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View Full Version : Iran: the politics of war .... and fear ... and how to become prezzy of the US



Awryly
09-05-2012, 04:34 AM
This whole thing over Iran's nuclear stuff is just a huge PR hoax. Give or take the Israelis, who are wetting themselves over something that will never happen.

OK, so the Persians have said they will wipe Israel off the map. Personally, I don't think that's a bad idea; but no-one takes them seriously. It's a handy posture that upsets the Americans, but that's about all. Israel has none of their land. They have Arab land. It's the Arabs who should be upset.

Iran is not building nuclear weapons. It is enriching uranium (a) to supply power and (b) to, probably quite deliberately, scare the Israelis.

Obama approaches the whole silly theatre with no great enthusiasm for the idiot fascist Israeli prime minister. He clearly doesn't like him. Romney stokes the fires of a ME war because he thinks, probably wrongly, that Americans are just dying to get into a war they think they can actually win - no matter that it would be fought with nuclear and, on Iran's side, chemical and biological weapons which could reach the USA.

Netanyahu has to hit the go button before November. But he will be the aggressor without a clear and unequivocal causus belli. That's what Romney wants. But I wonder if Americans will take the bait?

shaarona
09-05-2012, 04:49 AM
This whole thing over Iran's nuclear stuff is just a huge PR hoax. Give or take the Israelis, who are wetting themselves over something that will never happen.

OK, so the Persians have said they will wipe Israel off the map. Personally, I don't think that's a bad idea; but no-one takes them seriously. It's a handy posture that upsets the Americans, but that's about all.

Iran is not building nuclear weapons. It is enriching uranium (a) to supply power and (b) to, probably quite deliberately, scare the Israelis.

Obama approaches the whole silly theatre with no great enthusiasm for the idiot fascist Israeli prime minister. He clearly doesn't like him. Romney stokes the fires of a ME war because he thinks, probably wrongly, that Americans are just dying to get into a war they think they can actually win - no matter that it would be fought with nuclear and, on Iran's side, chemical and biological weapons which could reach the USA.

Netanyahu has to hit the go button before November. But he will be the aggressor without a clear and unequivocal causus belli. That's what Romney wants. But I wonder if Americans do?

What a great post. I think you have hit every point accurately.

What do Americans want? I think we are very divided. I don't want a war and I don't believe Iran is a threat. My brothers, who are not religious believe that the Republican Guard are crazy and that Iran is dangerous. Some seem to want Israel to take care of their own problem without dragging the US into it.. Others rant that the we must help Israel.

To me Romney and Obama are identical on every issue.. even using the same language... except where Israel and Iran are concerned.

Romney said he was going to endorse a Palestinian state at the convention.. I didn't watch so I don't know if he did. Romney talks like he would go to war to stop Iran.. I don't know if he is naive or insincere.. or both.

I think Obama is less concerned about Iran being a threat to Israel... (IMO they aren't) and far more concerned about Iran mucking about in Yemen, Lebanon, and the Arabian Peninsula and what the reaction might be. Nobody wants to see the rest of the Arab world obtaining nukes because of this stupid game between Bibi and Iran.

Chris
09-05-2012, 06:26 AM
Iran is not building nuclear weapons. It is enriching uranium (a) to supply power and (b) to, probably quite deliberately, scare the Israelis.

And the source of your intel is what?

Awryly
09-05-2012, 06:59 AM
I see the Dem National convention platform failed to state that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Apparently a draft said it was but it was removed.

That's as clear a hint to Netanyahu that he's on his own in his lunatic policies as I can think.

Mind you, the Dems also dropped God. Probably retribution for leaving them clean up Bush's mess.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 07:02 AM
I see the Dem National convention platform failed to state that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Apparently a draft said it was but it was removed.

That's as clear a hint to Netanyahu that he's on his own in his lunatic policies as I can think.

Mind you, the Dems also dropped God. Probably retribution for leaving them clean up Bush's mess.

I posted a really interesting oped from the NYT about Obama and Israel. I am convinced the guy is right-minded..

shaarona
09-05-2012, 07:04 AM
And the source of your intel is what?

Chris: Iran will NEVER bomb Israel.. The retaliation would be a holocaust.

Awryly
09-05-2012, 07:09 AM
And the source of your intel is what?

This is:


WASHINGTON — Even as the United Nations’ nuclear watchdog said in a new report Friday that Iran had accelerated its uranium enrichment (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/world/middleeast/atomic-agency-says-iran-is-making-fuel-at-protected-site.html?hp) program, American intelligence analysts continue tobelieve (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/world/middleeast/us-agencies-see-no-move-by-iran-to-build-a-bomb.html?_r=1#) that there is no hard evidence that Iran has decided to build a nuclear bomb.


Recent assessments by American spy agencies are broadly consistent with a2007 intelligence finding (http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/international/20071203_release.pdf) that concluded that Iran had abandoned itsnuclear weapons (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/science/topics/atomic_weapons/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) program years earlier, according to current and former American officials. The officials said that assessment was largely reaffirmed in a 2010 National Intelligence Estimate (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/i/us_intelligence_community/national_intelligence_estimates/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), and that it remains the consensus view of America’s 16 intelligence agencies.. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/world/middleeast/us-agencies-see-no-move-by-iran-to-build-a-bomb.html?_r=1

But you could be right. What would 16 American intelligence agencies know?

Chris
09-05-2012, 07:10 AM
Chris: Iran will NEVER bomb Israel.. The retaliation would be a holocaust.

So it wouldn't because doing so would start a war. What makes you think wars are rational?

Awryly
09-05-2012, 07:10 AM
Chris: Iran will NEVER bomb Israel.. The retaliation would be a holocaust.

And vice versa. Israel is a sitting duck for chemical warfare.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 07:13 AM
So it wouldn't because doing so would start a war. What makes you think wars are rational?

The Iranians are rational..and if Iran bombed Israel, there wouldn't be a war.. There just wouldn't be an Iran.

Chris
09-05-2012, 07:17 AM
This is:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/world/middleeast/us-agencies-see-no-move-by-iran-to-build-a-bomb.html?_r=1

But you could be right. What would 16 American intelligence agencies know?

Asked for a source you give me NYT interpretation? For example, the NYT claims "a 2007 intelligence finding that concluded that Iran had abandoned itsnuclear weapons program years earlier". If you go to the actual intelligence report, however, you find nothing of the sort. In fact what it says is
In our judgment,
only an Iranian political decision to abandon a nuclear weapons objective would
plausibly keep Iran from eventually producing nuclear weapons—and such a decision
is inherently reversible.

Oops!

Chris
09-05-2012, 07:19 AM
The Iranians are rational..and if Iran bombed Israel, there wouldn't be a war.. There just wouldn't be an Iran.

Right, as rational as anyone, which is not very.

Awryly
09-05-2012, 07:19 AM
The Iranians are rational..and if Iran bombed Israel, there wouldn't be a war.. There just wouldn't be an Iran.


