Why is Edward Snowden treated as a traitor?

[William]

Why is Edward Snowden treated as a traitor by the US government? 285 members of the European Parliament have called on EU member states to
"drop any criminal charges against Edward Snowden, grant him protection and consequently prevent extradition or rendition by third parties, in recognition of his status as whistle-blower and international human rights defender".

They urge the EU Commission to ensure that all data transfers to the US are subject to an "effective level of protection" and ask EU member states to grant protection to Edward Snowden, as a "human rights defender". http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/content/20151022IPR98818/html/Mass-surveillance-EU-citizens'-rights-still-in-danger-says-Parliament

Like what he, and Julian Assange, did was tell people around the world about the illegal things the US and other governments were doing. Why is that wrong? :huh:

[zelmo1234]

You answered your own question, The reason our government considered him a traitor is because he exposed those illegal things that they were doing.

Governments on their way to becoming a tyranny, and in the process of inserting their power over the people, don't like it when their evil plots are exposed.

And hell has no fury like a progressives scorn

[decedent]

I don't see how threatening to release private information about all government employees is treasonous.

[Matty]

I consider Snowden to be a Russian citizen. He ran to them did his thing. Now he's not happy. Oh well.

[AeonPax]

`
Obama especially, is out to get whistleblowers and journalists who report about our governments illegal activities.

1 - Obama's war on whistleblowers leaves administration insiders unscathed (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/16/whistleblowers-double-standard-obama-david-petraeus-chelsea-manning).

2 - Obama’s War on Journalism Goes Globa (http://theantimedia.org/obamas-war-on-journalism-goes-global/)l

[exotix]

grant protection to Edward Snowden, as a "human rights defender".

Really ?

A Human Rights Defender ?

[Refugee]

I rate Assange and Snowden highly. If not for these two, most of what we now take for granted would still be a conspiracy theory.

[donttread]

Why is Edward Snowden treated as a traitor by the US government? 285 members of the European Parliament have called on EU member states to
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/content/20151022IPR98818/html/Mass-surveillance-EU-citizens'-rights-still-in-danger-says-Parliament

Like what he, and Julian Assange, did was tell people around the world about the illegal things the US and other governments were doing. Why is that wrong? :huh:


He is treated as a traitor because 1984 has finally arrived William. If you've never read George Orwell's "1984" I strongly suggest you do . It will explain what is happening here and what your generation may be able to prevent from happening in your country.

[donttread]

I rate Assange and Snowden highly. If not for these two, most of what we now take for granted would still be a conspiracy theory.


Good point , they call us "conspiracy theorist" as an insult but never acknowledge when we are proven right

[Common]

Why is snowden treated like a traitor?

Because he is William in every description of it.

[donttread]

Why is snowden treated like a traitor?

Because he is William in every description of it.

The only way Snowden aided and abetted the enemy is if the American people ARE the enemy

[Refugee]

Good point , they call us "conspiracy theorist" as an insult but never acknowledge when we are proven right

There are two great versions of the authoritarian future, Orwell’s ‘1984’ and Huxley’s 1952 ‘Brave New World Revisited.’ Huxley’s is by far the better version because it shows the new version of progressivism as a benevolent dictatorship reliant on drugs, ‘happiness’ and indoctrination as coercion, rather than Orwell’s ‘jackboot’ approach. Many similarities to the mass-media indoctrination, legalised drugs and ‘do your own thing man’ approach today.

It’s not really suitable for liberals though, as they’re too gullible to believe anyone is pulling the strings behind all the agendas currently at work and still think it’s some kind of Kumbaya people’s thing.

(You poor gullible modern social libs, if only you could spend a few months under communism and learn what’s in store for you in a progressive society). :sad:

[Tahuyaman]

The only way Snowden aided and abetted the enemy is if the American people ARE the enemy

Thats a difficult stance to dispute.

