense to outsiders, but it does to them, and many, many years ago we figured out that it's not helpful to try and force anyone to either believe or disbelieve religious tenets.

The teacher is probably young and silly, but should have realized he/she was putting the entire school at legal risk by choosing that topic to make his/her point.

And, of course, that's why the school dropped immediately into apology mode.

[William]

It "makes perfect sense" to someone who hasn't been inundated in a theocratic way of thinking. But, just by looking at devout followers of various religions, we can see that their "faith" is taken as fact. No, their religious belief does not make sense to outsiders, but it does to them, and many, many years ago we figured out that it's not helpful to try and force anyone to either believe or disbelieve religious tenets.

The teacher is probably young and silly, but should have realized he/she was putting the entire school at legal risk by choosing that topic to make his/her point.

And, of course, that's why the school dropped immediately into apology mode.

I understand what you are saying, and I have been taught to respect the religious beliefs of everyone. But I think we all have to understand that this critical thinking exercise had nothing to do with religion, or the belief in God. Like I said, we had a similar assignment last year - except it did not have a question about God - and one of the assertions was "My country is the freest and most democratic country in the world." None of us classified that as fact, even though most probably thought that was so. But it was clearly an opinion.

Could we all have been accused of being unpatriotic cos we did not consider that a proven fact? And can you see the similarity to religion? To many people I have met, patriotism and national pride is similar to religion. My best mate's dad is an ex-serviceman, and I would probably never be allowed in their house if I said Australia wasn't 'the best country in the world'. To him, everything Aussie is best, so it's a belief, like the existence of God.

This - was - not - about - God - or - religion. And making it so, is what is silly - not the teacher.

[FindersKeepers]

I understand what you are saying, and I have been taught to respect the religious beliefs of everyone. But I think we all have to understand that this critical thinking exercise had nothing to do with religion, or the belief in God. Like I said, we had a similar assignment last year - except it did not have a question about God - and one of the assertions was "My country is the freest and most democratic country in the world." None of us classified that as fact, even though most probably thought that was so. But it was clearly an opinion.

I hear ya -- but for a child who has been taught that God is a fact and that every little flower is proof of that -- it's going to seem threatening to be asked to think in any way that does not verify that thought. It would be the same thing if the question had to do with girls not being as strong as males, blacks not scoring as high on IQ tests or any one of a number of questions that makes a child feel badly. We have topics and issues that, yes, can be considered as supported by fact (at least in part) and yet they are not suitable for debate in a public classroom.




This - was - not - about - God - or - religion. And making it so, is what is silly - not the teacher.

I disagree. The subject matter was out of line.

Some topics, even if used as an example, are off-limits in certain places. Asking a child to separate the exercise from challenging her faith is asking too much. She felt challenged. She said as much, and she refused to give the answer because it made her feel badly. We can call her a baby -- call her a snowflake -- call her a sissy, but it doesn't change the fact that she could not give the "correct" answer because she felt it was an affront to her beliefs.

The teacher could have used limitless examples to show critical thinking.

I put the blame squarely on the teacher for this one.

[Ethereal]

Precious Snowflake disturbed by being asked to exercise critical thinking skills.

http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/neighborhood/2015/10/27/student-says-teacher-taught-god-not-real/74723050/

13247 (http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/neighborhood/2015/10/27/student-says-teacher-taught-god-not-real/74723050/)

The horror... the horror....

Questioning one's faith in God can be incredibly painful, especially for a child.

Way to be compassionate and understanding.

[Ethereal]

Did it occur to anyone that the teacher wants her to think for herself and study the other opinions?

Unless the parents specifically requested it, there was no reason for the teacher to do this. You can teach logic without delving into religious beliefs.

[William]

I hear ya -- but for a child who has been taught that God is a fact and that every little flower is proof of that -- it's going to seem threatening to be asked to think in any way that does not verify that thought. It would be the same thing if the question had to do with girls not being as strong as males, blacks not scoring as high on IQ tests or any one of a number of questions that makes a child feel badly. We have topics and issues that, yes, can be considered as supported by fact (at least in part) and yet they are not suitable for debate in a public classroom.

First off, she is not a little kid - she is only a year younger than me.

More importantly - isn't that the purpose of teaching critical thinking? Not to accept everything that everyone tells you, without any evidence, as fact? Isn't it better to teach kids to use reason?

