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View Full Version : Why are Americans so religious and why does it have such an impact on their politics?



Awryly
08-28-2012, 12:13 AM
Here are the stats:


United States Protestant 51.3%, Roman Catholic 23.9%, Mormon 1.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Jewish 1.7%, Buddhist 0.7%, Muslim 0.6%, other or unspecified 2.5%, unaffiliated 12.1%, none 4%

Here are the stats from another equally diverse country:


New Zealand Anglican 13.8%, Roman Catholic 12.6%, Presbyterian, Congregational, and Reformed 10%, Christian (no denomination specified) 4.6%, Methodist 3%, Pentecostal 2%, Baptist 1.4%, other Christian 3.8%, Maori Christian 1.6%, Hindu 1.6%, Buddhist 1.3%, other religions 2.2%, none 32.2%, other or unidentified 9.9%

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/rel_rel-religion-religions

Note the "nones". 4% in the US, 32.2% in NZ.

Why is that? Has God failed in New Zealand?

roadmaster
08-28-2012, 12:32 AM
Why are you so obsessed with religion?

Awryly
08-28-2012, 01:39 AM
Why are you so obsessed with religion?

I'm an atheist. It subverts my faith.

wingrider
08-28-2012, 02:01 AM
why does someone who doesn't belive in God spend so much time discussing Him.. ??? wierd

MMC
08-28-2012, 02:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQEQaFzVQIM

Well like R.L. Ermey says at the End of the Video.....

Quote: There is no such thing as an Atheist in a Combat Situation. Now we don't have a Chaplain here. But I don't see that as any major set back. You can rest Assured. YOU WILL NOT go into that bag.....UNTIL, I have said a few appropriate words over you! End Quote! :wink:

Btw.....this movie was based on a True Story.

Awryly
08-28-2012, 02:39 AM
why does someone who doesn't belive in God spend so much time discussing Him.. ??? wierd

Um...what time?

I thought I was discussing why he is an American idol.

roadmaster
08-28-2012, 02:45 AM
why does someone who doesn't belive in God spend so much time discussing Him.. ??? wierd

Who knows, maybe he should discus this with errin. He may be able to help. Maybe Islam is more his style. I don't want or will consider discussing religions with Awrley. He seems to be obsessive with religions. And they say we try to ram it down. If you don't believe stop asking.

Chris
08-28-2012, 06:55 AM
I'm an atheist. It subverts my faith.

Atheism, a-theism, "a" meaning without, thus without faith. You're not an atheist but an anti-theist.

Mainecoons
08-28-2012, 07:39 AM
Atheists have a faith just like theists do. The formers' faith is that there is no God. The latter believe the opposite. Neither can prove it one way or the other.

That's why they call it "faith" or "belief."

Dooh!

Venus
08-28-2012, 07:48 AM
exactly, same coin different sides

birddog
08-28-2012, 08:01 AM
An athiest says, "I Thank God Every Day That I'm An Athiest!" :wink:

Venus
08-28-2012, 08:07 AM
Here are the stats:



Here are the stats from another equally diverse country:



http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/rel_rel-religion-religions

Note the "nones". 4% in the US, 32.2% in NZ.

Why is that? Has God failed in New Zealand?


For one thing, I don't know how you got religion and politics together out of the linked graph. All I got was a religious break down by countries.

With that said.

One of the founding principles of this nation is religious freedom. Freedom to believe or not to believe.

GrumpyDog
08-28-2012, 11:53 AM
Here are the stats:



Here are the stats from another equally diverse country:



http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/rel_rel-religion-religions

Note the "nones". 4% in the US, 32.2% in NZ.

Why is that? Has God failed in New Zealand?

The best choice, is to go with the 2.5% "unspecified". Leaves you more options, in case one of the gods gets conquered by one of the other gods. The other option, is the Sammy Davis Jr. option, and wear a ring for each god. Since I cannot afford to wear rings, I go with the poor mans option.

It works with the New Testament (Matthew) too. "Those who are not against me, are for me". So, remaining unsure, thus not against (because that requires certainty), I therefore can still be accepted, if it turns out that the Christian god is the one.

Likewise, the Muslim Koran has passages which allow for the uncertain to be tolerated, as long as they do not fight in combat against the Muslim. Since I am a non violent person, and only resort to self defense if no other option is available, then no threat to Muslims either, unless they insist that my head be removed.

