new orleans votes to remove statues commemorating traitorous scum

[del]

Lee Circle will lose the statue of its namesake after the New Orleans City Council voted 6-1 Thursday (Dec. 17) to remove four monuments related to the Confederacy (http://topics.nola.com/tag/confederate symbols/) from their prominent perches around the city.

Besides Gen. Robert E. Lee, statues of Gen. P.G.T. Beauregard at the entrance of City Park and Confederate president Jefferson Davis in Mid-City and the obelisk dedicated to the Battle of Liberty Place at the foot of Iberville Street will all come down.

"The time surely comes when (justice) must and will be heard," Mayor Mitch Landrieu told the council as he called for the statues to be put in a museum or a Civil War park. "Members of the council, that day is today. The Confederacy, you see, was on the wrong side of history and humanity."

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/12/confederate_monuments_lee_circ.html#incart_big-photo

better late than never

[Mister D]

What makes them different from Washington, Jefferson et al?

[del]

What makes them different from Washington, Jefferson et al?

they lost. fuck em.

[Chris]

What makes them different from Washington, Jefferson et al?

Nothing, really. Some wish to forget history.

[del]

Nothing, really. Some wish to forget history.

what part of lost eludes you, herodotus?

[Green Arrow]

they lost. fuck em.

So if Washington and Jefferson had lost...fuck 'em too?

[Mister D]

So if Washington and Jefferson had lost...$#@! 'em too?

oops

[del]

So if Washington and Jefferson had lost...fuck 'em too?

i'm not a member of the cult that glorifies the founders, but i will say that unlike the scum that fought for the confederacy, their sole reason for revolting against the crown was not the *right* to own and subjugate other human beings.

but, yeah, if they'd lost- fuck em

[Chris]

what part of lost eludes you, herodotus?

Huh?

[del]

if they'd lost, they might have gotten their own day, like guy fawkes, and like guy fawkes, people would generally say-

who?

fuck em

[Mister D]

They weren't traitors because they won. Thanks France! lol

[Mister D]

i'm not a member of the cult that glorifies the founders, but i will say that unlike the scum that fought for the confederacy, their sole reason for revolting against the crown was not the *right* to own and subjugate other human beings.

but, yeah, if they'd lost- $#@! em

Oh, they were a different kind of traitorous scum. I see. lol

[del]

They weren't traitors because they won. Thanks France! lol

that's exactly right.

they weren't traitors because they won.

[del]

Oh, they were a different kind of traitorous scum. I see. lol

yes, they were the kind of traitorous scum that won.

winners write the history

this really is simple enough that even you should be able to grasp it.

eventually

[Mister D]

yes, they were the kind of traitorous scum that won.

winners write the history

this really is simple enough that even you should be able to grasp it.

eventually

Right. Traitorous scum that wins is the good kind of traitorous scum. lol

[Ethereal]

George the Third called our ancestors traitors for what they did at that time. But they were not traitors in fact, whatever he or his laws may have called them. They were not traitors in fact, because they betrayed nobody, and broke faith with nobody. They were his equals, owing him no allegiance, obedience, nor any other duty, except such as they owed to mankind at large. Their political relations with him had been purely voluntary. They had never pledged their faith to him that they would continue these relations any longer than it should please them to do so; and therefore they broke no faith in parting with him. They simply exercised their natural right of saying to him, and to the English people, that they were under no obligation to continue their political connexion with them, and that, for reasons of their own, they chose to dissolve it.

What was true of our ancestors, is true of revolutionists in general. The monarchs and governments, from whom they choose to separate, attempt to stigmatize them as traitors. But they are not traitors in fact; inasmuch as they betray, and break faith with, no one. Having pledged no faith, they break none. They are simply men, who, for reasons of their own – whether good or bad, wise or unwise, is immaterial – choose to exercise their natural right of dissolving their connexion with the governments under which they have lived. In doing this, they no more commit the crime of treason – which necessarily implies treachery, deceit, breach of faith – than a man commits treason when he chooses to leave a church, or any other voluntary association, with which he has been connected.

This principle was a true one in 1776. It is a true one now. It is the only one on which any rightful government can rest. It is the one on which the Constitution itself professes to rest. If it does not really rest on that basis, it has no right to exist; and it is the duty of every man to raise his hand against it.

If the men of the Revolution designed to incorporate in the Constitution the absurd ideas of allegiance and treason, which they had once repudiated, against which they had fought, and by which the world had been enslaved, they thereby established for themselves an indisputable claim to the disgust and detestation of all mankind.

No Treason - Lysander Spooner (http://praxeology.net/LS-NT-1.htm#no.1)

[Ethereal]

Right. Traitorous scum that wins is the good kind of traitorous scum. lol

Might makes right. Everyone knows that.

[del]

Right. Traitorous scum that wins is the good kind of traitorous scum. lol

you're really not as stupid as you first appear.

kudos

once they won, they were no longer traitorous scum, that being one of the benefits of winning.

unfortunately for marse robert et al, they lost and are relegated to traitorous scum status in perpetuity.

thus endeth the lesson


fuck em

[Ethereal]

I wasn't aware the English language definition of a "traitor" was somehow contingent on whether or not a person was successful in their attempts.