[nathanbforrest45]

I think the United States should post all of its strategies and policies on Facebook. Nothing what so ever should ever be a secret. How stupid of the American citizen to believe we shouldn't tell the world everything we are doing.

[Tahuyaman]

The American system of government should not look at its own citizens as the enemy.

What I find especially odd is they our current government has no problem targeting its own citizens, but is unwilling to acknowledge the known enemy.

[William]

He is treated as a traitor because 1984 has finally arrived William. If you've never read George Orwell's "1984" I strongly suggest you do . It will explain what is happening here and what your generation may be able to prevent from happening in your country.

Thanks, we did 1984 in class, and we had to read the whole book and discuss it. We were also shown the DVD of the film (it was a bit scarey). Did you know that George Orwell was actually named Eric Arthur Blair? :smiley:

[valley ranch]

Snowden risked everything, gave up everything to tell us what was being done. Which one of us would have put our head on the block for our fellow Americans in that way.

[The Xl]

Why is snowden treated like a traitor?

Because he is William in every description of it.

Why? Why does the government have the right to do illegal actively without consequence?

[The Xl]

The only way Snowden aided and abetted the enemy is if the American people ARE the enemy

Boom.

[donttread]

There are two great versions of the authoritarian future, Orwell’s ‘1984’ and Huxley’s 1952 ‘Brave New World Revisited.’ Huxley’s is by far the better version because it shows the new version of progressivism as a benevolent dictatorship reliant on drugs, ‘happiness’ and indoctrination as coercion, rather than Orwell’s ‘jackboot’ approach. Many similarities to the mass-media indoctrination, legalised drugs and ‘do your own thing man’ approach today.

It’s not really suitable for liberals though, as they’re too gullible to believe anyone is pulling the strings behind all the agendas currently at work and still think it’s some kind of Kumbaya people’s thing.

(You poor gullible modern social libs, if only you could spend a few months under communism and learn what’s in store for you in a progressive society). :sad:

I'll have to check that out

[donttread]

I think the United States should post all of its strategies and policies on Facebook. Nothing what so ever should ever be a secret. How stupid of the American citizen to believe we shouldn't tell the world everything we are doing.

We are talking about wholesale warrantless spying on innocent Americans

[Private Pickle]

There are two great versions of the authoritarian future, Orwell’s ‘1984’ and Huxley’s 1952 ‘Brave New World Revisited.’ Huxley’s is by far the better version because it shows the new version of progressivism as a benevolent dictatorship reliant on drugs, ‘happiness’ and indoctrination as coercion, rather than Orwell’s ‘jackboot’ approach. Many similarities to the mass-media indoctrination, legalised drugs and ‘do your own thing man’ approach today.

It’s not really suitable for liberals though, as they’re too gullible to believe anyone is pulling the strings behind all the agendas currently at work and still think it’s some kind of Kumbaya people’s thing.

(You poor gullible modern social libs, if only you could spend a few months under communism and learn what’s in store for you in a progressive society). :sad:

I could for for some Soma right about now.

[Refugee]

I could for for some Soma right about now.

I know what you mean, but seriously, it’s already here. Check out the statistics and 10% of Americans are already on prescribed antidepressants – it’s already being termed ‘The prozac generation.’ In other words, in a modern liberal society, an increasing ammount of people need to be sedated, or get high, to be able to cope. Same applies to large parts of Europe.

Just looking at Donttread’s comment about Americans being seen as the enemy, yes a large minority are. Many of Obama’s ‘Czars’ are, the CPUSA, the progressive congressional caucus, the Farrakhan’s, Sharpton’s and Jackson’s . . . Who in turn support and encourage the protests (riots), race baiting divisions, mass immigration, which then needs the ‘Patriot Act’ and Homeland Security to monitor the consequences, which in turn restricts the very freedoms it was supposed to produce. In other words, the more individual ‘freedom’ people want, the more government ‘security’ they get. So on the one hand you have an Orwellian State of surveillance and on the other, a ‘Brave New World’ type of society for the masses.