Unspecified category works with Buddists also, since that is basically almost the core of their religion. And having a bald head already by choice, and often wearing reading glasses, and being liberal, they will likely assume that I am a friend of the Dalai Lama, or follow Gandhi.

In answer to question why one of the Gods has failed New Zealand, I have no good answer, except possibly NZ was an accidental volcanic eruption, or that the various Gods have decided that NZ is not worth arguing over.

Awryly
08-28-2012, 08:17 PM
Atheism, a-theism, "a" meaning without, thus without faith. You're not an atheist but an anti-theist.

I bow to your superior knowledge of what I am.

But am drawn to enlighten you.

I am an atheist because I do not not believe in spaghetti monsters and am anti-theist because of the unending spectacle theists make of themselves in pursuit of their fantasies.

This, as we well know, includes trying to annihilate other theists whose particular fantasies are at odds with theirs.

Captain Obvious
08-28-2012, 08:29 PM
Another "look at me, I'm an atheist".

yay

Goldie Locks
08-28-2012, 09:09 PM
Funny, how you can always pick out the atheists and the religious, especially Christians. It is so easy.

Goldie Locks
08-28-2012, 09:10 PM
There all atheists until they see a semi coming at them at 85 mph or the plane is going down...LOL

Awryly
08-28-2012, 09:17 PM
There all atheists until they see a semi coming at them at 85 mph or the plane is going down...LOL

Disasters are good for a belief in someone who seems not to mind regular and sustained disasters?

That sounds a bit like the Wall St types who reassure you your money is safe.

Goldie Locks
08-28-2012, 09:20 PM
Disasters are good for a belief in someone who seems not to mind regular and sustained disasters?

That sounds a bit like the Wall St types who reassure you your money is safe.

Guess you've never seen your life flash before your eyes yet and hopefully you won't.

Awryly
08-28-2012, 09:26 PM
For one thing, I don't know how you got religion and politics together out of the linked graph. All I got was a religious break down by countries.

With that said.

One of the founding principles of this nation is religious freedom. Freedom to believe or not to believe.

What politics? You found politics in a breakdown of religious lunacy?

Tell me where.

I haven't yet made the case about how it screws up your politics.

Awryly
08-28-2012, 09:27 PM
Guess you've never seen your life flash before your eyes yet and hopefully you won't.

Is that the most powerful argument you have for religion?

Fear?

Awryly
08-28-2012, 09:28 PM
Is that the most powerful argument you have for religion?

Abject fear?

GrumpyDog
08-28-2012, 10:02 PM
What politics? You found politics in a breakdown of religious lunacy?

Tell me where.

I haven't yet made the case about how it screws up your politics.


We HAD a unifying religion that united us all for a little while, called Capitalism, but as usual with religions that one became corrupted too.

Awryly
08-28-2012, 10:11 PM
We HAD a unifying religion that united us all for a little while, called Capitalism, but as usual with religions that one became corrupted too.

Indeed. It worshipped Mammon.

Still does, I'm reliably informed.

There are just so many gods to choose from.

GrumpyDog
08-28-2012, 10:17 PM
Indeed. It worshipped Mammon.

Still does, I'm reliably informed.

There are just so many gods to choose from.

Which is why there is a Republican Convention. The right god must be chosen, despite vagina dressed deviant blasphemers trying to disrupt the process.

Awryly
08-29-2012, 02:01 AM
Which is why there is a Republican Convention. The right god must be chosen, despite vagina dressed deviant blasphemers trying to disrupt the process.

I am sure the convention will be orgasmic beyond expectations.

RollingWave
08-29-2012, 04:56 AM
From a historical prospective, mostly concerning Europe versus America, the main thing is that the religious wars in the 17th century combined with the series of events that occured afterwards began to turn people away from religion in general, as it had become just a part of the greater (and ugly) political struggle. (the one that really ultimatedly was only somewhat settled after WW2)

meanwhile, the USA has never had to deal with such problems, religion was never the driving factor for the US to go into war, while the Churches never had serious direct intervention on political matters. (remember the unfounded fears of how Kennedy would let the Pope rule America? ). this made religion.... less tainted in the US so to speak.

