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Gypsy
11-08-2015, 09:56 PM
Where is the proof that Politico admitted to fabricating the Ben Carson controversy?

I've looked through the forum. I've looked at Politico's web site. I've checked Fox, CNN, BBC, MSNBC as well as FACTcheck.org and even Snopes.

hanger4
11-08-2015, 10:01 PM
Where is the proof that Politico admitted to fabricating the Ben Carson controversy?

I've looked through the forum. I've looked at Politico's web site. I've checked Fox, CNN, BBC, MSNBC as well as FACTcheck.org and even Snopes.
When they changed the headline to their story.

Gypsy
11-08-2015, 10:05 PM
When they changed the headline to their story.

What was it and what was it changed to? Changing a headline isn't proof, it's editing. Is there actual proof?

hanger4
11-08-2015, 10:10 PM
What was it and what was it changed to? Changing a headline isn't proof, it's editing. Is there actual proof?
Here is the original headline; ..... "“Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship”. .... Here is the headline after being called on it;
....... "Exclusive: Carson claimed West Point ‘scholarship’ but never applied.”* ....... Major difference don't ya think ??

Gypsy
11-08-2015, 10:26 PM
Yes, there is a major difference in headlines, thank you. The media sucks, it's all too sensationalized, I think most people can agree to that. With that said, I still don't see that as proof that they fabricated the story, the story is still the story even if the headline changed.
Regardless, that's not really the issue. The real issue is that Carson claims one thing but cannot back it up with facts.
I don't really have a dog in this fight, my guy isn't running.

Tahuyaman
11-08-2015, 10:48 PM
Yes, there is a major difference in headlines, thank you. The media sucks, it's all too sensationalized, I think most people can agree to that....

That's not sensationalizing. That's dishonest reporting. Intentional dishonesty.

maineman
11-08-2015, 10:56 PM
Here is the original headline; ..... "“Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship”. .... Here is the headline after being called on it;
....... "Exclusive: Carson claimed West Point ‘scholarship’ but never applied.”* ....... Major difference don't ya think ??

did he fabricate a story about a scholarship or not? If it was a TRUE story, it was not fabricated. But then, NOBODY gets a scholarship to West Point, they get an appointment. Any talk about a scholarship IS fabricated.

Archer0915
11-08-2015, 11:09 PM
did he fabricate a story about a scholarship or not? If it was a TRUE story, it was not fabricated. But then, NOBODY gets a scholarship to West Point, they get an appointment. Any talk about a scholarship IS fabricated.

Scholarship? No, appointment? Yes but... The military goes after who they want and that appointment is akin to a scholarship, just ask a west point grad who was recruited and did not have to lobby for a congressional appointment.

Tahuyaman
11-08-2015, 11:14 PM
Scholarship? No, appointment? Yes but... The military goes after who they want and that appointment is akin to a scholarship, just ask a west point grad who was recruited and did not have to lobby for a congressional appointment.

The US Military Academy does in fact recruit students who show exemplary skills in certain areas. They introduce them to the person who can sponsor them.

maineman
11-08-2015, 11:16 PM
The US Military Academy does in fact recruit students who show exemplary skills in certain areas. They introduce them to the person who can sponsor them.

absolutely. and then, the exemplary student is offered an appointment. Anyone who has been anywhere NEAR that process knows that service academies do not offer "scholarships".

Tahuyaman
11-08-2015, 11:18 PM
Maineman likes to parse words.

Gypsy
11-08-2015, 11:20 PM
Maineman likes to parse words.

Isn't the usage of words what started all of this?

maineman
11-08-2015, 11:21 PM
Scholarship? No, appointment? Yes but... The military goes after who they want and that appointment is akin to a scholarship, just ask a west point grad who was recruited and did not have to lobby for a congressional appointment.

every west point grad had to get a congressional appointment.... except those who get in from the enlisted ranks through USMAPS.

maineman
11-08-2015, 11:23 PM
Maineman likes to parse words.

no parsing. just simple definitions. Civilian schools offer scholarships. US Service Academies don't. And people who have been in that process know the difference. Clearly, Doctor Ben doesn't.

Archer0915
11-08-2015, 11:23 PM
every west point grad had to get a congressional appointment.... except those who get in from the enlisted ranks through USMAPS.


Yes, that appointment can be fought for, or if you are being sought out, it can be easily given. You see the military does head hunt as well.

Was I unclear in my post?

Tahuyaman
11-08-2015, 11:24 PM
Isn't the usage of words what started all of this?


No. Dishonest reporting intended to smear a man is what started this.

maineman
11-08-2015, 11:25 PM
No. Dishonest reporting intended to smear a man is what started this.

what was "dishonest" about the reporting?

Tahuyaman
11-08-2015, 11:25 PM
Yes, that appointment can be fought for, or if you are being sought out, it can be easily given. You see the military does head hunt as well.

maineman doesn't understand that, because no one ever sought him out.

Tahuyaman
11-08-2015, 11:26 PM
what was "dishonest" about the reporting?


Are you serious, or just a rabid partisan hack?

maineman
11-08-2015, 11:26 PM
Yes, that appointment can be fought for, or if you are being sought out, it can be easily given. You see the military does head hunt as well.

Was I unclear in my post?

and even those sought out need to either get a presidential appointment by enlisting in the army and then attending USMAPS, or they need to get a congressional appointment. There are no scholarships.

maineman
11-08-2015, 11:27 PM
Are you serious, or just a rabid partisan hack?

what was "dishonest"? Did Carson get a scholarship offer from West Point or not?

Gypsy
11-08-2015, 11:27 PM
No. Dishonest reporting intended to smear a man is what started this.

Actually, what started this was vetting a man who wishes to be President. Unfortunately for Dr. Carson he had chosen to lie about his past. So accomplished, yet he felt the need to embellish.

Tahuyaman
11-08-2015, 11:27 PM
Maineman needs everyone's blessing.

Tahuyaman
11-08-2015, 11:30 PM
Actually, what started this was vetting a man who wishes to be President. Unfortunately for Dr. Carson he had chosen to lie about his past. So accomplished, yet he felt the need to embellish.

the dishonest smear tactics work on some people.

maineman
11-08-2015, 11:32 PM
maineman doesn't understand that, because no one ever sought him out.

how would you know that?

It was interesting.... the Coast Guard Academy DID contact my father as a prominent local leader and ask him to suggest possible students for USCGA. I told him that I was interested, and he asked me if I was also interested in the other serviced academies. I said that I would consider Annapolis, but not West Point nor Colorado Springs.... I contacted my congressman, got the paperwork, took the test, scored high enough that I got interviewed by the (republican) congressman's selection committee... and then he called me up at my high school and offered me an APPOINTMENT to Annapolis. I said yes, passed the physical and entered three weeks after high school graduation. The word "scholarship" never came up in any of the conversations.

Archer0915
11-08-2015, 11:33 PM
and even those sought out need to either get a presidential appointment by enlisting in the army and then attending USMAPS, or they need to get a congressional appointment. There are no scholarships.

Damn, did I ever fucking say they gave a damn scholarship? Let me fucking see...

Scholarship? No, appointment? Yes but... The military goes after who they want and that appointment is akin to a scholarship, just ask a west point grad who was recruited and did not have to lobby for a congressional appointment.

Yes, that appointment can be fought for, or if you are being sought out, it can be easily given. You see the military does head hunt as well.

Was I unclear in my post?

Did I ever fucking say it was a damn scholarship? Fuck no, I damn well did not!

maineman
11-08-2015, 11:34 PM
the dishonest smear tactics work on some people.

what was dishonest about pointing out that Carson was never offered a scholarship to West Point?

maineman
11-08-2015, 11:35 PM
Damn, did I ever fucking say they gave a damn scholarship? Let me fucking see...

Scholarship? No, appointment? Yes but... The military goes after who they want and that appointment is akin to a scholarship, just ask a west point grad who was recruited and did not have to lobby for a congressional appointment.

Yes, that appointment can be fought for, or if you are being sought out, it can be easily given. You see the military does head hunt as well.

Was I unclear in my post?

Did I ever fucking say it was a damn scholarship? Fuck no, I damn well did not!

Carson did, however... that's the point. He's a liar. that's the point.

Archer0915
11-08-2015, 11:36 PM
how would you know that?

It was interesting.... the Coast Guard Academy DID contact my father as a prominent local leader and ask him to suggest possible students for USCGA. I told him that I was interested, and he asked me if I was also interested in the other serviced academies. I said that I would consider Annapolis, but not West Point nor Colorado Springs.... I contacted my congressman, got the paperwork, took the test, scored high enough that I got interviewed by the (republican) congressman's selection committee... and then he called me up at my high school and offered me an APPOINTMENT to Annapolis. I said yes, passed the physical and entered three weeks after high school graduation. The word "scholarship" never came up in any of the conversations.

And that is how it goes. Not a scholarship, never said it was, I said akin to, nothing more.

Archer0915
11-08-2015, 11:37 PM
Carson did, however... that's the point. He's a liar. that's the point.

Hell he did not know, I guess. So does it say more to say he lied or to say that he had no clue?

maineman
11-08-2015, 11:40 PM
Hell he did not know, I guess. So does it say more to say he lied or to say that he had no clue?

and, as I said, anyone who legitimately came close enough to that process to think that anyone was offering them a scholarship - especially one who went on to be a brain surgeon - would know that that was not what he was being offered.

Tahuyaman
11-08-2015, 11:44 PM
maineman doesn't understand that, because no one ever sought him out.


how would you know that?

It was interesting.... the Coast Guard Academy DID contact my father as a prominent local leader and ask him to suggest possible students for USCGA. I told him that I was interested, and he asked me if I was also interested in the other serviced academies. I said that I would consider Annapolis, but not West Point nor Colorado Springs.... I contacted my congressman, got the paperwork, took the test, scored high enough that I got interviewed by the (republican) congressman's selection committee... and then he called me up at my high school and offered me an APPOINTMENT to Annapolis. I said yes, passed the physical and entered three weeks after high school graduation. The word "scholarship" never came up in any of the conversations.

ok, I take that comment back. In the Navy, the Selective Early Retirement Board (SERB) sought out maineman.

Gypsy
11-08-2015, 11:47 PM
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/headlines/20151106-ben-carson-stands-by-west-point-story-alleges-media-looking-for-a-scandal.ece

maineman
11-08-2015, 11:48 PM
ok, I take that comment back. In the Navy, the Selective Early Retirement Board (SERB) sought out maineman.

why the baseless insults, sarge? I wore navy blue for a quarter of a century.

maineman
11-08-2015, 11:50 PM
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/headlines/20151106-ben-carson-stands-by-west-point-story-alleges-media-looking-for-a-scandal.ece

so he is keeping up with the lie. wow.

Gypsy
11-08-2015, 11:51 PM
so he is keeping up with the lie. wow.

Yep.

Tahuyaman
11-08-2015, 11:55 PM
And that is how it goes. Not a scholarship, never said it was, I said akin to, nothing more.

more than 40 years ago, Ben Carson was offered a "scholarship" to every Ivy League school and several other prestigious universities. More than 40 years later someone wants to parse his use of the word "scholarship".

Like a guy more than 40 years later who was never considering the Military Academy is going to worry about the use of one word.

Incredible.

Gypsy
11-08-2015, 11:58 PM
more than 40 years ago, Ben Carson was offered a "scholarship" to every Ivy League school and several other prestigious universities. More than 40 years later someone wants to parse his use of the word "scholarship".

Like a guy more than 40 years later who was never considering the Military Academy is going to worry about the use of one word.

Incredible.

If that were the truth all that would be required is a simple "I misspoke". Not only has he not said that he has continued to claim it was a scholarship.

Tahuyaman
11-08-2015, 11:59 PM
I guess left wing partisan hacks will resort to any tactic to destroy an accomplished black man who dares to disagree with them on a few issues.

Tahuyaman
11-09-2015, 12:00 AM
The left wing racists should be ashamed of themselves, but somehow I think they aren't.

silvereyes
11-09-2015, 12:01 AM
Scholarship? No, appointment? Yes but... The military goes after who they want and that appointment is akin to a scholarship, just ask a west point grad who was recruited and did not have to lobby for a congressional appointment.

