Don't be Stupid; VOTE!

[Cigar]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWryKr-UkAA04_S.jpg

[Tahuyaman]

That's right, don't worry about sticking with your principles. Vote for someone you know will be a disaster because he or she represents the right political party

[Cigar]

That's right, don't worry about sticking with your principles. Vote for someone you know will be a disaster because he or she represents the right political party

:grin: Sure is better than Publishing an Autopsy

[Tahuyaman]

:grin: Sure is better than Publishing an Autopsy
Sure if party loyalty is the most important thing, but I'm not concerned with that.

[Fagan_the_Pagan]

That's right, don't worry about sticking with your principles. Vote for someone you know will be a disaster because he or she represents the right political party
What do you know? I actually agree with you for once! I for one feel that party loyalty is bad for America, and is a problem on both sides of the equation.

I was a bit disappointed when I saw that this was a partisan post and not just a general, HEY EVERYONE, GET OUT AND VOTE.

[Cigar]

Sure if party loyalty is the most important thing, but I'm not concerned with that.

Glad to hear you're not concerned, people are counting on it.

[Tahuyaman]

this "lesser of two evils" thing and blind partisanship is what has given us these incompetent leaders who do harm to the nation as a whole.

[Dangermouse]

Faced with your candidate not making it through, you vote for the person most likely to beat the candidate you hate most.

Or don't vote at all, since it only encourages politicians.

[Tahuyaman]

What do you know? I actually agree with you for once! I for one feel that party loyalty is bad for America, and is a problem on both sides of the equation.

I was a bit disappointed when I saw that this was a partisan post and not just a general, HEY EVERYONE, GET OUT AND VOTE.

Unfortunately, party identification is what guides the vote of way too many people. They have convinced themselves that's a virtue to take pride in.

[Tahuyaman]

Glad to hear you're not concerned, people are counting on it.

By being a partisan hack, you are demonstrating clearly that you don't care about what's best for everyone.

[Fagan_the_Pagan]

If enough people were brave enough to do it, they could write in the candidate that they ACTUALLY believed in, and that person could win. They combination of party loyalty and "lesser of two evils" mentality prevents it.

[Cigar]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/If-Then-Else-diagram.svg/1049px-If-Then-Else-diagram.svg.png

[Mac-7]

What do you know? I actually agree with you for once! I for one feel that party loyalty is bad for America, and is a problem on both sides of the equation.



And I agree with cigar.

A card carrying liberal like him knows that hillary or bernie represents his principles better than trump or cruz.

So if he or any liberal who wants all the goofy things cigar wants does not get his first choice too bad.

Anyone the democrats nominate is sure to be better for liberals than the republican alternative.

[Fagan_the_Pagan]

And I agree with cigar.

A card carrying liberal like him knows that hillary or bernie represents his principles better than trump or cruz.

So if he or any liberal who wants all the goofy things cigar wants does not get his first choice too bad.

Anyone the democrats nominate is sure to be better for liberals than the republican alternative.

I agree that if you support Hillary, Bernie would be better than Trump or Cruz and vice versa, but that person might not be the BEST person for you. There may well be a third party/independent candidate that better matches your desires.

[Mac-7]

I agree that if you support Hillary, Bernie would be better than Trump or Cruz and vice versa, but that person might not be the BEST person for you. There may well be a third party/independent candidate that better matches your desires.

the next president will be a democrat or a repub

those are the only two realistic choices

[Tahuyaman]

the next president will be a democrat or a repub

those are the only two realistic choices

And why do you suppose millions and millions of informed people refuse to vote for POTUS? Because often times the choices are unacceptable. I don't know if that will be the case later this year.

[Chris]

Cigar, you poison the well with your illogic. But I see birds of a feather flock together.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qxsQ7jJJcEA

[Cigar]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I learned at an early age the Compromise isn't a bad thing, because I like most Adults, know that no one ever gets everything they want all the time.

Only Children think like that.

[Tahuyaman]

Compromise is one thing, but abandoning your principles is a step beyond compromise.

[Tahuyaman]

I don't expect partisan hacks on either side to understand.

[Fagan_the_Pagan]

If all those people who don't vote because the idea that a democrat or a republican would be elected president was a foregone conclusion would INSTEAD vote for the same third party candidate, that candidate would WIN. Not like it is likely to actually HAPPEN, because too many of them are apathetic, and it's not like they'd agree on the same candidate, but the fact is that the people, if they chose to EXERCISE their power could work wonders. The system has just convinced them that they can't, and as Hamlet says "There's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

[Cigar]

If all those people who don't vote because the idea that a democrat or a republican would be elected president was a foregone conclusion would INSTEAD vote for the same third party candidate, that candidate would WIN. Not like it is likely to actually HAPPEN, because too many of them are apathetic, and it's not like they'd agree on the same candidate, but the fact is that the people, if they chose to EXERCISE their power could work wonders. The system has just convinced them that they can't, and as Hamlet says "There's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

Do you remember the images of the long lines at the Voting Facilities in the south hours after Obama was declared the winner. :laugh:

[Tahuyaman]

Do you remember the images of the long lines at the Voting Facilities in the south hours after Obama was declared the winner. :laugh:

Why is someone declared the winner hours before the polls close?

[maineman]

Again: even if your approach the voting booth with the belief that neither of the two candidates is worth the powder to blow them to hell... but you can discern that one is the lesser of two evils.... if your chose not to vote for either the lesser or the grater of two evils, you have ZERO right to bitch if the GREATER of two evils is elected.

In 2000, five thousand granola crunching greenies in New Hampshire voted for Ralph Nader.... because they couldn't bring themselves to vote for either Gore or Bush....

Gore, the guy who produced "An Inconvenient Truth" and was certainly sympathetic to the green party issues versus Bush, an oil man who could have given a rat's ass about the environment. Their votes for Nader put Bush in the White House. I would actually piss on the graves of greenies from New Hampshire if I ever found myself anywhere in that state other than the tax free liquor store. What a bunch of principled idiots!

[Chris]

Again: even if your approach the voting booth with the belief that neither of the two candidates is worth the powder to blow them to hell... but you can discern that one is the lesser of two evils.... if your chose not to vote for either the lesser or the grater of two evils, you have ZERO right to bitch if the GREATER of two evils is elected.

In 2000, five thousand granola crunching greenies in New Hampshire voted for Ralph Nader.... because they couldn't bring themselves to vote for either Gore or Bush....

Gore, the guy who produced "An Inconvenient Truth" and was certainly sympathetic to the green party issues versus Bush, an oil man who could have given a rat's ass about the environment. Their votes for Nader put Bush in the White House. I would actually piss on the graves of greenies from New Hampshire if I ever found myself anywhere in that state other than the tax free liquor store. What a bunch of principled idiots!


Sorry, but, as Carlin explains, you vote, you have no reason to complain. Why, because you sanction the system that results in two equal evils running for office.

[Cigar]

Why is someone declared the winner hours before the polls close?

Good reason to not watch Fox News :biglaugh:

[Tahuyaman]

Sorry, but, as Carlin explains, you vote, you have no reason to complain. Why, because you sanction the system that results in two equal evils running for office.

You have less reason to complain if you are one of those who pit the incompetents in office.

[Cigar]

You have less reason to complain if you are one of those who pit the incompetents in office.

So tell us, who are competent GOP candidates ?

[Mac-7]

And why do you suppose millions and millions of informed people refuse to vote for POTUS?

Im sure they have their reasons just as I have

But they are no smarter than the rest of us who at least know that trump or cruz is better than hillary.

because for me thats what it boils down to

[Mac-7]

Sorry, but, as Carlin explains, you vote, you have no reason to complain. Why, because you sanction the system that results in two equal evils running for office.