Similarly, in a lot of East Asian countries this is true as well, religion and the state were never really one to begin with, thus religion as a concept is not nearly as despised. and few people claim to be anti-thesis, though some may be athesis in the sense that they don't follow any particuarly religion strongly (it is not uncommon for folks in taiwan to dabble in multiple religion practice on a common basis.)

(though that also means we don't really care about religion anyway. no one gives a damn on if a candidate goes to church , even less on WHAT church he goes tol.)

Venus
08-29-2012, 07:44 AM
What politics? You found politics in a breakdown of religious lunacy?

Tell me where.

I haven't yet made the case about how it screws up your politics.



I was going by the title of your thread and your linked graph. As I pointed out, I didn't find anything.

Why are Americans so religious and why does it have such an impact on their politics? (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/5369-Why-are-Americans-so-religious-and-why-does-it-have-such-an-impact-on-their-politics/page2)


Yet made the case? Why is that? Don't you think your thread would progress further if you did?

It's your premise you should be one to back it up.

Chris
08-29-2012, 08:22 AM
I bow to your superior knowledge of what I am.

But am drawn to enlighten you.

I am an atheist because I do not not believe in spaghetti monsters and am anti-theist because of the unending spectacle theists make of themselves in pursuit of their fantasies.

This, as we well know, includes trying to annihilate other theists whose particular fantasies are at odds with theirs.

It's not a matter of knowledge per se but definition and what you said. By definition atheism means without theism, lacking faith. You announced you have faith. And your general negativity about other people's faith make's you an antitheist. If the shoe fits, wear it, don't blame me.



This, as we well know, includes trying to annihilate other theists whose particular fantasies are at odds with theirs.

I've seen you try to do that, but not very successfully. Here, let's try. Do you have an argument against the existence of God? That would annihilate anyone's faith! So, please, present it.

Chris
08-29-2012, 08:26 AM
We HAD a unifying religion that united us all for a little while, called Capitalism, but as usual with religions that one became corrupted too.

Total misunderstanding of what capitalism is based on Marx. Socialism, now there's a religion!

Chris
08-29-2012, 08:32 AM
From a historical prospective, mostly concerning Europe versus America, the main thing is that the religious wars in the 17th century combined with the series of events that occured afterwards began to turn people away from religion in general, as it had become just a part of the greater (and ugly) political struggle. (the one that really ultimatedly was only somewhat settled after WW2)

meanwhile, the USA has never had to deal with such problems, religion was never the driving factor for the US to go into war, while the Churches never had serious direct intervention on political matters. (remember the unfounded fears of how Kennedy would let the Pope rule America? ). this made religion.... less tainted in the US so to speak.

Similarly, in a lot of East Asian countries this is true as well, religion and the state were never really one to begin with, thus religion as a concept is not nearly as despised. and few people claim to be anti-thesis, though some may be athesis in the sense that they don't follow any particuarly religion strongly (it is not uncommon for folks in taiwan to dabble in multiple religion practice on a common basis.)

(though that also means we don't really care about religion anyway. no one gives a damn on if a candidate goes to church , even less on WHAT church he goes tol.)

Religious wars probably wouldn't have happened if it weren't for governments adopting and enforcing state religions. It was reciprocated with the divine right of kings. The US has for the most part kept government out of religion.

Nothwithstanding the general progress made within the two last centuries in favour of this branch of liberty, & the full establishment of it, in some parts of our Country, there remains in others a strong bias towards the old error, that without some sort of alliance or coalition between Gov' & Religion neither can be duly supported: Such indeed is the tendency to such a coalition, and such its corrupting influence on both the parties, that the danger cannot be too carefully guarded agst.. And in a Gov' of opinion, like ours, the only effectual guard must be found in the soundness and stability of the general opinion on the subject. Every new & successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance. And I have no doubt that every new example, will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Gov will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.
Well, he got the religion part right, probably rolling over in his grave about the corrupt crony capitalistic government we now have!

GrumpyDog
08-29-2012, 01:50 PM
Total misunderstanding of what capitalism is based on Marx. Socialism, now there's a religion!

So therefore, you disagree that Capitalism has been corrupted?

Peter1469
08-29-2012, 01:57 PM
So therefore, you disagree that Capitalism has been corrupted?

Chris would tell you we don't have capitalism; but rather crony capitalism, where corporations have an undue influence over policy.

Chris
08-29-2012, 02:10 PM
So therefore, you disagree that Capitalism has been corrupted?