The Iranians have no more intention of bombing Israel than they have of building a nuclear weapon.

But, if Israel bombed them, all bets are off. And if Syria has chemical and biological weapons, you can be sure Ian does too. At least the Israelis think so. They're all running around with gas masks.

And don't forget that Israel is geographically tiny and its population centred in large cities. Easy pickings.

I agree the Iranians are rational. But I'm not so sure the Israelis are.

Chris
09-05-2012, 07:28 AM
The Iranians have no more intention of bombing Israel than they have of building a nuclear weapon.

But, if Israel bombed them, all bets are off. And if Syria has chemical and biological weapons, you can be sure Ian does too. At least the Israelis think so. They're all running around with gas masks.

And don't forget that Israel is geographically tiny and its population centred in large cities. Easy pickings.

I agree the Iranians are rational. But I'm not so sure the Israelis are.

You and shaarona are committing the psychologist's fallacy, biased at that.

Mainecoons
09-05-2012, 07:28 AM
The Iranians have no more intention of bombing Israel than they have of building a nuclear weapon.

I didn't realize you were an intelligence expert and operative, or where would you get the knowledge to make such blanket statements?

Could you explain why a country awash in oil and natural gas needs to spend billions on pricey nuclear power when they can generate it from their own hydrocarbons for peanuts?

I think you are 12,000 merciful miles away from reality. :grin:

Awryly
09-05-2012, 07:29 AM
Asked for a source you give me NYT interpretation? For example, the NYT claims "a 2007 intelligence finding that concluded that Iran had abandoned itsnuclear weapons program years earlier". If you go to the actual intelligence report, however, you find nothing of the sort. In fact what it says is

Oops!

You chase that around the semantic bushes on your own, mate.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 07:31 AM
The Iranians have no more intention of bombing Israel than they have of building a nuclear weapon.

But, if Israel bombed them, all bets are off. And if Syria has chemical and biological weapons, you can be sure Ian does too. At least the Israelis think so. They're all running around with gas masks.

And don't forget that Israel is geographically tiny and its population centred in large cities. Easy pickings.

I agree the Iranians are rational. But I'm not so sure the Israelis are.

I know they all have gas:danceshout::danceshout: masks.. (Imagine that!)

I think there are rational Israelis.. but Bibi is not one of them. What's the deal? Is he president for life?

shaarona
09-05-2012, 07:36 AM
I didn't realize you were an intelligence expert and operative, or where would you get the knowledge to make such blanket statements?

Could you explain why a country awash in oil and natural gas needs to spend billions on pricey nuclear power when they can generate it from their own hydrocarbons for peanuts?

I think you are 12,000 merciful miles away from reality. :grin:

Everyone has known the answer to that question since the 1970s. Iran has a population of about 75 million and they have HUGE domestic consumption.. very little refinery capacity.

They need nuclear power to expand their electrical grid .. and now with newer technology nuclear power plants can also produce desalinated water.. which Iran also needs.

If they have nuclear power they can export MORE oil and gas.

Awryly
09-05-2012, 07:43 AM
Everyone has known the answer to that question since the 1970s. Iran has a population of about 75 million and they have HUGE domestic consumption.. very little refinery capacity.

They need nuclear power to expand their electrical grid .. and now with newer technology nuclear power plants can also produce desalinated water.. which Iran also needs.

If they have nuclear power they can export MORE oil and gas.


Exactly. Making the world dependent on their oil is much smarter than using it themselves, even if they could. Which, as you say, they can't.

And they desperately need power.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 07:59 AM
Exactly. Making the world dependent on their oil is much smarter than using it themselves, even if they could. Which, as you say, they can't.

And they desperately need power.

The nuclear program of Iran was launched in the 1950s with the help of the United States.. I think it was called the Atoms for Peace program.


I never understand anything unless I can see it.

http://www.travelblog.org/Maps/map-of-iran-ir.gif

Iran is perfectly positioned to be a conduit for Caspian oil and Gas from the Stans... They have access to the Persian Gulf and can send gas by pipeline to India, Pakistan and China .. Then they also have copious amounts of their own oil and gas.

Chris
09-05-2012, 07:59 AM
You chase that around the semantic bushes on your own, mate.

Didn't check your sources, did you.

Chris
09-05-2012, 08:03 AM
I know they all have gas:danceshout::danceshout: masks.. (Imagine that!)

I think there are rational Israelis.. but Bibi is not one of them. What's the deal? Is he president for life?

Gotta love it, the Iranians are rational but the Israelis only maybe.

The entire argument from rationality is absurd. Assume man is rational. War is irrational. Therefore man has never started a war. Lol.

Awryly
09-05-2012, 08:03 AM
The nuclear program of Iran was launched in the 1950s with the help of the United States.. I think it was called the Atoms for Peace program.


I never understand anything unless I can see it.

http://www.travelblog.org/Maps/map-of-iran-ir.gif

Iran is perfectly positioned to be a conduit for Caspian oil and Gas from the Stans... They have access to the Persian Gulf and can send gas by pipeline to India, Pakistan and China .. Then they also have copious amounts of their own oil and gas.


What happened to that Afghan pipeline thingy that has kept the US fighting its losing war there? Since al Qaeda left years ago, I assume they still want to build it.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 08:10 AM
What happened to that Afghan pipeline thingy that has kept the US fighting its losing war there? Since al Qaeda left years ago, I assume they still want to build it.

Oh you'll love this... the Chinese are building it.

You know that China and Afghanistan share a border.. as well as some mixed ethnicity and cultural influences in the northern part of Afghanistan.. Their prspective is that they will still be neighbors when the US goes home.

So, the Chinese are building railroad, the have developed some mining operations and they have a pipeline concession.. I am pretty sure that they will be buying Iranian gas from Iran's South Pars field.

The Chinese think that jobs are they way to dilute the influence of the Taliban..

shaarona
09-05-2012, 08:13 AM
Gotta love it, the Iranians are rational but the Israelis only maybe.

The entire argument from rationality is absurd. Assume man is rational. War is irrational. Therefore man has never started a war. Lol.

I posted a map for you.. a picture is worth a thousand words.

The Iranians are perfectly positioned to be fabulously wealthy ... they already have fine Medical Schools and Universities.

The problem is they have a bunch of idiots running the government.. but those idiots are aware of Iran's future.

Awryly
09-05-2012, 08:16 AM
Oh you'll love this... the Chinese are building it.

You know that China and Afghanistan share a border.. as well as some mixed ethnicity and cultural influences in the northern part of Afghanistan.. Their prspective is that they will still be neighbors when the US goes home.

So, the Chinese are building railroad, the have developed some mining operations and they have a pipeline concession.. I am pretty sure that they will be buying Iranian gas from Iran's South Pars field.

The Chinese think that jobs are they way to dilute the influence of the Taliban..


That's so funny.