If you dont vote you have no reason to complain.

[Mac-7]

Again: even if your approach the voting booth with the belief that neither of the two candidates is worth the powder to blow them to hell... but you can discern that one is the lesser of two evils.... if your chose not to vote for either the lesser or the grater of two evils, you have ZERO right to $#@! if the GREATER of two evils is elected.

In 2000, five thousand granola crunching greenies in New Hampshire voted for Ralph Nader.... because they couldn't bring themselves to vote for either Gore or Bush....

Gore, the guy who produced "An Inconvenient Truth" and was certainly sympathetic to the green party issues versus Bush, an oil man who could have given a rat's ass about the environment. Their votes for Nader put Bush in the White House. I would actually piss on the graves of greenies from New Hampshire if I ever found myself anywhere in that state other than the tax free liquor store. What a bunch of principled idiots!

Bush is a fool.

But Gore is a bigger fool

[Chris]

If you dont vote you have no reason to complain.

And your argument is....

[maineman]

Sorry, but, as Carlin explains, you vote, you have no reason to complain. Why, because you sanction the system that results in two equal evils running for office.

and if you DON'T vote, you have no reason to complain either. If you think that you have two equally evil choices, look to the platforms they are running on, and vote for the platform. To sit back and abdicate your role in choosing a president really gives you ZERO right to bitch about what transpires thereafter.

[Mac-7]

And your argument is....

You shirked your civic duty.

[Chris]

and if you DON'T vote, you have no reason to complain either. If you think that you have two equally evil choices, look to the platforms they are running on, and vote for the platform. To sit back and abdicate your role in choosing a president really gives you ZERO right to bitch about what transpires thereafter.

And your argument for that is...

[Chris]

You shirked your civic duty.

Don't repeat, give an argument...

[Fagan_the_Pagan]

So some people say that you don't get to complain if you don't vote, while others say you don't get to complain if you DO vote.

I love George Carlin, but I don't think I can agree with him on this. How is refusing to vote based on a belief that it is "sanctioning a system that results in two equal evils running for office" a productive approach to take?

[maineman]

And your argument for that is...

yawn....

Hey Chris.... don't vote if you don't want to. I could personally give a shit either way.

[Mac-7]

Don't repeat, give an argument...

Doing your civic duty does not require an argument.

You let others decide the direction of the country which means you have no right to complain now.

[Cigar]

Doing your civic duty does not require an argument.

You let others decide the direction of the country which means you have no right to complain now.

It's far easier and safer to just complain :laugh:

[maineman]

Bush is a fool.

But Gore is a bigger fool

your opinion means nothing in regard to this discussion. the fact remains, 5000 green party voters in New Hampshire put the less green of the two major party candidates in office. I suppose when they are running their air conditioners in November, they can still be proud that they voted their conscience.

[The Xl]

Voting for the lesser of the evils keeps this deeply flawed system in tact. I refuse to participate in that.

[maineman]

Voting for the lesser of the evils keeps this deeply flawed system in tact. I refuse to participate in that.

but yet, you will LIVE in a country where that system dictates myriad aspects of your life. smart. very smart.

[Cigar]

Voting for the lesser of the evils keeps this deeply flawed system in tact. I refuse to participate in that.

I refuse to stop you

[Fagan_the_Pagan]

Voting for the lesser of the evils keeps this deeply flawed system in tact. I refuse to participate in that.
In that case, what are you going to do about the deeply flawed system?

[Tahuyaman]

If you dont vote you have no reason to complain.


I don't buy that. I say if you vote for someone you know is not up to the job or the lesser of two evils. you have no reason to complain when they verify it.

[Tahuyaman]

Voting for the lesser of the evils keeps this deeply flawed system in tact. I refuse to participate in that.

We agree about half the time. this is one of those times.

[Fagan_the_Pagan]

In that case, what are you going to do about the deeply flawed system?


I'm serious. If you have a better idea I want to know about it so that I can do it too.

[Cigar]

I don't buy that. I say if you vote for someone you know is not up to the job or the lesser of two evils. you have no reason to complain when they verify it.

But I thought you were excited about having the majority :laugh:

[Tahuyaman]

Good reason to not watch Fox News :biglaugh:
Are you of the belief that only Fox News projects winners with less than 5 or 10% of the vote tallied in each state?

[Tahuyaman]

But I thought you were excited about having the majority :laugh:

Are you still feeling the effects of alcohol from last night?

[Cigar]

Are you of the belief that only Fox News projects winners with less than 5 or 10% of the vote tallied in each state?

http://mediamatters.org/static/images/item/fnc-ff-20121104-morris.jpg

[The Xl]

but yet, you will LIVE in a country where that system dictates myriad aspects of your life. smart. very smart.The system exists as is because geniuses like you continue to support and validate it. And you have damaged the country to no end.

[Tahuyaman]

The system exists as is because geniuses like you continue to support and validate it. And you have damaged the country to no end.

I agree again.

[Mac-7]

I don't buy that. I say if you vote for some one you know is not up to the job or the lesser of two evils. you have no reason to complain when they verify it.

When the choice is hillary or any tepublican at the lsat debate I pick the republican.

Even Bush who I cant stand wpuld be better than hillary

And I thing trump or cruz would be great choices.

[The Xl]

In that case, what are you going to do about the deeply flawed system?

Don't vote for the criminals, either abstain from voting or vote third party

Playing the lesser of two evil game over and over has gotten us Donald fucking Trump vs a criminal establishment crony in Hillary Clinton. Fucking unacceptable.

[The Xl]

I have to lol at those who potshot Trump. You're aware that your frontrunner is easily the most openly corrupt, shady, potentially criminal, and deeply establishment candidate in the history of this country, yes? Trump is kinda a joke, as most of the rest of the field is, but lol at clowning anyone when you're parading Hillary Clinton.

[Cigar]

The system exists as is because geniuses like you continue to support and validate it. And you have damaged the country to no end.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTaZnRrtgsw8xB_UnBrDZpq9tYYi-bgwa1EbEdXY87x9e-Q1jJZ

[Captain Obvious]

I have to lol at those who potshot Trump. You're aware that your frontrunner is easily the most openly corrupt, shady, potentially criminal, and deeply establishment candidate in the history of this country, yes? Trump is kinda a joke, as most of the rest of the field is, but lol at clowning anyone when you're parading Hillary Clinton.

They don't care if their QB is a rapist, as long as he throws TD passes.

[The Xl]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTaZnRrtgsw8xB_UnBrDZpq9tYYi-bgwa1EbEdXY87x9e-Q1jJZ

Your next substantive post will be your first, and your last.

[Cigar]

I have to lol at those who potshot Trump. You're aware that your frontrunner is easily the most openly corrupt, shady, potentially criminal, and deeply establishment candidate in the history of this country, yes? Trump is kinda a joke, as most of the rest of the field is, but lol at clowning anyone when you're parading Hillary Clinton.

Got to have skills to beat Voting Suppression Republicans these days :laugh:

[maineman]

The system exists as is because geniuses like you continue to support and validate it. And you have damaged the country to no end.

Our system of government exists because people like me exercise our right to vote?

whatever blows your skirt up.

[The Xl]

They don't care if their QB is a rapist, as long as he throws TD passes.

No kidding. But the nerve to attack someone else. I mean, fucking lol.

[The Xl]

Our system of government exists because people like me exercise our right to vote?

whatever blows your skirt up.

I don't believe I said that, nice logical fallacy though, the last refuge of the dull and desperate.

