What a beauty Scalia is

[exotix]

Today

Scalia: Affirmative Action Sends Blacks To Schools Too Advanced For Them

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/scalia-race-affirmative-action



http://i67.tinypic.com/fa61kx.jpg

[Crepitus]

Guy's an ass.

[Mac-7]

Black students are struggling to keep up in the elite universities.

[Cigar]

I've herd stuff like this all my life

... even after I got my first degree in Physics from The University of Illinois
... even after I got my second degree in Software Engineering from The Illinois Institute of Technology
... even after I got my Masters degree in Information Systems Management & PMP Certification from Keller

I stop hearing it after I started my own business 14 years ago ... and guess why? Because they're still punching clocks for someone else, and for some strange reason, I can't hear them anymore. :laugh: Maybe I'll hear them again on the Golf Course after I retire in a few years at 55.

So people like Scalia have been saying and thinking that way for Centuries, and I don't care if they live their entire lives and die ignorant. :grin:

[texan]

I wonder what the stats say? I guess nobody cares?

But I bet you admires desperately want to throw the word racists around. Admit it!

[donttread]

Today

Scalia: Affirmative Action Sends Blacks To Schools Too Advanced For Them

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/scalia-race-affirmative-action



http://i67.tinypic.com/fa61kx.jpg

He certainly could of phrased it better but there is a lot of truth there. Anytime you accept students or employ people less qualified than those you reject you run a higher risk of putting them in a situation they cannot handle. Not because they're black, but because they are the most qualified applicants

[donttread]

I've herd stuff like this all my life

... even after I got my first degree in Physics from The University of Illinois
... even after I got my second degree in Software Engineering from The Illinois Institute of Technology
... even after I got my Masters degree in Information Systems Management & PMP Certification from Keller

I stop hearing it after I started my own business 14 years ago ... and guess why? Because they're still punching clocks for someone else, and for some strange reason, I can't hear them anymore. :laugh: Maybe I'll hear them again on the Golf Course after I retire in a few years at 55.

So people like Scalia have been saying and thinking that way for Centuries, and I don't care if they live their entire lives and die ignorant. :grin:

Were you admitted to these schools based upon AA or your own merits?

[HoneyBadger]

Perpetuating discrimination is never a good thing. Let everyone compete at the same level and let the best candidates get accepted into the top schools. If you can't compete without special treatment, you aren't ready for that school.

[Cletus]

I've herd stuff like this all my life

... even after I got my first degree in Physics from The University of Illinois
... even after I got my second degree in Software Engineering from The Illinois Institute of Technology
... even after I got my Masters degree in Information Systems Management & PMP Certification from Keller

I stop hearing it after I started my own business 14 years ago ... and guess why? Because they're still punching clocks for someone else, and for some strange reason, I can't hear them anymore. :laugh: Maybe I'll hear them again on the Golf Course after I retire in a few years at 55.

So people like Scalia have been saying and thinking that way for Centuries, and I don't care if they live their entire lives and die ignorant. :grin:

I would be willing to bet that Scalia, in all his ignorance, can spell H-E-A-R-D.

[donttread]

Perpetuating discrimination is never a good thing. Let everyone compete at the same level and let the best candidates get accepted into the top schools. If you can't compete without special treatment, you aren't ready for that school.

Yes, AA is the very definition of discrimination

[leekohler2]

Were you admitted to these schools based upon AA or your own merits?

Wow...just wow.

[HoneyBadger]

Faux outrage at a politically incorrect question?

[TrueBlue]

Guy's an ass.
Well after all, he's a Conservative. But that's actually synonymous..

[decedent]

Faux outrage at a politically incorrect question?

Their outrage seems pretty real to me.

[Cigar]

Were you admitted to these schools based upon AA or your own merits?

I took a test and passed it, just like anyone else.

[Cigar]

I would be willing to bet that Scalia, in all his ignorance, can spell H-E-A-R-D.

I would be willing to bet that Scalia & Cletus, in all their intelligence, couldn't last thirty minutes in a remedial Physics or Software Engineering class; after they spelled their own name correctly of course.

Your move Buffy ... :grin:

[Adelaide]

Extremely poorly phrased, which, unfortunately, it's easier to see in hindsight.

Of course if you're accepting students for something other than their qualifications, there is the very real risk that they won't be able to keep up with coursework, exams, essays and so forth. The pace of university as compared to college (or elite universities as compared to less elite universities/colleges) is much different, as is how you learn the information and often whether you get practical or theoretical experience.

[Mister D]

Extremely poorly phrased, which, unfortunately, it's easier to see in hindsight.

Of course if you're accepting students for something other than their qualifications, there is the very real risk that they won't be able to keep up with coursework, exams, essays and so forth. The pace of university as compared to college (or elite universities as compared to less elite universities/colleges) is much different, as is how you learn the information and often whether you get practical or theoretical experience.

The poor academic performance of blacks demonstrates that risk quite well. The complaints here are kind of silly.

/Thread

[Cletus]

I would be willing to bet that Scalia & @Cletus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1708), in all their intelligence, couldn't last thirty minutes in a remedial Physics or Software Engineering class; after they spelled their own name correctly of course.

Your move Buffy ... :grin:

I can't speak for Justice Scalia, but in my case, you are probably correct UNLESS I had an interest in the subject. In which case, there is absolutely no doubt that I could and would excel in it.

I always get a kick out of people who pull some specialized field of study out of their fourth point of contact and say "Well, you couldn't do this". Even better are the ones who throw out a sample problem from a specialized field and then puff their chests out because they know the answer.

I have no doubt I could do the same thing to you, but all it would accomplish is to make me look as feeble as your attempt made you look. :grin:

[Safety]

He certainly could of phrased it better but there is a lot of truth there. Anytime you accept students or employ people less qualified than those you reject you run a higher risk of putting them in a situation they cannot handle. Not because they're black, but because they are the most qualified applicants

Well, for one, it's easy to pick out the AA students referenced here because they are black and critique their performance, whereas other students who don't perform well are treated on a case by case basis. Even given the fact that white females are one of the biggest beneficiaries of AA, is their performance highlighted to a point where it is suggested that they should attend a lower class school?

[Cletus]

Well, for one, it's easy to pick out the AA students referenced here because they are black and critique their performance, whereas other students who don't perform well are treated on a case by case basis. Even given the fact that white females are one of the biggest beneficiaries of AA, is their performance highlighted to a point where it is suggested that they should attend a lower class school?

