Myth and Reality After 9/11

[Mister D]

Snip

In one of the strangest turnabouts in modern political history, fierce anti-war and anti-administration critic Barack Obama, upon taking the office of the presidency, either embraced or expanded almost all of the Bush-Cheney anti-terrorism policies.

Obama also left mostly unchanged U.S. policy in Afghanistan and Iraq, and joined a third Middle East war by bombing Libya. Indeed, Vice President Joe Biden boasted that a calm Iraq could be one of the administration’s “greatest achievements.” In 2012, there will be no Obama reelection commercials bragging about the promised closure of Guantanamo Bay, but plenty taking credit for killing bin Laden inside Pakistan, a country where we have increased targeted drone assassinations fivefold since 2009.

President Obama, unlike candidate Obama, understood that the past unpopular U.S. measures kept us safe for seven years, and so had to be continued. He also guessed that when he put his own brand on these once widely caricatured but necessary anti-terrorism measures, the furor that had plagued the country from 2003 to 2008 would simply end in a whimper. And he was absolutely right on both counts.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/276503/myth-and-reality-after-911-victor-davis-hanson

[Conley]

Well, some of Bush/Cheney's actions were necessary to keep us safe...I don't know that all of them were.

And now that Obama has gone even beyond their actions I don't think anyone can argue with a straight face that this is all just to keep us safe. I have yet to hear a realistic explanation for Libya that has anything to do with our safety, national security, or self interest.

[Mister D]

Well, some of Bush/Cheney's actions were necessary to keep us safe...I don't know that all of them were.

And now that Obama has gone even beyond their actions I don't think anyone can argue with a straight face that this is all just to keep us safe. I have yet to hear a realistic explanation for Libya that has anything to do with our safety, national security, or self interest.


Our recent leadership (including Obama) seems hell bent on transforming the Mid East as the recent action in Libya indicates. That said, I'm hardly worried about my supposedly lost freedoms. It was partisan bologna that we no longer hear much about because of the Democrat in office.

[Conley]

The loss of civil liberties disturbs me mostly because I think it is part of a larger process of expanding government. I think we should all be very concerned about that.

Furthermore I believe that dimwits within government will gladly misuse this information or mistakenly make it public. Even if they have the best of intentions I don't trust them to be responsible.

[Pendragon]

George W. Bush and Dick Cheney did not keep Americans safe in the time after 9/11/01.

In fact, their actions led to more American deaths than 9/11 itself and more deaths during their eight years in office than any president since Vietnam. Are we supposed to give them a free pass for this?

For shame!!

[Juggernaut]

Good read, couldn't agree more, Obama is much like Bush only more dangerous with weapons......Chicago style O0 Bush did keep us safer post 9/11, even dems who are honest admit that.

We are now in 6 wars thanks to BO. Syria, Yemen and Nigeria plus Libya, Ira winding down and Afganistan. Obama starts more wars and the media are near silent. Proof they are corrupt and in the tank for Obama. Where is the anti-war left? Even some Repubs agree Obama has reacted too far. And never sought Constitutional permission to start new wars nor ask for funds.

[MMC]

Well, some of Bush/Cheney's actions were necessary to keep us safe...I don't know that all of them were.

And now that Obama has gone even beyond their actions I don't think anyone can argue with a straight face that this is all just to keep us safe. I have yet to hear a realistic explanation for Libya that has anything to do with our safety, national security, or self interest.


Our recent leadership (including Obama) seems hell bent on transforming the Mid East as the recent action in Libya indicates. That said, I'm hardly worried about my supposedly lost freedoms. It was partisan bologna that we no longer hear much about because of the Democrat in office.


Well we have heard Clinton state it.....some version in their heads of the Marshal Plan with respects to the M.E and the Arab Spring. Then Kerry siding with McCain on Nation Building and Infrastructure. Note it is Kerry who filed the legislation and not McCain and Lieberman. Thinking we will get something back in return. Even Howard Dean calls what took place in Egypt and Tunisia the New Version of Democracy.