No, what I said was your depiction of capitalism, which is Marxist, misunderstands it.

Let's compare. Socialism is about centrally planning an economy. Capitalism, the free market, is instead the social institution that emerges naturally from the interaction of man exchanging goods and services. Now, to your question, yes, it, capitalism, the free market, can be corrupted, and that is by trying to manage it through central planning. Central planning is what leads to corruption.

What Peter says is true too. We in the US don't have a socialist government (yet) but a social democracy where capitalism is left fairly free to generate wealth but managed to redistribute through special favors like social and corporate welfare, in sum crony capitalism.

Awryly
08-29-2012, 07:34 PM
From a historical prospective, mostly concerning Europe versus America, the main thing is that the religious wars in the 17th century combined with the series of events that occured afterwards began to turn people away from religion in general, as it had become just a part of the greater (and ugly) political struggle. (the one that really ultimatedly was only somewhat settled after WW2)

meanwhile, the USA has never had to deal with such problems, religion was never the driving factor for the US to go into war, while the Churches never had serious direct intervention on political matters. (remember the unfounded fears of how Kennedy would let the Pope rule America? ). this made religion.... less tainted in the US so to speak.

Similarly, in a lot of East Asian countries this is true as well, religion and the state were never really one to begin with, thus religion as a concept is not nearly as despised. and few people claim to be anti-thesis, though some may be athesis in the sense that they don't follow any particuarly religion strongly (it is not uncommon for folks in taiwan to dabble in multiple religion practice on a common basis.)

(though that also means we don't really care about religion anyway. no one gives a damn on if a candidate goes to church , even less on WHAT church he goes tol.)

You are correct in saying that religion did not lead to internal war in the US as it did in Europe. But there was a difference in timing, with the Enlightenment intervening inbetween.

But religion in the US has promoted vast cultural conflict. It is one of the main forces even today that polarises American society. And the effect on American politics of religious fundamentalists is unmistakable.

In NZ, we really don't care whether people are religious or what they believe in the privacy of their own bedrooms.

We treat it as just another choice not to be inflicted on others - like choosing an ice-cream.

Chris
08-29-2012, 07:44 PM
New Zealanders aren't religious, like choosing ice cream?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81bsJqehcMs

Awryly
08-29-2012, 07:47 PM
New Zealanders aren't religious, like choosing ice cream?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81bsJqehcMs

They were just burying our soldiers killed in your absurd war in Afghanistan.

It's polite in such circumstances, even here, to hold a funeral.

Chris
08-29-2012, 07:54 PM
I know what they're doing awryly. The title of the video tells us that.

Awryly
08-29-2012, 07:56 PM
I know what they're doing awryly. The title of the video tells us that.

So your point was what?

Conley
08-29-2012, 07:59 PM
Hiya Aw,

Nice showing against those Wallabies the other night. :wink:

I'm curious about something...I just saw over on BBC that there's a lot of controversy over gay marriage in New Zealand. It seems many have been pushing for it for years, and even though it has passed the first step now after a long battle seems there are still many against it. You say people there aren't very religious and don't care what goes on in the bedroom, so I'm wondering what the issue is? It seems like religion is the biggest barrier to allowing gay marriage here in the States. I'm of the opinion that churches should be able to do what they want in that regard and government should butt out (no pun intended! :grin:)

GrumpyDog
08-29-2012, 08:35 PM
Chris would tell you we don't have capitalism; but rather crony capitalism, where corporations have an undue influence over policy.

Agree with you there. So you must agree that Supreme Court made a terrible decision regarding Corporations bribing Congressmen, as a right of free speech issue?

Awryly
08-29-2012, 08:39 PM
Hiya Aw,

Nice showing against those Wallabies the other night. :wink:

I'm curious about something...I just saw over on BBC that there's a lot of controversy over gay marriage in New Zealand. It seems many have been pushing for it for years, and even though it has passed the first step now after a long battle seems there are still many against it. You say people there aren't very religious and don't care what goes on in the bedroom, so I'm wondering what the issue is? It seems like religion is the biggest barrier to allowing gay marriage here in the States. I'm of the opinion that churches should be able to do what they want in that regard and government should butt out (no pun intended! :grin:)

Even a New Zealand coach could not pull a performance out of those Wallabies. They would be better sticking to the fairy game they call Aussie Rules.