It might be under other circumstances, but this case is specifically about racial quotas.

[Safety]

It might be under other circumstances, but this case is specifically about racial quotas.

Yes, because the majority of the time, circumstances are categorized by the person making the comparison or comment.

[Mac-7]

Well after all, he's a Conservative. But that's actually synonymous..


The best student in my public high school graduating class attended Rice University in Houston.

she told me almost all the kids there came from expensive private prep schools and were far ahead of her.

Rice is comparable to the Ivy League and prestigous institutions like UC Berkley.

S is just telling the truth as it applies to most black students

[Mister D]

Well, for one, it's easy to pick out the AA students referenced here because they are black and critique their performance, whereas other students who don't perform well are treated on a case by case basis. Even given the fact that white females are one of the biggest beneficiaries of AA, is their performance highlighted to a point where it is suggested that they should attend a lower class school?

No, but that's because they don't have a high drop out rate and are, generally speaking, much better prepared. I understand your objection but this is really something yuo should take up with progressives and egalitarians. They're the ones worried about the performance of blacks relative to whites.

[Safety]

The best student in my public high school graduating class attended Rice University in Houston.

she told me almost all the kids there came from expensive private prep schools and were far ahead of her.

Rice is comparable to the Ivy League and prestigous institutions like UC Berkley.

S is just telling the truth as it applies to most black students

There is no doubt that it may be true, however, it would be akin to pointing out blacks are more profiled for getting stopped more often than other groups. Does that mean blacks should not drive cars?

[Safety]

No, but that's because they don't have a high drop out rate and are, generally speaking, much better prepared. I understand your objection but this is really something yuo should take up with progressives and egalitarians. They're the ones worried about the performance of blacks relative to whites.

They are better prepared, but does the end justify the means? Are the drop out rates for blacks increasing or decreasing?

[Cletus]

Yes, because the majority of the time, circumstances are categorized by the person making the comparison or comment.

I am not sure what you mean by that.

In this specific case on which Scalia was commenting, the issue before the Court concerned racial quotas. Therefore, it makes sense that comments would be focused on racial quotas. If the Court was hearing a case on gender quotas, I would expect to see comments about gender quotas, not race.

What Scalia said was awkward and not well phrased, but it wasn't inappropriate within the context of this particular issue.

[Mister D]

They are better prepared, but does the end justify the means? Are the drop out rates for blacks increasing or decreasing?

Are standards increasing or decreasing...

That asked, black graduation have improved but the gap remains as stubborn as ever. My point is that the egalitarians want to eliminate this gap. That's the primary reason why black performance comes up so often. IOW, it's not guys like Cletus and I.

[donttread]

Wow...just wow.

Legit question. He seems like a smart fella and I'm betting he didn't need AA to get into college

[donttread]

I took a test and passed it, just like anyone else.


So even being black , even back then when you produced results you reaped the rewards without any special "points". Amazing how that works, eh

[Tahuyaman]

Guy's an ass.


Hes telling the truth.

[Common]

Scalia and the entire Scotus sucks, its a worthless partisan biproduct of partisan Presidents. How can you have any respect for the insitution or the justices when you know exactly how they are going to vote on a case before they even agree to hear it.

[Standing Wolf]

Such observations, about Black students performing poorly, are made all of the time by Black activists and those who make a living from stirring up racial animosity. Had he been disposed to do so, Scalia could have made his statement perfectly acceptable to the folks who are now using it to label him a racist. All he would have had to do was add, "Of course, the reason that Black students fare poorly at the more elite colleges and universities is that racist policies in funding predominately Black schools cripple their chances before they even get there. More tax dollars need to be put into inner city schools, and minority students need to be provided "Safe Zones" where they can study, learn and excel without the distractions of conflicting opinions and values. In other words, White racism is the ultimate cause."

[Mister D]

Hes telling the truth.

It's like I always say: when the truth is racist it's time to reconsider things.

[Don]

What would happen if the university application only asked for the school data and the students name? They would have no idea what "race" the student was. The top qualifiers would get in, all the others would have to look elsewhere. That way any minorities admitted would be there by merit. I think affirmative action is a slap in the face to minorities. Its like you are telling them they are too stupid to get an education or job without government help. And what about less than stellar non minorities? With affirmative action they should get some consideration.

[donttread]

What would happen if the university application only asked for the school data and the students name? They would have no idea what "race" the student was. The top qualifiers would get in, all the others would have to look elsewhere. That way any minorities admitted would be there by merit. I think affirmative action is a slap in the face to minorities. Its like you are telling them they are too stupid to get an education or job without government help. And what about less than stellar non minorities? With affirmative action they should get some consideration.

Among the PC vs. right wingers a voice of reason. Careful, that could be contagious. Brilliant idea

[Cletus]

What would happen if the university application only asked for the school data and the students name? They would have no idea what "race" the student was. The top qualifiers would get in, all the others would have to look elsewhere.

I have been suggesting that for years. Eliminate "Race" from applications and make hiring or acceptance decisions on merit and merit alone.

[Safety]

Are standards increasing or decreasing...

That asked, black graduation have improved but the gap remains as stubborn as ever. My point is that the egalitarians want to eliminate this gap. That's the primary reason why black performance comes up so often. IOW, it's not guys like Cletus and I.

Yes there is a gap, as it has been addressed by me before. It didn't get there because of events that happened in the last 7 years or even 20 years ago. It was created by events that transpired generations and generations ago.

Nonetheless, schools are the institutions that choose to implement quotas based upon their desire to reflect the demographics of society....a lot of people would say that is the free market at work.

[Safety]

I am not sure what you mean by that.

In this specific case on which Scalia was commenting, the issue before the Court concerned racial quotas. Therefore, it makes sense that comments would be focused on racial quotas. If the Court was hearing a case on gender quotas, I would expect to see comments about gender quotas, not race.

What Scalia said was awkward and not well phrased, but it wasn't inappropriate within the context of this particular issue.

The difference in speaking about racial quotas and gender quotas would be that more than 50% of society would be the target, and not 13%.

[Safety]

I have been suggesting that for years. Eliminate "Race" from applications and make hiring or acceptance decisions on merit and merit alone.

