States expanded gun rights

[Bob]

http://news.yahoo.com/states-expanded-gun-rights-sandy-hook-school-massacre-141938677.html

In Kansas, gun owners can now carry concealed weapons without obtaining a license. In Texas, those with permits will soon be able to carry openly in holsters and bring concealed weapons into some college classrooms. And in Arkansas, gun enthusiasts may be able to carry weapons into polling places next year when they vote for president.
Dozens of new state laws have made it easier to obtain guns and carry them in more public places and made it harder for local governments to enact restrictions, according to a review of state legislation by The Associated Press. The number of guns manufactured and sold and the number of permits to carry concealed weapons have also increased, data show.
The trend has been discouraging to some gun-control advocates, even as other states have adopted stricter background checks. Other gun-control supporters say their movement is emboldened by the recent rise of Everytown for Gun Safety, a well-funded group backed by former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg that is becoming influential in some state capitols.

[Matty]

I noticed two open carry states on a recent trip out west. I asked a man in Arizona about the holstered gun on his hip. He said Arizona was an open carry, closed carry, carry it any way you want because we hate Obama state. The other state was Nevada.

[Bob]

I noticed two open carry states on a recent trip out west. I asked a man in Arizona about the holstered gun on his hip. He said Arizona was an open carry, closed carry, carry it any way you want because we hate Obama state. The other state was Nevada.

Two seriously hot states that do not infringe on your gun rights.

[Common]

Theres alot of folks in fla that have concealed carry permits that dont want open carry. If they pass open carry places you carry concealed now can say No more guns. Many retailers do not allow guns because of open carry.

In fla the law being passed now says anyone with a concealed carry permit can open carry and ONLY those with concealed carry permits. I of course have one and I would never open carry, it puts a target on you and I dont see a purpose for open carry.

[Gypsy]

Meanwhile in Connecticut

http://time.com/4144815/connecticut-guns-no-fly-list/

[Cletus]

It will fall with the first Court challenge. It isn't even close to being Constitutional.

[Gypsy]

Have these been overturned?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/04/us/connecticut-gun-law-overhaul/

[Cletus]

Have these been overturned?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/04/us/connecticut-gun-law-overhaul/

My question is "Have they faced a challenge in Court?"

There is a difference in the arguments that would be put forth, though. The order banning people on the no fly list wouldn't even be a law. It would just be an EO. Also, it would effectively strip citizens of their Second Amendment protected right to keep and bear arms and it would do so without due process.

The magazine ban, etcetera supporters would argue that it does not restrict the right to keep and bear arms and therefore should be considered to NOT infringe on the Second Amendment rights of the citizenry. I would disagree, but I could easily see a not particularly bright judge accepting that argument. It would be a tougher fight.

The first one is a slam dunk.

[Peter1469]

The high capacity mag thins is largely not relevant. If you know what you are doing and if you are willing to let your empty mag drop to the ground you can put in a new mag in just over 1-2 seconds.

[Gypsy]

My question is "Have they faced a challenge in Court?"

There is a difference in the arguments that would be put forth, though. The order banning people on the no fly list wouldn't even be a law. It would just be an EO. Also, it would effectively strip citizens of their Second Amendment protected right to keep and bear arms and it would do so without due process.

The magazine ban, etcetera supporters would argue that it does not restrict the right to keep and bear arms and therefore should be considered to NOT infringe on the Second Amendment rights of the citizenry. I would disagree, but I could easily see a not particularly bright judge accepting that argument. It would be a tougher fight.

The first one is a slam dunk.


Again, have any of the above mentioned been overturned?

[Cletus]

Again, have any of the above mentioned been overturned?

I do not even know if they have been challenged. Do you?