But it demonstrates yet again the differences between the American and Chinese approach to international relationships and co-operation.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 08:18 AM
That's so funny.

But it demonstrates yet again the differences between the American and Chinese approach to international relationships and co-operation.

The Chinese adopted the American approach while the US moved towards the bully British approach.

Awryly
09-05-2012, 08:26 AM
The Chinese adopted the American approach while the US moved towards the bully British approach.

Actually, in NZ the Brits were very conciliatory in their dealings with the locals. They signed a partnership treaty with them which governs the relationship with the indigenous population to this day. Of course, that was later in the colonial period (1840).

Unlike in Australia where they just shot them. Often for sport.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 08:29 AM
Actually, in NZ the Brits were very conciliatory in their dealings with the locals. They signed a partnership treaty with them which governs the relationship with the indigenous population to this day. Of course, that was later in the colonial period.

Unlike in Australia where they just shot them. Often for sport.

In their dealings in Iran and Iraq, the British simply stole their oil..

Can you imagine getting screwed out of your natural resources for 6 cents on the dollar?

GrumpyDog
09-05-2012, 09:09 AM
In their dealings in Iran and Iraq, the British simply stole their oil..

Can you imagine getting screwed out of your natural resources for 6 cents on the dollar?

Yes the other 90% of we Americans can. We have been screwed by the shisters since Gold Rush of 1849. Before that, the Natives were screwed even worse. Last and most famous shist began with Reagan and culminated in Bush steal election in Florida 2000. Economy ground into oblivion by Bush, barely kept from total oblivion by Obama.


Yes we are well aware of having resources stripped, horded, and extorted from ordinary working people..by Vulture Capitalists like Romneys Bane, an ancient demon, a Balrog, from the depths of Moria.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 09:13 AM
Yes the other 90% of we Americans can. We have been screwed by the shisters since Gold Rush of 1849. Before that, the Natives were screwed even worse. Last and most famous shist began with Reagan and culminated in Bush steal election in Florida 2000. Economy ground into oblivion by Bush, barely kept from total oblivion by Obama.


Yes we are well aware of having resources stripped, horded, and extorted from ordinary working people..by Vulture Capitalists like Romneys Bane, an ancient demon, a Balrog, from the depths of Moria.

Actually, I was referring to the ARAMCO model.

Chris
09-05-2012, 12:01 PM
Gotta love it, the Iranians are rational but the Israelis only maybe.

The entire argument from rationality is absurd. Assume man is rational. War is irrational. Therefore man has never started a war. Lol.


I posted a map for you.. a picture is worth a thousand words.

The Iranians are perfectly positioned to be fabulously wealthy ... they already have fine Medical Schools and Universities.

The problem is they have a bunch of idiots running the government.. but those idiots are aware of Iran's future.

And the map has what to do with your plain sight bias for Iranians (rational) and against Israelis (might be rational)? The maps tells me nothing about a man's rationality.


The problem is they have a bunch of idiots running the government.

Indeed, religious leaders who are driving Iran into the ground economically and so scapegoat Israel to wag the dog away from their internal problems.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 12:31 PM
And the map has what to do with your plain sight bias for Iranians (rational) and against Israelis (might be rational)? The maps tells me nothing about a man's rationality.



Indeed, religious leaders who are driving Iran into the ground economically and so scapegoat Israel to wag the dog away from their internal problems.

If you study the map, you will certainly see how important Iran is to Russia, China, India, Pakistan and Port Gwadar in Blochistan.

Iron River
09-05-2012, 12:35 PM
Thiswhole thing over Iran's nuclear stuff is just a huge PR hoax. Give or take theIsraelis, who are wetting themselves over something that will never happen. What makes you think that Iran is willing tospend their national wealth to build a bomb if there is no hope that they cando it if left alone?


OK, sothe Persians have said they will wipe Israel off the map. Personally, I don'tthink that's a bad idea; but no-one takes them seriously. It's a handy posturethat upsets the Americans, but that's about all. Israel has none of their land.They have Arab land. It's the Arabs who should be upset. Do not know how land has changed hands forall of history? Israel bought the landwhere Israel is now and when the Arabs attacked them they gained the West Bankand should have been allowed to keep it. Jordon seeded ownership of the West Bank to the Pakistanis so thatIsrael would forever have to deal with them because Jordon didn't want thetrash of the Arab world.


Iran is not building nuclear weapons. It is enriching uranium (a) tosupply power and (b) to, probably quite deliberately, scare the Israelis. Surelyyou can't be that - - - confused.


Obama approaches the whole silly theatre with no great enthusiasm forthe idiot fascist Israeli prime minister. He clearly doesn't like him. Romneystokes the fires of a ME war because he thinks, probably wrongly, thatAmericans are just dying to get into a war they think they can actually win -no matter that it would be fought with nuclear and, on Iran's side, chemicaland biological weapons which could reach the USA.

Netanyahu has to hit the go button before November. But he will be theaggressor without a clear and unequivocal causus belli. That's what Romneywants. But I wonder if Americans will take the bait?No, and I doubtthat you know what Americans want. We don't want to fry Iran, we have alwaysliked the Iranian people and they like us. If Iran attacks Israel with nukes we will cook Iran if we have to arrestBH Obama first. The greater threat isthat Iran will attack the US with a nuke and if that happens our military willnot only attack Iran, we will nuke anyone that doesn't like it and that includesyour little dog.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 12:42 PM
What makes you think that Iran is willing tospend their national wealth to build a bomb if there is no hope that they cando it if left alone?

Do not know how land has changed hands forall of history? Israel bought the landwhere Israel is now and when the Arabs attacked them they gained the West Bankand should have been allowed to keep it. Jordon seeded ownership of the West Bank to the Pakistanis so thatIsrael would forever have to deal with them because Jordon didn't want thetrash of the Arab world.

Surelyyou can't be that - - - confused.

No, and I doubtthat you know what Americans want. We don't want to fry Iran, we have alwaysliked the Iranian people and they like us. If Iran attacks Israel with nukes we will cook Iran if we have to arrestBH Obama first. The greater threat isthat Iran will attack the US with a nuke and if that happens our military willnot only attack Iran, we will nuke anyone that doesn't like it and that includesyour little dog.


Pakistan is not involved in Palestine.

prometheus
09-05-2012, 12:47 PM
If you study the map, you will certainly see how important Iran is to Russia, China, India, Pakistan and Port Gwadar in Blochistan.


That's right. That's why America, extorted by Israel, must keep sacraficing lives...

Russia and China can't get to America, but they CAN get to Israel....

That is, if Israel stopped selling American secrets....

countryboy
09-05-2012, 12:50 PM
This whole thing over Iran's nuclear stuff is just a huge PR hoax. Give or take the Israelis, who are wetting themselves over something that will never happen.

OK, so the Persians have said they will wipe Israel off the map. Personally, I don't think that's a bad idea.....

Does anyone really need to read any further?

