Pic of Farook's wife released...

[JDubya]

Tashfeen Malik....

http://s28.postimg.org/hg35pekgt/ht_tashfeen_malik_float_jc_151204_16x9_992.jpg

Bleccchhhh.....

No wonder he snapped!!!

[Captain Obvious]

oi vey...

[exotix]

Are you sure that's not Ted Cruz ?

[Safety]

http://www.chicagonow.com/listing-toward-forty/files/2015/03/austin-powers-a-man-baby-150x150.jpg

[Common]

The FBI is now investigating it as a terrorist attack

Female San Bernardino Shooter Praised ISIS Leader During Attack


FBI calls it act of terrorism
Wife pledged loyalty to ISIS

The mass shooting in San Bernardino on Wednesday was an act of terrorism, the FBI said, ending speculation that the rampage that killed 14 might have been a workplace dispute

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/san-bernardino-shooting-isis_5661b90ae4b072e9d1c5ccd0

[Mac-7]

Just a typical muslim immigrant who came to Ametica to make money and kill infidels.

[Dr. Who]

Just a typical muslim immigrant who came to Ametica to make money and kill infidels.
Right, one out of millions in America who don't do this is typical.

[Beevee]

Just a typical muslim immigrant who came to Ametica to make money and kill infidels.

I think you wanted to get that message out so fast that you made a typo with what you would consider to be the most important word in the sentence.

[sachem]

Her looks? You asses are making fun of her looks?

[zelmo1234]

the fact that there is evil in the world is lost on some.

This Man and Women had been planning this since the return. Those on the left that want to play the odds and continue bringing in people from Islamic nations and bring the Syrian Refugee's in? Are going to have to accept that a certain percentage of them are going to be terrorist. And those that are will plan and carry out events just like this one.

What I have not figured out is if this is planned or they are just being blind to the situation.

With the attacks on Christianity, Prayer and the Push for Gun Control? I am starting to think that they are willing to accept these acts of terror, as long as it helps them to defeat and persecute Christians, and it helps them put the gun bans in place that they seek.

If that is the case, then those on the left supporting these issues, have blood on their hands as well

[Common Sense]

the fact that there is evil in the world is lost on some.

This Man and Women had been planning this since the return. Those on the left that want to play the odds and continue bringing in people from Islamic nations and bring the Syrian Refugee's in? Are going to have to accept that a certain percentage of them are going to be terrorist. And those that are will plan and carry out events just like this one.

What I have not figured out is if this is planned or they are just being blind to the situation.

With the attacks on Christianity, Prayer and the Push for Gun Control? I am starting to think that they are willing to accept these acts of terror, as long as it helps them to defeat and persecute Christians, and it helps them put the gun bans in place that they seek.

If that is the case, then those on the left supporting these issues, have blood on their hands as well

I honestly don't know how you can believe that craziness. Do you honestly believe that your political adversaries, who are also your fellow countrymen, want to defeat Christian culture in America and are willing to encourage terrorism in order to do it?

[Private Pickle]

Tashfeen Malik....

http://s28.postimg.org/hg35pekgt/ht_tashfeen_malik_float_jc_151204_16x9_992.jpg

Bleccchhhh.....

No wonder he snapped!!!


Mmmm I just want to pop that blackhead on the end of her nose....

[exotix]

the fact that there is evil in the world is lost on some.

This Man and Women had been planning this since the return. Those on the left that want to play the odds and continue bringing in people from Islamic nations and bring the Syrian Refugee's in? Are going to have to accept that a certain percentage of them are going to be terrorist. And those that are will plan and carry out events just like this one.

What I have not figured out is if this is planned or they are just being blind to the situation.

With the attacks on Christianity, Prayer and the Push for Gun Control? I am starting to think that they are willing to accept these acts of terror, as long as it helps them to defeat and persecute Christians, and it helps them put the gun bans in place that they seek.

If that is the case, then those on the left supporting these issues, have blood on their hands as wellWe need another 9/11, less govt. and more guns.

[Captain Obvious]

Her looks? You asses are making fun of her looks?

I'm sorry, Sachem...

[Captain Obvious]

Mmmm I just want to pop that blackhead on the end of her nose....

Win

[Mister D]

BTW, this was the worst terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11. Find a new meme, guys. You know who you are.

[Mister D]

I'm sorry, Sachem...

Not as sorry as Farook, apparently.

[exotix]

Mmmm I just want to pop that blackhead on the end of her nose....
Fixt ...

http://i64.tinypic.com/mwcvn5.jpg

[Mister D]

I honestly don't know how you can believe that craziness. Do you honestly believe that your political adversaries, who are also your fellow countrymen, want to defeat Christian culture in America and are willing to encourage terrorism in order to do it?

Encourage? No. Ignore? yes.