You would think hed check that before opening his yammer, huh?

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:02 AM
more than 40 years ago, Ben Carson was offered a "scholarship" to every Ivy League school and several other prestigious universities. More than 40 years later someone wants to parse his use of the word "scholarship".

Like a guy more than 40 years later who was never considering the Military Academy is going to worry about the use of one word.

Incredible.

if he never considered West Point, nobody would have bothered offering him anything.

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:04 AM
I guess left wing partisan hacks will resort to any tactic to destroy an accomplished black man who dares to disagree with them on a few issues.

People who fluff up their resumes are despicable regardless of their skin color... like E-9's who claim to be strategic force planners.

silvereyes
11-09-2015, 12:05 AM
Damn, did I ever fucking say they gave a damn scholarship? Let me fucking see...

Scholarship? No, appointment? Yes but... The military goes after who they want and that appointment is akin to a scholarship, just ask a west point grad who was recruited and did not have to lobby for a congressional appointment.

Yes, that appointment can be fought for, or if you are being sought out, it can be easily given. You see the military does head hunt as well.

Was I unclear in my post?

Did I ever fucking say it was a damn scholarship? Fuck no, I damn well did not!

Simmer down...wth? Whats with you lately? You get riled easy these days? :(

Gypsy
11-09-2015, 12:05 AM
I guess left wing partisan hacks will resort to any tactic to destroy an accomplished black man who dares to disagree with them on a few issues.

:rollseyes:

silvereyes
11-09-2015, 12:08 AM
The left wing racists should be ashamed of themselves, but somehow I think they aren't.
Oh, shut up. Your crap is really tiresome.

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:11 AM
The left wing racists should be ashamed of themselves, but somehow I think they aren't.

racist? If Rand or Rubio had told the same lie, I'd point it out.

Tahuyaman
11-09-2015, 12:12 AM
why the baseless insults, sarge? I wore navy blue for a quarter of a century.


You would have worn it longer if they hadn't "asked" you to leave.

Tahuyaman
11-09-2015, 12:13 AM
racist? If Rand or Rubio had told the same lie, I'd point it out.

using the wrong word is now a lie.

Tahuyaman
11-09-2015, 12:13 AM
Oh, shut up. Your crap is really tiresome.Bless your little heart.

Tahuyaman
11-09-2015, 12:15 AM
if he never considered West Point, nobody would have bothered offering him anything.


What?

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:15 AM
using the wrong word is now a lie.

fluffing a resume is a lie. No one would have "offered" Carson ANYTHING having to do with West Point - certainly not a "scholarship" - except his congressman or senator offering him an appointment and those are only offered to people who go through the rigorous process set down to obtain them... which Carson now admits he did not do.

silvereyes
11-09-2015, 12:16 AM
Bless your little heart.

Jealous cuz i have one? Its pointless to bless yours...its nonexistent.

Tahuyaman
11-09-2015, 12:17 AM
racist? If Rand or Rubio had told the same lie, I'd point it out.

how come you justify the lies Hillary Clinton tells?

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:19 AM
how come you justify the lies Hillary Clinton tells?

when have I EVER "justified" anyone's lies?

Archer0915
11-09-2015, 12:22 AM
if he never considered West Point, nobody would have bothered offering him anything.

But the circumstances may have been just as described. He did meet General Westmoreland.

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:24 AM
But the circumstances may have been just as described. He did meet General Westmoreland.

and HE must have offered him the scholarship?

Gypsy
11-09-2015, 12:25 AM
But the circumstances may have been just as described. He did meet General Westmoreland.

No, he didn't.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2015/11/06/carsons-westmoreland-story-match-records/75328960/

Tahuyaman
11-09-2015, 12:30 AM
Jealous cuz i have one? Its pointless to bless yours...its nonexistent.


Thats no way to respond to someone offering you a blessing.

Tahuyaman
11-09-2015, 12:33 AM
when have I EVER "justified" anyone's lies?

OK, I'll restate the question. How come you deny Hillary Clinton's obvious lies?

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:41 AM
OK, I'll restate the question. How come you deny Hillary Clinton's obvious lies?
I don't think that any of her statements are obvious lies.

Tahuyaman
11-09-2015, 12:44 AM
Incredible.....

Mac-7
11-09-2015, 07:53 AM
Yes, there is a major difference in headlines, thank you. The media sucks, it's all too sensationalized, I think most people can agree to that. With that said, I still don't see that as proof that they fabricated the story, the story is still the story even if the headline changed.
Regardless, that's not really the issue. The real issue is that Carson claims one thing but cannot back it up with facts.
I don't really have a dog in this fight, my guy isn't running.

Even leftwing news organizations like politico are expected to report the news not make the news.

Politico is pro democrat and will be completely pro Hillary during the election

Safety
11-09-2015, 08:31 AM
Hell he did not know, I guess. So does it say more to say he lied or to say that he had no clue?

Probably the same answer someone would use on "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"

hanger4
11-09-2015, 08:49 AM
Did Carson lie ?? Don't know. Did Politico lie ?? Yes, they failed to substantiate their story. And all that could change over night. As to 'scholarship' vs 'appointment', an irelevant arugument over semantics. ........

*A dataset from 2014: "At the United States Military Academy all students receive a full scholarship, including room & board and medical- and dental-care are provided by the U.S. Army."

• A prospectus from 2012: "As a cadet, you are a member of the U.S. Army and receive a full scholarship and an annual salary of more than $10,000 from which you pay for your uniforms, textbooks, a laptop computer, and incidents."

• An ad in a 1991 issue of Black Enterprise magazine: "Each year about 1,400 young men and women take advantage of the opportunity to attend West Point on a full government scholarship, which includes tuition, room and board and medical care.

• An ad that appeared in a few issues of Ebony magazine in 1990: "You receive a full scholarship, earn a degree from one of the country’s finest colleges, and build a foundation for a challenging career of service to the nation." ....... http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/08/ben-carson/carson-defends-west-point-scholarship-story/ ....... West Point Academy itself uses the terminology. Is *scholarship* technically incorrect, yes. Do thousands upon thousands of individuals and corps and orgs get it wrong ?? Yes. Those that are using this to disqualify BC need to get a life, unless you can show where you disqualify HC for her *under sniper fire* lie.

maineman
11-09-2015, 08:57 AM
did anyone offer Carson an appointment (scholarship) to West Point? yes or no. Did his congressman or senator? yes or no.

Matty
11-09-2015, 09:03 AM
Did Hillary shred work related emails? Funny. Liberals cover for a Sec. Of State shredding emails, and placing sensitive government materials on a personal PC, but they want to hold a black conservative pediatric neurosurgeon responsible for what he may have said happened when he was 13 . And, that's why the left is amoral.

Matty
11-09-2015, 09:05 AM
Hillary lied about landing in a hail of bullets but the left still thinks she's good enough to be President. They don't want a black conservative pediatric neurosurgeon in the WH.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 09:08 AM
did anyone offer Carson an appointment (scholarship) to West Point? yes or no. Did his congressman or senator? yes or no.
What part of "And all that could change over night". from my post didn't you understand ?? My post is in responce to yours and others inane scholarship vs appointment silliness.

Gypsy
11-09-2015, 09:14 AM
It's like Joe said on Morning Joe, Carson has went through tough questions for about a week, Hillary has been dealing with this for over a decade.


http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/joe-to-carson--you-are-lying--just-admit-it-562551875764

maineman
11-09-2015, 09:29 AM
What part of "And all that could change over night". from my post didn't you understand ?? My post is in responce to yours and others inane scholarship vs appointment silliness.

it's NOT inane. Either he went through the process and applied to a service academy through his congressman or senator, or he didn't. And if he did, he would have been offered an appointment which he wasn't. Either Joseph built the pyramids to store grain, or he didn't.

Peter1469
11-09-2015, 09:32 AM
did anyone offer Carson an appointment (scholarship) to West Point? yes or no. Did his congressman or senator? yes or no.

He likely only got the sales pitch.

When I was a private one of my platoon leaders, a ring knocker, was trying to get me to volunteer for the West Point Prep School.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 09:43 AM
it's NOT inane. Either he went through the process and applied to a service academy through his congressman or senator, or he didn't. And if he did, he would have been offered an appointment which he wasn't. Either Joseph built the pyramids to store grain, or he didn't.
Problems with reading comprehension this morning ?? Scholarship vs appiontment is an inane argument when West Point uses the term itself.

Bob
11-09-2015, 09:48 AM
Yes, there is a major difference in headlines, thank you. The media sucks, it's all too sensationalized, I think most people can agree to that. With that said, I still don't see that as proof that they fabricated the story, the story is still the story even if the headline changed.
Regardless, that's not really the issue. The real issue is that Carson claims one thing but cannot back it up with facts.
I don't really have a dog in this fight, my guy isn't running.

I noticed on CSPAN a report that 7 percent of reporters are admitted republicans. (Washington Journal 11/9/2015)

Do you suppose the left wing media loves to tear down republican candidates with petty very old stuff? Remember how Clinton used to tell us it is very old news.

decedent
11-09-2015, 09:49 AM
what was dishonest about pointing out that Carson was never offered a scholarship to West Point?

Well, Carson said he did... and he's a Doctor.

Bob
11-09-2015, 09:56 AM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by maineman http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=1321084#post1321084)
did anyone offer Carson an appointment (scholarship) to West Point? yes or no. Did his congressman or senator? yes or no.


He likely only got the sales pitch.

When I was a private one of my platoon leaders, a ring knocker, was trying to get me to volunteer for the West Point Prep School.

In my 2 years in the Army, though I saw a few Generals, I spoke to but one. I believe he had one star. As he shifted, to my uneasiness, he did have the star on his shoulder.

A pilot had landed a fixed wing aircraft at the army field. During the landing, I gave the pilot needed data to land. Said General.

He came in with a flight jacket on and leaned into the doorway so I did not know his rank.

I forget how it happened precisely but somehow we talked about my years of experience piledriving. He tells me he is willing to get me assigned to OCS and then to engineering school and assigned to his unit in combat engineers.

Was it a scholarship? No, but it was no cost to me.

Carson must have been with a General as he says and said officer simply told him he could help him into westpoint at no cost.

I don't get the big deal of this personally. It is nothing like Reverend Wright eh, the guy Obama threw under the bus?

Chris
11-09-2015, 10:03 AM
it's NOT inane. Either he went through the process and applied to a service academy through his congressman or senator, or he didn't. And if he did, he would have been offered an appointment which he wasn't. Either Joseph built the pyramids to store grain, or he didn't.

So what you're saying is you do not know.

It would be a logical fallacy to argue from unknowns.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 10:06 AM
It's like Joe said on Morning Joe, Carson has went through tough questions for about a week, Hillary has been dealing with this for over a decade.


http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/joe-to-carson--you-are-lying--just-admit-it-562551875764
Yeah, call me when the MSM calls HC's integrity into question over the *under sniper fire* and *I was named after Sir Edmund Hillary* BS.

Mac-7
11-09-2015, 10:12 AM
It's like Joe said on Morning Joe, Carson has went through tough questions for about a week, Hillary has been dealing with this for over a decade.


http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/joe-to-carson--you-are-lying--just-admit-it-562551875764

The difference is that mainstream news organizations are democrat and spend their energy attacking conservatives like Carson and assisting liberals like Hillary

Mark III
11-09-2015, 10:17 AM
when they changed the headline to their story.

rofl.

Chris
11-09-2015, 10:18 AM
rofl.

You get evidence and you laugh.

What's that about annoying a liberal with facts and logic.

del
11-09-2015, 10:20 AM
changing a headline and an article from a hack web site claiming it was fabricated =/= proof

Chris
11-09-2015, 10:21 AM
It's like Joe said on Morning Joe, Carson has went through tough questions for about a week, Hillary has been dealing with this for over a decade.


http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/joe-to-carson--you-are-lying--just-admit-it-562551875764


There are media that play for Dems and media that play for Reps. They're both disreputable.