What all this produces is a freedom of information curtailed society that people like Snowden exposed. The irony lies in that he broke the law by exposing the NSA who was breaking the law. He’d already complained to the Department of Defense inspector general in September 2002, to no avail, before he went public.
Obama now signs in a ‘USA Freedom Act’ 2015. No longer will the NSA be allowed to collect data, instead it will now be collected by private telecommunications companies, which the government has to ask for data and of course the provate companies will refuse, won’t they and will it take another Snowden ten years years down the line to show the NSA is still involved in it?

All this in my opinion, is why the average American remains so clueless about what is going on. It’s now a society of spoon fed selected government information, provided by the mass media, in a divided partisan society. Whilst Americans were running around waving little pink flags and championing the right to get high, how many even know what’s in the Patriot Act, or Obama’s signing of the NDAA in 2011 (updated 2013)? (Elsewhere termed the Martial law act).
Have you looked at these Acts? Detention without trial, (suspension of habeas corpus), FEMA camps, police militarisation, police entry without warrant . . . Private companies replace the NSA and the NDAA replaces the Patriot Act, it never goes away but increases powers using different name changes. When America begins to socially collapse under the weight of diversity and the authorities begin rounding you up they won’t be breaking the law, it already is law and it’s no use hiding, they already know where you all are. Snowden simply told you all this, because the government/media wouldn’t and because they haven’t, many don’t even know it’s happening, or refuse to believe anything outside mainstream indoctrination.

[Private Pickle]

I know what you mean, but seriously, it’s already here. Check out the statistics and 10% of Americans are already on prescribed antidepressants – it’s already being termed ‘The prozac generation.’ In other words, in a modern liberal society, an increasing ammount of people need to be sedated, or get high, to be able to cope. Same applies to large parts of Europe.

Just looking at Donttread’s comment about Americans being seen as the enemy, yes a large minority are. Many of Obama’s ‘Czars’ are, the CPUSA, the progressive congressional caucus, the Farrakhan’s, Sharpton’s and Jackson’s . . . Who in turn support and encourage the protests (riots), race baiting divisions, mass immigration, which then needs the ‘Patriot Act’ and Homeland Security to monitor the consequences, which in turn restricts the very freedoms it was supposed to produce. In other words, the more individual ‘freedom’ people want, the more government ‘security’ they get. So on the one hand you have an Orwellian State of surveillance and on the other, a ‘Brave New World’ type of society for the masses.

What all this produces is a freedom of information curtailed society that people like Snowden exposed. The irony lies in that he broke the law by exposing the NSA who was breaking the law. He’d already complained to the Department of Defense inspector general in September 2002, to no avail, before he went public.
Obama now signs in a ‘USA Freedom Act’ 2015. No longer will the NSA be allowed to collect data, instead it will now be collected by private telecommunications companies, which the government has to ask for data and of course the provate companies will refuse, won’t they and will it take another Snowden ten years years down the line to show the NSA is still involved in it?

All this in my opinion, is why the average American remains so clueless about what is going on. It’s now a society of spoon fed selected government information, provided by the mass media, in a divided partisan society. Whilst Americans were running around waving little pink flags and championing the right to get high, how many even know what’s in the Patriot Act, or Obama’s signing of the NDAA in 2011 (updated 2013)? (Elsewhere termed the Martial law act).
Have you looked at these Acts? Detention without trial, (suspension of habeas corpus), FEMA camps, police militarisation, police entry without warrant . . . Private companies replace the NSA and the NDAA replaces the Patriot Act, it never goes away but increases powers using different name changes. When America begins to socially collapse under the weight of diversity and the authorities begin rounding you up they won’t be breaking the law, it already is law and it’s no use hiding, they already know where you all are. Snowden simply told you all this, because the government/media wouldn’t and because they haven’t, many don’t even know it’s happening, or refuse to believe anything outside mainstream indoctrination.