As for gay marriage. We have had legal civil unions for over a decade. I'm not sure what drove the opposition against gay marriage itself but whatever it was has lost any traction. Most members of parliament favour it.

But,of course, there are wacky Christians who don't. Fortunately, there are few of them and their wackiness is in clear view.

GrumpyDog
08-29-2012, 08:52 PM
No, what I said was your depiction of capitalism, which is Marxist, misunderstands it.

Let's compare. Socialism is about centrally planning an economy. Capitalism, the free market, is instead the social institution that emerges naturally from the interaction of man exchanging goods and services. Now, to your question, yes, it, capitalism, the free market, can be corrupted, and that is by trying to manage it through central planning. Central planning is what leads to corruption.

What Peter says is true too. We in the US don't have a socialist government (yet) but a social democracy where capitalism is left fairly free to generate wealth but managed to redistribute through special favors like social and corporate welfare, in sum crony capitalism.

So you would agree, that we need a regulated market, one which is designed to prevent crony capitalism?

Would you agree that if 10% of the US population propers from having 70-80% of GDP, that they should in turn be responsible for funding 70-80% of the yearly Federal Budget?

Conley
08-29-2012, 09:01 PM
Even a New Zealand coach could not pull a performance out of those Wallabies. They would be better sticking to the fairy game they call Aussie Rules.

As for gay marriage. We have had legal civil unions for over a decade. I'm not sure what drove the opposition against gay marriage itself but whatever it was has lost any traction. Most members of parliament favour it.

But,of course, there are wacky Christians who don't. Fortunately, there are few of them and their wackiness is in clear view.

Thanks for the explanation. Before hearing this story I would have assumed it was already legal there. We've had states here approve it.

Awryly
08-29-2012, 09:07 PM
Thanks for the explanation. Before hearing this story I would have assumed it was already legal there. We've had states here approve it.


Yeah, I'm surprised it is taking so long too. But it doesn't mean much. Legal property is governed by civil union law that has been in place since at least 2000. The only substantive gain from gay marriage is that gays can legally adopt kids.

Peter1469
08-29-2012, 09:18 PM
Agree with you there. So you must agree that Supreme Court made a terrible decision regarding Corporations bribing Congressmen, as a right of free speech issue?

Absolutely. I would outlaw the concept of corporate person-hood. Citizens United was one of the worst decisions SCOTUS came out with in decades.

GrumpyDog
08-29-2012, 09:39 PM
Absolutely. I would outlaw the concept of corporate person-hood. Citizens United was one of the worst decisions SCOTUS came out with in decades.

FINALLY! COMMON GROUND! Now who do we vote for?, because neither Romney nor Obama is going to do anything about this obvious problem.

Awryly
08-29-2012, 09:48 PM
FINALLY! COMMON GROUND! Now who do we vote for?, because neither Romney nor Obama is going to do anything about this obvious problem.

Until you sort out the campaign capture by corporates, your democracy is a lost cause.

If you do manage to sort it out, you will see the emergence of new parties that represent the real interests of all Americans.

I notice that 40% are now independents who have to make loopy voting decisions because they have nothing else to vote for.

Your system has historically relied on consensus-reaching that has clearly failed. Thanks to the GOP.

It is time to move past them. I would expect the GOP to become a minor party under any sensible democratic framework.

GrumpyDog
08-29-2012, 10:06 PM
Until you sort out the campaign capture by corporates, your democracy is a lost cause.

If you do manage to sort it out, you will see the emergence of new parties that represent the real interests of all Americans.

I notice that 40% are now independents who have to make loopy voting decisions because they have nothing else to vote for.

Your system has historically relied on consensus-reaching that has clearly failed. Thanks to the GOP.

It is time to move past them. I would expect the GOP to become a minor party under any sensible democratic framework.

Do not worry, whatever sorting out we do, will not stop the daily USA soap opera you obviously admire, and are addicted to.

Frogger
08-29-2012, 10:08 PM
Rather than asking why so many Americans are religious why not ask why so few people in other Western nations are religious.

Awryly
08-29-2012, 10:22 PM
Rather than asking why so many Americans are religious why not ask why so few people in other Western nations are religious.

Light...seen?