Note we also have Iran Surrounded.....

[Conley]

Howard Dean...a name I have not heard in a while

Yeeeeeeeeeah :D

[Mister D]

George W. Bush and Dick Cheney did not keep Americans safe in the time after 9/11/01.

In fact, their actions led to more American deaths than 9/11 itself and more deaths during their eight years in office than any president since Vietnam. Are we supposed to give them a free pass for this?

For shame!!


Of course they did. We haven't had another terrorist attack have we? What's more, BO is continuing most of the Bush era policies. Hoe and change! Yes we can (make fools of the people who voted for us)! ;)

[Captain Obvious]

I have my issues with the dick/bush regime, but one thing I will not knock them on, in fact I'll compliment them highly is that they did everything in their power to keep us safe from future attacks.

Anyone who doesn't realize that is an idiot.

[Mister D]

I have my issues with the dick/bush regime, but one thing I will not knock them on, in fact I'll compliment them highly is that they did everything in their power to keep us safe from future attacks.

Anyone who doesn't realize that is an idiot.


Exactly. What did AQ just stop trying?

[Captain Obvious]

It's partisan sour grapes, you can spot it from across the county.

Wanna slam GW - pick a number of good reasons to and I'll join in, but be real about it.

[Mister D]

It's partisan sour grapes, you can spot it from across the county.

Wanna slam GW - pick a number of good reasons to and I'll join in, but be real about it.


Exactly: Part 2. There are several reasons to slam Bush. This ain't one of them. He deserves credit.

[Captain Obvious]

By default I have to give BO a little credit. My biggest concern was that this crew was going to reverse much of what dick/bush put in place as far as safety measures, but they haven't and I don't know if that's because of BO's waning confidence or by design, but it's a good thing either way.

[Mister D]

By default I have to give BO a little credit. My biggest concern was that this crew was going to reverse much of what dick/bush put in place as far as safety measures, but they haven't and I don't know if that's because of BO's waning confidence or by design, but it's a good thing either way.


My guess is he took office, got briefed, and said, "Oh shit, so that's why".

[Captain Obvious]

By default I have to give BO a little credit. My biggest concern was that this crew was going to reverse much of what dick/bush put in place as far as safety measures, but they haven't and I don't know if that's because of BO's waning confidence or by design, but it's a good thing either way.


My guess is he took office, got briefed, and said, "Oh shit, so that's why".


Yeah, great observation.

Honestly, in hindsight - if BO had the kind of street smarts he's getting now before he took office, it might have been a better run for him. I think his lack of street smarts coupled with his blind ambition hurt him way, way too much.

Might also explain why his head suddenly turned gray overnight seemingly.

Much like GW, I think he's trying to do the right thing, but like anyone else (and I've been in this spot before), if you're over your head, you tend to gravitate to what you know - not to what you need to do.

Just an observation.

[Mister D]

By default I have to give BO a little credit. My biggest concern was that this crew was going to reverse much of what dick/bush put in place as far as safety measures, but they haven't and I don't know if that's because of BO's waning confidence or by design, but it's a good thing either way.


My guess is he took office, got briefed, and said, "Oh shit, so that's why".


Yeah, great observation.

Honestly, in hindsight - if BO had the kind of street smarts he's getting now before he took office, it might have been a better run for him. I think his lack of street smarts coupled with his blind ambition hurt him way, way too much.

Might also explain why his head suddenly turned gray overnight seemingly.

Much like GW, I think he's trying to do the right thing, but like anyone else (and I've been in this spot before), if you're over your head, you tend to gravitate to what you know - not to what you need to do.

Just an observation.


Regarding premature aging, I noticed that about Clinton, Bush and BO. The job must have that effect. I remember thinking that about BO just the other day. I saw a pic on Yahoo and I thought, "damn, he looks like he has aged 10 years since he took office". Doesn't he though?