Joe is another. He used to be a decent politician, when he was part of Contract with American and helped expose how Gingrich sold them out.

Chris
11-09-2015, 10:21 AM
changing a headline and an article from a hack web site claiming it was fabricated =/= proof

Politico is a hack web site?

Mkay.

del
11-09-2015, 10:22 AM
Politico is a hack web site?

Mkay.

i was thinking more of the federalist, which is the site taking the victory lap over this *fabrication*

try to keep up

Bob
11-09-2015, 10:26 AM
did he fabricate a story about a scholarship or not? If it was a TRUE story, it was not fabricated. But then, NOBODY gets a scholarship to West Point, they get an appointment. Any talk about a scholarship IS fabricated.

No, according to Fact checker, he did not lie

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/08/ben-carson/carson-defends-west-point-scholarship-story/


We did find examples of the words "full scholarship" used in publications that are linked on West Point’s website, as well as some old recruiting advertisements:
• A dataset (http://www.usma.edu/oir/common%20data%20set/common%20data%20set%202012-2013.pdf) from 2014: "At the United States Military Academy all students receive a full scholarship, including room & board and medical- and dental-care are provided by the U.S. Army."
• A prospectus (http://www.westpoint.edu/admissions/shared%20documents/wp_prospectus.pdf) from 2012: "As a cadet, you are a member of the U.S. Army and receive a full scholarship and an annual salary of more than $10,000 from which you pay for your uniforms, textbooks, a laptop computer, and incidents."
• An ad (https://books.google.com/books?id=GF4EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT109&dq=%22the+opportunity+to+attend+West+Point+on+a+fu ll+government+scholarship%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAGoVChMIq-Hl4YyByQIVyE0mCh3kTgx3#v=onepage&q=%22the%20opportunity%20to%20attend%20West%20Poin t%20on%20a%20full%20government%20scholarship%22&f=false) in a 1991 issue of Black Enterprise magazine: "Each year about 1,400 young men and women take advantage of the opportunity to attend West Point on a full government scholarship, which includes tuition, room and board and medical care.
• An ad that appeared in a few (https://books.google.com/books?id=7NMDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA20&dq=%22You+receive+a+full+scholarship,+earn+a+degre e+from+one+of+the+country%E2%80%99s+finest+college s,+and+build+a+foundation+for+a+challenging+career +of+service+to+the+nation%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAGoVChMIpIDFk46ByQIVRjUmCh10LQe8#v=on epage&q=%22You%20receive%20a%20full%20scholarship%2C%20e arn%20a%20degree%20from%20one%20of%20the%20country %E2%80%99s%20finest%20colleges%2C%20and%20build%20 a%20foundation%20for%20a%20challenging%20career%20 of%20service%20to%20the%20nation%22&f=false) issues (https://books.google.com/books?id=p8wDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA141&dq=%22You+receive+a+full+scholarship,+earn+a+degre e+from+one+of+the+country%E2%80%99s+finest+college s,+and+build+a+foundation+for+a+challenging+career +of+service+to+the+nation%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAWoVChMIpIDFk46ByQIVRjUmCh10LQe8#v=on epage&q=%22You%20receive%20a%20full%20scholarship%2C%20e arn%20a%20degree%20from%20one%20of%20the%20country %E2%80%99s%20finest%20colleges%2C%20and%20build%20 a%20foundation%20for%20a%20challenging%20career%20 of%20service%20to%20the%20nation%22&f=false) of Ebony magazine in 1990: "You receive a full scholarship, earn a degree from one of the country’s finest colleges, and build a foundation for a challenging career of service to the nation."

Chris
11-09-2015, 10:27 AM
i was thinking more of the federalist, which is the site taking the victory lap over this *fabrication*

try to keep up

The Federalist reported what Politico did.

Try to keep up is right.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 10:29 AM
So what you're saying is you do not know.

It would be a logical fallacy to argue from unknowns.
That is sage advise. And for those semantically inclined word parsers allow me to put that in simpler terms; *Never argue a point you know nothing about*.

del
11-09-2015, 10:30 AM
The Federalist reported what Politico did.

Try to keep up is right.

changing a headline is an admission of...changing a headline

the hacks at the federalist don't report, they offer opinions for consumption by the challenged

pedal harder

Mark III
11-09-2015, 10:31 AM
The Federalist reported what Politico did.

Try to keep up is right.

The Federalist "reported" something that never happened. Politico did not admit that it had fabricated the story about West Point. Can't you manage the simplest facts ?

Chris
11-09-2015, 10:31 AM
changing a headline is an admission of...changing a headline

the hacks at the federalist don't report, they offer opinions for consumption by the challenged

pedal harder

You have to actually look at the changes, del. Get back to us when you have a leg to stand on.

Gypsy
11-09-2015, 10:33 AM
Yeah, call me when the MSM calls HC's integrity into question over the *under sniper fire* and *I was named after Sir Edmund Hillary* BS.

She's been under attack from the GOP and the scrutiny of the media since 1992. I am NOT a Hillary fan and I will not defend her, but for Christ's sake try to be intelligent about your argument. The "Your mama is uglier than mine" approach is tiresome and ineffective.

Chris
11-09-2015, 10:33 AM
The Federalist "reported" something that never happened. Politico did not admit that it had fabricated the story about West Point. Can't you manage the simplest facts ?

It reported title and lede changes that serve as evidence Politico made up its original accusation. Like I said, facts and logic.

Matty
11-09-2015, 10:34 AM
13391

Mark III
11-09-2015, 10:37 AM
You get evidence and you laugh.

What's that about annoying a liberal with facts and logic.


What evidence? rofl to you too. The facts are straightforward. The Federalist wrote a headline saying that Politico had admitted fabricating the Carson story from whole cloth. That NEVER HAPPENED. End of story. I tried to explain to you yesterday that the Federalist was fudging the truth to "punish" Politico for what the Federalist thinks was the same thing Carson was being accused of doing (fabricating). But rather than acknowledge what should be obvious, you want to go on pretending that the Federalist made a truthful headline. You're beyond help.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 10:43 AM
rofl.
If sorry that's over your head, but that's on you. Politicos first headline was concocted, an out right lie or a fabrication (oops there's that word again) call it what you wish. They changed the headline because they were wrong.

Chris
11-09-2015, 10:49 AM
What evidence? rofl to you too. The facts are straightforward. The Federalist wrote a headline saying that Politico had admitted fabricating the Carson story from whole cloth. That NEVER HAPPENED. End of story. I tried to explain to you yesterday that the Federalist was fudging the truth to "punish" Politico for what the Federalist thinks was the same thing Carson was being accused of doing (fabricating). But rather than acknowledge what should be obvious, you want to go on pretending that the Federalist made a truthful headline. You're beyond help.


The Federalist detailed how Politico changed title and lede to the story. The changes are evidence it fabricated its original story.

You have quite the imagination but your spin is just made up out of whole cloth.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 10:49 AM
The Federalist "reported" something that never happened. Politico did not admit that it had fabricated the story about West Point. Can't you manage the simplest facts ?
Did Politico change the headline or not ?? And why ??

Chris
11-09-2015, 10:54 AM
Again, from the Federalist story:


Politico‘s Kyle Cheney admitted that he fabricated a negative story about Ben Carson. At least, according to his own standards, he admitted the grievous journalistic sin.

In a story published early on Friday, Politico’s Kyle Cheney authored a piece headlined “Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship” with a subhed “Carson’s campaign on Friday conceded that a central point in his inspirational personal story did not occur as he previously described.”

Those are facts. Simply logic says Politico admitted fabrication.

Mark III
11-09-2015, 11:02 AM
It reported title and lede changes that serve as evidence Politico made up its original accusation. Like I said, facts and logic.

Nonsense.

The Federalist said Politico admitted to fabricating the story. Politico made no such admission.

Beyond that, in the secondary headline the Federalist says that Politico admitted fabricating the story "out of whole cloth", which is even more absurd. Carson himself asserts the meeting with the Army officials. Where is the "whole cloth" ?

Archer0915
11-09-2015, 11:02 AM
Simmer down...wth? Whats with you lately? You get riled easy these days? :(

I get a little peeved when people argue over what I never said. Misunderstanding is one thing but saying I said, or making it look like I said, something I did not say peeeeessszzzzz me off.

Mark III
11-09-2015, 11:05 AM
13391

Obama's records are not sealed . That is a lie. From 8 years ago. That was debunked at that time. and again and again. get some new material.

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:08 AM
Problems with reading comprehension this morning ?? Scholarship vs appiontment is an inane argument when West Point uses the term itself.

I don't care about the term as much as I care about his saying he was offered one when it is clear that he wasn't. The only folks who can "offer" an appointment to a service academy are members of congress... and they don't just "offer" them unbidden. Either Carson applied to his congressman or senator, and was the most qualified of all the other applicants, and then was offered an appointment, or his story is total bullshit.

Matty
11-09-2015, 11:11 AM
Obama's records are not sealed . That is a lie. From 8 years ago. That was debunked at that time. and again and again. get some new material.



Where are they then? Have you seen them?

Bob
11-09-2015, 11:15 AM
Where are they then? Have you seen them?

This came up on TV recently. So, why are Obama's school records locked away?

Bob
11-09-2015, 11:17 AM
I don't care about the term as much as I care about his saying he was offered one when it is clear that he wasn't. The only folks who can "offer" an appointment to a service academy are members of congress... and they don't just "offer" them unbidden. Either Carson applied to his congressman or senator, and was the most qualified of all the other applicants, and then was offered an appointment, or his story is total bullshit.

Will you supply Carson's real statement on this? Not the fake by Politico.

If a General met him due to him being very good in ROTC, why do you care to begin with?

Safety
11-09-2015, 11:20 AM
Where are they then? Have you seen them?

There is a difference between confidential and sealed. A court has to "seal" a document, whereas, college transcripts are confidential. Just like my college transcripts, you can't walk up to my school and demand to see them. It's a silly meme related to birtherism.

Archer0915
11-09-2015, 11:21 AM
No, he didn't.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2015/11/06/carsons-westmoreland-story-match-records/75328960/

you sure? Just saying. Look he very well could have met him at a banquet in Feb where the general was in Detroit.

No matter. This should be a lesson to all young people and a few older ones as well. Do not embellish shit! Tell the truth or STFU!

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:25 AM
Will you supply Carson's real statement on this? Not the fake by Politico.

If a General met him due to him being very good in ROTC, why do you care to begin with?

I don't care at all. I merely point out that being good at ROTC is not equivalent to being offered an appointment to USMA. He fluffed up his resume a long time ago and he's kept the story going.

http://time.com/4103012/ben-carson-west-point/

Chris
11-09-2015, 11:26 AM
I don't care about the term as much as I care about his saying he was offered one when it is clear that he wasn't. The only folks who can "offer" an appointment to a service academy are members of congress... and they don't just "offer" them unbidden. Either Carson applied to his congressman or senator, and was the most qualified of all the other applicants, and then was offered an appointment, or his story is total bullshit.

You're still just making things up. The most reasonable explanation is someone told Carson he could get him in and Carson doesn't exactly remember because it was 30, 40 years ago.

What's funny is you and others making a mountain out a molehill. You won't have anything come general election time.

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:27 AM
Where are they then? Have you seen them?

and you haven't seen mine either.... but mine aren't sealed.... they are simply confidential.... just like the results of your GED and ESL classes are confidential.

Chris
11-09-2015, 11:27 AM
Nonsense.

The Federalist said Politico admitted to fabricating the story. Politico made no such admission.

Beyond that, in the secondary headline the Federalist says that Politico admitted fabricating the story "out of whole cloth", which is even more absurd. Carson himself asserts the meeting with the Army officials. Where is the "whole cloth" ?

The Federalist published the evidence. I just reposted it. You refuse to look at it.

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:28 AM
You're still just making things up. The most reasonable explanation is someone told Carson he could get him in and Carson doesn't exactly remember because it was 30, 40 years ago.

What's funny is you and others making a mountain out a molehill. You won't have anything come general election time.

what am I making up? Carson's own words are: In his autobiography, Gifted Hands, Carson writes that he as introduced “to General Westmoreland, and I had dinner with him and the Congressional Medal winners. Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

and that is bullshit. Unless someone can show me the congressional appointment.

