Happy Thanksgiving from Turkey - Turkey downs Russian fighter jet near Syrian border

[Cigar]

STANBUL, Turkey, Nov. 24 (UPI) -- The Turkish military downed a Russian-made warplane near the Syrian border Tuesday after Turkey said it violated its airspace near Syria, a move that could aggravate the situation in a region already fraught with tension.

Russian and Turkish officials remain in dispute about the circumstances behind the downing. Russian officials said the SU-24 fighter jet had been shot down near Syria's border with Turkey, but said the aircraft was over Syrian territory and has the data to prove it. Russia said the plane was brought down by shelling from the ground.

Turkey said the jet was warned 10 times in a span of five minutes over the airspace and shot down by two F-16s. The pilots were seen ejecting from the plane before it crashed. It is unclear what happened to the pilot, but some reports say they landed in an area north of Latakia, Syria, an area controlled by rebel fighters.

Already, there is heightened tensions in Syria's crowded airspace with U.S., Russia, France, Turkey, Israel and others directly or indirectly involved in the Syrian war. A U.S-led coalition is conducting airstrikes against the Islamic State militant group operating in the country, while Russian' planes have also been targeting Syrian rebels fighting against the regime of President Bashar al-Assad.

The incident could ramp up the friction between the West and Russia since Turkey is a NATO member. The NATO military alliances said it is watching the situation "closely" and was in contact with Turkey.

Read more: http://www.tdm.com/Top_News/US/2015/11/24/Turkey-downs-Russian-fighter-jet-near-Syrian-border/7001448359159/

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-15/putin-shirt-off-fishing.jpg

[exotix]

*Breaking*

Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane Near Border With Syria

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane-near-border-syria-n468671


ISTANBUL — Turkish fighter jets shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian border after it violated Turkish airspace on Tuesday, officials said.

The Russian aircraft was warned 10 times in five minutes before being shot down, according to the Turkish air force.

It was the first time a NATO member's military has downed a Russian or Soviet military aircraft since the 1950s, according to Reuters.

NATO said it would hold an extraordinary meeting later Tuesday to discuss the incident at the request of Turkish officials.

Syrian fighters on the ground and Turkish sources told NBC News that the Russian jet's pilots ejected and landed in north of Latakia, Syria.

That area is controlled by rebels fighting to topple President Bashar Assad.

Russia has an air base in Latakia which is used to launch bombing raids targeting Assad's foes — including ISIS.



Video Inside

http://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2015_48/1314496/151124-jet-fire-jpo-515a_3968ef9e01369fdaf08c350aaf663b72.nbcnews-ux-2880-1000.jpg

[Cigar]

:grin: -
Happy Thanksgiving from Turkey - Turkey downs Russian fighter jet near Syrian border (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/53989-Happy-Thanksgiving-from-Turkey-Turkey-downs-Russian-fighter-jet-near-Syrian-border)

[Safety]

Was one of the pilots shot down named Owen Wilson?

[Safety]

Notice: Duplicate threads merged

[exotix]

*update*

Turkmen forces now say they shot to death pilots as they parachuted to ground

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/turkey-downs-russian-warplane-near-syria-border-moscow-denies-airspace-violation/ar-BBnnnBR?ocid=iehp

[texan]

Nice to see our great FP leadership has brought us one more step to World War 3.

[Cigar]

*update*

Turkmen forces now say they shot to death pilots as they parachuted to ground

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/turkey-downs-russian-warplane-near-syria-border-moscow-denies-airspace-violation/ar-BBnnnBR?ocid=iehp

Don't worry, The Conservative Hero will spring to action :wink:

[SemiteArt]

According to claims, this Russian helicopter was also shot while searching for the pilots.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKE9az3MdmA

[exotix]

Nice to see our great FP leadership has brought us one more step to World War 3.Let's watch Obama shooting it down to start World War Duhbya III



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hrQkdTHGHw

[Peter1469]

We should expel Turkey from NATO. Tell them they are too far from the Atlantic.

[Beevee]

Don't worry, The Conservative Hero will spring to action :wink:

Which one?

The one with the hammer who would tackle the sickle or the alternative waterboarding enthusiast?

[Beevee]

We should expel Turkey from NATO. Tell them they are too far from the Atlantic.

So you don't believe that Turkey as a NATO member would have taken this action with Obama approval, since the US is the coalition leader?

[Cigar]

Which one?

The one with the hammer who would tackle the sickle or the alternative waterboarding enthusiast?

Donald is All Mouth :laugh: I would never count on him doing anything but Talk and Lie :grin:

[Peter1469]

So you don't believe that Turkey as a NATO member would have taken this action with Obama approval, since the US is the coalition leader?

Obama likely doesn't know this happened yet. :shocked:

What type of question was that?

[SemiteArt]

A significant cartoon by Arabi 21 website.

http://i.hizliresim.com/P6EPO6.png

[Green Arrow]

We should expel Turkey from NATO. Tell them they are too far from the Atlantic.

And also because they are the worst possible ally in the region right now.

[SemiteArt]

What I ve found. Nice question. Even perfect.

http://i.hizliresim.com/kLYnp7.jpg

[silvereyes]

A significant cartoon by Arabi 21 website.

http://i.hizliresim.com/P6EPO6.png
Was that to spite his face?

[Beevee]

We should expel Turkey from NATO. Tell them they are too far from the Atlantic.

Not gonna happen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incirlik_Air_Base

[Truth Detector]

We should expel Turkey from NATO. Tell them they are too far from the Atlantic.

Dumb.

[Truth Detector]

So you don't believe that Turkey as a NATO member would have taken this action with Obama approval, since the US is the coalition leader?

Nothing about this Administration suggests leadership.

[Truth Detector]

Obama likely doesn't know this happened yet. :shocked:

What type of question was that?

He was once again caught off guard??? Say it isn't so! Still nothing from him regarding this event. They're still struggling with how to spin this as a failure of the Republicans in Congress.

[Peter1469]

Dumb.

Why?

[Truth Detector]

A significant cartoon by Arabi 21 website.

http://i.hizliresim.com/P6EPO6.png

Ironic using an F-16. Cartoonists, like liberals, are poorly informed.

[Truth Detector]

And also because they are the worst possible ally in the region right now.

Yep; Syria would make a much better ally. ::wink wink::

[Truth Detector]

Why?

Ironic that it isn't obvious to you.

[SemiteArt]

We should expel Turkey from NATO. Tell them they are too far from the Atlantic.
Turkey is also planning to leave from NATO. They want to create Turanian Turkish Union consist of Turkish States in the World. They do not trust NATO and Turkish people generally do not have good ideas about it, they hates NATO.

SM-G900FQ cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi

[valley ranch]

Angela Merkel in Turkey to promote EU migrant plan

[Beevee]

Nothing about this Administration suggests leadership.

CNN, MSNBC, FOX, ABC and CBS would disagree with you. They suggest it. Propaganda, of course.

Americans must be made to feel safe even though it's impossible to plan for every situation.

But the worst scenario is that portrayed by ISIS because they don't care how many 'fighters' they lose. They are totally expendable. So, they want to fight the US military, not because they believe they can beat them but because even one dead American soldier creates a wave of homeland sympathetic emotion which will be used to bolster even more ISIS recruitment worldwide.

[Beevee]

Turkey is also planning to leave from NATO. They want to create Turanian Turkish Union consist of Turkish States in the World. They do not trust NATO and Turkish people generally do not have good ideas about it, they hates NATO.

SM-G900FQ cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi

Are they planning to leave the EU as well? Because one scenario begets another. Expulsion. Not that the majority of Europeans would care.

[Cigar]

Is Putin Fishing?

[SemiteArt]

Are they planning to leave the EU as well? Because one scenario begets another. Expulsion. Not that the majority of Europeans would care.
Turkey is not an EU member. They are planning to use Turkish Lira or another common currency with their partner countries. 2023 is their target year for many things.

SM-G900FQ cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi

[Green Arrow]

Yep; Syria would make a much better ally. ::wink wink::

Why not? They've been fighting ISIL, unlike Turkey.

[Beevee]

Turkey is not an EU member. They are planning to use Turkish Lira or another common currency with their partner countries. 2023 is their target year for many things.

SM-G900FQ cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi

It's an associate. And has much to lose by not attaining full membership.

[Truth Detector]

Turkey is not an EU member. They are planning to use Turkish Lira or another common currency with their partner countries. 2023 is their target year for many things.

SM-G900FQ cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi

Link to support this claim?

[Truth Detector]

Why not? They've been fighting ISIL, unlike Turkey.

So you support Assad's brutal regime? The US would be benefitted by allying itself with a nation accused of gassing its own citizens? Does the UN no longer care?

I thought ISIS was JV? What about that red line? It was another Obama lie?