[Mister D]

Fixt ...

http://i64.tinypic.com/mwcvn5.jpg

Yeah, that would fix me alright.

[exotix]

BTW, this was the worst terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11. Find a new meme, guys. You know who you are.I'm tired of GOP thoughts and prayers ... where's Bush & Cheney ?

[sachem]

I'm sorry, Sachem...:facepalm:

Right.

[zelmo1234]

I honestly don't know how you can believe that craziness. Do you honestly believe that your political adversaries, who are also your fellow countrymen, want to defeat Christian culture in America and are willing to encourage terrorism in order to do it?

Well I look at what they have written and who they blame for the events and then who the protect,

When you look at what the Democrats are saying about Christianity, Prayer, and How they still are stuck on the religion of peace crap?

What other explanations could there be?

[zelmo1234]

We need another 9/11, less govt. and more guns.

We need to unleash hellfire on these mosques where they are preaching this hate.

[Dr. Who]

the fact that there is evil in the world is lost on some.

This Man and Women had been planning this since the return. Those on the left that want to play the odds and continue bringing in people from Islamic nations and bring the Syrian Refugee's in? Are going to have to accept that a certain percentage of them are going to be terrorist. And those that are will plan and carry out events just like this one.

What I have not figured out is if this is planned or they are just being blind to the situation.

With the attacks on Christianity, Prayer and the Push for Gun Control? I am starting to think that they are willing to accept these acts of terror, as long as it helps them to defeat and persecute Christians, and it helps them put the gun bans in place that they seek.

If that is the case, then those on the left supporting these issues, have blood on their hands as well
And the difference between Muslim nutjobs and regular American nutjobs is what? Are people killed by Muslim nutjobs more dead than those killed by Christian nutjobs?

[Private Pickle]

Fixt ...

http://i64.tinypic.com/mwcvn5.jpg


MMMm I just want to pop the whitehead on the end of her nose...

[Dangermouse]

We need to unleash hellfire on these mosques where they are preaching this hate.

Hellfire? That's a real peaceful religion!

[Common]

I honestly don't know how you can believe that craziness. Do you honestly believe that your political adversaries, who are also your fellow countrymen, want to defeat Christian culture in America and are willing to encourage terrorism in order to do it?

Common sense I dont run around seeing a conspiracy under every rock. I can tell you what is quite noticable and undeniable

Obama admin worries more about muslims than christians. This last threat by the DOJ was absurd and ridiculous.

Obama admin will jump right in when someone is shot by a cop or a masshooting for gun control, but when a cop is shot there is eerie silence.

The left the second anything happens starts defending muslims to a FAULT

I coud go on and on but for what I dont have to justify my perceptions, they are mine.

I am increasingly turning against the Obama administration and I am damn glad his ass will be gone soon. I put americans first this is my country these are my countrmen.

Taking refugees is not taking care of americans its putting them at unnecessary risk. Cheerleading for illegal immigrants that kill americans is a mindset that shows an agenda that I do not like
The doj THREATENING americans after 14 were just murdered shows me a mindset that I DO NOT LIKE ONE BIT and I dont care who doesnt like it

[donttread]

Tashfeen Malik....

http://s28.postimg.org/hg35pekgt/ht_tashfeen_malik_float_jc_151204_16x9_992.jpg

Bleccchhhh.....

No wonder he snapped!!!

Perhaps, and this is just a suggestion, we shouldn't issue "finance visas" to people from countries where we blow villages up with drones.

[Mac-7]

Right, one out of millions in America who don't do this is typical.

Enough Muslims in America and around the world are radicalized and violent to make Muslims a threat

As you say not all Muslims are dangerous

But this woman does not look dangerous

She is in fact just a typical Muslim woman as far as anyone can tell by looking at her

But murdered 14 innocent American citizens

[Chris]

Just a typical muslim immigrant who came to Ametica to make money and kill infidels.


BTW, this was the worst terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11. Find a new meme, guys. You know who you are.

But they're all trying to kill us! :help:

[Chris]

I'm tired of GOP thoughts and prayers ... where's Bush & Cheney ?

Isn't Obama putting boots on the ground already?

[Beevee]

Perhaps, and this is just a suggestion, we shouldn't issue "finance visas" to people from countries where we blow villages up with drones.

Is Pakistan on the US drone list? I didn't know that.

[Mac-7]

And the difference between Muslim nutjobs and regular American nutjobs is what?

The difference is that by our laws people born in this country have a right to be here whether they are crazy or not

But Muslims who are not born here do not have a right to immigrate unless we decide to let them

[donttread]

Is Pakistan on the US drone list? I didn't know that.


Yup, we drone bomb villages in allied territory to kill "terrorist number two men" . Keep up

[Mac-7]

I think you wanted to get that message out so fast that you made a typo with what you would consider to be the most important word in the sentence.