When I was little, I used to think there was this fat old geezer who used to squeeze down the chimney every Christmas eve to leave me, and millions of other kids presents - like a bicycle - which wouldn't fit down your average chimney anyway. Nobody told me he was made up, but as I got older I realised the impossibility of the proposition, and that it had to be my mum and dad - and Father Christmas was a pointless but harmless lie. Upstairs for thinking, and the sooner kids do that - the better.


I disagree. The subject matter was out of line.

Some topics, even if used as an example, are off-limits in certain places. Asking a child to separate the exercise from challenging her faith is asking too much. She felt challenged. She said as much, and she refused to give the answer because it made her feel badly. We can call her a baby -- call her a snowflake -- call her a sissy, but it doesn't change the fact that she could not give the "correct" answer because she felt it was an affront to her beliefs.

The teacher could have used limitless examples to show critical thinking.

I put the blame squarely on the teacher for this one.

I respect your right to disagree. But you are still arguing as though this is a question about God and religion. It is about logical thought, and questioning what you have been told. That will sometimes make us feel uncomfortable, and we won't always like doing that.

The fact is there is no proof of a God - I have been brought up to be a good C of E boy, and I may be uncomfortable with that thought. But for me to misinterpret a lesson which is not about that thing, and to go home and tell lies about what I have been told, and to get the teacher in trouble, is not something which should be allowed to happen - no matter what your or my beliefs are.

You say that you disagree with my statement that this was not about God - but you give no reason to support your disagreement. Am I expected to accept that just cos you say so? In what way was the requirement to classify a statement connected to religious belief? It is only cos the girl is from a religious fundie family that she saw it as that. No sensible person could do that, so how could you? :huh:

[FindersKeepers]

First off, she is not a little kid - she is only a year younger than me.

More importantly - isn't that the purpose of teaching critical thinking? Not to accept everything that everyone tells you, without any evidence, as fact? Isn't it better to teach kids to use reason?

Now, you have revealed yourself. I agree that it's good to teach children to reason, but if you step on the faith of their parents in doing so -- you've crossed the line. Because, it's simply not your business to show them the error of their faith's ways.



I respect your right to disagree. But you are still arguing as though this is a question about God and religion. It is about logical thought, and questioning what you have been told. That will sometimes make us feel uncomfortable, and we won't always like doing that.

It WAS a question of faith for the student. Her interpretation -- not yours -- is all that matters.


The fact is there is no proof of a God - I have been brought up to be a good C of E boy, and I may be uncomfortable with that thought. But for me to misinterpret a lesson which is not about that thing, and to go home and tell lies about what I have been told, and to get the teacher in trouble, is not something which should be allowed to happen - no matter what your or my beliefs are.

I've been an atheist since before you were born, and I used to be pretty in-your-face about it but I grew up and realize that it's not my business to force others to question their beliefs.


You say that you disagree with my statement that this was not about God - but you give no reason to support your disagreement. Am I expected to accept that just cos you say so? In what way was the requirement to classify a statement connected to religious belief? It is only cos the girl is from a religious fundie family that she saw it as that. No sensible person could do that, so how could you? :huh:

The emboldened part of your sentence is telling. She felt it was connected to her belief system, and, as such, she felt threatened.

In good conscience, I can not continue debate with a 13 year old. I commend you for your interest, but due to the nature of some of the things discussed on this forum, I don't think you should even be posting here. I would only suggest that you continue your studies and try to keep an open mind as you learn more about the world.

[donttread]

Precious Snowflake disturbed by being asked to exercise critical thinking skills.

http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/neighborhood/2015/10/27/student-says-teacher-taught-god-not-real/74723050/

13247 (http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/neighborhood/2015/10/27/student-says-teacher-taught-god-not-real/74723050/)

The horror... the horror....

Bad teachers can be a blessing, they help us learn to question authority . This little girl's bad grade should be thrown out and she will leave with the knowledge that not all adults should be believed.
The teacher? Can her ass for blatant stupidity and move on. No one damaged for life here , just lessons learned.

[donttread]

Bad teachers can be a blessing, they help us learn to question authority . This little girl's bad grade should be thrown out and she will leave with the knowledge that not all adults should be believed.
The teacher? Can her ass for blatant stupidity and move on. No one damaged for life here , just lessons learned.

I had commented in may that perhaps the teacher wanted answers to chalange the assignment's authority but having read about it in more detail the above is my opinion.

[donttread]

Unless the parents specifically requested it, there was no reason for the teacher to do this. You can teach logic without delving into religious beliefs.