[nathanbforrest45]

If Turkey attacks Russia from the rear will Greece help?

[Mac-7]

STANBUL, Turkey, Nov. 24 (UPI) -- The Turkish military downed a Russian-made warplane near the Syrian border Tuesday after Turkey said it violated its airspace near Syria, a move that could aggravate the situation in a region already fraught with tension. Russian and Turkish officials remain in dispute about the circumstances behind the downing. Russian officials said the SU-24 fighter jet had been shot down near Syria's border with Turkey, but said the aircraft was over Syrian territory and has the data to prove it. Russia said the plane was brought down by shelling from the ground. Turkey said the jet was warned 10 times in a span of five minutes over the airspace and shot down by two F-16s. The pilots were seen ejecting from the plane before it crashed. It is unclear what happened to the pilot, but some reports say they landed in an area north of Latakia, Syria, an area controlled by rebel fighters. Already, there is heightened tensions in Syria's crowded airspace with U.S., Russia, France, Turkey, Israel and others directly or indirectly involved in the Syrian war. A U.S-led coalition is conducting airstrikes against the Islamic State militant group operating in the country, while Russian' planes have also been targeting Syrian rebels fighting against the regime of President Bashar al-Assad. The incident could ramp up the friction between the West and Russia since Turkey is a NATO member. The NATO military alliances said it is watching the situation "closely" and was in contact with Turkey. Read more: http://www.tdm.com/Top_News/US/2015/11/24/Turkey-downs-Russian-fighter-jet-near-Syrian-border/7001448359159/if romney were president this would not have happened

[nathanbforrest45]

A real man would be fly fishing, not bait casting.

[exotix]

if romney were president this would not have happenedHe would've easily blamed Obama.

[Mac-7]

He would've easily blamed Obama.

It wouldnt have happened

putin would not be in syria except thst obama is weak

[Ethereal]

The sad thing is that if WWIII comes about, then virtually none of the internet tough guys celebrating this or calling for more aggressive policy towards Russia will be the ones risking their necks in the war. That's because they are spineless cowards with no principles. Puffing out their chests and talking tough costs them nothing and makes them feel patriotic, so they run their mouths knowing they will never put on the uniform and face down the enemies they helped to manufacture.

[leekohler2]

Dumb.

You have no right to say that about anyone's posts, given that this is the best you can do.

[leekohler2]

It wouldnt have happened

putin would not be in syria except thst obama is weak

No, that side of the world is finally taking care of itself, like it should have done all along. Let them handle their own business for a change.


The sad thing is that if WWIII comes about, then virtually none of the internet tough guys celebrating this or calling for more aggressive policy towards Russia will be the ones risking their necks in the war. That's because they are spineless cowards with no principles. Puffing out their chests and talking tough costs them nothing and makes them feel patriotic, so they run their mouths knowing they will never put on the uniform and face down the enemies they helped to manufacture.

Yeah, I can think of a few right away.

[exotix]

It wouldnt have happened

putin would not be in syria except thst obama is weakSyria has been a Russian ally since 1944 if not 1893 .. in 2011/2012 Russia used it's veto-power in the U.N. against Western and Arab resolutions against Syria.

So I'm not see'ng how a dude who can't figure out why a dog on top of his car book'n down the hi-way would shit all over it ... is capable and exemplary of international diplomacy ... LOL

[Mac-7]

No, that side of the world is finally taking care of itself, like it should have done all along. Let them handle their own business for a change.

.

Russia is not paet of syria.

So dont say "they" are finally taking care of themselves without us

[leekohler2]

Russia is not paet of syria.

So dont say "they" are finally taking care of themselves without us

I said- "that side of the world". I never said Syria was part of Russia. Wow. You sure can make **** up.

[Mac-7]

Syria has been a Russian ally since 1944 if not 1893 .. in 2011/2012 Russia used it's veto-power in the U.N. against Western and Arab resolutions against Syria.



The russian army fighting in syria is new.

No AMERICAN president would stand for it.

[Mac-7]

I said- "that side of the world". I never said Syria was part of Russia. Wow. You sure can make **** up.

Russia fighting in syria is not the same as the syrians taking care of themselves

[leekohler2]

The russian army fighting in syria is new.

No AMERICAN president would stand for it.

Oh here we go again. Wait, you forgot to say "godless, liberal, muslim"....I'm sure there's a few I"m forgetting, like "Kenyan" or something similar.

[Green Arrow]

So you support Assad's brutal regime? The US would be benefitted by allying itself with a nation accused of gassing its own citizens? Does the UN no longer care?

I neither support nor oppose Assad's regime, I simply see no logic in trying to overthrow him, particularly when overthrowing strongmen in the ME is a proven failure.

We have backed plenty of ruthless dictators in history in the name of opposing a greater threat. Why stop now?


I thought ISIS was JV? What about that red line? It was another Obama lie?

Obama knows about as much about how to combat ISIL as the armchair Pattons on this forum do. Which is nothing.

[Ethereal]

So you support Assad's brutal regime?

I certainly support them over the AQ/ISIS terrorists who are trying to overthrow him. The question becomes: Why are you so intent on seeing a secular ruler ousted and replaced by the mortal enemies of western civilization? Why do you hate America?

[Mac-7]

Oh here we go again. Wait, you forgot to say "godless, liberal, muslim"....I'm sure there's a few I"m forgetting, like "Kenyan" or something similar.

Most muslims are either a little or a lot crazy depending on the muslim.

But they arent godless.

[leekohler2]

Obama knows about as much about how to combat ISIL as the armchair Pattons on this forum do. Which is nothing.

I assume you are including yourself?

[leekohler2]

Most muslims are either a little or a lot crazy depending on the muslim.

But they arent godless.

Fair enough. I just wanted to make sure I covered most of the terms you use in your rants. ;)

[SemiteArt]

It's an associate. And has much to lose by not attaining full membership.

There are two group of Turkish people. One side is Kemalists. These are the people who support M.K. Ataturk the practitioner of republic form of government. These people supports any kind of Western movements. They usually have an inferiority complex about their country, %20 of total population. Another part is Ottoman supporters, those people mostly support the current government. They do not like Western or EU and see themselves superior than Western, these people are about 70-75 % of the total population. Being a member for EU is something based on the relationship between state interests, have nothing with people.

[Green Arrow]

I assume you are including yourself?

Naturally. I have no military experience. I'm well-read in military strategy but that is largely meaningless.

[Beevee]

There are two group of Turkish people. One side is Kemalists. These are the people who support M.K. Ataturk the practitioner of republic form of government. These people supports any kind of Western movements. They usually have an inferiority complex about their country, %20 of total population. Another part is Ottoman supporters, those people mostly support the current government. They do not like Western or EU and see themselves superior than Western, these people are about 70-75 % of the total population. Being a member for EU is something based on the relationship between state interests, have nothing with people.

You could say that about 90% of people in the EU.

[SemiteArt]

Link to support this claim?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_vision

http://www.businessinsider.com/putin-proposes-new-common-currency-among-former-soviet-states-to-replace-the-dollar-2015-9

[Ethereal]

Su-24 max velocity is around 800 MPH. Here is the radar image released by Turkey:

http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2015/11/24/84c97b44-77f9-4c46-9ef2-02b9b795a0f1/thumbnail/620x350/8284ebccae50369375a315185be16e31/turkeyradarrussianjetsyria.jpg

Here is the area where the Russian jet was shot down:

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OJ-AC923_TURKJE_16U_20151124075710.jpg

Google maps shows the distance between the entry and exit points is about two miles, if that.

But let's be generous and say that the Su-24 was traveling at 400 MPH through a four mile interval.

That would mean the Su-24 was in Turkish airspace for about 36 seconds.

Feel free to check my figures and calculations.

[Truth Detector]

Su-24 max velocity is around 800 MPH. Here is the radar image released by Turkey:

http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2015/11/24/84c97b44-77f9-4c46-9ef2-02b9b795a0f1/thumbnail/620x350/8284ebccae50369375a315185be16e31/turkeyradarrussianjetsyria.jpg

Here is the area where the Russian jet was shot down:

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OJ-AC923_TURKJE_16U_20151124075710.jpg

Google maps shows the distance between the entry and exit points is about two miles, if that.

But let's be generous and say that the Su-24 was traveling at 400 MPH through a four mile interval.

That would mean the Su-24 was in Turkish airspace for about 36 seconds.

Feel free to check my figures and calculations.

So the Turks are liars and the Russians are telling the truth? LMAO

After repeated warnings, the Russian jet ignored warnings....it is shot down....now what? More hand wringing? More whining and carping about Republicans? More excuse making for the vacuum of leadership from the Obama Admin?

[Ethereal]

So the Turks are liars...

An impossibility!


...and the Russians are telling the truth?

Another impossibility!