Mark III
11-09-2015, 11:31 AM
The Federalist published the evidence. I just reposted it. You refuse to look at it.

Your "evidence" is not an admission of fabrication by Politico. Just show us a statement from someone at Politico admitting the fabrication. I know you have been asked this repeatedly. You haven't displayed such a statement from Politico, have you ? If you could, I suppose you would have done it by now.

Bob
11-09-2015, 11:33 AM
I don't care at all. I merely point out that being good at ROTC is not equivalent to being offered an appointment to USMA. He fluffed up his resume a long time ago and he's kept the story going.

http://time.com/4103012/ben-carson-west-point/

You know very well were he a Democrat, you would defend him till hell freezes over.

If free education at West Point does not amount to a scholarship, what will please you?

This was as a boy. Good grief.

Chris
11-09-2015, 11:35 AM
Your "evidence" is not an admission of fabrication by Politico. Just show us a statement from someone at Politico admitting the fabrication. I know you have been asked this repeatedly. You haven't displayed such a statement from Politico, have you ? If you could, I suppose you would have done it by now.

As I said, you need to use some simple logic from the facts to infer admission. You refuse to use logic. Instead you make up imaginative scenarios based on your prejudices against Carson.

Archer0915
11-09-2015, 11:40 AM
what am I making up? Carson's own words are: In his autobiography, Gifted Hands, Carson writes that he as introduced “to General Westmoreland, and I had dinner with him and the Congressional Medal winners. Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

and that is bull$#@!. Unless someone can show me the congressional appointment.

February 1969.


There are, however, several reports of an event in February of that year, similar to the one Carson described. Then, Westmoreland was the featured guest at a 1,500-person banquet to celebrate Medal of Honor recipient Dwight Johnson. The event drew prominent guests, including the governor at the time, the mayor of Detroit, the president of Ford Motor Company and nine previous Medal of Honor awardees, according to an Associated Press account of the event.Carson, a leader of the city’s ROTC program at the time, may have been among the invited guests at the $10-a-plate event.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/11/06/1445974/-Did-Ben-Carson-Meet-With-General-Westmoreland

The venue matches Carson's story.

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:42 AM
February 1969.



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/11/06/1445974/-Did-Ben-Carson-Meet-With-General-Westmoreland

The venue matches Carson's story.

oh really?

Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

hanger4
11-09-2015, 11:43 AM
Obama's records are not sealed . That is a lie. From 8 years ago. That was debunked at that time. and again and again. get some new material.
Already been throught this Mark III. Your semantics as to whether the records are *sealed* or whatever is irrelevant. They are not available for public scrutiny.

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:44 AM
You know very well were he a Democrat, you would defend him till hell freezes over.

If free education at West Point does not amount to a scholarship, what will please you?

This was as a boy. Good grief.

Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

true statement or not?

and if so, which congressman or senator offered it to him?

and the event may have happened when he was a boy, but he fluffed his resume as an adult.

Tahuyaman
11-09-2015, 11:44 AM
Even when a left wing publication admits they fabricated something, the blind lemmings can't admit it.

one has to ignore a lot in order to be a left wing racist hack.

Mark III
11-09-2015, 11:44 AM
As I said, you need to use some simple logic from the facts to infer admission. You refuse to use logic. Instead you make up imaginative scenarios based on your prejudices against Carson.


The Federalist used the language that they did in their headline BECAUSE of the language that Politico used in theirs, "admits" and "fabrication" . As I told you yesterday, that is the "satire" of it, they were trying to hoist Politico on their own petard.

I can lead the horse to water and so forth, but that is all I can do. I am pretty sure that to an extent Politico is still standing behind their story. So where the hell is the admission of fabrication ?

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:45 AM
Already been throught this Mark III. Your semantics as to whether the records are *sealed* or whatever is irrelevant. They are not available for public scrutiny.

are YOURS?

silvereyes
11-09-2015, 11:45 AM
You know very well were he a Democrat, you would defend him till hell freezes over.

If free education at West Point does not amount to a scholarship, what will please you?

This was as a boy. Good grief.

And you know damn good and well if he WERE a dem yall would be so far up his ass over this youd poke through his shoulder blades.

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:46 AM
Even when a left wing publication admits they fabricated something, the blind lemmings can't admit it.

So... Carson never said:
Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”??????

hanger4
11-09-2015, 11:48 AM
February 1969.



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/11/06/1445974/-Did-Ben-Carson-Meet-With-General-Westmoreland

The venue matches Carson's story.

OOPS ...... Let the semantics begin.

Chris
11-09-2015, 11:48 AM
The Federalist used the language that they did in their headline BECAUSE of the language that Politico used in theirs, "admits" and "fabrication" . As I told you yesterday, that is the "satire" of it, they were trying to hoist Politico on their own petard.

I can lead the horse to water and so forth, but that is all I can do. I am pretty sure that to an extent Politico is still standing behind their story. So where the hell is the admission of fabrication ?

All headlines sensationalize. The Federalist backed theirs up with evidence whereby logically Politico admitted it. Politico backed theirs up with fabrication. Associate yourself with fabricators if you wish.

Bob
11-09-2015, 11:48 AM
And you know damn good and well if he WERE a dem yall would be so far up his ass over this youd poke through his shoulder blades.

Not really. Some might, not me.

Chris
11-09-2015, 11:48 AM
So... Carson never said:
Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”??????

By whom? Do you know something no one else does?

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:49 AM
I'll bet when Carson was a lad, and he was playing baseball, he would hit the ball out of the sandlot and score the winning touchdown.

edit: touchdown, home run.... if it's just made up fluff to pad your resume, why worry about the accuracy of the words used, eh?

Archer0915
11-09-2015, 11:50 AM
oh really?

Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

They can get you appointments.

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:50 AM
By whom? Do you know something no one else does?

I don't. Do YOU know of any congressmen or senators that offered Ben Carson a "full scholarship to West Point"? I don't. West Point has no record of it. Carson, however, said it. and everybody on the right wants to just make it go away.

Bob
11-09-2015, 11:51 AM
So... Carson never said:
Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”??????

I posted a political fact showing West Point indeed speaks in such terms. As to what Carson said, it is not a matter of deep concern. I doubt you would vote for him so for you, it should be nothing at all.

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:51 AM
They can get you appointments.

who can? and more importantly who DID, in Carson's case? He claimed he was offered a full scholarship... that was obviously a false statement.

Chris
11-09-2015, 11:52 AM
I don't. Do YOU know of any congressmen or senators that offered Ben Carson a "full scholarship to West Point"? I don't. West Point has no record of it. Carson, however, said it. and everybody on the right wants to just make it go away.

So let's not engage in argumentum ad ignorantiam.

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:53 AM
As to what Carson said, it is not a matter of deep concern. I doubt you would vote for him so for you, it should be nothing at all.

he lied. no one offered him a full scholarship. the only people who CAN make such an appointment offer are senators and congressmen.

Peter1469
11-09-2015, 11:53 AM
In my 2 years in the Army, though I saw a few Generals, I spoke to but one. I believe he had one star. As he shifted, to my uneasiness, he did have the star on his shoulder.

A pilot had landed a fixed wing aircraft at the army field. During the landing, I gave the pilot needed data to land. Said General.

He came in with a flight jacket on and leaned into the doorway so I did not know his rank.

I forget how it happened precisely but somehow we talked about my years of experience piledriving. He tells me he is willing to get me assigned to OCS and then to engineering school and assigned to his unit in combat engineers.

Was it a scholarship? No, but it was no cost to me.

Carson must have been with a General as he says and said officer simply told him he could help him into westpoint at no cost.

I don't get the big deal of this personally. It is nothing like Reverend Wright eh, the guy Obama threw under the bus?

That is the way that I see it.

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:54 AM
So let's not engage in argumentum ad ignorantiam.

people here are trying to make this about politico, as if Carson himself did not tell a glaring falsehood. Let's not engage in such obfuscation, OK?

Mac-7
11-09-2015, 11:55 AM
I don't. Do YOU know of any congressmen or senators that offered Ben Carson a "full scholarship to West Point"? I don't. West Point has no record of it. Carson, however, said it. and everybody on the right wants to just make it go away.

Liberals cannot compete on the issues so they have to use personal smears instead

Tahuyaman
11-09-2015, 11:55 AM
I posted a political fact showing West Point indeed speaks in such terms. As to what Carson said, it is not a matter of deep concern. I doubt you would vote for him so for you, it should be nothing at all.

The bottom line, The US Military Academy does recruit students and arranges appointments for those kids. Using the word "scholarship" is a non issue.

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:58 AM
The bottom line, The US Military Academy does recruit students and arranges appointments for those kids. Using the word "scholarship" is a non issue.

how about this bottom line: did any congressman or senator offer Ben Carson such an appointment?

If not, then is this an accurate statement?

"Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

Archer0915
11-09-2015, 11:58 AM
who can? and more importantly who DID, in Carson's case? He claimed he was offered a full scholarship... that was obviously a false statement.

Oh so it has never been said "we can get you an appointment, we want you, just apply"? I think I have you on this.

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:59 AM
Liberals cannot compete on the issues so they have to use personal smears instead

and anyone on the right who fluffs (lies about) his resume is just fine with you.... as long as he's on the right, that is.

Bob
11-09-2015, 12:00 PM
he lied. no one offered him a full scholarship. the only people who CAN make such an appointment offer are senators and congressmen.

There is no way for you to know that.

Say, what are the charges to West Point students?

Actually, they pay nothing plus get $10,000

Sounds like a scholarship to me.

Tahuyaman
11-09-2015, 12:01 PM
Some people are just too hard headed and partisan to get past the left wing narrative.

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:02 PM
Oh so it has never been said "we can get you an appointment, we want you, just apply"? I think I have you on this.

I have no idea whether it was said... I DO know that nobody but a congressman or senator can make such a legitimate offer, and then, only after a long and arduous application process, which Ben Carson clearly did not go through.

If the guy in Times Square rolls up his coat sleeve and tells you he can sell you a genuine Rolex for fifty dollars, I would HOPE that you wouldn't take his offer seriously.

Chris
11-09-2015, 12:04 PM
people here are trying to make this about politico, as if Carson himself did not tell a glaring falsehood. Let's not engage in such obfuscation, OK?

That's the problem though, it's unknown if Carson lied. Political initially fabricated that he lied, it then retracted that by changing title and lede to story. There's no obfuscation, we're left with: what exactly did Carson mean when he wrote and spoke about West Point? We don't really know. End of story.

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:05 PM
There is no way for you to know that.

Say, what are the charges to West Point students?

Actually, they pay nothing plus get $10,000

Sounds like a scholarship to me.

there is every way for me to know that. I know exactly how the system for applying to and being appointed to a service academy works. I would venture to say that I am the only person on this site with first hand knowledge of that process. NOBODY outside of enlisted ranks gets appointed unless they apply to a congressman or a senator. NOBODY is offered an appointment without such an application. Carson did not apply. West Point has no record of his application nor of any congressman or senator offering him an appointment which he subsequently turned down.

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:07 PM
That's the problem though, it's unknown if Carson lied. Political initially fabricated that he lied, it then retracted that by changing title and lede to story. There's no obfuscation, we're left with: what exactly did Carson mean when he wrote and spoke about West Point? We don't really know. End of story.

he said this in his book:

"Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

The process does not allow for such an event barring Carson's active participation in the application process. And if he HAD participated in the process and WAS offered an appointment, West Point would have a record of such an appointment. They do not.

Mark III
11-09-2015, 12:08 PM
February 1969.



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/11/06/1445974/-Did-Ben-Carson-Meet-With-General-Westmoreland

The venue matches Carson's story.


In his book, Carson says , specifically, that he met Westmoreland on Memorial Day 1969. Obviously Carson mis-remembered that meeting. What else did he mis-remember?