Soma didn't have the side effects...

[Tahuyaman]

I don't know the details behind this Snowden thing, but I find it difficult to condemn someone for dropping a dime on government for conducting illegal activities.

Now, if it comes out that he was collaborating with our enemies, that's another story.

[donttread]

Thanks, we did 1984 in class, and we had to read the whole book and discuss it. We were also shown the DVD of the film (it was a bit scarey). Did you know that George Orwell was actually named Eric Arthur Blair? :smiley:


I did not. You strike me as a smart kid going to a good school. My advise for what it's worth question evertyhing

[donttread]

I know what you mean, but seriously, it’s already here. Check out the statistics and 10% of Americans are already on prescribed antidepressants – it’s already being termed ‘The prozac generation.’ In other words, in a modern liberal society, an increasing ammount of people need to be sedated, or get high, to be able to cope. Same applies to large parts of Europe.

Just looking at Donttread’s comment about Americans being seen as the enemy, yes a large minority are. Many of Obama’s ‘Czars’ are, the CPUSA, the progressive congressional caucus, the Farrakhan’s, Sharpton’s and Jackson’s . . . Who in turn support and encourage the protests (riots), race baiting divisions, mass immigration, which then needs the ‘Patriot Act’ and Homeland Security to monitor the consequences, which in turn restricts the very freedoms it was supposed to produce. In other words, the more individual ‘freedom’ people want, the more government ‘security’ they get. So on the one hand you have an Orwellian State of surveillance and on the other, a ‘Brave New World’ type of society for the masses.

What all this produces is a freedom of information curtailed society that people like Snowden exposed. The irony lies in that he broke the law by exposing the NSA who was breaking the law. He’d already complained to the Department of Defense inspector general in September 2002, to no avail, before he went public.
Obama now signs in a ‘USA Freedom Act’ 2015. No longer will the NSA be allowed to collect data, instead it will now be collected by private telecommunications companies, which the government has to ask for data and of course the provate companies will refuse, won’t they and will it take another Snowden ten years years down the line to show the NSA is still involved in it?

All this in my opinion, is why the average American remains so clueless about what is going on. It’s now a society of spoon fed selected government information, provided by the mass media, in a divided partisan society. Whilst Americans were running around waving little pink flags and championing the right to get high, how many even know what’s in the Patriot Act, or Obama’s signing of the NDAA in 2011 (updated 2013)? (Elsewhere termed the Martial law act).
Have you looked at these Acts? Detention without trial, (suspension of habeas corpus), FEMA camps, police militarisation, police entry without warrant . . . Private companies replace the NSA and the NDAA replaces the Patriot Act, it never goes away but increases powers using different name changes. When America begins to socially collapse under the weight of diversity and the authorities begin rounding you up they won’t be breaking the law, it already is law and it’s no use hiding, they already know where you all are. Snowden simply told you all this, because the government/media wouldn’t and because they haven’t, many don’t even know it’s happening, or refuse to believe anything outside mainstream indoctrination.


We cannot stress the impact of the changes in our lifestyle enough. Chemical laced food, even more addictive cigarettes and a tremendous, unprecedented drop in physical activity in our lifetimes. Much of which contributes depression and anxiety

[HoneyBadger]

I have a difficult time understanding why some people are far more outraged over the actions of Snowden than they are of the actions of the US Government. The fed is behaving as if they are a "victim" when in actuality they are the thug in this story.

[Ethereal]

Why is Edward Snowden treated as a traitor by the US government? 285 members of the European Parliament have called on EU member states to
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/content/20151022IPR98818/html/Mass-surveillance-EU-citizens'-rights-still-in-danger-says-Parliament

Like what he, and Julian Assange, did was tell people around the world about the illegal things the US and other governments were doing. Why is that wrong? :huh:

Traitors often accuse patriots of being traitors so that they can hide their own treachery. The US government is expert at accusing others things it is guilty of, so this should come as no surprise.