Awryly
08-29-2012, 10:27 PM
Do not worry, whatever sorting out we do, will not stop the daily USA soap opera you obviously admire, and are addicted to.


Of course. The entertainment will proceed yet apace.

CIA conspiracies, Hollywood effluent (which relies on CIA cock-ups and failed wars to keep it in business), attempts to suppress free speech on the internet, FBI agents thrilling us with their dismal attempts to extradite Kim Dotcom from New Zealand, thwarted desire to put Julian Assange to death.

With you I have no need to visit Disneyland.

Peter1469
08-30-2012, 06:06 PM
FINALLY! COMMON GROUND! Now who do we vote for?, because neither Romney nor Obama is going to do anything about this obvious problem.

Ron Paul was the only one advocating that..... And me of course.

Chris
08-30-2012, 06:13 PM
So you would agree, that we need a regulated market, one which is designed to prevent crony capitalism?

Would you agree that if 10% of the US population propers from having 70-80% of GDP, that they should in turn be responsible for funding 70-80% of the yearly Federal Budget?

What we need do is regulate government to prevent it's corruptions of power. Power corrupts, said Lord Acton, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Or as Madison but it in Federalist 51:
If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.



Would you agree that if 10% of the US population propers from having 70-80% of GDP, that they should in turn be responsible for funding 70-80% of the yearly Federal Budget?

You're another one economist Thomas Sowell would point out suffers from believing statistical groups are real.

Chris
08-30-2012, 06:14 PM
Absolutely. I would outlaw the concept of corporate person-hood. Citizens United was one of the worst decisions SCOTUS came out with in decades.

Another government-created problem.

Awryly
08-30-2012, 07:04 PM
Atheists have a faith just like theists do. The formers' faith is that there is no God. The latter believe the opposite. Neither can prove it one way or the other.

That's why they call it "faith" or "belief."


Dooh!


When there no evidence for the proposition that there is some celestial object that will transport you to heavenly bliss, most people with a scientific nerve in their body will say "I wonder if it's a scam?"

Chris
08-30-2012, 07:06 PM
When there no evidence for the proposition that there is some celestial object that will transport you to heavenly bliss, most people with a scientific nerve in their body will say "I wonder if it's a scam?"

Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.

Your position is very unscientific and irrational.

Captain Obvious
08-30-2012, 07:13 PM
Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.

Your position is very unscientific and irrational.

Couple hundred years ago, everyone except for an insightful few thought the world was flat.

We also now think the universe is infinite, although we cannot prove it.

GrumpyDog
08-30-2012, 07:18 PM
Light...seen?



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KW3S0od5s5U/SqEoEqtJgNI/AAAAAAAAAP4/1wJsUXGFgeA/s200/Kermit+lightbulb.jpg

Chris
08-30-2012, 07:20 PM
Couple hundred years ago, everyone except for an insightful few thought the world was flat.

We also now think the universe is infinite, although we cannot prove it.

According to Stephen Hawking, A Brief History of Time and elsewhere, the universe is finite but unbounded since if you travel far enough in the same direction you'll end up where you started.

Now that is supported by what we know about the universe and agrees with other accepted laws of science and so far has not been falsified.

But there is no proof of it, science doesn't prove things.

Captain Obvious
08-30-2012, 07:24 PM
Hawking also lost a bet on Higgs' theory of mass.

It's all theory until practically proven.

Chris
08-30-2012, 07:32 PM
Hawking also lost a bet on Higgs' theory of mass.

It's all theory until practically proven.

Best $100 he ever lost, theoretically.

Frogger
08-30-2012, 07:51 PM
I bow to your superior knowledge of what I am.

But am drawn to enlighten you.

I am an atheist because I do not not believe in spaghetti monsters and am anti-theist because of the unending spectacle theists make of themselves in pursuit of their fantasies.

This, as we well know, includes trying to annihilate other theists whose particular fantasies are at odds with theirs.

Yet three of the greatest mass murderers of all time were atheists; Josef Stalin, Mao Tse Dung and Pol Pot.

Frogger
08-30-2012, 08:01 PM
Yeah, I'm surprised it is taking so long too. But it doesn't mean much. Legal property is governed by civil union law that has been in place since at least 2000. The only substantive gain from gay marriage is that gays can legally adopt kids.

Pretty backward of you Kiwis. Gays can legally adopt here in The States. Looks like New Zealanders are just a bunch of bigots.