Correct. I responsed in May without knowing that the teacher rejected disenting opinions . Please see responses 31 and 32

[Bo-4]

Questioning one's faith in God can be incredibly painful, especially for a child.

Way to be compassionate and understanding.

Agree with you that it was a dumb move on the part of the teacher.

However, children are most often indoctrinated into religion as a small child. At some point, it is good for them to have their belief's question though probably not at that age.

My parents took me to about ten different types of churches as a child, almost weekly over a period of about two years.

Then they gave me the choice of choosing one, or none at all.

I chose the latter, and consider myself spiritual but agnostic.

Did the same thing with my kid. She's 22 now, and an occasional church goer.

[William]

Now, you have revealed yourself.

IDK what you mean by 'revealed yourself'. If you mean I am still in school - I never made a secret of that from the day I joined here. Ask any of the members here.


I agree that it's good to teach children to reason, but if you step on the faith of their parents in doing so -- you've crossed the line. Because, it's simply not your business to show them the error of their faith's ways.

I totally agree, but the putting of a statement into the correct category in the context of the exercise, is not stepping on the faith of anyone. It has nothing to do with faith.


It WAS a question of faith for the student. Her interpretation -- not yours -- is all that matters.

With respect, I don't think that is correct. The intention of the person who set the paper is what matters, not my interpretation, or the girl's. It was a class in critical thinking, so I don't think anyone has the right to claim it had anything to do with religious beliefs.


I've been an atheist since before you were born, and I used to be pretty in-your-face about it but I grew up and realize that it's not my business to force others to question their beliefs.

I don't think I am an atheist, but I don't see what either atheism or religious belief has to do with what we are talking about.


The emboldened part of your sentence is telling. She felt it was connected to her belief system, and, as such, she felt threatened.

If they have a belief system, everyone is connected to it - or it wouldn't be their belief system. But I don't know why I can't get you, and others here, to understand that neither the exercise, nor the statement, had anything to do with God, religion, or anyone's belief system. The class was clearly in critical thinking, and the exercise was not telling anyone about any beliefs.

If I were unhappy about a question like that (something like "your mum is a slag",) I would say to my teacher that I didn't believe that, and my teacher would tell me he understood why I didn't believe that cos he didn't either. But he would explain that all I had to do was put that statement into the correct category of 'fact', or 'opinion'. And that would be that - I wouldn't go crying to my dad and say my teacher called my mum a slag.


In good conscience, I can not continue debate with a 13 year old. I commend you for your interest, but due to the nature of some of the things discussed on this forum, I don't think you should even be posting here. I would only suggest that you continue your studies and try to keep an open mind as you learn more about the world.

Couple of things I need to clarify. We don't know exactly how old the girl is, but we think she was 13 when she was in the first form (7th grade) last year, so we assume she is 14 now. Being a year older than her now, I am 15, not 13 (I was 13 when I joined here,) and we had sex ed in class already, so you can relax about me being too young for some of the things discussed on this board. 15 (and even 14) is quite old enough to discuss grown-up topics. I don't pretend to know about all stuff, but everyone here has been very welcoming and helpful towards me, and I have learnt loads here already. If I am wrong about something, I am happy to learn why. :smiley:

[Standing Wolf]

I agree that it's good to teach children to reason, but if you step on the faith of their parents in doing so -- you've crossed the line. Because, it's simply not your business to show them the error of their faith's ways.

Not all family "articles of faith" are religious; not everything taught as "fact" by parents deals with religion. Many parents teach their children some very ugly "truths" about the world and other people. (I briefly considered posting photos of some of those kids here, but you know what I'm referring to, I'm sure.) Then, of course, as William pointed out, there are parents who instruct their children in what they consider to be certain political "realities"...and who demand (at least outward) compliance with those beliefs. Are those situations substantively different from this one?

A number of years ago, I predicted that public school instruction, at some point in the future, would consist of each child sitting in his or her private cubicle, with a headset and a computer screen, receiving individualized instruction that had been pre-approved by that child's parents or legal guardians. Is that truly what we're heading toward?

[Cthulhu]

Precious Snowflake disturbed by being asked to exercise critical thinking skills.

http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/neighborhood/2015/10/27/student-says-teacher-taught-god-not-real/74723050/

13247 (http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/neighborhood/2015/10/27/student-says-teacher-taught-god-not-real/74723050/)

The horror... the horror....
Why won't these slithery "teachers" explain this "fact" to Muslim children?

Go ahead, tell them that Allah doesn't exist.

Reason: no balls.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.