After repeated warnings, the Russian jet ignored warnings....it is shot down....now what? More hand wringing? More whining and carping about Republicans? More excuse making for the vacuum of leadership from the Obama Admin?

You can believe the terrorist-supporting Turks if you like. I will believe the Russians who are fighting ISIS and AQ in Syria.

[Common Sense]

Lets not believe our allies. Lets believe Rootin tootin Putin.

[Ethereal]

Lets not believe our allies.

You mean the country that is providing aid and comfort to ISIS? That "ally"?

Research Paper: ISIS-Turkey List (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-l-phillips/research-paper-isis-turke_b_6128950.html)
Turkey could cut off Islamic State’s supply lines. So why doesn’t it? (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/18/turkey-cut-islamic-state-supply-lines-erdogan-isis)


Lets believe Rootin tootin Putin.

Yea, because unlike Erdoğan, Putin is a majoritarian autocrat whose government is rife with corruption. No similarities between them at all... :rollseyes:

[Green Arrow]

Lets not believe our allies. Lets believe Rootin tootin Putin.

Why is Turkey an ally, exactly? They are aiding ISIL and murdering anti-ISIL Kurdish forces.

[SemiteArt]

There were two Russian planes. One was flying close to the border and leave the area after a warning call. This one was coming from behind and directly violated the air space. This is not the first event. Russian planes were doing that continuosly. Here a video below, a few months old, while Turkish F-16 chasing Russian jet over Syria.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQoXldRBhnA

[Ethereal]

With "allies" like Turkey and Saudi Arabia, who needs enemies?

[Truth Detector]

You can believe the terrorist-supporting Turks if you like.

I don't think we still have enough information to support anyone in this story yet.


I will believe the Russians who are fighting ISIS and AQ in Syria.

Clarifications: you are believing the Russians who are allied with Iran, a pariah nation, and who are both trying to prop up the despotic regime of a dictator who has been killing his own people by the thousands in order to remain in power even gassing them with chemical weapons.

Thank you for clarifying where your allegiances lie.

[Ethereal]

Why is Turkey an ally, exactly? They are aiding ISIL and murdering anti-ISIL Kurdish forces.

No! Don't bring up the Turkish government's brutal oppression of the Kurds. That shatters the illusion that Turkey is a defender of human rights and democracy and we cannot have that!

[Truth Detector]

Why is Turkey an ally, exactly? They are aiding ISIL and murdering anti-ISIL Kurdish forces.

They are part of NATO; the claims they are aiding and abetting ISIS are highly speculative and do not merit a lot of credibility.

[Truth Detector]

With "allies" like Turkey and Saudi Arabia, who needs enemies?

Yeah; when you can ally with a dictator like Assad murdering his own people, along with the Pariah nation of Iran and a Ukraine invading nation like Russia!!! DUH.

[Ethereal]

I don't think we still have enough information to support anyone in this story yet.

Unlike you, I've been paying attention to what's happening in Syria, so I have more than enough information to make an informed decision. Because it's not like there will ever be definitive proof one way or the other, so we have to use logic (an alien concept to you) in order to arrive at a conclusion. And the fact that Turkey is and has been aiding and defending ISIS in Syria is more than enough evidence to strip them of any credibility and to assign them with a clear motive for shooting down a Russian jet over Syrian airspace.


Clarifications: you are believing the Russians who are allied with Iran, a pariah nation, and who are both trying to prop up the despotic regime of a dictator who has been killing his own people by the thousands in order to remain in power even gassing them with chemical weapons.

Thank you for clarifying where your allegiances lie.

I support the secular government of Syria that is fighting Sunni terrorists that are funded by Wahhabi scum lords in Saudi Arabia.

Thanks for letting everyone know that you support the ousting of a secular government by a bunch of Sunni Islamists who want to turn Syria into a Saudi-style theocracy.

[Truth Detector]

No! Don't bring up the Turkish government's brutal oppression of the Kurds. That shatters the illusion that Turkey is a defender of human rights and democracy and we cannot have that!

Who is making the bolded claim? Oh that's right, you're engaging in your typical strawman pontifications while defending the Assad regime allied with Iran and Russia.

[Ethereal]

They are part of NATO; the claims they are aiding and abetting ISIS are highly speculative and do not merit a lot of credibility.

They are not the least bit speculative.

Research Paper: ISIS-Turkey List (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-l-phillips/research-paper-isis-turke_b_6128950.html)
Turkey could cut off Islamic State’s supply lines. So why doesn’t it? (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/18/turkey-cut-islamic-state-supply-lines-erdogan-isis)

But flag-waving neo-con chickenhawks are absolutely immune to facts, logic, and consistent principles, so there is no way they will ever acknowledge reality. They prefer to live in a collectivist fantasy world where the US government can do no wrong and is always truthful and noble.

[SemiteArt]

They are not the least bit speculative.

Research Paper: ISIS-Turkey List (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-l-phillips/research-paper-isis-turke_b_6128950.html)
Turkey could cut off Islamic State’s supply lines. So why doesn’t it? (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/18/turkey-cut-islamic-state-supply-lines-erdogan-isis)

But flag-waving neo-con chickenhawks are absolutely immune to facts, logic, and consistent principles, so there is no way they will ever acknowledge reality. They prefer to live in a collectivist fantasy world where the US government can do no wrong and is always truthful and noble.


More conspiracy theories ?

[Ethereal]

Yeah; when you can ally with a dictator like Assad murdering his own people, along with the Pariah nation of Iran and a Ukraine invading nation like Russia!!! DUH.

If you hate Assad so much, then feel free to get off your wrinkly, spotted ass and fight alongside the Saudi-funded terrorists who are trying to overthrow his secular government.

[Ethereal]

Who is making the bolded claim? Oh that's right, you're engaging in your typical strawman pontifications while defending the Assad regime allied with Iran and Russia.

So if Turkey is not fighting for democracy and human rights in Syria, then what are they fighting for, exactly?

[Ethereal]

More conspiracy theories ?

I posted articles with ample evidence demonstrating my claims.

[SemiteArt]

I posted articles with ample evidence demonstrating my claims.

I have read so many articles like these ones. All consist of personal ideas and conspiracy theories. Please could you copy and paste the "evidence" part or parts ?

[Matty]

If you hate Assad so much, then feel free to get off your wrinkly, spotted ass and fight alongside the Saudi-funded terrorists who are trying to overthrow his secular government.



You love a genocidal maniac? Wow.

[Truth Detector]

Unlike you, I've been paying attention to what's happening in Syria, so I have more than enough information to make an informed decision.

Based on your emotional eruptions, it is highly unlikely you even have a grasp on reality.


Because it's not like there will ever be definitive proof one way or the other, so we have to use logic (an alien concept to you) in order to arrive at a conclusion. And the fact that Turkey is and has been aiding and defending ISIS in Syria is more than enough evidence to strip them of any credibility and to assign them with a clear motive for shooting down a Russian jet over Syrian airspace.

I am still waiting for this credible information and links to support the idiotic claim that Turkey is aiding and defending ISIS in Syria.


I support the secular government of Syria that is fighting Sunni terrorists that are funded by Wahhabi scum lords in Saudi Arabia.

Wrong; you are supporting a despot who is murdering tens of thousands of his own people even using chemical weapons in order to cling to power. You are supporting a pariah nation and a former KGB operative who wish to ensure the despot stays in power.


Thanks for letting everyone know that you support the ousting of a secular government by a bunch of Sunni Islamists who want to turn Syria into a Saudi-style theocracy.

Wrong; I don't support ANY interference in this civil war and would be happy if they all ended up killing each other for another decade.

I don't support Russian interventionism or the Iranian efforts to prop up the Assad regime as their jumping off point to send terrorists into Lebanon and Israel.

I support the idea of other Arab nations taking in the civilians trying to escape the devastation.

I also support the idea that due to the lack of leadership on the part of Obama on this issue and his idiotic "red-line" statement he had no stomach to back up, the situation is becoming more volatile and Russian engagement merely exacerbates it.

But alas, because the AmeriKan sheeple elected this feckless dumbfuck, and don't have the stomach to support our allies in the region and think we should make the same stupid mistakes we made in WWI, WWII, Korea and Viet Nam, this is where we are; sitting on the sidelines watching a side show become volatile with the possibility of turning into a much larger disaster with nations bordering Syria.

[Truth Detector]

They are not the least bit speculative.

Research Paper: ISIS-Turkey List (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-l-phillips/research-paper-isis-turke_b_6128950.html)
Turkey could cut off Islamic State’s supply lines. So why doesn’t it? (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/18/turkey-cut-islamic-state-supply-lines-erdogan-isis)

Those aren't credible evidence; they are speculative allegations. DER.


But flag-waving neo-con chickenhawks are absolutely immune to facts, logic, and consistent principles, so there is no way they will ever acknowledge reality.