[The Xl]

you're really not as stupid as you first appear.

kudos

once they won, they were no longer traitorous scum, that being one of the benefits of winning.

unfortunately for marse robert et al, they lost and are relegated to traitorous scum status in perpetuity.

thus endeth the lesson


fuck em

That's absolutely retarded logic.

[del]

I wasn't aware the English language definition of a "traitor" was somehow contingent on whether or not a person was successful in their attempts.

i wasn't aware that reality was reflected in dictionaries.

go figure, huh?

[del]

That's absolutely retarded logic.

then you should have no problem following it, corky

[Green Arrow]

I'm glad tonight is the last game of the NFL's "Color Rush" series. The Bucs don't look bad but the Rams look like an advertisement for French's mustard.

[Ethereal]

i wasn't aware that reality was reflected in dictionaries.

go figure, huh?

So you reject the validity of dictionaries.

[Boris The Animal]

Del thinks the US should erect statues of Lenin and Marx

[del]

http://www.bigfishcaught.com/album/Records/recbrook.jpg


gratias agens pro piscibus

vale

[Ethereal]

i wasn't aware that reality was reflected in dictionaries.

go figure, huh?

I'm pretty sure the entire point of a dictionary is to reflect the reality of a particular language. So unless the common English usage of "traitor" has changed recently, I'm not sure what winning has to do with it.

[Mister D]

http://www.bigfishcaught.com/album/Records/recbrook.jpg


gratias agens pro piscibus

vale


There we have it! He reverts to the Cigar defense. Oh get some dignity...

[hanger4]

they lost. fuck em.
The American Indian lost, frick them too ??

[Green Arrow]

I punched Hal Jordan in the shoulder almost exactly four years ago.

It was as high as I could reach and I had to jump just to get there. He proceeded to knock me on my ass with a punch to the shoulder.

True story.

[zelmo1234]

yes, they were the kind of traitorous scum that won.

winners write the history

this really is simple enough that even you should be able to grasp it.

eventually

Well I don't know if most Democrats believe like you do?

Take the American Indians, and the Hispanic people of the southwest. According to you Fuck em' They lost

But it seems to be that the let is constantly telling us that we can't close the border because we stole the land from Mexico? But they lost so why do we care.

[The Xl]

then you should have no problem following it, corky

Lol, you're dumb as fuck and contribute nothing. If it isn't a meaningless comment, it's something beyond stupid.

[Green Arrow]

I respect most of you (except Boris, fuck Boris), but y'all have to realize when you're being trolled.

[The Xl]

The American Indian lost, frick them too ??
Wonderful logic, isn't it?

[zelmo1234]

http://www.bigfishcaught.com/album/Records/recbrook.jpg


gratias agens pro piscibus

vale


Don't know what you said but the fist is sweet.

[hanger4]

I punched Hal Jordan in the shoulder almost exactly four years ago.

It was as high as I could reach and I had to jump just to get there. He proceeded to knock me on my ass with a punch to the shoulder.

True story.
Is Hal that tall or are you that short ??

[Green Arrow]

Is Hal that tall or are you that short ??

It's kind of a combination of both, really. I really am just that short and he's ridiculously tall.

Of course, most people over 5'6" are ridiculously tall to me.

[Peter1469]

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/12/confederate_monuments_lee_circ.html#incart_big-photo

better late than never

There is a confederate museum very close to Lee's Circle.

[Peter1469]

Huh?

He is comparing Mister D to a dead Greek man who is known as the Father of History (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus), as he was the first historian to dump the Homeric style (story telling of history) and treat historical subjects as a method of investigation.

[Common Sense]

You don't see many statues of General Cornwallis in the US...

[Matty]

This too shall pass.

[Tahuyaman]

Political correctness running amok.

[Cigar]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/plQA9w6T2Yw/hqdefault.jpg

[Chris]

that's exactly right.

they weren't traitors because they won.


yes, they were the kind of traitorous scum that won.

winners write the history

this really is simple enough that even you should be able to grasp it.

eventually


Huh?

[Ravens Fan]

I punched @Hal Jordan (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=994) in the shoulder almost exactly four years ago.

It was as high as I could reach and I had to jump just to get there. He proceeded to knock me on my ass with a punch to the shoulder.

True story.

Speaking of Hal, where has he been?

[Mister D]

Huh?

lol

[nathanbforrest45]

The leaders of the Confederacy were not traitors because they did not wish to overthrow the government but to divorce themselves from it as they had the right to do. If one takes the time to read the Federalist Papers they will see that the right to leave the union was freely given. No less a person than John Adams advocated New England secede from the Union in 1820 because it was not serving their needs.

Are the leaders of those countries that are leaving the European Union traitors? There is absolutely no difference between the European Union of today and the United States of America in 1860. In 1860 people were Alabaman's,Ohioan's, New Yorker's first and American's second. To claim Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis and Stonewall Jackson were "traitors" shows a complete and total ignorance of American history.