Bob
11-09-2015, 12:13 PM
there is every way for me to know that. I know exactly how the system for applying to and being appointed to a service academy works. I would venture to say that I am the only person on this site with first hand knowledge of that process. NOBODY outside of enlisted ranks gets appointed unless they apply to a congressman or a senator. NOBODY is offered an appointment without such an application. Carson did not apply. West Point has no record of his application nor of any congressman or senator offering him an appointment which he subsequently turned down.

Carson states he did not apply. Westmoreland died years ago.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 12:14 PM
I have no idea whether it was said... I DO know that nobody but a congressman or senator can make such a legitimate offer, and then, only after a long and arduous application process, which Ben Carson clearly did not go through.

If the guy in Times Square rolls up his coat sleeve and tells you he can sell you a genuine Rolex for fifty dollars, I would HOPE that you wouldn't take his offer seriously.
Aaaaah yes, semantics thy name is maineman. LOL

Chris
11-09-2015, 12:14 PM
Hell, I don't care about Carson, it just dismays me how petty politics is becoming.

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:16 PM
Aaaaah yes, semantics thy name is maineman. LOL

just be honest for once.

Is this a true statement:

"Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

given what he has said about not pursuing West Point, could this possibly be a true statement?

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:18 PM
Carson states he did not apply. Westmoreland died years ago.

Carson states:

"Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”


and, if one does not apply for an appointment to west point, they cannot be offered such an appointment. And if they HAD been made such an offer, West Point would have a record of it, which they do not.

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:18 PM
Carson states he did not apply. Westmoreland died years ago.
you are being willfully obtuse.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 12:22 PM
are YOURS?
If I was a politician your damn right they would be, unless of course there was something I needed to hide. :(

Bob
11-09-2015, 12:23 PM
Look Maineman, you get on kicks and stay there for hours upon hours

The fact is, West point sells it's program of free school and the ten thousand dollar stipend as a scholarship. I think this bothers you a hell of a lot.

Carson is how old today? When he was in ROTC, what year was that?

Still, since West Point calls it a scholarship, I don't plan to call them liars.

Anyway, you must also know that ROTC is the equivalent of West Point since when done, they are commissioned officers.

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:29 PM
Look Maineman, you get on kicks and stay there for hours upon hours

The fact is, West point sells it's program of free school and the ten thousand dollar stipend as a scholarship. I think this bothers you a hell of a lot.

Carson is how old today? When he was in ROTC, what year was that?

Still, since West Point calls it a scholarship, I don't plan to call them liars.

Anyway, you must also know that ROTC is the equivalent of West Point since when done, they are commissioned officers.

the word scholarship is not that big of a deal to me... the fact that he lied when he said it was offered to him is.

Peter1469
11-09-2015, 12:30 PM
There is no way for you to know that.

Say, what are the charges to West Point students?

Actually, they pay nothing plus get $10,000

Sounds like a scholarship to me.

I could be wrong, but I think that they get paid as an E-5 sergeant.

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:30 PM
If I was a politician your damn right they would be, unless of course there was something I needed to hide. :(

can you give me a link to another politician's academic transcripts? McCain's? Romney's? Rubio's? Bush's? ANYBODY?

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:31 PM
I could be wrong, but I think that they get paid as an E-5 sergeant.

they get paid 1/2 of an O-1's starting pay.

Peter1469
11-09-2015, 12:34 PM
I could be wrong, but I think that they get paid as an E-5 sergeant.

I checked- (http://www.usma.edu/admissions/sitepages/faq_soldiers.aspx) if you get accepted to West Point from the military you get the pay at your current rank, but the time at West Point does not count for retirement purposes. Skip the congressman. Your company commander can make the recommendation for appointment.

edit:

Misread it. At the prep school you get paid at your current rank and the time counts for retirement. At West Point, you get cadet pay (which Mainman covered above) and the time does not count for retirement.

Bob
11-09-2015, 12:35 PM
the word scholarship is not that big of a deal to me... the fact that he lied when he said it was offered to him is.

I am sure that is all standing in your way of voting for Dr. Carson. :rollseyes:

maineman
11-09-2015, 12:42 PM
I am sure that is all standing in your way of voting for Dr. Carson. :rollseyes:

not at all... clearly, his lying about West Point will not stop YOU from voting for him.

Bob
11-09-2015, 12:44 PM
not at all... clearly, his lying about West Point will not stop YOU from voting for him.

Calling him a liar crosses a red line. If he is the one that runs vs the Democrat next year, sure I would support him.

I have not given up on Kasich yet.

Tahuyaman
11-09-2015, 12:46 PM
Maineman is possibly the most intellectually dishonest person here.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 01:18 PM
can you give me a link to another politician's academic transcripts? McCain's? Romney's? Rubio's? Bush's? ANYBODY?
http://m.mentalfloss.com/article.php?id=28826

Archer0915
11-09-2015, 01:38 PM
So
I have no idea whether it was said... I DO know that nobody but a congressman or senator can make such a legitimate offer, and then, only after a long and arduous application process, which Ben Carson clearly did not go through.

If the guy in Times Square rolls up his coat sleeve and tells you he can sell you a genuine Rolex for fifty dollars, I would HOPE that you wouldn't take his offer seriously.
So you lied? You were not asked to apply? Understand that these appointments, many times, come from the recommendation of someone other than a member of congress (EDIT for clarification: A name is put in the congressman face and he may or may not look, HE SIGNS OFF ON THE APPOINTMENT.). What you think all it takes is a letter to a congressman? Oh much more and you do know it.

For you to say that what Carson described is outside the realm of possibility is dishonest.

Mac-7
11-09-2015, 01:52 PM
and anyone on the right who fluffs (lies about) his resume is just fine with you.... as long as he's on the right, that is.

Carson didn't lie

Politico lied about Carson

maineman
11-09-2015, 02:43 PM
Carson didn't lie

Politico lied about Carson

is this a true statement?

"Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

Archer0915
11-09-2015, 02:48 PM
is this a true statement?

"Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

Fill out the application and you will receive an appointment and be accepted...

Full scholarship, for the most part, no?

Tell me it does not happen, I dare you!

maineman
11-09-2015, 02:50 PM
So
So you lied? You were not asked to apply? Understand that these appointments, many times, come from the recommendation of someone other than a member of congress (EDIT for clarification: A name is put in the congressman face and he may or may not look, HE SIGNS OFF ON THE APPOINTMENT.). What you think all it takes is a letter to a congressman? Oh much more and you do know it.

For you to say that what Carson described is outside the realm of possibility is dishonest.

It takes writing a letter to your congressman expressing an interest in a possible appointment to a service academy. It involves filling out a long application form that the congressman then sends you. It then involves taking a Service Academy Aptitude test (the military's version of the SAT's), it involves scoring well enough on that test to be considered for follow on interviews, with the congressman's staff or select committee of local business people tasked by the congressman to weed out the applicants. It involves beating out all of the rest of your competition and then being recommended by that committee and chosen by the congressman who THEN AND ONLY THEN offers you an appointment to a service academy. AND THEN... you have to pass the physical exam and THEN, your appointment is finalized. Carson did NONE of that. For him to then turn around and say, in his autobiography, "Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.” is a false statement. Can that be any clearer for you?

maineman
11-09-2015, 02:51 PM
Fill out the application and you will receive an appointment and be accepted...

Full scholarship, for the most part, no?

Tell me it does not happen, I dare you!

I just explained all the steps needed to be taken. Carson did not do any of them. You can't be this obtuse, can you?

maineman
11-09-2015, 02:55 PM
In my case, 300 guys from my congressional district took the service academy aptitude test. Of those, twelve were chosen to be interviewed for four total service academy openings: two at Annapolis, one at West Point and one at Colorado Springs. The process was grueling and lengthy. Carson did not participate in that process. His statement of "Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.” is not true.

Archer0915
11-09-2015, 02:56 PM
What Does It Cost to Go to West Point?
Nothing.Your only expenditure will be the effort you’ll put forth to set yourselfup for a lifetime of success. Other than a nominal initial deposit to cover incidentals like the a notebook computer, this four-year college experience is a fully funded scholarship.This includes tuition, room and board, medical and dental care, and more. You’ll also get an annual salary of more than $10,000 a year as a cadet at West Point, with which you’ll buy things like your uniforms, books and supplies. After graduation you will serve on active duty as an officer in the U.S. Army for a minimum of five years, followed by three years in an active or inactive Army Reserve component. Graduates consider this to be a small repayment for the West Point education and leadership experience during your time at the Academy.
USMA site

Also:


Service-Connected Nominations - Who Can Apply?




Sons and Daughters of "career military personnel" (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard)
The category "career military personnel" refers to members of an armed force (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard) who are on active duty (other than for training) and currently serving with at least eight years of continuous service on active duty, or who are, or who died while they were, retired with pay or granted retired or retainer pay. Also included are service members currently serving in the reserve component who are credited with at least eight continuous years of service computed under section 12733 of Title 10, United States Code. Finally, reservists who would be, or who died while they would have been, entitled to retirement pay except for not having attained 60 years of age are also included in this category.

Must furnish a statement of service, retirement orders, or casualty report
A stepparent's military service is applicable for this category only if the applicant was adopted.

Regular Army and Reserve Components (Army, Army Reserve, and Army National Guard)
To request a nomination under this category, submit your commander's endorsement (http://www.usma.edu/admissions/Shared%20Documents/Commanders_Endorsement_USMA_Form_351-12.pdf), which is included in your application. Please provide your commander with the following Commander's Guidance that can be used during his interview with you. Soldiers who are not offered an appointment to West Point are automatically considered for enrollment in the United States Military Academy Preparatory School (USMAPS).
Sons and Daughters of Deceased or Disabled Armed Forces Veterans
This category is for sons and daughters of deceased or 100% disabled Armed Forces veterans whose death or disability was determined by the Veterans' Administration to be service-connected, and for sons and daughters of military personnel or federally employed civilians who are in a missing or captured status.

Include a brief statement concerning the date, place and cause of death or the details of disability together with the claim number assigned to the veteran parent's case by the Veteran's Administration (if appropriate).

Sons and Daughters of Persons Awarded the Medal of Honor
Sons and daughters of Medal of Honor winners are eligible under this category.

Include a brief statement of the date and circumstances of the award of the Medal of Honor, if applicable.

Army Junior and Senior ROTC Programs and Honor ROTC Units of Other Services
Applicants currently enrolled in an Army Junior or Senior Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) program or an ROTC program from another branch of service that has been designated as an Honor Unit with Distinction are eligible for a nomination in this category. A request for a ROTC Nomination should be made through your Professor of Military Science or Senior Instructor who must fill out and submit a Request for ROTC Nomination (Form 5-497) (http://www.usma.edu/admissions/Shared%20Documents/ROTC_Nomination_Form_5-497.pdf) to the Director of Admissions, U.S. Military Academy.
NOTE: You must have Adobe Reader installed on your computer to view the Sample Statement below. A free version of the Adobe Reader software is available for download at the Adobe website www.Adobe.com (http://www.adobe.com/)

Mac-7
11-09-2015, 02:59 PM
is this a true statement?

"Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

His ROTC advisors told him he could get into West Point at no cost to him

In official jargon that's called an appointment

But to Carson that was a scholarship

maineman
11-09-2015, 02:59 PM
USMA site

what does THAT have to do with "Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

I didn't pay a dime for MY education at Annapolis either.... but the ONLY person who offered me an appointment was my congressman. He's the only guy who can make such a offer to a civilian. Carson had no such offer made to him because he did not participate in the process of applying for an appointment.

duh

maineman
11-09-2015, 03:01 PM
His ROTC advisors told him he could get into West Point at no cost to him

In official jargon that's called an appointment

But to Carson that was a scholarship

sure he COULD get into West Point.... BUT HE DIDN'T!!!!

He didn't apply and NOBODY offered him a scholarship.... BECAUSE HE DIDN'T APPLY FOR ONE!

Archer0915
11-09-2015, 03:02 PM
It takes writing a letter to your congressman expressing an interest in a possible appointment to a service academy. It involves filling out a long application form that the congressman then sends you. It then involves taking a Service Academy Aptitude test (the military's version of the SAT's), it involves scoring well enough on that test to be considered for follow on interviews, with the congressman's staff or select committee of local business people tasked by the congressman to weed out the applicants. It involves beating out all of the rest of your competition and then being recommended by that committee and chosen by the congressman who THEN AND ONLY THEN offers you an appointment to a service academy. AND THEN... you have to pass the physical exam and THEN, your appointment is finalized. Carson did NONE of that. For him to then turn around and say, in his autobiography, "Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.” is a false statement. Can that be any clearer for you?