There you go again with the stupid strawmen; you're quite full of them aren't you? Where have I advocated the US get involved in the fighting in Syria?? Talk about an immunity from reality; hell, you're not even slightly connected.


They prefer to live in a collectivist fantasy world where the US government can do no wrong and is always truthful and noble.

As opposed to your fantasy suggesting that AmeriKa is to blame for all the worlds’ ills. ::wink wink::

[Truth Detector]

more conspiracy theories ?

bingo!!

[Ethereal]

I have read so many articles like these ones. All consist of personal ideas and conspiracy theories. Please could you copy and paste the "evidence" part or parts ?

I find it ironic that you're accusing me of "conspiracy theories" when you yourself alleged a false flag operation in Paris with no evidence at all. At least my position is backed up by ample documentation and evidence. And the articles are there for you to read. If you don't want to read them, then I'm not going to spoon-feed them to you.

[Truth Detector]

If you hate Assad so much, then feel free to get off your wrinkly, spotted ass and fight alongside the Saudi-funded terrorists who are trying to overthrow his secular government.

Another laughably stupid argument. It's about as lame as defending the Assad regime thinking that it is a better alternative to ISIS.

Hey, why don't you get off your wrinkly, spotted ass and fight alongside the Syrian forces gassing and murdering their own people? DUMB.

[Ethereal]

You love a genocidal maniac? Wow.

I support governments who are fighting ISIS and AQ. Unlike you, I don't want to see Syrian overrun with Sunni terrorists.

[Truth Detector]

So if Turkey is not fighting for democracy and human rights in Syria, then what are they fighting for, exactly?

Turkey isn't fighting for democracy and human rights in Syria; they aren't fighting in Syria at all.. DUH!

[Truth Detector]

I posted articles with ample evidence demonstrating my claims.

You posted a bunch of speculative herbolic BS.

[Truth Detector]

You love a genocidal maniac? Wow.

Yes he does; and he apparently has equal affection for the former KGB autocrat and Iranian pariah state.

[Truth Detector]

I support governments who are fighting ISIS and AQ. Unlike you, I don't want to see Syrian overrun with Sunni terrorists.

Yes, far better they be overrun by Hezbolah. DUH.

[Matty]

Yes he does; and he apparently has equal affection for the former KGB autocrat and Iranian pariah state.


Well, his imaginary girlfriend was Russian, or so she said.

[Ethereal]

Based on your emotional eruptions, it is highly unlikely you even have a grasp on reality.

I am still waiting for this credible information and links to support the idiotic claim that Turkey is aiding and defending ISIS in Syria.

Already posted several times. If you had even the slightest interest in the truth, you would have read them already.


Wrong; you are supporting a despot who is murdering tens of thousands of his own people even using chemical weapons in order to cling to power. You are supporting a pariah nation and a former KGB operative who wish to ensure the despot stays in power.

I support a secular government who protected women and Christians from a bunch of Sunni extremist thugs, most of whom are foreign mercenaries being trained, armed, and funded by Wahhabi scum in Saudi Arabia.


Wrong; I don't support ANY interference in this civil war and would be happy if they all ended up killing each other for another decade.

I don't support Russian interventionism or the Iranian efforts to prop up the Assad regime as their jumping off point to send terrorists into Lebanon and Israel.

I support the idea of other Arab nations taking in the civilians trying to escape the devastation.

I also support the idea that due to the lack of leadership on the part of Obama on this issue and his idiotic "red-line" statement he had no stomach to back up, the situation is becoming more volatile and Russian engagement merely exacerbates it.

But alas, because the AmeriKan sheeple elected this feckless dumb$#@!, and don't have the stomach to support our allies in the region and think we should make the same stupid mistakes we made in WWI, WWII, Korea and Viet Nam, this is where we are; sitting on the sidelines watching a side show become volatile with the possibility of turning into a much larger disaster with nations bordering Syria.

You don't support any intervention, yet you claim we need to "support our allies in the region", allies who are actively intervening in Syria, supporting a bunch of amorphous, Sunni extremists who want to turn Syria into a Saudi-style theocracy.

[SemiteArt]

I find it ironic that you're accusing me of "conspiracy theories" when you yourself alleged a false flag operation in Paris with no evidence at all. At least my position is backed up by ample documentation and evidence. And the articles are there for you to read. If you don't want to read them, then I'm not going to spoon-feed them to you.

The difference, I just share my opinion based on my personal informations I have obtained through my friendships. I dont sumbit my opinions as "facts". You offer your claims/conspiracies with definite sentences, like its a "fact".

[The Xl]

With allies like these....

[Ethereal]

Another laughably stupid argument. It's about as lame as defending the Assad regime thinking that it is a better alternative to ISIS.

To any sane person, the Assad government is far superior to ISIS. The fact that you think Assad and ISIS are equally bad shows how much of a terrorist-lover you really are.


Hey, why don't you get off your wrinkly, spotted ass and fight alongside the Syrian forces gassing and murdering their own people? DUMB.

There is no evidence that the Syrian government used gas against anyone. All the evidence points to the rebels using the gas in order to induce western governments to intervene on their behalf.

UN accuses Syrian rebels of carrying out sarin gas attacks which had been blamed on Assad's troops (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2320223/UN-accuses-Syrian-rebels-carrying-sarin-gas-attacks-blamed-Assads-troops.html)

But as I said, neo-cons are absolutely immune to facts, logic, honesty, and consistency, so that article (which you will just ignore like all the others) is for the edification of honest adults who happen to be reading this exchange and not for the neo-con juveniles who mindlessly regurgitate US government propaganda.

[Ethereal]

Turkey isn't fighting for democracy and human rights in Syria; they aren't fighting in Syria at all.. DUH!

More ignorance and foolishness with no basis in reality.

[The Xl]

I always lol at those who want Assad toppled. We should all know what the inevitable consequence of that would be. Furthermore, how has knocking down leaders worked for us in the recent past?

[Ethereal]

You posted a bunch of speculative herbolic BS.

Nothing speculative or hyperbolic about it. The articles contain copious facts and evidence. You just refuse to address them because your heavily propagandized mind cannot deal with reality.

Research Paper: ISIS-Turkey List (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-l-phillips/research-paper-isis-turke_b_6128950.html)
Turkey could cut off Islamic State’s supply lines. So why doesn’t it? (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/18/turkey-cut-islamic-state-supply-lines-erdogan-isis)

The most obvious fact demonstrating Turkish support for ISIS and groups like them is their constant attempts to impede the most effective anti-ISIS forces in Syria, to wit, the Kurds. Apparently, Turkey is more concerned with crushing Kurdish independence than they are with defeating ISIS. Fancy that.

[Ethereal]

Yes he does; and he apparently has equal affection for the former KGB autocrat and Iranian pariah state.

I support secular governments who fight ISIS and AQ. Any true westerner would. But for some reason, you want to see Assad's secular government overthrown and replaced by Wahhabi Sunnis who will treat women and religious minorities like chattel slaves. Why do you hate America so much?

[Ethereal]

Yes, far better they be overrun by Hezbolah. DUH.

Yes, it would be. Shia militants, unlike their Sunni counterparts, are not launching attack after attack against western civilians inside their own countries. But the US government is allied with Saudi Arabia, the number one supporter of attacks on our country, including 9/11, so you will dutifully overlook and downplay that fact as you demonize a secular government that protected women and Christians from the extremist rabble who polluted their society.

[Ethereal]

Well, his imaginary girlfriend was Russian, or so she said.

Coming from someone who gamed the reputation system and hid behind a sock-puppet for months, this is especially ironic.

But that has nothing to do with the fact that Assad's government was secular, protected Christians and women, and is in a battle to the death with ISIS and AQ. So the question becomes: Why do you want to see a secular government overthrown by ISIS and AQ? Are you a terrorist supporter like Truth Detector? Because it sure seems like you are.

[Ethereal]

The difference, I just share my opinion based on my personal informations I have obtained through my friendships. I dont sumbit my opinions as "facts". You offer your claims/conspiracies with definite sentences, like its a "fact".

It is a fact that Turkey is providing assistance to ISIS. There is ample evidence demonstrating this. I posted a small but compelling portion of it. You refuse to even look at the evidence.

[Ethereal]

I always lol at those who want Assad toppled. We should all know what the inevitable consequence of that would be. Furthermore, how has knocking down leaders worked for us in the recent past?

It's mind-blowing that the same exact people who are directly responsible for the disastrous regime-change in Iraq are calling for the same thing in Syria. I guess creating ISIS wasn't enough for them. They need to create even more anti-western terrorist groups.

[SemiteArt]

The most obvious fact demonstrating Turkish support for ISIS and groups like them is their constant attempts to impede the most effective anti-ISIS forces in Syria, to wit, the Kurds. Apparently, Turkey is more concerned with crushing Kurdish independence than they are with defeating ISIS. Fancy that.


