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Cigar
11-12-2015, 07:52 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTe-VWGWIAA2HNd.jpg

Gypsy
11-12-2015, 07:59 PM
What I don't understand is why Republicans can't or refuse to see, is what raising the minimum wage would actually do. These people would be putting almost every penny back into the economy. Think of how much more money Walmart would make vs what it would pay out. Isn't that what capitalism about?

Cigar
11-12-2015, 08:01 PM
What I don't understand is why Republicans can't or refuse to see, is what raising the minimum wage would actually do. These people would be putting almost every penny back into the economy. Think of how much more money Walmart would make vs what it would pay out. Isn't that what capitalism about?

They can NEVER show any evidence that ANY of the previous minimum wage ever damaged the economy

Gypsy
11-12-2015, 08:02 PM
They can NEVER show any evidence that ANY of the previous minimum wage ever damaged the economy

Because it doesn't exist.

Chris
11-12-2015, 08:03 PM
What I don't understand is why Republicans can't or refuse to see, is what raising the minimum wage would actually do. These people would be putting almost every penny back into the economy. Think of how much more money Walmart would make vs what it would pay out. Isn't that what capitalism about?

By the iron law of supply and demand it would reduce entry-level job opportunities.

del
11-12-2015, 08:04 PM
if they raise the fed min to $10.30, it will be worth the $1.65 i earned in 1968

we all know how bad the economy was in the 60's, right?

Chris
11-12-2015, 08:05 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTe-VWGWIAA2HNd.jpg

Never heard this argument before.

But perhaps you could explain why McDonald's CEO favors a min wage hike.

Chris
11-12-2015, 08:06 PM
if they raise the fed min to $10.30, it will be worth the $1.65 i earned in 1968

we all know how bad the economy was in the 60's, right?

Inflation brought on by incessant printing of fiat money. That old law of supply and demand again.

Peter1469
11-12-2015, 08:08 PM
What I don't understand is why Republicans can't or refuse to see, is what raising the minimum wage would actually do. These people would be putting almost every penny back into the economy. Think of how much more money Walmart would make vs what it would pay out. Isn't that what capitalism about?

It would cause a cut back in unskilled labor.

And it would increase inflation so the $15 dollars an hour will buy about what you can get today.

And most union contracts are linked the the minimum wage, so a lot of wages will increase.

And business will move overseas. Happy $15 min wage.

Peter1469
11-12-2015, 08:10 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTe-VWGWIAA2HNd.jpg

DNC talking points alert.

Cigar
11-12-2015, 08:10 PM
Never heard this argument before.

But perhaps you could explain why McDonald's CEO favors a min wage hike.

Their Oakbrook Headquarters is less than 20 minutes from where I live ... they and their neighbors don't to see this anymore. :laugh:

http://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/35366b642ba54eeda6937dfee62e8153-300x192.jpg

Cigar
11-12-2015, 08:11 PM
DNC talking points alert.

Apparently Working ... :grin: seven years running :laugh:

Tahuyaman
11-12-2015, 08:13 PM
There will be more denial of the truth on this one too.

Chris
11-12-2015, 08:16 PM
Their Oakbrook Headquarters is less than 20 minutes from where I live ... they and their neighbors don't to see this anymore. :laugh:

http://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/35366b642ba54eeda6937dfee62e8153-300x192.jpg


So you don't know why McD's CEO favors a min wage hike?

Cigar
11-12-2015, 08:16 PM
There will be more denial of the truth on this one too.

Are you taking any Bets on if the Minimum Rage is going up or not? :laugh:

Come-On, I love Conservative Gloom & Doom Predictions :grin:

Gypsy
11-12-2015, 08:17 PM
By the iron law of supply and demand it would reduce entry-level job opportunities.

http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm

Cigar
11-12-2015, 08:18 PM
So you don't know why McD's CEO favors a min wage hike?

Corporate Economics :laugh:

Chris
11-12-2015, 08:18 PM
http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm

None of those addresses my point.

Tahuyaman
11-12-2015, 08:19 PM
Are you taking any Bets on if the Minimum Rage is going up or not? :laugh:

Come-On, I love Conservative Gloom & Doom Predictions :grin:

I'm not well informed on the " minimum rage". I can't comment on that.

It does seem that it's taking less to motivate rage in people theses says though.

Chris
11-12-2015, 08:20 PM
Corporate Economics :laugh:

Yes, but specifically, McD's is losing market share to small specialty sandwich shops and knows those shops would be harder pressed to pay higher wages. Min wage is, in this respect, just another example of crony capitalism.

Tahuyaman
11-12-2015, 08:21 PM
http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm


Did you believe what a government agency said about an issue during the Bush years?

Gypsy
11-12-2015, 08:22 PM
None of those address my point.

Wages up and no significant job losses. I'm not arguing the point, the facts are there regardless if they are accepted or not.

Peter1469
11-12-2015, 08:22 PM
The unskilled are going to protest themselves out of jobs.