What a vile POS this poster is.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 12:51 PM
That's right. That's why America, extorted by Israel, must keep sacraficing lives...

Russia and China can't get to America, but they CAN get to Israel....

That is, if Israel stopped selling American secrets....

Oh I am so glad somebody looked at the map I posted.
Israel is important, but hardly strategic.

Ideally we could mend our fences in Iran... but that's a pipedrem.

Chris
09-05-2012, 12:53 PM
Gotta love it, the Iranians are rational but the Israelis only maybe.

The entire argument from rationality is absurd. Assume man is rational. War is irrational. Therefore man has never started a war. Lol.


If you study the map, you will certainly see how important Iran is to Russia, China, India, Pakistan and Port Gwadar in Blochistan.

And once more what does that have to do with your obvious bias for Iranians and against Israelis?

shaarona
09-05-2012, 12:53 PM
Does anyone really need to read any further?

What a vile POS this poster is.

You don't really believe that Israel or Iran are serious, do you?

This is theater.. Israel has been threatening Iran for over a decade .. and Iran blusters and say, Zionism will evaporate.

Iron River
09-05-2012, 12:55 PM
Pakistanis not involved in Palestine.

Right you are Imeant Palestinians.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 12:55 PM
And once more what does that have to do with your obvious bias for Iranians and against Israelis?

Reality is not bias..

Bibi Netanyahu KNOWS that Iran will NEVER bomb Israel... Do you ever read the Israeli papers? Senior Israeli military and intel say that Bibi is not only wrong, but he's nuts. Iran is not a threat.

countryboy
09-05-2012, 12:56 PM
You don't really believe that Israel or Iran are serious, do you?

This is theater.. Israel has been threatening Iran for over a decade .. and Iran blusters and say, Zionism will evaporate.

So you agree with the OP that Israel should be wiped off the map?

shaarona
09-05-2012, 01:00 PM
So you agree with the OP that Israel should be wiped off the map?

Of course not.. I think they should do something courageous.. and either have a two state solution or a one state solution.. but the Likkud seems to be stuck on stupid.

Chris
09-05-2012, 01:01 PM
Reality is not bias..

Bibi Netanyahu KNOWS that Iran will NEVER bomb Israel... Do you ever read the Israeli papers? Senior Israeli military and intel say that Bibi is not only wrong, but he's nuts. Iran is not a threat.

Nor does your bias about the rationality of Iranians vs the irrationality of Israelis have anything to do with reality. I imagine that's why you're ducking defending it.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 01:19 PM
Nor does your bias about the rationality of Iranians vs the irrationality of Israelis have anything to do with reality. I imagine that's why you're ducking defending it.

Perpetual war with the neighbors is a poor solution.. and a huge waste of money... The war talk is an effort to be relevant when they no longer are..

What strategic value has Israel EVER been to the US or the West in general?

Get real now.

Chris
09-05-2012, 02:09 PM
Perpetual war with the neighbors is a poor solution.. and a huge waste of money... The war talk is an effort to be relevant when they no longer are..

What strategic value has Israel EVER been to the US or the West in general?

Get real now.


You keep evading your obvious bias that Iranians are rational and Israelis irrational. I don't blame you, it's indefensible.

Agravan
09-05-2012, 02:14 PM
Perpetual war with the neighbors is a poor solution.. and a huge waste of money... The war talk is an effort to be relevant when they no longer are..

What strategic value has Israel EVER been to the US or the West in general?

Get real now.

If the Palestinian terrorists laid down their arms there would be peace with Israel. If Israel laid down her arms there would be no Israel.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 02:15 PM
You keep evading your obvious bias that Iranians are rational and Israelis irrational. I don't blame you, it's indefensible.

Listen to Bibi.. He's fought every peace effort, continues to confiscate land, and threatens Iran and Lebanon.

Do you think that is constructive on any level?

shaarona
09-05-2012, 02:16 PM
If the Palestinian terrorists laid down their arms there would be peace with Israel. If Israel laid down her arms there would be no Israel.

Most Palestinians are shopkeepers and farmers.

Chris
09-05-2012, 02:46 PM
Listen to Bibi.. He's fought every peace effort, continues to confiscate land, and threatens Iran and Lebanon.

Do you think that is constructive on any level?

Have your one-way discussion with yourself.

prometheus
09-05-2012, 02:51 PM
Have your one-way discussion with yourself.


I'm listening, because sharona is correct.

Israel firsters, are never right.

prometheus
09-05-2012, 02:55 PM
If the Palestinian terrorists laid down their arms there would be peace with Israel. If Israel laid down her arms there would be no Israel.

That whole thing where you can pretend Israelis themselves aren't terrorists, only works in dumbed down America.

The rest of the world is aware of israeli atrocities....

shaarona
09-05-2012, 02:56 PM
Have your one-way discussion with yourself.

Chris I have wanted some peaceful resolution in Palestine since the early 1950s.

Chris
09-05-2012, 05:15 PM
I'm listening, because sharona is correct.

Israel firsters, are never right.

Were you listening you would not assume I'm an Israel firster.

So perhaps you can explain sharona's bias about the rationality of Iranians as opposed Israelis, as he sure can't.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 05:23 PM
Were you listening you would not assume I'm an Israel firster.

So perhaps you can explain sharona's bias about the rationality of Iranians as opposed Israelis, as he sure can't.

The Iranians have a legitimate reason to build nuclear power and desalination plants... It dates back to 1951 and the Atoms for Peace Program.

The Israelis have no legit reason to prevent Iran from developing needed infrastructure.

Little Jordan desperately needs nuclear power and desal.. The Russians are ready to build it.. Israel raised cain about that as well.

Chris
09-05-2012, 05:27 PM
The Iranians have a legitimate reason to build nuclear power and desalination plants... It dates back to 1951 and the Atoms for Peace Program.

The Israelis have no legit reason to prevent Iran from developing needed infrastructure.

Little Jordan desperately needs nuclear power and desal.. The Russians are ready to build it.. Israel raised cain about that as well.

State legailities don't explain your bias about the rationality of Iranians or irrationality of Israelis.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 05:30 PM
State legailities don't explain your bias about the rationality of Iranians or irrationality of Israelis.

It is rational for the Iranians to develop their infrastructure and protect it from Israeli knee jerk paranoia.

All the neighbors will be developing nuclear power and desalination.. and Israel has NO right to interfere or dictate what other sovereign states do.

Chris
09-05-2012, 05:36 PM
It is rational for the Iranians to develop their infrastructure and protect it from Israeli knee jerk paranoia.

All the neighbors will be developing nuclear power and desalination.. and Israel has NO right to interfere or dictate what other sovereign states do.