YPG is a terror organization, taking over Arab and Turkomen villages in Syria and killing or forcing people to migrate to create an illegal state at Northern Syria. Their members are mostly consist of PKK terror organization members, which is in the NATO and US terror organizations list. ISIS a terror organization able to seize the biggest Iraqi cities in a few days which is guarded by a professional army, but are they leaving their positions in front of some Syrian Kurdish villagers ? Does this sound logical to you ? ISIS leaving the villages after acting like they fought and lost, is much more logical for me.

[SemiteArt]

It is a fact that Turkey is providing assistance to ISIS. There is ample evidence demonstrating this. I posted a small but compelling portion of it. You refuse to even look at the evidence.

I read your links and I could not see any evidences. This is why I wanted you to show me some examples ? Can you do that please ? Just show me the evidence part, not the whole article or paragraph.

[Matty]

Coming from someone who gamed the reputation system and hid behind a sock-puppet for months, this is especially ironic.

But that has nothing to do with the fact that Assad's government was secular, protected Christians and women, and is in a battle to the death with ISIS and AQ. So the question becomes: Why do you want to see a secular government overthrown by ISIS and AQ? Are you a terrorist supporter like Truth Detector? Because it sure seems like you are.


How many deaths is your current lover Assad responsible for?

[Ethereal]

YPG is a terror organization...

Only according to the gangsters and thugs in the Turkish government. In reality, YPG is the most effective anti-ISIS force in the entire region, and their system of government is democratic, egalitarian, and liberal, the exact opposite of the majoritarian autocracy perpetuated by the wanna-be Sultan Erdoğan.


...taking over Arab and Turkomen villages in Syria and killing or forcing people to migrate to create an illegal state at Northern Syria. Their members are mostly consist of PKK terror organization members, which is in the NATO and US terror organizations list. ISIS a terror organization able to seize the biggest Iraqi cities in a few days which is guarded by a professional army, but are they leaving their positions in front of some Syrian Kurdish villagers ? Does this sound logical to you ? ISIS leaving the villages after acting like they fought and lost, is much more logical for me.

Every people on Earth have the natural right to political independence, and the Kurds are no different. They have spent decades fighting for their rights against the encroachment of authoritarian central governments like the Turks, Syrians, Iranians, and Iraqis. The idea that the Kurds must submit to the political authority of the Turks is outlandish and illiberal in the extreme. If the Turks have a right to self-government and self-determination, then so do the Kurdish people.

[Truth Detector]

To any sane person, the Assad government is far superior to ISIS. The fact that you think Assad and ISIS are equally bad shows how much of a terrorist-lover you really are.

Absurdity; the last refuge for ignorance.


There is no evidence that the Syrian government used gas against anyone. All the evidence points to the rebels using the gas in order to induce western governments to intervene on their behalf.

Yeo; it is all a figment of the United Nations collective minds.

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is brazenly challenging the latest U.S.-led effort to stop him from using chemical weapons, and the Barack Obama administration has yet to say if it will do anything about it.

Two weeks ago, the U.S. got the United Nations Security Council to adopt a resolution calling on the Syrian regime to cease dropping barrel bombs filled with chlorine gas on civilians. U.S. Ambassador to the UN Samantha Power said the resolution, which passed 14-1 and was endorsed by all the permanent members including Russia, “made it crystal clear that the use of chlorine weapons was no less evil than that of chemical weapons.”

U.S. intelligence has established timeline of Syrian chemical attack, officials say
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-administration-lays-groundwork-for-probable-military-strike-against-syria/2013/08/27/538d072e-0f3c-11e3-bdf6-e4fc677d94a1_story.html


But as I said, neo-cons are absolutely immune to facts, logic, honesty, and consistency, so that article (which you will just ignore like all the others) is for the edification of honest adults who happen to be reading this exchange and not for the neo-con juveniles who mindlessly regurgitate US government propaganda.

There you go with the stupid "neocon" BS again; you're quite full of it.

Yeah; I am a HUGE supporter of Obamunism and this Government based on my posts right strawman pontificator?

Dumb. This from the guy supporting despots and pariah nations.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/mcollinknight/Jon%20and%20Stephen%20get%20their%20own%20album/stephen_laughs.gif

[Truth Detector]

Coming from someone who gamed the reputation system and hid behind a sock-puppet for months, this is especially ironic.

But that has nothing to do with the fact that Assad's government was secular, protected Christians and women, and is in a battle to the death with ISIS and AQ. So the question becomes: Why do you want to see a secular government overthrown by ISIS and AQ? Are you a terrorist supporter like Truth Detector? Because it sure seems like you are.

Yep; he really is a protector of women and children isn't he?

Syria's darkest hour: Hundreds of children's bodies piled high after nerve gas attack near Damascus leaves up to 1,300 dead

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2398691/Syrias-darkest-hour-Hundreds-childrens-bodies-piled-high-nerve-gas-attack-near-Damascus-leaves-1-300-dead.html#ixzz3sRXB31tC
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Truth Detector]

It's mind-blowing that the same exact people who are directly responsible for the disastrous regime-change in Iraq are calling for the same thing in Syria. I guess creating ISIS wasn't enough for them. They need to create even more anti-western terrorist groups.

Who is calling for regime change in Syria? More strawmen; you're quite full of them. But what we do know is that you support despots and pariah nations.

[Truth Detector]

Only according to the gangsters and thugs in the Turkish government. In reality, YPG is the most effective anti-ISIS force in the entire region, and their system of government is democratic, egalitarian, and liberal, the exact opposite of the majoritarian autocracy perpetuated by the wanna-be Sultan Erdoğan.

Yep; because the Syrian and Iranian regimes are bereft of tyrannical thugs eh? Dumb.


Every people on Earth have the natural right to political independence, and the Kurds are no different. They have spent decades fighting for their rights against the encroachment of authoritarian central governments like the Turks, Syrians, Iranians, and Iraqis.

Fascinating how this does not extend to the Syrian people. By the way, were you this concerned about the Kurds when Saddam was gassing them? Or was this a matter for Saddam and not the worlds Democracies?


The idea that the Kurds must submit to the political authority of the Turks is outlandish and illiberal in the extreme.

Who in the hell is making these arguments other than you grabbing them out of thin air?


If the Turks have a right to self-government and self-determination, then so do the Kurdish people.

Translation; forget what is happening in Syria, but instead, focus on Kurds in Turkey. So we should support Hezbolah and Syria in an invasion of Turkey?

LMAO.....dumb.

[Ethereal]

I read your links and I could not see any evidences.

Then you are purposely ignoring it. There is no way you could have read those articles and the documentation contained therein and still be unaware of the evidence. It is literally overflowing.


This is why I wanted you to show me some examples ? Can you do that please ? Just show me the evidence part, not the whole article or paragraph.

The examples are in the articles!!! All you need to do is read them! But if you want to play this game, then let's start with the fact that Erdoğan stopped the Kurds from advancing on Jarablus, which is an ISIS stronghold that was being used to resupply Raqqa, the nominal capital of ISIS:

And then there are Erdoğan’s actual, stated positions. Back in August, the YPG, fresh from their victories in Kobani (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/30/kurdish-women-died-kobani-isis-syria) and Gire Spi, were poised to seize Jarablus, the last Isis-held town on the Turkish border (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarabulus) that the terror organisation had been using to resupply its capital in Raqqa with weapons, materials, and recruits – Isis supply lines pass directly through Turkey.

Commentators predicted that with Jarablus gone, Raqqa would soon follow.Erdoğan reacted by declaring Jarablus a “red line” (http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/07/turkey-syria-erdogan-lost-election-want-win-as-army-chief.html): if the Kurds attacked, his forces would intervene militarily – against the YPG. So Jarablus remains in terrorist hands to this day, under de facto Turkish military protection.

Impeding the Kurds in their attempts to retake Jarablus from ISIS is just one example of MANY that demonstrate Turkish defense of ISIS in Syria. All one needs to do is open their eyes if they wish to see.

[Ethereal]

Absurdity; the last refuge for ignorance.

Anyone who supports the overthrow of Assad's secular government by ISIS and AQ terrorists is providing aid and comfort to the same.

[SemiteArt]

Only according to the gangsters and thugs in the Turkish government. In reality, YPG is the most effective anti-ISIS force in the entire region, and their system of government is democratic, egalitarian, and liberal, the exact opposite of the majoritarian autocracy perpetuated by the wanna-be Sultan Erdoğan.

Yes you are right, 65 coalition countries + US + China + Iran + Syria + Cuba + Russia cannot destroy ISIS but Kurdish villagers are the most effective anti-ISIS forces.