I just explained all the steps needed to be taken. Carson did not do any of them. You can't be this obtuse, can you?


In my case, 300 guys from my congressional district took the service academy aptitude test. Of those, twelve were chosen to be interviewed for four total service academy openings: two at Annapolis, one at West Point and one at Colorado Springs. The process was grueling and lengthy. Carson did not participate in that process. His statement of "Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.” is not true.

So if he was told that all he need do is apply and he would be accepted because they wanted him and people like him... Sorry I do not go along with your views here.

maineman
11-09-2015, 03:04 PM
USMA site

Also:

"APPLYING" is not synonymous with being offered an appointment. AS I said.... 300 guys took the test in my congressional district alone.... all vying for four total slots. Carson didn't even APPLY. He was told he COULD apply, but he chose not to. I can tell you that, if you are over 35 years of age, you can run for president. That statement ought not to make you think you can start measuring for the new drapes in the Oval Office.

maineman
11-09-2015, 03:06 PM
So if he was told that all he need do is apply and he would be accepted because they wanted him and people like him... Sorry I do not go along with your views here.

I don't care. NOBODY offered him a scholarship to West Point. They indicated he was just the kind of guy they were looking for and they may have actually encouraged him to start the process. HE DID NOT. 300 guys took the test... 4 of us got appointments. Carson didn't even take the test.

Archer0915
11-09-2015, 03:07 PM
"APPLYING" is not synonymous with being offered an appointment. AS I said.... 300 guys took the test in my congressional district alone.... all vying for four total slots. Carson didn't even APPLY. He was told he COULD apply, but he chose not to. I can tell you that, if you are over 35 years of age, you can run for president. That statement ought not to make you think you can start measuring for the new drapes in the Oval Office.

Understand that if they want you, and you apply, you WILL get an appointment.

Service connected nominations!

Archer0915
11-09-2015, 03:08 PM
I don't care. NOBODY offered him a scholarship to West Point. They indicated he was just the kind of guy they were looking for and they may have actually encouraged him to start the process. HE DID NOT. 300 guys took the test... 4 of us got appointments. Carson didn't even take the test.

You miss my point, he did not have to apply! He was offered it (the opportunity) and refused. And yes! If they want you in, you get in.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 03:45 PM
just be honest for once.

Is this a true statement:

"Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

given what he has said about not pursuing West Point, could this possibly be a true statement?
Sure, why not ?? I know several young people that were offered multiple scholarships, and ya know what, they only chose one and turned down the others.

Chris
11-09-2015, 04:11 PM
I don't care. NOBODY offered him a scholarship to West Point. They indicated he was just the kind of guy they were looking for and they may have actually encouraged him to start the process. HE DID NOT. 300 guys took the test... 4 of us got appointments. Carson didn't even take the test.

That bolded part could well be exactly what Carson meant. That's a what you're not getting.

Archer0915
11-09-2015, 04:30 PM
That bolded part could well be exactly what Carson meant. That's a what you're not getting.

And recall all the grand promises they make. All the lies they tell many people to see if they make the cut.

Mac-7
11-09-2015, 04:35 PM
sure he COULD get into West Point.... BUT HE DIDN'T!!!!

He didn't apply and NOBODY offered him a scholarship.... BECAUSE HE DIDN'T APPLY FOR ONE!

Carson never claimed he attended West Point

maineman
11-09-2015, 05:45 PM
Carson never claimed he attended West Point

and I never said he did. What he DID claim was that he was "offered a full scholarship to West Point", which he was not.... because the only civilians who get an offer for an appointment to West Point are those that, 1) fill out an application, 2) take the service academy aptitude test, 3) do well on the test, 4) get interviewed by a committee working for the congressman, 5) get selected by that committee and then get nominated by the congressman... and THEN 6) pass the physical. Carson did NONE of those things, by his own admission.

Gypsy
11-09-2015, 05:46 PM
and I never said he did. What he DID claim was that he was "offered a full scholarship to West Point", which he was not.... because the only civilians who get an offer for an appointment to West Point are those that, 1) fill out an application, 2) take the service academy aptitude test, 3) do well on the test, 4) get interviewed by a committee working for the congressman, 5) get selected by that committee and then get nominated by the congressman... and THEN 6) pass the physical. Carson did NONE of those things, by his own admission.


It may be time to walk away while shaking our heads.

maineman
11-09-2015, 05:47 PM
That bolded part could well be exactly what Carson meant. That's a what you're not getting.

hey, I think you should run for President!


Now that you're been elected, can I be your secretary of defense?


"I was offered a full scholarship to West Point" is an untrue statement by Ben Carter.... why is that so hard to just accept?

maineman
11-09-2015, 05:49 PM
Sure, why not ?? I know several young people that were offered multiple scholarships, and ya know what, they only chose one and turned down the others.

now, if Carter had, in fact, been OFFERED an appointment to West Point and then turned it down, the above statement would contain some tiny degree of relevance..... BUT HE WASN'T offered any such thing! Jeez.

maineman
11-09-2015, 05:51 PM
You miss my point, he did not have to apply! He was offered it (the opportunity) and refused. And yes! If they want you in, you get in.

so every kid whose guidance counselor in high school suggests that he might want to think about a service academy can, years later, write "I was offered a full scholarship to West Point" and that would be perfectly OK with you? That would be a truthful statement?

del
11-09-2015, 06:22 PM
i can't wait until general carson gets elected and starts building granaries.

http://www.arabacademy.com/arabic-blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/4-pyramids-giza1.jpg

hanger4
11-09-2015, 06:44 PM
hey, I think you should run for President!


Now that you're been elected, can I be your secretary of defense?


"I was offered a full scholarship to West Point" is an untrue statement by Ben Carter.... why is that so hard to just accept?

I know of a young lady, athlete, the Black Knights asked her to play softball at the academy. She said no and went else where. Was she offered a scholarship/appointment or not ??

maineman
11-09-2015, 06:57 PM
I know of a young lady, athlete, the Black Knights asked her to play softball at the academy. She said no and went else where. Was she offered a scholarship/appointment or not ??

did she apply to her congressman, take the exam, do well on the exam, and subsequently get an appointment from her congressman? If so, then yes she was. Otherwise, she was just encouraged to apply... lots of folks get encouraged to apply. Few are chosen.

Gypsy
11-09-2015, 07:01 PM
I know of a young lady, athlete, the Black Knights asked her to play softball at the academy. She said no and went else where. Was she offered a scholarship/appointment or not ??

She was offered an opportunity to apply and play. That's not an appointment or a scholarship.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 07:15 PM
She was offered an opportunity to apply and play. That's not an appointment or a scholarship.

Don't ya just love semantics ?? She was was offered from other institutions and the one she accepted she still had to qualify to attend. Who knows if Carson would have passed or qualified or whatever to West Point, the 'offer' was made, as far as we know.

del
11-09-2015, 07:18 PM
we know nothing of the kind.

we know that general carson claims he was offered a *scholarship* to usma

there's no record of such an offer being made nor of his having applied to west point according to usma.

the pyramids, otoh, are filled to bursting with wheat.

so he's got that going for him, which is nice.

texan
11-09-2015, 07:23 PM
Where is the proof that Politico admitted to fabricating the Ben Carson controversy?

I've looked through the forum. I've looked at Politico's web site. I've checked Fox, CNN, BBC, MSNBC as well as FACTcheck.org and even Snopes.

They didn't fabricate anything, but they did backtrack and change the inaccurate title. Also, after listening to Carson he wins. Basically saying, "it was 35 to 50 years ago I can't remember everything exactly, show me who can and I will sit at their knee and learn from them" (in other words this wasn't that big a deal I was going into medicine). They told me to come and I would be accepted no problems, thats like a scholarship and I can see how someone could say that many years later.

In fact if we were talking to keep it simple I would probably tell you I was offered a scholarship to West Point. It is easier than explaining how they actually pay for you to go there. It is the same thing. Scholarship = Free, appointment/recommendation = Free.

FYI the CNN attack on the knife was recounted by his mother in an interview in the late 1990's, said he exploded at times. Oops CNN should have been serious about their research instead of operating with an agenda.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 07:32 PM
we know nothing of the kind.

we know that general carson claims he was offered a *scholarship* to usma

there's no record of such an offer being made nor of his having applied to west point according to usma.

the pyramids, otoh, are filled to bursting with wheat.

so he's got that going for him, which is nice.

Carson said he never applied del. Do try and keep up. :grin:

Gypsy
11-09-2015, 07:36 PM
They didn't fabricate anything, but they did backtrack and change the inaccurate title. Also, after listening to Carson he wins. Basically saying, "it was 35 to 50 years ago I can't remember everything exactly, show me who can and I will sit at their knee and learn from them" (in other words this wasn't that big a deal I was going into medicine). They told me to come and I would be accepted no problems, thats like a scholarship and I can see how someone could say that many years later.

In fact if we were talking to keep it simple I would probably tell you I was offered a scholarship to West Point. It is easier than explaining how they actually pay for you to go there. It is the same thing. Scholarship = Free, appointment/recommendation = Free.

FYI the CNN attack on the knife was recounted by his mother in an interview in the late 1990's, said he exploded at times. Oops CNN should have been serious about their research instead of operating with an agenda.

I thought it was a hammer.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 07:43 PM
They didn't fabricate anything, but they did backtrack and change the inaccurate title. Also, after listening to Carson he wins. Basically saying, "it was 35 to 50 years ago I can't remember everything exactly, show me who can and I will sit at their knee and learn from them" (in other words this wasn't that big a deal I was going into medicine). They told me to come and I would be accepted no problems, thats like a scholarship and I can see how someone could say that many years later.

In fact if we were talking to keep it simple I would probably tell you I was offered a scholarship to West Point. It is easier than explaining how they actually pay for you to go there. It is the same thing. Scholarship = Free, appointment/recommendation = Free.

FYI the CNN attack on the knife was recounted by his mother in an interview in the late 1990's, said he exploded at times. Oops CNN should have been serious about their research instead of operating with an agenda.
As I been reading up on this I learned WP pays their cadets 10 grand a year. Of course they pay for uniforms laptop and I believe books out of that. But what I'm driving at is that West Point pays their NCAA athletes to play. No other NCAA schools can do that. Just a tid-bit.

texan
11-09-2015, 07:47 PM
Where is the proof that Politico admitted to fabricating the Ben Carson controversy?