Is it rational to speak of all Iranians as rational and Israelis as irrational? No, that's bias, and has no basis in reality. Earlier you spoke of Palistinians as mostly farmers and shopkeepers, so are most Iranians, and so are most Israelis, and most as as rational as you and I or anyone else.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 05:41 PM
Is it rational to speak of all Iranians as rational and Israelis as irrational? No, that's bias, and has no basis in reality. Earlier you spoke of Palistinians as mostly farmers and shopkeepers, so are most Iranians, and so are most Israelis, and most as as rational as you and I or anyone else.

I did not say all Israelis were irrational, but Bibi and the Likkud certainly are.

The neighbors have the right to develop their countries, use their natural resources and hopefully come into a prosperous modernity.

Israel sees that as a threat... as if they cannot succeed unless the neighbors are crippled and poverty stricken.. Which IMO is worse than asinine. Read Bibi's 1998 plan for Israel's future "to dominate" the region.. Its called Clean Break Strategy.

Captain Obvious
09-05-2012, 05:47 PM
The Iranians have a legitimate reason to build nuclear power and desalination plants... It dates back to 1951 and the Atoms for Peace Program.

The Israelis have no legit reason to prevent Iran from developing needed infrastructure.

Little Jordan desperately needs nuclear power and desal.. The Russians are ready to build it.. Israel raised cain about that as well.

That is simply not correct.

Israel developed nuclear weapons because they were surrounded by the threat of attack - they still are and are still a nation partly because of their possession of "weapons for peace".

Iran has a long checkered history of being nothing but a rogue state. They are holocaust deniers with a vision that Israel be "wiped off the map".

Mainecoons
09-05-2012, 05:49 PM
Unfortunately, Israel is an advanced civilization dropped in the middle of the Dark Ages, better known as the Middle East. I favor allowing the entire country to emigrate to the U.S. and in return we toss out all the Muslims.

Chris
09-05-2012, 05:56 PM
I did not say all Israelis were irrational, but Bibi and the Likkud certainly are.

The neighbors have the right to develop their countries, use their natural resources and hopefully come into a prosperous modernity.

Israel sees that as a threat... as if they cannot succeed unless the neighbors are crippled and poverty stricken.. Which IMO is worse than asinine. Read Bibi's 1998 plan for Israel's future "to dominate" the region.. Its called Clean Break Strategy.


I did not say all Israelis were irrational
You implied it when you said Iranians are rational and maybe some Israelis are.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 05:57 PM
That is simply not correct.

Israel developed nuclear weapons because they were surrounded by the threat of attack - they still are and are still a nation partly because of their possession of "weapons for peace".

Iran has a long checkered history of being nothing but a rogue state. They are holocaust deniers with a vision that Israel be "wiped off the map".

So when you see 3 million Palestinian refugees pushed off their land, denied water, having their 300 year old olive trees bulldozed.. you perceive Israel as the victim.

As for Ama nutjob.. and your "holocaust denial" accusation.

He posed the question, If there was a holocaust in Europe, why are th Palestinians paying for it with their land and their blood"?

That question has been asked many, many times since Roosevelt and Ibn Saud met at Bitter Lake.

Captain Obvious
09-05-2012, 06:24 PM
So when you see 3 million Palestinian refugees pushed off their land, denied water, having their 300 year old olive trees bulldozed.. you perceive Israel as the victim.

As for Ama nutjob.. and your "holocaust denial" accusation.

He posed the question, If there was a holocaust in Europe, why are th Palestinians paying for it with their land and their blood"?

That question has been asked many, many times since Roosevelt and Ibn Saud met at Bitter Lake.

So then you're suggesting that the only possible solution is the elimination of an Israli state?

I'm not going to get into the whole Jew vs. Arab thing, I'm just not. That goes back thousands of years, I'm looking at the current situation. Israel is a recognized (by most) state, they want peace. Iran desires the destruction of Israel.

So where do you go from there?

shaarona
09-05-2012, 06:41 PM
So then you're suggesting that the only possible solution is the elimination of an Israli state?

I'm not going to get into the whole Jew vs. Arab thing, I'm just not. That goes back thousands of years, I'm looking at the current situation. Israel is a recognized (by most) state, they want peace. Iran desires the destruction of Israel.

So where do you go from there?

Absolutely NOT.. but Irael should either withdraw from the occupied territories and allow a two state solution or include the Palestinians as full citizens in a one state solution.

Iran is NOT going to bomb Israel EVER.

This is Bibi's excuse to maintain the status quo..

Captain Obvious
09-05-2012, 06:48 PM
Absolutely NOT.. but Irael should either withdraw from the occupied territories and allow a two state solution or include the Palestinians as full citizens in a one state solution.

Iran is NOT going to bomb Israel EVER.

This is Bibi's excuse to maintain the status quo..

So I go back to my original question - and the two-state solution, peace process is all irrelevant, how do you work with a rogue regime in Iran who's prime objective is the utter destruction of the Israeli state?

Hence, how do you support a rogue regime's attempts to acquire nuclear capabilities with this objective in mind.

The solution is simple and currently in play, you don't.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 06:55 PM
So I go back to my original question - and the two-state solution, peace process is all irrelevant, how do you work with a rogue regime in Iran who's prime objective is the utter destruction of the Israeli state?

Hence, how do you support a rogue regime's attempts to acquire nuclear capabilities with this objective in mind.

The solution is simple and currently in play, you don't.

Iran will NEVER bomb Israel.. NEVER.. The Iranians won't kill Palestinians or destroy the holy sites of the Patriarchs.

Most Israelis know it..

This is theater, a con job by Bibi.. Israel is NOT afraid of an attack from Iran.

If they want Iran to stop supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.. two things.. Treat Gaza humanely and leave Lebanon alone.

Captain Obvious
09-05-2012, 06:57 PM
Iran will NEVER bomb Israel.. NEVER.. The Iranians won't kill Palestinians or destroy the holy sites of the Patriarchs.

Most Israelis know it..

This is theater, a con job by Bibi.. Israel is NOT afraid of an attack from Iran.

If they want Iran to stop supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.. two things.. Treat Gaza humanely and leave Lebanon alone.

I don't believe that.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 07:04 PM
I don't believe that.

Believe it.. Remember. Israel has a history of "premptive attacks".. God so many against Lebanon when I was growing up.. and 1967.

Israel works itself into a fever.. Syria and Iraq would never have nuked Israel either.

You cannot apply Israeli logic to the Arabs. They would NEVER destroy the holy city.

There is a way to take the pressure off.. The US could guarantee the security of both Iran and Lebanon in exchange for gurantees that Iran won't build a bomb.

Because.. if Iran is forced to get a bomb to defend their nuclear infrastructure.. Saudi Arabia and Egypt and Turkey will also get the bomb.

Captain Obvious
09-05-2012, 07:09 PM
Believe it.. Remember. Israel has a history of "premptive attacks".. God so many against Lebanon when I was growing up.. and 1967.

Israel works itself into a fever.. Syria and Iraq would never have nuked Israel either.

You cannot apply Israeli logic to the Arabs. They would NEVER destroy the holy city.