[maineman]

XI... if you really are serious about your beliefs, why in the world are you not submitting your name in primaries? To sit on the sidelines and whine, without doing anything substantive to change the system you scoff at is just plain fucking lazy, imho.

[The Xl]

XI... if you really are serious about your beliefs, why in the world are you not submitting your name in primaries? To sit on the sidelines and whine, without doing anything substantive to change the system you scoff at is just plain fucking lazy, imho.

This is a completely retarded and desperate post.

[Tahuyaman]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTaZnRrtgsw8xB_UnBrDZpq9tYYi-bgwa1EbEdXY87x9e-Q1jJZ


This had actually had the potential to be a good discussion, but Cigar is his own thread.

[Cigar]

XI... if you really are serious about your beliefs, why in the world are you not submitting your name in primaries? To sit on the sidelines and whine, without doing anything substantive to change the system you scoff at is just plain $#@!ing lazy, imho.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r273/bengm/postofthday-41.gif

[maineman]

I don't believe I said that, nice logical fallacy though, the last refuge of the dull and desperate.

I vote. When in Maine, I routinely participated in county and state party meetings where I made my concerns known, What, besides whining, have YOU done to change the direction of American politics?

[Tahuyaman]

XI... if you really are serious about your beliefs, why in the world are you not submitting your name in primaries? To sit on the sidelines and whine, without doing anything substantive to change the system you scoff at is just plain $#@!ing lazy, imho.


This is a completely retarded and desperate post.

It's his default position.

[maineman]

This is a completely retarded and desperate post.

why do you castigate it without refuting it?

[The Xl]

Right, what a post. Asking why I, no name with no corporate backers, aren't running, and then pretending you made some brilliant gotcha point. Genius.

Simpletons.

[maineman]

It's his default position.

geez.. Tahuyaman... do I have to kick the retarded kid in the wheelchair in this thread, too?

[The Xl]

why do you castigate it without refuting it?

It's not even worth responding to seriously. I have no name and wouldn't have the money to run a campaign. Far more famous people with far more money and backers have crashed.

I mean, are you seriously trying to stick this point?

[Tahuyaman]

geez.. @Tahuyaman (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1365)... do I have to kick the retarded kid in the wheelchair in this thread, too?

See, his default position is making dumb and delusional comments.

Oh well.

[The Xl]

See, his default position is making dumb and delusional comments.

Oh well.

It seems so.

[maineman]

Right, what a post. Asking why I, no name with no corporate backers, aren't running, and then pretending you made some brilliant gotcha point. Genius.

Simpletons.

I didn't say you needed to run in a presidential primary. If you want to change the system.... sitting outside it, and not voting, and not doing anything other than whining will not accomplish that. Run for your local congressional seat... or your local city council seat.... get involved. Find ways within the system to get your voice heard.

But we both know that is too much work for a lazy fuck like you... just stay on the sidelines and keep whining. I mean, it's been really an effective strategy thus far, hasn't it?

[Tahuyaman]

It's not even worth responding to seriously. I have no name and wouldn't have the money to run a campaign. Far more famous people with far more money and backers have crashed.

I mean, are you seriously trying to stick this point?

Yes, he will seriously stick to silly points.

There is no responsibility to run for office yourself if you can't support any of the candidates.

[maineman]

It seems so.

get a room. he like young boys.

[maineman]

It's not even worth responding to seriously. I have no name and wouldn't have the money to run a campaign. Far more famous people with far more money and backers have crashed.

I mean, are you seriously trying to stick this point?

are you seriously trying to say that you have NO ability to work within the system to effect change?

[Tahuyaman]

It seems so.

he is consistent though.

[maineman]

Yes, he will seriously stick to silly points.

There is no responsibility to run for office yourself if you can't support any of the candidates.

and I never suggested it was anyone's "responsibility". I merely point out that people who sit on the sidelines and DO nothing to effect change and don't even vote have no real right to complain when government doesn't perform the way they want it to.

[Fagan_the_Pagan]

Vote Third Party is something I can absolutely get behind, when there is such a candidate I believe in. In fact, I agree that it is preferable.

[Tahuyaman]

I didn't say you needed to run in a presidential primary.



XI... if you really are serious about your beliefs, why in the world are you not submitting your name in primaries?

[maineman]

I guess Tahuyaman is of the belief that only the presidency has primaries.

Why am I not surprised?

[The Xl]

I didn't say you needed to run in a presidential primary. If you want to change the system.... sitting outside it, and not voting, and not doing anything other than whining will not accomplish that. Run for your local congressional seat... or your local city council seat.... get involved. Find ways within the system to get your voice heard.

But we both know that is too much work for a lazy fuck like you... just stay on the sidelines and keep whining. I mean, it's been really an effective strategy thus far, hasn't it?

I support 3rd party candidates I feel are worth it with money and votes. I'm not going to do anything locally in the liberal cesspool call New York.

And no, there isn't much change I could make, and no, I'm not going to, nor am l obligated to pursue some shitty fruitless political career.

[The Xl]

and I never suggested it was anyone's "responsibility". I merely point out that people who sit on the sidelines and DO nothing to effect change and don't even vote have no real right to complain when government doesn't perform the way they want it to.
I do vote when someone doesn't suck in the third parties. And I absolutely have every right to complain when you people force me to be governed by absolute fucking jokes. Donald trump and Hillary Clinton, lmfao

[Tahuyaman]

I guess @Tahuyaman (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1365) is of the belief that only the presidency has primaries.

Why am I not surprised?


Originally Posted by maineman
I didn't say you needed to run in a presidential primary.






riginally Posted by maineman
XI... if you really are serious about your beliefs, why in the world are you not submitting your name in primaries?



Looks like maineman is denying his past comments again.

[maineman]

Vote Third Party is something I can absolutely get behind, when there is such a candidate I believe in. In fact, I agree that it is preferable.

again... imo, it is a wasted vote. In fact, it can be a vote that runs counter to your overall world view. Case in point: New Hampshire in 2000. Green Party voters in that state gave their state's electoral college votes to Bush by voting for Nader. Nader never had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the White House, but by voting for him, they put an anti-environmental oil man in office. Well played. I'm sure they sleep well ... even when they'll be running their air conditioners in November any year now.

[maineman]

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/56048-Don-t-be-Stupid-VOTE!/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by maineman http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/56048-Don-t-be-Stupid-VOTE!/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/56048-Don-t-be-Stupid-VOTE!/showthread.php?p=1387321#post1387321)
I didn't say you needed to run in a presidential primary.





http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/56048-Don-t-be-Stupid-VOTE!/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by maineman
XI... if you really are serious about your beliefs, why in the world are you not submitting your name in primaries?



Looks like maineman is denying his past comments again.

I said "primaries", not "presidential primaries".

English really IS your second language, I have to believe.

My Lord, you're dumber than a sack of hair.

[Captain Obvious]

again... imo, it is a wasted vote. In fact, it can be a vote that runs counter to your overall world view. Case in point: New Hampshire in 2000. Green Party voters in that state gave their state's electoral college votes to Bush by voting for Nader. Nader never had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the White House, but by voting for him, they put an anti-environmental oil man in office. Well played. I'm sure they sleep well ... even when they'll be running their air conditioners in November any year now.

Donald Trump is prime-time proof that voting against the establishment, third party isn't a waste.

If there is a take-away from Trump's stunning success so far it's that voters (smart voters) are sick of yesterday's chopped liver establishment.

Conservatives mostly, liberals remain fucking clueless.

[Tahuyaman]

Bill Clinton was elected and reelected and did not receive even 50% of the popular vote either time. Was that because of candidates outside the two major parties syphoning off votes?

[Tahuyaman]

I said "primaries", not "presidential primaries".

English really IS your second language, I have to believe.