I've looked through the forum. I've looked at Politico's web site. I've checked Fox, CNN, BBC, MSNBC as well as FACTcheck.org and even Snopes.

schol·ar·ship
ˈskälərˌSHip/
noun


1.
academic study or achievement; learning of a high level.


synonyms:
learning (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+learning&sa=X&ved=0CB0Q_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), book learning (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+book+learning&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), knowledge (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+knowledge&sa=X&ved=0CB8Q_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), erudition (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+erudition&sa=X&ved=0CCAQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), education (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+education&sa=X&ved=0CCEQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), letters,culture (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+culture&sa=X&ved=0CCIQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), academic study, academic achievement"a center of medieval scholarship"






2.
a grant or payment made to support a student's education, awarded on the basis of academic or other achievement.


synonyms:
grant (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+grant&sa=X&ved=0CCQQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), award (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+award&sa=X&ved=0CCUQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), endowment (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+endowment&sa=X&ved=0CCYQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), payment (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+payment&sa=X&ved=0CCcQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), bursary (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+bursary&sa=X&ved=0CCgQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo)"a scholarship of $200 per semester"




Based on this I can absolutely say they lied if anyone wants to parse some words....I am not a Carson Cheerleader for the record. If someone told him if he applied at West Point his schooling would be paid for no matter how you say it, you were technically scholarshipped.

maineman
11-09-2015, 07:48 PM
As I been reading up on this I learned WP pays their cadets 10 grand a year. Of course they pay for uniforms laptop and I believe books out of that. But what I'm driving at is that West Point pays their NCAA athletes to play. No other NCAA schools can do that. Just a tid-bit.

that has been the case for all the service academies for a long long time. And they don't pay their athletes to play as they pay all of their students one half of an ensign's (or second lieutenant's) pay whether they participate in intercollegiate athletics or not. And Carson was NOT offered a full scholarship. He didn't even apply, didn't take the test.... nada. Somebody said that he was just the sort of guy the Point was looking for.... but they said that to a lot of guys - especially back then when they were cannon fodder in Nam. He fluffed his resume.

maineman
11-09-2015, 07:49 PM
schol·ar·ship
ˈskälərˌSHip/
noun


1.
academic study or achievement; learning of a high level.


synonyms:
learning (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+learning&sa=X&ved=0CB0Q_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), book learning (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+book+learning&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), knowledge (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+knowledge&sa=X&ved=0CB8Q_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), erudition (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+erudition&sa=X&ved=0CCAQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), education (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+education&sa=X&ved=0CCEQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), letters,culture (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+culture&sa=X&ved=0CCIQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), academic study, academic achievement"a center of medieval scholarship"






2.
a grant or payment made to support a student's education, awarded on the basis of academic or other achievement.


synonyms:
grant (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+grant&sa=X&ved=0CCQQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), award (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+award&sa=X&ved=0CCUQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), endowment (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+endowment&sa=X&ved=0CCYQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), payment (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+payment&sa=X&ved=0CCcQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo), bursary (https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1366&bih=643&q=define+bursary&sa=X&ved=0CCgQ_SowAGoVChMIq-ft1NCEyQIVRm0-Ch18zQGo)"a scholarship of $200 per semester"




Based on this I can absolutely say they lied if anyone wants to parse some words....I am not a Carson Cheerleader for the record.


Carson was not offered an appointment.... even if you call it a scholarship, which it is not, he wasn't offered one. He lied.

del
11-09-2015, 07:51 PM
Carson said he never applied del. Do try and keep up. :grin:

and west point says there's no record of an offer.

keep believing :rofl:

exploited
11-09-2015, 08:01 PM
I'm of the opinion that it isn't good enough for a Presidential candidate to say something as sloppy as Carson did. Whether he lied or didn't, it's not befitting the office. Here's a very accomplished surgeon, and he's talking about armed robberies, how he'd react in a school shooting, scholarships he didn't take, etc.

I get the same feeling of disdain when I see Hillary Clinton. Snipers in Bosnia lol

hanger4
11-09-2015, 08:05 PM
and west point says there's no record of an offer.

keep believing :rofl:

West Point keeps a record of all offers ?? Even those that don't apply ??

del
11-09-2015, 08:11 PM
West Point keeps a record of all offers ?? Even those that don't apply ??

they have no record of an offer being made

do with it what you will

just remember, we've got plenty of grain, thanks to general carson

hanger4
11-09-2015, 08:12 PM
that has been the case for all the service academies for a long long time. And they don't pay their athletes to play as they pay all of their students one half of an ensign's (or second lieutenant's) pay whether they participate in intercollegiate athletics or not. And Carson was NOT offered a full scholarship. He didn't even apply, didn't take the test.... nada. Somebody said that he was just the sort of guy the Point was looking for.... but they said that to a lot of guys - especially back then when they were cannon fodder in Nam. He fluffed his resume.

What part of 'offer and application are not the same' don't you understand ??

del
11-09-2015, 08:13 PM
What part of 'offer and application are not the same' don't you understand ??

what part of bullshit and ben carson are the same don't you understand?

Chris
11-09-2015, 08:16 PM
what part of bullshit and ben carson are the same don't you understand?

That didn't even make sense, del.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 08:25 PM
they have no record of an offer being made

do with it what you will

just remember, we've got plenty of grain, thanks to general carson

Having no record of an offer being made doesn't mean an offer wasn't made. This is stupid, all those claiming Carson lied are playing semantics with the words 'offer' 'scholarship' 'appointment'. Offers can be made whether or not the offerie applies. If the offer is accepted the application process begins and that generates a record. Hey who knows, Carson may have lied, but the reasons given here claiming lie prove nothing.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 08:37 PM
what part of bullshit and ben carson are the same don't you understand?

I can see it now.

General O High Mucky Muck: Son, I like you you're a smart kid. I can get you in West Point if you want to go.

Smart Kid: Thanks but no thanks General I want to attend Yale Premed.

General O High Mucky Muck: Excuse me Smart Kid I need to make a phone call.

Smart Kid: A phone call ?

General O High Mucky Muck: Yes, I need to call West Point so they can make a record of the offer you turned down.

Gypsy
11-09-2015, 08:39 PM
Is this just a common battle between Maine and Hanger? Does it ever end?

hanger4
11-09-2015, 09:24 PM
Is this just a common battle between Maine and Hanger? Does it ever end?
Not really. I tend to grow bored with maines semantics and let him rant on with others. Today I was bored with the rain confining me inside so I argued his semantics. He was doing much the same with another poster about the word guilty in different thread. Maine was being legalistic and the other taking an over all view of the word.

del
11-09-2015, 09:25 PM
That didn't even make sense, del.

i'll type slower if that helps you, though i don't hold out much hope

del
11-09-2015, 09:26 PM
I can see it now.

General O High Mucky Muck: Son, I like you you're a smart kid. I can get you in West Point if you want to go.

Smart Kid: Thanks but no thanks General I want to attend Yale Premed.

General O High Mucky Muck: Excuse me Smart Kid I need to make a phone call.

Smart Kid: A phone call ?

General O High Mucky Muck: Yes, I need to call West Point so they can make a record of the offer you turned down.

whatever gets you through the night, hon.

hanger4
11-09-2015, 09:32 PM
whatever gets you through the night, hon.

:tongue:

maineman
11-09-2015, 10:23 PM
I can see it now.

General O High Mucky Muck: Son, I like you you're a smart kid. I can get you in West Point if you want to go.

Smart Kid: Thanks but no thanks General I want to attend Yale Premed.

General O High Mucky Muck: Excuse me Smart Kid I need to make a phone call.

Smart Kid: A phone call ?

General O High Mucky Muck: Yes, I need to call West Point so they can make a record of the offer you turned down.

and you think that generals get to circumvent the appointment process and just "get" anyone they want into West Point?

:rofl:

Dr. Who
11-09-2015, 11:06 PM
It takes writing a letter to your congressman expressing an interest in a possible appointment to a service academy. It involves filling out a long application form that the congressman then sends you. It then involves taking a Service Academy Aptitude test (the military's version of the SAT's), it involves scoring well enough on that test to be considered for follow on interviews, with the congressman's staff or select committee of local business people tasked by the congressman to weed out the applicants. It involves beating out all of the rest of your competition and then being recommended by that committee and chosen by the congressman who THEN AND ONLY THEN offers you an appointment to a service academy. AND THEN... you have to pass the physical exam and THEN, your appointment is finalized. Carson did NONE of that. For him to then turn around and say, in his autobiography, "Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.” is a false statement. Can that be any clearer for you?
Not to be a curmudgeon, but is it possible that highly placed personnel in the military have at times, abbreviated that process? I suspect that they have, not that I am saying that this was the case in this situation, but it is possible. Is it also possible that partisan media spin stories according to their particular point of view. Most certainly. I expect that the more curious journalists in society with no ax to grind will ultimately determine the truth in no uncertain terms.

maineman
11-09-2015, 11:19 PM
Not to be a curmudgeon, but is it possible that highly placed personnel in the military have at times, abbreviated that process? I suspect that they have, not that I am saying that this was the case in this situation, but it is possible. Is it also possible that partisan media spin stories according to their particular point of view. Most certainly. I expect that the more curious journalists in society with no ax to grind will ultimately determine the truth in no uncertain terms.
The process requires congressional appointment. Highly placed personnel in the military might certainly call a particular congressman and put in a good word for the candidate, but again - and again and again and again - Carson didn't even apply and didn't even take the fucking test.

hanger4
11-10-2015, 08:09 AM
The process requires congressional appointment. Highly placed personnel in the military might certainly call a particular congressman and put in a good word for the candidate, but again - and again and again and again - Carson didn't even apply and didn't even take the fucking test.

Not all the appointees are by congressional appointment. There are a number given to the Superintendent to use at his discretion.
Not to mention these Service Connected appointees
1. President - 4002. Regular Army/Reserve Components - 340/340
3. ROTC - 80
4. Medal of Honor - Unlimited

Archer0915
11-10-2015, 08:40 AM
Not all the appointees are by congressional appointment. There are a number given to the Superintendent to use at his discretion.
Not to mention these Service Connected appointees
1. President - 4002. Regular Army/Reserve Components - 340/340
3. ROTC - 80
4. Medal of Honor - Unlimited

I supplied information on this earlier. I was eligible under the service connected, that does not mean that it would have been just given to me but it means I would have one nomination just because my father retired from the military.

maineman
11-10-2015, 09:38 AM
Not all the appointees are by congressional appointment. There are a number given to the Superintendent to use at his discretion.
Not to mention these Service Connected appointees
1. President - 4002. Regular Army/Reserve Components - 340/340
3. ROTC - 80
4. Medal of Honor - Unlimited

Carson didn't apply, didn't take the test, didn't do well on the test, didn't receive an appointment. There is no record of him doing any of those things.

If you wanna believe General Carson about this, I am sure you'll believe him about the pyramids as well. I don't and I won't.

maineman
11-10-2015, 09:42 AM
I supplied information on this earlier. I was eligible under the service connected, that does not mean that it would have been just given to me but it means I would have one nomination just because my father retired from the military.

not every child of retired military personnel gets an automatic nomination to a service academy. not every child of a retired military person can walk and chew gum simultaneously. Not every child of a retired military can figure out the square root of nine.

Mac-7
11-10-2015, 09:47 AM
This is a sign of liberal weakness

Left Wingers cant beat Carson on tje issues so they attack his character instead.

Gypsy
11-10-2015, 09:56 AM
The only three candidates running that aren't current or former politicians Carson, Fiorina and Trump. Because they have no voting record, they are vetted based on their public and private lives. Trump and Carson have chosen to tell their stories in book form. That will and should be vetted. Does the fact that he is a Christian mean that his words and claims are to be ignored? No. He chose this path.

Archer0915
11-10-2015, 10:02 AM
Carson didn't apply, didn't take the test, didn't do well on the test, didn't receive an appointment. There is no record of him doing any of those things.

If you wanna believe General Carson about this, I am sure you'll believe him about the pyramids as well. I don't and I won't.



not every child of retired military personnel gets an automatic nomination to a service academy. not every child of a retired military person can walk and chew gum simultaneously. Not every child of a retired military can figure out the square root of nine.

First there are two ways to be nominated! If you can meet the personal requirements you get an automatic nomination if you are service connected.

I think there is a disconnect here. Keep the goalposts in one place. There are two routes to westpoint. It is on the site and I linked it and quoted it.

I know we did some pming but as I said in the PMs, it was bad word choice, also offered is the operative term here.

If I say I want you on the team, come to tryouts... Did I make you an offer?

If you say no, I still made the offer.

Archer0915
11-10-2015, 10:03 AM
The only three candidates running that aren't current or former politicians Carson, Fiorina and Trump. Because they have no voting record, they are vetted based on their public and private lives. Trump and Carson have chosen to tell their stories in book form. That will and should be vetted. Does the fact that he is a Christian mean that his words and claims are to be ignored? No. He chose this path.

Good points and I think that is what many on the right miss.