There is a way to take the pressure off.. The US could guarantee the security of both Iran and Lebanon in exchange for gurantees that Iran won't build a bomb.

Because.. if Iran is forced to get a bomb to defend their nuclear infrastructure.. Saudi Arabia and Egypt and Turkey will also get the bomb.

How many SCUDs did Hussein launch into Israel during Desert Storm?

shaarona
09-05-2012, 07:12 PM
How many SCUDs did Hussein launch into Israel during Desert Storm?

I didn't count them, but I do know that one Israeli died of a heart attack.

Saddam half heartedly launched some scuds at Al Hasa as well.

I don't have any problem concerning Israel.. just Bibi and the Likkud.. The Israeli should throw him into the sea and sit down to solve this 60 year old nightmare.

prometheus
09-05-2012, 07:14 PM
How many SCUDs did Hussein launch into Israel during Desert Storm?

Israel assassinated Gerald Bull, Iraqs chief weapons expert.

They then become a legitimate target for retaliation.

Captain Obvious
09-05-2012, 07:21 PM
I didn't count them, but I do know that one Israeli died of a heart attack.

Saddam half heartedly launched some scuds at Al Hasa as well.

I don't have any problem concerning Israel.. just Bibi and the Likkud.. The Israeli should throw him into the sea and sit down to solve this 60 year old nightmare.

My point was to consider your suggestion that Arabs would not destroy the holy lands. Granted Hussein was cornered and his scheme was to drag Israel (and other Arab states) into the conflict, but either way - I have a hard time reconciling the suggestion that Iran wouldn't at the drop of a hat launch a nuke at Israel if they could.

You have to remember, these rogue Arab countries use Islam as a tool, not as a cherished belief. Radical Islam terrorists bastardize the Koran to "validate" their actions - their prime motive is hatred, hatred for Western culture, hatred for a Jewish state.

The fundamental of Islam are meaningless, unless it supports their agenda.

Awryly
09-05-2012, 07:36 PM
Absolutely NOT.. but Irael should either withdraw from the occupied territories and allow a two state solution or include the Palestinians as full citizens in a one state solution.

Iran is NOT going to bomb Israel EVER.

This is Bibi's excuse to maintain the status quo..

Correct. Iran's "nuclear bomb" is just Likkud cover for expansionist Israeli policies. It diverts attention and gives Netanyahu cred in America. While he thieves in the night he has created.

Israelis deserve all the fear that descends on them.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 07:42 PM
My point was to consider your suggestion that Arabs would not destroy the holy lands. Granted Hussein was cornered and his scheme was to drag Israel (and other Arab states) into the conflict, but either way - I have a hard time reconciling the suggestion that Iran wouldn't at the drop of a hat launch a nuke at Israel if they could.

You have to remember, these rogue Arab countries use Islam as a tool, not as a cherished belief. Radical Islam terrorists bastardize the Koran to "validate" their actions - their prime motive is hatred, hatred for Western culture, hatred for a Jewish state.

The fundamental of Islam are meaningless, unless it supports their agenda.

Iranians are Persians... Iran has needed nuclear power since the 1970s.. and they can' afford to let Israel bomb that infrstructure..

What do you mean "fundamentals are meaningless"?

Captain Obvious
09-05-2012, 07:54 PM
Iranians are Persians... Iran has needed nuclear power since the 1970s.. and they can' afford to let Israel bomb that infrstructure..

What do you mean "fundamentals are meaningless"?

Fundamentals of Islam, a convenient tool for radical Islam.

North Korea needs energy also, they are one of the poorest countries in the region who spends the greatest portion of their GDP on military.

You cannot be a paranoid, rogue, threatening state and expect understanding from those whom you threaten. If Iran (and North Korea) were interested in peace and prosperity, they would act like they are interested in it.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 08:00 PM
Fundamentals of Islam, a convenient tool for radical Islam.

North Korea needs energy also, they are one of the poorest countries in the region who spends the greatest portion of their GDP on military.

You cannot be a paranoid, rogue, threatening state and expect understanding from those whom you threaten. If Iran (and North Korea) were interested in peace and prosperity, they would act like they are interested in it.

The term fundamental is not applicable to Islam as it is in Christianity.. The fundamentals are common to ALL muslims: prayer, charity.. the five pillars.

The Arab world really doesn't care about Israel.. They care about the humane treatment of the Plestinians... and justice.

Otherwise they just don't think about Israel.

Lebanon has to care about Israel.. The Israelis have diverted rivers, stolen top soil.. set thousands of mines and turned the Lebanese demographic completely upside down in one fell swoop.

Deadwood
09-05-2012, 08:02 PM
Personally, I don't think that's a bad idea;

Racist and sick.

Do you really advocate the slaughter of millions of people?

countryboy
09-05-2012, 08:05 PM
Racist and sick.

Do you really advocate the slaughter of millions of people?

Ah, I see you haven't met before.

countryboy
09-05-2012, 08:06 PM
The term fundamental is not applicable to Islam as it is in Christianity.. The fundamentals are common to ALL muslims: prayer, charity.. the five pillars.

The Arab world really doesn't care about Israel.. They care about the humane treatment of the Plestinians... and justice.

Otherwise they just don't think about Israel.

Lebanon has to care about Israel.. The Israelis have diverted rivers, stolen top soil.. set thousands of mines and turned the Lebanese demographic completely upside down in one fell swoop.

Do you actually believe this shit? Please tell me this is some form of satire.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 08:08 PM
Well nobody is bothering North Korea, are they?

shaarona
09-05-2012, 08:11 PM
Do you actually believe this shit? Please tell me this is some form of satire.

Trust me.. They don't care about Israel. Nobody is gunning for Israel.. They don't want to push them into the sea.. They want them to get out of the Golan, West Bank and Shaaba Farms.. That's it.

countryboy
09-05-2012, 08:19 PM
Trust me.. They don't care about Israel. Nobody is gunning for Israel.. They don't want to push them into the sea.. They want them to get out of the Golan, West Bank and Shaaba Farms.. That's it.

Trust you? Why?

Thanks, but I think I'll trust my own eyes and ears.;)

Captain Obvious
09-05-2012, 08:24 PM
Well nobody is bothering North Korea, are they?

Aside from isolation through sanctions?

shaarona
09-05-2012, 08:25 PM
Trust you? Why?

Thanks, but I think I'll trust my own eyes and ears.;)

When I was a Brownie Scout my troop collected clothing for Palestinian refugee children and that was 60 years ago.

Tell me what you have seen with your own eyes?

shaarona
09-05-2012, 08:26 PM
Aside from isolation through sanctions?

Nobody is bombing NK.. Israel has been threatening to bomb Iran since 2002.

Captain Obvious
09-05-2012, 08:32 PM
Not correct.

South Korea has been involved in military skirmishes with NK for decades in retaliation to NK's threatening posturing toward them.

Israel is threatening Iran in retaliation to Iran's "you must be destroyed" threat toward Israel.