My Lord, you're dumber than a sack of hair.

This guy parses words more than anyone I've seen. He makes statements, then tries to pass them off on to others. I'm not playing his silly game.

[maineman]

If someone wants to change the political system, they can first, simply vote. Or they can do that AND contribute to political candidates. Or, they can participate in their party's policy making decisions by becoming a part of their party's local county or state committees, or they can put their names up in a primary election for any level of local, state, or national elected offices.

I was taught that in civics class in junior high school. It would seem that Tahuyaman was smoking dope or bending down behind a glory hole in the boy's room when that was taught at his school.

[Cigar]

You Lost, Get Over It

[Tahuyaman]

Donald Trump is prime-time proof that voting against the establishment, third party isn't a waste.

If there is a take-away from Trump's stunning success so far it's that voters (smart voters) are sick of yesterday's chopped liver establishment.

Conservatives mostly, liberals remain $#@!ing clueless.

It is a fact that conservatives, as proven in the last two elections, will sit out if the candidate does not demonstrate consistent conservative principles.

[maineman]

This guy parses words more than anyone I've seen. He makes statements, then tries to pass them off on to others. I'm not playing his silly game.

It is not "parsing" to purposely NOT put the word "presidential" in front of the word "primaries". I didn't put the word "presidential" in front of "primaries" for the simple reason that I was not referring to presidential primaries, but ANY primary where someone throws their hat into the ring and seeks their party's nomination for whatever office they seek.

For you, the use of precision in the English language is a "silly game". You're an idiot for such a foolish view.

[Tahuyaman]

If someone wants to change the political system, they can first, simply vote. Or they can do that AND contribute to political candidates. Or, they can participate in their party's policy making decisions by becoming a part of their party's local county or state committees, or they can put their names up in a primary election for any level of local, state, or national elected offices.

I was taught that in civics class in junior high school. It would seem that @Tahuyaman (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1365) was smoking dope or bending down behind a glory hole in the boy's room when that was taught at his school.


Originally Posted by maineman
I didn't say you needed to run in a presidential primary.


Originally Posted by maineman
XI... if you really are serious about your beliefs, why in the world are you not submitting your name in primaries?

I simply reposted your words.

[maineman]

did you notice the word "didn't" in the second quoted post?

that's because I didn't say that. I said, simply, "primaries". There are MANY primaries in every state. Only one, every four years, is a presidential primary. I never inferred that XI needed to run in a presidential primary. Again, Tahuyaman.... you're a housepainter when it comes to the English language. Don't try and talk about anything more nuanced than that, you clearly do not have the skill set.

[Tahuyaman]

One cal always tell when someone knows they are on the losing side of a discussion. They go to the sex offender remarks. that's too bad.

[maineman]

One cal always tell when someone knows they are on the losing side of a discussion. They go to the sex offender remarks. that's too bad.

actually one can tell when someone is losing when they cannot refute the posts of their opponent.

I never once suggested or inferred that XI needed to run in a presidential primary to be able to have an impact.

[maineman]

refute this Tahuyaman:


did you notice the word "didn't" in the second quoted post?

that's because I didn't say that. I said, simply, "primaries". There are MANY primaries in every state. Only one, every four years, is a presidential primary. I never inferred that XI needed to run in a presidential primary. Again, Tahuyaman.... you're a housepainter when it comes to the English language. Don't try and talk about anything more nuanced than that, you clearly do not have the skill set.

[maineman]

Refute this Tahuyaman:


It is not "parsing" to purposely NOT put the word "presidential" in front of the word "primaries". I didn't put the word "presidential" in front of "primaries" for the simple reason that I was not referring to presidential primaries, but ANY primary where someone throws their hat into the ring and seeks their party's nomination for whatever office they seek.

For you, the use of precision in the English language is a "silly game". You're an idiot for such a foolish view.

[Tahuyaman]

did you notice the word "didn't" in the second quoted post?

that's because I didn't say that. I said, simply, "primaries". There are MANY primaries in every state. Only one, every four years, is a presidential primary. I never inferred that XI needed to run in a presidential primary. Again, @Tahuyaman (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1365).... you're a housepainter when it comes to the English language. Don't try and talk about anything more nuanced than that, you clearly do not have the skill set.

And where did I claim that there's a presidential primary?

Now stay on point. Don't swerve away or divert. Stay focused.

[maineman]

refute this Tahuyaman:


If someone wants to change the political system, they can first, simply vote. Or they can do that AND contribute to political candidates. Or, they can participate in their party's policy making decisions by becoming a part of their party's local county or state committees, or they can put their names up in a primary election for any level of local, state, or national elected offices.

[maineman]

Tahuyaman

explain for us the purpose of post #84.

[Tahuyaman]

For the sake of everyone else, I'm going to be forced to simply ignore maineman. He gets too sidetracked and irrational when he's confronted by me using his own words. He just gets so red-assed, he loses control.

Then he generally asks me to explain and defend his words. I can't do that.

Seriously.

[maineman]

and post #88

[maineman]

For the sake of everyone else, I'm going to be forced to simply ignore maineman. He gets too sidetracked and irrational when he's confronted by me using his own words. He just gets so red-assed, he loses control.

Seriously.

which words of mine have you "confronted"me with, pray tell?

[Captain Obvious]

You two should buy a couple of baseball bats and book a room in Tulsa OK.

[maineman]

You two should buy a couple of baseball bats and book a room in Tulsa OK.
I'd just bring my Glock

[ThaiBoxer]

That's right, don't worry about sticking with your principles. Vote for someone you know will be a disaster because he or she represents the right political party

If I wanted to vote for someone who I knew would be a disaster I'd vote for a Republican.

[maineman]

refusing to vote for the lesser of two evils negates your right to bitch when the greater of two evils is elected.

[Tahuyaman]

If I wanted to vote for someone who I knew would be a disaster I'd vote for a Republican.

If I valued your opinion I'd be a miserable human being

[maineman]

If you want a better candidate than those running, you need to inject yourself into your party's process and work from within to ensure that a better candidate is nominated next time. Staying on the sidelines is bad. Staying on the sidelines and not even voting is worse.

[ThaiBoxer]

If I valued your opinion I'd be a miserable human being

You'd also be less ignorant.

[Tahuyaman]

I don't know how anyone could feel good about voting for a person to lead this country who they know or believe is not able to handle the job in any effective manner what-so-ever.

[Tahuyaman]

You'd also be less ignorant.


That's where you are wrong kid. You are perhaps one of the most uniformed and uneducated people on this message board. That 14 or 15 year old kid from Australia is miles ahead of you.

You are too ignorant to even know that there are many things that you don't know.

[Tahuyaman]

I'd just bring my Glock

You'd need it

[maineman]

You'd need it

need it? that's irrelevant, I'd gladly use it.

[maineman]

That's where you are wrong kid. You are perhaps one of the most uniformed and uneducated people on this message board. That 14 or 15 year old kid from Australia is miles ahead of you.

You are too ignorant to even know that there are many things that you don't know.

the irony is overwhelming.

[maineman]

I don't know how anyone could feel good about voting for a person to lead this country who they know or believe is not able to handle the job in any effective manner what-so-ever.

so you think that voting is an exercise one undertakes solely in order to FEEL good?

[Tahuyaman]

The only people supporting this lesser of two evils concept of voting are the most rabid partisans here. The very people who have brought us to this dysfunctional place we are today.

[Tahuyaman]

so you think that voting is an exercise one undertakes solely in order to FEEL good?

No, but one needs to have confidence that they have made the right choice.