[nathanbforrest45]

Has the State of Virginia changed the name of Jefferson Davis Highway yet?

[Cletus]

The leaders of the Confederacy were not traitors because they did not wish to overthrow the government but to divorce themselves from it as they had the right to do. If one takes the time to read the Federalist Papers they will see that the right to leave the union was freely given. No less a person than John Adams advocated New England secede from the Union in 1820 because it was not serving their needs.

Are the leaders of those countries that are leaving the European Union traitors? There is absolutely no difference between the European Union of today and the United States of America in 1860. In 1860 people were Alabaman's,Ohioan's, New Yorker's first and American's second. To claim Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis and Stonewall Jackson were "traitors" shows a complete and total ignorance of American history.

Spot on.

[Cletus]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/plQA9w6T2Yw/hqdefault.jpg

To the detriment of the nation.

[Truth Detector]

I find it fascinating that the left has this desire to erase history so that a small group of individuals do not become offended. This is similar to the efforts to erase all inferences to Christ or God by a small rabid minority who stupidly think that the Constitution contains and “separation clause” and not the “establishment clause” that is actually contained in it.

We truly are heading down a very slippery slope in today’s society.

[Tahuyaman]

When it comes to liberals and history, they have two positions. Erase it or re-write it.

[Chloe]

I am admittedly apathetic to this since I have no connection to the south but to pretend that the south wasn't once part of the confederacy and that figures in the confederacy didn't have an impact on cities in the south is a bit weak in my opinion. I don't really care if there are statues of these people or not but getting rid of them won't change the historical fact that they existed and were loved by probably a lot of people at one point and helped shape aspects of even today's south.

[Cigar]

To the detriment of the nation.

So be it ... Burn it Down :riot:

[Green Arrow]

I am admittedly apathetic to this since I have no connection to the south but to pretend that the south wasn't once part of the confederacy and that figures in the confederacy didn't have an impact on cities in the south is a bit weak in my opinion. I don't really care if there are statues of these people or not but getting rid of them won't change the historical fact that they existed and were loved by probably a lot of people at one point and helped shape aspects of even today's south.

In most cases they weren't even bad people, they just believed in an archaic ideal that even Abraham Lincoln shared.

[Green Arrow]

Speaking of Hal, where has he been?

Recovering from a broken arm. Jousting on a bull and shit.

[Tahuyaman]

I am admittedly apathetic to this since I have no connection to the south but to pretend that the south wasn't once part of the confederacy and that figures in the confederacy didn't have an impact on cities in the south is a bit weak in my opinion. I don't really care if there are statues of these people or not but getting rid of them won't change the historical fact that they existed and were loved by probably a lot of people at one point and helped shape aspects of even today's south.


Uh.... Ok.

[Newpublius]

i'm not a member of the cult that glorifies the founders, but i will say that unlike the scum that fought for the confederacy, their sole reason for revolting against the crown was not the *right* to own and subjugate other human beings.

but, yeah, if they'd lost- $#@! em

DoI specifically notes 'inciting domestic insurrection' in it. Do you know what that was? That was the British promising the slaves freedom if they took up with the crown.

[Newpublius]

Lee's Circle in New Orleans is very similar to Columbus Circle in Manhattan, you can look at pictures of both. Should we take that down too? Or how about Washington? From the point of view of slavery, Lee is stained by slavery, no doubt, but more so than Washington? Washington was far deeper into slavery than Lee was. What they're doing is wrong. I hope the Japanese-Americans start circling their wagons over anything with FDR on it.

[Mac-7]

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/12/confederate_monuments_lee_circ.html#incart_big-photo

better late than never

This thread is flamebait.

It belongs in the Hope with the other leftwing America hating bullshit.

Shame on management for leaving it here

[Tahuyaman]

Watching the bed wetting left wing crowd is entertaining.

[Gypsy]

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/12/confederate_monuments_lee_circ.html#incart_big-photo

better late than never

You can't erase history. I agreed with removing the flag but this is ridiculous.

[Chloe]

Uh.... Ok.

What part of what I said is confusing to you exactly?

[Captain Obvious]

What part of what I said is confusing to you exactly?

The coherent part

[Ransom]

Many Observers will consider this city councils vote heroic. On point. About time. But, after they bulldoze 150+ year old statues, they must turn around and walk home through streets of unemployment, corruption, prostitution, crime, stagnation, and one of the worst public school systems in the nation..... you know.... issues any city council should be focused on. This is a distraction from the reality in NO any walnut knows that.

[Ransom]

Watching the bed wetting left wing crowd is entertaining.
But, watching the endless cycle of poverty, dependence, cultural decay, and an education system that is an utter failure isn't entertaining.

Bring in the bulldozers on the 25th too, Merry Christmas city of New Orleans!! We all know this is all many of you will get many.... way too many will go to bed hungry, will get zero for Christmas and the message for decades for these children del sums up nicely.

They lose.....$#@! em.

[Tahuyaman]

what the......