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Common
11-23-2015, 07:39 PM
Article after article facts after facts, the middle class has been destroyed and top few take the lionshare.

As the annual "season of giving" dawns, a new study finds that stark income inequity -- a dramatically rising trend in the United States -- makes the "haves" less generous toward others.
Higher-income people were less inclined to be generous both when they came from states where income inequality is high and when they were made to believe that there was a sharp divide between rich and poor, a new study (http://www.pnas.org/cgi/doi/10.1073/pnas.1511536112) found. And they were less charitable in both cases than were low-income people.
Since the 1980s -- the end of a 30-year period during which the middle class flourished in the United States -- wealth has grown increasingly concentrated at the top of the economic ladder, while low-income Americans have commanded a smaller and smaller share of the nation's wealth.
In 2013, the top 0.1% of households received approximately 10% of the pretax income, versus approximately 3%-4% between 1951 and 1981. The Congressional Budget Office (http://www.latimes.com/topic/business/congressional-budget-office-ORGOV000034163-topic.html) reckoned that between 1979 and 2007, households controlling the top 1% of the nation's wealth increased their incomes 275%, while the incomes of those in the economy's lowest tier picked up a mere 18%.

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-income-inequality-rich-stingier-20151123-story.html

Peter1469
11-23-2015, 07:42 PM
Income inequality is a strawman.

Tahuyaman
11-23-2015, 08:09 PM
Income inequality is a strawman.


I agree.

I know the left is always trying to champion this notion that the middle class is slowly dying off. I don't believe that is true either.

Im sure someone can cherry pick or massage some contrived stats to support that idea though.

Chris
11-23-2015, 08:11 PM
But the middle class is being gutted. We're the one paying the taxes being redistributed to the rich and the poor, which ends up in the hands of the rich anyhow.

Tahuyaman
11-23-2015, 08:16 PM
But the middle class is being gutted... I'm saying that I don't believe you can support that idea with unrefutable evidence.

del
11-23-2015, 08:23 PM
http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/20111029_WOC689.gif

Chris
11-23-2015, 08:32 PM
I'm saying that I don't believe you can support that idea with unrefutable evidence.

On income inequality, I agree. Sowell always points out that static statistics provide a poor picture when people move up and down in terms of wealth all the time, the rich falling and the poor rising. And then there's the fact Amercan poor are richer than most people in the world.

But the middle class is being gutted to pay for redistribution.

Chris
11-23-2015, 08:33 PM
http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/20111029_WOC689.gif

^^Static statistics.

Even they though show all ships rise with the tide, as Kennedy observed.

zelmo1234
11-23-2015, 09:33 PM
But the middle class is being gutted. We're the one paying the taxes being redistributed to the rich and the poor, which ends up in the hands of the rich anyhow.

That is not true. The middle class does not pay the lion share of the taxes the top 10% do.

And of course the reason for the shift in wealth is because the policies of this administration. If you create policies that punish those that create high paying jobs. This leaves the USA with the lowest worker participation rate since the Carter administration. And the funny part is Carter is the last president that tried this crap.

Until the Democrats realize that Business owners are not in business to support workers, they have a lot more wealth that will be moving to the one percent

Mini Me
11-23-2015, 09:54 PM
Lets not confuse Chris and Zelmo with facts!

Jeez! You guys don't even know how to read your own charts!

zelmo1234
11-24-2015, 12:12 AM
Lets not confuse Chris and Zelmo with facts!

Jeez! You guys don't even know how to read your own charts!

http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/top10-percent-income-earners

http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/top10-percent-income-earners

Now which group do you think is being fleeced when it comes to income taxes?

Now I am guessing that you belong to this group?

http://www.businessinsider.com/43-of-americans-dont-pay-federal-income-tax-2013-9

So the proper response from you to the people that pay for all of your "Benefits" is Thank You

And Bye the Bye???? you are welcome.

zelmo1234
11-24-2015, 12:14 AM
The funny part is, these confused people fighting the class war, and hoping and praying for redistribution?

Are actually 7 years into the policies that they have been craving? And they can't see that these policies that are designed to tax the wealth away from the makers, are actually causing the wealth gap to widen.

Peter1469
11-24-2015, 02:44 AM
The middle class is being gutted because of our near-recession level economy. End corporate taxes and bring business back to the US.

donttread
11-24-2015, 08:49 AM
I'm saying that I don't believe you can support that idea with unrefutable evidence.