Every people on Earth have the natural right to political independence, and the Kurds are no different. They have spent decades fighting for their rights against the encroachment of authoritarian central governments like the Turks, Syrians, Iranians, and Iraqis. The idea that the Kurds must submit to the political authority of the Turks is outlandish and illiberal in the extreme. If the Turks have a right to self-government and self-determination, then so do the Kurdish people.

I am agree with you. This does not mean you can declare a state anywhere where you gained population advantage. Kurds have no history in these countries you mentioned. They just overly proliferated in these regions. They are quite racist and xenophobe too. You cant comfortably live in a Kurdish region if you are not a Kurdish person.

[Truth Detector]

Yes, it would be. Shia militants, unlike their Sunni counterparts, are not launching attack after attack against western civilians inside their own countries.

Only complete fools think supporting Hezbollah is a good idea.


But the US government is allied with Saudi Arabia, the number one supporter of attacks on our country, including 9/11, so you will dutifully overlook and downplay that fact

That is a massive pile of lunatic bile.


as you demonize a secular government that protected women and Christians from the extremist rabble who polluted their society.

Yeah; we shouldn't demonize a tyrannical regime devoted to mass murder of women and children. ::wink wink::

Instead, we should embrace tyrannical regimes and pariah nations sponsoring terror throughout the region.

I am betting you hate Jews too.

[Truth Detector]

Anyone who supports the overthrow of Assad's secular government by ISIS and AQ terrorists is providing aid and comfort to the same.

Yeah, because in loony conspiracy land, supporting pariah nations like Iran, Russia and tyrannical dictators like Assad is the moral high ground. Dumb.

[Ethereal]

Oh no! The ugliest, most worthless piece of excrement on the internet thinks I'm dumb. I'm so devastated!

:rofl:

[Green Arrow]

Yeah, because in loony conspiracy land, supporting pariah nations like Iran, Russia and tyrannical dictators like Assad is the moral high ground. Dumb.

Why is it bad to support them, but totally acceptable to ally with a nation that nearly wiped out the Armenian people and STILL won't admit to it? According to another thread, Turkey just THREATENED Paraguay, another nation, simply because Paraguay dared to acknowledge the existence of the Armenian genocide.

[Mac-7]

Obama Hillary have so mismanaged foreign affairs that we may get drawn into a war with Russia

[Truth Detector]

Oh no! The ugliest, most worthless piece of excrement on the internet thinks I'm dumb. I'm so devastated!

:rofl:

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n617/brockstetson/Good-good-let-the-butthurt-flow-through-you-1.jpg

[Truth Detector]

Why is it bad to support them, but totally acceptable to ally with a nation that nearly wiped out the Armenian people and STILL won't admit to it?

How am I supporting Turkey??? Please help me with this dimwitted stupidity.

But you cannot pretend that Turkey is a key NATO ally in the region regardless of its past. You cannot ignore the brutality of the Assad regime or the FACT that Iran is a pariah nation that supports and promotes terrorism in the region.

Unless of course, in loony conspiracy land, it is better to prop up despots and tyrants than promote representative Governance.


According to another thread, Turkey just THREATENED Paraguay, another nation, simply because Paraguay dared to acknowledge the existence of the Armenian genocide.

The Turkish Government isn't engaged in chemical attacks on their citizens and a massive civil war causing the deaths of tens of thousands and the displacement of millions, or being supported by Pariah nations and terrorist elements either.

[Truth Detector]

Obama Hillary have so mismanaged foreign affairs that we may get drawn into a war with Russia

BUT, things would be so much better propping up the Assad regime and allying with Iran dontchyaknow. LMAO

[SemiteArt]

Then you are purposely ignoring it. There is no way you could have read those articles and the documentation contained therein and still be unaware of the evidence. It is literally overflowing.



The examples are in the articles!!! All you need to do is read them! But if you want to play this game, then let's start with the fact that Erdoğan stopped the Kurds from advancing on Jarablus, which is an ISIS stronghold that was being used to resupply Raqqa, the nominal capital of ISIS:

And then there are Erdoğan’s actual, stated positions. Back in August, the YPG, fresh from their victories in Kobani (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/30/kurdish-women-died-kobani-isis-syria) and Gire Spi, were poised to seize Jarablus, the last Isis-held town on the Turkish border (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarabulus) that the terror organisation had been using to resupply its capital in Raqqa with weapons, materials, and recruits – Isis supply lines pass directly through Turkey.

Commentators predicted that with Jarablus gone, Raqqa would soon follow.Erdoğan reacted by declaring Jarablus a “red line” (http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/07/turkey-syria-erdogan-lost-election-want-win-as-army-chief.html): if the Kurds attacked, his forces would intervene militarily – against the YPG. So Jarablus remains in terrorist hands to this day, under de facto Turkish military protection.

Impeding the Kurds in their attempts to retake Jarablus from ISIS is just one example of MANY that demonstrate Turkish defense of ISIS in Syria. All one needs to do is open their eyes if they wish to see.


Jarabulus is a strategic point between two Kurdish cantons. Kurdish terrorists are trying to unify their cantons and therefore having a line from Iraq to Mediterranean sea. If Turkish govt was suppliying ISIS from this area, can be easily proven by current technology. There are also many journalist or agents dressed like journalist along border region.

This is not a proof, this is your idea mostly based on your imagine power.

[Ethereal]

Jarabulus is a strategic point between two Kurdish cantons. Kurdish terrorists are trying to unify their cantons and therefore having a line from Iraq to Mediterranean sea. If Turkish govt was suppliying ISIS from this area, can be easily proven by current technology. There are also many journalist or agents dressed like journalist along border region.

This is not a proof, this is your idea mostly based on your imagine power.

The Kurds are not terrorists. They are fighting for their natural right to political independence, which the gangsters and thugs in the Turkish government refuse to respect. And I did not say that Turkey was supplying ISIS from Jarablus, I said that Turkey stopped the Kurds from ejecting ISIS from Jarablus, which helps ISIS. Clearly, then, Turkish gangsters like Erdoğan are more concerned with crushing Kurdish rights than they are with stopping ISIS in Syria.

[Green Arrow]

BUT, things would be so much better propping up the Assad regime and allying with Iran dontchyaknow. LMAO

Actually, yes, keeping Assad in power is a very good thing from a strategic standpoint. How does it help the fight against ISIL to help ISIL depose Assad and create yet another power vacuum for ISIL to fill?

[SemiteArt]

The Kurds are not terrorists. They are fighting for their natural right to political independence, which the gangsters and thugs in the Turkish government refuse to respect. And I did not say that Turkey was supplying ISIS from Jarablus, I said that Turkey stopped the Kurds from ejecting ISIS from Jarablus, which helps ISIS. Clearly, then, Turkish gangsters like Erdoğan are more concerned with crushing Kurdish rights than they are with stopping ISIS in Syria.

They are not but there are terrorist groups in them. Trying to invade lands which is not belong to you, is not a political right, there is no such a right given anyone. For example one of their canton named Kobane is an old Arab or Armenian city, not Kurdish. Today they claim it belongs to them because they multiplied by population. Give the Harlem to black people in US, because they multiplied there in time and mostly consist of black people. Same logic.

[Green Arrow]

How am I supporting Turkey??? Please help me with this dimwitted stupidity.

I'm sorry, I can't find my crayons to make this easier for you. I didn't say YOU supported Turkey.

Now that your comprehension issues have been addressed, answer the question.


But you cannot pretend that Turkey is a key NATO ally in the region regardless of its past.

That's true, I can't pretend they are a key ally in the region, because they aren't.

Also, I was talking about their present, not their past.


You cannot ignore the brutality of the Assad regime or the FACT that Iran is a pariah nation that supports and promotes terrorism in the region.

Unless of course, in loony conspiracy land, it is better to prop up despots and tyrants than promote representative Governance.

In the middle east, it is better. Every time we have deposed a strongman like Assad in the region, it has caused greater instability and a power vacuum that has been filled by terrorists. Every time.


The Turkish Government isn't engaged in chemical attacks on their citizens and a massive civil war causing the deaths of tens of thousands and the displacement of millions, or being supported by Pariah nations and terrorist elements either.

Assad didn't cause the civil war, ISIL and Al Qaeda did.

[Mac-7]

BUT, things would be so much better propping up the Assad regime and allying with Iran dontchyaknow. LMAO

Yes, obumer's buddies the mad mullahs of terhan

no wonder putin is running roughshod in syria

[Peter1469]

why is turkey an ally, exactly? They are aiding isil and murdering anti-isil kurdish forces.

nato

[SemiteArt]

I think Russia will apologize from Turkey and they will claim that it was a radar failure of Russian Airforces.

[Green Arrow]

nato

I get that, my question is why we allowed them in NATO and why we haven't kicked them out.

[Peter1469]

How many deaths is your current lover Assad responsible for?