No doubt BO is in over his head and we all said so on the old forum before the election. That's why good council is so crucial. IMO, Bush seemed to have good council. What's more, he weathered the hysterical hatred that came his way. He did what he thought was right and stuck with it. Look, I'm no Bush fan but there are certain things I admire about the man. I think you're right about what people tend to do when they're in over their head and BO's ambition led him to a role I just don't think he was ready for. The worst part is that I don't think BO is as aware of his limitations as he should be.

[Captain Obvious]

Agreed - while there is a lot to criticize GW about, there is also a lot to admire about the guy. One thing that I have a high degree of admiration is that he stuck to his guns. There is a lot to be said about sticking to your guns when you're under a high level of critique. He didn't sway like others have including Clinton (which in the long run his waffling positively defined his presidency) and BO who is clinging to anything that will give him a shred of credit at this point.

I also agree with you on the council issue. Ironically BO tried to surround himself with as much layers of bureaucracy as far as council goes but much of it backfired on him. Quality/quantity thing.

[Mister D]

Agreed - while there is a lot to criticize GW about, there is also a lot to admire about the guy. One thing that I have a high degree of admiration is that he stuck to his guns. There is a lot to be said about sticking to your guns when you're under a high level of critique. He didn't sway like others have including Clinton (which in the long run his waffling positively defined his presidency) and BO who is clinging to anything that will give him a shred of credit at this point.

I also agree with you on the council issue. Ironically BO tried to surround himself with as much layers of bureaucracy as far as council goes but much of it backfired on him. Quality/quantity thing.


And Bush sure was taking a lot of flak. A LOT. I think Clinton waffled because he just didn't have any real principles. I think BO does have principles but, like you said, they collided with the reality of an office the man just wasn't ready for.

[Captain Obvious]

I have to give wild Bill a little more credit than that. I think he was a pretty shrewd guy, smart enough to know his limitations as far as his popularity goes and he went with that flow. That whole centrist concept worked out pretty good for him in the long run.

BO has a ton more special interests that he has unanswered promises to at this point, Going centrist won't help him out at all. He's painted himself into a corner that he can't get out of.

[MMC]

They do not call Bilbo the Ultimate commesurate politician for nothing. Best bullshit artist and con man in the game.

All underestimate the Clintons.....ever since they arrived on the scene. It has been all about Infiltration of the Media and the Democratic Party as well as attempting to align Moderate Southern Repubs. From the very first time Bilbo became Governeor of Arkansas, it was all about getting his people into the media first. CNN was the beginning. Then NBC and ABC. That was for Television alone. Then it was Print. NY Times, Washington Post, and even the Wall Street Journal.

I was not for Bush and I never could be for the Chicken-hawk Cheney. But people need to give Bush credit for clamping down on the security. He also forced the French to Open up the Surete and there was an AP on them having to share Intel with other Intel Agencies. The French were always playing their shit from their legal point of view. Thinking they didnt have to give anybody a heads up if their people came across shit. Bush told Sarkosy Like it was.....shit or get off the pot. French didn't like it to much nor did they care for Bush. What I liked was Bush Jr pretty much told Sarkosy to shut the fuck up and he didnt give a shit what the French president had to say. They had not contributed to Iraq. So Bush could give two shits what the French thought. Moreover despite the bad move with Iraq. Bush made the French look like shit to the rest of the world. But I was against the creation of Homeland Security. What a waste that shit is.....and we know where they head as we come closer to that Police State.

Also Under Bush they exposed the plot to get a bunch of Afghani's that had shaved off their beards and tried to enter in thru Mexico.(attempting to pass themselves off as Mexican) It is alleged that they were going to make a hit on Fort Huachuca in Arizona. Which is where all Military Intel go for training. It was like 70 Afghani' that penetrated into Mexico and then the Mexican GAFE and CIA took them down before they even got their mission off.

I am hoping more will be declassified so that we can discover what took place and how it came to be. At the Time the First to report on the issue was Lou Dobbs and then it was out of the News like ASAP and nothing was ever mentioned again. Except on Dobbs' Radio Show which was just a confirmation on that the report was out on CNN.