How it is that you cannot connect these dots is a mystery to me. Nobody is threatening these rogue countries at the initiative, it's all defensive retaliation.

Awryly
09-05-2012, 08:34 PM
Iranians are Persians... Iran has needed nuclear power since the 1970s.. and they can' afford to let Israel bomb that infrstructure..

What do you mean "fundamentals are meaningless"?


Funnily enough, Israel can't bomb their facilities. They are too well dug in. But apparently the Americans have the tech to do it. So Israel's strategy would have to be to start a war, then going screaming to the Yanks for help.

Awryly
09-05-2012, 08:37 PM
Racist and sick.

Do you really advocate the slaughter of millions of people?


Where did I say that? I think I just said I think Israel should cease to exist. Theoretically, that could happen without killing anyone.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 08:46 PM
Not correct.

South Korea has been involved in military skirmishes with NK for decades in retaliation to NK's threatening posturing toward them.

Israel is threatening Iran in retaliation to Iran's "you must be destroyed" threat toward Israel.

How it is that you cannot connect these dots is a mystery to me. Nobody is threatening these rogue countries at the initiative, it's all defensive retaliation.

Israel began threatening Iran as soon as Iran started construction on the Bushehr power plant. Do you see the problem?

Do you remember years ago when Israel bought all it oil from Iran?

Do you remember that Israel didn't pay their bill and owed Iran $200 million plus interest for over 20 years?

Now why would Israel ASSUME that Iran wanted to nuke them??

Why do you suppose Iran helps Hezbollah in Lebanon?

shaarona
09-05-2012, 08:48 PM
Funnily enough, Israel can't bomb their facilities. They are too well dug in. But apparently the Americans have the tech to do it. So Israel's strategy would have to be to start a war, then going screaming to the Yanks for help.

But if Israel starts bombing those 25 targets they have talked about, it will be a holocaust. They could kill a million people because of their paranoia.

Captain Obvious
09-05-2012, 08:50 PM
Israel - Jews had been persecuted in the Middle East for ages, moreso in recent years. Once they declared statehood, they were immediately DOW'd upon.

Israel has threatened nobody aside from a defensive posture.

But you continue to dodge the here-and-now question. If Israel seeks peace which I believe they do want, how can they in the atmosphere of a rogue state who's firm stance is the destruction of Israel, who is currently acquiring nuclear technology?

Awryly
09-05-2012, 08:55 PM
But if Israel starts bombing those 25 targets they have talked about, it will be a holocaust. They could kill a million people because of their paranoia.

And the retaliation on Israel would also be massively prohibitive. It would have to take the gamble that chemically and biologically armed rockets would not get through their missile defences and take out their major cities.

shaarona
09-05-2012, 09:02 PM
Israel - Jews had been persecuted in the Middle East for ages, moreso in recent years. Once they declared statehood, they were immediately DOW'd upon.

Israel has threatened nobody aside from a defensive posture.

But you continue to dodge the here-and-now question. If Israel seeks peace which I believe they do want, how can they in the atmosphere of a rogue state who's firm stance is the destruction of Israel, who is currently acquiring nuclear technology?

Not really.. The Arab Jews were largely very successful in the Arab world. They paid fewer taxes and in general they prospered..

Look at the Jewish Merchant families of Bahrain.

They would still have thriving communities in Egypt, Libya, Iraq, Syria if not for European Zionism.

And I for one think it was loss to the Arab world... but they kept on leaving in successive waves.. in 48 and 56 and 67 and 73..

shaarona
09-05-2012, 09:03 PM
And the retaliation on Israel would also be massively prohibitive. It would have to take the gamble that chemically and biologically armed rockets would not get through their missile defences and take out their major cities.

I just find it tragic all the way around... and I doubt the carnage will end in my lifetime.

Agravan
09-05-2012, 10:02 PM
Leftists, socialists and muslim apologists hate Israel because that is all they have been taught. Notice that to these people, what they "know" about the Israelis is truth sent down by allah. Everyone who holds a different view is nothing but a warmongering idiot. That's because the liberal is always the smartest person in any argument (in their view).

Ivan88
09-06-2012, 04:49 PM
And the source of your intel is what?
Might as well ask what evidence the war crazies have that Iran is building nuclear weapons.

BTW, why shouldn't they have such weapons?

Chris
09-06-2012, 04:53 PM
Might as well ask what evidence the war crazies have that Iran is building nuclear weapons.

BTW, why shouldn't they have such weapons?

The source was provided, it was the NYT, an interpretation of the original intel assessment that said nothing of the sort.

shaarona
09-06-2012, 04:54 PM
Leftists, socialists and muslim apologists hate Israel because that is all they have been taught. Notice that to these people, what they "know" about the Israelis is truth sent down by allah. Everyone who holds a different view is nothing but a warmongering idiot. That's because the liberal is always the smartest person in any argument (in their view).

I take it that you are familiar with the history of Palestine and have looked the country over and seen the refugee camps?

What does the Israeli issue have to do with liberal or conservative?

Ivan88
09-06-2012, 04:56 PM
Israel is threatening Iran in retaliation to Iran's "you must be destroyed" threat toward Israel.

How it is that you cannot connect these dots is a mystery to me. Nobody is threatening these rogue countries at the initiative, it's all defensive retaliation.

It is all a dialectical game. Ahmadinejad is working his side of the coin and the Israelis are working their side.
The purpose of it all is to con the USA into attacking Iran. Then it will be arranged for the US to suffer some stunning defeats, and wa la, the USA is no longer interfering in the Middle East.

Guess who is scheduled to become the new super power?

GCF
09-06-2012, 05:58 PM
It is all a dialectical game. Ahmadinejad is working his side of the coin and the Israelis are working their side.
The purpose of it all is to con the USA into attacking Iran. Then it will be arranged for the US to suffer some stunning defeats, and wa la, the USA is no longer interfering in the Middle East.

Guess who is scheduled to become the new super power?

Who is gonna arrange stunning defeats of the US Military? Just don't see that happening.

shaarona
09-06-2012, 06:04 PM
Who is gonna arrange stunning defeats of the US Military? Just don't see that happening.

LOLOLOL.:smiley_ROFLMAO::smiley_ROFLMAO::smiley_RO FLMAO:

Now ask who the new superpower will be.

Akula
09-06-2012, 06:19 PM
What strategic value has Israel EVER been to the US or the West in general?



That is the cold truth.
To the jews we're "unclean"..to the muslims we're "infidels".
To hell with both of them.
Let them sort it out among themselves..and if they do it wouldn't just be iran vs. israel..it would be a mass attack from all sides.
israel would cease to exist.

GrumpyDog
09-07-2012, 01:30 AM
More worried about what the radical rightwing elements in USA are doing, than what the Iranians are doing.

Some of the wealthy rightwing radicals, will probably just flee the country, leaving their estates and land behind, which will be returned to the public as housing for poor and homeless, once the new economic system is designed.

