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Cigar
11-25-2015, 11:51 AM
Source: Reuters
Markets | Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:38am EST
U.S. jobless claims fall more than expected

WASHINGTON

Nov 25 - The number of Americans filing for unemployment benefits fell more than expected last week, drifting back to near 42-year lows as labor market conditions continue to tighten.

Initial claims for state unemployment benefits declined 12,000 to a seasonally adjusted 260,000 for the week ended Nov. 21, the Labor Department said on Wednesday.

The prior week's claims were revised to show 1,000 more applications received than previously reported. Claims have now held below the 300,000 threshold for 38 consecutive weeks, the longest stretch in years, and remain close to levels last seen in the early 1970s. Claims below this level are usually associated with a healthy jobs market.

Economists polled by Reuters had forecast claims dipping to 270,000 last week. A Labor Department analyst said there were no special factors influencing the data and only claims for Louisiana had been estimated.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/25/us-unemployment-usa-idUSKBN0TE1N120151125
(http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/25/us-unemployment-usa-idUSKBN0TE1N120151125)


Sorry :cry:

zelmo1234
11-25-2015, 11:52 AM
Good news, Hopefully the worker participation rates will begin to rise

Cigar
11-25-2015, 11:54 AM
Good news, Hopefully the worker participation rates will begin to rise

There's nothing The Federal Government can do to Forcibly make people who don't want to work, to look for work.

zelmo1234
11-25-2015, 11:57 AM
There's nothing The Federal Government can do to Forcibly make people who don't want to work, to look for work.

sure they can stop paying the extended unemployment and put the work requirement back into the welfare system. That would be really easy.

Cigar
11-25-2015, 11:59 AM
sure they can stop paying the extended unemployment and put the work requirement back into the welfare system. That would be really easy.

They did in Illinois back in 2012, not sure what your local Governor did.

Ravens Fan
11-25-2015, 12:01 PM
There's nothing The Federal Government can do to Forcibly make people who don't want to work, to look for work.

Except that is not the reason the worker participation rate has dropped so much. You can only collect unemployment for so long until you run out of benefits. At that point, even though you are still looking for work that simply isn't there, you are not counted as "unemployed". But you knew that, right?

Hopefully, if the numbers given by this administration are anywhere near the reality, those who aren't on the official count can start finding work too.

Cigar
11-25-2015, 12:08 PM
Except that is not the reason the worker participation rate has dropped so much. You can only collect unemployment for so long until you run out of benefits. At that point, even though you are still looking for work that simply isn't there, you are not counted as "unemployed". But you knew that, right?

Hopefully, if the numbers given by this administration are anywhere near the reality, those who aren't on the official count can start finding work too.

Ok ... so ... hasn't that always been the case?

Why did it become a big deal, this country didn't change the way they report unemployment 7 years ago.

Ravens Fan
11-25-2015, 12:18 PM
Ok ... so ... hasn't that always been the case?

As far as I know it has.


Why did it become a big deal, this country didn't change the way they report unemployment 7 years ago.

It became a big deal when this country started having record numbers of people dropping from the worker participation roles, at the same time as the administration was claiming that unemployment was dropping. It is a dishonest way of claiming the economy is recovering when the general public knows better.

Truth Detector
11-25-2015, 12:26 PM
Yep; nothing like counting part time jobs as being employed or ignoring discouraged and non-participants in the reported unemployment figures to make this laggard economy look even slightly better.

Cigar
11-25-2015, 12:26 PM
As far as I know it has.



It became a big deal when this country started having record numbers of people dropping from the worker participation roles, at the same time as the administration was claiming that unemployment was dropping. It is a dishonest way of claiming the economy is recovering when the general public knows better.

What do you suggest or are you just complaining ...

Cigar
11-25-2015, 12:26 PM
Yep; nothing like counting part time jobs as being employed or ignoring discouraged and non-participants in the reported unemployment figures to make this laggard economy look even slightly better.

Maybe we should send in the Military

Ravens Fan
11-25-2015, 12:29 PM
What do you suggest or are you just complaining ...