[ThaiBoxer]

http://news.yahoo.com/states-expanded-gun-rights-sandy-hook-school-massacre-141938677.html

In Kansas, gun owners can now carry concealed weapons without obtaining a license. In Texas, those with permits will soon be able to carry openly in holsters and bring concealed weapons into some college classrooms. And in Arkansas, gun enthusiasts may be able to carry weapons into polling places next year when they vote for president.
Dozens of new state laws have made it easier to obtain guns and carry them in more public places and made it harder for local governments to enact restrictions, according to a review of state legislation by The Associated Press. The number of guns manufactured and sold and the number of permits to carry concealed weapons have also increased, data show.
The trend has been discouraging to some gun-control advocates, even as other states have adopted stricter background checks. Other gun-control supporters say their movement is emboldened by the recent rise of Everytown for Gun Safety, a well-funded group backed by former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg that is becoming influential in some state capitols.

Just what we need, more hayseeds walking around with weapons they don't know how to use. One more reason to not live in Kansas

[Cletus]

Just what we need, more hayseeds walking around with weapons they don't know how to use. One more reason to not live in Kansas

I am sure Kansas is heartbroken.

[donttread]

Meanwhile in Connecticut

http://time.com/4144815/connecticut-guns-no-fly-list/

Ah , guilty until proven innocent, despite never having been charged with anything. Not exactly what the founders were shooting for

[donttread]

Just what we need, more hayseeds walking around with weapons they don't know how to use. One more reason to not live in Kansas

Hayseeds and hillbillies know how to use guns because we grow up with them. It's the cops that seem to not be able to fire less that 6 or 7 shots at a time

[Bob]

Just what we need, more hayseeds walking around with weapons they don't know how to use. One more reason to not live in Kansas

Actually one of the top seeded rights is to carry weapons. Also those rights are to never be infringed.

I suggest you read the bill of rights.

[ThaiBoxer]

Actually one of the top seeded rights is to carry weapons. Also those rights are to never be infringed.

I suggest you read the bill of rights.

I have and I started a thread on that a few days ago. The Second Amendment says the government has the right to regulate the militia.

[Cletus]

I have and I started a thread on that a few days ago. The Second Amendment says the government has the right to regulate the militia.

Is English your first language?

Do you understand what the words "SHALL NOT" mean when they appear in the Constitution? That is an important question. Think carefully about it before you answer.

[MisterVeritis]

Just what we need, more hayseeds walking around with weapons they don't know how to use. One more reason to not live in Kansas
If you chose to move there I would have to send the Governor a sympathy card.

[donttread]

I have and I started a thread on that a few days ago. The Second Amendment says the government has the right to regulate the militia.

1) You are reading the second incorrectly. Dd you read 9 and 10 and compare the rights the states are supposed to have with the reality today?
2) Do you experience any conflict as an ultar liberal who beats on people as a hobby?

[ThaiBoxer]

Is English your first language?

Well I'm from Hawaii so yeah


Do you understand what the words "SHALL NOT" mean when they appear in the Constitution? That is an important question. Think carefully about it before you answer.

Do you understand what the words "WELL REGULATED" mean when they appear in the Constitution? That is an important question. Think carefully about it before you answer.

[ThaiBoxer]

If you chose to move there I would have to send the Governor a sympathy card.

Why would I move to a state full of redneck hicks? I want to go back to Hawaii, but LA would be cool too.

[Bob]

I have and I started a thread on that a few days ago. The Second Amendment says the government has the right to regulate the militia.

The private carry of arms is not to be infringed. And merely being armed is not how to judge who is in the militia.

For instance, you probably are not in your state military. But you have a right, never to be infringed on, to have arms.

You are welcome for the lesson.

[Cletus]

Well I'm from Hawaii so yeah

One would think that after 19 years, you would have a better command of it.


Do you understand what the words "WELL REGULATED" mean when they appear in the Constitution?

I do, but I would be willing to bet you do not. In order to understand what the phrase means and how it applies to the Second Amendment, it is necessary to understand how it was commonly used at the time the Second Amendment was written. Probably the best way to express it is to say "well regulated", as used in the Second Amendment, simply meant "in good working order". It had nothing to do with controls or restrictions. When the Second was written, it was recognized that it was important for the citizenry to be proficient in the use of arms.