Wait a few years and you'll be saying. What middle class?

Mac-7
11-24-2015, 08:57 AM
Income inequality is a strawman.

Income inequality is real.

But liberals are wrong to think that income redistribution is the answer.

Matty
11-24-2015, 09:00 AM
Article after article facts after facts, the middle class has been destroyed and top few take the lionshare.

As the annual "season of giving" dawns, a new study finds that stark income inequity -- a dramatically rising trend in the United States -- makes the "haves" less generous toward others.
Higher-income people were less inclined to be generous both when they came from states where income inequality is high and when they were made to believe that there was a sharp divide between rich and poor, a new study (http://www.pnas.org/cgi/doi/10.1073/pnas.1511536112) found. And they were less charitable in both cases than were low-income people.
Since the 1980s -- the end of a 30-year period during which the middle class flourished in the United States -- wealth has grown increasingly concentrated at the top of the economic ladder, while low-income Americans have commanded a smaller and smaller share of the nation's wealth.
In 2013, the top 0.1% of households received approximately 10% of the pretax income, versus approximately 3%-4% between 1951 and 1981. The Congressional Budget Office (http://www.latimes.com/topic/business/congressional-budget-office-ORGOV000034163-topic.html) reckoned that between 1979 and 2007, households controlling the top 1% of the nation's wealth increased their incomes 275%, while the incomes of those in the economy's lowest tier picked up a mere 18%.

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-income-inequality-rich-stingier-20151123-story.html




I bet there is a correlation between this and the constant whining about the evil rich.

Chris
11-24-2015, 09:29 AM
That is not true. The middle class does not pay the lion share of the taxes the top 10% do.

And of course the reason for the shift in wealth is because the policies of this administration. If you create policies that punish those that create high paying jobs. This leaves the USA with the lowest worker participation rate since the Carter administration. And the funny part is Carter is the last president that tried this crap.

Until the Democrats realize that Business owners are not in business to support workers, they have a lot more wealth that will be moving to the one percent

The rich hire lawyers to find loopholes so even though they have a nominal tax rate that's higher than others they don't pay it.

Hey, I'm not arguing this to advocate for higher taxes.

Chris
11-24-2015, 09:30 AM
Lets not confuse Chris and Zelmo with facts!

Jeez! You guys don't even know how to read your own charts!

And your facts and logic are where? Right.

Chris
11-24-2015, 09:32 AM
Income inequality is real.

But liberals are wrong to think that income redistribution is the answer.

It's not real, it's an abstraction. Graphs like del's are static data representing groups or classes and ignore the real fact that people move between groups.

Mac-7
11-24-2015, 09:43 AM
It's not real, it's an abstraction. Graphs like del's are static data representing groups or classes and ignore the real fact that people move between groups.

I didnt even consider del's graph before making my comment.

The fall of the middle class is real

Chris
11-24-2015, 09:49 AM
I didnt even consider del's graph before making my comment.

The fall of the middle class is real

Right, but you argued inequality is real when it's an abstraction.

Matty
11-24-2015, 09:55 AM
I didnt even consider del's graph before making my comment.

The fall of the middle class is real


But, it is not because of the rich. It is because of Obama's screwed up policies.

Chris
11-24-2015, 10:19 AM
But, it is not because of the rich. It is because of Obama's screwed up policies.

And Bush's and....

Mac-7
11-24-2015, 10:27 AM
But, it is not because of the rich. It is because of Obama's screwed up policies.

Clinton, bush and now obama.

all have contributed to the loss of manufacturing and middle class jobs.

Also libertarians and their goofy free trade religion

and Christian do-gooders who mean well by wanting America to share its wealth but ultimately knew not what they did.

Then we have different liberal do-gooders who want to flood America with dirt poor brown people from latin america to take jobs from US citizens.

there are many reasons for the decline of the middle class

Chris
11-24-2015, 10:36 AM
Clinton, bush and now obama.

all have contributed to the loss of manufacturing and middle class jobs.

Also libertarians and their goofy free trade religion

and Christian do-gooders who mean well by wanting America to share its wealth but ultimately knew not what they did.

Then we have different liberal do-gooders who want to flood America with dirt poor brown people from latin america to take jobs from US citizens.

there are many reasons for the decline of the middle class

What's goofy is you blaming libertarians for free trade. For one, libertarians are not in office, and for another, the US has no free trade policies.