Actually, I was answering the 2 questions you asked me.

My suggestion though, would be for this administration to be more transparent... you know, like we were promised?

TrueBlue
11-25-2015, 01:02 PM
That is Great News! :)

leekohler2
11-25-2015, 01:10 PM
Except that is not the reason the worker participation rate has dropped so much. You can only collect unemployment for so long until you run out of benefits. At that point, even though you are still looking for work that simply isn't there, you are not counted as "unemployed". But you knew that, right?

Hopefully, if the numbers given by this administration are anywhere near the reality, those who aren't on the official count can start finding work too.

Sorry, but if you go a year on unemployment and still can't get a job, that's on you. It's time to make some changes. The one and only time I was laid off was a few years ago, got a job in a month- making about $10,000 more than my previous job. At some point personal responsibility has to come into the equation.

I hear a lot about personal responsibility from conservatives until it comes to unemployment numbers.

Ravens Fan
11-25-2015, 01:22 PM
Sorry, but if you go a year on unemployment and still can't get a job, that's on you. It's time to make some changes. The one and only time I was laid off was a few years ago, got a job in a month- making about $10,000 more than my previous job. At some point personal responsibility has to come into the equation.

Unemployment compensation does not generally last a full year.

In todays market, you are literally competing against tens if not hundreds of other job seekers no matter where you go. Around here you have to go through a background check and drug test just to work at McDonald's. Not to mention that many places have decided to do more with less (employees).

I too have never had a problem finding a job, my resume is pretty awesome. But just this past year, I have been over qualified for many of the jobs I applied to, or there was just someone else with more relevant experience. The market has changed considerably, which has prompted me to accept work I normally wouldn't do, for less money, and work on opening my own business. My point being, that using that wide brush is not very effective when discussing those who "dropped out" of the workforce.

zelmo1234
11-25-2015, 01:30 PM
Ok ... so ... hasn't that always been the case?

Why did it become a big deal, this country didn't change the way they report unemployment 7 years ago.

I don't think that the way the numbers are calculated are an issue at all.

The fact that we are back to 1976 levels in worker participation is what is a big deal, It shows that the economy is not creating jobs.

zelmo1234
11-25-2015, 01:37 PM
What do you suggest or are you just complaining ...

Oh!, Oh! Oh! pick me!!!!!

Enterprise zones in the areas of the country with the Highest levels of unemployment.

Returning the work requirement to the Welfare system

Cracking down on illegal immigration

lowering the corporate tax rates so we are on an even playing field with the rest of the world

Tax deductions for hiring new full time employee's

drop the employer mandate in Obamacare

That should get the ball rolling a little

leekohler2
11-25-2015, 01:37 PM
Unemployment compensation does not generally last a full year.

In todays market, you are literally competing against tens if not hundreds of other job seekers no matter where you go. Around here you have to go through a background check and drug test just to work at McDonald's. Not to mention that many places have decided to do more with less (employees).

I too have never had a problem finding a job, my resume is pretty awesome. But just this past year, I have been over qualified for many of the jobs I applied to, or there was just someone else with more relevant experience. The market has changed considerably, which has prompted me to accept work I normally wouldn't do, for less money, and work on opening my own business. My point being, that using that wide brush is not very effective when discussing those who "dropped out" of the workforce.

Fair enough, but it sounds like you're taking responsibility for yourself.

Just an example of what I mean:

I had a roommate who was laid off from his university admin job due to advances in computers. His whole office was closed because students could do what his office did online at that point. This was a few months after 9/11.

So what did he do? Looked for the same job at different universities. I'm not even kidding. He spent a year trying to find the same job he'd been doing. Of course, it had been eliminated everywhere. Instead of making a change, he kept banging his head against the wall and became very bitter, blaming Bush and the GOP for his personal situation. As you can imagine, listening to him complain every day while doing nothing to change, got very difficult to live with. I finally got tired of hearing him complain and told him that at this point, it wasn't George Bush's fault he did not have a job. I told him he needed to make some changes. It fell on deaf ears.