Incidentally, since you tried to weasel out of answering my question, I will give you the answer. Wherever the word "Shall" or the words "Shall not" appear in the Constitution, those are non negotiable COMMANDS to the government... not requests, not suggestions, COMMANDS.

[Cletus]

Why would I move to a state full of redneck hicks? I want to go back to Hawaii, but LA would be cool too.

I lived in Hawaii for a number of years. I left there in 1974 and never saw any reason to go back.

[MisterVeritis]

Well I'm from Hawaii so yeah



Do you understand what the words "WELL REGULATED" mean when they appear in the Constitution? That is an important question. Think carefully about it before you answer.
The right question is "Do you understand the meaning of the words well regulated?"

I do not believe you do.

[domer76]

One would think that after 19 years, you would have a better command of it.



I do, but I would be willing to bet you do not. In order to understand what the phrase means and how it applies to the Second Amendment, it is necessary to understand how it was commonly used at the time the Second Amendment was written. Probably the best way to express it is to say "well regulated", as used in the Second Amendment, simply meant "in good working order". It had nothing to do with controls or restrictions. When the Second was written, it was recognized that it was important for the citizenry to be proficient in the use of arms.

Incidentally, since you tried to weasel out of answering my question, I will give you the answer. Wherever the word "Shall" or the words "Shall not" appear in the Constitution, those are non negotiable COMMANDS to the government... not requests, not suggestions, COMMANDS.

Perhaps you've missed some of the rulings re: the 2A. It has its limitations. To you, your right has been "infringed". To those who actually give the issue some thought, we realize that all rights have some restrictions

[Cletus]

Perhaps you've missed some of the rulings re: the 2A. It has its limitations. To you, your right has been "infringed". To those who actually give the issue some thought, we realize that all rights have some restrictions

The Second has ALWAYS had limitations. Madison himself made specific recommendations for them during the debates on the Second before it was ever ratified.

Do you have any idea what the final opinion was regarding how the Second should be limited? I have said what it was a couple of times already on this forum. Do you know?

[ThaiBoxer]

I lived in Hawaii for a number of years. I left there in 1974 and never saw any reason to go back.

We don't want you back haole.

[Cletus]

We don't want you back haole.

Honi ko'u 'elemu 'oe li'ili'i muli pala kukae.

[AeonPax]

Again, have any of the above mentioned been overturned?
`
You're not going to get a straight answer from these people.

[AeonPax]

Actually one of the top seeded rights is to carry weapons. Also those rights are to never be infringed.I suggest you read the bill of rights.
`
Yes, by the standards of education as set down by the conservative right, all you need to do is read any book once, and you become an instant expert of the topic. Everyone on the right is an expert on the constitution and the bill of rights.

[Chris]

Have these been overturned?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/04/us/connecticut-gun-law-overhaul/

No.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/federal-court-gun-laws_56250954e4b08589ef4816a6

[Chris]

Some of the text from that link:


...Specifically, that analysis consists of a two-step test that first determines whether the contested gun regulation "burdens conduct protected by the Second Amendment," and later weighs whether the restrictions "are substantially related ... to the articulated governmental interest" of preventing gun violence and increasing public safety.

Here, the court accepted that the regulations prohibiting semiautomatic weapons and large-capacity magazines represented a "real" burden on citizens' Second Amendment rights, but ultimately didn't think the burden was particularly severe because the laws didn't "effectively disarm individuals or substantially affect their ability to defend themselves."

...As to the ban on large-capacity magazines, the court upheld it by again pointing to Newtown and the shooter's ability to fire "154 rounds in less than five minutes" -- an observation that was in line with the lower court's finding that "large-capacity magazines result in more shots fired, persons wounded, and wounds per victim than do other gun attacks."

In a small nod to gun rights groups, the appellate court did rule that New York's imposition of a seven-round load limit and Connecticut's prohibition on the Remington 7615, a type of non-semiautomatic, "pump action" rifle, were unconstitutional....

IOW, the interests of the government overrode the interests of the people.

[Chris]

`
You're not going to get a straight answer from these people.

These people?

Did you offer an answer?

[ThaiBoxer]

Honi ko'u 'elemu 'oe li'ili'i muli pala kukae.