Awryly
08-30-2012, 08:06 PM
Yet three of the greatest mass murderers of all time were atheists; Josef Stalin, Mao Tse Dung and Pol Pot.

Which just says that the Crusaders failed relatively-speaking because they did not have helicopter gunships.

Awryly
08-30-2012, 08:08 PM
Pretty backward of you Kiwis. Gays can legally adopt here in The States. Looks like New Zealanders are just a bunch of bigots.

Huh? Backward?

You have a "democracy" that works like a cuckoo clock.

Captain Obvious
08-30-2012, 08:10 PM
Pretty backward of you Kiwis. Gays can legally adopt here in The States. Looks like New Zealanders are just a bunch of bigots.

Tony Garea is angry with you.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Tony_Garea_Oct_07.jpg/220px-Tony_Garea_Oct_07.jpg

Chris
08-30-2012, 08:58 PM
Huh? Backward?

You have a "democracy" that works like a cuckoo clock.

We have a republic, or used to. Democracy is the worst form of government. ...OK, maybe social democracy is worse.

Awryly
08-30-2012, 09:41 PM
We have a republic, or used to. Democracy is the worst form of government. ...OK, maybe social democracy is worse.

The Athenians had a republic that worked as a democracy.

Are you sure you have your ducks in a row?

GrumpyDog
08-31-2012, 01:32 AM
Liberal democracy is a form of government (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Form_of_government) in which representative democracy (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Representative_democracy) operates under the principles of liberalism (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Liberalism). It is characterized by fair, free, and competitive elections (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Elections) between multiple distinct (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Pluralism_(political_philosophy)) political parties (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Political_parties), a separation of powers (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Separation_of_powers) into different branches of government (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Branches_of_government), the rule of law (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Rule_of_law) in everyday life as part of an open society (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Open_society), and the protection of human rights (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Human_rights) and civil liberties (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Civil_liberties) for all persons. To define the system in practice, liberal democracies often draw upon a constitution (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Constitution), either formally written or uncodified (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Uncodified_constitution), to delineate the powers of government and enshrine the social contract (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Social_contract). After a period of sustained expansion throughout the 20th century, liberal democracy became the predominant political system on Earth (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Earth).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

Sounds good to me. When are we going to try it in USA?

Awryly
08-31-2012, 01:41 AM
Liberal democracy is a form of government (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Form_of_government) in which representative democracy (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Representative_democracy) operates under the principles of liberalism (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Liberalism). It is characterized by fair, free, and competitive elections (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Elections) between multiple distinct (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Pluralism_(political_philosophy)) political parties (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Political_parties), a separation of powers (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Separation_of_powers) into different branches of government (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Branches_of_government), the rule of law (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Rule_of_law) in everyday life as part of an open society (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Open_society), and the protection of human rights (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Human_rights) and civil liberties (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Civil_liberties) for all persons. To define the system in practice, liberal democracies often draw upon a constitution (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Constitution), either formally written or uncodified (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Uncodified_constitution), to delineate the powers of government and enshrine the social contract (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Social_contract). After a period of sustained expansion throughout the 20th century, liberal democracy became the predominant political system on Earth (http://thepoliticalforums.com/wiki/Earth).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

Sounds good to me. When are we going to try it in USA?


It would offend your "republican" ideals, whatever they are.

Ivan88
08-31-2012, 02:29 AM
Religion is the way people hide from God.

They hire a priest to say they're good, they donate some money, listen to sermons, do this & don't do that, and thus imagine that they have accomplished something.

Religion is a cover story to worship your ego.

Its like the people who hire lawyers to tell them something is lawful, when its not, so they'll have an excuse, or the people that believe the politicians and imagine that they are being patriotic and loyal.
http://blacknonbelievers.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/the-rapture.jpg

roadmaster
08-31-2012, 02:40 AM
Religion is the way people hide from God.

They hire a priest to say they're good, they donate some money, listen to sermons, do this & don't do that, and thus imagine that they have accomplished something.

Its like the people who hire lawyers to tell them something is lawful, when its not, so they'll have an excuse, or the people that believe the politicians and imagine that they are being patriotic and loyal.

LOL so now we are hiding from God. I walk with Jesus, why would I want to hide from Him?

Awryly
08-31-2012, 02:45 AM
LOL so now we are hiding from God. I walk with Jesus, why would I want to hide from Him?