If things were different and we didn't have the history we had today, sure that would be the best solution. That would also mean eliminating the legacy status for privileged students.

[Cletus]

The difference in speaking about racial quotas and gender quotas would be that more than 50% of society would be the target, and not 13%.

Still, you have to place Scalia's comments in context. The case he was addressing was specifically about RACIAL quotas and had nothing to do with gender. It would not have made sense for him to talk about anything but race.

[Tahuyaman]

Black students are struggling to keep up in the elite universities.


You can't speak that truth without being called a racist.

[Tahuyaman]

Scalia and the entire Scotus sucks, its a worthless partisan biproduct of partisan Presidents. How can you have any respect for the insitution or the justices when you know exactly how they are going to vote on a case before they even agree to hear it.

What is the alternative? How are we supposed to ensure our government does not violate its constitutional restraints?

[Safety]

Still, you have to place Scalia's comments in context. The case he was addressing was specifically about RACIAL quotas and had nothing to do with gender. It would not have made sense for him to talk about anything but race.

Yes, in this case he was speaking about racial quotas. There should not be quotas based upon race, but social economic status.

[Safety]

You can't speak that truth without being called a racist.

I must have missed where someone here said he was racist for what he said, where was it?

[Tahuyaman]

It's like I always say: when the truth is racist it's time to reconsider things.

The truth isn't racists. Racists twist or misuse the the truth.

Scalia is simply stating the truth about how liberals are doing harm to the people they think they are helping

[Tahuyaman]

I must have missed where someone here said he was racist for what he said, where was it?


It's coming. Be patient.

[Cigar]

I can't speak for Justice Scalia, but in my case, you are probably correct UNLESS I had an interest in the subject. In which case, there is absolutely no doubt that I could and would excel in it.

I always get a kick out of people who pull some specialized field of study out of their fourth point of contact and say "Well, you couldn't do this". Even better are the ones who throw out a sample problem from a specialized field and then puff their chests out because they know the answer.

I have no doubt I could do the same thing to you, but all it would accomplish is to make me look as feeble as your attempt made you look. :grin:

I have openings ... great benefits, work from home when you're not traveling to clients sites.

I can use a good Ruby on Rails / Cucumber Developer for Test Automation ... $40 to 50 pet hour. Just basic web and back-end development.

When do you start?

[Cletus]

Yes, in this case he was speaking about racial quotas. There should not be quotas based upon race, but social economic status.

I don't think there should be quotas, at all. Not for socioeconomic status, not for race, not for gender, not for veteran status... I think the same standards of admission should apply to all and those standards should be based on performance.

[Cletus]

I have openings ... great benefits, work from home when you're not traveling to clients sites.

I can use a good Ruby on Rails / Cucumber Developer for Test Automation ... $40 to 50 pet hour. Just basic web and back-end development.

When do you start?


Why would I be interested?

[leekohler2]

It's coming. Be patient.

In other words- no one said it.


I have openings ... great benefits, work from home when you're not traveling to clients sites.

I can use a good Ruby on Rails / Cucumber Developer for Test Automation ... $40 to 50 pet hour. Just basic web and back-end development.

When do you start?

Need a Senior Art Director or Production Artist? :D

[leekohler2]

Why would I be interested?

The money is decent, that's why. ;)

[Safety]

I don't think there should be quotas, at all. Not for socioeconomic status, not for race, not for gender, not for veteran status... I think the same standards of admission should apply to all and those standards should be based on performance.

For education, I disagree. If the cycle of poverty is to be broken and addressed, socioeconomic status should be considered.

[Cletus]

For education, I disagree. If the cycle of poverty is to be broken and addressed, socioeconomic status should be considered.

That is what scholarships are for.

I am talking strictly about admission standards.

[Cigar]

In other words- no one said it.



Need a Senior Art Director or Production Artist? :D

Naa, but I'll keep you in mind. :wink:

[Mister D]

Yes there is a gap, as it has been addressed by me before. It didn't get there because of events that happened in the last 7 years or even 20 years ago. It was created by events that transpired generations and generations ago.

Nonetheless, schools are the institutions that choose to implement quotas based upon their desire to reflect the demographics of society....a lot of people would say that is the free market at work.

This is part of the problem. Actually, it's at the root of the problem. The assumption implicit in that remark is that if it wasn't for some external factor no gap would exist.

Free markets are nonsense but, in any case, that wouldn't be the free market at work. That would be ideology at work. Obviously.

[Cigar]

Yes there is a gap, as it has been addressed by me before. It didn't get there because of events that happened in the last 7 years or even 20 years ago. It was created by events that transpired generations and generations ago.

Nonetheless, schools are the institutions that choose to implement quotas based upon their desire to reflect the demographics of society....a lot of people would say that is the free market at work.

The fact that in the year 2015 you still have to explain that to Adults, just confirms that history isn't important to some people. After all, it doesn't effect them, so who cares?

[Mac-7]

There is no doubt that it may be true, however, it would be akin to pointing out blacks are more profiled for getting stopped more often than other groups. Does that mean blacks should not drive cars?

Most white kids are not qualified to attend Harvard either

[Mister D]

The fact that in the year 2015 you still have to explain that to Adults, just confirms that history isn't important to some people. After all, it doesn't effect them, so who cares?

Let Safety do the talking. Don't you have a successful business to run? :roflmao:

[leekohler2]

Naa, but I'll keep you in mind. :wink:

Thanks. ;)

[Safety]

Most white kids are not qualified to attend Harvard either

And a good number that get accepted don't finish either.

[Tahuyaman]

In other words- no one said it.

like I said, be patient. The usual suspects are thinking it. Just give them time. It'll come.

[Safety]

This is part of the problem. Actually, it's at the root of the problem. The assumption implicit in that remark is that if it wasn't for some external factor no gap would exist.

It can't be linked to a single event, more like several events or reasons grouped together.


Free markets are nonsense but, in any case, that wouldn't be the free market at work. That would be ideology at work. Obviously.

Free market is the argument I hear whenever people argue for no government intrusion on business's right to refuse service to anyone of a particular group.

[Mister D]

It can't be linked to a single event, more like several events or reasons grouped together.



Free market is the argument I hear whenever people argue for no government intrusion on business's right to refuse service to anyone of a particular group.

I don't think the significant remains of this gap have anything to do with events but are completely a matter of culture and/or biology.