At that time, you could get unemployment for a year. He ran it out. A friend of mine finally got him a job in a coat check in a restaurant. I'm sure there are plenty more people just like him.

zelmo1234
11-25-2015, 01:43 PM
Sorry, but if you go a year on unemployment and still can't get a job, that's on you. It's time to make some changes. The one and only time I was laid off was a few years ago, got a job in a month- making about $10,000 more than my previous job. At some point personal responsibility has to come into the equation.

I hear a lot about personal responsibility from conservatives until it comes to unemployment numbers.

It is not the GOP that wants more taxes, has the extensions still on unemployment even though the numbers have dropped below the 6% level. The GOP did not drop the work requirement for Welfare, make it easier to get on disability. None of that belongs to the GOP

Peter1469
11-25-2015, 01:46 PM
There's nothing The Federal Government can do to Forcibly make people who don't want to work, to look for work.

Stop paying welfare. They will go to work.

leekohler2
11-25-2015, 01:58 PM
Stop paying welfare. They will go to work.

You're talking about a different situation. Some would go to work, but an equal or larger amount would turn to crime. That's not what we want either.

Ravens Fan
11-25-2015, 02:04 PM
Fair enough, but it sounds like you're taking responsibility for yourself.

Just an example of what I mean:

I had a roommate who was laid off from his university admin job due to advances is computers. His whole office was closed because students could do what his office did online at that point. This was a few months after 9/11.

So what did he do? Looked for the same job at different universities. I'm not even kidding. He spent a year trying to find the same job he'd been doing. Of course, it had been eliminated everywhere. Instead of making a change, he kept banging his head against the wall and became very bitter, blaming Bush and the GOP for his personal situation. As you can imagine, listening to him complain every day while doing nothing to change, got very difficult to live with. I finally got tired of hearing him complain and told him that at this point, it wasn't George Bush's fault he did not have a job. I told he needed to make some changes. It fell on deaf ears.

At that time, you could get unemployment for a year. He ran it out. A friend of mine finally got him a job in a coat check in a restaurant. I'm sure there are plenty more people just like him.

That could be true, especially in older people who have done the same thing their whole lives and just don't know anything else. I know a few people that just expect jobs to be handed to them too.

In my case, I am not scared to start over from the bottom and work my way up, or to take chances. I like to make my own luck, but not everyone is willing nor able to do that.

With the way the job market has become though, it is too easy for those who are gainfully employed to just call people lazy, when in many cases they are doing everything they can to get something that can at least pay the bills. I think that there are many factors that lead to the problems we have now, and some common sense solutions are needed, beyond just extending unemployment or demonizing those still searching.

@Zelmo's post above hit on a few of the solutions that I agree with.

leekohler2
11-25-2015, 02:08 PM
That could be true, especially in older people who have done the same thing their whole lives and just don't know anything else. I know a few people that just expect jobs to be handed to them too.

In my case, I am not scared to start over from the bottom and work my way up, or to take chances. I like to make my own luck, but not everyone is willing nor able to do that.

With the way the job market has become though, it is too easy for those who are gainfully employed to just call people lazy, when in many cases they are doing everything they can to get something that can at least pay the bills. I think that there are many factors that lead to the problems we have now, and some common sense solutions are needed, beyond just extending unemployment or demonizing those still searching.

@Zelmo's post above hit on a few of the solutions that I agree with.

Of course you are correct. However, simply blaming the government is not fair either. I would like to see job retraining options available with unemployment benefits, for example. I think that would be a massive help.

I do not read zelmo's posts as I have him on ignore, so I will have to trust you on that last sentence.

Truth Detector
11-25-2015, 02:16 PM
Maybe we should send in the Military

Maybe you can stop being absurd?

Ravens Fan
11-25-2015, 02:28 PM
Of course you are correct. However, simply blaming the government is not fair either. I would like to see job retraining options available with unemployment benefits, for example. I think that would be a massive help.