[maineman]

The only people supporting this lesser of two evils concept of voting are the most rabid partisans here. The very people who have brought us to this dysfunctional place we are today.

and you think that the way OUT of this dysfunctional place is to abdicate your rights and responsibilities as a citizen?

again: NOT voting for the lesser of two evils removes your right to whine when the greater of two evils is elected.

Well... technically, you can continue to whine all you want, but those of us who take a real interest in our democracy will continue to have the right to tell you to go fuck yourself.

[maineman]

No, but one needs to have confidence that they have made the right choice.

wrong. one only needs to have the belief, in their hearts, that they have made the better choice.

[Tahuyaman]

need it? that's irrelevant, I'd gladly use it.
You know.... I think you are not nearly as bright as you think you are. I think you are nothing but a partisan hack. I think you are intentionally ignorant and intellectually dishonest. I believe you are basically a fraud, but I wouldn't kill you if I had the chance. You're just not that important

Your cowardly threat of harm is exposing you to be just what I say you are.

[Tahuyaman]

wrong. one only needs to have the belief, in their hearts, that they have made the better choice.

And that would give you confidence that you made the right choice.

[Tahuyaman]

and you think that the way OUT of this dysfunctional place is to abdicate your rights and responsibilities as a citizen?

again: NOT voting for the lesser of two evils removes your right to whine when the greater of two evils is elected.

Well... technically, you can continue to whine all you want, but those of us who take a real interest in our democracy will continue to have the right to tell you to go $#@! yourself.

I have the right to refuse to vote for people I truly believe are not qualified or able to lead this nation.

Your default response to disagreement is noted.

[maineman]

You know.... I think you are not nearly as bright as you think you are. I think you are nothing but a partisan hack. I think you are intentionally ignorant and intellectually dishonest. I believe you are basically a fraud, but I wouldn't kill you if I had the chance. You're just not that important

Your cowardly threat of harm is exposing you to be just what I say you are.

I am none of those things, but I DO own a Glock, and I WOULD use it on you if you gave me even the slightest reason to.

I think you are a guy who bloviates and overstates his case in grand terms, and, when called on it, runs away and hides.


Like the trickle down thread.... you made a statement... I disproved it... you made another statement... I disproved that.... you moved the goal posts and I pointed that out.... and then you ran away.

pure cowardice. I am sure glad that E-9's in today's Army aren't that yellow.

[maineman]

I have the right to refuse to vote for people I truly believe are not qualified or able to lead this nation.

Your default response to disagreement is noted.

of course you have the right to sit on the sidelines... I never questioned that.

I merely stated that those who sit on the sidelines and then bitch, after the fact, about the results of the game, deserve no voice in what happens from there on out.

[Tahuyaman]

I am none of those things, but I DO own a Glock, and I WOULD use it on you if you gave me even the slightest reason to.

I think you are a guy who bloviates and overstates his case in grand terms, and, when called on it, runs away and hides.


Like the trickle down thread.... you made a statement... I disproved it... you made another statement... I disproved that.... you moved the goal posts and I pointed that out.... and then you ran away.

pure cowardice. I am sure glad that E-9's in today's Army aren't that yellow.

Thank you for giving my comments more credibility. The more you respond, the more you verify my comments.

I'm sure that everyone here admires you greatly and is impressed with your willingness to threaten people with death over the internet. I know I'm impressed.

When I get back down to my place in Sayulita, I'll be sure to look over my shoulder checking for a fat slob trying to be sneaky.

[Tahuyaman]

of course you have the right to sit on the sidelines... I never questioned that.

I merely stated that those who sit on the sidelines and then $#@!, after the fact, about the results of the game, deserve no voice in what happens from there on out.

There's no virtue in choosing one unacceptable candidate over another unacceptable candidate.

[Hal Jordan]

wrong. one only needs to have the belief, in their hearts, that they have made the better choice.

So if one of the main parties ran Hitler, and the other ran Stalin, you would choose one of those two?

[maineman]

Thank you for giving my comments more credibility. The more you respond, the more you verify my comments.

I'm sure that everyone here admires you greatly and is impressed with your willingness to threaten people with death over the internet. I know I'm impressed.

When I get back down to my place in Sayulita, I'll be sure to look over my shoulder checking for a fat slob trying to be sneaky.

no threat implied or intended. I only said I'd shoot you if you gave me a reason to. I'd shoot anybody if they gave me a reason to.

but it's good to know I will negatively impact your next vacation, and also know that you'll be on the lookout for the wrong guy. Heck... my wife thinks I need to put on a few pounds.

[maineman]

So if one of the main parties ran Hitler, and the other ran Stalin, you would choose one of those two?

actually... if THOSE were the choices - which is a ridiculously absurd scenario - I'd move back away from the US and go live - again - overseas.

[maineman]

There's no virtue in choosing one unacceptable candidate over another unacceptable candidate.

where does it say that voters are required to necessarily feel virtuous in order to participate in democracy? Democracy is a mess. If you vote, you can either accept ownership in the mess when you've voted for the winner, or bitch about the mess if you voted for the loser. If you don't vote, and THEN you bitch, the people who DO vote scoff at you and ignore your opinions.

[Hal Jordan]

actually... if THOSE were the choices - which is a ridiculously absurd scenario - I'd move back away from the US and go live - again - overseas.

And you imply that those who vote third party has no right to bitch? If you're willing to cut and run because things get tougher, you're the one who has no right to bitch.

Also, if you take a look at our political landscape right now, it's really not that far-fetched, other than the fact that we'd need to bring them back to life.

[Tahuyaman]

no threat implied or intended. I only said I'd shoot you if you gave me a reason to. I'd shoot anybody if they gave me a reason to.

but it's good to know I will negatively impact your next vacation, and also know that you'll be on the lookout for the wrong guy. Heck... my wife thinks I need to put on a few pounds.

Once again, thanks for validating my comments. I suspect it's unintentional on your part though. Thanks just the same.

[Tahuyaman]

And you imply that those who vote third party has no right to $#@!? If you're willing to cut and run because things get tougher, you're the one who has no right to $#@!.

Also, if you take a look at our political landscape right now, it's really not that far-fetched, other than the fact that we'd need to bring them back to life.

Saying that you have no right to complain if you don't vote is just a cliché. It's an example of learning by rote.

[maineman]

And you imply that those who vote third party has no right to bitch? If you're willing to cut and run because things get tougher, you're the one who has no right to bitch.

Also, if you take a look at our political landscape right now, it's really not that far-fetched, other than the fact that we'd need to bring them back to life.

we'll have to agree to disagree. America is an entrenched two party state. One of the two major party candidates will ALWAYS win the general election. To imagine this great enlightenment and awakening of an American public that is more likely to be able to name the contestants on American Idol than they are the supreme court justices, or the members of the cabinet, or the vice-president, even, is to lose oneself in a fantasy. Feel free to do so if that makes you sleep better at night, but I chose to live in the real world. I am nearly 66 years old. I have served my country long and well. If YOU want to take it upon yourself to pull the eyes- and the minds - of the vast majority of Americans away from their TV sets, and their cell phones and EDUCATE them to the point where they would even begin to understand what a third party vote could mean, have at it. I applaud your efforts in advance.

[maineman]

And you imply that those who vote third party has no right to bitch? If you're willing to cut and run because things get tougher, you're the one who has no right to bitch.

Also, if you take a look at our political landscape right now, it's really not that far-fetched, other than the fact that we'd need to bring them back to life.

and you may infer that I said that about voters for third party candidates, but I certainly did not imply it

[Chris]

yawn....

Hey Chris.... don't vote if you don't want to. I could personally give a shit either way.


Good, thanks, because obviously you have no good argument here, just an opinion.

[Chris]

Doing your civic duty does not require an argument.