You mean private property rights not free markets.

[Cigar]

Most white kids are not qualified to attend Harvard either

Not all classes at Harvard are difficult, they are well known for Medical, Business and Law.

[Cigar]

There's nothing like getting the in dept skinny from experts. :laugh:

[Standing Wolf]

Nonetheless, schools are the institutions that choose to implement quotas based upon their desire to reflect the demographics of society....a lot of people would say that is the free market at work.

If those schools were 100% privately funded, those people might have a point.

[Cigar]

Those People ... the more things change, the more they stay the same :laugh:

Oh well, these things have been said for Centuries from Dinosaurs

[Tahuyaman]

So, seeing as though Scalia is speaking the truth, why do so many here criticize him for speaking it?

[Mister D]

Those People ... the more things change, the more they stay the same :laugh:

Oh well, these things have been said for Centuries from Dinosaurs

He's not talking about black people. :laugh: Seriously, you're not helping the cause. Let Safety do the talking. You just confirm everyone's...well you know.

[Standing Wolf]

So, seeing as though Scalia is speaking the truth, why do so many here criticize him for speaking it?

Political correctness is not always about what is being said; sometimes it's about who is saying it. Scalia has a reputation - deservedly - for being way out near, if not actually on, the Right-wing fringe on many issues; therefore, it is assumed by many folks that he is a White racist. Consequently, nearly anything the man could possibly say, touching on racial matters, is classified as coming from a racist perspective.

[Chris]

I don't like Scalia but what he said is true.


Well, that caused a freakout on the left, where a number of folks overinterpreted this to mean that Scalia was saying that all blacks belong at “slower” schools (as distinct from those blacks who get into UT-Austin despite disqualifyingly low grades, because of affirmative action). The freakout seemed also based on the presumption that there is no basis for what Scalia said.

In fact, there is. In the Washington Post today, Yanan Wang explains that there is research indicating that admitting black students to academic programs for which they lack adequate preparation hurts them. There is research data to dispute this, but the point is, Scalia didn’t make this up.

@ Freaking Out Over Scalia (http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/freaking-out-over-scalia/)

[Tahuyaman]

Political correctness is not always about what is being said; sometimes it's about who is saying it. Scalia has a reputation - deservedly - for being way out near, if not actually on, the Right-wing fringe on many issues; therefore, it is assumed by many folks that he is a White racist. Consequently, nearly anything the man could possibly say, touching on racial matters, is classified as coming from a racist perspective.

Scalia is a struck constructionist. He's on the side of the constitution and liberals generally find no value in holding that position.

He's also perhaps by far, the most intelligent member of the court.

[Chris]

Scalia is a struck constructionist. He's on the side of the constitution and liberals generally find no value in holding that position.

He's also perhaps by far, the most intelligent member of the court.

Sort of an aside but originalists or textualists are strict constitutionalists, constructionists look to other sources. Living documentalists look even further astray.

[Tahuyaman]

I don't believe you know what you are talking about on this one.

[Cletus]

Political correctness is not always about what is being said; sometimes it's about who is saying it. Scalia has a reputation - deservedly - for being way out near, if not actually on, the Right-wing fringe on many issues; therefore, it is assumed by many folks that he is a White racist. Consequently, nearly anything the man could possibly say, touching on racial matters, is classified as coming from a racist perspective.

Yeah, demanding government adhere to the Constitution will get you labeled as "Right Wing Fringe" every time.

[Cigar]

I don't like Scalia but what he said is true.



@ Freaking Out Over Scalia (http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/freaking-out-over-scalia/)

He's a Dinosaur and his views are not surprising at all.

He's like the Old Uncle at the party, feed him some food, stick him in a room with a TV, and check on him every other hour for bathroom breaks. :laugh:

[Tahuyaman]

Yeah, demanding government adhere to the Constitution will get you labeled as "Right Wing Fringe" every time.


That is a sad fact

[Tahuyaman]

He's a Dinosaur and his views are not surprising at all.

He's like the Old Uncle at the party, feed him some food, stick him in a room with a TV, and check on him every other hour for bathroom breaks. :laugh:

yep. He's a dinosaur. The idea that the constitution should still be thought of as a document which limits the power of government is an idea which is no longer valid...... Huh?

How do we develop such idiocy in modern America?

[Chris]

He's a Dinosaur and his views are not surprising at all.

He's like the Old Uncle at the party, feed him some food, stick him in a room with a TV, and check on him every other hour for bathroom breaks. :laugh:

His views nonetheless are based on scientific studies.

[Chris]

I don't believe you know what you are talking about on this one.

See Originalism: A Quarter-Century of Debate, Steven G. Calabresi (Editor), chapter 1, speech by Edwin Meese.

[Cigar]

Yep. Harry Reid "went there"

"The only difference between the ideas endorsed by Trump and Scalia is that Scalia has a robe and a lifetime appointment."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/harry-reid-scalia-racist_56698f1ae4b0f290e5221cbd


:applause::applause::applause::applause:

[Safety]

So, what does Clarence Thomas have to say about it?

[Tahuyaman]

So, what does Clarence Thomas have to say about it?

more than likely he agrees with Scalia. Thomas is a pretty intelligent dude.

[Safety]

more than likely he agrees with Scalia. Thomas is a pretty intelligent dude.

He is, he should be intelligent enough to know that a form of AA allowed him to be where he is today.

[HoneyBadger]

So, what does Clarence Thomas have to say about it?

I doubt he's in favor. His own experiences showed him most elitist whites in favor of AA were really bigoted, paternalistic jackasses.

[Tahuyaman]

He is, he should be intelligent enough to know that a form of AA allowed him to be where he is today.

Be specific and tell me how AA helped Thomas achieve his status in life.

[Safety]

Be specific and tell me how AA helped Thomas achieve his status in life.

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/54806-A-word-with-no-real-value-anymore?p=1361496&viewfull=1#post1361496

[Tahuyaman]

Be specific and tell me how AA helped Thomas achieve his status in life.


http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/54806-A-word-with-no-real-value-anymore?p=1361496&viewfull=1#post1361496


So he benefitted from AA because he's a black man who was recruited for a specific job he was qualified to do?

Do you think all successful black people only achieved their success because of AA?

[Tahuyaman]

Liberals seem to use skin color as a way to base their expectations of an individual.