It's all fair when dealing with terrorists

Insulting her looks is a small thing

I would bury her with a dead pig in her coffin if I could

[Mac-7]

I honestly don't know how you can believe that craziness. Do you honestly believe that your political adversaries, who are also your fellow countrymen, want to defeat Christian culture in America and are willing to encourage terrorism in order to do it?

I'm sure many liberals do

They hate Christians so much that the enemy of their enemy is their friend

In this case using Islam to bring down Christians

liberals are so arrogant they think they can easily defeat Muslims after Christians are out of the way

[Chris]

And the difference between Muslim nutjobs and regular American nutjobs is what? Are people killed by Muslim nutjobs more dead than those killed by Christian nutjobs?

Xenophobia.

[Safety]

I'm sure many liberals do

They hate Christians so much that the enemy of their enemy is their friend

In this case using Islam to bring down Christians

liberals are so arrogant they think they can easily defeat Muslims after Christians are out of the way

Hyperbole.

[Mac-7]

Hyperbole.

That's just your liberal opinion

[Safety]

That's just your liberal opinion

Yes, it was a free opinion. I could charge next time.

[Mac-7]

Yes, it was a free opinion. I could charge next time.

Liberal opinions are supposed to be handed out free by the government

[Safety]

Liberal opinions are supposed to be handed out free by the government

Good thing this isn't the government then, right? I accept PayPal.

[Dr. Who]

Enough Muslims in America and around the world are radicalized and violent to make Muslims a threat

As you say not all Muslims are dangerous

But this woman does not look dangerous

She is in fact just a typical Muslim woman as far as anyone can tell by looking at her

But murdered 14 innocent American citizens

It's not like there haven't been non-Muslim rampage killers over the years that have killed on a similar scale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

[Mister D]

And the difference between Muslim nutjobs and regular American nutjobs is what? Are people killed by Muslim nutjobs more dead than those killed by Christian nutjobs?

Now hold on...when I say the victims of "hate" crimes are no less beaten and killed than those of plain old violent crime you insist on a difference. Sounds like special pleading to me.

[Dr. Who]

Now hold on...when I say the victims of "hate" crimes are no less beaten and killed than those of plain old violent crime you insist on a difference. Sounds like special pleading to me.
I am comparing rampage killers to rampage killers. I will draw a distinction between those who are agents of a foreign entity, but not those who are essentially home-grown nutters with a personal agenda, irrespective of the nature of the agenda. All rampage killings are really some form of hate crime.

[Common]

I am comparing rampage killers to rampage killers. I will draw a distinction between those who are agents of a foreign entity, but not those who are essentially home-grown nutters with a personal agenda, irrespective of the nature of the agenda. All rampage killings are really some form of hate crime.

Mass killings are categorized and its proven that mass killers are not always mentally disturbed but calculated individuals who carefully planned to commit mayhem.

Like the two muslims In San Bernadino their large family had no clue no was there any indication of mental illness.

[Dr. Who]

Mass killings are categorized and its proven that mass killers are not always mentally disturbed but calculated individuals who carefully planned to commit mayhem.

Like the two muslims In San Bernadino their large family had no clue no was there any indication of mental illness.
I use the word nutter loosely. They may not be mentally ill, per se, but I do think they all have some kind of screw loose.

[Mac-7]

It's not like there haven't been non-Muslim rampage killers over the years that have killed on a similar scale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

You make no distinction between citizens or foreigners

But I do

We have enough nutty citizens that the government cannot identify or arrest before they kill - even if they could be identified

And having citizens who are crazy, the last thing we need are foreigners to kill us too

But that is what Obama and liberals want to do

[Dr. Who]

You make no distinction between citizens or foreigners

But I do

We have enough nutty citizens that the government cannot identify or arrest before they kill - even if they could be identified

And having citizens who are crazy, the last thing we need are foreigners to kill us too

But that is what Obama and liberals want to do
So just shut down all immigration of any kind, because no matter what, there is a statistical probability that at least one individual per every 100,000 is likely to commit a crime, perhaps even murder.

[Mac-7]

So just shut down all immigration of any kind, because no matter what, there is a statistical probability that at least one individual per every 100,000 is likely to commit a crime, perhaps even murder.

A pause on immigration sounds good to me

But that is a different issue for another time

Right now the problem is Muslims who are radicalized and pose a specific threat to Americans where we live and work

Worldwide there are estates to be up to 100 million Muslims who are radicalized

Thats one out of ten

And a terrorist looks just like a peaceful Muslim until they pull out a weapon and start killing people

[Dr. Who]

A pause on immigration sounds good to me

But that is a different issue for another time

Right now the problem is Muslims who are radicalized and pose a specific threat to Americans where we live and work

Worldwide there are estates to be up to 100 million Muslims who are radicalized

Thats one out of ten

And a terrorist looks just like a peaceful Muslim until they pull out a weapon and start killing people
If there were 100 million radicalized Muslims around the world, we would be seeing far more acts of terrorism than we actually do.