I totally agree. The government is neither the cause nor the correction for all that ails us. I think that we need to take a serious look at how to get people qualified for the jobs that are available, and how to get employers onboard with it too. I'm sorry, but when you can't get a job flipping burgers because you got caught with a dime bag of weed 10 years ago, something's wrong. (not my situation, just an example)


I do not read zelmo's posts as I have him on ignore, so I will have to trust you on that last sentence.
Zelmo is a good guy. A little rough around the edges sometimes, but he has been a good source of advise for me personally, especially as I plan my own future.

nic34
11-25-2015, 02:36 PM
Ok ... so ... hasn't that always been the case?

Why did it become a big deal, this country didn't change the way they report unemployment 7 years ago.

Unemployment and Employment stats are relative....

Employment Rates and Unemployment Rates

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/pdf/coe_cbc.pdf

Cigar
11-25-2015, 02:38 PM
This Thread is about the Millions of Americans who looked for and found work during the Record 68 consecutive months :grin:

If you like, you can start a thread on American who freely chose Retirement

Ravens Fan
11-25-2015, 02:42 PM
This Thread is about the Millions of Americans who looked for and found work during the Record 68 consecutive months :grin:

If you like, you can start a thread on American who freely chose Retirement

Could you please show us where anybody has said anything about those who chose to retire? We have been discussing the OP about the jobless claims dropping, and why.

leekohler2
11-25-2015, 02:43 PM
I totally agree. The government is neither the cause nor the correction for all that ails us. I think that we need to take a serious look at how to get people qualified for the jobs that are available, and how to get employers onboard with it too. I'm sorry, but when you can't get a job flipping burgers because you got caught with a dime bag of weed 10 years ago, something's wrong. (not my situation, just an example)

I could not agree with you more.


Zelmo is a good guy. A little rough around the edges sometimes, but he has been a good source of advise for me personally, especially as I plan my own future.

Apparently, that goodwill only extends to certain people. But I will say no more.

Cigar
11-25-2015, 02:48 PM
Could you please show us where anybody has said anything about those who chose to retire? We have been discussing the OP about the jobless claims dropping, and why.

Do you personally know any of these people who don't want to look for work? :laugh:

Ravens Fan
11-25-2015, 02:52 PM
Do you personally know any of these people who don't want to look for work? :laugh:

Not many. I do know many who are still trying to find good work, that have settled for part time, underpaying jobs, just to get by. Your hero likes to ignore the details, but those living through it do not.

Cigar
11-25-2015, 03:04 PM
Not many. I do know many who are still trying to find good work, that have settled for part time, underpaying jobs, just to get by. Your hero likes to ignore the details, but those living through it do not.

What Hero ... ?

I also know people who have looked and couldn't find work.

I suggested several options ...

Possibly their skills are not up to date
Possibly their location needs to change
Possibly they're not trying hard enough

... I really can't explain it, because I've never settled.

Some people excel when the going get difficult ... that's the different between Hero's and people who settle.

IMO

Ravens Fan
11-25-2015, 03:26 PM
What Hero ... ?

You know who I am talking about, Cigar. Lol.


I also know people who have looked and couldn't find work.

I suggested several options ...

Possibly their skills are not up to date
Possibly their location needs to change
Possibly they're not trying hard enough

Very true, those possibilities can be part of the problem.


... I really can't explain it, because I've never settled.

You have been fortunate enough not to be in a position to have to settle. Unfortunantly the bills do not stop coming in just because the income does...



Some people excel when the going get difficult ... that's the different between Hero's and people who settle. IMO

I don't think that holding out for the perfect job makes one a hero.

Cigar
11-25-2015, 03:30 PM
You know who I am talking about, Cigar. Lol.



Very true, those possibilities can be part of the problem.



You have been fortunate enough not to be in a position to have to settle. Unfortunantly the bills do not stop coming in just because the income does...




I don't think that holding out for the perfect job makes one a hero.

It's not called Fortune ... it's called Admission ... I don't leave anything up to fortune or place myself in that position.

If I lost every client I have today, I'd simply find more or retire, but I plan not to fail.

Ravens Fan
11-25-2015, 03:35 PM
It's not called Fortune ... it's called Admission ... I don't leave anything up to fortune or place myself in that position.