Other rightwing radicals, however, will probably resort to violence rather than change, so NDAA 2012 was an ingenius forward looking legislative act, which provides for Predators and US military to be used to quell these brigands once they reveal themselves to be the terrorists everyone suspected they were.

Once they are terminated, jobs aplenty will be available for those who showed loyalty at the beginning of the economic restructuring, and who never lost faith in the hope and vision of a forward thinking visionary.

Mainecoons
09-07-2012, 07:18 AM
You should avoid posting in the middle of the night. :grin:

Iron River
09-07-2012, 12:56 PM
Moreworried about what the radical rightwing elements in USA are doing, than whatthe Iranians are doing.

Some of the wealthy rightwing radicals, will probably just flee the country,leaving their estates and land behind, which will be returned to the public ashousing for poor and homeless, once the new economic system is designed. So you and the liberal horde think that therich got their land from the public?? How did that work?


Other rightwing radicals, however, will probably resort to violencerather than change, so NDAA 2012 was an ingenius forward looking legislativeact, which provides for Predators and US military to be used to quell thesebrigands once they reveal themselves to be the terrorists everyone suspectedthey were.Do have anyone in mind? Could you point to any group that has shown violent tendencies? OWS, unions, Blacks, etc are all violent but Ithink you don't see them. What you se isan imagined threat from the people around you that you hate because they have achievedwhat you can't.


Once they are terminated, jobs aplenty will be available for those whoshowed loyalty at the beginning of the economic restructuring, and who neverlost faith in the hope and vision of a forward thinking visionary. For the people that you favor - those whohave not worked for months but will take the jobs being done now by the peoplethat YOU label terrorists - you would offer jobs that they can't evencomprehend, not to mention that they are too lazy to learn to do thosecomplicated jobs?? You think that layingon the couch and collecting unemployment is showing loyalty? When was thje beginning of this economicrestructuring? I have seen BH Obama attemptingto demolish our economy and no sane person thinks that he has a clue or even awill to put a new structure on the rubble that he has caused so far.

Before youstart thinking that you and the liberal horde are going to be"given" these great new jobs,let me remind you that the people holding those jobs are smarter than you, theyare stronger than you and they are meaner than you and any of the liberalhorde.

As for as"a forward thinking visionary": BH Obama wants to go BACK to theClinton years. How forward does BH Obama'svision when all he can think of is to go BACK 16 years??

Ivan88
09-07-2012, 01:43 PM
Who is gonna arrange stunning defeats of the US Military? Just don't see that happening.
Congratulations, you are not supposed to see that. Enjoy the dialectical party line as long as you can.

shaarona
09-07-2012, 02:17 PM
Congratulations, you are not supposed to see that. Enjoy the dialectical party line as long as you can.

Who will be the NEW super power?

Come on .. spit it out.

GrumpyDog
09-07-2012, 09:44 PM
You should avoid posting in the middle of the night. :grin:

LOL! And especially right after being mesmerized by DNC pagentry.

Awryly
09-08-2012, 01:34 AM
LOL! And especially right after being mesmerized by DNC pagentry.


Which made the RNC's effort look like a gale of deadening flatus.

How do any of you people ever vote for those clowns? Are your olfactory senses stifled by snorting drugs?

Awryly
09-20-2012, 11:57 PM
Has Romney said anything stupid lately?

Like 99% of Americans are poorer than he is? But not yet enough?

GrumpyDog
09-21-2012, 10:51 AM
The Iranians have no more intention of bombing Israel than they have of building a nuclear weapon.

But, if Israel bombed them, all bets are off. And if Syria has chemical and biological weapons, you can be sure Ian does too. At least the Israelis think so. They're all running around with gas masks.

And don't forget that Israel is geographically tiny and its population centred in large cities. Easy pickings.

I agree the Iranians are rational. But I'm not so sure the Israelis are.

http://www.naturaldogfoodexpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Dog-with-Gas-Mask4.jpg



GrumpyDog is prepared.

GrumpyDog
09-22-2012, 04:49 PM
Has Romney said anything stupid lately?

Like 99% of Americans are poorer than he is? But not yet enough?


http://www.bartcop.com/romney-wives-3000.jpg

Awryly
09-22-2012, 08:32 PM
"If somebody's dumb enough to ask me to go to a political convention and say something, they're gonna have to take what they get" - Clint Eastwood

Not many people get to Wait on Godot at a Republican convention.

At least, not so obviously.

Chris
09-22-2012, 09:00 PM
Nothing to be done.

Clint Eastwood on Obama, the Death Penalty, and More (http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/clint-eastwood-interview-1012#ixzz27FoDnT7S)

http://i.snag.gy/jzigi.jpg


...

Then he came in, tall and rangy as ever, but also creaky, with his voice not only roughened but softened with age, at once unmistakable but also slightly more anonymous, one of its kind — an old man's voice — rather than absolutely singular. I handed him an article I wrote, on the subject of Obama and killing, because I wanted to talk to him about killing during the interview. But he looked at the picture, and wanted to talk to me about Obama. "There are two kinds of people in this world," he said. "'I' people and 'we' people. I've always tried to be a 'we' person. I think that our president is an 'I' person. He speaks as though he killed Osama bin Laden himself."

...

Then, when the interview was over, he went back to speaking about Obama. He said that people took the Halftime in America commercial to mean that he was supportive of the president politically; but they were mistaken. The president had awarded him the Medal of the Arts, but he'd not attended the ceremony, he said, and then he got down to what he objected to most: "Can you imagine being him, surrounded by people all the time? I'd hate it. But he seems to like it. He seems to like what I'd hate, all the trappings of power. He said that if he failed in his first term he wouldn't seek a second. Well, here he is — unemployment's still up around 8 percent — and he's doing anything he possibly can to keep power. There's no way he's going to give it up."

...

Awryly
09-22-2012, 09:40 PM
Nothing to be done.

Clint Eastwood on Obama, the Death Penalty, and More (http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/clint-eastwood-interview-1012#ixzz27FoDnT7S)

http://i.snag.gy/jzigi.jpg

Personally, I thought the empty chair he was talking to won the debate.

Conley
09-22-2012, 09:46 PM
I forgot about that whole car commercial brou-ha-ha...maybe that added to him wanting to speak at the RNC. It's funny how so many republicans get all pissy when guys like Alec Baldwin and Sean Penn push into politics, but when Clint is actually a speaker at national convention it's the greatest thing ever. Course Clint was always a much more likeable guy than the other two names I mentioned and does have the mayoral political background. I just don't care when these guys lecture on about politics, their opinions matter to me exactly as much as Joe the Plumber's...zippo.

Awryly
11-01-2012, 07:16 PM
Looks as though Christie is no longer in love with Romney.

It will be hilarious if, like Bloomberg, he turns in his tracks and endorses Obama.

But Romney is used to flip-flopping - being that art's greatest exponent. So he would have no cause to mind.