[Ethereal]

Why? Why does the government have the right to do illegal actively without consequence?

Because MURICA.

[Ethereal]

I don't know the details behind this Snowden thing, but I find it difficult to condemn someone for dropping a dime on government for conducting illegal activities.

Now, if it comes out that he was collaborating with our enemies, that's another story.

The only people he collaborated with were western journalists and filmmakers. They are the ones he gave the documents to and they are the ones deciding which documents should become public. And the only reason he is in Russia is because the US government revoked his passport while he was trying to transit to South America. The US government even grounded the Bolivian President's plane because they suspected Snowden was on it (he wasn't).

[William]

We are talking about wholesale warrantless spying on innocent Americans

And not just on American citizens.


The U.S. National Security Agency has figured out how to hide spying software deep within hard drives made by Western Digital, Seagate, Toshiba, and other top manufacturers, giving the agency the means to eavesdrop on the majority of the world's computers, according to cyber researchers and former operatives.

That long-sought and closely guarded ability was part of a cluster of spying programs discovered by Kaspersky Lab, the Moscow-based security software maker that has exposed a series of Western cyberespionage operations.


http://www.businessinsider.com/r-russian-researchers-expose-breakthrough-us-spying-program-2015-2?IR=T


Ongoing news reports in the international media have revealed operational details about the United States National Security Agency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency) (NSA) and its international partners' global surveillance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance)[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosures_(2013–present)#cit e_note-1) of foreign nationals and U.S. citizens. The reports mostly emanate from a cache of top secret (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_secret) documents leaked (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leak_(news)) by ex-NSA contractor Edward Snowden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden), who obtained them while working for Booz Allen Hamilton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booz_Allen_Hamilton), one of the largest contractors for defense and intelligence in the United States.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosures_(2013–present)#cit e_note-WP20130610Security-2) In addition to a trove of U.S. federal documents, Snowden's cache reportedly contains thousands of Australian, British and Canadian intelligence files that he had accessed via the exclusive "Five Eyes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes)" network. In June 2013, the first of Snowden's documents were published simultaneously by The Washington Post (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Post) and The Guardian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardian), attracting considerable public attention.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosures_(2013–present)#cit e_note-3) The disclosure continued throughout 2013, and a small portion of the estimated full cache of documents was later published by other media outlets worldwide, most notably The New York Times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times), the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Broadcasting_Corporation), the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Broadcasting_Corporation), Der Spiegel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Spiegel) (Germany), O Globo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Globo) (Brazil), Le Monde (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Monde) (France), L'espresso (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L'espresso) (Italy), NRC Handelsblad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NRC_Handelsblad) (the Netherlands), Dagbladet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagbladet) (Norway), El País (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_País) (Spain), and Sveriges Television (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveriges_Television) (Sweden).[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosures_(2013–present)#cit e_note-4)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosures_(2013–present)


People who expose wrongdoing on national security and intelligence issues around the world are often given weak or no protection and are often subject to retaliation, creating a “chilling effect on people speaking out”, a United Nations (http://www.theguardian.com/world/unitednations) report has found.

The report puts forward a series of recommendations for nations to apply generally to whistleblowing and public-interest disclosures. It also makes particular recommendations for a framework for national-security disclosures.

It says national-security institutions enjoy secrecy “as a norm of behaviour” but notes that disclosure offence and secrecy laws “all but eliminate genuine whistle-blower protection”.

The report says, “Institutions that operate in national security, such as institutions of defence, diplomacy, internal security and law enforcement, and intelligence, may have a greater claim not to disclose information than other public bodies, but they have no greater claim to hide instances of wrongdoing or other information where the value of disclosure outweighs the harm to the institution.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/un-lack-of-whistleblower-protection-has-chilling-effect-on-exposing-wrongdoing

[Ethereal]

I have a difficult time understanding why some people are far more outraged over the actions of Snowden than they are of the actions of the US Government. The fed is behaving as if they are a "victim" when in actuality they are the thug in this story.