Does it matter?

Assad is a sovereign.

[SemiteArt]

Russia and Assad planning to attack Turkomen villages much more severe after plane event. Russian planes keep bombing the areas hundreds of miles away from ISIS. The purporse is to ease Kurdish terror groups to unify cantons and isolating the connection between Turkey and ME.

[exotix]

Just In

One of Russian Pilots Safe

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-pilot-safe-after-jet-shot-down-syria-turkey-border-n469361

[SemiteArt]

Today hundreds of Russian sites been hacked in one hour including Russian Central Bank by a Turkish hacker and Russian State Websites been warned about vulnerabilities.

[William]

So have I got this right? A Russian Su-24 'Fencer' ground attack aircraft strayed into Turkish airspace for a grand total of 17 seconds, and was shot down by Turkish F-16s? And there are people on here saying that the Turks were within their rights to do that? That doesn't seem very fair to me.

I know very little about Russia or Turkey, but I wonder if Turkey didn't have NATO to hide behind, would it have done the same thing? Like the Russian T-90s could be rolling down the main street of Ankara in a few days time if Turkey didn't have NATOs skirts to hide behind. :grin:

I think it was a very stupid act by the Turks, and it could cause problems for all NATO members cos Putin can be a total nutter at times. :shocked:

[SemiteArt]

So have I got this right? A Russian Su-24 'Fencer' ground attack aircraft strayed into Turkish airspace for a grand total of 17 seconds, and was shot down by Turkish F-16s? And there are people on here saying that the Turks were within their rights to do that? That doesn't seem very fair to me.

I know very little about Russia or Turkey, but I wonder if Turkey didn't have NATO to hide behind, would it have done the same thing? Like the Russian T-90s could be rolling down the main street of Ankara in a few days time if Turkey didn't have NATOs skirts to hide behind. :grin:

I think it was a very stupid act by the Turks, and it could cause problems for all NATO members cos Putin can be a total nutter at times. :shocked:


Turkey do not trust NATO at all.

[Cigar]

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/imgs/2015/151124-obama-to-pardon-turkey-gop-candidates-react.jpg

[exotix]

Today

Why Russia-Turkey Spat Won't Start World War III

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/analysis-why-russia-turkey-spat-wont-start-world-war-iii-n469416

The downing of a Russian warplane (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-pilot-safe-after-jet-shot-down-syria-turkey-border-n469361) that set off frantic fearmongering about a potential World War III appears to have been downgraded to a diplomatic ding.

Here's why:

An Attack on One NATO Member ...

Analysts say that's partly because of a bigger and more pressing matter: Syria.

What Will NATO Do ?

So That's It ?

How Bad Could It Be ?

So What Happens Now ?



Can I get a World War Duhbya III ?

http://i68.tinypic.com/2i1pmic.jpg

[Truth Detector]

I think Russia will apologize from Turkey and they will claim that it was a radar failure of Russian Airforces.


Just In

One of Russian Pilots Safe

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-pilot-safe-after-jet-shot-down-syria-turkey-border-n469361

Putin sends air defense missiles to Syria to deter Turkey

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/11/25/putin-sends-air-defense-missiles-to-syria-to-deter-turkey/21272671/?icid=maing-grid7%7Chtmlws-sb-bb%7Cdl6%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D-1976677091

[Truth Detector]

So have I got this right? A Russian Su-24 'Fencer' ground attack aircraft strayed into Turkish airspace for a grand total of 17 seconds, and was shot down by Turkish F-16s? And there are people on here saying that the Turks were within their rights to do that? That doesn't seem very fair to me.

I know very little about Russia or Turkey, but I wonder if Turkey didn't have NATO to hide behind, would it have done the same thing? Like the Russian T-90s could be rolling down the main street of Ankara in a few days time if Turkey didn't have NATOs skirts to hide behind. :grin:

I think it was a very stupid act by the Turks, and it could cause problems for all NATO members cos Putin can be a total nutter at times. :shocked:

Russia shot down a Korean civilian Airliner for wandering into their airspace; I didn't see a whole lot of repercussions or hand wringing over that incident.

Korean Air Lines Flight 007
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

[Peter1469]

So have I got this right? A Russian Su-24 'Fencer' ground attack aircraft strayed into Turkish airspace for a grand total of 17 seconds, and was shot down by Turkish F-16s? And there are people on here saying that the Turks were within their rights to do that? That doesn't seem very fair to me.

I know very little about Russia or Turkey, but I wonder if Turkey didn't have NATO to hide behind, would it have done the same thing? Like the Russian T-90s could be rolling down the main street of Ankara in a few days time if Turkey didn't have NATOs skirts to hide behind. :grin:

I think it was a very stupid act by the Turks, and it could cause problems for all NATO members cos Putin can be a total nutter at times. :shocked:

Life isn't fair. But this was a bad move by the Turks.

[Peter1469]

Some of the posts here by Cigar and Exo are awful.

[SemiteArt]

Putin sends air defense missiles to Syria to deter Turkey

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/11/25/putin-sends-air-defense-missiles-to-syria-to-deter-turkey/21272671/?icid=maing-grid7|htmlws-sb-bb|dl6|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D-1976677091


Putin keeps playing with fire. Russians going to have serious consequences if they keep behaving such selfish and foolish.

[Green Arrow]

Putin keeps playing with fire. Russians going to have serious consequences if they keep behaving such selfish and foolish.

Somehow, I doubt Turkey could beat Russia in a fight. The only way you guys would win a war with Russia is if you called in NATO to fight your battles for you.

[donttread]

Somehow, I doubt Turkey could beat Russia in a fight. The only way you guys would win a war with Russia is if you called in NATO to fight your battles for you.

Or if the Russians were dumb enough to occupy and nation build. But seriously, who would be that stupid?

[Common Sense]

Somehow, I doubt Turkey could beat Russia in a fight. The only way you guys would win a war with Russia is if you called in NATO to fight your battles for you.

Oh they certainly couldn't beat Russia in a fight, however they aren't a tiny military.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=russia&country2=turkey&Submit=COMPARE

[SemiteArt]

Somehow, I doubt Turkey could beat Russia in a fight. The only way you guys would win a war with Russia is if you called in NATO to fight your battles for you.

Please do not personalize my posts, I am not Turk. Discuss my idea, not my personality.

[SemiteArt]

Oh they certainly couldn't beat Russia in a fight, however they aren't a tiny military.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=russia&country2=turkey&Submit=COMPARE

This is a huge mistake comparing two armies based on some websites or documents. Turkey is not kidding and this makes me quite worried. Russia should step back if they dont want to face with more surprises. Russian planes intentionally violated Turkish air space to challenge Turkey and to show them Russia is the boss but we currently see who is the boss. Russian media is making incredible childish and wicked news after the event. All the hate within them against Muslims and against especially Turks is emerging. Globalists could not interfere with Russians in Ukraine and Georgia but now they dragging Russia into the swamp in Syria. The rulers of Russia behave so old fashioned. They are fooling Putin and Putin thinks himself as the invincible mafia boss of the World. They thought that Turkey could do anything to Israel in Mavi Marmara event and still cant do anything. But he did not know that Turkey was completed all preparations to shot and destroy Israel but Hillary Clinton convinced the Turkish prime minister not to shot Israel after intensive efforts.
Putin is about the perform same mistakes they did in Afghanistan. He make a great mistake by underestimating one of the World's oldest nations and a warrior nation.

[Green Arrow]

Oh they certainly couldn't beat Russia in a fight, however they aren't a tiny military.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=russia&country2=turkey&Submit=COMPARE

Their military is impressive for the region, but they'd be toast if they went up against the U.S. or Europe.

[Green Arrow]

That should say "the U.S. or Russia," not Europe. The militaries of the various countries of Europe aren't what they used to be.

[SemiteArt]

Their military is impressive for the region, but they'd be toast if they went up against the U.S. or Europe.

Think twice. "The World is biggest than five" is the saying of Turkish president. He challenges World's most powerful 5 countries. What kind of a motivation makes him such daring ? Appearently he trust his army so much, has no other explanations.

[Green Arrow]

Think twice. "The World is biggest than five" is the saying of Turkish president. He challenges World's most powerful 5 countries. What kind of a motivation makes him such daring ? Appearently he trust his army so much, has no other explanations.

I thought twice, thrice, and frice, doesn't change the facts.

[SemiteArt]

I thought twice, thrice, and frice, doesn't change the facts.


Afghanistan was also a fact, Vietnam was another fact, Iraq too...

[OGIS]

*update*

Turkmen forces now say they shot to death pilots as they parachuted to ground

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/turkey-downs-russian-warplane-near-syria-border-moscow-denies-airspace-violation/ar-BBnnnBR?ocid=iehp

"A deputy commander of rebel Turkmen forces in Syria said his men shot both pilots dead as they came down."