[Safety]

So he benefitted from AA because he's a black man who was recruited for a specific job he was qualified to do?

Do you think all successful black people only achieved their success because of AA?

Rev. Brooks went around the east coast looking for african-american men to recruit for the Holy Cross school, to offer them an opportunity they otherwise would not have received. If he didn't go around looking for black men, you think Thomas would be where he is today?

He benefited from exactly what AA was created to do. There is no amount of spin that can argue anything different.

[Safety]

Liberals seem to use skin color as a way to base their expectations of an individual.

Conservatives (at least on the internet) seem to base actions or perceived actions of individuals based upon skin color or religion.

[Tahuyaman]

Liberals subscribe to the idea of " the bigotry of low expectations".

[Tahuyaman]

Conservatives (at least on the internet) seem to base actions or perceived actions of individuals based upon skin color or religion.

Really? In reality, it's just the opposite. You assume that all successful black people only achieved their success because elitist whites gave them preferential treatment.

Liberals are bigots.

[Cigar]

Conservatives (at least on the internet) seem to base actions or perceived actions of individuals based upon skin color or religion.

I was taught at an early age, to use their own false perceptions as my advantage over them. :wink:

[Safety]

Liberals subscribe to the idea of " the bigotry of low expectations".

Catchy phrase. History is a subject that many here seem to not quite understand.

LoL, low expectations.....bootstraps.....entitlements.....2 016 will be an interesting year no doubt.

[Safety]

Really? In reality, it's just the opposite. You assume that all successful black people only achieved their success because elitist whites gave them preferential treatment.

Liberals are bigots.

I'm not the one that is in some sort of alternate dimension that thinks how someone who benefited from being offered a chance to prove them-self and succeeding, is somehow "bigotry of low expectations". But hey, it's whatever you have to tell yourself.

[Chris]

Conservatives (at least on the internet) seem to base actions or perceived actions of individuals based upon skin color or religion.

Oh, come on, just so-called conservatives? I think a lot of people, regardless politics, do that.

[Safety]

Oh, come on, just so-called conservatives? I think a lot of people, regardless politics, do that.

I didn't say "just", but lets remember all the thug threads and obama voters....

The numbers are not really even close as to which ones dish out the rhetoric in regards to race.

[Tahuyaman]

I'm not the one that is in some sort of alternate dimension that thinks how someone who benefited from being offered a chance to prove them-self and succeeding, is somehow "bigotry of low expectations". But hey, it's whatever you have to tell yourself.


If that's the case, you aren't nearly as bright as you seem to think you are.

[Cigar]

I've never really cared what people like Scalia thought or believed ... they're not me, they didn't live my life, nor have they lived in the same world as me. I've gotten what wanted and earned what I need, and I've move forward into the future.

People like Scalia are still living in the past and will eventually die in that same space.

[Safety]

If that's the case, you aren't nearly as bright as you seem to think you are.

Um...great rebuttal?

[Common]

Higher Education in america is what creates the caste system and its not just for racial reasons its class reasons.

The rich dont want the trash to be able to afford to go their schools, like harvard that is beyond the capability of most americans to pay.

Affirmative action piss' people off because it allows people they dont want to be able to get into some institutions.
It piss' off non rich white people that STRUGGLE an.d suffer and put their homes on the line and incur great debt with second mortgages to get their kids through college

I agree affirmative action as it is now has outlived its usefulness and needs to be changed but not done away with. People rage about people having no drive or desire to get out of poverty, people going to school with affirmative action HAVE drive and the willingness to help themselves and giving them a hand doing that shouldnt piss anyone off, unless theres underlying other reasons.

If we dont help people that cant possibly get into college then DONT BITCH about McDonalds workers and Walmart workers getting food stamps and housing assistance and heating assistance.

The same people rage about abortion than Rage about having to pay for unwanted kids for 20 yrs.

We need to start compromising on all issues because all this raging back and forth has been going on for my entire life and nothings changed in 50 yrs.

[Safety]

Higher Education in america is what creates the caste system and its not just for racial reasons its class reasons.

The rich dont want the trash to be able to afford to go their schools, like harvard that is beyond the capability of most americans to pay.

Affirmative action piss' people off because it allows people they dont want to be able to get into some institutions.
It piss' off non rich white people that STRUGGLE an.d suffer and put their homes on the line and incur great debt with second mortgages to get their kids through college

I agree affirmative action as it is now has outlived its usefulness and needs to be changed but not done away with. People rage about people having no drive or desire to get out of poverty, people going to school with affirmative action HAVE drive and the willingness to help themselves and giving them a hand doing that shouldnt piss anyone off, unless theres underlying other reasons.

If we dont help people that cant possibly get into college then DONT BITCH about McDonalds workers and Walmart workers getting food stamps and housing assistance and heating assistance.

The same people rage about abortion than Rage about having to pay for unwanted kids for 20 yrs.

We need to start compromising on all issues because all this raging back and forth has been going on for my entire life and nothings changed in 50 yrs.

^^^ pretty much this.

[Cigar]

Higher Education in america is what creates the caste system and its not just for racial reasons its class reasons.

The rich dont want the trash to be able to afford to go their schools, like harvard that is beyond the capability of most americans to pay.

Affirmative action piss' people off because it allows people they dont want to be able to get into some institutions.
It piss' off non rich white people that STRUGGLE an.d suffer and put their homes on the line and incur great debt with second mortgages to get their kids through college

I agree affirmative action as it is now has outlived its usefulness and needs to be changed but not done away with. People rage about people having no drive or desire to get out of poverty, people going to school with affirmative action HAVE drive and the willingness to help themselves and giving them a hand doing that shouldnt piss anyone off, unless theres underlying other reasons.

If we dont help people that cant possibly get into college then DONT $#@! about McDonalds workers and Walmart workers getting food stamps and housing assistance and heating assistance.

The same people rage about abortion than Rage about having to pay for unwanted kids for 20 yrs.

We need to start compromising on all issues because all this raging back and forth has been going on for my entire life and nothings changed in 50 yrs.

I remember this Hot Milf was in my Physics-101 Level Complex Behavior class, and she told me she just need to get away from the kinds for while. I said maybe I'll see you next semester ... needless to say, I didn't.

Should have tapped it when I had a chance. :laugh:

[Tahuyaman]

Um...great rebuttal?


Is that a question or a comment?