[Mister D]

I am comparing rampage killers to rampage killers. I will draw a distinction between those who are agents of a foreign entity, but not those who are essentially home-grown nutters with a personal agenda, irrespective of the nature of the agenda. All rampage killings are really some form of hate crime.

Well, yeah. That's what I mean. If the rampage in question was racially motivated, for example, you would argue it's in a class of its own, right? That is, additional charges should be added to multiple counts of murder.

[Mister D]

So just shut down all immigration of any kind, because no matter what, there is a statistical probability that at least one individual per every 100,000 is likely to commit a crime, perhaps even murder.

Placing severe restrictions on it is probably a good idea at this point for a number of reasons. We've done it before.

[Dr. Who]

Well, yeah. That's what I mean. If the rampage in question was racially motivated, for example, you would argue it's in a class of its own, right? That is, additional charges should be added to multiple counts of murder.
If it's about hate and intended to terrorize, then whether the target is a racial group, religious group, a political group, employees of a particular business, branch of government, police force or just people of a social class or group that someone thinks need to die, it is a hate crime. TBH anyone whose goal is to terrorize is committing a hate crime, even if what they hate is the government, since they extend that hatred to innocent people. Conversely anyone who commits a hate crime by definition is trying to terrorize.

[Mac-7]

If there were 100 million radicalized Muslims around the world, we would be seeing far more acts of terrorism than we actually do.

I don't what radical Muslims do in their spare time

But they don't have to be 24/7 killing machines to be a threat

The two Muslim immigrants in California managed to keep it together for several years before going on by heir killing spree

But according to surveys by Pew and others radical Islam is far more pervasive than you seem to think

For instance in some places as many 25% think violence against civilians in the name of Islam is ok

That makes all Muslims far too dangerous to allow in this country

http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/08/GSI-II-infographic_forweb.png

[Dr. Who]

Placing severe restrictions on it is probably a good idea at this point for a number of reasons. We've done it before.
Well the turtle strategy could work - pull in head and all four legs and wait, but it does kind of send a message to ISIL that it's winning and has succeeded in scaring the most powerful nation on the planet.

[Mister D]

If it's about hate and intended to terrorize, then whether the target is a racial group, religious group, a political group, employees of a particular business, branch of government, police force or just people of a social class or group that someone thinks need to die, it is a hate crime. TBH anyone whose goal is to terrorize is committing a hate crime, even if what they hate is the government, since they extend that hatred to innocent people. Conversely anyone who commits a hate crime by definition is trying to terrorize.

But you're avoiding my question. You said earlier that we should make no distinction between "rampage killers" regardless of whether their motivation was radical Islam (I wouldn't consider them a rampage killer at that point), some personal grievance, or madness but we should otherwise make distinctions concerning motivation. Is that correct?

I certainly don't believe this Farook guy should be classed with "rampage killers" because that term entails a lack of rationality. What Farook did has much greater scope than the acts of someone bear8ing a grudge, for example, regardless of the death toll in so far as he had connections with foreign entities hostile to the USA. His was a political act in the strict sense.

[Mister D]

Well the turtle strategy could work - pull in head and all four legs and wait, but it does kind of send a message to ISIL that it's winning and has succeeded in scaring the most powerful nation on the planet.

Turtle strategy? When immigration was severely restricted in the 1920s it was to help "Americanize" a large immigrant population. Not a bad idea then and not a bad idea today...

[Dr. Who]

I don't what radical Muslims do in their spare time

But they don't have to be 24/7 killing machines to be a threat

The two Muslim immigrants in California managed to keep it together for several years before going on by heir killing spree

But according to surveys by Pew and others radical Islam is far more pervasive than you seem to think

For instance in some places as many 25% think violence against civilians in the name of Islam is ok

That makes all Muslims far too dangerous to allow in this country

http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/08/GSI-II-infographic_forweb.png
I think it very much depends on where they come from these days:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/

[Dr. Who]

Turtle strategy? When immigration was severely restricted in the 1920s it was to help "Americanize" a large immigrant population. Not a bad idea then and not a bad idea today...
If that is the strategy, as opposed to fearing Muslim immigrants.

[Mister D]

If that is the strategy, as opposed to fearing Muslim immigrants.

It's quite rational to fear Muslim immigration. Muslim colonies seem to cause a lot of trouble for western societies. The "fearful' base their apprehension on a great deal of empirical evidence with the recent massacres in CA and Paris being but two examples. Inevitably, someone will now say what about the white guy!? My response is: so what? Why would we want to take a pointless security risk?