Isn't it amazing? The guy exposes epic criminality and some people are angry at him for it. The US government's mass domestic spying program would make Stalin jealous. It is that invasive and pervasive. The NSA's secret motto is "sniff it all, collect it all, know it all". And when they say "all", they mean precisely that, from your emails to your web history to your Facebook messages.

[Private Pickle]

Isn't it amazing? The guy exposes epic criminality and some people are angry at him for it. The US government's mass domestic spying program would make Stalin jealous. It is that invasive and pervasive. The NSA's secret motto is "sniff it all, collect it all, know it all". And when they say "all", they mean precisely that, from your emails to your web history to your Facebook messages.

Some will defend their precious parties until the end... Millions have died realizing that simple fact...

[Tahuyaman]

Why would any American citizen condemn him for doing nothing more than exposing illegal activity by government?

[Tahuyaman]

Some will defend their precious parties until the end....
There's a stretch.

[donttread]

The only people he collaborated with were western journalists and filmmakers. They are the ones he gave the documents to and they are the ones deciding which documents should become public. And the only reason he is in Russia is because the US government revoked his passport while he was trying to transit to South America. The US government even grounded the Bolivian President's plane because they suspected Snowden was on it (he wasn't).

Please don't confuse the lockstep types with silly things like facts.

[Ransom]

Isn't it amazing? The guy exposes epic criminality and some people are angry at him for it. The US government's mass domestic spying program would make Stalin jealous. It is that invasive and pervasive. The NSA's secret motto is "sniff it all, collect it all, know it all". And when they say "all", they mean precisely that, from your emails to your web history to your Facebook messages.

Might you link to this 'epic criminality?'

Hysterical Ethereal. lol

[Peter1469]

General warrants are expressly forbidden by the Constitution.

[texan]

Because the government didn't want to be told on...............

[donttread]

Why would any American citizen condemn him for doing nothing more than exposing illegal activity by government?


Because it threatens their thin false reality of two stable parties with at least one of which giving a shit about them

[Tahuyaman]

Because it threatens their thin false reality of two stable parties with at least one of which giving a $#@! about them

how you can connect Snowden to the two major political parties is... Well, amazing.

[valley ranch]

Still talking about this. Snowden Gave Away No Secrets! He told us the government was breaking the law, watching us in a way that was always forbidden. Don't be crazy, the man gave up everything for us.


Give us yee Snowden, Ache, WE hardly knew yee!

https://macblue4u.wordpress.com/2015...5-documentary/ (https://macblue4u.wordpress.com/2015/10/25/edward-snowden-terminal-f-2015-documentary/)

[donttread]

how you can connect Snowden to the two major political parties is... Well, amazing.


Ummmm, who do you think approved the spy program he warned us about? Santa Claus?

[donttread]

Still talking about this. Snowden Gave Away No Secrets! He told us the government was breaking the law, watching us in a way that was always forbidden. Don't be crazy, the man gave up everything for us.


Give us yee Snowden, Ache, WE hardly knew yee!

https://macblue4u.wordpress.com/2015...5-documentary/ (https://macblue4u.wordpress.com/2015/10/25/edward-snowden-terminal-f-2015-documentary/)


And yet even when they were exposed they unashamedly continued their warrantless invasions of our property and we do nothing to stop them, like sheep.

[Tahuyaman]

Ummmm, who do you think approved the spy program he warned us about? Santa Claus?

it certainly wasn't a collaboration between the two parties. It was approved by corrupt government officials without input from either the RNC or DNC

[donttread]

it certainly wasn't a collaboration between the two parties. It was approved by corrupt government officials without input from either the RNC or DNC


Right. Big stuff like that and not a single Donkephant knew about it? Really, that's what you're going with?

[Philly]

You can debate whether or not he has committed treason, but he certainly has committed espionage.