Guess I struck a nerve :tongue:

[Cletus]

Guess I struck a nerve :tongue:

No, not really. I am just not overly fond of punks who feel a need to resort to reducing a discussion to matters of race. If you were a man you wouldn't have to do that.

[Chris]

Honi ko'u 'elemu 'oe li'ili'i muli pala kukae.

No cussing in Hawaiian. http://www.youswear.com/index.asp?language=Hawaiian

[Cletus]

`
Yes, by the standards of education as set down by the conservative right, all you need to do is read any book once, and you become an instant expert of the topic. Everyone on the right is an expert on the constitution and the bill of rights.

They are really not difficult to understand. Are you having a problem figuring out what they mean?

[Cletus]

No cussing in Hawaiian. http://www.youswear.com/index.asp?language=Hawaiian

You need to get a life.

[Bob]

`
Yes, by the standards of education as set down by the conservative right, all you need to do is read any book once, and you become an instant expert of the topic. Everyone on the right is an expert on the constitution and the bill of rights.

I won't verify that claim, but in my case the second amendment is a topic hurled at us by the left wingers since Clinton was president. I have read all arguments that make any sense. Still it is in the constitution and as such is law. Gun rights are not to be infringed. A huge help to me is my formal law training while going to college.

What annoys me about the left is they don't understand that the Bill of rights is not about how the Government needs to govern, but protections afforded the citizens that courts will back up.

The second amendment provides protection to citizens.

[ThaiBoxer]

You need to get a life.

And you probably had to look those words up on Google haole :tongue:

[Safety]

You need to get a life.

TB'd for rule 9 violation

[Private Pickle]

TB'd for rule 9 violation

Be consistent. He should be TB'd as well.

TB'd for rule 9 violation

[AeonPax]

They are really not difficult to understand. Are you having a problem figuring out what they mean?
`
I'm just amazed at how gullible some people are.

[AeonPax]

I won't verify that claim, but in my case the second amendment is a topic hurled at us by the left wingers since Clinton was president. I have read all arguments that make any sense. Still it is in the constitution and as such is law. Gun rights are not to be infringed. A huge help to me is my formal law training while going to college. What annoys me about the left is they don't understand that the Bill of rights is not about how the Government needs to govern, but protections afforded the citizens that courts will back up. The second amendment provides protection to citizens.
`
What college might that be?

[Bob]

`
What college might that be?

Law courses taken here.

http://www.ohlone.edu/

Ohlone College Ranked #7 in Two-year SchoolsLocations:

Fremont Campus, 43600 Mission Blvd, Fremont, CA
94539-0390
(510) 659-6000
Newark Campus, 39399 Cherry Street,
Newark, CA 94560-4902
(510) 742-2300
Accreditation:
WAC/ACCJC

This two-year college offers a variety of undergraduate degrees and professional programs, including Certificates of Accomplishment, Certificates of Achievement, associate degrees and associate degrees for transfer. The student government, the Associated Students of Ohlone, organizes events such as sports rallies, tai chi workshops, food outings and poetry slams to promote community participation and networking. The Ohlone Foundation offers up to $150,000 each year to assist students with academic expenses. These funds can be accessed through the OC scholarship application.

[AeonPax]

This two-year college offers a variety of undergraduate degrees and professional programs, including Certificates of Accomplishment, Certificates of Achievement, associate degrees and associate degrees for transfer. The student government, the Associated Students of Ohlone, organizes events such as sports rallies, tai chi workshops, food outings and poetry slams to promote community participation and networking. The Ohlone Foundation offers up to $150,000 each year to assist students with academic expenses. These funds can be accessed through the OC scholarship application.
`
You know, paralegals, is also a two year course at many community colleges throughout the US. I had to take a 16 week course at one, to become a CNA, when I was in college.

[Bob]

`
You know, paralegals, is also a two year course at many community colleges throughout the US. I had to take a 16 week course at one, to become a CNA, when I was in college.

My last days in college were in the 1970s. I took a variety of courses to further my professional career.