[Cletus]

So, what does Clarence Thomas have to say about it?

Justice Thomas is very critical of AA.

[Tahuyaman]

.....The rich dont want the trash to be able to afford to go their schools,.....


That's absolute nonsense.

[Safety]

Justice Thomas is very critical of AA.

I know, that was my point. Just like Rubio and Cruz are critical of immigration.

You made it, great, kick the ladder away to prevent others from doing the same.

[Cigar]

Justice Thomas is very critical of AA.

Thomas hasn't said anything of consequence since he's been on the Job ... can you remember anything? :laugh:

[Cigar]

I know, that was my point. Just like Rubio and Cruz are critical of immigration.

You made it, great, kick the ladder away to prevent others from doing the same.

That's ok, there's special place in hell for people like that, and it's no were near the window with a breeze. :laugh:

[Cletus]

Liberals subscribe to the idea of " the bigotry of low expectations".

Thomas has actually written about this. He has talked about how Affirmative Action actually made it harder for to succeed as a lawyer and a jurist because people (generally those who spoke most loudly in support of AA) assumed he was held to a lower standard in Yale. He has written about how it affected both professionally and personally.

[Cletus]

I know, that was my point. Just like Rubio and Cruz are critical of immigration.

You made it, great, kick the ladder away to prevent others from doing the same.

That is not his sentiment, at all.

[Cigar]

Thomas has actually written about this. He has talked about how Affirmative Action actually made it harder for to succeed as a lawyer and a jurist because people (generally those who spoke most loudly in support of AA) assumed he was held to a lower standard in Yale. He has written about how it affected both professionally and personally.

Well ... if it made it harder to succeed for Justice Thomas, then obviously that applies to all the other 45 Million African Americans ...

Case Closed. :laugh:

[Cletus]

I know, that was my point. Just like Rubio and Cruz are critical of immigration.

You made it, great, kick the ladder away to prevent others from doing the same.

I also believe you are very wrong about Cruz and Rubio and their positions on immigration. I KNOW you are wrong about Cruz and since I only pay minimal attention to Rubio, I am guessing that his views are similar to those of Cruz on this subject.

Cruz is not critical of immigration. Cruz is critical of ILLEGAL immigration, as every American should be.

[Cletus]

Well ... if it made it harder to succeed for Justice Thomas, then obviously that applies to all the other 45 Million African Americans ...

Case Closed. :laugh:


It is really a shame that you are not nearly as bright or clever as you think you are. If you were, you might actually be slightly interesting.

[Tahuyaman]

Thomas has actually written about this. He has talked about how Affirmative Action actually made it harder for to succeed as a lawyer and a jurist because people (generally those who spoke most loudly in support of AA) assumed he was held to a lower standard in Yale. He has written about how it affected both professionally and personally.


Absolutely.

[Safety]

That is not his sentiment, at all.

He was worried about what his peers thought of him at an all white school, after he was selected to attend the school because of his race....but he doesn't care what people think of him when he makes decisions that affect others from having the same chances he took advantage of?

Seems legit.

[Tahuyaman]

It is really a shame that you are not nearly as bright or clever as you think you are. If you were, you might actually be slightly interesting.

Cigar usually misses the point being made.

[Cigar]

It is really a shame that you are not nearly as bright or clever as you think you are. If you were, you might actually be slightly interesting.

Is that your best rebuttal to my statement above or would you like another opportunity?

[Tahuyaman]

That's ok, there's special place in hell for people like that, and it's no were near the window with a breeze. :laugh:


This guy employs the most unique way to destroy the English language I've ever seen.

[silvereyes]

Be specific and tell me how AA helped Thomas achieve his status in life.

Got him into Yale. Even he admits that.

[Tahuyaman]

Got him into Yale. Even he admits that.

Do you think AA helped him just because he's black and of course all blacks need help to be successful?

[Cigar]

Got him into Yale. Even he admits that.

I don't think anyone here is questioning Justus Thomas or Justice Scalia's efforts, achievements or accomplishments.

I just wish they would return the favor. :wink:

[Cletus]

He was worried about what his peers thought of him at an all white school, after he was selected to attend the school because of his race....but he doesn't care what people think of him when he makes decisions that affect others from having the same chances he took advantage of?

Seems legit.

That is not what he said. He said that for years, including up to the time he was selected for the Supreme Court and even after he assumed the bench, people have looked at him as less qualified than his peers because of AA. He has also said that the absolute worst for doing so were those who were the biggest advocates of AA. They work on the assumption that blacks and other minorities could not succeed without the assistance of government.

[Cletus]

This guy employs the most unique way to destroy the English language I've ever seen.

He is one of those guys who will talk long and frequently about his "advanced education", but can barely put together a coherent sentence.

[Cigar]

This guy employs the most unique way to destroy the English language I've ever seen.

I didn't invent it and I can use it anyway I want.

[Cigar]

He is one of those guys who will talk long and frequently about his "advanced education", but can barely put together a coherent sentence.

But I can sure as hell write the code you need to use everyday ... can you? :laugh:

[Cletus]

But I can sure as hell write the code you need to use everyday ... can you? :laugh:

I don't need to. That is what drones like you are for.

[Cigar]

I don't need to. That is what drones like you are for.

The Drone Business is doing quite well ... hows your Balance Sheets in comparison :grin:

[Cletus]

The Drone Business is doing quite well ... hows your Balance Sheets in comparison :grin:

Probably quite favorable, plus I have the advantage of actually being able to write and speak the English language effectively.

[Cigar]

Probably quite favorable, plus I have the advantage of actually being able to write and speak the English language effectively.

I use spell checkers for anything relevant or important :laugh:

[Cletus]

I use spell checkers for anything relevant or important :laugh:

Oh... I feel sorry for you.

[Cigar]

Oh... I feel sorry for you.

You have feeling ... I would have never known. :laugh:

[Cletus]

You have feeling ... I would have never known. :laugh:

Just a figure of speech. :wink:

[Safety]

That is not what he said. He said that for years, including up to the time he was selected for the Supreme Court and even after he assumed the bench, people have looked at him as less qualified than his peers because of AA. He has also said that the absolute worst for doing so were those who were the biggest advocates of AA. They work on the assumption that blacks and other minorities could not succeed without the assistance of government.

Yet, the schools are the ones who want to use quotas to increase their diversity, not government.