[Dr. Who]

But you're avoiding my question. You said earlier that we should make no distinction between "rampage killers" regardless of whether their motivation was radical Islam (I wouldn't consider them a rampage killer at that point), some personal grievance, or madness but we should otherwise make distinctions concerning motivation. Is that correct?

I certainly don't believe this Farook guy should be classed with "rampage killers" because that term entails a lack of rationality. What Farook did has much greater scope than the acts of someone bear8ing a grudge, for example, regardless of the death toll in so far as he had connections with foreign entities hostile to the USA. His was a political act in the strict sense.
It was definitely an act of terror and a hate crime, even if politically motivated. Unless it's proven that he was directed by a foreign entity, it was an act of domestic terrorism. However despite the term "rampage", many of these acts are very carefully planned, not spontaneous events. Adam Lanza very much planned killing all of those kids, as did many of the other school spree killers. As to political motivation - that may be in the eye of the beholder. Many of the school spree killers had political manifestos condemning the American government.

[Mister D]

It was definitely an act of terror and a hate crime, even if politically motivated. Unless it's proven that he was directed by a foreign entity, it was an act of domestic terrorism. However despite the term "rampage", many of these acts are very carefully planned, not spontaneous events. Adam Lanza very much planned killing all of those kids, as did many of the other school spree killers. As to political motivation - that may be in the eye of the beholder. Many of the school spree killers had political manifestos condemning the American government.

There is hardly anything domestic about radical Islam which is sort of the point above regarding immigration. Why allow it to become domestic?

Planned does not equal rational. The goals of radical Islamists are quite rational regardless of how one may feel about them otherwise. Deciding everyone has to die because you lost your job, were mistreated at work, were bullied etc. is not rational.

[Dr. Who]

It's quite rational to fear Muslim immigration. Muslim colonies seem to cause a lot of trouble for western societies. The "fearful' base their apprehension on a great deal of empirical evidence with the recent massacres in CA and Paris being but two examples. Inevitably, someone will now say what about the white guy!? My response is: so what? Why would we want to take a pointless security risk?
In general, no country should be bringing in people for whom there are basically no permanent jobs to be had and that is the issue in France and behind much of the trouble there. In Germany they permitted temporary workers who never left. So, as a rule, immigrants should have some guarantee of full-time guaranteed employment before they are permitted to immigrate. The difficult aspect is family reunification.

[Mister D]

In general, no country should be bringing in people for whom there are basically no permanent jobs to be had and that is the issue in France and behind much of the trouble there. In Germany they permitted temporary workers who never left. So, as a rule, immigrants should have some guarantee of full-time guaranteed employment before they are permitted to immigrate. The difficult aspect is family reunification.

I would not, as you know, limit this to the economic dimension but we find plenty of room for agreement there.

[Dr. Who]

There is hardly anything domestic about radical Islam which is sort of the point above regarding immigration. Why allow it to become domestic?

Planned does not equal rational. The goals of radical Islamists are quite rational regardless of how one may feel about them otherwise. Deciding everyone has to die because you lost your job, were mistreated at work, were bullied etc. is not rational.
I would suggest that radical Islam is not rational, any more than wishing to take America back to the 17th century would be rational, even if it might better suit someone of a fundamentalist Christian or Jewish persuasion. The radicalizers are using cherry picked scripture and emotion to recruit, but there has to be something fundamentally wrong with the people who become followers. I think that they are much like people who are drawn into cults.

[Mister D]

I would suggest that radical Islam is not rational, any more than wishing to take America back to the 17th century would be rational, even if it might better suit someone of a fundamentalist Christian or Jewish persuasion. The radicalizers are using cherry picked scripture and emotion to recruit, but there has to be something fundamentally wrong with the people who become followers. I think that they are much like people who are drawn into cults.

I think far too many westerners want to believe that radical Islam is some kind of creepy cult.

[Dr. Who]

I think far too many westerners want to believe that radical Islam is some kind of creepy cult.
So do most Muslims. They certainly don't support ISIL.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/
I think it's not surprising that Farook's wife came from Pakistan which enjoys the largest support for ISIL.

[Mister D]

So do most Muslims. They certainly don't support ISIL.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/
I think it's not surprising that Farook's wife came from Pakistan which enjoys the largest support for ISIL.

ISIL is but one manifestation among many. It's also a manifestation that has grabbed the entire world's attention. Hardly some obscure cul like Heavens's Gate.

[Dr. Who]

ISIL is but one manifestation among many. It's also a manifestation that has grabbed the entire world's attention. Hardly some obscure cul like Heavens's Gate.
When you mix politics with a cult, then you have a better hook.

[Mister D]

When you mix politics with a cult, then you have a better hook.

You don't think these people genuinely believe in what they're doing?