Archer0915
11-10-2015, 10:16 AM
Here we will try it again:



Nominations


After determining that you meet the basic requirements to become a cadet, you should begin seeking nominations. In order to be considered for admission at West Point, you need to be nominated. There are two types of nominations, theCongressional Nomination (http://www.usma.edu/admissions/SitePages/Apply_Nominations.aspx#Cong) and the Service-Connected Nomination (http://www.usma.edu/admissions/SitePages/Apply_Nominations.aspx#Serv).
We understand this may be an unfamiliar process to you, so it is important you learn what to do and by when. Below is additional information on how to obtain a Congressional Nomination and/or a Service-Connected Nomination. Please read this carefully and contact an Admissions Officer for further questions. Forms are available to fill out by clicking on the links under the respective information sections.
Our online viewbook, or “Prospectus,” is a great source of information. You can find sample request letters and mailing addresses there. Below are some more tips that will help you get started.





Congressional Nominations - Who Can Nominate?




The Vice President
U.S. Senators
U.S. Representatives
Delegates to the House of Representatives from Washington, D.C., the Mariana Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Virgin Islands
The Governor of Puerto Rico
The Resident Commissioner of Puerto Rico
The Secretary of the Army


What to Do:

Apply for every nomination for which you are eligible. At minimum, send a request to the two U.S. senators from your state, your congressional representative in the House of Representatives and the Vice President.
Begin seeking nominations in the spring of your junior year, or as soon as you apply to West Point. Do not delay! The nomination deadlines vary, but they are deadlines, not suggested or preferred dates. If you miss a deadline, there are no exceptions. Applicants must complete the online VP nomination application during the application period of March 1 to January 31 preceding the year of entrance to the academy. Don’t take a chance on missing a deadline. Start early!
Find out whether you are eligible for nominations related to military service. For example, sons and daughters of career military personnel may be eligible for presidential nominations. Please check the online Prospectus for more information.






Return to Menu (http://www.usma.edu/admissions/SitePages/Apply_Nominations.aspx#Menu)




Service-Connected Nominations - Who Can Apply?




Sons and Daughters of "career military personnel" (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard)
The category "career military personnel" refers to members of an armed force (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard) who are on active duty (other than for training) and currently serving with at least eight years of continuous service on active duty, or who are, or who died while they were, retired with pay or granted retired or retainer pay. Also included are service members currently serving in the reserve component who are credited with at least eight continuous years of service computed under section 12733 of Title 10, United States Code. Finally, reservists who would be, or who died while they would have been, entitled to retirement pay except for not having attained 60 years of age are also included in this category.

Must furnish a statement of service, retirement orders, or casualty report
A stepparent's military service is applicable for this category only if the applicant was adopted.

Regular Army and Reserve Components (Army, Army Reserve, and Army National Guard)
To request a nomination under this category, submit your commander's endorsement (http://www.usma.edu/admissions/Shared%20Documents/Commanders_Endorsement_USMA_Form_351-12.pdf), which is included in your application. Please provide your commander with the following Commander's Guidance that can be used during his interview with you. Soldiers who are not offered an appointment to West Point are automatically considered for enrollment in the United States Military Academy Preparatory School (USMAPS).
Sons and Daughters of Deceased or Disabled Armed Forces Veterans
This category is for sons and daughters of deceased or 100% disabled Armed Forces veterans whose death or disability was determined by the Veterans' Administration to be service-connected, and for sons and daughters of military personnel or federally employed civilians who are in a missing or captured status.

Include a brief statement concerning the date, place and cause of death or the details of disability together with the claim number assigned to the veteran parent's case by the Veteran's Administration (if appropriate).

Sons and Daughters of Persons Awarded the Medal of Honor
Sons and daughters of Medal of Honor winners are eligible under this category.

Include a brief statement of the date and circumstances of the award of the Medal of Honor, if applicable.

Army Junior and Senior ROTC Programs and Honor ROTC Units of Other Services
Applicants currently enrolled in an Army Junior or Senior Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) program or an ROTC program from another branch of service that has been designated as an Honor Unit with Distinction are eligible for a nomination in this category. A request for a ROTC Nomination should be made through your Professor of Military Science or Senior Instructor who must fill out and submit a Request for ROTC Nomination (Form 5-497) (http://www.usma.edu/admissions/Shared%20Documents/ROTC_Nomination_Form_5-497.pdf) to the Director of Admissions, U.S. Military Academy.
NOTE: You must have Adobe Reader installed on your computer to view the Sample Statement below. A free version of the Adobe Reader software is available for download at the Adobe website www.Adobe.com (http://www.adobe.com/)

maineman
11-10-2015, 10:19 AM
nobody gets an appointment (scholarship) without applying for one. Carson did not apply for one. ergo, when he said he was offered a full scholarship, he was lying.

maineman
11-10-2015, 10:23 AM
First there are two ways to be nominated! If you can meet the personal requirements you get an automatic nomination if you are service connected.

I think there is a disconnect here. Keep the goalposts in one place. There are two routes to westpoint. It is on the site and I linked it and quoted it.

I know we did some pming but as I said in the PMs, it was bad word choice, also offered is the operative term here.

If I say I want you on the team, come to tryouts... Did I make you an offer?

If you say no, I still made the offer.

tryouts.... not full scholarship without trying out. can't you see the difference, really?

"Hey.... you're a smart guy.... you should put your name in the primaries to be the next republican presidential candidate"

that does not mean you were offered the nomination.

Archer0915
11-10-2015, 10:27 AM
nobody gets an appointment (scholarship) without applying for one. Carson did not apply for one. ergo, when he said he was offered a full scholarship, he was lying.

Sir that is not correct. I am not saying that you can get in without applying but do understand that an offer is just what it is, an offer. Here let me show you something.

He was made a tentative offer

tentative
1 adj Tentative agreements, plans, or arrangements are not definite or certain, but have been made as a first step. (=provisional) (Antonym: firm) Political leaders have reached a tentative agreement to hold a preparatory conference next month...
♦ tentatively adv ADV with v
The next round of talks is tentatively scheduled to begin October 21st in Washington.

2 adj If someone is tentative, they are cautious and not very confident because they are uncertain or afraid., (Antonym: confident) My first attempts at complaining were rather tentative...
♦ tentatively adv ADV with v
Perhaps, he suggested tentatively, they should send for Dr Band.

hanger4
11-10-2015, 10:28 AM
tryouts.... not full scholarship without trying out. can't you see the difference, really?

"Hey.... you're a smart guy.... you should put your name in the primaries to be the next republican presidential candidate"

that does not mean you were offered the nomination.

Bad analogy, nobodies 'offered' the nomination. Primary voters decide.

Archer0915
11-10-2015, 10:30 AM
tryouts.... not full scholarship without trying out. can't you see the difference, really?

"Hey.... you're a smart guy.... you should put your name in the primaries to be the next republican presidential candidate"

that does not mean you were offered the nomination.

I have offered the opportunity. No need to split hairs here... What would you say if someone from the military came forward and said he was made an offer and we wanted him to apply! We could have gotten him the nominations.

Mac-7
11-10-2015, 10:31 AM
nobody gets an appointment (scholarship) without applying for one. Carson did not apply for one. ergo, when he said he was offered a full scholarship, he was lying.

Carson said he was offered a scholarship


He never said he applied for one

decedent
11-10-2015, 10:32 AM
Carson didn't apply, didn't take the test, didn't do well on the test, didn't receive an appointment. There is no record of him doing any of those things.

This is all the evidence I need: “I can tell you categorically as a God-fearing Christian, it’s something that happened. It’s not something I made up.” -- Ben Carson

maineman
11-10-2015, 10:44 AM
Carson said he was offered a scholarship


He never said he applied for one

and no one gets "offered a full scholarship" to a service academy without first applying and earning the appointment. get it?

maineman
11-10-2015, 10:47 AM
I have offered the opportunity. No need to split hairs here... What would you say if someone from the military came forward and said he was made an offer and we wanted him to apply! We could have gotten him the nominations.

how can someone promise something they cannot deliver? Carson wasn't IN the military.... and in any case... HE DID NOT APPLY. No one can OFFER someone a full scholarship to West Point if that someone does not apply. period.

Again... if I said you should try out for my team, and, if you were good enough in the try out, I could offer you an athletic scholarship, first you have to TRY OUT, and then, YOU HAVE TO BE GOOD ENOUGH. Carson did not even try out.

maineman
11-10-2015, 10:48 AM
This is all the evidence I need: “I can tell you categorically as a God-fearing Christian, it’s something that happened. It’s not something I made up.” -- Ben Carson

and Joseph built the pyramids to store grain.

got it.

hanger4
11-10-2015, 11:52 AM
how can someone promise something they cannot deliver? Carson wasn't IN the military.... and in any case... HE DID NOT APPLY. No one can OFFER someone a full scholarship to West Point if that someone does not apply. period.

Again... if I said you should try out for my team, and, if you were good enough in the try out, I could offer you an athletic scholarship, first you have to TRY OUT, and then, YOU HAVE TO BE GOOD ENOUGH. Carson did not even try out.

That's funny, I know many young people offered athletic scholarships and none had to try out for the team before signing.

maineman
11-10-2015, 12:00 PM
That's funny, I know many young people offered athletic scholarships and none had to try out for the team before signing.

so... are you really saying that you believe someone actually offered an appointment to West Point to Ben Carson even though he did not apply for one?

and the tryout metaphor referred to post #230.... I shouldn't expect you to be able to follow along, I suppose.

hanger4
11-10-2015, 12:47 PM
so... are you really saying that you believe someone actually offered an appointment to West Point to Ben Carson even though he did not apply for one?

and the tryout metaphor referred to post #230.... I shouldn't expect you to be able to follow along, I suppose.

I think Carson was offered the opportunity and despite all your semantics and legalisms you have yet to prove otherwise.

maineman
11-10-2015, 12:50 PM
I think Carson was offered the opportunity and despite all your semantics and legalisms you have yet to prove otherwise.

Every teenager in America is "offered the opportunity". Very few of them apply. Very few of THEM are offered appointments (scholarships). Carson was NOT one of them.

Truth Detector
11-10-2015, 12:54 PM
did he fabricate a story about a scholarship or not? If it was a TRUE story, it was not fabricated. But then, NOBODY gets a scholarship to West Point, they get an appointment. Any talk about a scholarship IS fabricated.

Did you read his book? Or are you just glomming onto the leftist talking points you parrot?

Help me out because I have his book; what page number and passage supports this Politico talking point?

Truth Detector
11-10-2015, 12:56 PM
how can someone promise something they cannot deliver? Carson wasn't IN the military.... and in any case... HE DID NOT APPLY. No one can OFFER someone a full scholarship to West Point if that someone does not apply. period.

Again... if I said you should try out for my team, and, if you were good enough in the try out, I could offer you an athletic scholarship, first you have to TRY OUT, and then, YOU HAVE TO BE GOOD ENOUGH. Carson did not even try out.

Where did Carson claim he had applied? Where did he say he got a scholarship? Help me by stating the page and passage that supports this media narrative.

maineman
11-10-2015, 12:58 PM
Did you read his book? Or are you just glomming onto the leftist talking points you parrot?

Help me out because I have his book; what page number and passage supports this Politico talking point?

I did not read "Gifted Hands". If you did, you can verify whether or not the quote, “Later, I was offered a full scholarship to West Point,” appears therein. The presence of that quote has been reported by a wide variety of news sources. And the Carson campaign has never refuted that quote as being inaccurate. Maybe you can let us know whether they are all lying or not.

Truth Detector
11-10-2015, 01:08 PM
I did not read "Gifted Hands".

Of course you haven't; yet here you are trying to tell everyone what Carson said.


If you did, you can verify whether or not the quote, “Later, I was offered a full scholarship to West Point,” appears therein.

I have the book and read it and don't recall seeing such a passage. That's why I am asking a Liberal expert like you what page you found it on only to discover, as usual, that you haven't read the book and merely parrot the leftist BS you have gullibly been spoon fed in complete ignorance of the facts.

I have the book open right now and have been looking all morning for it.


The presence of that quote has been reported by a wide variety of news sources.

Wrong; the quote was started by a left wing blog called Politico with ZERO vetting by the leftist media who no longer is concerned with REAL journalism and now merely promotes a Liberal left agenda bereft of objectivity or facts.


And the Carson campaign has never refuted that quote as being inaccurate. Maybe you can let us know whether they are all lying or not.

Yes they have; but you're immune from facts and information that is contrary to the leftist bloviating you seem to prefer.