You do not do this. Ever. It is what is known as a "dick move" and deserves a totally out of proportion response.

[OGIS]

Nice to see our great FP leadership has brought us one more step to World War 3.

FP?

[OGIS]

We should expel Turkey from NATO. Tell them they are too far from the Atlantic.

I agree with that. Plus, of course, that the Turks have been huge, uncivilized dicks for at least the last century (Armenian Genocide for one).

And this would be a perfect opportunity for Obama to reach out to Putin. It would be, to say the least, fascinating, were the US and Russia to open a giant can of whup-ass on these people.

Dated and a bit of a reach (and silly), but:

http://www.chronology.org/grafix/jp-emblem2.gif

I mean, if we are gonna be an Evil Empire we should at least do it up right. The mess in the Middle East would be the perfect excuse.

Rep for the first person who identifies the above graphic.

[OGIS]

Dumb.

Still waiting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf

http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...-the-jihad-war

[OGIS]

Nothing about this Administration suggests leadership.

Nothing about your posts suggest truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf

http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...-the-jihad-war

[OGIS]

He was once again caught off guard??? Say it isn't so! Still nothing from him regarding this event. They're still struggling with how to spin this as a failure of the Republicans in Congress.

And still nothing from you regarding your being caught LYING about Obama withdrawing troops from Iraq.

Originally Posted by OGIS
So are you telling me that Bush DID NOT sign an agreement with Iraq to withdraw by a certain date? YES or NO, son. Yes or no.

Originally Posted by Truth Detector
Are you telling me Bush signed an agreement with a date certain witdrawal date? Show it to me.

"The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf

http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...-the-jihad-war

[OGIS]

Ironic using an F-16. Cartoonists, like liberals, are poorly informed.

Is that your excuse for lying?

Originally Posted by OGIS
So are you telling me that Bush DID NOT sign an agreement with Iraq to withdraw by a certain date? YES or NO, son. Yes or no.

Originally Posted by Truth Detector
Are you telling me Bush signed an agreement with a date certain witdrawal date? Show it to me.

"The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf

http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...-the-jihad-war

[OGIS]

Dumb.


Why?


Ironic that it isn't obvious to you.

Is it obvious to you that you lied?

Originally Posted by OGIS
So are you telling me that Bush DID NOT sign an agreement with Iraq to withdraw by a certain date? YES or NO, son. Yes or no.

Originally Posted by Truth Detector
Are you telling me Bush signed an agreement with a date certain witdrawal date? Show it to me.

"The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf

http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...-the-jihad-war

[OGIS]

So you support Assad's brutal regime? The US would be benefitted by allying itself with a nation accused of gassing its own citizens? Does the UN no longer care?

I thought ISIS was JV? What about that red line? It was another Obama lie?

What about your lies?

Originally Posted by OGIS
So are you telling me that Bush DID NOT sign an agreement with Iraq to withdraw by a certain date? YES or NO, son. Yes or no.

Originally Posted by Truth Detector
Are you telling me Bush signed an agreement with a date certain witdrawal date? Show it to me.

"The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf

http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...-the-jihad-war

[OGIS]

if romney were president this would not have happened

He would have put them all in binders.

[OGIS]

You have no right to say that about anyone's posts, given that this is the best you can do.

Particularly since he is such a liar.

[OGIS]

I said- "that side of the world". I never said Syria was part of Russia. Wow. You sure can make **** up.

I can't decide where he is a total moron or a Master Troll.

[OGIS]

There are two group of Turkish people. One side is Kemalists. These are the people who support M.K. Ataturk the practitioner of republic form of government. These people supports any kind of Western movements. They usually have an inferiority complex about their country, %20 of total population. Another part is Ottoman supporters, those people mostly support the current government. They do not like Western or EU and see themselves superior than Western, these people are about 70-75 % of the total population. Being a member for EU is something based on the relationship between state interests, have nothing with people.

Further, these attitudes are rooted in ancient history and not easily replaced.

Just as much of what Iran does is predicated on fond memories of the Persian Empire, the Turks remember Istanbul and the Ottoman Empire (pale reflections of Constantinople and the Eastern Roman Empire).

Neither of them were particularly nice people.

[OGIS]

Link to support this claim?

Will you ignore any link he gives like you have ignored these links that prove you are a liar?

Originally Posted by OGIS
So are you telling me that Bush DID NOT sign an agreement with Iraq to withdraw by a certain date? YES or NO, son. Yes or no.

Originally Posted by Truth Detector
Are you telling me Bush signed an agreement with a date certain witdrawal date? Show it to me.

"The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf

http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...-the-jihad-war

[OGIS]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_vision

http://www.businessinsider.com/putin-proposes-new-common-currency-among-former-soviet-states-to-replace-the-dollar-2015-9

He will, of course, ignore those links, just as the little liar ignored mine.

[OGIS]

So the Turks are liars and the Russians are telling the truth? LMAO

Well, we all know that YOU are a liar... and a pu55y for not acknowledging that you got caught.

Originally Posted by OGIS
So are you telling me that Bush DID NOT sign an agreement with Iraq to withdraw by a certain date? YES or NO, son. Yes or no.

Originally Posted by Truth Detector
Are you telling me Bush signed an agreement with a date certain witdrawal date? Show it to me.

"The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf

http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...-the-jihad-war

[OGIS]

An impossibility!

Another impossibility!

The impossibility is believing anything that "Truth" Detector says on this forum.

[OGIS]

I don't think we still have enough information to support anyone in this story yet.

Everyone here certainly has enough information to know that you lie like a rug.

Originally Posted by OGIS
So are you telling me that Bush DID NOT sign an agreement with Iraq to withdraw by a certain date? YES or NO, son. Yes or no.

Originally Posted by Truth Detector
Are you telling me Bush signed an agreement with a date certain witdrawal date? Show it to me.

"The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf

http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...-the-jihad-war

[OGIS]

They are part of NATO; the claims they are aiding and abetting ISIS are highly speculative and do not merit a lot of credibility.

Neither do your posts here.

Originally Posted by OGIS
So are you telling me that Bush DID NOT sign an agreement with Iraq to withdraw by a certain date? YES or NO, son. Yes or no.

Originally Posted by Truth Detector
Are you telling me Bush signed an agreement with a date certain witdrawal date? Show it to me.

"The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf

http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...-the-jihad-war

[Beevee]

Nothing about this Administration suggests leadership.

So finally an American admits that the euphemism 'The leader of the free world" is merely for home consumption.

[OGIS]

It's mind-blowing that the same exact people who are directly responsible for the disastrous regime-change in Iraq are calling for the same thing in Syria. I guess creating ISIS wasn't enough for them. They need to create even more anti-western terrorist groups.

Halliburton and Boeing need a more profitable bottom line. You can't get a really good war machine unless the opposition has some gravitas.

[OGIS]

Oh no! The ugliest, most worthless piece of [LYING] excrement on the internet thinks I'm dumb. I'm so devastated!

:rofl:

[OGIS]

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n617/brockstetson/Good-good-let-the-butthurt-flow-through-you-1.jpg

Stop lying.

[OGIS]

BUT, things would be so much better propping up the Assad regime and allying with Iran dontchyaknow. LMAO

Says the lying liar.

[OGIS]

I'm sorry, I can't find my crayons to make this easier for you. I didn't say YOU supported Turkey.

Now that your comprehension issues have been addressed, answer the question.



That's true, I can't pretend they are a key ally in the region, because they aren't.

Also, I was talking about their present, not their past.



In the middle east, it is better. Every time we have deposed a strongman like Assad in the region, it has caused greater instability and a power vacuum that has been filled by terrorists. Every time.



Assad didn't cause the civil war, ISIL and Al Qaeda did.

Why do you bother arguing with the lying liar?

[OGIS]

So have I got this right? A Russian Su-24 'Fencer' ground attack aircraft strayed into Turkish airspace for a grand total of 17 seconds, and was shot down by Turkish F-16s? And there are people on here saying that the Turks were within their rights to do that? That doesn't seem very fair to me.

I know very little about Russia or Turkey, but I wonder if Turkey didn't have NATO to hide behind, would it have done the same thing? Like the Russian T-90s could be rolling down the main street of Ankara in a few days time if Turkey didn't have NATOs skirts to hide behind. :grin:

I think it was a very stupid act by the Turks, and it could cause problems for all NATO members cos Putin can be a total nutter at times. :shocked:

Please don't get a swelled head over this, but it is terrifying how spot on your analysis is.

[OGIS]

Nothing about this Administration suggests leadership.

Nothing about your posts - and running away like a little girl - suggests telling the truth.

[SemiteArt]

Turkey placed new production signal mixers in Syrian border.

Russian airforces shot Assad forces by mistake.