[Cigar]

Yet, the schools are the ones who want to use quotas to increase their diversity, not government.

Based on the opinions of this country's people and their thoughts and believes of it's own people, it's more than obvious they should rely less on opinions and try to get to know each other. This entire country needs diversity training, because it's carrying far too much outdated baggage.

[Tahuyaman]

He is one of those guys who will talk long and frequently about his "advanced education", but can barely put together a coherent sentence.

Hes a gem, huh?

An accomplished scholar with no command of his native tongue.

[Tahuyaman]

I didn't invent it and I can use it anyway I want.

Change the word use to abuse.

[Common]

That's absolute nonsense.

Coming from you it doesnt mean much and your response means even less

[Tahuyaman]

Coming from you it doesnt mean much and your response means even less

good.

[Chris]

Let's get this thread back on track...

This Dumb, Dishonest Attack On Justice Scalia Takes The Cake (http://thefederalist.com/2015/12/10/this-dumb-dishonest-attack-on-justice-scalia-takes-the-cake/)


The Academic Mismatch Theory

The argument is that students who are (1) not up to a college’s usual admissions standards and (2) nonetheless admitted for reasons wholly unrelated to their academic backgrounds are less likely to have good educational outcomes than if they had gone to a college for which they were more properly prepared and qualified. It’s not a new argument. Yale Law professor Stephen L. Carter alluded to the debate as an ongoing one in his 1992 book “Reflections of An Affirmative Action Baby.” Justice Thomas, concurring in the Court’s previous decision in Fisher two years ago, himself made the argument at length:



Blacks and Hispanics admitted to the University as a result of racial discrimination are, on average, far less prepared than their white and Asian classmates. In the University’s entering class of 2009, for example, among the students admitted outside the Top Ten Percent plan, blacks scored at the 52d percentile of 2009 SAT takers nationwide, while Asians scored at the 93d percentile. ..Blacks had a mean GPA of 2.57 and a mean SAT score of 1524; Hispanics had a mean GPA of 2.83 and a mean SAT score of 1794; whites had a mean GPA of 3.04 and a mean SAT score of 1914; and Asians had a mean GPA of 3.07 and a mean SAT score of 1991….Tellingly, neither the University nor any of the 73 amici briefs in support of racial discrimination has presented a shred of evidence that black and Hispanic students are able to close this substantial gap during their time at the University.

…The University admits minorities who otherwise would have attended less selective colleges where they would have been more evenly matched. But, as a result of the mismatching, many blacks and Hispanics who likely would have excelled at less elite schools are placed in a position where underperformance is all but inevitable because they are less academically prepared than the white and Asian students with whom they must compete. Setting aside the damage wreaked upon the self-confidence of these overmatched students, there is no evidence that they learn more at the University than they would have learned at other schools for which they were better prepared. Indeed, they may learn less.



Thomas rather acidly compared this to claims from proponents of slavery and segregation that they were really just acting in the best interests of African-Americans.

[Bob]

I've herd stuff like this all my life

... even after I got my first degree in Physics from The University of Illinois
... even after I got my second degree in Software Engineering from The Illinois Institute of Technology
... even after I got my Masters degree in Information Systems Management & PMP Certification from Keller

I stop hearing it after I started my own business 14 years ago ... and guess why? Because they're still punching clocks for someone else, and for some strange reason, I can't hear them anymore. :laugh: Maybe I'll hear them again on the Golf Course after I retire in a few years at 55.

So people like Scalia have been saying and thinking that way for Centuries, and I don't care if they live their entire lives and die ignorant. :grin:

Be honest.

Do you really believe you are the typical black guy?

Bernie Vanish, a client of mine in 1972 bought and sold a home using me as his sales agent.

Bernie had a darling black wife. She was a school teacher in an eastern State. CA did not recognize her bona fides till they tested her. She took care of their children as Bernie did his job as a Nuclear Physicist.

But who was the real Bernie? The good guy I knew and admired or the dude that talked Ebonics to some blacks he hired to move him out of the home as he took the new job back east where he had come from?

Seeing Bernie talk ebonics to those blacks sure had me wondering.

Bernie naturally did not contact me once he got back to an eastern state but to this day, I recall him as a fine fine person.

[Safety]

LoL @ typical black guy.

[Chris]

Cigar?!?!?

[Tahuyaman]

LoL @ typical black guy.


Was that as funny as Obama saying that his grandmother was the " typical white person"?

[Bob]

Perpetuating discrimination is never a good thing. Let everyone compete at the same level and let the best candidates get accepted into the top schools. If you can't compete without special treatment, you aren't ready for that school.

If they refuse to say it is fine to give affirmative action to whites, then it is equally bad for blacks.

Good comments ^^^^^ so thanks.

[Safety]

Cigar?!?!?

Aly?!?!

[Chris]

Baba?

[Safety]

Was that as funny as Obama saying that his grandmother was the " typical white person"?

I don't know, ask Obama.

[Tahuyaman]

I don't know, ask Obama.

but I asked you.. Obviously you think a similar comment from someone else is funny. You're not a hypocrite, are you?




Never mind......

[Safety]

but I asked you.. Obviously you think a similar comment from someone else is funny. You're not a hypocrite, are you?




Never mind......

And obviously you have no concept of sarcasm, do you?

Don't answer, it was rhetorical.

[Tahuyaman]

And obviously you have no concept of sarcasm, do you?

Don't answer, it was rhetorical.

You just can't be consistent. Why is that?

[silvereyes]

Be honest.

Do you really believe you are the typical black guy?

Bernie Vanish, a client of mine in 1972 bought and sold a home using me as his sales agent.

Bernie had a darling black wife. She was a school teacher in an eastern State. CA did not recognize her bona fides till they tested her. She took care of their children as Bernie did his job as a Nuclear Physicist.

But who was the real Bernie? The good guy I knew and admired or the dude that talked Ebonics to some blacks he hired to move him out of the home as he took the new job back east where he had come from?

Seeing Bernie talk ebonics to those blacks sure had me wondering.

Bernie naturally did not contact me once he got back to an eastern state but to this day, I recall him as a fine fine person.
If he was truly a fine fine person (your words) who cares which one he was? Better yet: perhaps he was both, and more. A successful PERSON (no race) can dwell in whatever setting he/she is in and do it with aplomb.