I sometimes wish I was as disturbed.

roadmaster
08-31-2012, 03:33 AM
I sometimes wish I was as disturbed.

Or maybe you just wish you had peace as many of us do. My Master will never leave me nor deceive me unlike yours.

Carygrant
08-31-2012, 07:13 AM
. I walk with Jesus, why would I want to hide from Him?

Because every time we go down to the lake , he starts showing off and i nearly drown .

birddog
08-31-2012, 08:42 AM
Or maybe you just wish you had peace as many of us do. My Master will never leave me nor deceive me unlike yours.

Amen Brother!

birddog
08-31-2012, 08:44 AM
Because every time we go down to the lake , he starts showing off and i nearly drown .

We all need more faith, but I appreciate your sense of humor. lol

Awryly
08-31-2012, 08:56 AM
Because every time we go down to the lake , he starts showing off and i nearly drown .


He hasn't taught you how to walk on water yet?

Chris
08-31-2012, 08:57 AM
The Athenians had a republic that worked as a democracy.

Are you sure you have your ducks in a row?

As I said we used to have a republic, but that's been lost to social democracy, the worst form of socialism, despite your being an advocate.

Chris
08-31-2012, 08:59 AM
Religion is the way people hide from God.

They hire a priest to say they're good, they donate some money, listen to sermons, do this & don't do that, and thus imagine that they have accomplished something.

Religion is a cover story to worship your ego.

Its like the people who hire lawyers to tell them something is lawful, when its not, so they'll have an excuse, or the people that believe the politicians and imagine that they are being patriotic and loyal.
http://blacknonbelievers.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/the-rapture.jpg



Religion is the way people hide from God.

Not sure the rest of what you posted but that one line is kind of profound and worth thinking about.

Ivan88
08-31-2012, 05:11 PM
Not sure the rest of what you posted but that one line is kind of profound and worth thinking about..............
Religion is the way people hide from God.

Glad you noticed. There is hope for you. No one can be saved from himself as long as he supposes he is righteous.
Christ can only save sinners.

Awryly
08-31-2012, 05:47 PM
.............

Glad you noticed. There is hope for you. No one can be saved from himself as long as he supposes he is righteous.
Christ can only save sinners.

Irish Protestant or Irish Catholic sinners? German Christian sinners or Allied Christian sinners? Sunni sinners or Shia sinners? Hindu sinners or Muslim sinners?

Yes, I know Sunnis are not Christians.

GrumpyDog
08-31-2012, 06:15 PM
Religion is the way people hide from God.

They hire a priest to say they're good, they donate some money, listen to sermons, do this & don't do that, and thus imagine that they have accomplished something.

Religion is a cover story to worship your ego.

Its like the people who hire lawyers to tell them something is lawful, when its not, so they'll have an excuse, or the people that believe the politicians and imagine that they are being patriotic and loyal.
http://blacknonbelievers.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/the-rapture.jpg

These all look like Liberals to me. I do not see a suit and tie with American flag pin,anywhere in the group. Of particular note is the girl in the foreground, with both legs and mouth open.

wingrider
08-31-2012, 06:34 PM
He hasn't taught you how to walk on water yet?
even I can walk on water... just wait until winter when it is frozen.. duh

Chris
08-31-2012, 07:21 PM
.............

Glad you noticed. There is hope for you. No one can be saved from himself as long as he supposes he is righteous.
Christ can only save sinners.

Yeah, I'm not religious.

Frogger
08-31-2012, 08:29 PM
Absolutely. I would outlaw the concept of corporate person-hood. Citizens United was one of the worst decisions SCOTUS came out with in decades.

Only if they declare that unions can't do the same thing.

Peter1469
08-31-2012, 09:14 PM
Only if they declare that unions can't do the same thing.

That shouldn't even be an option.

Mainecoons
09-01-2012, 07:23 AM
But it is and they do.

Peter1469
09-01-2012, 07:30 AM
That is not an excuse for opening the system up for even more corruption.

Mainecoons
09-01-2012, 09:00 AM
Corruption is allowing only one side to do this. Either both or neither.

Chris
09-01-2012, 09:08 AM
It for tat doesn't work, end corruption sure you can and it'll be easier to end it elsewhere. End government cronyism with corporations, then with unions.