You let others decide the direction of the country which means you have no right to complain now.

That you think you decide anything is laughable.

[Chris]

get a room. he like young boys.

Let's watch the insulting innuendo. Discuss topic please.

[suds00]

we should elect the most capable person

[maineman]

Good, thanks, because obviously you have no good argument here, just an opinion.

can you imagine what sort of president we would get if, say, only 10% of eligible voters took the time to vote? What if the other 90% absolutely detested the choice that 51% of 10% made for them?

[Chris]

can you imagine what sort of president we would get if, say, only 10% of eligible voters took the time to vote? What if the other 90% absolutely detested the choice that 51% of 10% made for them?

We probably wouldn't have one if that any got wise to the sham.

[maineman]

We probably wouldn't have one if that any got wise to the sham.

what sham? people freely would chose not to vote. it's their right, isn't it? If everybody exercised their right NOT to vote, then the few that decided TO vote would pick all the winners.

[Chris]

what sham? people freely would chose not to vote. it's their right, isn't it? If everybody exercised their right NOT to vote, then the few that decided TO vote would pick all the winners.

It would mean 90% of the people no longer believed in the system. The curtain would have been lifted.

[Tahuyaman]

No matter how some my insult me, I refuse to compromise basic principles to vote for a candidate I believe is going to cause harm to the country.

I do not have a duty to help tear down the principles this nation was founded on.

[maineman]

It would mean 90% of the people no longer believed in the system. The curtain would have been lifted.

and what do you imagine would happen next?

[maineman]

No matter how some my insult me, I refuse to compromise basic principles to vote for a candidate I believe is going to cause harm to the country.

I do not have a duty to help tear down the principles this nation was founded on.

again... I have absolutely no problem with you not voting. what i have a problem with is you bitching about the result of an election you did not chose to participate in. Vote, and then bitch that the guy you voted for was not elected...and I'll laugh and say, tough shit.... that's what happens in elections.... your side doesn't always win - mu side doesn't always win. DON'T vote and then bitch about the result and I snicker at what a loser you are and move on. If you don't vote, you have ZERO right to legitimately bitch about the outcome.

[Tahuyaman]

Maineman just doesn't get it.

[maineman]

:yawn:

[Subdermal]

can you imagine what sort of president we would get if, say, only 10% of eligible voters took the time to vote? What if the other 90% absolutely detested the choice that 51% of 10% made for them?

Probably the same sort of president we get when a percentage of non-eligible voters voting.

[Chris]

and what do you imagine would happen next?

Reboot.

[maineman]

Reboot.
cute... but practically, what does that really look like?

[maineman]

Probably the same sort of president we get when a percentage of non-eligible voters voting.

do you have ANY evidence whatsoever that non-eligible voters have changed the outcome of ANY election in the USA?

[Tahuyaman]

Maineman has a problem with people disagreeing with him. What's up with that?

[maineman]

Maineman has a problem with people disagreeing with him. What's up with that?

I don't have a problem with that at all. If you disagree with me, post facts that will disprove what I have stated. If not, just step aside and let the adults talk.

[Chris]

cute... but practically, what does that really look like?

Recognize this?

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

[maineman]

Recognize this?

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

I do.... but it still doesn't answer my question.

[Chris]

I do.... but it still doesn't answer my question.

Well, it did. More, I don't have a crystal ball.

[Dr. Who]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I learned at an early age the Compromise isn't a bad thing, because I like most Adults, know that no one ever gets everything they want all the time.

Only Children think like that.
Compromise in voting generally means that one or the other of the candidates remotely represents your beliefs. If neither represents anything that you could possibly support, then voting for either is essentially stabbing yourself in the back.

[Dr. Who]

Again: even if your approach the voting booth with the belief that neither of the two candidates is worth the powder to blow them to hell... but you can discern that one is the lesser of two evils.... if your chose not to vote for either the lesser or the grater of two evils, you have ZERO right to bitch if the GREATER of two evils is elected.

In 2000, five thousand granola crunching greenies in New Hampshire voted for Ralph Nader.... because they couldn't bring themselves to vote for either Gore or Bush....

Gore, the guy who produced "An Inconvenient Truth" and was certainly sympathetic to the green party issues versus Bush, an oil man who could have given a rat's ass about the environment. Their votes for Nader put Bush in the White House. I would actually piss on the graves of greenies from New Hampshire if I ever found myself anywhere in that state other than the tax free liquor store. What a bunch of principled idiots!
What happens when neither, for whatever reason is palatable? What if you believe that the front runner for what might be your choice is little more than a criminal, and the alternative represents everything that you hate. Is there really a choice there?

[Dr. Who]

again... imo, it is a wasted vote. In fact, it can be a vote that runs counter to your overall world view. Case in point: New Hampshire in 2000. Green Party voters in that state gave their state's electoral college votes to Bush by voting for Nader. Nader never had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the White House, but by voting for him, they put an anti-environmental oil man in office. Well played. I'm sure they sleep well ... even when they'll be running their air conditioners in November any year now.
Does that mean you should not vote your conscience because your candidate can't win? Doesn't that really mean that there are not enough choices and people are asking for the opportunity for choice, in spite of the fact that the Dem and Rep machines don't want any competition?

[kilgram]

can you imagine what sort of president we would get if, say, only 10% of eligible voters took the time to vote? What if the other 90% absolutely detested the choice that 51% of 10% made for them?
Nothing would happen. If nobody voted. It would not change anything. They would find any excuses to justify anything to stay in power.

By the way, in USA has a high rate of abstention, I believe it is over 50%.

[kilgram]

What happens when neither, for whatever reason is palatable? What if you believe that the front runner for what might be your choice is little more than a criminal, and the alternative represents everything that you hate. Is there really a choice there?
You should vote the one that your conscience dictates. Whatever the opportunities to win.

For example, this year in Spanish elections I voted for a party that was closer to my ideology. This year I had two choices (2 parties that are close to my ideology). I chose one of them, discarding the other one because of its past. A past with more dark than light parts.

However, the party that I voted has become a main player in Spanish politics. And I am happy. It can change many things.

With the time, if people don't waste their vote with the stupid belief of "useful vote" (it means voting or Democrat or Republican like supporting a Footbal team instead of considering the politics more seriously) a lot of things may change.

[Mac-7]

What happens when neither, for whatever reason is palatable? What if you believe that the front runner for what might be your choice is little more than a criminal, and the alternative represents everything that you hate. Is there really a choice there?

The libs on this board who claim there is no difference between Hillary and a republican simply do not know what they are saying

To a conservative like myself there is plenty of reasons to prefer even my
Least favorite republican to her

What the lefty leaning libs mean is that they like Hillary too much to vote for the republican but are still embarrassed to be seen voting for her either

Maybe they will vote for Hillary but refuse to admit it

[Chris]

The libs on this board who claim there is no difference between Hillary and a republican simply do not know what they are saying

To a conservative like myself there is plenty of reasons to prefer even my
Least favorite republican to her

What the lefty leaning libs mean is that they like Hillary too much to vote for the republican but are still embarrassed to be seen voting for her either

Maybe they will vote for Hillary but refuse to admit it

If there was a difference you would have articulated it by now. Fail.

[Chris]

You should vote the one that your conscience dictates. Whatever the opportunities to win.

For example, this year in Spanish elections I voted for a party that was closer to my ideology. This year I had two choices (2 parties that are close to my ideology). I chose one of them, discarding the other one because of its past. A past with more dark than light parts.

However, the party that I voted has become a main player in Spanish politics. And I am happy. It can change many things.

With the time, if people don't waste their vote with the stupid belief of "useful vote" (it means voting or Democrat or Republican like supporting a Footbal team instead of considering the politics more seriously) a lot of things may change.