Robots can more than fill the ranks of the unskilled.

Tahuyaman
11-12-2015, 08:23 PM
Yes, but specifically, McD's is losing market share to small specialty sandwich shops and knows those shops would be harder pressed to pay higher wages. Min wage is, in this respect, just another example of crony capitalism.

there is merit to the idea that the big businesses can afford to pay a higher minimum wage, thus driving the small mom and pop places out of business. It's happening here in Seattle.

Gypsy
11-12-2015, 08:23 PM
Did you believe what a government agency said about an issue during the Bush years?

Depended on the department. I'm not a partisan hack.

Tahuyaman
11-12-2015, 08:26 PM
Depended on the department. I'm not a partisan hack.


So, which departments under our current leadership are credible and which ones aren't?

Chris
11-12-2015, 08:26 PM
Wages up and no significant job losses. I'm not arguing the point, the facts are there regardless if they are accepted or not.

That wasn't my point though. Not sure why but many seem to get the point wrong. It's not a matter of losing existing jobs but of creating new entry-level opportunities.



Another reason McD's favors hiking the min wage, beside crony capitalistic competition with small sandwich shops, is because McD's is working on replacing entry-level jobs with automation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsSff3x07Sc

Matty
11-12-2015, 08:32 PM
Because it doesn't exist.



You just expect the employers to eat the cost? Is that what you think?

Carlsen
11-12-2015, 08:35 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTe-VWGWIAA2HNd.jpg


how much do this guy pay for hamburger

http://adscam.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341bfa1853ef01bb0887c7b9970d-400wi


.

zelmo1234
11-12-2015, 08:36 PM
What I don't understand is why Republicans can't or refuse to see, is what raising the minimum wage would actually do. These people would be putting almost every penny back into the economy. Think of how much more money Walmart would make vs what it would pay out. Isn't that what capitalism about?

You do understand that the big push for the 15 dollar and hour minimum is about Unions right?

You see in Jan of 2017 the Unions have to start paying the 40% luxury tax on their gold plated insurance packages. but if they can get the minimum raised up, it will cover the insurance increase

Now think of the family that has parents making `16 dollars an hour? how much will there wages go up? The truth is they won't go up but prices will, so they effectively get a pay cut.

But here is what the CBO estimates

http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2014-02-18/the-cbo-foresees-lost-jobs-from-a-higher-minimum-wage
half a million jobs with a 10.10 minimum wage.

Matty
11-12-2015, 08:39 PM
Depended on the department. I'm not a partisan hack.


As you know Seattle went to the 15.00 min. Wage. The employees asked for part time so they could continue to qualify for handouts. Is that good or bad in your mind?

Tahuyaman
11-12-2015, 08:48 PM
As you know Seattle went to the 15.00 min. Wage. The employees asked for part time so they could continue to qualify for handouts. Is that good or bad in your mind?

The $15.00 minimum wage is being phased in. However, many smaller family owned restaurants have already closed their doors. That 15.00 an hour minimum wage law may be repealed before it is all said and done. Time will tell.

Most people who work in the industry oppose the increase in the minimum wage. The new laws about how their tips are handled will actually result in a decrease in their take home pay.

The more the left sticks their nose into things believing they are helping the working class, the more they hurt them.

Mini Me
11-12-2015, 10:25 PM
The $15.00 minimum wage is being phased in. However, many smaller family owned restaurants have already closed their doors. That 15.00 an hour minimum wage law may be repealed before it is all said and done. Time will tell.

Most people who work in the industry oppose the increase in the minimum wage. The new laws about how their tips are handled will actually result in a decrease in their take home pay.

The more the left sticks their nose into things believing they are helping the working class, the more they hurt them.

Yeah, well just look at the alternative!

More jobs an factories going overseas, machine replacing workers, more declining real wages, union busting, the TPP. When we value corporate interests over workers, this is what happens!

jimmyz
11-12-2015, 10:29 PM
How much does a machine that makes burgers and fries demand to be paid? Talk about outsourcing your job. Keep it up.

Cigar
11-12-2015, 10:32 PM
How much does a machine that makes burgers and fries demand to be paid? Talk about outsourcing your job. Keep it up.

... and what Welder makes more than a Philosophy Major :smiley_ROFLMAO:

Chris
11-12-2015, 10:32 PM
What I don't understand is why Republicans can't or refuse to see, is what raising the minimum wage would actually do. These people would be putting almost every penny back into the economy. Think of how much more money Walmart would make vs what it would pay out. Isn't that what capitalism about?

This is true. But my theory on it goes like this. Republicans favor trickle-down policies that really just go to the rich. Now on face value it sounds well-intentioned that Democrats favor trickle-up policies like min wage hikes but as you say this would go right back into the economy, to purchase mostly necessities, from the same rich that would have gotten it trickle-down. That's what crony capitalism is about. And it's gutting the middle class responsible more than other for the rise in American prosperity now falling.