[Bob]

If he was truly a fine fine person (your words) who cares which one he was? Better yet: perhaps he was both, and more. A successful PERSON (no race) can dwell in whatever setting he/she is in and do it with aplomb.

Bernie Vanish (hope he is in good health) was very well educated and black. I understand the problem if was held back. But Bernie of high education kept getting promotions. Bernie told me he moved back East due to a better job for him. But he talked like a street black to blacks.

Was he disrespectful to them since he was so well educated silvereyes?

[silvereyes]

Bernie Vanish (hope he is in good health) was very well educated and black. I understand the problem if was held back. But Bernie of high education kept getting promotions. Bernie told me he moved back East due to a better job for him. But he talked like a street black to blacks.

Was he disrespectful to them since he was so well educated silvereyes?
Who said he was? Here's a nice thought: YOU stop judging him.

[maineman]

I would be willing to bet that Scalia, in all his ignorance, can spell H-E-A-R-D.spelling nazis... when that's all they've got... they run with it.

[Safety]

Bernie Vanish (hope he is in good health) was very well educated and black. I understand the problem if was held back. But Bernie of high education kept getting promotions. Bernie told me he moved back East due to a better job for him. But he talked like a street black to blacks.

Was he disrespectful to them since he was so well educated @<a href="http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1218" target="_blank">silvereyes</a>?

Gee, why does someone talk different depending on the audience?


http://youtu.be/NPzt3lbLdYA

Who knows..... :rollseyes:

[silvereyes]

Gee, why does someone talk different depending on the audience?


http://youtu.be/NPzt3lbLdYA

Who knows..... :rollseyes:
I dunno. I kin prolly turn on a Texas drawl iffen I feels up to it. When we go up yonder the road a-piece I hear all kinds of dif'rent talkings.

[Mister D]

spelling nazis... when that's all they've got... they run with it.

I'd bet on another horse, maine. Just some advice. :laugh:

[maineman]

I'd bet on another horse, maine. Just some advice. :laugh:
if I need any lip from you, I rattle my zipper.

[Cletus]

spelling nazis... when that's all they've got... they run with it.

It went right over your head.

I only pointed it out because he had just told us about how well educated he was and his multiple degrees. If you are going to boast, you need to be able to demonstrate that your arrogance is earned.

[Bob]

http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bob http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=1363580#post1363580)
Bernie Vanish (hope he is in good health) was very well educated and black. I understand the problem if was held back. But Bernie of high education kept getting promotions. Bernie told me he moved back East due to a better job for him. But he talked like a street black to blacks.

Was he disrespectful to them since he was so well educated @silvereyes (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1218)?


Who said he was? Here's a nice thought: YOU stop judging him.

You stop first. silvereyes

[silvereyes]

You stop first. silvereyes
Lolololol. I didn't judge your client at all. You, on the other hand....what business is it of yours how he speaks and to whom.

[silvereyes]

It went right over your head.

I only pointed it out because he had just told us about how well educated he was and his multiple degrees. If you are going to boast, you need to be able to demonstrate that your arrogance is earned.
Big whoop. Like me he could be typing so fast it skipped it.

[Bob]

Lolololol. I didn't judge your client at all. You, on the other hand....what business is it of yours how he speaks and to whom.

You judge posters, and this time you ask questions and don't mind your business.

[silvereyes]

You judge posters, and this time you ask questions and don't mind your business.

What the hell? You're delusional. I simply asked....oh fuck it. You're poor pitiful me crap is on blast AGAIN.

[maineman]

It went right over your head.

I only pointed it out because he had just told us about how well educated he was and his multiple degrees. If you are going to boast, you need to be able to demonstrate that your arrogance is earned.

Einstein was a horrible speller. Would you denigrate him if he boasted about the Theory of Relativity and misspelled a word in the process?

[Bob]

What the hell? You're delusional. I simply asked....oh fuck it. You're poor pitiful me crap is on blast AGAIN.

Well, what a display of poor pitiful me crap and delusion. Sorry you had to go over the edge.

[Bob]

Einstein was a horrible speller. Would you denigrate him if he boasted about the Theory of Relativity and misspelled a word in the process?

Einstein's native language was German. Was he a poor speller in that language?

[maineman]

Einstein's native language was German. Was he a poor speller in that language?

yep. spelling wasn't important to him.

One of my favorite quotes of his was, "I hardly ever think in words anymore"

[Cigar]

yep. spelling wasn't important to him.

One of my favorite quotes of his was, "I hardly ever think in words anymore"


It's a typical failed way to distract away from the discussion and shift to attacking the messenger.

Why they deflect to start talking spelling, that's when you know you've won the argument.

[Bob]

yep. spelling wasn't important to him.

One of my favorite quotes of his was, "I hardly ever think in words anymore"

Einstein was in a large crowd of famous people who were poor spellers.

http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com/2012/01/24/15-famous-thinkers-who-couldnt-spell/

Jane Austen may have a place among the literary elites today, but when it came to spelling and grammar she wasn’t too handy with either. Research into her personal letters and manuscripts has exposed numerous errors in spelling and grammar that were corrected later by her early editor, William Gifford. One of her favorite misspellings? She often spelled “scissors” as “scissars.”

[Cletus]

Einstein was a horrible speller. Would you denigrate him if he boasted about the Theory of Relativity and misspelled a word in the process?

Cigar is not Einstein and I do not recall ever reading about Einstein BOASTING about his education and degrees.

Cigar's ego made him a target.

[Chris]

It's a typical failed way to distract away from the discussion and shift to attacking the messenger.

Why they deflect to start talking spelling, that's when you know you've won the argument.

Indeed, one of many ways to distract from discussion.

[Cletus]

It's a typical failed way to distract away from the discussion and shift to attacking the messenger.

Why they deflect to start talking spelling, that's when you know you've won the argument.

Not at all.

First, it is highly doubtful that you would ever be well enough prepared to to cause me to lose an argument. You just haven't got what it takes. That doesn't mean I am particularly good at it. It means you are woefully deficient when it comes to actual discussion of issues of the day.

Second, I never would never have even mentioned your lack of command of the language had you not made a point of openly boasting about your academic achievements. Let's be real here... you have been screwing up the language since way before I ever arrived here and until you decided to tell everyone how smart you are, it was never an issue.

[Cletus]

Indeed, one of many ways to distract from discussion.

Nonsense.