[Dr. Who]

You don't think these people genuinely believe in what they're doing?
Of course they do - but I also think that they are people with problems that make them prone to being led by maniacs.

[Mister D]

Of course they do - but I also think that they are people with problems that make them prone to being led by maniacs.

I'd suggest that more often they are people with ideals however unwholesome those ideals may appear to us.

[Private Pickle]

Soooo back to that blackhead on her nose.... I mean how does one let that kind of thing happen?

[Private Pickle]

Of course they do - but I also think that they are people with problems that make them prone to being led by maniacs.

Is that why you Mod?

I kid. I kid!

[Dr. Who]

I'd suggest that more often they are people with ideals however unwholesome those ideals may appear to us.
Perhaps a mixture of both.

[Dr. Who]

Is that why you Mod?

I kid. I kid!
Masochistic streak.

[Mister D]

Perhaps a mixture of both.

To a certain extent I can sympathize with the identitarian sentiment behind radical Islam but i do not of course agree with their methods.

[JDubya]

Soooo back to that blackhead on her nose.... I mean how does one let that kind of thing happen?

She probably didn't live near a Harbor Freight Tools and as such, had no access to the required tool to remove it...

http://www.naturalhorsetrim.com/miln6130-33.jpg

[Mister D]

lol

[Dr. Who]

To a certain extent I can sympathize with the identitarian sentiment behind radical Islam but i do not of course agree with their methods.
I expect that if one were to interview every ISIL member you might find a number of different reasons why they are fighting and committing acts of terrorism. Religion may not be a factor in every case. The politics of the ME, tribalism and poverty are also significant motivators and I believe underly most of the problems that we are seeing. In the case of foreign citizens being co-opted, brainwashed or however you want to describe the phenomenon, I believe that the protagonists of radical Islam are indeed using cherry picked scripture with a huge helping of hate to lure adherents promising revenge.

What we do know about Farook for instance is that he was an extreme introvert - enough so that he had to find a wife in Pakistan. Clearly American Muslim women were not beating a path to his door. Might that not have engendered a hatred for American society that caters to the extroverts? I'm sure the internet purveyors of radical Islam had something to say about the wanton women of America, it's Godless society and how men are not respected. No doubt his imported wife was a passive-aggressive woman who directed him through proper subservience and attention to specific scriptures.

[Captain Obvious]

Soooo back to that blackhead on her nose.... I mean how does one let that kind of thing happen?

She named it "mini-mo"

[JDubya]

She named it "mini-mo"

http://www.shescribes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Good-2-Go-Bobble-Head-150x300.gif

I see the resemblance.

[Private Pickle]

She named it "mini-mo"

Apostate! It was mini-Muhammad!

[Mister D]

I expect that if one were to interview every ISIL member you might find a number of different reasons why they are fighting and committing acts of terrorism. Religion may not be a factor in every case. The politics of the ME, tribalism and poverty are also significant motivators and I believe underly most of the problems that we are seeing. In the case of foreign citizens being co-opted, brainwashed or however you want to describe the phenomenon, I believe that the protagonists of radical Islam are indeed using cherry picked scripture with a huge helping of hate to lure adherents promising revenge.

What we do know about Farook for instance is that he was an extreme introvert - enough so that he had to find a wife in Pakistan. Clearly American Muslim women were not beating a path to his door. Might that not have engendered a hatred for American society that caters to the extroverts? I'm sure the internet purveyors of radical Islam had something to say about the wanton women of America, it's Godless society and how men are not respected. No doubt his imported wife was a passive-aggressive woman who directed him through proper subservience and attention to specific scriptures.

Perhaps in some respects those "internet purveyors" were exploiting a truth about American society that finds more fertile soil than we'd like to think. Perhaps we prefer to think of everyone else having "problems" or "issues" instead of recognizing our own way of life is in some ways dysfunctional. After all, I'm often told we don't see the rampage killers in most other societies or certainly not with comparable frequency. Food for thought.

[JDubya]

Perhaps in some respects those "internet purveyors" were exploiting a truth about American society that finds more fertile soil than we'd like to think. Perhaps we prefer to think of everyone else having "problems" or "issues" instead of recognizing our own way of life is in some ways dysfunctional. After all, I'm often told we don't see the rampage killers in most other societies or certainly not with comparable frequency. Food for thought.

Refusing to admit, acknowledge or in many cases, even recognize our own shortcomings is, unfortunately an all too common American trait.

[Mister D]

Refusing to admit, acknowledge or in many cases, even recognize our own shortcomings is, unfortunately an all too common American trait.

Indeed, sir.