And if your conscience dictates do not vote and thereby sanction the system?

[Mac-7]

If there was a difference you would have articulated it by now. Fail.

A difference between Hillary and which republican?

Pick one and I'll tell you

[Mac-7]

And if your conscience dictates do not vote and thereby sanction the system?

That conscience needs to see a good shrink

[Chris]

A difference between Hillary and which republican?

Pick one and I'll tell you

You haven't so far why would anyone expect anything different.

[kilgram]

And if your conscience dictates do not vote and thereby sanction the system?

Obviously I said vote according to your conscience. That includes not voting.

[Mac-7]

You haven't so far why would anyone expect anything different.

The republican field are individuals

I know you don't vote so you have difficulty making decisions

but pick one repub and I'll try to accommodate you

[Chris]

The republican field are individuals

I know you don't vote so you have difficulty making decisions

but pick one repub and I'll try to accommodate you

Cite one that promises to reduce government to its constitutional bounds.

[Mac-7]

Cite one that promises to reduce government to its constitutional bounds.

I asked you first

You cite one and we can compare them to Hillary

[Chris]

I asked you first

You cite one and we can compare them to Hillary

Told ya so.

[Mac-7]

Told ya so.

Ok

Tell me what's so great about the Nobody that you are not voting for

Your fantasy candidate is perfect because he does not exist

[Chris]

Ok

Tell me what's so great about the Nobody that you are not voting for

Your fantasy candidate is perfect because he does not exist

Nobody is for less government.

Trump and Clinton are for more.

Therefore, I vote for nobody.

[Mac-7]

Nobody is for less government.

Nobody never got elected either

[Chris]

Nobody never got elected either

http://snag.gy/nMqWd.jpg

[Mac-7]

Nobody is for less government.

Trump and Clinton are for more.

Therefore, I vote for nobody.

The Washington establishment which includes Hillary are for more government to be paid for by borrowing and increasing the national debt

But trump is not part of that group

We will have to query him on the budget to find put where he stands

But businessmen are used to spending less than they make so don't assume anything just because you wasn't it to be so

[Chris]

The Washington establishment which includes Hillary are for more government to be paid for by borrowing and increasing the national debt

But trump is not part of that group

We will have to query him on the budget to find put where he stands

But businessmen are used to spending less than they make so don't assume anything just because you wasn't it to be so

Baloney...


Now advocates of more government control over the economy want to redefine populism as Trumpism. I hope they don’t get away with it this time. My definition of a populist is someone who wants what is best for the poor, the middle class, and ultimately all Americans ( the Latin root of the word means the people). By definition, a populist is someone who is not working on behalf himself or herself or other special interests. Since most government officials are closely allied with special interests, this leaves out most government officials.

Donald Trump is clearly not a populist. When asked why he had praised the Clintons in the past, before bashing them now, he replied that as a successful businessman he had sought to befriend all politicians, because they controlled his fate as a real estate developer. This is the essence of crony capitalism, not populism.

@ https://mises.org/blog/what-populism-and-isnt

[Chris]

I would argue both Trump and Clinton make populist appeals but both are crony capitalists.

[Tahuyaman]

I would argue both Trump and Clinton make populist appeals but both are crony capitalists.

I don't know about this crony capitalist thing. That's pretty much become a cliché. However, both Trump and Clinton both support the expansion of government authority over the citizens.

[Chris]

I don't know about this crony capitalist thing. That's pretty much become a cliché. However, both Trump and Clinton both support the expansion of government authority over the citizens.

To the benefit of the rich, the corporations. Thus, crony capitalism.

[Tahuyaman]

To the benefit of the rich, the corporations. Thus, crony capitalism.

and it has become a cliché. A country needs have successful people and corporations in order to survive. Government has a vested interest in not placing obstacles in the way.

[Chris]

and it has become a cliché. A country needs have successful people and corporations in order to survive. Government has a vested interest in not placing obstacles in the way.

But I'm not arguing that cliche. I'm a free marketer who believes the more the government leaves us alone economically the more the economy will prosper. That differs from many Republicans who believe the government should be pro-business.

Look at it this way, their are two means of getting what you want. The economics means whereby to get what you want you provide others what they value. And the political means whereby you use the government to take what you want redistributively. Corporate welfare is the latter. That's crony capitalism.

[Mac-7]

I don't know about this crony capitalist thing. That's pretty much become a cliché. However, both Trump and Clinton both support the expansion of government authority over the citizens.

Trump could be many things, some good and some bad

The question us will he be better for the country than hillary and I think he can be

But to me it's for sure that bill Clinton's coattails has nothing to offer

[Tahuyaman]

I don't believe it's wrong for government to minimize the obstacles they place in the way of corporations.

Being "pro-business" is not a bad thing by default.

[Chris]

I don't believe it's wrong for government to minimize the obstacles they place in the way of corporations.

Being "pro-business" is not a bad thing by default.

Except it takes a big powerful government to hand out all those political favors.


Just to clarify, the difference between being pro-business and pro-market is categorical. A politician who is a “friend of business” is exactly that, a guy who does favors for his friends. A politician who is pro-market is a referee who will refuse to help protect his friends (or anyone else) from competition unless the competitors have broken the rules. The friend of business supports industry-specific or even business-specific loans, grants, tariffs, or tax breaks. The pro-market referee opposes special treatment for anyone.

@ http://www.nationalreview.com/article/375309/pro-business-or-pro-market-jonah-goldberg

[Chris]

Trump is pro-business, so is Clinton.

[Tahuyaman]

Trump could be many things, some good and some bad

The question us will he be better for the country than hillary and I think he can be

But to me it's for sure that bill Clinton's coattails has nothing to offer

I believe both would be equally bad. That's why I could not vote for either. I can't find many, if any positives in either one.

[Tahuyaman]

Except it takes a big powerful government to hand out all those political favors.



@ http://www.nationalreview.com/article/375309/pro-business-or-pro-market-jonah-goldberg

theres nothing wrong with removing obstacles for all. I don not support placing obstacles in the path of the competitors to your friends.

[Mac-7]

I believe both would be equally bad. That's why I could not vote for either. I can't find many, if any positives in either one.

I wish I could assure you trump will be a great president but no one really knows.

admittedly he is an unknown quanity.

but i do know trump is no hillary clone or equally as bad.

[Cigar]

I wish I could assure you trump will be a great president but no one really knows.

admittedly he is an unknown quanity.

but i do know trump is no hillary clone or equally as bad.


I don't know about you, but I've known of Donald Trump forever a couple decades.

[Tahuyaman]

I wish I could assure you trump will be a great president but no one really knows.

admittedly he is an unknown quanity.

but i do know trump is no hillary clone or equally as bad.

I know he would be a disaster. Just as she would.

[Mac-7]

I know he would be a disaster. Just as she would.

If its trump or cruz in the white house it wont be business as usual

with hillary we just get more of the same thats been eroding America during the last 3 presidents

[decedent]

Don't be Stupid

I'll try not to let you down.

[kilgram]

Except it takes a big powerful government to hand out all those political favors.



@ http://www.nationalreview.com/article/375309/pro-business-or-pro-market-jonah-goldberg
You're pro-business. Even if you don't realize of that.

You demand exactly the same as the business owners demand. Less restrictions, less control to them, more freedom.

It is free market. It is the consequence of free market.

What do you think they do with the lobbies? Get more freedom. Get more privileges (because the other people don't get the freedom they get). But in the end, it is the same. Maybe, you would think that you would give the same for all, but you are wrong. You would benefit only one side, the corporations.