Tahuyaman
11-12-2015, 10:35 PM
The $15.00 minimum wage is being phased in. However, many smaller family owned restaurants have already closed their doors. That 15.00 an hour minimum wage law may be repealed before it is all said and done. Time will tell.

Most people who work in the industry oppose the increase in the minimum wage. The new laws about how their tips are handled will actually result in a decrease in their take home pay.

The more the left sticks their nose into things believing they are helping the working class, the more they hurt them.


Yeah, well just look at the alternative!

More jobs an factories going overseas, machine replacing workers, more declining real wages, union busting, the TPP. When we value corporate interests over workers, this is what happens!

how is that relevant to smaller family owned restaurants being forced out of business?

jimmyz
11-12-2015, 10:36 PM
... and what Welder makes more than a Philosophy Major :smiley_ROFLMAO:

GM's and Toyota's welders make a lot less. In fact they make electricity rates and nothing else. But they're ignit machines so they don't bitch.

Chris
11-12-2015, 10:38 PM
Yeah, well just look at the alternative!

More jobs an factories going overseas, machine replacing workers, more declining real wages, union busting, the TPP. When we value corporate interests over workers, this is what happens!

Perhaps if the US was a more business-friendly nation those companies and jobs would stay here, wouldn't be automated, or unionized--the unions like min wage hikes because it protects the union worker from entry-level competition. TTP is just more government-managed trade like NAFTA, CAFTA, SHAFTA. :D

Dr. Who
11-12-2015, 11:01 PM
By the iron law of supply and demand it would reduce entry-level job opportunities.
Apparently that isn't a fast rule. People work at Mickey D's in France for more money and yet they sell the sandwich for less than in America. How does that happen? Might it be that we are applying an unrealistic profit expectation which requires that people work at subsistence wages and might it be that if those who make those subsistence wages have little to spend in the economy beyond basic food and rent, that the economy itself will flounder? America is not a rural economy, it is primarily an urban economy that requires people to have surplus income to support industries that are predicated on discretionary spending. Take that away, and you have a decline in the service industry, the retail industry, entertainment industry, construction industry and ultimately the financial industry.

Tahuyaman
11-12-2015, 11:51 PM
Perhaps if the US was a more business-friendly nation those companies and jobs would stay here, wouldn't be automated, or unionized--the unions like min wage hikes because it protects the union worker from entry-level competition. TTP is just more government-managed trade like NAFTA, CAFTA, SHAFTA. :D


Solid points.

zelmo1234
11-13-2015, 06:34 AM
... and what Welder makes more than a Philosophy Major :smiley_ROFLMAO:

all of them

zelmo1234
11-13-2015, 06:37 AM
how is that relevant to smaller family owned restaurants being forced out of business?
I posted several times that franchise eateries actually operate at a loss under the 15 dollars an hour. It is even harder for someone that does not have the buying power of a huge corporation behind them.

So when your meal is 3 dollars higher than the same meal just a few miles away? you are going to go out of business.

Adelaide
11-13-2015, 07:06 AM
Raising the minimum wage too much would be detrimental to the overall workforce and goods/services would begin to cost more. I support raising it somewhat, but certainly not to $15/hour or something crazy. While ideally that would be nice, it's practically not feasible.

Mac-7
11-13-2015, 07:20 AM
There is a direct connection between the minimum wage and legal and illegal immigration.

Having millions of low education workers from mexico drives down wages for low education Americans.

Tahuyaman
11-13-2015, 10:55 AM
I posted several times that franchise eateries actually operate at a loss under the 15 dollars an hour. It is even harder for someone that does not have the buying power of a huge corporation behind them.

So when your meal is 3 dollars higher than the same meal just a few miles away? you are going to go out of business.

outsourcing industry has nothing tomdo,with the discussion, that's all I'm saying.

You you will find that the people,who work in the restaurant business oppose the $15.00 an hour minimum wage once they find out how the law changes the way their tips are handled. They essentially now will get a cut in take home pay.

Chris
11-13-2015, 11:03 AM
There is a direct connection between the minimum wage and legal and illegal immigration.

Having millions of low education workers from mexico drives down wages for low education Americans.

So your anti-market, big government progressive protectionist solution is to close the boarder and keep competition out?

Mac-7
11-13-2015, 11:28 AM
So your anti-market, big government progressive protectionist solution is to close the boarder and keep competition out?

I support protection for American workers and American manufacturing.

Flooding the country with tens of millions of desperate people from poor countries hurts American workers and leads the leftwing to demand higher minimum wages mandated by big government.

Chris
11-13-2015, 11:46 AM
I support protection for American workers and American manufacturing.

Flooding the country with tens of millions of desperate people from poor countries hurts American workers and leads the leftwing to demand higher minimum wages mandated by big government.

Neocons are progressive domestically.

Such progressive policies as you advocate will have the same effect of raising min wages. Simple law of supply and demand, reduce supply, demand increases.

Conservatives are suppose to prudently consider unintended consequences.