[Dr. Who]

Perhaps in some respects those "internet purveyors" were exploiting a truth about American society that finds more fertile soil than we'd like to think. Perhaps we prefer to think of everyone else having "problems" or "issues" instead of recognizing our own way of life is in some ways dysfunctional. After all, I'm often told we don't see the rampage killers in most other societies or certainly not with comparable frequency. Food for thought.
Well, it's not because of liberalism, because far more liberal societies than America have far fewer rampage killers, so it must be something unique to America. Many of those societies are even less religious than America and some are just as diverse as America. So what is the difference between these societies that produces a different outcome? Is it just general attitude?

[Mister D]

Well, it's not because of liberalism, because far more liberal societies than America have far fewer rampage killers, so it must be something unique to America. Many of those societies are even less religious than America and some are just as diverse as America. So what is the difference between these societies that produces a different outcome? Is it just general attitude?

If by liberalism you mean an atomized, individualistic and materialistic society, I disagree. We exemplify such a society. Europe has known another way of life. She has 1500 years to look back upon. We haven't and don't.

[JDubya]

Well, it's not because of liberalism, because far more liberal societies than America have far fewer rampage killers, so it must be something unique to America. Many of those societies are even less religious than America and some are just as diverse as America. So what is the difference between these societies that produces a different outcome? Is it just general attitude?

Americans have been fed on violence for hundreds of years.

We gained control of the country with violence. The old west has always been portrayed as having been violent. Most of our TV shows and movies are violent. We seem to have it ingrained in our psyches.

Violence and aggression is our preferred solution to problems.

[JDubya]

If by liberalism you mean an atomized, individualistic and materialistic society, I disagree. We exemplify such a society. Europe has known another way of life. She has 1500 years to look back upon. We haven't and don't.

Yes, we are still a comparatively young country.

Maybe we'll mature someday.

[JDubya]

Speaking of our violent culture, I just saw this trailer for a movie coming out next year...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihb8vCrj2kc

And we wonder why we're a violent society?

And this is a comedy.

[Dr. Who]

If by liberalism you mean an atomized, individualistic and materialistic society, I disagree. We exemplify such a society. Europe has known another way of life. She has 1500 years to look back upon. We haven't and don't.
What about Canada and Australia?

[Dr. Who]

Americans have been fed on violence for hundreds of years.

We gained control of the country with violence. The old west has always been portrayed as having been violent. Most of our TV shows and movies are violent. We seem to have it ingrained in our psyches.

Violence and aggression is our preferred solution to problems.
That is a plausible theory, but what is the solution?

[Dr. Who]

Speaking of our violent culture, I just saw this trailer for a movie coming out next year...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihb8vCrj2kc

And we wonder why we're a violent society?

And this is a comedy.
Welcome to America where violence is clean and sex is dirty. I agree that this subtle violent message as it has been incorporated into all forms of entertainment for many years has undoubtedly had an effect, however, these movies and tv shows have been syndicated and distributed worldwide, along with all of the violent video games. The violence still resonates more in America than in other first world countries.

[Common]

Welcome to America where violence is clean and sex is dirty. I agree that this subtle violent message as it has been incorporated into all forms of entertainment for many years has undoubtedly had an effect, however, these movies and tv shows have been syndicated and distributed worldwide, along with all of the violent video games. The violence still resonates more in America than in other first world countries.

If you commit a crime in the USA and commit the same crime elsewhere, I wonder if other countries have harsher penalties or less harsh. I believe its a little of both.

[Dr. Who]

If you commit a crime in the USA and commit the same crime elsewhere, I wonder if other countries have harsher penalties or less harsh. I believe its a little of both.
They have far fewer people locked up, but then again they don't have private prison contractors. Outside of America, prison is not a growth industry.

[Mac-7]

So do most Muslims. They certainly don't support ISIL.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/
I think it's not surprising that Farook's wife came from Pakistan which enjoys the largest support for ISIL.

As many as 25% support or sympathize with radical islam which includes isil

[Safety]

As many as 25% support or sympathize with radical islam which includes isil

Link or source?

[Mac-7]

What about Canada and Australia?

We are not canadians or Australians who were given our independence by an enlightened or perhaps just weary crown.

we took our freedom by force.

whats missing in America from previous generations is the influence of God and Jesus Christ.

America isnow a very liberal and secular society

[JDubya]

That is a plausible theory, but what is the solution?

I think what we need to do is stop expecting to find magic solutions to everything.

Americans have been programmed to think that if something is bugging us, someone will invent something or some product or come up with some strategy or method, that will make it go away like bad breath, yellow teeth, B.O., ring around the collar etc, etc.

But there just aren't really any quick-fix solutions to our social problems. That kind of change takes generations. Maybe it will eventually come about, but we probably won't be around to see it.

The sooner we accept that, the better off we'll be and the more we can focus on doing what we can do to make ourselves better individually.

[Bob]

They have far fewer people locked up, but then again they don't have private prison contractors. Outside of America, prison is not a growth industry.