They have better resources to be more competitive than any other company, so they can adapt better and depredate any rival. So, if you create a free market environment where nobody is equal, the ones with more resources would kill the others. It is the natural order (you are a lover of it, the natural law). The stronger destroyws the weak.

[Chris]

You're pro-business. Even if you don't realize of that.

You demand exactly the same as the business owners demand. Less restrictions, less control to them, more freedom.

I'm pro-market even if you don't realize that.

Business doesn't want less, it wants more political favors.

[kilgram]

I'm pro-market even if you don't realize that.

Business doesn't want less, it wants more political favors.
It is free market. It is the consequence of free market.

What do you think they do with the lobbies? Get more freedom. Get more privileges (because the other people don't get the freedom they get). But in the end, it is the same. Maybe, you would think that you would give the same for all, but you are wrong. You would benefit only one side, the corporations.

They have better resources to be more competitive than any other company, so they can adapt better and depredate any rival. So, if you create a free market environment where nobody is equal, the ones with more resources would kill the others. It is the natural order (you are a lover of it, the natural law). The stronger destroyws the weak.

Political favours that are more freedom. Exactly what you demand.

Less taxes, less involvement of the government in their activities, less control from the government. That is what they deamand.

[Chris]

It is free market. It is the consequence of free market.

What do you think they do with the lobbies? Get more freedom. Get more privileges (because the other people don't get the freedom they get). But in the end, it is the same. Maybe, you would think that you would give the same for all, but you are wrong. You would benefit only one side, the corporations.

They have better resources to be more competitive than any other company, so they can adapt better and depredate any rival. So, if you create a free market environment where nobody is equal, the ones with more resources would kill the others. It is the natural order (you are a lover of it, the natural law). The stronger destroyws the weak.

Political favours that are more freedom. Exactly what you demand.

Less taxes, less involvement of the government in their activities, less control from the government. That is what they deamand.

It is not free market if it involves the government handing out political favors. Political favors help a few at the expense of many.

[Tahuyaman]

If its trump or cruz in the white house it wont be business as usual

with hillary we just get more of the same thats been eroding America during the last 3 presidents

I'll give you that one.

[Professor Peabody]

Trump will pound Hillary into the ground like a tent stake. Why? Because The left wing nut media can't touch him. I think the only way Hillary can win is if the Lame Stream Media attacks her opponents. As it stands the harder they hit him the more popular he gets. When Trump speaks a little truth, liberals lose their minds. I love it!

[maineman]

Trump will pound Hillary into the ground like a tent stake. Why? Because The left wing nut media can't touch him. I think the only way Hillary can win is if the Lame Stream Media attacks her opponents. As it stands the harder they hit him the more popular he gets. When Trump speaks a little truth, liberals lose their minds. I love it!

you wouldn't be interested in friendly wager, would you?

[Tahuyaman]

Trump will pound Hillary into the ground like a tent stake....

I doubt that. If the Republicans nominate Trump, millions of serious conservatives will sit out like they did the last two presidential elections.

[ThaiBoxer]

Trump will pound Hillary into the ground like a tent stake.

Trump will be lucky to win 10 states

[Professor Peabody]

you wouldn't be interested in friendly wager, would you?

I never wager on politics, too many uniformed voters. Sorry.

[Professor Peabody]

Trump will be lucky to win 10 states

Poll: 60% don't trust Hillary, 62% say she'll 'do anything' to be president (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poll-60-dont-trust-hillary-62-say-shell-do-anything-to-be-president/article/2570206)

Hillary will be lucky to get 5.

[Professor Peabody]

I doubt that. If the Republicans nominate Trump, millions of serious conservatives will sit out like they did the last two presidential elections.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbNvj7dbOTs

Donald Trump EXPLODES at Cameraman During Biloxi

Trump isn't afraid to call out the media like the mealy mouth establishment Republicans.

[Mac-7]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbNvj7dbOTs

Donald Trump EXPLODES at Cameraman During Biloxi

Trump isn't afraid to call out the media like the mealy mouth establishment Republicans.


The liberal news media wants hillary.

but increasingly the American people want trump

[Tahuyaman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbNvj7dbOTs

Donald Trump EXPLODES at Cameraman During Biloxi

Trump isn't afraid to call out the media like the mealy mouth establishment Republicans.



I'm not commenting about his calling out of he media. In fact the title of the article is dishonest on its face.

[Mac-7]

I'm not commenting about his calling out of he media. In fact the title of the article is dishonest on its face.

Trump did not "explode" and the liberal news media camerman.

but he did calmly expose his liberal media bias

[Tahuyaman]

Trump did not "explode" and the liberal news media camerman.

but he did calmly expose his liberal media bias

That's what I said. The title of the story is dishonest. He didn't explode. He just calmly called them out.

[Professor Peabody]

That's what I said. The title of the story is dishonest. He didn't explode. He just calmly called them out.

It's a youtube video.....not from some professional journalist.

[Mac-7]

It's a youtube video.....not from some professional journalist.

Maybe trump outsmarted tje lib media but my impression is that the cameramsn he was challenging works for CNN

[donttread]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWryKr-UkAA04_S.jpg


Also Don't vote stupid. Send the established Washington types packing

[Cigar]

Also Don't vote stupid. Send the established Washington types packing

... and replace them Rubio and Cruz types :laugh:

[Mac-7]

Also Don't vote stupid. Send the established Washington types packing

Not voting helps the washington establishment

[Chris]

Voting =

http://i.snag.gy/fWri8.jpg

[Mac-7]

Voting =

http://i.snag.gy/fWri8.jpg

Are you as impressed with black and white cartoons as the pretty ones in color?

[donttread]

... and replace them Rubio and Cruz types :laugh:

I prefer Paul. But in an odd way I'd like to see Sanders involved , perhaps in a cabinet post. I mean his projected deficits are fucking insane, and he is sort of a socialist. But I can't deny that he is one of the closest things to an honest politician that I have seen in my lifetime, although I believe Rand fits that bill as well.
I'd honestly like to see a coalition cabinet and congress. A little Jill Stein, a little Bernie, a little Rand . Basically I like unbought politicians.
My idea is not as far fetched as you may imagine. MEN readership includes twice the percentage of people compared to the general population who identify themselves as "very liberal " or "very conservative"
Because in the long run who doesn't want chemical free food, grass fed beef, seed that isn't patented and clean water not owned by the megacorps ?Also who wouldn't like to be just a bit less dependent upon the grid and long distance shipping of your daily stables in case?

[Truth Detector]

I prefer Paul. But in an odd way I'd like to see Sanders involved , perhaps in a cabinet post. I mean his projected deficits are $#@!ing insane, and he is sort of a socialist. But I can't deny that he is one of the closest things to an honest politician that I have seen in my lifetime, although I believe Rand fits that bill as well.
I'd honestly like to see a coalition cabinet and congress. A little Jill Stein, a little Bernie, a little Rand . Basically I like unbought politicians.
My idea is not as far fetched as you may imagine. MEN readership includes twice the percentage of people compared to the general population who identify themselves as "very liberal " or "very conservative"
Because in the long run who doesn't want chemical free food, grass fed beef, seed that isn't patented and clean water not owned by the megacorps ?Also who wouldn't like to be just a bit less dependent upon the grid and long distance shipping of your daily stables in case?

LOL; a self professed Libertarian who likes the Commie Sanders.....whoddathunkit. :biglaugh:

[Tahuyaman]

LOL; a self professed Libertarian who likes the Commie Sanders.....whoddathunkit. :biglaugh:

I have no idea what kind of mind-set can say that they like Paul, Ron or Rand, but then on the other hand declare any support for Bernie Sanders? It is completely senseless.