If I lost every client I have today, I'd simply find more or retire, but I plan not to fail.

I understand your point, but life has a funny way of pulling the rug out from beneath you when you least expect it. I have been using that as a motivator to put myself into a position where I am prepared for whatever happens, so I don't have to deal with my present situation ever again. I'm tired of making other people rich too.

Cigar
11-25-2015, 03:40 PM
I understand your point, but life has a funny way of pulling the rug out from beneath you when you least expect it. I have been using that as a motivator to put myself into a position where I am prepared for whatever happens, so I don't have to deal with my present situation ever again. I'm tired of making other people rich too.

I have been in business for 23 years, and can't think of ever working for someone again, but I wouldn't have my experience without first having a mentor who I world for.

Ravens Fan
11-25-2015, 03:44 PM
I have been in business for 23 years, and can't think of ever working for someone again, but I wouldn't have my experience without first having a mentor who I world for.

I haven't found that one mentor yet, but I have been choosing jobs where I can learn as much as possible about running a small business and networking as much as possible.

Cigar
11-25-2015, 03:47 PM
I haven't found that one mentor yet, but I have been choosing jobs where I can learn as much as possible about running a small business and networking as much as possible.

Soak it up like a sponge :wink:

OGIS
11-26-2015, 03:01 PM
Yep; nothing like counting part time jobs as being employed or ignoring discouraged and non-participants in the reported unemployment figures to make this laggard economy look even slightly better.

Is that anything like ignoring evidence you disagree with? (JUST asking a question!)

Originally Posted by OGIS
So are you telling me that Bush DID NOT sign an agreement with Iraq to withdraw by a certain date? YES or NO, son. Yes or no.

Originally Posted by Truth Detector
Are you telling me Bush signed an agreement with a date certain witdrawal date? Show it to me.

Originally Posted by OGIS
"The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf

Thread reference: http://thepoliticalforums.com/thread...-the-jihad-war

Beevee
11-26-2015, 03:05 PM
Why isn't Obama being blamed for this?

OGIS
11-26-2015, 03:34 PM
sure they can stop paying the extended unemployment and put the work requirement back into the welfare system. That would be really easy.

So when all the food rioters are executed, there will finally be just enough jobs for the survivors.

I'm retired but I keep in touch with old colleagues. One of them, a partner at one of the "Top 10" accounting firms, says that they are on track to replace 35% of their site audit functions by 2020 with smart programming.

This is shocking to me. I expected that field auditing would be one of the last jobs to go, as it's a lot of grinding and analysis (often intuitive) with largely-disorganized hard-copy paperwork, something I would not have thought computers would be that great at. They have 2,000 or thereabouts field auditors. People who do that are paid fairly well, $85K to $105K per year, and are solidly in the middle class. So just right here we have 700 jobs and $95,000 x 2,000 x 35% = $66,500,000 lose in salaries that will no longer be buying consumer goods.

And this is one CPA firm. I'm pretty sure that they are not along in this.

The jobs are going away. How do you propose to address that?

OGIS
11-26-2015, 03:50 PM
Except that is not the reason the worker participation rate has dropped so much. You can only collect unemployment for so long until you run out of benefits. At that point, even though you are still looking for work that simply isn't there, you are not counted as "unemployed". But you knew that, right?

Hopefully, if the numbers given by this administration are anywhere near the reality, those who aren't on the official count can start finding work too.

Bingo. Employment in any meaningful (full time, permanent) sense is NOT increasing. I am seeing lots of minimum wage part time (i.e.: no benefits) jobs, with considerably fewer better ones. Here's an interesting tidbit: my contacts at accounting search firms (ex: Robert Half, Ajilon, Ledgent) say their new client counts and engagements are flat. Translation: assuming that new demand for new accounting management positions is stable (what they are hearing from other sources), then companies are cutting corners by replacing outsource-search for their normal attrition with promoting from within or doing without.

I know several degree'd accountants, two with CPAs, who have been out of work for 4 to 5 years. the last job of one of them was as a recruiter in an accounting search firm. No clients.