I don't understand why some in the USA trash private prisons?

Prisons don't arrest nor try people in courts of laws. But for the cops and Judges, would private prisons have customers?

[Bob]

I think what we need to do is stop expecting to find magic solutions to everything.

Americans have been programmed to think that if something is bugging us, someone will invent something or some product or come up with some strategy or method, that will make it go away like bad breath, yellow teeth, B.O., ring around the collar etc, etc.

But there just aren't really any quick-fix solutions to our social problems. That kind of change takes generations. Maybe it will eventually come about, but we probably won't be around to see it.

The sooner we accept that, the better off we'll be and the more we can focus on doing what we can do to make ourselves better individually.

There is a lot of wisdom contained above. Suggest it be read a few more times.

[Mister D]

What about Canada and Australia?

What about them? Like Europe, they have been dominated politically, culturally and intellectually by the US since 1945 although in the cases of Canada and Australia it was due more to the US assuming Britain's former role.

[Subdermal]

Tashfeen Malik....

http://s28.postimg.org/hg35pekgt/ht_tashfeen_malik_float_jc_151204_16x9_992.jpg

Bleccchhhh.....

No wonder he snapped!!!

Just as feminism granted ugly women access to a voice in the mainstream of society, ISIS does likewise for these butt-ugly muslim women.

[Mister D]

I think what we need to do is stop expecting to find magic solutions to everything.

Americans have been programmed to think that if something is bugging us, someone will invent something or some product or come up with some strategy or method, that will make it go away like bad breath, yellow teeth, B.O., ring around the collar etc, etc.

But there just aren't really any quick-fix solutions to our social problems. That kind of change takes generations. Maybe it will eventually come about, but we probably won't be around to see it.

The sooner we accept that, the better off we'll be and the more we can focus on doing what we can do to make ourselves better individually.








Related to that I think is the belief that spending more money will fix a child's steadfast refusal to learn and take his/her education seriously.

[Dr. Who]

What about them? Like Europe, they have been dominated politically, culturally and intellectually by the US since 1945 although in the cases of Canada and Australia it was due more to the US assuming Britain's former role.
Neither have shared in the level of violence that characterizes America.

[Matty]

Just as feminism granted ugly women access to a voice in the mainstream of society, ISIS does likewise for these butt-ugly muslim women.


Freaky damn eyebrows.

[Mister D]

Neither have shared in the level of violence that characterizes America.

I agree. That is what we should expect. America epitomizes the individualistic, materialistic society that I referred to above. A society where social bonds revolve around economic interests. Have no fear though. We are busy remaking the rest of the world in our image.

[Subdermal]

Freaky damn eyebrows.

Not to mention Ed Asner's nose.

[JDubya]

Related to that I think is the belief that spending more money will fix a child's steadfast refusal to learn and take his/her education seriously.

Educational outcomes have as much if not more to do with the student's home life and the level of parental involvement than anything going on in the schools themselves.

One thing that was always obvious to me was that the more educated the parents are, the more educated the kids become, because educated parents understand the value of education, therefore they get involved more in their kids' education and of course, being smarter themselves enables them to help their kids understand the subject matter more effectively.

If a kid has smart, involved parents, that kid can attend classes in a run down, dilapidated old shit hole building with mediocre teachers, and still come out of it better prepared and with a better education than a disinterested kid who goes to a brand new, modern, state of the art palace, and whose parents don't lift a finger to get involved.

But these same "parents" are the ones who always want to blame the schools and teachers for their kids screwing up.

[Mister D]

Educational outcomes have as much if not more to do with the student's home life and the level of parental involvement than anything going on in the schools themselves.

One thing that was always obvious to me was that the more educated the parents are, the more educated the kids become, because educated parents understand the value of education, therefore they get involved more in their kids' education and of course, being smarter themselves enables them to help their kids understand the subject matter more effectively.

If a kid has smart, involved parents, that kid can attend classes in a run down, dilapidated old $#@! hole building with mediocre teachers, and still come out of it better prepared and with a better education than a disinterested kid who goes to a brand new, modern, state of the art palace, and whose parents don't lift a finger to get involved.

But these same "parents" are the ones who always want to blame the schools and teachers for their kids screwing up.

Agreed. This is far more a matter of upbringing and culture than it is one of economics. The idea that we are not spending enough is one canard that irritates me. It is demonstrably false. We spend more than some other countries who receive a greater return on their investment. We need to look elsewhere for answers.

[JDubya]

Agreed. This is far more a matter of upbringing and culture than it is one of economics. The idea that we are not spending enough is one canard that irritates me. It is demonstrably false. We spend more than some other countries who receive a greater return on their investment. We need to look elsewhere for answers.

We need to look at ourselves as a society and at why our culture breeds the crappy attitudes displayed by our youth.